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View Full Version : Making a quiz! Which D&D is right for you?



2D8HP
2016-12-21, 02:03 PM
Yep.
Hopefully a multiple choice "pop psychology" type quiz to steer people towards whatever version of Dungeons & Dragons they would be happiest playing (not the "best", and yes some of us like to play different editions on different days, and also other RPG's but hopefully we can simplify it).

What questions?
Which answers?

The Why do almost all editions of D&D fall apart around 10th level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?495989-Why-do-almost-all-editions-of-D-amp-D-fall-apart-around-10th-level) thread became a discussion of how true "falling apart at 10 level" was for different editions and....


Since the majority of us don't have enough experience with all the different "editions" of D&D (much more than five!), I wish there was some "which D&D is right for you" quiz similar to the pop-psychology quizzes in "men's" and "women's" magazines.


To 2D8HP: Do we want to make a thread for that?

I'm sure we could. Pick out the strong & weak points of each edition, convert the comparisons into questions and then have an answer key which converts you answer into an approximate score for each system.


That sounds pretty good, but wouldn't we have to already have impressions of each version of D&D already (not to mention other games)?

I myself have really only experienced play with '77 Basic, 0e with supplements, 1e AD&D, "5e" D&D, read a lot of 3e (no real table time past character creation though), and have had only brief glances at '81 B/X, RC, 2e AD&D, 3.5 and 4e, and I expect that most of us have different but still partial lists.

But... if anyone else thinks it's a good idea, yeah let's do that thread!


More often than not, the answer is, "The first version you played".

I suspect that's mostly because that version shapes your expectations, but also partly because each version is aimed at the current potential gamers at that time.



So.. that's why when I DM I can only remember 48 pages of rules (1977 "Basic"), but when I'm a player I expect the DM to remember material scattered over several books (the "LBB's", plus Greyhawk, plus Blackmoor, plus the Arduin Grimoires, etc...).

That.... actually kind of makes sense, but I still believe the type of adventure (explore and loot the Dungeon vs. defeat the BBEG) matters more than whether you roll percentile dice or a D20 to see if your Thief successfully picks a lock, but yeah a certain flavor is craved even if the chemical ingredients aren't exactly the same.


To 2D8HP: Well I have "impressions" on most of the big systems, actual experience with quite a few less. Hopefully we can get enough support in from other people to fill it in though. We could branch out to other systems... but although I think this is worth trying I don't know if it will work so I'm not sure if "the role-playing game that is right for you" is a good idea. If nothing else, limiting it to editions of D&D will remove the question of which systems to include.

We would probably need more than just two people to put that together. You need* multiple people's opinions to make that come together.

* Rather, I think you should have.


Add in a measure of "and if you didn't like the current version at the time that you started playing, you wouldn't have continued" and I think you've got the recipe down.

So...

Some questions could be:

How many pages of rules can you memorize?


Do you like lots of options for your PC's or keeping it simple?


How important is it for your PC to survive a session?


How fast do you want to level up?

Telok
2016-12-21, 03:11 PM
How much of a challenge do you want survival to be?

Should character abilities change dramatically at some point in the game?
(Example: Should there be a character archetype that changes it's main shtick from "attack opponents" to "lead armies"?)

Resource management as part of the player's game?

Resource attrition as part of the DMs game?

Do you like a unified dice mechanic with all chances being equally likely for every roll?
(Math version: Do you like uniform distributions for all dice mechanics or should some actions follow normal, bell shaped, probability distributions?)

Should simplicity trump verisimilitude?

Should consistency trump simplicity?

Should verisimilitude trump consistency?

hymer
2016-12-21, 03:36 PM
Question followed by some observations regarding answers:

How important is it that you can get published adventures?
PF and 5e has stuff coming out; 2nd edition through to 4th have considerable amounts of stuff already published, but nothng new is coming out.

What sort of skill system do you prefer?
NWPs (or iots equivalent) can be found from the Rules Cyclopedia to 2nd edition. 3.X has the most granular and explicit skill system.

How important is balance between characters in the party?
In everything I've played up until 3.X, classes was nominal. Rules Cyclopedia races are classes, and has huge impact on the power curve of your character. In AD&D (1st and 2nd edition) races still had a huge impact on when a character was powerful: Level caps for races were meant to balance out that humans had little to offer compared to demihumans.
Maybe this one should be split into two? Raes might also depend on how many you want, as the tendency has been towards increasing the number of available races over time.

Cluedrew
2016-12-21, 04:51 PM
Woot! It happened!

Side note: how technical should these questions be? For instance:
Should verisimilitude trump consistency?Is a very important question... but is everyone going to know what it means right away? Do we have a target audience?

I've got a few questions that I think might help, but I'm not sure what answers would give you which systems.

How long do you want your campaign to be? One shot Months A year Years/indefinite
How powerful do you want your character to be compared to the average person? On par Slightly above Noticeably above Unapproachable
Character skill or player skill? Character skill A mix of the two Player skill

Grod_The_Giant
2016-12-21, 05:23 PM
How many choices do you like to have during character creation?

How many hard-coded options do you like to have during play?

How many rules do you want left up to the DM?

veti
2016-12-21, 05:45 PM
How many rules do you want left up to the DM?

Now I'm thinking, you could bypass the whole thing by asking "Are you willing to trust your DM?"

If "yes", then the answer is "whichever version they want to run".

If "no", then the answer is "none, until you find another DM".

Of course, it's still a valid question for (would-be) DMs themselves.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-12-21, 06:14 PM
Now I'm thinking, you could bypass the whole thing by asking "Are you willing to trust your DM?"

If "yes", then the answer is "whichever version they want to run".

If "no", then the answer is "none, until you find another DM".

Of course, it's still a valid question for (would-be) DMs themselves.
Meh. While certainly a prerequisite for any game, there are some systems I'd turn down even if I liked the GM. Probably wouldn't play Vampire regardless of who was running, for instance.

russdm
2016-12-21, 06:37 PM
My Suggestions)

Most Critical Question: Do you want to have actual fun? At more than just a few levels?

Second Critical Question: Do you want to be anybody's packmule/servant/cheerleader at higher levels?

How much of a decent human being are you?

How much of decent human beings are your fellow players?

Do you want to need a gentleman's agreement in order to play and have everyone have fun?

Are any of your players likely to be hidden bastards?

Are you intending to play a more serious game or one more comedy based?

How serious is your game or how serious would you like it to be?

How potent and game breaking do you want your magic to be?

Do you want your wizard or cleric to solve your problems with least amount of trouble?

Do you want to play Superheroes (Casters), or the guy who gets mugged (Non-Casters)?

(Different editions produce wildly different results in answer to these questions)

2D8HP
2016-12-22, 08:34 AM
My Suggestions)

Most Critical Question: Do you want to have actual fun?.....
...... (Different editions produce wildly different results in answer to these questions)Sorry about my ignorance but I have very little in the way of guesses about which answers to those questions would lead to what editions.
Looking forward to finding out!

Cluedrew
2016-12-22, 08:47 AM
A less polarising version of the question martial/caster might be: "How much disparity between power levels do you want to deal with?" or ... well basically I want to ask "Do you want to choose from a subsection of the tiers?" without referencing the tier system. Because most people who know what that means probably don't need that quiz.

Then again, maybe it is not an issue at an introductory level? Or is it more of an issue?

Jay R
2016-12-22, 09:27 AM
I suspect that it would be easier to determine somebody's favorite version, or least favorite version, from the questions they are proposing than by any answers.

Kurald Galain
2016-12-22, 09:49 AM
I suspect that it would be easier to determine somebody's favorite version, or least favorite version, from the questions they are proposing than by any answers.

Indeed. I've seen before on the forums that (for example) most players think that the easiest edition to learn is whichever their favorite edition is.

2D8HP
2016-12-22, 11:47 AM
I suspect that it would be easier to determine somebody's favorite version, or least favorite version, from the questions they are proposing than by any answers.Yeah I was afraid of that, which is why I wrote:


Yep.
Hopefully a multiple choice "pop psychology" type quiz to steer people towards whatever version of Dungeons & Dragons they would be happiest playing (not the "best", and yes some of us like to play different editions on different days, and also other RPG's but hopefully we can simplify it).

I do get that ragging on popular editions is fun (I fail to see the joy in dog-piling on un-popular editions) and perhaps it's time to start an "edition war" thread that's unencumbered by actually trying to convince anyone, but I didn't want this thread to be that.


Indeed. I've seen before on the forums that (for example) most players think that the easiest edition to learn is whichever their favorite edition is.

Well not everyone:


4e is relatively rules heavy though fairly internally consistent. It is also does not dress most of the rules (especially at the start) in fluffy dressing. In many ways it gives you a game effect and wants you to fluff it how you want. Makes it very flexible but some people do not like seeing the bones of the games rules.

In terms of D&D the biggest reason to play 4e over any other edition is if you want D&D but you want combat to be focusing on things like positioning, forced movement, creating difficult terrain/damage zones, and all sorts of other small scale tactical gaming. If that sort of combat sounds like fun then 4e is the best system of D&D for it. If not then a different version of D&D could be better.


3e on the other hand is also a heavier rules set and its best attribute is the minutia. There are rules for all sorts of random things and relative to other editions it is fairly complicated. IMO it is the version that makes the DM (and players though that is not as big a deal for a veteran) work the most (it takes the most time to prepare and the most details to use).

Of the versions I have played (and I have played all of the big ones though 5e is the least so far) 3e is the hardest for me to hold together. A lot of the problems brought up in this thread are most prevalent in that edition and they can be the hardest to control. Magic is at its most powerful relative to everything with little to no practical limits. It is also the edition where making a character can have the lowest floor in ability and the highest ceiling. I did do a 1-20 campaign and at the end I was having to invest significant amounts of time to make encounters that were fun, interesting, and challenging (the monster/NPC rules in 3e DO NOT help in this regard). I was helped at the very end using concepts introduced in 4e that made creating encounters easier and faster (minion rules were a lifesaver).


As a player I still find it fun to play though the most fun is building a character (due to all the details you can mess with) though it can be difficult to play with new people (also due to all the details and odd rules interactions full attack actions are one of the worst things forced upon weapon users ever in D&D). It is not the edition that I would recommend showing to a person who has never played any D&D of any sort before (I think 5e or RC/basic are the best for that 2e can be ok too). For somebody that loves creating the most detailed and/or getting the most out of a concept and/or creating a very specific concept 3e can be excellent at that. In 3e you might be able to directly create your Naruto character (though it may be terrible in play) whereas in 4e you probably have to refluff a class or powers to get what you want (but it will probably work alright).

If I'm reading MeeposFire right, he says that when he's in the mood for intricate combat rules he likes 4e best, for custom PC creation he likes 3e best, and for teaching someone the game he likes 5e or '81 to '94 Basic/RC.

And that's what I hoped to get, the strength's of the different editions/versions, and which one's best fit different priorities.

But I fear that there may just not be the breadth of knowledge for that.

Maybe we should narrow it further?

wumpus
2016-12-22, 01:48 PM
Yeah I was afraid of that, which is why I wrote:
I do get that ragging on popular editions is fun (I fail to see the joy in dog-piling on un-popular editions) and perhaps it's time to start an "edition war" thread that's unencumbered by actually trying to convince anyone, but I didn't want this thread to be that.


Most of the success of D&D stems from the strength of the original vision from Gygax and that TSR and the others that owned the name managed to keep it the most popular role playing game (at least until 4e). It was always easiest to play the game everyone knew (how do you think monopoly keeps selling?).

Now with 5e competing head to head with pathfinder, that isn't the case.

A great check would be "how many players own enough books to play each edition"? The fact that you can download 5e Basic and SRD gives it a huge leg up (the 3.x SRD is great, but not something you want to learn from).

Of course with AD&D, the players *not* having the books (other than being "allowed" to look at the Players Handbook) would be an advantage within the AD&D framework.

Mordar
2016-12-22, 03:41 PM
How many rules do you want left up to the DM?


Now I'm thinking, you could bypass the whole thing by asking "Are you willing to trust your DM?"

If "yes", then the answer is "whichever version they want to run".

If "no", then the answer is "none, until you find another DM".

Of course, it's still a valid question for (would-be) DMs themselves.

I think this is getting much more to play style than DM trust. Perhaps rephrased as:

What level of situational rule specificity do you prefer?
a. Rules provide general guidelines only
b. Rules provide general guidelines with specific rules for very common situations
c. Specific rules exist for common and unusual situations
d. Specific rules exist for virtually all situations

I don't like the verbiage but I think it gets to the idea...basically how often will the DM have to create a rule/ruling on the spot?...

- M

Kurald Galain
2016-12-22, 03:58 PM
What level of situational rule specificity do you prefer?
a. Rules provide general guidelines only
b. Rules provide general guidelines with specific rules for very common situations
c. Specific rules exist for common and unusual situations
d. Specific rules exist for virtually all situations

See, the problem with questions like these is that we're probably going to disagree on which answer refers to which edition. For example, with the above question, I could make a good case for (a) 5E, (b) 2E, (c) 3E/PF, and (d) 4E. And I'm sure some people will make a different case.



One shot Months A year Years/indefinite
I'm not sure what this has to do with any edition?


How powerful do you want your character to be compared to the average person? On par Slightly above Noticeably above Unapproachable
First, that depends on level. And second, pretty much every edition can have "average persons" all over the place in terms of power level. So again, I'm not sure what this has to do with any edition.


Character skill or player skill? Character skill A mix of the two Player skill
And (d) Neither of the above. I'd expect most people to place their favorite edition at (b), though.

Mordar
2016-12-22, 04:21 PM
See, the problem with questions like these is that we're probably going to disagree on which answer refers to which edition. For example, with the above question, I could make a good case for (a) 5E, (b) 2E, (c) 3E/PF, and (d) 4E. And I'm sure some people will make a different case.

While there will likely be discrepancies on the edges, I do think you've got the spectrum pretty well down, and that's the point...AD&D, 2E, 4E, 3x/PF (IMO), don't know 5E at all...is kind of what I was getting at. As long as we agree on the generalities of the spectrum, as part of a broad index or slate of questions this can be helpful.

The test designer will have to figure out the scoring rubric, but I think there is enough consensus that DMs have different rule-making frequency across editions that a question like this should be considered for inclusion.

- M

Cluedrew
2016-12-22, 05:36 PM
To Kurald Galain: I'm not sure if any edition does either. The point was I thought they were important questions and I wondered what answers we get. I also have an idea something to do about cases where there is not a clear answer.

Which is have a +/- score for the different answers. So under the questions you have a spoilered answer key that maps (3a) to (-2 AD&D, +1 3.X, +2 4E). Now that also makes the "overhead" a bit more, so we could reduce the questions to simple statements with the scores. If you agree with the statement add the points from that statement to your totals. Spectrums can be handled by a pair of opposite statements, like "I want to have a defined rule for as many situations as possible." with "I don't mind improvising (having the DM) improvise rulings for new situations."

That might work better than a)->3E, b)->OD&D, c)->4E and so one. Then again I have never done something like this before, so is guesswork on my end.

veti
2016-12-22, 06:23 PM
Quiz answers shouldn't map simply into "votes" for one edition or another. That's a very crude mechanism.

I would suggest you define some "stats" that you can apply to game editions, reflecting all the factors that vary between them. Stats reflecting things like:

"weight" of rules (heavy vs light)
adherence to narrative
strength (vs fragility) of characters
support for 'verisimilitude'
support for 'party balance'

Then give each edition a number - for tradition's sake, in the range 3-18 - for each stat. For instance, using the five stats listed above, you might say:

1e AD&D: 10 8 9 10 12

3.5e: 16 10 14 12 8

(Devising better stats and scoring is left as an exercise to those who, unlike me, know what the f*** they're talking about in this aspect.)

Then ask a set of questions designed to gauge the player's feelings about each of these stats. Each (multi-choice) answer assigns points (say, from 0 to 5) to each stat.

Then at the end of the quiz, you've got a stat profile of the game the user wants to play. Match the 'shape' of this profile to the edition that most closely matches it, and Robert is your maternal or paternal fraternal relative.

oxybe
2016-12-22, 06:58 PM
honestly, I would recommend anyone wanting to do something like this take a look at Reddit's /r/DnD : Choosing an edition (https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/wiki/choosing_an_edition) as what I find is the best format.

Just give a rough idea what the edition offers in as impartial as you hopefully can and let the buyer make their choice from there.

Knaight
2016-12-22, 06:58 PM
I'd be inclined to make a numeric scoreboard for each edition, essentially ranking them on a number of things - maybe a 1-5 ranking (again, subject to tweaking). Then, the quiz would go over that and establish how much it matters, acting as a multiplier. So, as a quick example of some categories:
Mechanical Complexity*
Mechanical Simplicity*
Niche Protection
Setting Simulation
Mechanical Character Variety
Long Term Mechanical Character Planning
Archetype Emulation
Campaign Setting Support
Speed of Play
Combat Lethality
Human level player characters**
Action hero player characters**
Superhero player characters**
Turn to Turn Tactical Decision Making

Then, each of these would have a 5 point scale, from -2 to +2 (the numbers and scale width can be played with. Negatives represent actively disliking things, 0 not caring, and positives valuing them. Then, these are multiplied by each category and the score is totaled. The inclusion of negatives in particular is key here - take long term mechanical character planning, where the system is designed in such a way that you generally want to make plans for how a character levels up from the start. 3.x strongly emphasizes this, getting a 5 on the 5 point scale. For people who absolutely love it, that's 10 points for 3e. For people who absolutely hate it, that's -10 points for 3e. Having both of these instead of just a negative or positive is important.

*Seperating these out covers cases like someone who wants a rules medium game as opposed to someone who doesn't want a rules heavy or rules light game.
**Splitting this into three categories helps suss out people who want to see all three in one game from people who only care about part of the range.

2D8HP
2016-12-22, 07:32 PM
While there will likely be discrepancies......
Since I don't think anyone of us has enough of a breadth of knowledge my hope is that with our collective knowledge we can make this work ("the wisdom of crowds").
....Which is have a +/- score for the different answers. So under the questions you have a spoilered answer key that maps (3a) to (-2 AD&D, +1 3.X, +2 4E)..... I was thinking it could work something like:

Is it important to have lots of character classes?

If yes +100 points to 3.x, +50 points to 5e etc.

Is it important to have a minimal number of pages of rules to read?

If yes 100 points to 1977 "Basic", 50 points to 1981 "Basic" etc.

The problem of course is if say someone didn't want many pages of rules, but also wanted lots of character classes, then you could maybe say "Give double points to which question is most important to you" (or maybe triple points, and double to the second most important preference).

And then you'd add up the points for each version of D&D to see which ones match your preferences, so I imagine that you would get a result like:

1000 points 2e

500 points 5e,

200 points B/X

100 points 4e

or whatever, and so you'd get a ranking of which editions best fit your preferences.

Now obviously you need other people willing to play the game with you, which is why I think a ranking is important, because say you were going to decide based on what editions are on the shelves at Barnes & Noble, which the last time I looked had rules for 3.5, 4e, and 5e.
With that in mind, a test that just told you 2e or B/X is the game for you wouldn't be much help!
Or say that in your town you know two DM's (and other factors are such as how long the drive is, and what pizza toppings are selected are ignored), one DM runs 1e and another 5e, but if the test just tells you 3.5 is the game for you, but not what would make a good alternate, again the test wouldn't be much help.

JAL_1138
2016-12-27, 12:46 AM
One factor I think is missing so far is combat speed: how long do you feel is acceptable for a combat encounter to last in real time, and based on what factors?

This is only partly covered by questions regarding rules complexity—for example, 3.PF is arguably the most rule-heavy version of D&D, but combat between high-level spellcasters can be rocket tag that only lasts long enough to roll initiative and read a few things off a sheet, with maybe a saving throw in there somewhere.