Steadfast Boots + Cometary Collision?

[Xarteros]

The description of Steadfast Boots states "As long as you carry a two-handed weapon, you are treated as if you had readied that weapon against any creature that charges you"

The description of Cometary Collision states "You can ready a standard action to use this feat when an opponent charges you or any other target. At any point during your opponent's charge, you can charge him"

How would you interpret the two? Would Steadfast Boots allow you to somehow trigger Cometary Collision (maybe only as long as you are the target of the charge)? Or are the two just considered completely separate readied actions by RAW?

[Jowgen]

Those boots are a seriously good and underpriced item, whose goodness and underpricedness is only exceeded by how ill defined its ability is.

The main issue is whether your place in the initiative order changes upon their activation. I generally assume not, because that would get real weird real fast. Imagine combat starts, you're last in the order, but the first in the order charges you, activating the boots.

That aside, I don't think this combo works. Setting a weapon against a charge is different from readying a standard action. This feat allows you to ready an action to use the feat, not charge as part of a set-against-charge attack.

[Erit]

That aside, I don't think this combo works. Setting a weapon against a charge is different from readying a standard action. This feat allows you to ready an action to use the feat, not charge as part of a set-against-charge attack.

That. The boots are used so that you don't need to waste actions readying your longspear against the chargebarian horde, but it isn't a readied action in the sense of Peasant Railgun nomenclature.

[Zanos]

TThat aside, I don't think this combo works. Setting a weapon against a charge is different from readying a standard action. This feat allows you to ready an action to use the feat, not charge as part of a set-against-charge attack.
Agreed with Jowgen. They're discrete standard actions, and don't combine.

[Xarteros]

That's what I thought, I just figured a few different perspectives might be in order to reason it out.

I suppose the question from here would be: Is there any way to combo the two? Would it be fair to make a different type of Steadfast Boots that treat you as readied for a Cometary Collision, instead of treat you as readied against a charge (Swapping the extra damage bonus, and the any-two-handed-weapon effect for the ability to trigger on any opponent's charge in range)?

[Jowgen]

The "set against charge" mechanic has virtually no support to my knowledge, so finding a way to combo them naturally seems unlikely to me. As for adjusting them... The boots themselves aren't fair as an item as is; so strangely, limiting them to only work with a specific feat would make them more balanced. That being said, what the boots do for their price is, at the end of the day, fundamentally unbalanced to the extreme.

Less than 2000 gp for what is essentially Robilar's Gambit, admittedly with the limitation of only working on charges, but without the AC penalty and extra damage taken, added with the added benefits of 1) a stability bonus, 2) extending the ability to set against a charge to all 2-handed weapons, 3) double damage on hit, and (this is the kicker) 4) no use/round limit.

There are Epic items intended for front-line melee characters that don't give you half as much value. Based on this complete lunacy of their pricing, not to mention the uniqueness of many of the their effects, or mentioning how unique Cometary Collision itself is; I really don't see where to begin in coming up with a fair way to adjust them.

[Telok]

My table has always run 'set for charge' as a readied attack action and applying to AoOs (like power attack does). The boots we treat the same as the AoO part of setting for a charge, so most people won't get the benefit more than once a round and have to have a reach or reaction advantage to use them. It hasn't been an issue in our games since most of the primary melee don't get Combat Reflexes, non-melee have other charge coping strategies, and ToB is in play with it's 'no AoOs' charges.

[Andezzar]

My table has always run 'set for charge' as a readied attack action and applying to AoOs (like power attack does). The boots we treat the same as the AoO part of setting for a charge, so most people won't get the benefit more than once a round and have to have a reach or reaction advantage to use them. It hasn't been an issue in our games since most of the primary melee don't get Combat Reflexes, non-melee have other charge coping strategies, and ToB is in play with it's 'no AoOs' charges.Unless you have greater reach than the charger, you do not get an AoO. Setting a weapon against a charge does not grant one either. It is unclear, if your weapon remains set against a charge when you do have greater reach and use your AoO.

[Doctor Awkward]

Unless you have greater reach than the charger, you do not get an AoO. Setting a weapon against a charge does not grant one either. It is unclear, if your weapon remains set against a charge when you do have greater reach and use your AoO.

I could have sworn there was a rule somewhere that stated something to the effect of "If you have a readied action, and you take an AoO, you lose your readied action."

[D.M.Hentchel]

The description of Steadfast Boots states "As long as you carry a two-handed weapon, you are treated as if you had readied that weapon against any creature that charges you"

The description of Cometary Collision states "You can ready a standard action to use this feat when an opponent charges you or any other target. At any point during your opponent's charge, you can charge him"

How would you interpret the two? Would Steadfast Boots allow you to somehow trigger Cometary Collision (maybe only as long as you are the target of the charge)? Or are the two just considered completely separate readied actions by RAW?

So I believe the boots are a very poorly worded way of saying your two-handed weapons deal double damage when attacking someone currently charging you. So you need reach or some other way to attack off turn to gain the benefit of it.

This interpretation fits the price of the item much better, though a strict reading definitely supports the extra attacks.

In my interpretation the boots will make you deal double damage if you use the feat against someone charging you.

[Mr Adventurer]

Interestingly, Steadfast Boots can also seriously mess up your Initiative. If you lose Initiative, and get charged, you get your readied attack but then have to wait for the Initiative cycle to come all the way back around to whoever charged you (when you'll go just ahead of them).

They also offer the opportunity to change your Initiative count in this way a number of times limited only by how often you can get charged. I wonder if that could be useful.

[Jowgen]

So I looked into this thing a bit. The boots in the MIC are a reprint from A&E, whereing the latter gave full immunity to bull-rush and trip and had a slightly different set-against charge function that is not better explained.

Complete Divine has a Kurltumak +3 unholy gnomebane spear relic that has the same function as the boots, exlicitly working on each attack. Sadly, with it being a relic, no price can be extrapolated; as the base spear is 10k cheaper than its enchantments demand, due to relic discount.

Complete Warrior page 124 features one of the few places where setting against charge is discussed in rules text, rather than just weapon description. And that piece of RAW features something insane in context of the boots: If a noncharging foe moves into a threatened square, the soldier who set against the charge can still make an attack but won’t deal double damage. That is right. Readying against a charge includes attacking opponents who simply move into a threatened area. The boots let you attack anyone who comes within range.

Beyond that, I thought it might make sense to list the different ways these boots can be read by RAW, including the silliest ones conceivable. The key phrase:


as long as you carry a two-handed weapon, you are treated as if you had readied that weapon against any creature that charges you (and thus it deals double damage if your attack is successful), even if the weapon can’t normally be set against a charge.

- The boots do nothing unless you can get an attack on a charing creature otherwise, as they don't expecitlty say you get to attack them, only specifying that you deal double damage if your attack (which has no source mentioned) hits.
- A single two handed weapon carried anywhere on your person (not nessecarily wielded) is counted as readied. You auto-draw and attack with it when charged.
- Each two-handed weapon carried anywhere on your person (not nessecarily wielded) is counted as readied. You auto-draw and attack with all of them when charged.
- Only wielded 2-handed weapons are affected by the ready, but if you are dual wielding two-handed weapons (or arguably even a 2-handed double weapon), both are treated as set against the charge, allowing multiple attacks.
- Only a single 2-handed wielded weapon can benefit from the boots, and you can only make one attack with them, because... okay, I see no good RAW reason for this limitation, but there must be something.
- As long as the boots are active, all your standard actions are invariably/automatically used for against-charge setting, meaning that on your own turn, you can only take move/swift/free actions, and you can only make one ready-attack per turn.
- As long as the boots are active, you can attack any creature that charges you (or, as per CW, enters your threatened area), but each time you do your spot in the initiative order changes. Essentially, unless no one comes withing range, you trade getting regular turns to attacking outside your turn.
- As long as the boots are active, you can attack any creature that charges you (or, as per CW, enters your threatened area), and your intiative count is unaffected, as you are only treated as having readied that attack, but never actually took the ready action on your turn.
- As long as the boots are active, you attack the the first charging creature available (with the option of attacking a non-charging creature entered the threatedned area), and then the boots no longer work for the rest of the turn because... I got nothing and don't think there is anything.

I think that should cover most of it.

[Xarteros]

Wow, the longer I look at Steadfast Boots, the more ridiculously flawed they seem. At first glance, they seem way overpowered, but now it seems their power entirely depends on how the DM lets you interpret it.

Any other ideas for somehow triggering the intercepting charge as an immediate action? I don't want to take the feat only to sit on the sidelines waiting for an enemy to charge whilst my party dies, or to never get to use it because everyone charges before I can even ready an action. My DM doesn't run a lot of enemies that charge more than once per encounter, and lots of times they might charge but take some other form of action instead. I love the feat, but I want some way to get use out of it without basically skipping all my turns.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There are Epic items intended for front-line melee characters that don't give you half as much value.That's because, by and large, epic items suck. They're usually subpar and are vastly outshone by cheap non-epic items, especially if the MIC's stacking rules are allowed.


Wow, the longer I look at Steadfast Boots, the more ridiculously flawed they seem. At first glance, they seem way overpowered, but now it seems their power entirely depends on how the DM lets you interpret it.

Any other ideas for somehow triggering the intercepting charge as an immediate action? I don't want to take the feat only to sit on the sidelines waiting for an enemy to charge whilst my party dies, or to never get to use it because everyone charges before I can even ready an action. My DM doesn't run a lot of enemies that charge more than once per encounter, and lots of times they might charge but take some other form of action instead. I love the feat, but I want some way to get use out of it without basically skipping all my turns.Instead of (or in addition to) the steadfast boots, the synchronicity power, from Complete Psionic, allows for stuff like this. It works especially well when you've got Quicken Power and and have one regular standard action and one swift action standard action.

Or you could just vastly increase your reach.

Normal: 5'
Inhuman Reach Feat: +5'
Extended Reach Feat: +5'
Morphic Reach: +5'
Long Reach Feat: Attack at +0', +5', or +10' reach on your turn
Kiss of the Shadows: +25' reach on your turn
Boarding Pike of Repelling: +20'
[5' + 5' + 5' + 5' + 10' + 20' + 25'] = 75' reach on turns
[5' + 5' + 5' + 5' + 20'] = 40' reach between turns