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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Combat Expertise: Bringing a Classic into 5e!



Wufflykins
2016-12-16, 08:06 PM
So guys, I want this feat to fall in line with Sharpshooter, Shield Master and Great Weapon Master.

Kind of a Two-or-Three part feat with some broad use and some specific use.

Right now - I'll say it plainly - it's broken. The two 'parts' that I have right now synergise way too well; I need them to not synergise quite so well.

The first part works pretty well the way you expect - I'm limiting it to Versatile/Heavy weapons to prevent synergy with Defensive Duelist.

I think it'll be close to balanced if I can preclude the second ability from triggering the first - so I'm open to ideas about how to word that without it being... Wordy...

You can tell I'm practically shakespearean in my wordsmithery.

I think the new version cleans things up and prevents interactions in ordinary circumstances (the exception I can think of is a round where you:

But you're using a precious resource to do this that will only last one round so I figure it's not rustle anyone's jimmies to badly.

That being said if you think you have a better idea for how to bring this classic into the new age I'd love to hear it. Without further gilding the lily I present:

Combat Expertise

You notice the most subtle openings and cues offered by yourself and your opponents and can punish their mistakes. You gain the following benefits:

When you take the attack action on your turn, you can decide to fight defensively. Doing so imposes disadvantage on all attacks rolls made against you, but attack rolls you make are also made at disadvantage. Additionally you have advantage on checks and saving throws made to resist being grappled, shoved and disarmed. The effects of this ability last until the start of your next turn.

When a creature makes a melee attack against you with disadvantage and misses, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the creature.

When you make a melee weapon attack as a reaction you may add your intelligence modifier to the damage.


Combat Expertise

You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy. You gain the following benefits:

When you take the attack action on your turn, you can take a -5 penalty on attack rolls and athletics checks to shove or grapple to gain a +5 bonus to your Armor Class and checks made to resist shoving and grappling. The effects of this ability last until the start of your next turn. You must be wielding a weapon with the two-handed or versatile property to gain this benefit.

When you take the dodge action on your turn you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.

Combat Expertise

You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy. You gain the following benefits:

The first time you make melee attack with a versatile or heavy weapon on each of your turns, you can take a -5 penalty on attack rolls and athletics checks to shove or grapple to gain a +5 bonus to your Armor Class and checks made to resist shoving and grappling. The effects of this ability last until the start of your next turn.

When you take the dodge action on your turn you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.

Ziegander
2016-12-16, 08:27 PM
When you use the Dodge action on your turn you may use your reaction when an opponent misses you with a melee attack to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.

Wufflykins
2016-12-16, 08:30 PM
When you use the Dodge action on your turn you may use your reaction when an opponent misses you with a melee attack to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.

This isn't bad - monks will love it to bits with their bonus action dodge.

I might tweak it slightly to be more broadly applicable so that it doesn't pigeonhole you into taking the dodge action.

When you use the Dodge action on your turn you may use your reaction when an opponent misses you with a melee attack to make a melee weapon attack against that creature. Something like this:

When a creature makes a melee attack against you with disadvantage and misses, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the creature.

Lawful Good
2016-12-18, 12:09 AM
Correct me if I'm missing something, but why only with two handed weapons? The only people I see taking this feat are tankier, and would use shields.



I see that you can use this with a shield, but only using a longsword or quarterstaff.

JBPuffin
2016-12-18, 02:06 AM
Correct me if I'm missing something, but why only with two handed weapons? The only people I see taking this feat are tankier, and would use shields.



I see that you can use this with a shield, but only using a longsword or quarterstaff.

I don't think that restriction exists anymore.

This is an interesting feat, although it's hard to say who will actually want this beyond Bladesingers...oh f#$& me, that could actually be a hilarious build.

Sicarius Victis
2016-12-18, 02:35 AM
I don't think that restriction exists anymore.

This is an interesting feat, although it's hard to say who will actually want this beyond Bladesingers...oh f#$& me, that could actually be a hilarious build.

"Try to hit me, I dare you!"

The ultimate "weapon-combat" tank.

Tempest Critic
2016-12-21, 12:57 AM
It seems tailored almost towards a duelist type. Someone who wants to take a defensive stance such as dodge, without totally losing the ability to attack.

Gr7mm Bobb
2016-12-21, 09:38 AM
I had a rendition of "Combat Expertise" that I had made a while back.


COMBAT EXPERTISE

During your turn you can choose to use the Help action in place of a weapon attack, this includes attacks granted from two weapon fighting and the Extra Attack feature.
While you benefit from a Dodge action you also have advantage Strength saving throws and opposed Acrobatics and Athletics checks. When a creature you threaten damages you while you threaten it, you may immediately make an Attack of Opportunity against that creature.
Before you make an attack with a weapon that does not have the heavy or two-handed property, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +5 damage to the attacks damage.

My 3rd bullet was to pull allow TWF to have nice things as well. I'm actually considering removing the 2H/Heavy restriction from the bullet. A -10 to hit for +15 damage (GWM and above feat) does not feel too out of proportion, but that may just be lack of sleep spewing from me.


I seem to have gone in the opposite direction from yours with the class of weapon it was designed for, at least in my 3rd bullet. I ran into an issue with my 2nd bullet, which is similar to your second bullet. If you allow them to take the dodge action and also punish a target for missing, you run into an very exhausting dice roll-off attrition contest that is heavily slanted in the feat bearer's favor. By allow them to retaliate against the opponents success, you offer them a way to reap the benefits of attempting to be defensive without giving out a free damage without an actual cost.

Are you restricting it to Versatile/2H to prevent the benefits from stacking with the Defensive Duelist feat?

I feel that adding your Int to your damage feels a tad out of place mechanically and maybe thematically. I do remember CE being a feat chain that had an emphasis on Intelligence, but 5e has been taking steps away from being heavily dependent on stats for the mechanical benefits (though there are exceptions). I think you can probably still allow them to add their 'skill' to their damage by allowing them to add their Proficiency Bonus to damage dealt. This can either be damage from a Reaction based attack, or maybe just as a bonus action.