OOTS #1061 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Forikroder]

surprised he didnt say something like "protection from jumping giants"

[Elkad]

Indiana Jones and an airplane vs the big guy flashbacks!

[TaiLiu]

"OK, now you're just getting unfairly personal." :smallbiggrin:

[AvatarVecna]

Elan's little rhyme cracks me up, but also speaks to a sad little middle schooler in me. :smalltongue:

[Cuthalion]

I wonder if they forge their own axes.

[mouser9169]

Hang in there Elan! You're being Helpful!!!

[Sniffnoy]

Elan's little rhyme cracks me up, but also speaks to a sad little middle schooler in me. :smalltongue:

I can only assume he's trying to prove his 7th-grade teacher wrong about what counts as a rhyme. :P

[AvatarVecna]

I can only assume he's trying to prove his 7th-grade teacher wrong about what counts as a rhyme. :P

Little song, then. :smalltongue: It was amusing regardless.

[Stiletto]

Yeah, rotating metal blades for forward propulsion is a bad idea when you have a giant within easy reach of them. Oh, oh!

[Bongos]

Can't quite figure out if that third giant has managed to hold onto the ship or not...

[Draconi Redfir]

my mind is on the third giant not being able to hold on with his arm chopped to bits like that. Would give Bandanna a good amount of credit that she needs to keep her crew in line. just enough "i made the right choice" to stop an immediate mutany, but not enough to stop one outright.

[danielxcutter]

Good to see that you're back, Mr. Burlow!

[137beth]

Or the Fly wand, for that matter.

[Gift Jeraff]

airplane vs the big guy flashbacks!

I think that was The Dark Knight Rises.

[danielxcutter]

Or the Fly wand, for that matter.

Haley's using it, remember?

By the way, I wonder if Elan has ranks in Use Magic Device. I think it's a class skill for Bards, but we've never seen Elan(or anyone, really, before Haley bought all those wands) use that skill much. The only other person I remember using UMD was the lizardman Rogue(forgot his name) using a Teleport scroll.

[stsasser]

Props to 3rd giant.

[TRH]

Here's hoping this third one won't be holding on for much longer. Speaking of skills, what have we seen from Elan skill-wise? He should have a lot of points as a human bard, even with an Int penalty not being unlikely.

[Toper]

Ha, nobody respects Roy for getting killed by the ground.

I kind of figured they were already at full speed, under the circumstances! I guess that would have caused maneuverability issues, with all the mountains? Given that Bandana is asking the steersperson whether it's OK, that's what I'm going to assume.

I wonder what's up with the third giant? He didn't jump with the others and isn't lumped in with "strongest of the clan". Well, maybe he just decided to time it differently. Looks like he may have lost his axe, but he still might find a way to gum up the engine from there.

[Mic_128]

Here's hoping this third one won't be holding on for much longer.

Is it though? To me it looked like he didn't make it and got his arm slashed on the way down for his efforts.

[KillingAScarab]

Can't quite figure out if that third giant has managed to hold onto the ship or not...I think Andi is going to get to play "This Little Piggie" with this giant.

[Lheticus]

Well, there's a slight stroke of luck. One less problem for the Mechane anyway.

[Jay R]

Can't quite figure out if that third giant has managed to hold onto the ship or not...

I assume he just missed the boat.


Props to 3rd giant.

Cute. But I guess I can't complain, after saying he missed the boat.

[Forikroder]

I assume he just missed the boat.



Cute. But I guess I can't complain, after saying he missed the boat.

i think his arm is stuck on a spike or something

[HUMVEE Driver]

I don't know, this one felt kinda lacking.

[Erys]

I assume he just missed the boat.

The title and the 'whunk' leads me to think he grabbed the back and his arm is getting tore up because of it.

[gallagher]

I really hope those giants fall, and don't survive impact. It would vindicate Roy a little

[Lord Torath]

Elan's little rhyme cracks me up, but also speaks to a sad little middle schooler in me. :smalltongue:I barely even noticed this bit the first time through.


I think that was The Dark Knight Rises.Dang whippersnappers! Don't even remember Indiana Jones vs the German Mechanic! :smallwink:

Thanks, Giant!

[Basement Cat]

At least the 3rd giant lost his ax.

I note that Andi isn't screaming for mutiny. We may have been reading too much into her complaints.

...

Maayyyyyybeeeeee.... :smallconfused:

[KillingAScarab]

I barely even noticed this bit the first time through.

Dang whippersnappers! Don't even remember Indiana Jones vs the German Mechanic! :smallwink:

Thanks, Giant!To be fair, Raiders of the Lost Ark didn't have an airborne fight, just a fight on the ground around a plane. Indiana Jones and Last Crusade at least had someone defenestrated from a zeppelin in it, so I'm inclined to think of that one first. "No ticket!"

[Forikroder]

I barely even noticed this bit the first time through.

Dang whippersnappers! Don't even remember Indiana Jones vs the German Mechanic! :smallwink:

Thanks, Giant!

i dont remember him fighting a german mechanic in crystal skull

[ti'esar]

:roy: Okay, now you're just getting unfairly personal.

:smallbiggrin:

Is that Felix on the helm? I thought he was just a fashion consultant.

[Kareasint]

The propellers have got to hurt since they just increased speed. Bandana's move may have prevented the third one from boarding. Roy has a fairly good fight on his hands.

[Legato Endless]

Heh. I dig Elan pointing out the wands as Batman utility belt level plot devices, but the story just won't let the order truly abuse this.

[JumboWheat01]

Don't worry, Elan, I'm sure a lot of us were crap at the rope climb. Seriously, what was the point to it? And if you fell, it was gonna bloody hurt.

[Bilgore]

Heh. I dig Elan pointing out the wands as Batman utility belt level plot devices, but the story just won't let the order truly abuse this.

Depends on the wands.
One might summon a flumph, for instance...

[Lombard]

Holy Boris Vallejo, Batman! That's the biggest furmail bikini I've ever seen!

[GreatWyrmGold]

That was some convenient timing there with the acceleration. I see the Mechane still has some of Julio's magic in it.


I note that Andi isn't screaming for mutiny. We may have been reading too much into her complaints.
Even if Andi wants to mutiny, she isn't stupid enough to do so in the middle of combat.

[Forikroder]

That was some convenient timing there with the acceleration. I see the Mechane still has some of Julio's magic in it.


Even if Andi wants to mutiny, she isn't stupid enough to do so in the middle of combat.

it dodged that giant right in the nick of time

[BriarHobbit]

It just keeps getting more interesting. I don't see Belkar saving the day. This is going to be up to Roy and Elan. I think Elan is going to have to face that third giant.

[Manty5]

Would it be unfair to point out that Roy is doing better dodging dedicated warriors than Haley was doing dodging clerics?

[Kantaki]

Looks like he may have lost his axe, but he still might find a way to gum up the engine from there.

Somehow I doubt he would like that plan.
Holding bits of yourself into a turning propeller tends to be a bit on the painful side.

[Wanderer]

Props to 3rd giant.

Groooooaaaaannnn.

[8BitNinja]

Don't worry, Elan, I'm sure a lot of us were crap at the rope climb. Seriously, what was the point to it? And if you fell, it was gonna bloody hurt.

It's to test upper body strength and...

Hold on I was just told something

Turns out, there are heavy objects that you can lift to test that.

[Hawkstar]

Would it be unfair to point out that Roy is doing better dodging dedicated warriors than Haley was doing dodging clerics?

Roy has a higher AC than Haley.

[El Dorado]

Elan swinging precariously from a rope with a nearby giant? Yup, I forsee a Dashing Swordsman entrance in the near future.

[Elenna]

Giggled so hard at :elan: Prove, prove, prove, prove my 7th grade gym teacher wrong!
Also :roy: OK, now you're just getting unfairly personal. :smallbiggrin:

[Supermagle]

"There's cling-ons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow..." :smallbiggrin:

[JoeyTheNeko]

as can be observed from the bottom of the comic, the propellers are dicing into the hanging on giants arm. methinks there will be some limb loss shortly on that giants part.

[ratfox]

I don't think the third giant is hanging on to anything. He just missed the boat and got damaged on the way.

I see Roy is still touchy on the subject of falling :smallbiggrin: unfairly personal indeed!

[khadgar567]

correct me if i wrong but did elan just use bardic music on himself cuz that re grab was cluch

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Ooh that looked like it hurt. Meanwhile, I really hope Elan doesn't fall off the rope and prove his gym teacher right.

[Giscard76]

New Favorite lines for Roy and Elan! Yeah!

[Keltest]

To be fair to Roy, there was a Meteor Swarm involved.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Finally, something went conclusively wrong for the antagonists for once.

Frost Giant Warrior #3 doesn't seem to have gripped the aft gunwale of the ship, and even if he did, he's going to have a real tough time fitting between the two propellers without a lot more of the same damage. Not to mention there's two propellers further up he would have to get around to get at Elan and/or the balloon, probably minus an arm by that point. And his axe is now going to be at the bottom of the canyon.

At the same time, Roy seems undamaged and appears to be focusing his attacks on the male warrior on deck. Here's hoping he can keep that up. LOL though at Roy's comment to the female warrior, he of all people would certainly know about the gravity of the situation.

[Kish]

Would it be unfair to point out that Roy is doing better dodging dedicated warriors than Haley was doing dodging clerics?
That probably means something more like "Roy's AC is better against no-class-levels frost giants than Haley's is against frost giants with cleric levels." Even if all three of the ones boarding the Mechane have class levels as well, they all have nine levels of Giant and their greataxe attack bonus before the class levels started at +18, so it would indeed be unfair to act like the situation is anywhere close to comparable to "Roy is facing off against statistical duplicates of Roy while Haley is facing off against statistical duplicates of Durkon."

[Ezekiel]

I'm glad our heroes aren't the only ones who get unpleasant surprises in this fight. I wouldn't want to be that 3rd giant right now. Spinning propeller to the arm has to hurt.

[Quibblicious]

Props to 3rd giant.


I assume he just missed the boat.

Cute. But I guess I can't complain, after saying he missed the boat.

Cutting humor there... I'm sure the giant is awash with pain.


Q

[Quibblicious]

i dont remember him fighting a german mechanic in crystal skull

That movie doesn't exist. It was all just a bad dream.

Q

[KillingAScarab]

Would it be unfair to point out that Roy is doing better dodging dedicated warriors than Haley was doing dodging clerics?The giants can miss Roy all they want and still hit their target. Take another look at the deck where he was standing.

[Toper]

I don't think the third giant is hanging on to anything. He just missed the boat and got damaged on the way.
It's not clear from the art. But the comic's title might change your mind.

[Shining Wrath]

Score one for Bandana - increasing speed to 2/3 full did in fact help a lot.
Also, grins for "unfairly personal" and Elan breaking the fourth wall.

[Keltest]

You know, theres a concern here that nobody has mentioned yet. Propellers hitting things is generally bad for them. Especially big, tough things like Frost Giants. What are they going to do if the engine breaks itself on the giant?

[Shining Wrath]

I wonder if they forge their own axes.

Frost Giants by lore forge NOTHING. They dislike heat, so forging is out. They force slaves to forge for them, or trade for the metal they need. That's also why they tend to not have metal armor.


Props to 3rd giant.

That's kind of you since he's all torn up about Bandana leaving him hanging.

[Shining Wrath]

You know, theres a concern here that nobody has mentioned yet. Propellers hitting things is generally bad for them. Especially big, tough things like Frost Giants. What are they going to do if the engine breaks itself on the giant?

Send Andi down to repair the engine while it's still running. It's her turn to be heroic!

[Borris]

I don't know whether the third giant will fall to his doom or not, but I was just picturing him doing the Wilhelm Scream.

[aurilee]

Captain Bandana FTW :smallsmile:

That third giant may be hanging on, but at least he dropped his axe...

[jdb-44]

Well, there's a slight stroke of luck. One less problem for the Mechane anyway.

Quick question: how in the world is "Mechane" pronounced, anyway?

[Peelee]

Quick question: how in the world is "Mechane" pronounced, anyway?

I figured it sounds like it's spelled. Mek-ayn

[Kish]

I don't know how Rich pronounces it, but I pronounce it Meh-Cane, like "expression of indifference, walking aid."

[aurilee]

Meh-cane is about how I say it as well. The first have is like "mechanical", but then with "ane" at the end instead.

[Syncrogti]

That's kind of you since he's all torn up about Bandana leaving him hanging.

The jokes in this thread are better than the ones in this comic. Great comic by the way, love the giant hanging on the back getting chopped. Is the "2/3 Full" a reference to Galaxy Quest?

[Lombard]

Quick question: how in the world is "Mechane" pronounced, anyway?

Seems Greek to me. (No that's not a pun). In which case the pronunciation would be Meh CAN Ee.

[Bongos]

I figure it's like Mee Cane, you know like the Thee plane!

Look boss!
Mechane, Mechane!

Or...

Och, ah'm gettin' old, where's Mechane?

[M.A.D]

Can't quite figure out if that third giant has managed to hold onto the ship or not...

Traditional Bardic lores dictate that he would have hanged onto one of the ropes, with his weapon gone, so as to provide our bard with a sufficiently difficult challenge against which he shall dramatically triumph despite all odds. Also, it's Hangers On. Plural.


Quick question: how in the world is "Mechane" pronounced, anyway?

For some reasons I pronounced it Meh-Shane.

[DeliaP]

Huh, to me Mechane looks a bit like a french word, so I read it as Meh-Kan (sort of like Mechanical but without the -ical part, only a slightly more back of the throat nasal sound going on with the "Ka").

But now I'm reminded that it's a Greek reference (which I knew, but somehow never processed), then of course it ought to be Meh-KAN-ee.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Don't worry, Elan, I'm sure a lot of us were crap at the rope climb. Seriously, what was the point to it? And if you fell, it was gonna bloody hurt.

Like the rest of PE, it was military calisthenics. Got to be trained on how to get up those cliffs in Italy, not to mention the proper way to scale a cargo net after your ship is sunk.


The jokes in this thread are better than the ones in this comic. Great comic by the way, love the giant hanging on the back getting chopped. Is the "2/3 Full" a reference to Galaxy Quest?

Standard navy speak. Two-thirds of your rated max revolutions (i.e., full ahead).

[littlebum2002]

I don't know how Rich pronounces it, but I pronounce it Meh-Cane, like "expression of indifference, walking aid."

Seconded. If you pronounce it any other way, you're wrong /s

[Peelee]

Seconded. If you pronounce it any other way, you're wrong

I felt the same way about the Windy Valley

[Remedy]

Sometimes I feel like the Giant plots his entire story around being able to make pun titles work, rather than coming up with them after the fact.

[Quibblicious]

Meh-cane is about how I say it as well. The first have is like "mechanical", but then with "ane" at the end instead.

Same here. The long 'a' usually makes the 'ch' sound into more of a 'k' sound in English. The trailing, silent 'e' (ninja 'e' as my daughter's third grade teacher called them) makes the 'a' into a long 'a' as in 'cane'. So "Mechane" would be "Mek-hane".

Long 'e' or 'e' makes 'ch' more an 'sh' sound, hence "machine" being pronounced "ma-sheen".

Can you tell my minors were English and Linguistics?

My major was Computer Science and healthy young co-eds... :smallcool:
Yeah, those two generally didn't work well together... :smallwink:

Q

[Quibblicious]

Seems Greek to me. (No that's not a pun). In which case the pronunciation would be Meh CAN Ee.

Valid point but in English we commonly mispronounce Greek since English generally treats trailing 'e' as a silent vowel.

Historical side note (Ignore it if you wish, just me blathering for a bit):

English is funny that way -- we get it from Norman French after the conquest of 1066.

French and Norman French use a structure where the trailing letter is usually silent, so a name like "Francois" (masculine form) is pronounced "Fran-swaa", and a name like "Francoise" (feminine form), is pronounced "Fran-swaaz". Adding the trailing 'e' causes the last 's' to be pronounced.

It's an interesting form and unusual in that the trailing letter isn't pronounced. English adopted the use of the silent 'e' as a common construct it became a signal for the pronunciation of the vowel, like the difference between 'can' and 'cane'.

Yes, I'm using non-standard notation for pronunciation but most people don't know it and I'm trying to be helpful :smallbiggrin:

Thanks,
Q

[Quibblicious]

I figure it's like Mee Cane, you know like the Thee plane!

Look boss!
Mechane, Mechane!

Or...

Och, ah'm gettin' old, where's Mechane?

That was snort worthy. Good thing I wasn't drinking anything at the time.

Well played.


Q

[Quibblicious]

For some reasons I pronounced it Meh-Shane.

Well, you're wrong...

I kid, I kid... :smallwink:

I could see how that pronunciation could be resolved since the word is very similar to "machine", however I think English pronunciation rules would lead to a slightly different pronunciation.

Did I make my bardic lore check? If I did, then i'm right. Where's the DM?

Q

[Lockmund]

Guess I'm just stealing the pun, but people seem to miss it.

There were three frost giants, but the ship increased speed so it was full after two thirds of that (two giants), thus the third one couldn't get aboard.

[KorvinStarmast]

I wonder if they forge their own axes. Nah, they just grind them.
Props to 3rd giant.Groan.

Given that Bandana is asking the steersperson whether it's OK, that's what I'm going to assume.
The standard nautical and piratical term is helmsman, often shortened to "helm" as in "orders to the helm" when the instructions are lacking or unclear.
That was some convenient timing there with the acceleration. I see the Mechane still has some of Julio's magic in it.Yeah, it's a nice option.
Frost Giant Warrior #3 doesn't seem to have gripped the aft gunwale of the ship I think he'll grab something because Elan is one hanger on, and the strip's title is plural "hangers on" but I'll be happy to be wrong about that. What seems to have happened is the giant grabbed the gunwale, the ship tips aft a bit, Elan's climb is disturbed by the sudden change in angle. Giant takes damage, loses axe, but from how I see his left hand positioned it's on/grabbing the gunwale.

LOL though at Roy's comment to the female warrior, he of all people would certainly know about the gravity of the situation. I see what you did there. Nice one.

That's kind of you since he's all torn up about Bandana leaving him hanging. Ba dump, tsch!
The jokes in this thread are better than the ones in this comic. This strip seems more action than laughs.

Thought: ship speeds up ... leaves Belkar behind?

Thought: Bandana does not panic, but gives orders to the helm (and also solicits the salty old veteran's insight on "will this work?" ) Andi seems to be less calm than Bandana. A good captain remains calm during stressful events, like trying to repel boarders.

Bandana, good job.

[aurilee]

Same here. The long 'a' usually makes the 'ch' sound into more of a 'k' sound in English. The trailing, silent 'e' (ninja 'e' as my daughter's third grade teacher called them) makes the 'a' into a long 'a' as in 'cane'. So "Mechane" would be "Mek-hane".

Long 'e' or 'e' makes 'ch' more an 'sh' sound, hence "machine" being pronounced "ma-sheen".

Can you tell my minors were English and Linguistics?

My major was Computer Science and healthy young co-eds... :smallcool:
Yeah, those two generally didn't work well together... :smallwink:

Q

Yay linguistics!

This also relates to a broader pattern where "a", "u" and "o" generally create "hard" consonant sounds, whereas "e" and "i" create "soft" consonant sounds. A non-"ch" example is gorilla vs. giraffe.

This is also a holdover from Norman (and corresponds to modern French as well) since they would actually just add in silent e's to change the pronunciation (a common practice in older forms of French was to add silent letters to words to indicate pronunciation, some were replaced by accents eventually if the sound being modified was a vowel, but for consonants the extra letter has largely stayed on). A good example that exists in both French and English is "bourgeois". The "e" isn't pronounced at all, it's just there to tell you that the "g" is soft.

All this to say, it's clearly "Mek-hane", like "mechanical". :smallwink:

Of course no language is complete without a barrel full of exceptions. And English is notorious for not giving a flying monkey about rules. But whatever. :smalltongue:

[wumpus]

I really hope those giants fall, and don't survive impact. It would vindicate Roy a little

I'm pretty sure Roy would get to point out the square/cube law to him[/her] on the way down. Of course, I have no idea if the square/cube law holds in OOTSverse, but it would make sense for falling d6/10' [and max] to scale with size the way weapons do.

[aurilee]

I'm pretty sure Roy would get to point out the square/cube law to him[/her] on the way down. Of course, I have no idea if the square/cube law holds in OOTSverse, but it would make sense for falling d6/10' [and max] to scale with size the way weapons do.

Considering the impact of the square/cube law on giant humanoids, I'm going to venture a guess and say that it doesn't apply in the OotSverse.

[Killer Angel]

I wonder if the crew will get full xps for the fallen frost giant. After all, they killed/defeated him by themselves! :smallbiggrin:

[Quibblicious]

Guess I'm just stealing the pun, but people seem to miss it.

There were three frost giants, but the ship increased speed so it was full after two thirds of that (two giants), thus the third one couldn't get aboard.

Nice observation. Well done.

Q

[Quibblicious]

Yay linguistics!

...

Of course no language is complete without a barrel full of exceptions. And English is notorious for not giving a flying monkey about rules. But whatever. :smalltongue:

English is the worst because it's really a mutt/derivative of multiple languages. Anglo and Saxon were similar but had some differences, with a more Germanic sound and grammar. When you slide in Norman French, you get a bunch of contradictory grammar rules that really make it a tough language to learn.

Then you add in all the words, phrases, and pronunciations adopted from the vast expanse of the British Empire and the various territories and their native languages (words like khaki, pajama, kowtow, barbecue, et al., all come from other languages, but are common in modern English), and you have a real hodge-podge that even native speakers have trouble with.

Q

[Anarion]

Well, building up tension is good. Sad that Elan isn't better at regular old climb checks though.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I wonder if the crew will get full xps for the fallen frost giant. After all, they killed/defeated him by themselves! :smallbiggrin:

The consensus seems to be that the third giant hasn't really fallen or been defeated yet. Though perhaps he'll eventually lose his grip and plummet, or he'll get pushed off by the bridge crew who are right in front of him, and if the fall damage doesn't end the frost giant, he's likely to get Doomsealed in short order.

I speculate, though, that for maximum drama this third giant won't be able to make his way up to the balloon to wreck it (and Elan will repair it mostly without interference), but will instead content himself with struggling up onto the bridge deck to wreak even more havoc among the crew. Whatever carnage the last giant causes would probably either instigate a mutiny by further enraging Andi, or end the chance of the same with a successful and fatal blow (whether Andi or Bandana is on the receiving end).

[dtilque]

Whatever carnage the last giant causes would probably either instigate a mutiny by further enraging Andi, or end the chance of the same with a successful and fatal blow (whether Andi or Bandana is on the receiving end).

Don't see either Andi or Bandana dying here. It'd throw away all the mutiny foreshadowing, if nothing else. My guess is that Elan will fix the balloon and then, using his madDashingSwordsman skilz, swings down on a rope and saves them from the giant. Perhaps by giving him even more props.

[wumpus]

Considering the impact of the square/cube law on giant humanoids, I'm going to venture a guess and say that it doesn't apply in the OotSverse.

True. I still think that you should bump up/down a die for each size category on falling damage. It would make as least as much sense as weapon differences.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[8BitNinja]

Elan swinging precariously from a rope with a nearby giant? Yup, I forsee a Dashing Swordsman entrance in the near future.

Or he could climb up to the mainsail and yell "Hey you guys" before using a knife to slow his fall.

I don't care if there isn't a mainsail. That charisma modifier will make it happen.

[rambaldi]

The jokes in this thread are better than the ones in this comic. Great comic by the way, love the giant hanging on the back getting chopped. Is the "2/3 Full" a reference to Galaxy Quest?

No idea, but maybe it is a reference to there being 2/3 of the giants left that were attacking the ship as a result.

[Erzengel]

On whom is that axe going to land?

[8BitNinja]

English is the worst because it's really a mutt/derivative of multiple languages. Anglo and Saxon were similar but had some differences, with a more Germanic sound and grammar. When you slide in Norman French, you get a bunch of contradictory grammar rules that really make it a tough language to learn.

Then you add in all the words, phrases, and pronunciations adopted from the vast expanse of the British Empire and the various territories and their native languages (words like khaki, pajama, kowtow, barbecue, et al., all come from other languages, but are common in modern English), and you have a real hodge-podge that even native speakers have trouble with.

Q

Wow, bardic lore covers even the history of languages?

You bards really do have everything.

[F.Harr]

Wow, bardic lore covers even the history of languages?

Quote Originally Posted by Quibbilcious View Post
English is the worst because it's really a mutt/derivative of multiple languages. Anglo and Saxon were similar but had some differences, with a more Germanic sound and grammar. When you slide in Norman French, you get a bunch of contradictory grammar rules that really make it a tough language to learn.

Then you add in all the words, phrases, and pronunciations adopted from the vast expanse of the British Empire and the various territories and their native languages (words like khaki, pajama, kowtow, barbecue, et al., all come from other languages, but are common in modern English), and you have a real hodge-podge that even native speakers have trouble with.

Q

You bards really do have everything.

It wasn't "Anglo and Saxon" it was "Anglo-Saxon". That is, the English Saxons to distinguish themselves from the European Saxons. They didn't start calling themselves "English" until later. The Angles Saxons and Jutes thing just meant that they weren't ONLY Low-Saxon speakers, but they were mainly Low Saxon speaker. Also, there's a good deal of Old Norse and some influence Brittonic in there too. And don't forget the Latinization fad of the 18th and 19th centuries!

But to the comic, Yay Speed!

Go Roy!

Go Elan!

How's Vaarsuvious and Haley going to catch up now?!?!?!?!

[Deathhappens]

Quick question: how in the world is "Mechane" pronounced, anyway?

Huh. I guess I was probably the only one pronouncing it "Meh-shane".

EDIT:
Huh, to me Mechane looks a bit like a french word, so I read it as Meh-Kan (sort of like Mechanical but without the -ical part, only a slightly more back of the throat nasal sound going on with the "Ka").

But now I'm reminded that it's a Greek reference (which I knew, but somehow never processed), then of course it ought to be Meh-KAN-ee.


It is? What exactly would it be referencing, then? Deus Ex Machina? Because that would probably make it Latin.

[Algeh]

It is? What exactly would it be referencing, then? Deus Ex Machina? Because that would probably make it Latin.

I've been pronouncing it as though it were a mangled-Latin plural of machina (Ive been pronouncing it maw-keen-nay, more or less), because apparently I mis-read it as Machinae rather than Mechane many years ago and never really thought about it again until now.

My mental pronunciation of things is often pretty off, though. It makes it kind of awkward to discuss books with people in person since I will probably mangle at least one character name badly.

[NeeL]

On whom is that axe going to land?

The one with the Flumph avatar is the first one to be bothered with that falling axe. :smallbiggrin:

[hroþila]

It wasn't "Anglo and Saxon" it was "Anglo-Saxon"
Angles and Saxons spoke distinct dialects all the way through the Anglo-Saxon period.

[Peelee]

Honestly, I think the Angles were right.

[Quibblicious]

Wow, bardic lore covers even the history of languages?

You bards really do have everything.

Bardic lore covers everything.

And we really do have everything... that's why we get all the girls of a moral character that's not up to Paladin standards.

Q

[Quibblicious]

It wasn't "Anglo and Saxon" it was "Anglo-Saxon". That is, the English Saxons to distinguish themselves from the European Saxons. They didn't start calling themselves "English" until later. The Angles Saxons and Jutes thing just meant that they weren't ONLY Low-Saxon speakers, but they were mainly Low Saxon speaker. Also, there's a good deal of Old Norse and some influence Brittonic in there too. And don't forget the Latinization fad of the 18th and 19th centuries!

But to the comic, Yay Speed!

Go Roy!

Go Elan!

How's Vaarsuvious and Haley going to catch up now?!?!?!?!

I separated the Angles and Saxons because there are some dialectic differences, but you are correct that they are Low-Saxon language family and basically the same tongue.

Thanks for adding in the Old Norse and Brittonic; I left them out to try and keep it simple for the non-language nerds :smallsmile:

The Latinization trend was interesting in the long term effects and the way it helped bring Classical studies back into the forefront of common knowledge. It's a shame that trend seems to be reversing.

Vaarsuvius and Haley will catch up just fine; the top speed of a fly spell is pretty good, plus they've got the added advantage of plot necessity.


Q

[Quibblicious]

The one with the Flumph avatar is the first one to be bothered with that falling axe. :smallbiggrin:

I get the feeling he's supposed to be somewhere...

Q

[War-Wren]

"There's cling-ons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow..." :smallbiggrin:

I think he's cling-on the back of the poop deck, isn't he? :smallwink:

[Quibblicious]

I think he's cling-on the back of the poop deck, isn't he? :smallwink:

That joke stinks. :smallwink:

Q

[Tetrimino]

I don't think the Mechane follows English pronunciation rules. Presumably, it was named by Julio, and Julio Scoundrel definitely isn't an English name.

[Shining Wrath]

I don't think the Mechane follows English pronunciation rules. Presumably, it was named by Julio, and Julio Scoundrel definitely isn't an English name.

Agreed. Julio Scoundrel with an accent on the 'e' is Spanish. That would make the 'h' in "Mechane" silent. "Maw-cane" might be close.

[8BitNinja]

It wasn't "Anglo and Saxon" it was "Anglo-Saxon". That is, the English Saxons to distinguish themselves from the European Saxons. They didn't start calling themselves "English" until later. The Angles Saxons and Jutes thing just meant that they weren't ONLY Low-Saxon speakers, but they were mainly Low Saxon speaker. Also, there's a good deal of Old Norse and some influence Brittonic in there too. And don't forget the Latinization fad of the 18th and 19th centuries!

But to the comic, Yay Speed!

Go Roy!

Go Elan!

How's Vaarsuvious and Haley going to catch up now?!?!?!?!

Welcome to Giant in the Playground! Where a thread about a Dungeons & Dragons webcomic eventually details into a heated debate about linguistics.

[aurilee]

English is the worst because it's really a mutt/derivative of multiple languages. Anglo and Saxon were similar but had some differences, with a more Germanic sound and grammar. When you slide in Norman French, you get a bunch of contradictory grammar rules that really make it a tough language to learn.

Then you add in all the words, phrases, and pronunciations adopted from the vast expanse of the British Empire and the various territories and their native languages (words like khaki, pajama, kowtow, barbecue, et al., all come from other languages, but are common in modern English), and you have a real hodge-podge that even native speakers have trouble with.

Q

In other words, English is a lot of fun for a linguist. :smallbiggrin:

Although as far as learning English goes, I prefer a quote from a friend of my parents' (she was a native French speaker): "English is the easiest language to learn because you can just make it up and no one cares".

English is so weird and convoluted we've become accustomed to a certain amount of imperfection. This is very different from learning a more consistently-structured language like French, where I'd use bad syntax or mis-conjugate a verb and get funny looks and people would (at least pretend to...) not understand.


True. I still think that you should bump up/down a die for each size category on falling damage. It would make as least as much sense as weapon differences.

If there's one thing I've learned about fall damage, it's to simply not discuss it and pretend it makes sense.


Honestly, I think the Angles were right.

*slow clap*

[Rogar Demonblud]

"There's cling-ons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow..." :smallbiggrin:

Stick Trekking across the universe...:smallwink:

And I always pronounce Mechane to rhyme with Arcane, since it's powered by plot magic (the most powerful magic there is!).

[hroþila]

Agreed. Julio Scoundrel with an accent on the 'e' is Spanish. That would make the 'h' in "Mechane" silent. "Maw-cane" might be close.
"Scoundrél" is not Spanish. If it were a Spanish word (notwithstanding its non-Spanish phonology), the e wouldn't be accented, assuming that the accent the original name simply marks the stress. Presumably it's just a non-standard diacritic to suggest that his name is stressed on the last syllable, not on the first like in English. But it might well be some vaguely French flourishing. Julio is meant to be Hispanic, but that doesn't mean his surname is Spanish. I bet it's a stage name anyway. And the h wouldn't be silent if "Mechane" was a Spanish word, because <ch> is a digraph (pronounced more or less the same as in English).

There's no doubt that "Mechane" is a Latinization of Greek μηχανή (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%B7%CF%87%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AE#Ancient_Greek ), as in ἀπὸ μηχανῆς θεός, whence Latin Deus ex machina. It already exists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechane) as a specialized loanword in English and is probably pronounced as noted in that article: /ˈmɛkəniː/, (MECKanee).

Me, I just pronounce it as I would in Spanish: /meˈkane/.

[Tetrimino]

"Scoundrél" is not Spanish. If it were a Spanish word (notwithstanding its non-Spanish phonology), the e wouldn't be accented, assuming that the accent the original name simply marks the stress. Presumably it's just a non-standard diacritic to suggest that his name is stressed on the last syllable, not on the first like in English. But it might well be some vaguely French flourishing. Julio is meant to be Hispanic, but that doesn't mean his surname is Spanish. I bet it's a stage name anyway. And the h wouldn't be silent if "Mechane" was a Spanish word, because <ch> is a digraph (pronounced more or less the same as in English).

There's no doubt that "Mechane" is a Latinization of Greek μηχανή (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%B7%CF%87%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AE#Ancient_Greek ), as in ἀπὸ μηχανῆς θεός, whence Latin Deus ex machina. It already exists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechane) as a specialized loanword in English and is probably pronounced as noted in that article: /ˈmɛkəniː/, (MECKanee).

Me, I just pronounce it as I would in Spanish: /meˈkane/.

I wouldn't know about the Spanish pronounciation, I never learned Spanish. I do know Latin however, and I can say that the Latin pronunciation sounds right in this context.

[Peelee]

I wouldn't know about the Spanish pronounciation, I never learned Spanish. I do know Latin however, and I can say that the Latin pronunciation sounds right in this context.

Pronunciation.

[Jasdoif]

I wouldn't know about the Spanish pronounciation, I never learned Spanish.Pronunciation.I think Spanish pronounciation is like me, yo, el, ella, nosotros....It's been a couple decades since I took Spanish classes, though.

[littlebum2002]

I think Spanish pronounciation is like me, yo, el, ella, nosotros....It's been a couple decades since I took Spanish classes, though.

Pronouncing Spanish is easy, since with only a few exceptions, every letter always sounds the same. In other words, the exact opposite of learning to pronounce english.

[Sir_Norbert]

I've been pronouncing it as though it were a mangled-Latin plural of machina (Ive been pronouncing it maw-keen-nay, more or less), because apparently I mis-read it as Machinae rather than Mechane many years ago and never really thought about it again until now.

ae is never pronounced "ay" in Latin. It was pronounced "eye" by the Romans, and is "ee" in anglicised Latin. The "ay" misconception is probably due to English having loanwords from other languages, such as Gaelic, in which "ay" is correct.

[KillingAScarab]

I think Spanish pronounciation is like me, yo, el, ella, nosotros....It's been a couple decades since I took Spanish classes, though.I approve of this wordplay. I wish I had more to add than just that, but all I have is my Spanish-to-English dictionary which offers "mechánico" and "mechánica," but no pronunciation guide.

[8BitNinja]

I wouldn't know about the Spanish pronounciation, I never learned Spanish. I do know Latin however, and I can say that the Latin pronunciation sounds right in this context.

To me, this sounds like "Yeah, I never learned to swim or ride a bike or swim, but I can fly a Space Shuttle and F-16"

[factotum]

To me, this sounds like "Yeah, I never learned to swim or ride a bike or swim, but I can fly a Space Shuttle and F-16"

It isn't quite as disconnected as that. Spanish is a Romance language, and as such it evolved from Latin, so you might expect some of the pronunciation to be similar. It's not like English, which is a Germanic language and thus has a different basis in pronunciation from Latin.

[Peelee]

It isn't quite as disconnected as that. Spanish is a Romance language, and as such it evolved from Latin, so you might expect some of the pronunciation to be similar. It's not like English, which is a Germanic language and thus has a different basis in pronunciation from Latin.

It's always weird to hear it as "Romance language" instead of "Romantic language."

[Shining Wrath]

I think the people who pronounce "vingt" and "vin" alike should not lecture English speakers about their language making sense.

[aurilee]

I think the people who pronounce "vingt" and "vin" alike should not lecture English speakers about their language making sense.

First of all, depending on the dialect there is a slight difference.

And in general, French pronunciation is more consistent than in English.

At least, that's what I thought throughout my thorough inspection of the tough trough that is the English dictionary. But then, I didn't get through the whole thing when I got lost in a hole of fun phonetics with the knights that ride kites in the night up to high heights. :smalltongue:

[M.A.D]

I have always imagined Julio to have an Italian accent. He reminds me of Casanova. How do you pronounce Mechane in Italian anyway?


Huh. I guess I was probably the only one pronouncing it "Meh-shane".


That makes two of us lol.

[8BitNinja]

It isn't quite as disconnected as that. Spanish is a Romance language, and as such it evolved from Latin, so you might expect some of the pronunciation to be similar. It's not like English, which is a Germanic language and thus has a different basis in pronunciation from Latin.

Oh, okay.

It might just be the fact that I know Spanish, but not Latin.

[Peelee]

Oh, okay.

It might just be the fact that I know Spanish, but not Latin.

If you know spanish, you know more Latin than you think. I'm basically the opposite of you here.

[Tetrimino]

To me, this sounds like "Yeah, I never learned to swim or ride a bike or swim, but I can fly a Space Shuttle and F-16"

Also, it's entirely possible to learn to fly without learning to ride a bike. Kind of like learning how to drive a boat without learning how to drive a car.

[Snails]

It's always weird to hear it as "Romance language" instead of "Romantic language."

That always struck me as weird, too. But trudging through the history of the word "romance"...


Middle English (originally denoting the vernacular language of France as opposed to Latin): from Old French romanz, based on Latin Romanicus ‘Roman.’

[candybarsuvius]

Hey everybody, it's clear than the ship was named after illustrious Arizona senator John Mechane. So that's how you pronounce it: "who-cares."

[Lombard]

My headcanon: Julio's accent and appearance are very similar to Antonio Banderas. That being said, I'm not convinced this would result in a Spanish pronunciation of Mechane but if it did it would be Meh CON eh. Which has been how I have heard it in my head all along, I just figured I probably had it wrong.

[8BitNinja]

Also, it's entirely possible to learn to fly without learning to ride a bike. Kind of like learning how to drive a boat without learning how to drive a car.

I know it's possible, but the idea was that I thought that Spanish was easier to learn than Latin.

[Kornaki]

I know it's possible, but the idea was that I thought that Spanish was easier to learn than Latin.

Basically equally easy, the languages are very similar. It's probably easier to become fluent in Spanish because it's not a dead language but other than that.

[8BitNinja]

Basically equally easy, the languages are very similar. It's probably easier to become fluent in Spanish because it's not a dead language but other than that.

Well, I learned that Latin isn't that hard.

The more you know.

[Boring McReader]

Looks like they're initiating the "getting the hell out of here" maneuver.

[8BitNinja]

Looks like they're initiating the "getting the hell out of here" maneuver.

That's a hard maneuver when you don't have a vehicle or animal to escape with.

You can't use the Mechane to escape, the bad guys are all on it.

[Tetrimino]

Basically equally easy, the languages are very similar. It's probably easier to become fluent in Spanish because it's not a dead language but other than that.

That's more or less true. Latin students mostly just learn to read Latin and translate it into English, since there isn't really any need to speak or write in Latin. Incidentally, that could be an argument that Latin is easier to learn than Spanish.

[Peelee]

That's more or less true. Latin students mostly just learn to read Latin and translate it into English, since there isn't really any need to speak or write in Latin. Incidentally, that could be an argument that Latin is easier to learn than Spanish.

And not needing to translate into the language creates unique effects. For instance, in my senior year of high scool, we were translating Julius Caesar's memoirs on his Gallic campaign, but I couldn't tell you how to say "the tree is green" in Latin.

[candybarsuvius]

And not needing to translate into the language creates unique effects. For instance, in my senior year of high scool, we were translating Julius Caesar's memoirs on his Gallic campaign, but I couldn't tell you how to say "the tree is green" in Latin.

I took four years of Latin in high school (strange, I know), and at some point, my teacher started teaching the class in Latin. I was also taking four years of German at the same time and my teacher started teaching us in German. The effect was that pretty soon, I was actually thinking in those two languages. When I translated "alea jacta est" into "der grosse Wurf ist gelugt" without stopping off at the English station, I knew I had arrived. Where that was, I'm not sure...

Anyway, I maintain that the airship was named after Senator John Mechane.

[8BitNinja]

Anyway, I maintain that the airship was named after Senator John Mechane.

Some say that he was an airhead, but I say he took Arizona to new heights.

[danielxcutter]

Some say that he was an airhead, but I say he took Arizona to new heights.

No! Up is dowm, black is white, paladins are making jokes! What has become of this world?

[KillingAScarab]

No! Up is dowm, black is white, paladins are making jokes! What has become of this world?We are talking about an airship which became famous by being owned by a pun master. It seems entirely appropriate to me that a paladin in contact with that would spread the "good" word.

[danielxcutter]

We are talking about an airship which became famous by being owned by a pun master. It seems entirely appropriate to me that a paladin in contact with that would spread the "good" word.

Argh. Good one.

[8BitNinja]

We are talking about an airship which became famous by being owned by a pun master. It seems entirely appropriate to me that a paladin in contact with that would spread the "good" word.

The boat is ruled by puns, good and law overlap this time.

[danielxcutter]

The boat is ruled by puns, good and law overlap this time.

AAAAARGH

Okay, that was a nice pun as well.

[8BitNinja]

AAAAARGH

Okay, that was a nice pun as well.

Thank you, if you want to have some cheeky puns as well, just stand around a bard for about a half an hour.

[keybounce]

good
Law

Lets overlap those.

GooD
lAW_

Gawd

Gawd, it's pun time.

[8BitNinja]

good
Law

Lets overlap those.

GooD
lAW_

Gawd

Gawd, it's pun time.

It makes sense now

Good and Law combined is Gawd

Gawd is the phoenetic spelling of God

God has three letters

Law + Good has seven letters

7+3=10

I have no idea where I'm going with this.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I have no idea where I'm going with this.

Then you're among friends here, because neither does anyone else! :smalltongue:

[8BitNinja]

Then you're among friends here, because neither does anyone else! :smalltongue:

It's great to see I have something in common with all of you here.

[TheNecrocomicon]

It's great to see I have something in common with all of you here.

Bet you don't hear that too often as a paladin! :smallwink:

Mind you, I play a cleric, so I'm standing on rather holey ground to make that statement.

[Peelee]

Bet you don't hear that too often as a paladin! :smallwink:

Mind you, I play a cleric, so I'm standing on rather holey ground to make that statement.

That was a wholly unnecessary pun.

[Dizz'zee]

It makes sense now

Good and Law combined is Gawd

Gawd is the phoenetic spelling of God

God has three letters

Law + Good has seven letters

7+3=10

I have no idea where I'm going with this.

You were close, you just got lost on the way. Law and good have 7 letters and jehovah is a 7 letter version of God. :)

[Rogar Demonblud]

And seven is a 'perfect' number, being a prime and all.

[8BitNinja]

You were close, you just got lost on the way. Law and good have 7 letters and jehovah is a 7 letter version of God. :)


And seven is a 'perfect' number, being a prime and all.

So I was onto something, but I overshot.

It all comes full circle.

[Peelee]

And seven is a 'perfect' number, being a prime and all.

One is a pluperfect number, being neither prime nor composite.

[Jasdoif]

What? Seven's deficient...and one is right out.

Now, six is a perfect number, because its factors other than itself (1, 2, 3) add up to itself.

[Peelee]

What? Seven's deficient...and one is right out.

Now, six is a perfect number, because its factors other than itself (1, 2, 3) add up to itself.

Psh. You have to exlude a factor. Now one, all of its factors add up to itself

[8BitNinja]

What? Seven's deficient...and one is right out.

Now, six is a perfect number, because its factors other than itself (1, 2, 3) add up to itself.

But 6 can be divided, aka destroyed.

Perfection cannot be truly destroyed.

(Please do not turn this into a serious argument, it's just a joke.)

[KillingAScarab]

But 6 can be divided, aka destroyed.

Perfection cannot be truly destroyed.

(Please do not turn this into a serious argument, it's just a joke.)But, wait, the strip number this thread was started for contains both 6 and 1... and if you add all of those numbers together you get 7 if you only include uniques. 8 if you include duplicates.

I don't know where else to go with this.

*jumps off the thread*

[8BitNinja]

But, wait, the strip number this thread was started for contains both 6 and 1... and if you add all of those numbers together you get 7 if you only include uniques. 8 if you include duplicates.

I don't know where else to go with this.

*jumps off the thread*

I think we should stop with all the Illuminati confirmed stuff

[Snails]

Perfection cannot be truly destroyed.


Should not Perfection possess every possibly useful characteristic, including both the ability to be truly destroyed and the ability to never be truly destroyed?

[nyjastul69]

Perfection can not be destroyed because it does not exist.

[8BitNinja]

Should not Perfection possess every possibly useful characteristic, including both the ability to be truly destroyed and the ability to never be truly destroyed?

So

A factotum?

[keybounce]

What have I started?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Our latest distracting discussion while Rich works on making the next strip as awesome as Giantly possible?

[8BitNinja]

What have I started?

It's okay, I've caused greater catastrophes here.

[Kish]

What have I started?
Nothing. The "paladin" randomness this thread was started by 8-Bit-Ninja and seconded by danielxcutter; you didn't post until it was already seven posts into taking over the thread.

[8BitNinja]

Nothing. The "paladin" randomness this thread was started by 8-Bit-Ninja and seconded by danielxcutter; you didn't post until it was already seven posts into taking over the thread.

I was the first to derail the thread. I'm not sure if I should be happy about that.

[JumboWheat01]

I was the first to derail the thread. I'm not sure if I should be happy about that.

Sounds like you should take some time in prayer and think about what you did. Unless you follow a god of comedy, in which case, carry on.

[8BitNinja]

Sounds like you should take some time in prayer and think about what you did. Unless you follow a god of comedy, in which case, carry on.

I don't follow a god of comedy, so I'm going to spend some time in prayer.

[keybounce]

Hail Banjo!

[8BitNinja]

Hail Banjo!

Now all sanity has been completely lost.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, Giggles is the God of Comedy.

[Kish]

Giggles is the god of slapstick.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Which is a form of comedy. Banjo is God of Puppets, which only reaches comedy once the High Priestship is taken by Jose Jalapeno on a stick.

[factotum]

Which is a form of comedy.

Which still doesn't make Banjo God of Comedy, any more than Thrym is god of all Giants just because he happens to be god of Frost Giants.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Banjo is God of Puppets, which only reaches comedy once the High Priestship is taken by Jose Jalapeno on a stick.

Then would Walter be the chief prophet, and Achmed their go-to guy for any holy crusades?

Come to think of it, Achmed must be a lich, or possibly a death knight.

[Jay R]

Banjo has one worshipper. He is the god of Elan.

Giggles is the god of a tribe of island orcs.

[Shining Wrath]

I must point out the obvious to you Int-dump-stats dolts.

P.A.L.A.D.I.N. Count the letters. Paladins are the prime representatives of the Lawful Good gods on the Prime Material Plane.

Two pages into a thread on kabalistic numerology and divinity launched by a paladin and no one notices this?

You all disappoint me. You, and you, and you.

Sighs deeply

[aurilee]

I must point out the obvious to you Int-dump-stats dolts.

P.A.L.A.D.I.N. Count the letters. Paladins are the prime representatives of the Lawful Good gods on the Prime Material Plane.

Two pages into a thread on kabalistic numerology and divinity launched by a paladin and no one notices this?

You all disappoint me. You, and you, and you.

Sighs deeply

Time for some fun:

P = 16
A = 1
L = 12
A = 1
D = 4
I = 9
N = 14

Added together, that equals 57 (not a prime), but, if you divide by 3 (a prime number) you get 19 (also a prime number). This is significant because:

L = 12
A = 1
W = 23

G = 7
O = 15
O = 15
D = 4

If you add all those together, you get 77. That's also two prime numbers multiplied. Also further instances of the number 7.

Now, 77 (for numerology purposes) can be considered significant as 14 (7+7) and 57 as 12 (5+7). If you add those together you get 26, which is also the result of multiplication of 2 prime numbers.

Conclusion? Paladins are the mixing of 2 primes. As Shining Wrath pointed to.

Bonus: LAW = 36, which is a square. Yep :smallcool:

[factotum]

That's also two prime numbers multiplied.

I don't like to rain on your parade, but it's a fundamental axiom in mathematics that *all* numbers are either prime numbers, or can be created by multiplying primes together... :smallsmile:

[aurilee]

I don't like to rain on your parade, but it's a fundamental axiom in mathematics that *all* numbers are either prime numbers, or can be created by multiplying primes together... :smallsmile:

The idea was that their only factors were prime numbers, and that only 2 prime numbers were required. Which isn't universal.

Also I'm doing this off the top of my head, so it's possible that my above statement isn't actually true for these numbers (57, 77 and 26), but I'm fairly certain that it is.

[nleseul]

I don't like to rain on your parade, but it's a fundamental axiom in mathematics that *all* numbers are either prime numbers, or can be created by multiplying primes together... :smallsmile:

All integers greater than 1.

[Peelee]

I don't like to rain on your parade, but it's a fundamental axiom in mathematics that *all* numbers are either prime numbers, or can be created by multiplying primes together... :smallsmile:

1.

Wheeeeeeeee!

[Doug Lampert]

I don't like to rain on your parade, but it's a fundamental axiom in mathematics that *all* numbers are either prime numbers, or can be created by multiplying primes together... :smallsmile:
All integers greater than 1.

Also, it's not an axiom, it's a theorem. Specifically, it's part of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic.

Axioms are things assumed, theorems are things proven from axioms. You can prove the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, in fact, the part being cited here is pretty well a direct consequence of the definition of prime numbers and a minimal set of axioms to allow arithmetic logic and integer numbers to even exist.

It's the uniqueness that's the interesting part of the proof.


In number theory, the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, also called the unique factorization theorem or the unique-prime-factorization theorem, states that every integer greater than 1 either is prime itself or is the product of prime numbers, and that this product is unique, up to the order of the factors.

[Shining Wrath]

Aurilee's work is still interesting because clearly Law and Good are the products of only two primes. For example, 30 = 2x3x5, so it is not a Lawful Good number. In short, LG people believe in producing children through lifetime monogamy of two primes. Paladins, therefore, are sticks-in-the-mud about some matters.

We are getting close to a Unified Paladin Theory, people! Keep pressing!

[danielxcutter]

How the topic of this thread shifted from frost giants to proving that Lawful beings are squares by converting letters into numbers, I'll never understand.

[Shining Wrath]

How the topic of this thread shifted from frost giants to proving that Lawful beings are squares by converting letters into numbers, I'll never understand.

New to the Internet?

[JumboWheat01]

How the topic of this thread shifted from frost giants to proving that Lawful beings are squares by converting letters into numbers, I'll never understand.

Chaotic beings happened. Can never tell what's going to happen when a Chaotic being shows up, much less several.

[danielxcutter]

Chaotic beings happened. Can never tell what's going to happen when a Chaotic being shows up, much less several.

Oh, you can tell.

Mayhem.

[Shining Wrath]

Oh, you can tell.

Mayhem.

Arioch! Arioch! I give you blood ... and souls!

Possibly the best battle cry ever. Up there with "Crom! Count the dead!" and "Axes of the dwarves! The dwarves are upon you!".

[8BitNinja]

Oh, you can tell.

Mayhem.

That's why when a man of chaos passes, the police are not far behind.

[Centaur]

All integers greater than 1.


1.

1 is the product of an empty multiset of primes; it’s no exception to the theorem.

[Peelee]

1 is the product of an empty multiset of primes; it’s no exception to the theorem.

See, this is some straight-up shenanigans here. If the multiset is empty, then there ain't no primes to be had. QED, math world. I'll take my damn Fields Medal.

[aurilee]

Chaotic beings happened. Can never tell what's going to happen when a Chaotic being shows up, much less several.

FUN FACT:

Chaos and Party both of have 5 letters.

Just sayin'


Aurilee's work is still interesting because clearly Law and Good are the products of only two primes. For example, 30 = 2x3x5, so it is not a Lawful Good number. In short, LG people believe in producing children through lifetime monogamy of two primes. Paladins, therefore, are sticks-in-the-mud about some matters.

We are getting close to a Unified Paladin Theory, people! Keep pressing!

"L" and "G" specifically have some interesting properties.

L = 12
G = 7

Now 12-7=5. What's 5? Oh..."E".

SO L = G+E

Or, L - E = G

In other words, according to the Unified Paladin Theory, Law can only be Good in the absence of Evil. Thus explaining why Paladins must be Good and Lawful, because they believe that for true lawfulness to be achieved, evil must be eradicated.

Or something. :smalltongue:

(obviously, the LE folks would be more inclined to the L - G = E philosophy, but that's another argument...)

And naturally, C fits nowhere in this equation ^_^

[Doug Lampert]

See, this is some straight-up shenanigans here. If the multiset is empty, then there ain't no primes to be had. QED, math world. I'll take my damn Fields Medal.

You can rephrase so that 1 fits the fundamental theorem of arithmetic using all the primes that are not factors being factors "0" times and the decomposition being represented by an ordered sequence of exponents for the ordered set of all primes.

Then all positive integers are products of the set of primes with each prime raised to some non-negative integer power (and all positive integers have a unique expression as such, and all such expressions with only a finite number of non-zero entries correspond to a unique integer).

It even naturally extends to the non-zero rationals by allowing negative exponents. Which is kind of nice if you're an ancient Greek and don't believe in irrational or imaginary numbers.

But the theorem dates to the Greeks, who, AFAIK, had no concept of the zeroth power, and really didn't like infinite sequences (although they might have accepted one where all but a finite number of elements are zero, but then they'd have not seen the point). So that's not how the theorem is phrased.

[Peelee]

You can rephrase so that 1 fits the fundamental theorem of arithmetic using all the primes that are not factors being factors "0" times and the decomposition being represented by an ordered sequence of exponents for the ordered set of all primes.

Then all positive integers are products of the set of primes with each prime raised to some non-negative integer power (and all positive integers have a unique expression as such, and all such expressions with only a finite number of non-zero entries correspond to a unique integer).

It even naturally extends to the non-zero rationals by allowing negative exponents. Which is kind of nice if you're an ancient Greek and don't believe in irrational or imaginary numbers.

But the theorem dates to the Greeks, who, AFAIK, had no concept of the zeroth power, and really didn't like infinite sequences (although they might have accepted one where all but a finite number of elements are zero, but then they'd have not seen the point). So that's not how the theorem is phrased.

I can rephrase so that a fork fits in the spoon drawer, but that won't help me eat my soup.

I kid. Thanks for the explanation!

[St Fan]

Sheesh, you guys can REALLY get easily bored while awaiting for a new comic...

[Doug Lampert]

Sheesh, you guys can REALLY get easily bored while awaiting for a new comic...

B.S. Physics and Math (and you know what B.S. Stands for).
M.S. Math (finished all work for one in physics too, but at that time I expected the Ph.D. to be physics) (And M.S. stands for more of the same)
Ph.D. Applied Math with a minor in Physics (Ph.D. is of course: Piled higher and deeper)

I spent YEARS compulsively doing stuff FAR more obscure than this as part of my desperate efforts to avoid the real world.

[aurilee]

B.S. Physics and Math (and you know what B.S. Stands for).
M.S. Math (finished all work for one in physics too, but at that time I expected the Ph.D. to be physics) (And M.S. stands for more of the same)
Ph.D. Applied Math with a minor in Physics (Ph.D. is of course: Piled higher and deeper)

I spent YEARS compulsively doing stuff FAR more obscure than this as part of my desperate efforts to avoid the real world.

And here I was, about to reply "doing math on the internet is how I avoid doing my real job". You win sir. :smalltongue:

[Kantaki]

FUN FACT:

Chaos and Party both of have 5 letters.

Just sayin'



"L" and "G" specifically have some interesting properties.

L = 12
G = 7

Now 12-7=5. What's 5? Oh..."E".

SO L = G+E

Or, L - E = G

In other words, according to the Unified Paladin Theory, Law can only be Good in the absence of Evil. Thus explaining why Paladins must be Good and Lawful, because they believe that for true lawfulness to be achieved, evil must be eradicated.

Or something. :smalltongue:

(obviously, the LE folks would be more inclined to the L - G = E philosophy, but that's another argument...)

And naturally, C fits nowhere in this equation ^_^

Well, duh.
A equation is math.
Math is rules.
Rules are lawful.
Lawful and chaotic don't mix.*
Therefore you can't fit Chaos in something lawful.:smallamused:

*Okay, they do, but they neutralize each other. Unless there's more of one.
Basic Chemistry.
And Chemistry is...
Chaotic. Because explosions.:smallbiggrin:

[aurilee]

Well, duh.
A equation is math.
Math is rules.
Rules are lawful.
Lawful and chaotic don't mix.*
Therefore you can't fit Chaos in something lawful.:smallamused:

*Okay, they do, but they neutralize each other. Unless there's more of one.
Basic Chemistry.
And Chemistry is...
Chaotic. Because explosions.:smallbiggrin:

Ah chemistry...on the first day of my high school chem class, my teacher dropping a good chunk of sodium into water (and then complained that they aren't allowed to use potassium anymore). I was instantly sold on the subject. :smallamused:

And yes, chemistry is all about entropy, catabolism and other such fun things. It's definitely on the chaotic side of things.

Unless it's organic chemistry. Those naming conventions are clearly the unholy work of some dreadful lawful.

[Shining Wrath]

Three people were arguing about which of their professions was the oldest.

Carpenter: "In the beginning, God formed the earth, so builders came first".
Architect: "But the earth was originally formless and void, and needed to be raised out of chaos, so architects came first".
Programmer: "And where did the chaos come from? I win!"

[8BitNinja]

FUN FACT:

Chaos and Party both of have 5 letters.

Just sayin'



"L" and "G" specifically have some interesting properties.

L = 12
G = 7

Now 12-7=5. What's 5? Oh..."E".

SO L = G+E

Or, L - E = G

In other words, according to the Unified Paladin Theory, Law can only be Good in the absence of Evil. Thus explaining why Paladins must be Good and Lawful, because they believe that for true lawfulness to be achieved, evil must be eradicated.

Or something. :smalltongue:

(obviously, the LE folks would be more inclined to the L - G = E philosophy, but that's another argument...)

And naturally, C fits nowhere in this equation ^_^

Welcome to the internet, the only place where math and philosophy will combine.

[Tetrimino]

Welcome to the internet, the only place where math and philosophy will combine.

Not true, they can combine anywhere in Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha! (or any other plural zone for that matter) :smallbiggrin:

Hopefully someone actually gets the joke...

[Rogar Demonblud]

Do you know where your towel is?

[keybounce]

What is the cross product of math and philosophy?

[Kareasint]

Do you know where your towel is?

The answer is 42.

[Tetrimino]

Do you know where your towel is?

I ALWAYS know where my towel is.

[GreyTraveller]

What is the cross product of math and philosophy?Math times philosophy times the sine of theta, of course.

[keybounce]

Math times philosophy times the sine of theta, of course.

A highly Logical answer :-)

[Quibblicious]

Oh, okay.

It might just be the fact that I know Spanish, but not Latin.

I know C and C++, C#, and Java.

None help in this circumstance.

Q

[Quibblicious]

It makes sense now

Good and Law combined is Gawd

Gawd is the phoenetic spelling of God

...

And "Oh my GAWD!!!" is what everyone says when you pop off a good pun.

Don't overthink this. You'll get all sweaty and pungent.

Q

[Quibblicious]

You were close, you just got lost on the way. Law and good have 7 letters and jehovah is a 7 letter version of God. :)

Please keep logic and facts out of this, or suddenly we'll start making sense and then someone will notice and they might ask us to do something useful.

I'm just not ready for that sort of commitment.

Q

[Quibblicious]

I was the first to derail the thread. I'm not sure if I should be happy about that.

Take pride in thinking outside the box. Or spinning around wildly flailing about within the box.

One or the other...

Q

[Quibblicious]

Giggles is the god of slapstick.

Demigod, fwiw.

Slapstick doesn't have quite enough of a following for a full on god.

Q

[aurilee]

Take pride in thinking outside the box. Or spinning around wildly flailing about within the box.

One or the other...

Q

It also means he's one step closer to being Chaotic.

Muahahahaha!

[Quibblicious]

Time for some fun:

P = 16
A = 1
L = 12
A = 1
D = 4
I = 9
N = 14

Added together, that equals 57 (not a prime), but, if you divide by 3 (a prime number) you get 19 (also a prime number). This is significant because:

L = 12
A = 1
W = 23

G = 7
O = 15
O = 15
D = 4

If you add all those together, you get 77. That's also two prime numbers multiplied. Also further instances of the number 7.

Now, 77 (for numerology purposes) can be considered significant as 14 (7+7) and 57 as 12 (5+7). If you add those together you get 26, which is also the result of multiplication of 2 prime numbers.

Conclusion? Paladins are the mixing of 2 primes. As Shining Wrath pointed to.

Bonus: LAW = 36, which is a square. Yep :smallcool:

My Tylenol would like to thank you for making it useful today...

Q

[aurilee]

My Tylenol would like to thank you for making it useful today...

Q

Your Tylenol is very welcome! ^_^