Speculation Why doesn't anyone create Dwarf PCs? [Archive]

DiceDiceBaby

2016-12-20, 07:07 AM

DarthPenance

2016-12-20, 07:17 AM

Personally I never played any dwarf, I usually play more unusual races like dragonborn or variant human since my DM allows it, because I feel playing human is more relatable to me, and the unusual races because they're cool. I had two friends play dwarf thought, they never said why, I guess it was because they make great fighters.

Ninja_Prawn

2016-12-20, 07:20 AM

To those who play Dwarves or made a Dwarf PC, why did you?

I'm not particularly attracted to dwarves; they're clichéd, overdone, the same in every mythos, and just not my style besides.

Which is exactly why I'm playing Norgrim Bladebreaker (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=999343)! I've played so many elves and fairies and noble ladies that I decided it was time to mix it up a bit. The nice thing about a neutral-aligned dwarf champion is that you can just play him on autopilot. I don't need to make any difficult decisions; social encounters are 'grumble and complain a lot', fights are 'hit it with axe.' It's like, zero pressure.

DanyBallon

2016-12-20, 07:32 AM

over these forums, a lots of the builds provided are done people that like to optimize their character to its upmost potential, so unless you are looking for an arcane spellcaster with a bonus to CON and heavy armor, then most will select Variant Human as it allow to pick a feat at 1st level. You'll also note that almost any melee builds selects GWM and PAM as their first feat selection.

On the other hand, like a previous poster stated, PHB dwarves are very cliché, and it's easy to create a new dwarven character that feel the same as any other dwarf encountered.

Yet in almost all the games I played or DMed, there was at least a single dwarf, and I must thank my friends for trying not to fall into the typical dwarven thrope (trying is the key word here :smallbiggrin:)

RogueGuy

2016-12-20, 07:32 AM

I play a Dwarf Cleric named "Frettle Fireforge". He's a king.

gfishfunk

2016-12-20, 07:40 AM

We had two dwarfs in my game. Now we have one. Not uncommon, I think. Gnomes are very uncommon from what I have seen.

Sariel Vailo

2016-12-20, 07:41 AM

Okay, I read in the other thread on unpopular opinions of 5e that many players refuse to make Dwarf PCs. Based on my adventures witurdy raceh 5e so far, I have yet to see anyone create a Dwarf PC in any of my playgroups.

Why not though?

To those who play Dwarves or made a Dwarf PC, why did you?

To those violently opposed to the idea, why wouldn't you?

Personally, I completely looked over Dwarfs in favor of the other races in the PHB, but after a few months into D&D, I wondered if fluff is the only reason why. The Dwarf race and subrace options have some really neat stuff.

So, why are there no Dwarf PCs?

some people do make dwarf pcs, they are a stout and stout and sturdy race. might be due to limitattions honor or familial and clan. i know a player who is excluseivly dwarf paladin or fighter.he is super dwarf

Erfar

2016-12-20, 07:51 AM

Coz as dwarf I need jump to Head-work my opponent :smallbiggrin:

Also, my expirience say "dwarf most rare race option, second is humans" and only something like AnimaBF or Wh40k have enought humans =)

Giant2005

2016-12-20, 07:55 AM

Dwarves suffer from making great strength based characters, but not great enough to dethrone Variant Humans when it comes to strength based characters.
Basically, the only reason to make a Dwarf is for flavor, yet there are probably more interesting races in that respect too.

Nozza

2016-12-20, 08:01 AM

We had two dwarfs in my game. Now we have one. Not uncommon, I think. Gnomes are very uncommon from what I have seen.

I don't play dwarves often because a guy in my regular group already does. But I play gnomes a lot.

Foxydono

2016-12-20, 08:02 AM

I don't like the whole Dwarven vibe. Dirty, not well mannered, stubborn, etc. My style is to be more unique like a tiefling, Aasimar, or playing a very quick stealthy character like tabaxi. I also enjoy playing intelligent characters, not that a dwarf cannot be intelligent, but I don't associate myself with them. I'd probably neither play a halfling or a gnome though, it just doesn't appeal to me.

Armored Walrus

2016-12-20, 08:14 AM

I played a dwarven bard in a pbp of Lost Mine of Phandelver, for mostly two reasons. In my mind he was a mentor to the rest of the party, knowing how to talk when fighting wasn't needed, and a charismatic "face" dwarf was counter to the cliche. Secondly, I could delve directly into that cliche every time I cast Vicious Mockery. The strings of insults were very fun while they lasted. Too bad the game died...

Willie the Duck

2016-12-20, 08:15 AM

To be honest, I think Dwarves have been relatively subpar in lots of editions, which wouldn't be enough to keep them down, but since then they've never had a mechanical or flavor-wise boost that put them back in the limelight. The LotR movies, for instance--epic level ranger Legolas made elves cool again, while dwarf Gimli was the comic relief.

Also, the last couple of editions (maybe 4e excepting, I don't know it as well) have made the slow, plodding, plate mail and big weapon builds that are iconic dwarven stuff to be some of the less useful character types (ex. 3e's Dwarven Defender PrC, which gave the dwarf bonuses to hit, AC, and damage , so long as he didn't move).

Now with 5e, there is hill dwarf, whose main schtick is 1) high con and hp, 2)being able to wear heavy armor without a high strength, 3)proficiency in weapons that require high strength to be useful, and 4) a bonus to a stat most useful to classes who won't be wearing heavy armor (druid, monk, ranger), or the cleric (who can utilize heavy armor without high strength... but in two basic builds--shillelagh-based or don't-rely-on-weapon-attacks).

Then there is mountain dwarf. Their main schtick is 1)+2 Str and Con (very impressive), 2) being able to use heavy armor without high strength, 3)proficiency in weapons that require high strength to be useful, and 4) medium armor proficiency (but not shield proficiency). So pretty much guaranteed to have one or more of those benefits be redundant or useless. So there are some builds that would like them. Strength-based rogues and bladelocks would like them, as would any caster who just wants armor. Other than that, though, it's hard to find a mechanical reason for them.

Again, mechanics wouldn't matter if there was something else making them cool, but nothing has come along.

GorogIrongut

2016-12-20, 08:22 AM

While I might occasionally dabble for a month in another race, I always come back to dwarves. 2 of the 4 characters in our current campaign are dwarves.

As for why I pick dwarves over everything else...? I could give a long winded and well thought out response as to why they are superior in almost every way. I am however in a flippant mood so you get what you get.

I'll start playing elves when they start growing beards. Because as we all know, people with beards reap a whole host of benefits including but not exclusively the below:
-Science says men with beards are more attractive and viewed as more suitable to fatherhood and protection
-Science says that a man with a beard seen in a group with the unbearded will be viewed as their leader
-With a beard, your thoughts look much deeper and more developed
-The bearded have right of way whenever crossing paths with the beardless. When two beards cross paths, the larger beard always has right of way.
-Those with beards always have backup options working as a lumberjack. They are also better able to sense where the nearest mountain is and look infinitely better in flannel. Try arm wrestling a bear without a beard...
-Beards look sweet in the wind and are the perfect place for hiding your spare set of thieves tools.
-It's also a good place to hide a piece of spare cheese for a later snack.
-Science says beards help keep you wrinkle free, keep you warm during the winter and cooler during the summer.
-After shaving you look like a 12 year old... This does not help picking up women.
-Especially as women's hands seem drawn to beards as if they were magnets. They can't seem to resist running their fingers through them... (don't let them steal your cheese)
-Beards are beyond words. A simple look and a nod between two bearded brethren says something... and that something is, 'I, too, have a beard brother.' This beardy telepathy is useful in countless instances.

Sometimes I wonder if there is anything better to do with your time than growing a beard. The answer to this is of course no.

Stop Beard Oppression! and Support Dwarves... the original Lumber-sexuals.

JumboWheat01

2016-12-20, 08:22 AM

I'd gladly play dwarves if it wasn't for my obsession with halflings. But then again, all my quiz results tend to put my alignment in Lawful Good, so I suppose I just empathize with dwarven culture.

Joe the Rat

2016-12-20, 08:26 AM

I've got an (idling) AL Dwarven Cleric of Umberlee. Let that sink in.
My home game has a Dwarven Librarian Paladin.
The last FLGS game I was in had a Duergar BattleRager who was lame jokes incarnate.

We play for humor. We play for stalwart souls. We play to be grumpy. We play to be tough little nuts that trundle though combat like axe-wielding armadillos. We play for the fabulous facial hair.
We play to defy expectations as much as we embrace them.

MrStabby

2016-12-20, 08:29 AM

I think dwarfs are not that good, and even when they are they are just not sexy.

If i want to play a melee character I want something a bit flashy - very likely dex based and maybe with a bit of magic splashed on top. If I want to play a caster I have a single most important stat that the dwarf does nothing for. Either for a caster or a fighter I am unlikely to pick a dwarf.

Strength based classes also tend to be a little weak as initiative is such a crucial roll. If you get 3 rounds of combat and everyone else only gets 2 you will be typically doing 50% more than them. Strength doesn't have to mean low dex but it usually indicates it.

Speed is also an issue. If I am going to be slow i want to be small so I can ride something around inside to keep up speed. If it is an outside campaign I could go for the armoured knight - but still doesn't feel that great.

On the other hand hill dwarfs do make great monks. More HP, Con, Wis, some resistances and now able to keep up with everyone else.

PaxZRake

2016-12-20, 08:41 AM

I'm currently playing Thaddeus H. Fillimore a Chaotic Evil (One of my bonds is that I'd never betray or harm my friends) Moon Druid (I'm kind of playing him like a blighter) who grew disillusioned with the regimented soldier life of his family and wanted to seek out a simpler, more free life of fun and adventure after falling in love with a Marilith.

Also, I pretty exclusively play dwarves. If you don't like the stereotypical approach to them, find a way to break the mold. Character creation is half the battle.

MrStabby

2016-12-20, 08:46 AM

I think a problem is that people tie fluff and mechanics together too strongly.

I wouldn't have a problem in one of my games if someone wanted to play a "Dwarf" character but use the racial bonuses/penalties of another race.

tsotate

2016-12-20, 08:57 AM

They don't? One of the AL tables at my store last week was a dwarven tempest cleric, a dwarven nature cleric, a dwarven war cleric, and a dwarven life cleric.

Corsair14

2016-12-20, 09:02 AM

I do. I play a Dwarven ranger based off the old Vermin Slayer kit from 2nd ed. I have never noticed a lack of dwarves in my games.

. Shadowblade .

2016-12-20, 09:08 AM

We had Dwarf cleric in our party - he is dead, he sacrificed himself to save the rest of party.

Quoxis

2016-12-20, 09:10 AM

Dwarves have Con and Str or Wis.
I usually refuse to roleplay a low-Cha character, and half-elf or most other races just fit better, both stat- and lorewise.
I have a character in my head though that i can't wait to try: a (low-cha) dwarf monk/barbarian, fluffed to be an alcoholic martial artist (who enters "rage" by drinking his self-brewed booze that is basically lighter fluid), and dwarf just fits that idea the best.

Joe the Rat

2016-12-20, 09:17 AM

They don't? One of the AL tables at my store last week was a dwarven tempest cleric, a dwarven nature cleric, a dwarven war cleric, and a dwarven life cleric.
Go, Team Cleric! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0077.html)

lonewulf

2016-12-20, 09:22 AM

Almost every game i've played in had a Dwarf (and my wife always plays one). It's Gnomes that I never see. And if I didnt enjoy playing an Elf i'd never see them either. Now that I really think about it the groups I play in are almost entirely Dwarves, Half-Elves, Halflings and Humans.

On a semi-related note, I've never played an Elf in 5e....they just seem somehow lackluster in 5e...Im not sure why. But Half-Elf is one of my favorite races in 5e.

alchahest

2016-12-20, 09:25 AM

Dwarves are great. in the past three editions they've also been among the more powerful of race picks due to all the various different things that get added in on top of their ability scores. I think maybe some people focus hard in on one particular archetypical dwarf type and get turned off it that isn't to their liking. The Gimli, or the Warhammer Slayer, the Thorin. But forget all of the other wonderful Dwarves in fiction, like the rest of the fellowship, like Ahira Bandylegs, like Nikabrik, like Gwildor, like Willow Like Norðri, Suðri, Austri and Vestri

expand your influences if you want different dwarves!

lonewulf

2016-12-20, 09:28 AM

I do. I play a Dwarven ranger based off the old Vermin Slayer kit from 2nd ed. I have never noticed a lack of dwarves in my games.

I love me some Vermin Slayer XD

Tanarii

2016-12-20, 09:34 AM

Personally I find myself stereotyping a Dwarf, or any non-human race for that matter, a little too much. Either they're a boisterous fun loving dwarves (in 5e always brewers), brooding warriors, or technically/craft inclined (usually locksmith rogues or in 5e Guild Artisans). Not just talking about 5e obviously, talking about D&D in general.

Contrasting that with Elves, I just flat out don't play Elves any more. My last one was a Eladrin Warlock in 4e ... yet another magical swordsman, albeit with fun and interesting new powers in combat. So far I haven't had a 5e Elf, because if I did I'd either be a High Elf magical swordsman, or a Wood Elf nature-y bowman.

My big problem is I get tired of the stereotype ... but breaking sterotype just for it's sake is worse. Of course, it's possible to break stereotype just right in interesting ways. I'm just not very good at that because I've played D&D for 30 years and they're a little too embedded at this point. Here's a good Angry Rant on how to break stereotypes right: http://www.madadventurers.com/angry-rants-stop-playing-against-stereotypes/

Millstone85

2016-12-20, 09:36 AM

There is a player at our table whose style of play is, shall I say, taciturn.
But his latest character, and first dwarf, seems to be one he likes to describe.

Discord

2016-12-20, 10:14 AM

I made a Favored Soul Sorcerer Mountain Dwarf, he was OK, I played with him for well over a year before he got sucked into the Astral plane by a bad happenstance, he's still alive, just working his way to get back to the material plane some how (He was level 7) he was very fun to play.

jaappleton

2016-12-20, 10:19 AM

I'm not particularly attracted to dwarves; they're clichéd, overdone, the same in every mythos, and just not my style besides.

Which is exactly why I'm playing Norgrim Bladebreaker (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=999343)! I've played so many elves and fairies and noble ladies that I decided it was time to mix it up a bit. The nice thing about a neutral-aligned dwarf champion is that you can just play him on autopilot. I don't need to make any difficult decisions; social encounters are 'grumble and complain a lot', fights are 'hit it with axe.' It's like, zero pressure.

I love how you have TWO battleaxes.

"ONE AIN'T ENOUGH!"

jaappleton

2016-12-20, 10:23 AM

I really like Dwarves. I think they bring a lot to the table. There's a ton to RP with as far as inspiration goes, and while it's super easy to play the 'autopilot Elf-hating, beard having, Moradin worshipping grumpy guy' there's also plenty of room to play against that. I played one who tried to act like that, but was raised outside of a Clan and didn't actually know how to BE a Dwarf.

It's stat bonuses and abilities are also solid. Nothing to complain about there. Armor proficiency helps a lot of class options as something of a contrarian pick. Resistance to Poison is pretty underrated.

CaptainSarathai

2016-12-20, 10:42 AM

Honestly, I see more Dwarfs than Gnomes or even Half Orcs. In fact, I've never seen a Half Orc unless I was the one playing him. I've seen 2 gnomes. I've played a Dwarf, and have seen several beside.

I think people avoid Dwarfs because it's not much of a power-fantasy. If you want to be a Dragon you play DBorn. If you want to be a gothy edgelord you go Drow or Tiefling.
Most others go Elf. Elves are conventionally attractive, slender, elegant, smart, "Don Draper or Arwen" types. Everyone wants to be that.
The people who want to be more true to themselves go Human.
Powergamers go with whatever fits, and Dwarfs aren't too powerful.

Dwarfs are great for new players though. They're well-rounded and tough, and easy to roleplay because they're always the same in one setting as any other.

Usually I see dwarfs played by fellow Beardos, or played for comic relief, or by tea-totalers or minors who want to live out their boozy fantasies vicariously.

The last Dwarf I played was in 4e, actually. Hallock HalfHand. He was a hybrid Fighter/Ranger, Multiclass Avenger, specializing in dual wielding. He wore a gauntlet axe on each hand, very little armor, and just punched stuff to death. He was awesome, but he was also a stereotypical dwarf: not always a bad thing when you get to play the "straight-man" to all the wierd races out there.

MrFahrenheit

2016-12-20, 10:46 AM

I've seen a ton of hill dwarves; only one of the mountain variety though.

Aelyn

2016-12-20, 10:48 AM

My group always used to have a thing against dwarves for no apparent reason, but over the last year or two we've come to appreciate them a lot more. When one of the group decided to run Curse of Strahd, I chose to play a Chaotic Good dwarven cleric of Talos who was a ship's chaplain / barometer and spoke with an Eastern European accent. He was good fun...

MinotaurWarrior

2016-12-20, 10:49 AM

I think dwarves are the least fun to play for me because their bonuses push them in an uninteresting direction. You're slow, you're tough, and that's about it. Your only active ability is the fairly useless proficiency / expertise in the history of rocks. So, what do you do? Well, the same thing as any other race, except more slowly, and with fewer things happening to you.

Compare this to, say, the elf. An elf's weapon proficiency (longbow) let's them do something that they otherwise just couldn't do (shoot from very far away). Their trancing makes every day different. They get minor spellcasting, or the ability to close distance faster and hide in more environments.

Dragonborn have breath weapons. Orcs have brutal criticals and their "not today". Tieflings have darkness. Gnomes have robots or animal friends. Et cetera.

There are very few challenges that I can just DWARF my way through.

Gwendol

2016-12-20, 10:50 AM

Dwarves are great. Although not in stature.

MadGrady

2016-12-20, 10:50 AM

I love Dwarves. I've made several fighters and clerics using the Dwarven race. Several in my group have expressed their own bias against the race, however, citing mostly that they hate short races (yes dwarves are medium, but the ancient stigma remains).

I play a dwarf as often as I can, and I think you should too lol

Gwendol

2016-12-20, 10:52 AM

There are very few challenges that I can just DWARF my way through.

Drinking contests (both advantage vs poison, and resistance to the damage).

JellyPooga

2016-12-20, 11:30 AM

There are very few challenges that I can just DWARF my way through.

Oddly enough, I've often found that Dwarves are great for "Dwarfing" through social challenges, despite having zero mechanical benfits in those circumstances. Most of the appeal of playing a Dwarf is, well...being a rough, tough, surly, ale-drinking, condescending, over-critical, bearded chunk of barely contained aggression, wrapped in leathery skin and steel undergarments. With an axe (or hammer, I suppose, but axe is more traditional...damned young'un dwarves with their new fangled hammers...how're you supposed to cleave orc necks with a forge tool?). There's a remarkably large number of social situations you can barrel through with that particular collection of cliche's, leaving the recipients speechless and compliant by the sheer force of your pure Dwarfishness being thrown in their face.

Which is the problem. Being a Dwarf means being a Dwarf and embracing all the cliche's. Move away from them and, well, you're not really much of a Dwarf any more and your racial abilities don't offer much else.
- Want to be a Dwarf Wizard? Great!
- Want to be a Dwarf Wizard without an axe? OK, not so great, but I can go with that. You're still rocking good Con, the tool proficiencies and the surly attitude, right?
- Want to be a Dwarf Wizard with low Con, no armour, an intellectual and amiable attitude and no regard for "peasant work" like hitting hot metal with other bits of blunt metal? Er...why did you want to be a Dwarf again?

The same can be said for other races, too, but to a much lesser degree because the mechanical boons of other races tend to be tailored toward certain Class/Race combos (e.g. Halflings are great Rogues), while the Dwarf racial traits are more about just being Dwarfish. Everyone benefits pretty much equally from high Con and advantage vs. poison and most of their other traits are little more than ribbons.

Steel Mirror

2016-12-20, 11:42 AM

I don't think being a dwarf means needing to embrace all the cliches...but I also think the dwarven cliches are pretty amusing and awesome, so wanting to play a really dwarven dwarf is totally understandable to me too. Maybe it's because I'm a big fan of Pratchett, but I've never understood the complaint that "dwarves are so one-note!" Well, if you don't want to play a dwarf that acts like the racist stereotypes people have for dwarves...then don't! That could even be an interesting character. The dwarf who acts nothing like what people expect from a dwarf, and then rolls his eyes at all the racists who are shocked that his entire people don't conform to their narrow expectations. (Don't tell short jokes around that guy, just don't ;) )

I really like 5E dwarves, I think they are my favorite dwarves in any edition I've played. In my experience they are played less than the pretty races like elves and aasimar, partly because many players have a measure of investment in their characters and want them to be attractive, graceful, and erudite (and none of those are bad things!). So there's a smaller pool of people willing to even look at dwarves at all.

That said, I think dwarves are more common than gnomes and dragonborn in games I've been a part of, and probably on par with tieflings, half orcs, and halflings. So someone out there is playing them!

Tanarii

2016-12-20, 11:51 AM

IMaybe it's because I'm a big fan of Pratchett, but I've never understood the complaint that "dwarves are so one-note!" Well, if you don't want to play a dwarf that acts like the racist stereotypes people have for dwarves...then don't! That could even be an interesting character. The dwarf who acts nothing like what people expect from a dwarf, and then rolls his eyes at all the racists who are shocked that his entire people don't conform to their narrow expectations. (Don't tell short jokes around that guy, just don't ;) )
That's not Pratchett Dwarves at all. His dwarves are hugely stereo-typical within the stereotype of his world. And his primary Dwarf characters are the perfect example of how to break stereotype well, as opposed to poorly. They are Dwarves, but ...

Carrot is a Dwarf ... but he's technically a human.
Cheery is a Dwarf ... but she's technically a she.

You take all that stereotypical dwarfishness, and you change just ONE aspect of it. And you trickle down the effects of that change to see where it breaks the stereotype, and where it doesn't.

Edit: Another great pratchett example of a broader breaking of stereotype is the factional divide of the deep & city dwarves, especially the younger ones walking around with their helmets on backwards. (I always envision them with their chainmail pants sagging down around their ass too.)

Steel Mirror

2016-12-20, 11:56 AM

That's not Pratchett Dwarves at all. His dwarves are hugely stereo-typical within the stereotype of his world. And his primary Dwarf characters are the perfect example of how to break stereotype well, as opposed to poorly. They are Dwarves, but ...

Carrot is a Dwarf ... but he's technically a human.
Cheery is a Dwarf ... but she's technically a she.

You take all that stereotypical dwarfishness, and you change just ONE aspect of it. And you trickle down the effects of that change to see where it breaks the stereotype, and where it doesn't.
I wasn't really saying that my example was a Pratchett dwarf, I was just saying that I love Pratchett dwarves, where they get a lot of attention and become an interesting culture, and have individuals even within that culture who challenge its tenets and live quite differently from the rest of them.

Then I had a suggestion for playing a dwarf for people who aren't 100% on board for the super dwarfy dwarves. It was just (I thought) a silly idea. I wasn't trying to say "that's what Pratchett dwarves are!" This is a thread about playing dwarves in D&D after all, not on the Disc. :smallwink:

Tanarii

2016-12-20, 11:58 AM

Fair enough, but I do think that Pratchett's Carrot (even though technically human) and especially Cheery are fantastic examples of how to break a racial stereotype well. Change one major thing, then see what that changes within the stereotype.

Of course, there's more than one D&D Dwarf sterotype already. For example, a Tolkein scottish warrior dwarf / Forgotten Realms Shield Dwarf is a different thing from a Krynnish Hylar from the founding of era of Colin Stonetooth & the founding of Thorbardin, or a mercury-addled Klar from the later era, or a FR Gold Dwarf trader.

Steel Mirror

2016-12-20, 12:01 PM

Fair enough, but I do think that Pratchett's Carrot (even though technically human) and especially Cheery are fantastic examples of how to break a racial stereotype well.
I'm totally agreed on that one!

Biggstick

2016-12-20, 12:32 PM

JAL_1138

2016-12-20, 01:34 PM

They don't? One of the AL tables at my store last week was a dwarven tempest cleric, a dwarven nature cleric, a dwarven war cleric, and a dwarven life cleric.

Had a similar experience, not an all-Dwarf or all-Cleric party, but only because it was a big table. There were four dwarven Clerics out of seven players--two Arcanas, a Life, and a Knowledge (me). About 3/4 of the Clerics I see in League are (hill) dwarves.

Theodoxus

2016-12-20, 01:56 PM

Basically, to answer the OP's thread, players do create Dwarf PC's at about the same rate that every other race is created at. They might just be not played in the circle of players you play with. This in itself might be a sign that you play with a bunch of like minded people when it comes to character/story creation. Maybe try branching out a bit in the players you play with, or talking with other players about it.

I came here to answer similarly; just because there's a thread where one guy's opinion is no one plays dwarves... well, as the thread notes, it's an unpopular opinion - and factually untrue. But since we're in a post-fact world, I guess that makes sense - and doesn't ultimately matter.

After subjecting my players to a green dragon attack, where the dwarves laughed at the breath weapon and the rest of party was nearly wiped out - dwarves gained a bit of credibility with the non-dwarf crowd.

They have their place...

One thing I do think people overlook - while talking about wearing heavy armor - that's a nifty thing, but outside of a niche Shillelagh build or a weird dex build - it's a bit wasted (and really, 5' faster than a 10 Str human in plate is kinda meh)... but dwarves are the workhorses/mules of the adventuring party. Hauling all that treasure out of long forgotten dungeons - if not simply handwaved, is useful with a dwarf. That extra 300 pounds of coins and magic armor you didn't want to leave behind can be easily packed in a trunk and strapped to the dwarfs back. He might grumble, but he'll trudge along at his 25' move without ever slowing down.

Oramac

2016-12-20, 02:02 PM

I have a Mountain Dwarf Rogue that's a lot of fun, actually. I made him because I play a dwarf rogue in WoW, and wanted to capture some of that same feel.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with dwarves.

CursedRhubarb

2016-12-20, 02:27 PM

Current group is all dwarves (except the new guy, he's an elf) and while no where near optimized, we've had fun with a duergar wizard, hill dwarf warlock, had a mountain Dwarf battlerager but died and now is a hill dwarf druid.
The poison resistance and advantage on poison saves has been a lifesaver, as the lock, the HP boost of hill dwarf has been very nice. Almost had as much HP as the barbarian while he was alive, and with sucky lock AC I needed the HP.

Herobizkit

2016-12-20, 03:53 PM

MeeposFire

2016-12-20, 04:01 PM

Dwarves have always been relatively common as races go for PCs in games I have been with. People seem to enjoy playing them and their bonuses are broadly speaking fairly nice.

In the current store game we have 3 dwarves which is the most of any single race so I would have to say that for games I have participated in Dwarves are certainly not rare.

Drackolus

2016-12-20, 04:06 PM

We've had one dwarf in our group, and I played one in a one-off. This thread makes me really want to play one though. Especially since I tend to drink at the table anyway.
Hill dwarf life clerics are neat.

Yuki Akuma

2016-12-20, 04:07 PM

My first ever D&D 5e character was a Mountain Dwarf Ranger. He was awesome.

JAL_1138

2016-12-20, 04:23 PM

Playing against stereotype helps.

For example, in one game, I had a Dwarven Diviner NPC who was modeled after 'The Most Interesting Man In the World' (from the Dos Equis commercials). He always dressed immaculately, kept his bead trimmed to a respectable length, wore spectacles, and enjoyed a fine snifter of brandy while reading by the fireplace.

For that matter, there's different ways you can go with the "gruff, bearded, tough, drunk, axe-or-hammer-wielder" stereotype, like a gives-no-f#%^s, deadpanning Russian or an Appalachian coal-mining moonshiner, rather than the typical Glaswegian football hooligan. Hillbilly hill dwarves are a hoot to play. They tick pretty much all the boxes on the dwarven stereotypes from the PHB--miners, crafters, religiousness, family loyalty, clan feuds, and the like--but change the accent from Scottish to West Virginian and you've got a whole 'nother character.

Syll

2016-12-20, 04:38 PM

I don't play dwarves because they're a small race.

Mechanically, I don't want to deal with the reduced movement speed, and fluff wise I can't get in to the head of a creature that's only 4 ft tall.

I won't play gnomes or halflings for the same reason (they're worse actually, since they're 3ft tall and 40lbs)

djreynolds

2016-12-20, 04:39 PM

Mountain dwarves are awesome. Useful for any class.
My advice is play one.
Great for older players at the table... for a more aged personality.

Sigreid

2016-12-20, 05:43 PM

For my part my disdain for dwarves comes from the fact that most of the people I have seen play them use it as an excuse to play the most obnoxious, socially inept misanthrope they can come up with.

Tanarii

2016-12-20, 06:17 PM

For my part my disdain for dwarves comes from the fact that most of the people I have seen play them use it as an excuse to play the most obnoxious, socially inept misanthrope they can come up with.You mean the way most people play Gnomes as obnoxious squeaky Tinker Gnomes, or Lightfoot Halflings* as insulting & irresponsible Kender?

*most people mostly means me in the case of Lightfoot halflings

Spellbreaker26

2016-12-20, 06:25 PM

You mean the way most people play Gnomes as obnoxious squeaky Tinker Gnomes, or Lightfoot Halflings* as insulting & irresponsible Kender?

*most people mostly means me in the case of Lightfoot halflings

There's a wrong way to play any race:

Elves (especially Drow), Half-Elves, Teiflings: "Ooh so edgy" outcasts

Gnomes or halflings: QUIRKY. Look at my many QUIRKS. They won't get tiresome, will they? QUIRKY

Dwarves: Drink drink drink... bad accent... AXES. I attack without sneaking because I'm not a coward.

Half-Orcs, Humans, Dragonborn: I'm going to be evil, I can't help it, I'm a Half-Orc/Human/Dragonborn, now stop oppressing me and let me kill you and defile your corpse.

Tanarii

2016-12-20, 06:36 PM

Half-Orcs, Humans, Dragonborn: I'm going to be evil, I can't help it, I'm a Half-Orc/Human/Dragonborn, now stop oppressing me and let me kill you and defile your corpse.Interesting. I always play Half-orcs as ugly humans who got picked on a lot as kids, and had to learn not to punch in the faces of said bullies. However, I assume half-orcs raised by orcs would be the corpse-defiling kind.

To me the wrong way to play a half-orc is as a noble or redeemed savage.

Edit: One of my favorite Half-orc pictures from D&D is the ones in the 4e PHB.

Spellbreaker26

2016-12-20, 06:41 PM

Interesting. I always play Half-orcs as ugly humans who got picked on a lot as kids, and had to learn not to punch in the faces of said bullies. However, I assume half-orcs raised by orcs would be the corpse-defiling kind.

To me the wrong way to play a half-orc is as a noble or redeemed savage.

Edit: One of my favorite Half-orc pictures from D&D is the ones in the 4e PHB.

That's why I consider it the wrong way to play it. The last one I had as a party member was a chaotic "neutral" headtaking barbarian. To be fair, he did save our lives once by destroying a dragon from the inside with his greataxe...

But I just consider it a boring and obnoxious stereotype. That's why I like the fact that the paladin picture in the 5e PHB is a half-orc.

Sigreid

2016-12-20, 07:08 PM

Fodmuc

2016-12-21, 12:16 AM

I made a Dwarf Druid because it sounded interesting to me, It certainly is interesting, and I love the character

MaxWilson

2016-12-21, 12:44 AM

Okay, I read in the other thread on unpopular opinions of 5e that many players refuse to make Dwarf PCs. Based on my adventures with 5e so far, I have yet to see anyone create a Dwarf PC in any of my playgroups.

Why not though?

To those who play Dwarves or made a Dwarf PC, why did you?

To those violently opposed to the idea, why wouldn't you?

Personally, I completely looked over Dwarfs in favor of the other races in the PHB, but after a few months into D&D, I wondered if fluff is the only reason why. The Dwarf race and subrace options have some really neat stuff.

So, why are there no Dwarf PCs?

Several reasons:

(1) I'm a human. When I come up with a character, I default to thinking of it in terms of my own species: human. Dwarves qua dwarves don't interest me so much. Contrast this with e.g. Volo's lizardmen, who actually do have an intriguingly alien mentality--I can imagine playing a lizardman for a fun change of pace because I want to experiment with thinking like a reptile. But I can't think of a single character concept I want to play which has any reason to be modeled as a dwarf instead of a human.

(2) Mechanically they are mostly suited to being melee warriors, and melee fighting is weak in 5E. And mechanically humans are quite strong, which per #1 I am 100% okay with.

(3) Dwarves are slow, and slowness is death in a Combat As War campaign. Even if I were tempted for some reason to play a dwarf (e.g. I want medium armor for some reason and don't care about shield proficiency), the 25' move speed would make me re-think it.

Finback

2016-12-21, 04:12 AM

I've made dwarves (but not gotten them to the table); it's about what story you want to tell. Sometimes, a dwarf fits that role, other times, an elf or a tiefling would be better.

I mean, my rogue/monk who saw his parents killed before him in the Underdark *could* have been an elf, or a dragonborn, but a dwarf felt more right to be running around the Underdark, wearing the hide of a dire bat and striking fear into cowardly and superstitious drow.

Tanarii

2016-12-21, 10:37 AM

(3) Dwarves are slow, and slowness is death in a Combat As War campaign. Even if I were tempted for some reason to play a dwarf (e.g. I want medium armor for some reason and don't care about shield proficiency), the 25' move speed would make me re-think it.Ive got plenty of Dwarf players in my combat-as-war campaign, and slowness only means death if they try to flee a lost fight last.

OTOH from posts you've made before I strongly suspect you believe combat-as-war translates into 'kite them to death'.

Biggstick

2016-12-21, 11:35 AM

(2) Mechanically they are mostly suited to being melee warriors, and melee fighting is weak in 5E. And mechanically humans are quite strong, which per #1 I am 100% okay with.

Hill Dwarves are arguable one of the best Cleric races in the game. Advantage vs poison, +2 Con and additional HP per level, a drop of Wisdom, and the ability to not be slowed down by heavy armor, meaning you don't have to have 15 Str to be wearing that Plate.

If you're ever playing a Cleric, Hill Dwarf is one of the best options you can choose. And Clerics for the most part are second line with full caster capabilities. Pretty different from melee warriors imo.

Ravinsild

2016-12-21, 11:48 AM

Because I almost don't play anything outside of Orcs/Half-Orcs and Gnolls when possible. Been my favorite race since 3.5

This is mostly because I love Warcraft Orcs and essentially play D&D Orcs as....Warcraft Orcs. Rehgar, Grom Hellscream, Thrall, Gul'dan, Garrosh Hellscream, Orgrim Doomhammer (from the books especially), Blackhand even and so many more.

My Half-Orc Pirate Barbarian grew up with his dainty Bard Father...because his full Orc mother didn't think he would cut it living in the traditional Orc lifestyle and sent him away....because his Father is a dainty Bard that couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. So he got made fun of a lot and decided to become the most fearsome pirate that ever roamed the seas to prove just what a tough guy he is.

I'm trying to work out my other concept for an Orog...I don't think being an Eye of Gruumsh is very party friendly but the fluff is so cool. Basically just an Orog Barbarian that is typical Orc doing typical Orc things but Warcrafty so not necessarily Chaotic Evil.

Samayu

2016-12-21, 11:28 PM

I think that people who like to play dwarves really like to play dwarves.

They do tend to lend themselves to the cliche, but all the other races have a similar level of cliche, and those cliches are easier to ignore.

Ogre Mage

2016-12-21, 11:46 PM

Had a similar experience, not an all-Dwarf or all-Cleric party, but only because it was a big table. There were four dwarven Clerics out of seven players--two Arcanas, a Life, and a Knowledge (me). About 3/4 of the Clerics I see in League are (hill) dwarves.

Yes, in my experience hill dwarves are among the most popular and strongest choices for cleric PCs. I have played one myself and it works very well.

Auramis

2016-12-22, 12:19 AM

those cliches are easier to ignore.

This is such a good way to put it. A cliched dwarf (I will never forgive Gimli's portrayal in LotR) is very hard to ignore. They tend to be raucous. A cliched elf is aloof and quiet, typically. Probably has a mightier than thou attitude, but that's each to look past when compared to the party drunk. Same applies to the other racial cliches (shorties and 'quirks').

I do agree, though, that I see more dwarves than gnomes. Gnomes are few and far-between.

TheNecrocomicon

2016-12-22, 12:33 AM

I finally got into D&D joining a group that was starting anew at 1st level in a brand new 5e campaign after having run epic-level characters in a 4e campaign.

I made a Dwarf character because I felt it was the easiest for me to successfully roleplay -- both he and I are relatively mild-mannered, straightforward, loyal individuals who like to cut to the proverbial chase and get down to business. Heck, even the Stonecunning trait lines up well with a lot of my university studies and professional work, which has included both civil engineering and earth science.

I don't need a tortured backstory or absurd levels of quirkiness to have a good time in D&D and I find I actually enjoy being the "straight" contrast to the players/PCs who have layers upon layers of mystery. It's also a seven-person party, so I would imagine the DM probably appreciates not all the players being hardcore RPers in the first place.

I picked Hill Dwarf over Mountain Dwarf due to the utility in making a Cleric (also the class pick was because I was new and wanted to spellcast without the complex mechanics and logistics of arcane casters). I built him somewhat unorthodox as a worshipper of Lathander instead of a dwarven-pantheon god, as the Light domain interested me in that it contrasts with our party's other Cleric, who is a half-Orc and a Life domain follower of Lliira, and it provided a link to another party member, who is a Paladin in service to Lathander. Consequent to that allegiance, my PC is Neutral Good instead of the usual Lawful Good that one would expect from a Dwarf.

Where am I going with this? Merely that there are plenty of ways to enjoy playing as a Dwarf, and to do so in ways that are not the standard cliched image of a short, ill-tempered and aggressive bearded dude.

Tanarii

2016-12-22, 11:17 AM

Mountain Dwarves also make fine Clerics. They're just (slightly) better at preaching with their Warhammer/Battleaxe than their Hill cousins, and slightly worse at doing it with spells.

jaappleton

2016-12-22, 11:21 AM

My Tabaxi Rogue died, and thanks to the help of GitP, I made a Hill Dwarf Light Cleric to replace him.

I wrote three little paragraphs describing him. To nail the 'cantankerous, reluctant cleric' vibe, I wrote this. It's the Dwarfiest thing I've ever written:

"By Moradin's bearded ----sack, get the heck away from me before I send you to see Lolth's hairy --- myself!"

I'm very much looking forward to playing this Dwarf :smallbiggrin:

King539

2016-12-22, 11:26 AM

I play with someone who only plays dwarves, and I have played two Hill Dwarf PCs.

Beleriphon

2016-12-22, 11:39 AM

If you don't create dwarf characters, or heavens forfend, don't like dwarves you must read The Dwarves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dwarves_(novel)).

lonewulf

2016-12-22, 12:57 PM

Sir cryosin

2016-12-22, 04:57 PM

I dont think there is a "wrong" way to play ANY race. There is simply "overused" ways that I wouldnt mind seeing less of. But if im in a game with The Dwarfiest Dwarf to ever Dwarf and an Edgey-Broodmaester Drow im not going to complain about it. If that is what is fun for them then that's cool.

I have a player in my group that's playing a revenant dwarf. He's not to dwarfy but he is the biggest edge Lord every playing a death cleric warlock muilticlass.

Theodoxus

2016-12-22, 05:13 PM

Contrast this with e.g. Volo's lizardmen, who actually do have an intriguingly alien mentality--I can imagine playing a lizardman for a fun change of pace because I want to experiment with thinking like a reptile.

This is how I felt about Thri-kreen in 2E's Dark Sun. I'm a little sad that they haven't made a PC comeback in 5E yet...

Regulas

2016-12-22, 05:39 PM

There's almost always a Dwarf in most groups I've ever played with.

While I'm not a huge fan of regular Dwarves what with their boring stereotypes, I love Duergar when a DM allows it. Sneaky, suspicious, highly pragmatic and arcane, they are basically very non-traditional compared to other Dwarves. The sun-light sensitivity can limit choices in the overworld though.

I find that halflings and gnomes tend to be quite rare of the traditional races.

Finback

2016-12-22, 11:16 PM

This is how I felt about Thri-kreen in 2E's Dark Sun. I'm a little sad that they haven't made a PC comeback in 5E yet...

Yes - given the new figures in the miniature line for SKT, you'd have thought...

Ninjadeadbeard

2016-12-23, 01:11 AM

Really want to play a Dwarven Assassin. A Spy Dwarven Assassin. I like the idea of a Dwarf so loyal to his clan that he allowed them to frame him for a murder the clan-head committed, willingly accepting shame, exile, and the knowledge that his name will be scrapped from the family records, all to protect the Clan name.

But I am a Forever DM and none of my players like running 5e. Such is life.

Spacehamster

2016-12-23, 02:40 AM

We have one player that always picks some type of dwarf as his race, got really surprised when he made a variant human last time! 😱

MrConsideration

2016-12-23, 04:27 AM

Dwarves suffer from two flaws that make them unattractive to many players:

1) They're not mechanically brilliant like the Variant Human or Half-Elf.
2) They're not cool in the sexy, fancy way that Tieflings or Elves are. Tieflings are brooding and dark. Elves are wispy and fast. They're not cool in the way Genasi or Minotaurs are. They're not massively alien or strange.

They're cool in a vaguely tragi-comic sort of way. They brood and grumble and drink and build and toil - there's something very reminiscent of a sort of fantasy boomer generation: they endured wars and struggle and toiled so you can have these nice things and now all you do is moan.

I personally love Dwarves. I have a character idea incubating for the next campaign: a teetotal Cleric of the God of Wine who inherited his position form his boozy dad but just wants to eat clean.

(Also, I use my own accent - Yorkshireman - for Dwarves as DM. Therefore all tropes about Yorkshire now belong to my Dwarves also.)

Squiddish

2016-12-23, 08:33 PM

I see few of them, as my group mostly prefers either full-casters or rogues, and our current campaign is the first one where we had a cleric.

With that being said, I am playing a mountain dwarf paladin. It works very well. All of the principal disadvantages are gone. I'm not a pure martial character, but my strength and con boosts are still going to good use (Well, sort of. I'm unoptimized by design, just by virtue of not minmaxing with my point buy). I don't (presently) have any problems with decreased speed, since early on I cast Find Steed, got a warhorse, and have only gotten off of it once since then (because we were using it as a flying taxi).