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Ravinsild
2016-12-21, 08:19 PM
This is my attempt to port the 4e Gnoll Race from this source: http://www.wizards.com/files/367_Playing_Gnolls.pdf

I took that as a basis and modified it using 5e Language and concepts as I understand them. Is this balanced?

Original 4e Race as basis:

RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 7’ 0” – 7’ 6”
Average Weight: 280–320 lb.

Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity
Size: Medium
Speed: 7 squares
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Abyssal, Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Intimidate, +2 Perception
Blood Fury: While you’re bloodied, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls. This increases to a +4 bonus at 21st level.
Pack Attack: You deal an extra 2 damage on melee attacks against an enemy that has two or more of your allies adjacent to it.
Ferocious Charge: You can use ferocious charge as an encounter power.

You lunge toward the enemy and, with a tirade of curses, un-
leash the wrath of Yeenoghu upon your hapless foe.

Encounter
Standard Action
Personal Effect: You charge, and deal an extra 2 damage on a successful attack. Increase the extra damage to 4 at 11th level and 6 at 21st level. If you are bloodied, double the extra damage and gain an equal number of temporary hit points.

RACIAL TRAITS

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ry-qKDrXtW

Ability Score Increase. Your Strength score increases by 2, and your Constitution score increases by 1.

Age. Gnolls reach adulthood as soon as they are spawned from bloated Hyenas that have feasted on blood from the slaughter and live up to 50 years, but rarely do so from their constant marauding.

Alignment. Gnolls are driven by an insatiable demonic hunger and blood-lust that instinctively drives them to slaughter and destroy which makes them both Chaotic unbound to laws and evil as they are corrupted with demonic blood and blessing. However if a Gnoll were to be cleansed of its demonic corruption and severed from its demonic lord it may become a rational sentient being capable of choosing to be good or at least neutral.

Size. Gnolls are between 7 feet tall and 7 foot six inches tall. They weigh between 280 and 320 lbs. Your size is medium.

Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.

Darkvision. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.

Ferocious Hunters. You have proficiency in the Intimidate and Perception skills.

Resourceful Scavengers. You have proficiency with the longbow, the shortbow and the heavy crossbow.

Bite. Your fanged maw is a natural weapon, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with it, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike.

Rampage. When the gnoll reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack on its turn, the gnoll can take a bonus action to move up to half its speed and make a bite attack.

Languages. You can speak, read, and write Abyssal and Common.

Edit: Author's note: I may choose to make the racial stat bonus to Strength based on Volo's Guide to Monsters description as follows: Strength, hunger and fear are the three concepts that every Gnoll extols. Strength allows a Gnoll to overwhelm, kill and devour a foe. Hunger motivates a Gnoll to go forth and slay in Yeenoghu's name. Fear is a weapon used against enemies to make them easy prey. In concert, all three play a role in advancing Yeenoghu's goals.

The skill proficiency is based partly in the Fear mantra most Gnolls follow in Yeenoghu's name in addition to the fact that Gnoll search for omens everywhere for signs from their demonic lord. The same is true for the Hunger that drives their bite and their rampage to eat. Pack Attack was adapted from the +2 damage version the 4e Gnoll came with as I copy and pasted it to change it to the Kobold's version. I don't know how to convert the Blood Fury if if it should just be removed as a racial trait from 4e's version.

Based on Volo's Guide I gave them a proficiency with bows like the Elven Proficiency. The section about "Kill from a Distance" implies they always scavenge and carry bows with them from those they have killed.

Other points to consider: Changing racial stat bonus to +2 Strength to keep in line with Volo's guide but it would not have synergy with the Bow Proficiency. "Leave No Survivors" section says Gnolls attempt to travel as stealthily as possible leaving open a possible proficiency in stealth. Thoughts on inclusions/changes?

Possible changes: Proficiency in Stealth perhaps giving a choice of two skills (Choose two from Stealth, Intimidate and Perception), changing the Dexterity racial bonus to Strength.

Update: Removed pack tactics. Changed stat bonuses from Dex/Con to Str/Con. Changed walking speed down from 35 feet to 30 feet.

Considerations: Removing proficiency in Perception.

Llama513
2016-12-21, 08:26 PM
This is my attempt to port the 4e Gnoll Race from this source: http://www.wizards.com/files/367_Playing_Gnolls.pdf

I took that as a basis and modified it using 5e Language and concepts as I understand them. Is this balanced?

RACIAL TRAITS

Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 2, and your Constitution score increases by 1.
Age.
Alignment.
Size. Gnolls are between 7 feet tall and 7 foot six inches tall. They weigh between 280 and 320 lbs. Your size is medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 40 feet.
Darkvision. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Ferocious Hunters. You have proficiency in the Intimidate and Perception skills.
Blood Fury. While you’re bloodied, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls. This increases to a +4 bonus at 21st level. (I don't know how this translates into 5e and I cannot find an analogue from any other races except perhaps brutal critical. 5e doesn't even use the bloodied system. Perhaps just delete it?)
Pack Attack. You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.
Bite. Your fanged maw is a natural weapon, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with it, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike.
Rampage. When the gnoll reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack on its turn, the gnoll can take a bonus action to move up to half its speed and make a bite attack.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Abyssal and Common.

I would remove Blood Fury, change Pack Attack to be called Pack Tactics, what that ability is called in 5e, and I think that works, what you could do is change Blood Furry to Brutal Critical, or Aggressive, and give them a minus to intelligence in exchange, and don't specify strength modifier for the bite ability, just say that it deals 1D6 as unarmed is finesse and can thus be strength or dexterity

Ravinsild
2016-12-21, 08:30 PM
I would remove Blood Fury, change Pack Attack to be called Pack Tactics, what that ability is called in 5e, and I think that works, what you could do is change Blood Furry to Brutal Critical, or Aggressive, and give them a minus to intelligence in exchange, and don't specify strength modifier for the bite ability, just say that it deals 1D6 as unarmed is finesse and can thus be strength or dexterity

Oh thank you for the feedback. I literally just copied that Lizardfolk's bite attack because it made sense in tandem with their Rampage racial which is something all Gnolls have in common the Monster Manual and Volo's. I figured a Bite Attack was needed to know how to use that ability. Also it seemed fitting based on their lore in Volo's.

Llama513
2016-12-21, 08:32 PM
Oh thank you for the feedback. I literally just copied that Lizardfolk's bite attack because it made sense in tandem with their Rampage racial which is something all Gnolls have in common the Monster Manual and Volo's. I figured a Bite Attack was needed to know how to use that ability. Also it seemed fitting based on their lore in Volo's.

Yeah, the issue is that if we go off of Volo's lore it becomes really difficult to explain why a Gnoll would be traveling with a party, as they are basically mindless killing machines

Ravinsild
2016-12-21, 08:37 PM
Yeah, the issue is that if we go off of Volo's lore it becomes really difficult to explain why a Gnoll would be traveling with a party, as they are basically mindless killing machines

I filled out the alignment section that came up with a flimsy reason....but of course it could be adapted from campaign to campaign and homebrewed also. This race is Homebrewed, after all. I am just trying to use the most official sources possible to make the most balanced race possible. I wanted to copy the standards instead of the "greedy" Gains a +2 to Strength OR Dexterity so you can have your cake and eat it too. I don't want the bite to stack with Sneak Attack damage. I just want it to be an additional option but not necessarily a great option. I just want it to measure up to the Orc or Half-Orc or Lizardfolk in terms of racial balance.

Llama513
2016-12-21, 08:42 PM
That works for an explanation of being a non evil gnoll, and leaves it up to the DM to come up with the specifics of how to sever the demonic connection which can lead to really cool Role playing oppurtunities, as well as the possibility of having to struggle with the pull towards their demonic orgins

Ravinsild
2016-12-21, 08:45 PM
That works for an explanation of being a non evil gnoll, and leaves it up to the DM to come up with the specifics of how to sever the demonic connection which can lead to really cool Role playing oppurtunities, as well as the possibility of having to struggle with the pull towards their demonic orgins

Yes, I was thinking of spells like "Greater Restoration" and other such spells which could be used for any variety of reasons by any number of people who may want Gnolls on their side for one reason or another. It can be open ended and is also inspired by the Blood Curse from Warcraft Orc lore. They feel very much like the Orcish Horde when they were Warlocks and under demonic influence and perhaps a Gnoll like Thrall comes along to redeem them.

Also considering replacing the Blood Fury from 4e with a Bow Proficiency for 5e following the Volo's Guide section "Kill from a Distance" section.

Llama513
2016-12-21, 08:46 PM
Remove Curse I think would work as well. If you give them longbow proficiency, I would give them a few more weapons in conjunction with the longbow

Ravinsild
2016-12-21, 08:54 PM
Remove Curse I think would work as well. If you give them longbow proficiency, I would give them a few more weapons in conjunction with the longbow

I was thinking Shortbow, Crossbow and Hand Crossbow or perhaps the Longbow, Shortbow and Crossbow.

Llama513
2016-12-21, 08:59 PM
I was thinking Shortbow, Crossbow and Hand Crossbow or perhaps the Longbow, Shortbow and Crossbow.

I think longbow, shortbow, and Heavy Crossbow works best

Ravinsild
2016-12-21, 09:06 PM
I think longbow, shortbow, and Heavy Crossbow works best

Yeah I went ahead and pulled the trigger on that. While it was a Copy/Paste from 4e now it's largely become just based on the fluff in Volo's Guide to Monsters drawing my inspiration from what it says their tactics are, how they fight, what they do and so forth.

TundraBuccaneer
2016-12-22, 11:58 AM
I think it might be quite strong if I remember correctly only kobolds have pack tactics, and that can be countered by sun light sensitivity.

Ravinsild
2016-12-22, 12:17 PM
I think it might be quite strong if I remember correctly only kobolds have pack tactics, and that can be countered by sun light sensitivity.

True. I was mostly trying to stay faithful to the 4e version in addition to building around the fluff in Volo's Guide to Monsters about how they overwhelm/swarm enemies crawling over their own dead in massive numbers. It felt...thematic to the Gnoll and a carry-over from 4e but in 4e it just gave a +2 to attack nothing more.

Is it stronger than like Arakoa? Is it a top tier race that overshadows all? I'm not sure how to balance it. I could just delete it but then the Gnoll almost feels sparse and lacking.

I could try and bring back Blood Fury but still no idea what that would look like. In 4e it's just bonus damage. I was wondering if the Dragonborn's dragonbreath but to 1 target or perhaps like the Bugbears sneak attack features might be applicable.

TundraBuccaneer
2016-12-22, 04:49 PM
maybe something like what the hobgoblins have but fluff it as that you feel more secure in greater numbers than you breaking under group pressure.

Ravinsild
2016-12-22, 05:22 PM
maybe something like what the hobgoblins have but fluff it as that you feel more secure in greater numbers than you breaking under group pressure.

I'm tempted to break down "What is the essence of a Gnoll" in a bullet point style outline and then make racial features from that outline picking through Volo's Guide to Monsters and the Monster Manual fluff for pointers to possible racial traits and leaving the 4e version behind entirely.

Llama513
2016-12-22, 05:23 PM
That's probably your best bet

Ravinsild
2016-12-22, 05:27 PM
All the combat bonuses of +X damage and so forth don't seem to translate to 5e AT ALL. Like entirely different systems, balance, and priorities. Entirely different.

Llama513
2016-12-22, 05:36 PM
From my experience, its mostly an issue between 5e and 4e, 5e and 3.5, play together a nicer, but that might just be my perception

Ravinsild
2016-12-22, 05:43 PM
From my experience, its mostly an issue between 5e and 4e, 5e and 3.5, play together a nicer, but that might just be my perception

It's been a LOOOOOOONG time since I've messed with 3.x stuff and the following just looks like nonsense to me that does not convert well either. It's almost even less workable than 4e. Do races even have hit dice? What is Listen and Spot skills? I haven't cracked a 3.x book in like 10 years or more.

Gnoll characters possess the following racial traits.

Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence –2, Charisma –2.
Size Medium.
Humanoid (Gnoll)
A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Racial Hit Dice: A gnoll begins with two levels of humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +0, and Will +0.
Racial Skills: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 x (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Listen and Spot.
Racial Feats: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it one feat.
+1 natural armor bonus.
Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc.
Favored Class: Ranger.
Level adjustment +1.

Llama513
2016-12-22, 05:55 PM
Most things work nicely, races are not quite as nice

Ravinsild
2016-12-22, 09:02 PM
maybe something like what the hobgoblins have but fluff it as that you feel more secure in greater numbers than you breaking under group pressure.

Picking through the highlights:

- The Gift of Yeenoghu: "Strength, hunger and fear are the three concepts that every gnoll extols. Strength allows a gnoll to overwhelm, kill and devour a foe. Hunger motivates a gnoll to go forth and slay in Yeenoghu's name. Fear is a weapon used against enemies to make them easy prey. In concert all three play a role in advancing Yeenoghu's goals."

Mostly why I am considering making them +2 Strength, +1 Con, in addition to my source for Intimidation skill. Also Hunger feels like the source for Rampage and the Bite to...eat in mid combat. Seems fitting.

- Omens from beyond: "As such, gnolls instinctively look for such omens to guide their activities, and they find them in many places. Among the signs that gnolls rely on are the blood trails and spatters left behind after making a meal of an intelligent humanoid. They attach significance to a number of other phenomena as well, including the sight of arrows in flight, the rush of the wind, and sounds of howling or cackling laughter that have no discernible source".

This would speak to me a bonus in perception, always aware of their surroundings, almost paranoid.

- Butcher the Weak: "Gnolls seek only to kill, and as such prefer to deal with weak, easy targets." Probably these are susceptible to fear. It also states "An enemy that can fight back is an enemy to save for later."

Not a lot to draw from racially here but it does make a point toward NOT having pack tactics. In general they like easy to win fights, they just want to get in and get out.

- Overwhelm the Strong: "Gnolls attack intelligent prey that is capable of resisting them ONLY when the most powerful omens from Yeenoghu compel them to do so." They don't LIKE to do this and don't do it naturally. It almost needs to be forced. However "They cooperate to gang up on each of the individuals in a group of explorers or adventurers, or if the prey is more numerous they will rush forward in waves. The creatures will crawl over their own dead to climb a castle's walls and kill all within it."

That last set of statements is where I drew Pack Tactics from in addition to a carry over from 4e. So it seems like a forced behavior which makes it illigible to be cut in my mind. It's not a natural Gnoll thing Yeenoghu makes them. If you're a good gnoll that's been cleansed from your demonic corruption you will probably never feel compelled to do this. This is similar to real life Hyenas that prefer to avoid Lions and other large predators even when it groups. They prefer to run and fight another day. They ARE predators not just scavengers, but they don't just go into fights to fight. So I this makes a case FOR Pack Attack but the previous section makes a case AGAINST Pack Attack.

- Kill From a Distance: "Almost every gnoll carries a bow scavenged from a past victim. Gnolls use ranged attacks mainly to prevent their target from fleeing, rather than softening up their targets with an initial barrage of arrows before an assault."

There's more here but this is where I drew the Bow proficiency from. I was thinking about literally just Longbow or Longbow/Shortbow no crossbow at all. In addition some more of this subsection seems to support pack tactics indirectly. Still conflicted with this.

- Leave no Survivors: "To keep from being detected between major raids, the gnolls move through the wilderness with as much stealth as they can marshall. They never leave survivors in any group they set upon, and will pursue a fleeing enemy for days to prevent it from getting to a town or a city and raising an alarm."

This is the line that made me consider a proficiency in stealth. They like to be quiet, unseen and unnoticed by this writing.

Based PURELY on these articles it looks like:

- Bow Proficiency. Just Bow. No crossbow, just normal bow.
- Stealth, Intimidate, and Perception proficiency
- Rampage + Bite due to hunger?
- +2 Strength, +1 Con instead of Dex?
- Pack Tactics strong maybe many points for/against

It doesn't mention they are particularly fast. 30 base movement is probably normal. 40 feet was a carry over from 4e 7 squares, but none of this flavor necessarily implies they move fast or run far except MAYBE if you're stretching the whole "runs after enemies no matter what for forever" but...that doesn't mean they run FAR just they have a lot of endurance (+1 con). All the monster stat blocks just say 30 feet in the MM and Volos. They also ALL have Darkvision, even the undead one. So the monster stats uniformly have: Rampage (every single one has it), Darkvision and 30 feet movement speed. MOST have a "Longbow" attack also matching the above point.

How strong would:

- +2 Dex (Strength more appropriate???), +1 Con
- 30 speed
- Darkvision
- Longbow Proficiency (Shortbow feels greedy but maybe both bows?)
- Stealth, Perception, Intimidate proficiency
- Rampage
- Bite to have a mechanic to use rampage (It feels like the bite and rampage are paired. If I removed Rampage I'd remove the bite.)
- Tentative Pack Attack but probably just willing to cut

Monster Stats:

- 30 feet
- Darkvision
- 1 has Intimidate/Perception, 1 has Stealth/Perception
- 5/7 Gnolls have Longbow
- 6/7 Have Bite/Rampage
- 0/7 have Pack Tactics - this cues me it should be deleted
- 7/7 know Gnoll, 2/7 know Abyssal

Conclusion:

- +2 Dex/Str (which one?), +1 Con
- Darkvision
- 30 speed
- Longbow Proficiency
- Bite
- Rampage
- Perception and either Stealth or Intimidate? Intimidate feels more...fundamental. Stealth only 1 guy has.
- Common, Gnoll Language. Maybe Abyssal?

Conclusion score 7 seems to be the score without stealth 7.5

- 3 points for abilities
- 0.5 Darkvision
- 0.5 for "Weapon Proficiency" (it's only 1 not 4)
- 1 (natural weapon 1d6)
- 1 (Change an Action to a Bonus Action?)
- 1 for two skill proficiency (Perception, Intimidate)

This is a flat 7. with Stealth it would be 8 actually, and with abysall 8.5 which feels just excessive. I would not add Abyssal since only two out of seven gnolls know it. I wouldn't include Stealth proficiency its too much. From rough memory it seems to mesh well with Tabaxi...about the same score.

They get:

- 3 from +2 Dex, +1 Con
- 0.5 Darkvision
- 1 Can move double their speed in combat (30 feet), can't do again until they move 0 feet
- 0.5 Natural Claws (1d4)
- 1 for 20 feet of climbing speed
- 1.5 for Stealth and Perception proficiency

That totals to 7.5 roughly - about the same strength as my Gnoll, Elves and Dwarves. Seems solid. Strong, but solid compared to many racial options out. I think I figured out how that Musicus score thing worked.

How's it looking?

King539
2016-12-24, 06:09 PM
I recommend boosting Strength instead of Dex. Knolls generally have higher Strength than Dex in the books.

Ravinsild
2016-12-24, 07:10 PM
I recommend boosting Strength instead of Dex. Knolls generally have higher Strength than Dex in the books.

Yeah I noticed that myself. I guess almost nothing from 4e carries over and Strength just seems more fitting overall.

So I did my best to stick to the material. Would you say I've made a pretty well balanced race that is neither OP nor UP just regular and equal to many races?