Access to Earth Spell feat for creatures with Air subtype or Aquatic Subtype?

[Schattenbach]

Hello,

if I remember right, there was something about creatures with Air subtype or Aquatic subtype being unable to "select" the Earth Sense feat, that is required for Earth Spell.

Can they still somehow (either due just being unable to actually use the Earth Sense feat as I'm not all that sure about that ... or by somehow letting someone else selecting or swapping that feat in) get access to Earth Spell (or something that works the same way)?

Has someone some helpful idea or advice about this issue?

Thanks in advance.

[Necroticplague]

Hello,

if I remember right, there was something about creatures with Air subtype or Aquatic subtype being unable to "select" the Earth Sense feat, that is required for Earth Spell.

Can they still somehow (either due just being unable to actually use the Earth Sense feat as I'm not all that sure about that ... or by somehow letting someone else selecting or swapping that feat in) get access to Earth Spell (or something that works the same way)?

Has someone some helpful idea or advice about this issue?

Thanks in advance.

There's nothing against certain types of creatures using the metamagic. The only limit is on the types of spells that you can apply it to.



As long as you are standing on stone or unworked earth (including normal soil), you can use the Heighten Spell feat to added effect. If you cast a spell using a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level, the spell is treated as a spell of two levels higher and your effective caster level is increased by one. If you use a spell slot two levels higher, the spell is treated as three levels higher and your effective caster level is increased by two, and so on. You cannot gain the benefit of this feat when casting a spell with the air, fire, or water descriptor.
Nothing about Aquatic creatures not being able to use it. Unfortunately, for the restriction that actually exists, there isn't any way around it. except by using Energy Substitution for [fire] spells (but this, sadly, doesn't work for [air] or [water] spells, since those aren't energies).

[Technetium43]

There's nothing against certain types of creatures using the metamagic. The only limit is on the types of spells that you can apply it to.

Nothing about Aquatic creatures not being able to use it. Unfortunately, for the restriction that actually exists, there isn't any way around it. except by using Energy Substitution for [fire] spells (but this, sadly, doesn't work for [air] or [water] spells, since those aren't energies).

Earth SPELL doesn't have that restriction. Earth SENSE (which is required for Earth Spell) does.


Creatures with the air or aquatic subtype may not select this feat.

[Schattenbach]

To ask again as the thread went slightly off-topic:

What kind of solution is there to somehow get Earth Spell work on creatures with Air Subtype or Aquatic Subtype (if they cannot actually get access to it?

Furthermore, ...

... what kind of actions (including that one could - somehow - still take the feat but it cannot be activated/used ... or letting someone else select the feat for you / shuffle the feat out) are included in "may not select this feat" and is that "Special" section of the feat optional or not?
... losing (and possibly regaining) the Air or Aquatic Subtype seems like kind of a hassle ... and what does it actually mean for an creature with that subtype (especially if it's elemental in nature) to lose that subtype, in the first place? I don't renember any Savage Species Ritual that makes one actually lose any Subtype that isn't Lawul, Chaotic, Good or Evil.
... are there any alternate options that could replace Earth Spell reasonably well?

[Inevitability]

Earth SPELL doesn't have that restriction. Earth SENSE (which is required for Earth Spell) does.

The use of 'select' leaves some room for shenanigans, though. A Void Disciple could grant Earth Sense, for example.

[Schattenbach]

The use of 'select' leaves some room for shenanigans, though. A Void Disciple could grant Earth Sense, for example.

Void Disciple's usage is only a temporary solution, though, isn't it, or did I overlook something?

Hm ... What other methods are there?

[Crake]

get rid of your air or aquatic subtype? Seems like the straightforward solution.

[Schattenbach]

get rid of your air or aquatic subtype? Seems like the straightforward solution.

That option is there, too, although that's not without its own problems ...

... as such, is there some way - that isn't a hassle to put into practice - to get ride of the subtype until aquiring the feats is done and then regaining the subtype later on?

On another note ... I guess for the issue of what could actually be used instead of Earth Spell to get - more or less - the same effect, it's actually better to open a new thread.