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kpenguin
2007-07-16, 09:20 PM
I'm thinking of having codes of conduct for clerics and druids They gain their abilities from a divine source and already lose them if they act in a manner that is counteractive to that source, so why not pin down what actions are exactly banned by the deity/cause/nature they serve?

Druids share the same code of conduct with nature while each specific deity/cause should have their own code of conduct. Lawful deities should have very strict laws, neutral deities have guidelines that may be broken if to further the cause, and chaotic deities should have codes that are more like loose guidelines.

In order to balance the way lawful clerics will be restricted and chaotic clerics will be more free through the codes, I will increase the involvement of formal churches. Lawful deities are more likely to have clergy organized in churches and thus easier to access for help. Clerics of chaotic deities are less likely to have formal organizations and usually have less resources because of that.

What do you think, o wise ones? Is this fair to implement? Any suggestions on specific codes? Comments? Questions?

Yechezkiel
2007-07-16, 09:27 PM
Depends on what your ideas develop into. With the right players/restrictions it could develop those classes in your world a whole lot.

There are precedences with the Wu Jen taboos and several other non core classes.

Diggorian
2007-07-16, 09:36 PM
I like it.

Unofficially, unspoken in my group, I've been viewing divine classes that way since I started DMing. Although it is explicit that god-less clerics and druids arent allowed in my game. It just ... makes sense for a god to judge and regulate their representatives.

The church organization is a good balancer as well IMO.

I think holding them to a code as strictly as paladins are held is a bit much.

Zeful
2007-07-16, 09:44 PM
I was thinking of doing this myself, as i find it kind of stupid that paladins that have dieties fall for an action a cleric of their god suggested. I've no idea how to do this so I give you my support.

Jack Mann
2007-07-16, 11:27 PM
I think Dragon had some articles that gave players some idea of how followers of the various gods would act. Core Beliefs, I think the series was called.

Tallis
2007-07-16, 11:31 PM
Good idea. Although I haven't codified it yet (there are just guidelines and your god lets you know if you're at risk), this is the way I run my games. If you are going to represent a god, then he'd better like the way you're representing him. Otherwise you will lose your powers.

Neon Knight
2007-07-16, 11:46 PM
Personally, I'm all for ditching class codes, paladin codes included. I prefer to let my players come up with personal codes, and then run them by me. If I feel it fits the class and alignment, I okay it. If I don't okay it, it doesn't fly. Simple.

How would clerics of a cause work? As in, would player's determine the code (since they probably came up with the cause) or would the DM do it?

Yechezkiel
2007-07-17, 12:21 AM
Personally, I'm all for ditching class codes, paladin codes included. I prefer to let my players come up with personal codes, and then run them by me. If I feel it fits the class and alignment, I okay it. If I don't okay it, it doesn't fly. Simple.

How would clerics of a cause work? As in, would player's determine the code (since they probably came up with the cause) or would the DM do it?

Some would say the code the Paladin has is the reason they are the class. The restrictions are there for people who want to play with them.

I don't understand people who gut the flavor and heart out of certain classes, instead of just playing a fighter working for a certain church, for example.

Neon Knight
2007-07-17, 12:28 AM
Because a Fighter isn't a holy warrior. He is a fighter. He can be a devout fighter, but he can't smite people. Or heal people by touching them. For reference, I usually play in games where normal clerics are replaced by cloistered ones, so the paladin's abilities seem to fit "crusader of the faith" best. (I'm a massive fan of Fax's paladin. Allowing players to select their own Mantles of Faith was a stroke of genius.)

I've gutted more fluff than I can remember. Sometimes I gut fluff just to watch it die.

jamroar
2007-07-17, 12:34 AM
I think it is already implied that Clerics & Druids have to stay on the good side of their patron's favor to continue receiving spells. Some deities may even decide to cut off the tap just to see her worshippers squirm (the silence of Lolth thing).

The lawful deities would have more strictures, but you should be safe as long as you cop to those.

The chaotic deities would be more easygoing in general, but also more fickle and inconsistent in what they would take as a personal slight, and how to appease them once you fall out of favor.



How would clerics of a cause work? As in, would player's determine the code (since they probably came up with the cause) or would the DM do it?

I think clerics of causes should simply be banned (and in fact, it is banned in FR and LG). It is entirely an artifact of the bowdlerized politically correct 2nd Ed. without any parallels in mythology and legend, and mechanically, more often than not, is just players cherrypicking the domains that they want without regard for flavor.

kpenguin
2007-07-17, 12:44 AM
Personally, I'm all for ditching class codes, paladin codes included. I prefer to let my players come up with personal codes, and then run them by me. If I feel it fits the class and alignment, I okay it. If I don't okay it, it doesn't fly. Simple.

How would clerics of a cause work? As in, would player's determine the code (since they probably came up with the cause) or would the DM do it?

Well, I'd give the player the ability to come up with their own code, but the DM get's final ruling. A code that says "do whatever you want" isn't really a code and a code that says "kill all elves on sight" is just waiting for party disruption.

Matthew
2007-07-17, 11:26 PM
I think clerics of causes should simply be banned (and in fact, it is banned in FR and LG). It is entirely an artifact of the bowdlerized politically correct 2nd Ed. without any parallels in mythology and legend, and mechanically, more often than not, is just players cherrypicking the domains that they want without regard for flavor.

I wouldn't agree with that. I rather like the idea and there is a real life religion or two I can think of that might qualify.

MeklorIlavator
2007-07-17, 11:42 PM
I think clerics of causes should simply be banned (and in fact, it is banned in FR and LG). It is entirely an artifact of the bowdlerized politically correct 2nd Ed. without any parallels in mythology and legend, and mechanically, more often than not, is just players cherrypicking the domains that they want without regard for flavor.
Personally, I like cleric's of causes that are well defined. That doesn't give them a free ride on the code, in fact it can make their code harsher, because without the deity acting as an intermediary, the cleric must contend with the raw forces. Also, it can lead to combinations of domains that are different, or even contradictory(a Yin-Yang cleric, for example), which also would lead to interesting role-plating situations( why he's casting evil and good spells for example, thou7gh that would require some houseruling).

Then again, I wouldn't allow the cleric of Undeath and Planning, with divine Metamagic and persist spell. Or any other combination made for powergaming. Like any area of player discretion, it must be carefully watched.

TheDarkOne
2007-07-18, 12:09 AM
Lawful good gods might have a code of conduct for their clerics, but most chaotic ones wouldn't. They might have some guidelines, but no strict code, like "If you do X, under any circumstance, then you lose your powers" It would be more like "Really try to avoid doing x, but try to evaluate things on a case by case basis".