What is better, Optimized Wizard or Commoner? Yes, Commoner is a GOD.

[Bad Wolf]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3d/6d/33/3d6d33d7fb089d1fdfc39b70a826e171.jpg

Commoner has all the skills

Craft can make weapons and armor to kill wizards with

Wizard= no hp

handle animal can kill wizard with familoars :smallamused:

listen= wizard can't sneak up on him

my offence has no defence

[LordOfCain]

Oh no... they're slowly and sarcastically multiplying....

[Eisfalken]

Too bad Expert is better than Commoner in literally every way.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Too bad Expert is better than Commoner in literally every way.

This statement is untrue, as commoners have unique and powerful flaws. Pig shaped black holes, endless supply of chickens, or even free lycanthropy (some terms and conditions apply).

[Bad Wolf]

Too bad Expert is better than Commoner in literally every way.

you biased

Commoner beats puny expert

[GilesTheCleric]

Your build is all wrong. Let me fix it for you:


http://img07.deviantart.net/943d/i/2016/038/8/5/orion_concept_i_by_obsidiantrance-d9qkl3e.png

Commoner has all the skills

Craft can make weapons and armor to kill wizards with

Wizard= no hp

handle animal can kill wizard with familoars :smallamused::smallamused::smallamused::smallamuse d::smallamused::smallamused::smallamused::smallamu sed::smallamused: {editor: also here}

listen= wizard can't sneak up on him

my offence has no defence

There you go.

[Zanos]

Your build is all wrong. Let me fix it for you:



There you go.
There's no way that guys charisma score was built on the standard array.

[JNAProductions]

Oh no... they're slowly and sarcastically multiplying....

This made me laugh out loud. Lord Of Cain, you have the funnies.

[GilesTheCleric]

There's no way that guys charisma score was built on the standard array.

To me it seems like a perfect 10. *rimshot*

[AvatarVecna]

Commoner gets infinite followers from level 1 and onward! Wizard can't touch this Leadership cheese at any level! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbi ggrin::smallcool::smallcool::smallcool::smallcool:

[Bad Wolf]

Commoner gets infinite followers from level 1 and onward! Wizard can't touch this Leadership cheese at any level! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbi ggrin::smallcool::smallcool::smallcool::smallcool:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/bb/c9/94/bbc994088d4b1e43ec72578c317350d1.jpg

:smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

[King539]

*Bursts out laughing*

*Doesn't stop for a while*

[Rhyltran]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/bb/c9/94/bbc994088d4b1e43ec72578c317350d1.jpg

:smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

He's not topless. You're doing it wrong. ;)

[Snowbluff]

What? Why is this even...
http://i.imgur.com/IYc4mja.gif
Y'all playgrounders need Snowbluff.

[Buufreak]

But can your commoner beat the ultra supreme triple cheesetastic unbeatable... *deep breath* better than every wizard ever class known as the sorcerer?

[Virdish]

But can your commoner beat the ultra supreme triple cheesetastic unbeatable... *deep breath* better than every wizard ever class known as the sorcerer?

Commoner bury sorcerer in pile of infinite chickens.

Chickens= SORCERER END GAME.

[Bad Wolf]

But can your commoner beat the ultra supreme triple cheesetastic unbeatable... *deep breath* better than every wizard ever class known as the sorcerer?

Commoner has Handle Animal

My offence has no defense

[The Viscount]

I'm impressed with that argument.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/80/10/bc/8010bcdd234bc6e295d42d8d5e2b0321.jpg

[Venger]

It has profession to farm dirt. Any trick the wizard can do, the commoner can do by buying services from a wizard. QED.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/72/39/a7/7239a7271464c41b3e12335f78cb2901.jpg

[nyjastul69]

My Commoner has no defense!

[eggynack]

Gotta agree. The commoner can claim victory on the two most important metrics. First, on chicken production, the wizard is clearly outmatched. A flood of chickens covering the entire world has no possible defense. Second, the commoner is way better at authenticity. Wizards sit up in their towers, building mental shrines to the artificial, while commoners connect themselves to the earth, and in so doing gain a power unmatched by any other class.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Pieter_Bruegel_the_Elder_-_Hunters_in_the_Snow_%28Winter%29_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg/1280px-Pieter_Bruegel_the_Elder_-_Hunters_in_the_Snow_%28Winter%29_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

[Venger]

Wizards cannot produce an equivalent amount of chickens easily without dipping commoner:
Wizard: 0
Commoner: infinity

[Inevitability]

I'm very interested in Chulehthingy's eventual response to this. :smalltongue:

[GilesTheCleric]

But Wizards are basically commoners with fancy hats. Aren't they one and the same?

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_1401_zps571ekvik.jpg
Clearly a wizard is just a commoner with a pet, book, and fancy hat.

[Afgncaap5]

Wizards cannot produce an equivalent amount of chickens easily without dipping commoner:
Wizard: 0
Commoner: infinity

Actually, Wizards are beaten even on that front. To produce the chickens, one must be a Commoner from level 1. A wizard dipping Commoner has already permanently lost their chance to keep up with the chicken production level curve.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Voice in my head A: What the hell is happening right now?

Voice in my head B: I don't know... but I hate it.

[AvatarVecna]

Voice in my head A: What the hell is happening right now?

Voice in my head B: I don't know... but I hate it.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/94/a4/d1/94a4d1bcf06158f0bf4c1605c40f455b.jpg

[Technetium43]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/94/a4/d1/94a4d1bcf06158f0bf4c1605c40f455b.jpg

I greatly enjoy this picture, thank you for allowing it to enter my brainmeats.

[Mordaedil]

The art in this thread is making it all worth it.

I am convinced of the commoner might and my next PC is going to be a commoner.

[Coretron03]

This is best thread ever. All we need now are some partially charged wands of enhance chicken and we are set! My long running forumn jokes have no defense.

[John Longarrow]

But Wizards are basically commoners with fancy hats. Aren't they one and the same?

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_1401_zps571ekvik.jpg
Clearly a wizard is just a commoner with a pet, book, and fancy hat.

Sorry your argument is moot as your image is hat-less. Your foul foul are also devoid of the proper level of chicken.

Now for real power, seek the gnome who has gone naked save their slathering of BBQ sauce.

How ever wizards CAN produce chicken! It is canon!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZeVYq32x4Ng/Td5KObGMDQI/AAAAAAAAHBI/5akRs3Ae-2g/s1600/Presto+conjuration+%2528chicken%2529.jpg

[Chulehdoido]

HIGH CHARISMA!!!!!

My offensive has no defense!!
LOL!
http://img04.deviantart.net/7251/i/2010/177/5/0/medieval_commoner_by_cerkuenik.jpg

[Hamste]

Wizards cannot produce an equivalent amount of chickens easily without dipping commoner:
Wizard: 0
Commoner: infinity

Poor wizard has to gate solars and get them to summon celestial chickens if they want a ridiculous number of chickens. Commoners just get that at level one. How will my wizard ever be the next Colonel Sanders if the commoners can out produce him.

[Virdish]

Commoner quickdraw every chicken ever make infinite money selling infinite chicken. Buy all sorcerers ever. Buy all wizards ever. Beat game. Commoner have all money ever.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Oh God the flashbacks. :smallbiggrin:

By way of explanation to those scratching their heads, I believe I should leave a link to this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414050-Who-is-better-Optimized-Wizard-or-Optimized-Sorcerer-Yes-Sorcerer-is-a-GOD).

[lylsyly]

I got drunk last night for the first time in years, woke up hung over like a b....
got online and this was the first thread I looked at...

I have been laughing so d... hard that I forgot how crappy I feel...

Thanks folks.

[AvatarVecna]

I greatly enjoy this picture, thank you for allowing it to enter my brainmeats.

Glad to hear that I brought you some joy. :smallsmile:

[Snowbluff]

Oh God the flashbacks. :smallbiggrin:

By way of explanation to those scratching their heads, I believe I should leave a link to this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414050-Who-is-better-Optimized-Wizard-or-Optimized-Sorcerer-Yes-Sorcerer-is-a-GOD).
Yeah I was there. :l

[ShurikVch]

Wizards cannot produce an equivalent amount of chickens easily without dipping commoner:
Wizard: 0
Commoner: infinityBut Wizard can make infinite snakes!
And snakes are tastes like chicken!

[Bad Wolf]

Commoner also has Jump

Wizard had no skills :smallamused::smallamused::smallamused:

[Inevitability]

Wizard versus commoner: wizard can never, ever, kill commoner!

How? It's simple...

CORPSE FLAW! Now commoner dead, and wizard can't kill him! Their offense has no defense!

Also, the commoner has extra feats.

[Chulehdoido]

Commoner weapon has no defense!! Wizards cant scape!

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbi ggrin::smallbiggrin:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wfxin4y8Tlc/hqdefault.jpg

[Bad Wolf]

Wizard versus commoner: wizard can never, ever, kill commoner!

How? It's simple...

CORPSE FLAW! Now commoner dead, and wizard can't kill him! Their offense has no defense!

Also, the commoner has extra feats.

Let's see wizard defence for this :smallamused:

[Chulehdoido]

Let's see wizard defence for this :smallamused:
Commoner attack has no defense
Sorry.

[GilesTheCleric]

Sorry your argument is moot as your image is hat-less. Your foul foul are also devoid of the proper level of chicken.

Now for real power, seek the gnome who has gone naked save their slathering of BBQ sauce.

How ever wizards CAN produce chicken! It is canon!

Clearly your terrible Wizard spot check has failed you. For punishment, I have removed your familiar.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_1678_zpshwsrocqz.jpg
Sad wizard is sad.

[Bad Wolf]

Sorry your argument is moot as your image is hat-less. Your foul foul are also devoid of the proper level of chicken.

Now for real power, seek the gnome who has gone naked save their slathering of BBQ sauce.

How ever wizards CAN produce chicken! It is canon!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZeVYq32x4Ng/Td5KObGMDQI/AAAAAAAAHBI/5akRs3Ae-2g/s1600/Presto+conjuration+%2528chicken%2529.jpg


No they can't :)

Wizards are weak

Commoners are suprime

My offence has no defence

[Venger]

Clearly your terrible Wizard spot check has failed you. For punishment, I have removed your familiar.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_1678_zpshwsrocqz.jpg
Sad wizard is sad.

Um, try again. He is wearing a hat. Clearly that is a commoner.

Player talks to his message board. Unsatisfied with his character. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Board says, "Treatment is simple. Try roleplaying Pagliacci instead. That should pick you up." Player bursts into tears. Says, "But...I am roleplaying Pagliacci.”

[GilesTheCleric]

Um, try again. He is wearing a hat. Clearly that is a commoner.

Are you trying to argue that commoners are allowed to wear silly hats? I'm pretty sure that RAW, only wizards are allowed.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_5158_zpsxhgvok0r.jpg
It's a regular hat, not a silly one. Clearly a hat perfectly suited for a commoner.http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_4991_zpsgwbgidoe.jpg

[The Viscount]

Sorry your argument is moot as your image is hat-less. Your foul foul are also devoid of the proper level of chicken.

Now for real power, seek the gnome who has gone naked save their slathering of BBQ sauce.

How ever wizards CAN produce chicken! It is canon!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZeVYq32x4Ng/Td5KObGMDQI/AAAAAAAAHBI/5akRs3Ae-2g/s1600/Presto+conjuration+%2528chicken%2529.jpg


That's only one chicken. Commoner can make infinite chickens, it's so powerful it's broken!

Commoner can enter survivor after only 1 level, wizard would have to wait until 5 levels.
http://siftingthepast.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/siftingthepast_Young-Peasant-Woman-Holding-a-Wine-Flask_Giacomo-Ceruti_.jpg

[John Longarrow]

Clearly your terrible Wizard spot check has failed you. For punishment, I have removed your familiar.

And clearly that is no gnome. Not only is that not a gnome, he's wearing cloths instead of a thick layer of BBQ sauce ment to seal in his succulent flavor. He also is without a chicken so cannot be all that powerful.

[ben-zayb]

But Wizard can make infinite snakes!
And snakes are tastes like chicken!
Infanate snake triks are forbidden!
Commonors hav arbertary large night infinite chickens!

[stanprollyright]

The commoner can easily destroy any wizard by crossing into a theoretical plane of existence known only as "the IRL" and throwing away the wizard's character sheet.

[ShurikVch]

Infanate snake triks are forbidden!
Commonors hav arbertary large night infinite chickens! :smallconfused: How? It's the same trick as with chickens - just with snakes...

[GilesTheCleric]

Which one is the commoner? Which is the wizard? Which is just a sheep? You'll never be able to tell, because the commoner's sheep-fu is too powerful for the wizard!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_2403_zps5l9v7hri.jpg

[SirKazum]

Which one is the commoner? Which is the wizard? Which is just a sheep? You'll never be able to tell, because the commoner's sheep-fu is too powerful for the wizard!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_2403_zps5l9v7hri.jpg

Since most sheep in the world are the result of mages using a 4-mana polymorph to turn people into 1/1 sheep, clearly the guy in the hat is a mage.

oops, wrong game :smalltongue:

[Venger]

Since most sheep in the world are the result of mages using a 4-mana polymorph to turn people into 1/1 sheep, clearly the guy in the hat is a mage.

oops, wrong game :smalltongue:

Ok but how much grain will you trade for a sheep?

[Flickerdart]

Ok but how much grain will you trade for a sheep?

3 civilian factories.

[Venger]

3 civilian factories.
Which a commoner can work in 18 hours a day through the class exclusive flaw. Wizards can't they need 8 hours for spells.
Commoner:yes
Wizard:no

[GilesTheCleric]

Which a commoner can work in 18 hours a day through the class exclusive flaw. Wizards can't they need 8 hours for spells.
Commoner:yes
Wizard:no

Set em up, and knock 'em down!
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_5499_zpshsxj49oy.jpg

[Venger]

Just say no when wizards try to tempt you with their decadent potions

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/17/f8/ce/17f8ce089dfb2a11a66bf3c8fade5316.jpg

[Vizzerdrix]

But Wizards are basically commoners with fancy hats. Aren't they one and the same?

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DSC_1401_zps571ekvik.jpg
Clearly a wizard is just a commoner with a pet, book, and fancy hat.

FOOL! Wizards have to waste time and resources protecting a silly book. Wizards have to waste skill points on concentration AND spellcraft. When was the last time anyone bothered to use those? Never. Thats when. They are THE biggest skill point sinks in the game.

Now the commoner isint tied down to a stupid book that he has to waste money and time on. The commoner can also spend his skill points however they like without having to take junky tax skills.

[Venger]

FOOL! Wizards have to waste time and resources protecting a silly book. Wizards have to waste skill points on concentration AND spellcraft. When was the last time anyone bothered to use those? Never. Thats when. They are THE biggest skill point sinks in the game.

Now the commoner isint tied down to a stupid book that he has to waste money and time on. The commoner can also spend his skill points however they like without having to take junky tax skills.

They can invest their skills in important things like handle animal to wrangle animals such as pigs and chickens. Those aren't even on wizard's summon list!

[Inevitability]

See this guy? He's proficient in one weapon, and he's proud of it.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/bc/24/02/bc240297605bbe3cfe6ffb627b7d26e4.jpg

[Vizzerdrix]

They can invest their skills in important things like handle animal to wrangle animals such as pigs and chickens. Those aren't even on wizard's summon list!

It gets even more amazing. Skurids and rust monsters ase BOTH easily tameable, and readily available. With a half decent skill check any commoner is only moments away from having an army of metal eating, str damaging critters. And that is before you get into the rust monster variants. Also, if a skurid gets to 3 int, it can take class levels. Commoners CAN use handle animal to train ninja assassin shadow squirrels. At level 1.

[stanprollyright]

What is better? Greater Summon Chicken, which lets you summon as many chickens as you want? Or Summon Greater Chicken, wherein you summon one chicken that can cast Shapechange as a 20th level druid, while retaining the appearance of a chicken?

[Vizzerdrix]

Both have their uses but for ultimate power you want storm of the clucking furry. It is 3.0 but wasnt ever updated. It is a bit costly, but well worth setting up, especially if you can get a chicken coop built on one of the more exotic plains like posative or negative energy so the chickens take on elements of that plain.

Nothing is as terrafying as seeing a storm of posative energy chickens heal up one side while making the other explode.

[Venger]

Both have their uses but for ultimate power you want storm of the clucking furry. It is 3.0 but wasnt ever updated. It is a bit costly, but well worth setting up, especially if you can get a chicken coop built on one of the more exotic plains like posative or negative energy so the chickens take on elements of that plain.

Nothing is as terrafying as seeing a storm of posative energy chickens heal up one side while making the other explode.

And the commoner can invest in professoon (chef) to gather herbs and spices to appease\season these chickens. This is possible because it does not have to waste the skill points in frippery like knowledge. Poor wizard. Sad.

[Swaoeaeieu]

so now we are at this point? Where we make fun of the guy?
didnt think i would see mockery on this level on the playground

[Barstro]

so now we are at this point? Where we make fun of the guy?
didnt think i would see mockery on this level on the playground

1) How was that not in blue?
2) He was banned. Can we really make fun of a guy who cannot see it? It's a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark. (Nelson)
3) All posts should end correctly...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/12/15/240FC1BD00000578-2874364-Mr_April_shirtless_farmer_Conor_Walsh_uses_a_baby_ goat_as_the_pe-a-1_1418655798726.jpg

[Swaoeaeieu]

1) How was that not in blue?
2) He was banned. Can we really make fun of a guy who cannot see it? It's a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark. (Nelson)
3) All posts should end correctly...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/12/15/240FC1BD00000578-2874364-Mr_April_shirtless_farmer_Conor_Walsh_uses_a_baby_ goat_as_the_pe-a-1_1418655798726.jpg

sorry for the miscomunication. what i meant to say was: I like mocking someone as much as the next guy. But this doesnt feel like joking around. Since he is banned and unable to read it, it just feels mean instead of funny.
But hey thats just my vieuw, and he is back anyway, so ill just go there for my fun :P

[Barstro]

he is back anyway

Hmm. That changes my view on the fun poking. Doesn't change my view on commoners.

https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/gkAKtaF6A-A7GNWEtlc0dFcJMpk/fit-in/2048xorig/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2014/12/17/069/n/1922398/4699eaedac51e39c_russell_tovey_shirtless_mud/i/covered-mud.jpg

[Swaoeaeieu]

Hmm. That changes my view on the fun poking. Doesn't change my view on commoners.

https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/gkAKtaF6A-A7GNWEtlc0dFcJMpk/fit-in/2048xorig/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2014/12/17/069/n/1922398/4699eaedac51e39c_russell_tovey_shirtless_mud/i/covered-mud.jpg

and now his newest thread is gone again. Time for you to return to your previous view i guess

[Tohsaka Rin]

Except that he just made another new account, and thread, literally starting off where the last one ended, in reply to another poster.

So, about commoners... Let's put one in a pit with a cat, and see who comes out on top.

EDIT: Aaaand it's gone. Mods are on top form today, best all behave.

So about that pit...

[Swaoeaeieu]

Except that he just made another new account, and thread, literally starting off where the last one ended, in reply to another poster.



...

sigh, i guess we will just keep going then

[AvatarVecna]

...

sigh, i guess we will just keep going then

Your argument is that it's not fair to mock him where he can't see it. Are you aware that you don't need an account to view the GitP forum? You can just like, browse and ****. He can see it just fine.

And unlike most banned people, he can even comment if he wants. In fact, he has commented in this thread! Via one of his many banned accounts.

But enough discussion of banned posters, let's get back to the important things: how awesome commoners are.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Listen, I just want my pit battle to gamble on practice uh, TO on.

Yeah... That'll work.

[Swaoeaeieu]

oh i know he could see it if he so chooses. Still makes me think its mean spirited to do so.

but yes commoners. Is it true what i heard? You need a minimum of epic level to survive an encounter with one?

[John Longarrow]

But the commoner can give the wizard chickens as familiars, cook familiars, eat familiars and wizard is the suffering!

My attack has not common sense!

[OldTrees1]

1) How was that not in blue?
2) He was banned. Can we really make fun of a guy who cannot see it? It's a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark. (Nelson)
3) All posts should end correctly...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/12/15/240FC1BD00000578-2874364-Mr_April_shirtless_farmer_Conor_Walsh_uses_a_baby_ goat_as_the_pe-a-1_1418655798726.jpg

Technically mocking a banned poster is against the forum rules.


1)
Are threads mocking banned posters against the rules?

2)
Is publicly accusing a member of being a banned poster against the rules?

Yes, to both of those. If you suspect a user is a returned banned poster please contact a mod or report the thread.

[Jay R]

Of course. When great cataclysms occur, and all warriors, wizards, and most of humanity are destroyed, and all that's left of civilization are a few ruins, in and amongst those ruins, there will be commoners, farming.

The old man in The Magnificent Seven said, "Only the farmers have won. They remain forever. They are like the land itself. You helped rid them of Calvera, the way a strong wind helps rid them of locusts. You're like the wind - blowing over the land and... passing on. Vaya con dios."

[Kelb_Panthera]

so now we are at this point? Where we make fun of the guy?
didnt think i would see mockery on this level on the playground

Eh, he certainly inspired this thread but I wouldn't really call it mockery directed at him. Even if it was, either he wouldn't get it or he'd be laughing along with everyone since he was either dense as lead or a troll. His precious fee fees are safe.

[stanprollyright]

Eh, he certainly inspired this thread but I wouldn't really call it mockery directed at him. Even if it was, either he wouldn't get it or he'd be laughing along with everyone

I think it's option B...


HIGH CHARISMA!!!!!

My offensive has no defense!!
LOL!

Yeah, he doesn't seem offended at all. Carry on.

[JNAProductions]

Sorcerer > Commoner > Abyss > Wizards

Please, no one respond any further to this. This is Lord Drako almost assuredly, and he is not worth your time.

As a side note, has anyone here actually PLAYED a commoner?

[Inevitability]

Please, no one respond any further to this. This is Lord Drako almost assuredly, and he is not worth your time.

You're right on both accounts.


As a side note, has anyone here actually PLAYED a commoner?

No, though I'd jump at the chance. Sadly no DM allows such OP characters...

[ZamielVanWeber]

If survivor was a good springboard into something then commoner would have a use beyond commoner flaws. As is not so much.

[Inevitability]

If survivor was a good springboard into something then commoner would have a use beyond commoner flaws. As is not so much.

Survivor has its uses on a 'roll to rock' character. Such a build's premise is to take Roll With It as often as possible, thereby gaining terribly high amounts of DR. That said, entering it with commoner is still bad.

A dragonborn half-elf commoner 1/survivor 5/half-elf paragon 1/human paragon 2 with two flaws would have DR 12/-.

That said, by just reshuffling the levels into fighter 1/half-elf paragon 1/human paragon 1/survivor 5/human paragon +1, one can have DR 14/-.

Technically, the first build enjoys a slight advantage in DR at level 6 and 7, but afterwards it's clearly weaker.


I could see it being viable in E6, though. Direct weapon damage is more common there and the build is able to indefinitely advance its main trick with the system's bonus feats. Not to mention that without early entry as a commoner, survivor can't be completed.

[JNAProductions]

Survivor has its uses on a 'roll to rock' character. Such a build's premise is to take Roll With It as often as possible, thereby gaining terribly high amounts of DR. That said, entering it with commoner is still bad.

A dragonborn half-elf commoner 1/survivor 5/half-elf paragon 1/human paragon 2 with two flaws would have DR 12/-.

That said, by just reshuffling the levels into fighter 1/half-elf paragon 1/human paragon 1/survivor 5/human paragon +1, one can have DR 14/-.

Technically, the first build enjoys a slight advantage in DR at level 6 and 7, but afterwards it's clearly weaker.


I could see it being viable in E6, though. Direct weapon damage is more common there and the build is able to indefinitely advance its main trick with the system's bonus feats. Not to mention that without early entry as a commoner, survivor can't be completed.

I am intrigued. More details, please?

[investitureOrth]

Commoner attack has no defense!

[ZamielVanWeber]

I considered Roll With It builds before, but the rate of gain always left me meh. It's on the shelf with Sir Vile Feats as a thing to try in a very low OP game.

[John Longarrow]

Chicken infested commoner can take levels in cooking! Endless chickens = endless supply of tasty chicken meals! No arcane caster an match the deep fried goodness which is the ultimate commoner victory! :smallcool:

[ben-zayb]

As a side note, has anyone here actually PLAYED a commoner?
There was an all-commoner PbP game before, where I rolled a dragonborn chef commoner (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html?id=396984), but the game died an early death as most PbPs do.

[John Longarrow]

Downside of playing a Dragonborn of Bahamut is the requirement to go forth and fight evil dragons. Not something that would work well with a commoner, unless you found an evil dragon that was allergic to chicken that is. :smallsmile:

[Ieagleroar]

Just don't cook the chicken before the dragon eats it. Salmonella, the chicken's deadliest power.

[John Longarrow]

I forgot about Salmonella! Fort save required, arcane casters bane! Once more a reason commoner is better than those pesky spell casters, Commoner knows how to handle chicken!

[Vizzerdrix]

Downside of playing a Dragonborn of Bahamut is the requirement to go forth and fight evil dragons. Not something that would work well with a commoner, unless you found an evil dragon that was allergic to chicken that is. :smallsmile:

Meh. Their is a few builds that can wreck dragons in the commoner handbook.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Please, no one respond any further to this. This is Lord Drako almost assuredly, and he is not worth your time.

Definitely the case. Post and -user- deleted.


As a side note, has anyone here actually PLAYED a commoner?

Haven't yet had that opportunity. Got a player that might bite if I pitched that game idea but only one so it's still a no-go for now. I'd like to give it a shot though.

[Echch]

As a side note, has anyone here actually PLAYED a commoner?

Yes. For two sessions, though it was multiclassed (had 1 Level in Aristrocrat), reason being that it was an epic level campaign and Commoner seemed to only have 20 levels. I got kicked because I was constantly outshining the rest of the party and stumping the DM, one-shoting his BBEG.

...No, I'm serious. I had the strongest character in the party on proper Epic-Level-WBL-usage and clever feat-selection alone after being banned from manifesters, fullcasters, initiators and factotums.
Some people just shouldn't DM epic campaigns, people.

[MageDisjunction]

Definitely the case. Post and -user- deleted.



Haven't yet had that opportunity. Got a player that might bite if I pitched that game idea but only one so it's still a no-go for now. I'd like to give it a shot though.


Black Scar attack has no defense. =)

[JNAProductions]

Black Scar attack has no defense. =)

Lord Drako again. Please ignore.

So how'd the epic-level campaign go?

[MageDisjunction]

Lord Drako again. Please ignore.

So how'd the epic-level campaign go?
Today, running amazing. :smallbiggrin:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Lord Drako again. Please ignore.

Possibly. Can't be certain... Yet.


So how'd the epic-level campaign go?

Not well, given that he was banned for simple WBL-omancy. It's tough to stick to low level tropes in the 17-20 range, nevermind epic and it seems to me that this is what that DM was probably trying to do.

[AvatarVecna]

Possibly. Can't be certain... Yet.

Exhibit A. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510026-Sorcerer-King-Attack!-Wizard-Humiliation)

Case closed.

[Zanos]

Possibly. Can't be certain... Yet.
I'm fairly sure.
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510026-Sorcerer-King-Attack!-Wizard-Humiliation)

Not well, given that he was banned for simple WBL-omancy. It's tough to stick to low level tropes in the 17-20 range, nevermind epic and it seems to me that this is what that DM was probably trying to do.
New or simply ignorant DMs often grossly misunderstand what epic is. "Invading hell and killing demons? Geez, the PCs are gonna have to be epic for this adventure!" Not realizing that low double digit PCs are perfectly capable of having that adventure. Assuming they don't run into some of the rare and more powerful demon types.

EDIT:Damn, Vecna'd.

[MageDisjunction]

Possibly. Can't be certain... Yet.



Not well, given that he was banned for simple WBL-omancy. It's tough to stick to low level tropes in the 17-20 range, nevermind epic and it seems to me that this is what that DM was probably trying to do.

A True Lawful Evil King, Kills, Dominate and take Wizards golds.

But, for stop crying, i am rework knowstones/Drakehelm cost. (Nothing will change).
He need only, Greater Arcane Fusion to kill everyone.
Dont forgot, Miracle/Supernatural Wish/Rings of Theurgy say hellow =)

[Kelb_Panthera]

Well then. Not the first time I've been wrong.

I hear what you're saying zanos. Very true.

[MageDisjunction]

Supernatural Wish/Miracle = Acess to level 8 or lower
Rings of Theurgy + Instant summon = Acess to every spell
Greater Wyrm Dragon pet = Free spells
Knowstones/Drakehelm = I win.

[Inevitability]

Drako, could you at least limit your obnoxiousness to your own thread? Wouldn't want this one to go off-topic, would we? :smallsmile:

[Inevitability]

I am intrigued. More details, please?

There isn't really much to the build. Roll With It is a feat that grants DR 2/- stacking with all other DR, and requires only 20 constitution (gotten by putting an 18 in constitution and getting dragonborned) and Toughness. Survivor is notable for also granting stacking DR, and the various paragon levels are there for the extra feats they give.

I just realized the fighter level at the beginning of the second build can't actually grant an extra Roll With It, as Toughness isn't on the fighter bonus feat list. It can therefore be replaced by any class that grants +2 fortitude and no other saves.

A variant build had lots of psychic warrior levels, allowing it to manifest Immovability for a base DR of 15/-. I think I managed to exceed the 30 on that one.


The reason I said E6 is better for this kind of build is that its primary means of advancement (more iterations of Roll With It) remains available in E6, whereas almost any other kind of character is dependent on class levels: forever unavailable in E6's low-level world. Not to mention that only in E6 there's any real reason to go commoner --> survivor.

[Zanos]

Toughness isn't on the fighter bonus feat list.
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starpolar/images/c/c6/What_am_i_reading.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150607160438
Perhaps WotC was trying to protect fighters from poor feat choices.

[Inevitability]

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starpolar/images/c/c6/What_am_i_reading.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150607160438
Perhaps WotC was trying to protect fighters from poor feat choices.

You laugh, but it may actually be true. After all, the significantly better Improved Toughness? That one is on the list.

[Coretron03]

I've compiled the lessons from this thread: That Commoners are op, chickens>wizards, lord drako will be in every thread that mentions wizards and Zanos being goddamn hilarious.

[John Longarrow]

Course commoner>arcane caster, but you can put in just wizard and most people will get it. :D

Commoners rule the world! At least according to the 1256 census of Greyhawk...

[Vizzerdrix]

Can giants be commoners? Could they be lined up and used as a transport method by handing smaller people back and fourth?

[The Viscount]

Giants advance by character class, so they definitely can.

Imagine the pig wielded by one of them with pig-bonded!

[Coidzor]

Ok, what's this about infinite snakes? :smallconfused:


I forgot about Salmonella! Fort save required, arcane casters bane! Once more a reason commoner is better than those pesky spell casters, Commoner knows how to handle chicken!

I wonder...

Is Salmonella's effectiveness altered based upon whether a creature normally, naturally has it in their gut bacteria?

I know humans can get pretty sick from E. coli getting in the wrong places despite having it in our guts, but I'm wondering now if our bodies' familiarity with it is a boon or a hindrance to dealing with it when that happens compared to if we were a salmonella-based digestive flora kinda critter....

[ShurikVch]

Ok, what's this about infinite snakes? :smallconfused:Some of sspellss have a living snake as a focus.
Since (AFAIK) snakes aren't priced anywhere, we can presume they are in the Spell Component Pouch too.
Thus we can pull them out in any numbers

[Inevitability]

Some of sspellss have a living snake as a focus.
Since (AFAIK) snakes aren't priced anywhere, we can presume they are in the Spell Component Pouch too.
Thus we can pull them out in any numbers

But the moment you stick your hand into a Spell Component Pouch, won't the Sphere of Annihilation inside kill you?

[ShurikVch]

But the moment you stick your hand into a Spell Component Pouch, won't the Sphere of Annihilation inside kill you?Of course not - I wouldn't touch it! :smallsmile:

[ben-zayb]

But the moment you stick your hand into a Spell Component Pouch, won't the Sphere of Annihilation inside kill you?

That's assuming you're still alive, or you don't need blood at all. Remember, all blood that ever existed is in that spell component pouch.

[Der_DWSage]

They're held in there with all the feathers, pies, LIVE SPIDERS, butter, cobwebs, silver pins, pieces of fur from every known animal in existence and some that don't exist, candlewax, beeswax, tallow, unnamed artifacts of various levels of strength, one unnamed 'piece' from every creature that has ever existed and will exist, and glitter.

The glitter isn't actually separate, you just pull out a handul of spiders and toss them in peoples' eyes for Glitterdust. The glitter is everywhere. Everywhere.

[Coretron03]

Don't forget the infinite hands of good aligned clerics that are in there

[animewatcha]

So what happens with everything inside the spell component pouch, when a drunken master rolls a 1 from using the pouch as an improvised weapon?

[Coretron03]

So what happens with everything inside the spell component pouch, when a drunken master rolls a 1 from using the pouch as an improvised weapon?

The universe implodes, solving C/ED (Commoner/everyone disparity). Its common too, because monks are really good magekillers

[The Viscount]

Ok, what's this about infinite snakes? :smallconfused:



I wonder...

Is Salmonella's effectiveness altered based upon whether a creature normally, naturally has it in their gut bacteria?

I know humans can get pretty sick from E. coli getting in the wrong places despite having it in our guts, but I'm wondering now if our bodies' familiarity with it is a boon or a hindrance to dealing with it when that happens compared to if we were a salmonella-based digestive flora kinda critter....

Certainly an interesting question. E. Coli infections that cause disease are ones that have genes for pathogenic proteins, whatever they may be. Salmonella has the same conditions. I don't expect that there's much resistance to pathogenic E. coli gained from having resident non-pathogenic E. coli. I'm sure there are some species with Salmonella resident in their gut, but in any case where Salmonella is going to be resident its not going to be pathogenic to its host. In short I would say no, but it's likely more complicated than I'm making it.

There's also live spiders, so you could likely make a swarm of them by pulling one at a time. And you could keep both spiders and snakes fed with the endless supply of hearts of dwarf children and hands of good aligned human clerics. You can also feed yourself with endless tiny tarts, and use the crumbs to attract ants for another swarm!

[Venger]

The universe implodes, solving C/ED (Commoner/everyone disparity). Its common too, because monks are really good magekillers

Commoner doesn't care. Implosion can only kill you, but commoner is the only class that can take the dead flaw. Can't kill you if you're already dead:

Commoner: 1
Death: No

[John Longarrow]

The glitter isn't actually separate, you just pull out a handul of spiders and toss them in peoples' eyes for Glitterdust. The glitter is everywhere. Everywhere.

That's why I don't take my spell component pouch to THOSE kind of clubs anymore....