Quick Fixes For Monk?

[Scorponok]

Since everyone likes to crap on the 3.5 Monk, I was wondering, what are some quick fixes you apply as houserules for it? I've never had to do this yet because none of my players have played a monk before. My ideas:

- Give the monk all good saves. (+2,+2,+2 1st level then +3,+3,+3 2nd level, etc.)
- Give the monk one additional attack as a swift action. This somewhat gives him the pounce ability.
- Let him be able to leap 10 feet without a jump check
- Give him Base Attack Bonus progression as a fighter.

This is by no means a major rewrite of the monk, but one that might be able to be quickly applied to the base to make it more competitive with the other melee classes.

[Troacctid]

Monks already have all good saves.

[Coretron03]

Give him full wizard casting.

...


Oh you want him to stay monk-y?

letting him move half his speed as a swift action.

Inrease his scaling free ac bonus

Give him a one step higher hitdie

Let him use dexterity for damage/ to hit instead of strength

Flurry eventually (6-10) applies to standard action single attack

make unarmed strikes eaiser (cheaper) to enchant

Give 6+int skill points (maybe improve skill list)

This is some stuff I thought about on the top of my head, would likely require more though solves mad a bit (doesn't need strength, doesnt need int for skills, gets more base hit points) and the move and flurry issue. Maybe something like weapon focus (unarmed strikes) for free at level one to help him hit more?

[Telok]

The simplest fix is full BaB, flurry is a standard action, the movement bonus is untyped, and they get pounce at level 6.

[Coretron03]

The simplest fix is full BaB, flurry is a standard action, the movement bonus is untyped, and they get pounce at level 6.

They still are partially MAD though, and my fix sort of gave them pounce except it was more versatile somewhat. Maybe I could add "can expend a stunning fist use to be able to move their full speed as a swift action for 1d4+1/4 monk level rounds. I agree I should include full BAB though. Movement bonus change would make alot of sense, so they can benfit from common speed boosting magic items.

[Bad Wolf]

Probably using Wisdom instead of Strength for unarmed strike. Or maybe one type of monk weapon that cannot be changed later.

[digiman619]

Refluff a Barbarian. Instead of Rage, have them be "in sync with the rhythm of battle" and remove the alignment restriction and you're set.

[DMVerdandi]

Give him full wizard casting.

...

Even though you jest, this really is probably one of the better ideas for bringing the monk up to tier 1. I actually wrote something similar to this a couple of years ago.

Instead of wizard casting, I said cleric, but the real best answer is to make monk psionic, and let them manifest all divine spells.
Have it so that they prepare powers after a rest, and can learn all divine spells from scrolls and from willing participants (a la erudite), but do not use them as unique powers per day, but after prepared as a psion. 2 new powers per level. 3 spells prepared per spell level, per day (3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3)
CONSTITUTION CASTING.
Also as a clause, make it that they are unable to learn from psionic power lists through expanded power feat; only other divine spells are learnable. Furthermore, there is no augmentation, the powers simply act as the spells, with the power point investment paying for one use.



Give them unarmed attack progression, CON to ac, and instead of flurry, give them psionic lion's pounce as an at will. They also get psionic fist and greater psionic fist for free.

Perhaps rename SOHEI to give warrior monk vibe, and also as a throwback to the oriental adventures class.

For a class variant, a SOHEI can become a SHINOBI. The variant functions as such:
Trade their all divine list for all arcane
Trade unarmed strike for sneak attack
trade monk proficiency for all martial and simple
Monk skills for psionic rogue skills
Trade Con to AC for Hide in plain sight,


EDIT:I MIGHT PLAGIARIZE MY OWN IDEA AND POST IT LATER.:smallcool:

[stanprollyright]

EDIT:I MIGHT PLAGIARIZE MY OWN IDEA AND POST IT LATER.:smallcool:

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. :smalltongue:

[Troacctid]

I present to you the 5e Monk, converted to 3.5e.



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Class abilities
Martial arts
Ki
Unarmored movement


1
+0
+2
+2
+2
Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts
1d6
-
-


2
+1
+3
+3
+3
Ki, Unarmored Movement
1d6
2
+10


3
+2
+3
+3
+3
Open Hand Technique, Deflect Missiles
1d6
3
+10


4
+3
+4
+4
+4
Ability Score Improvement, Slow Fall
1d8
4
+10


5
+3
+4
+4
+4
Extra Attack, Stunning Strike
1d8
5
+10


6
+4
+5
+5
+5
Ki-Empowered Strikes, Wholeness of Body
1d8
6
+20


7
+5
+5
+5
+5
Stillness of Mind, Improved Evasion
1d8
7
+20


8
+6
+6
+6
+6
Ability Score Improvement
1d10
8
+20


9
+6
+6
+6
+6
Unarmored Movement Improvement
1d10
9
+20


10
+7
+7
+7
+7
Purity of Body
1d10
10
+30


11
+8
+7
+7
+7
Tranquility
1d10
11
+30


12
+9
+8
+8
+8
Ability Score Improvement
2d6
12
+30


13
+9
+8
+8
+8
Tongue of the Sun and Moon
2d6
13
+30


14
+10
+9
+9
+9
Diamond Soul
2d6
14
+40


15
+11
+9
+9
+9
Timeless Body
2d6
15
+40


16
+12
+10
+10
+10
Ability Score Improvement
2d8
16
+40


17
+12
+10
+10
+10
Quivering Palm
2d8
17
+40


18
+13
+11
+11
+11
Empty Body
2d8
18
+50


19
+14
+11
+11
+11
Ability Score Improvement
2d8
19
+50


20
+15
+12
+12
+12
Perfect Self
2d10
20
+50



Unarmored Defense (Ex)
Beginning at 1st level, while you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, you gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Wisdom bonus.

Martial Arts (Ex)
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons. Monk weapons are all simple melee weapons, as well as the kama, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, and siangham.

You gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, as well as the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:

You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage dice of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the table.
When you use the Attack or Full Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a swift action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a swift action, assuming you haven’t already used your swift action this turn.

Ki (Su)
Starting at 2nd level, your training allows you to harness the mystic energy of ki. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of ki points. Your monk level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Ki Points column of the table.

You can spend these points to fuel various ki features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more ki features as you gain levels in this class.

When you spend a ki point, it is unavailable until you spend at least 30 minutes meditating, at the end of which you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself.

Some of your ki features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC is equal to 10 + half your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.

Flurry of Blows
Immediately after you take the Attack or Full Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a swift action.

Patient Defense
You can spend 1 ki point to take the Total Defense action as a swift action on your turn.

Step of the Wind
You can spend 1 ki point to move up to your speed as a swift action on your turn, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.

Unarmored Movement (Ex)
Starting at 2nd level, your speed increases by 10 feet while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels, as shown in the table.

At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move.

Open Hand Technique (Su)
Starting at 3rd level, you can manipulate your enemy’s ki when you harness your own. Whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, you can impose one of the following effects on that target:

It must succeed on a Reflex saving throw or be knocked prone.
It must make a Fortitude saving throw. If it fails, you can push it up to 15 feet away from you.
It can’t make attacks of opportunity or take immediate actions or readied actions until the end of your next turn.

Deflect Missiles (Ex)
At 3rd level, you gain Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites.

When you deflect a missile this way, you can catch the missile if it is small enough for you to hold in one hand and you have at least one hand free. If you do, you can spend 1 ki point to immediately make a ranged attack with the weapon or piece of ammunition you just caught. You make this attack with proficiency, regardless of your weapon proficiencies, and the missile counts as a monk weapon with a ranged increment of 20 feet for the attack.

Ability Score Improvement (Ex)
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1.

Slow Fall (Su)
Beginning at 4th level, you can use an immediate action when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level.

Extra Attack (Ex)
Beginning at 5th level, you can make an additional attack whenever you take the Attack or Full Attack action on your turn.

Stunning Strike (Su)
Starting at 5th level, you can interfere with the flow of ki in an opponent’s body. When you successfully damage another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt a stunning strike. The target must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn.

This ability counts as Stunning Fist for the purpose of prerequisites; if an ability requires you to expend uses of Stunning Fist, you can instead expend that many ki points.

Wholeness of Body (Su)
At 6th level, you gain the ability to heal yourself. Once per day, as a standard action, you can regain hit points equal to three times your monk level.

Ki-Empowered Strikes (Su)
Starting at 6th level, your unarmed strikes count as magical for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and attacking incorporeal creatures.

Improved Evasion (Ex)
At 7th level, your instinctive agility lets you dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a blue dragon’s lightning breath or a fireball spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Reflex saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Stillness of Mind (Ex)
Starting at 7th level, whenever you are affected by any mind-affecting magic, you automatically become aware of its effects as if you had identified it with a successful Spellcraft check. Additionally, you can remove a charm or fear effect from yourself as a standard action. The effect immediately ends for you as if its duration had expired. You can use this ability even if fear or mental control would otherwise prevent you from acting freely.

Purity of Body (Su)
At 10th level, your mastery of the ki flowing through you makes you immune to disease and poison.

Tranquility (Su)
Beginning at 11th level, you can enter a special meditation that surrounds you with an aura of peace. At sunrise each day, you gain the effect of a sanctuary spell targeting yourself, except that it lasts until the next sunrise or until discharged. The saving throw DC equals 10 + half your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.

Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Su)
Starting at 13th level, you learn to touch the ki of other minds so that you understand all spoken languages. Moreover, any creature that can understand a language can understand what you say.

Diamond Soul (Su)
Beginning at 14th level, you gain a +5 perfection bonus to all saving throws.

Additionally, whenever you make a saving throw and fail, you can spend 1 ki point to reroll it and take the second result.

Timeless Body (Su)
At 15th level, your ki sustains you so that you suffer none of the frailty of old age, and you can’t be aged magically. You no longer take penalties for aging. You can still die of old age, however. In addition, you no longer need food or water.

Quivering Palm (Su)
At 17th level, you gain the ability to set up lethal vibrations in someone’s body. When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike, you can spend 3 ki points to start these imperceptible vibrations, which last for a number of days equal to your monk level. The vibrations are harmless unless you use a standard action to end them. To do so, you and the target must be on the same plane of existence. When you use this action, the creature must make a Fortitude saving throw. If it fails, it collapses unconscious and dying at -1 hit points. If it succeeds, it takes 10d10 damage.

You can have only one creature under the effect of this feature at a time. You can choose to end the vibrations harmlessly as a free action.

Empty Body (Sp)
Beginning at 18th level, you can use a standard action to spend 4 ki points to become invisible for 1 minute. During that time, any damage you would take is halved. This spell-like ability is the equivalent of a 6th level spell, and activating it does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Additionally, you can spend 8 ki points to use astral projection as a spell-like ability. When you do so, you can’t take any other creatures with you.

Perfect Self (Ex)
At 20th level, when you roll for initiative and have no ki points remaining, you regain 4 ki points.

This alternate class feature replaces Open Hand Technique, Wholeness of Body, Tranquility, and Quivering Palm.

Shadow Arts (Sp)
Starting at 3rd level, you can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. You may spend 2 ki points to use [I]darkness, darkvision, mass camouflage (SpC), pass without trace, or silence as a spell-like ability. Additionally, you can use ghost sound as a spell-like ability at will.

Shadow Step (Su)
At 6th level, you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another. When you are in darkness or shadowy illumination, you can use a swift action to teleport to an unoccupied space you can see within 60 feet that is also in darkness or shadowy illumination. After teleporting this way, the next time you make a melee attack this turn, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC.

Cloak of Shadows (Sp)
By 11th level, you have learned to become one with shadows. When you are in an area of darkness or shadowy illumination, you can use a standard action to become invisible until you make an attack, cast a spell, use a spell-like ability, or enter an area of bright light.

Opportunist (Ex)
At 17th level, you can exploit a creature's momentary distraction when it is hit by a melee attack. Whenever an opponent within your reach is struck for damage in melee by another character, you may make an attack of opportunity against that opponent. You cannot make more than one attack of opportunity this way each round, even if you have the Combat Reflexes feat.

This alternate class feature replaces Open Hand Technique, Wholeness of Body, Tranquility, and Quivering Palm.

Drunken Technique (Ex)
At 3rd level, you learn how to twist and turn quickly as part of your flurry of blows. You gain Spring Attack as a bonus feat. You need not meet the prerequisites. When making a Spring Attack, treat your land speed as if it were 10 feet faster. If you make multiple attacks as part of a Spring Attack (such as with the extra attack feature or a flurry of blows) you may move in between each attack.

Brewing Proficiency (Ex)
At 3rd level, you gain a bonus equal to half your monk level (rounded down) on all Craft (brewing) checks.

Tipsy Sway (Ex)
Starting at 6th level, you can move in sudden, swaying ways. You gain the following benefits:

Leap to Your Feet. You can stand from prone as a free action once per turn.

Redirect Attack When a creature misses you with a melee attack roll, you can spend 1 ki point as an immediate action to cause that attack to hit one creature of your choice, other than the attacker, that you can see within 5 feet of you.

Drunkard's Luck (Su)
Starting at 11th level, you always seem to get a lucky bounce at the right moment. If an effect or condition would impose a penalty on your attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check, you may spend 2 ki points to ignore that penalty for 1 round. Using this ability requires no action; it is part of making the affected roll.

Intoxicated Frenzy (Ex)
At 17th level, you gain the ability to make an overwhelming number of attacks against a group of enemies. When you use your flurry of blows during a Spring Attack, you can make up to three additional attacks with it (up to a total of five flurry of blows attacks), provided that each flurry of blows attack targets a different creature this turn.

This alternate class feature replaces Open Hand Technique, Wholeness of Body, Tranquility, and Quivering Palm.

Signature Weapons (Ex)
When you reach 3rd level, choose two simple, martial, or exotic weapons to be your signature weapons: one light or one-handed melee weapon and one ranged weapon. You become proficient with the chosen weapons, and you treat them as monk weapons. When you reach 6th, 11th, and 17th level, you can choose an additional weapon—either melee or ranged—to become a signature weapon for you, following the criteria above.

Agile Parry (Ex)
Starting at 3rd level, if you make an unarmed strike attack as part of an attack or full attack action while holding one of your signature weapons, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. Regardless of whether the unarmed strike hits or misses, you gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn or until you are no longer holding the weapon, whichever comes first.

Master's Shot (Ex)
Starting at 3rd level, as a swift action, you can take careful aim with your ranged attacks. Until the end of your turn, whenever you hit with a ranged attack using one of your signature weapons, the target takes an extra 1d4 damage.

Way of the Brush (Ex)
At 3rd level, you gain a bonus equal to half your monk level (rounded down) on all Craft (calligraphy) and Craft (painting) checks.

One with the Blade (Su)
Starting at 6th level, you extend your ki into your signature weapons. Your attacks with your signature weapons are treated as magical for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. Additionally, once per round, when you hit a creature with one of your signature weapons, you can expend a ki point to deal extra damage equal to your martial arts die.

Sharpen the Blade (Sp)
At 11th level, you gain the ability to augment your weapons further with your ki. As a swift action, you can expend up to 3 ki points to cast greater magic weapon on one of your signature weapons, with a duration of 1 minute and a caster level equal to 4 times the number of ki points spent.

Unerring Accuracy (Ex)
At 17th level, your mastery of weapons grants you extraordinary accuracy. Once per round, if you miss with an attack roll using a monk weapon or unarmed strike, you can reroll it. You must take the result of the reroll, even if it's worse than the original roll. This is a free action.


This alternate class feature alters your class skills and replaces Open Hand Technique, Wholeness of Body, Tranquility, and Quivering Palm.

Class Skills
Lose Diplomacy as a class skill. Gain Intimidate as a class skill.

Touch of Death (Su)
Starting at 3rd level, your study of death allows you to extract vitality from another creature as it nears its demise. Whenever you reduce a creature within 5 feet of you to 0 or fewer hit points, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier + your monk level (minimum 1 temporary hit point). These temporary hit points do not stack.

Hour of Reaping (Su)
At 6th level, you gain the ability to unsettle or terrify those around you, for your soul has been touched by the shadow of death. When you use an Intimidate check to demoralize an opponent, you can choose to affect all other creatures within 30 feet that can see you (including allies), rather than only a single enemy that you threaten. Each of them rolls a separate modified level check to oppose your Intimidate check, but the skill check otherwise works as normal.

Mastery of Death (Su)
Beginning at 11th level, you use your familiarity with death to escape its grasp. You are not staggered when your nonlethal damage is equal to your current hit points, and when you are reduced to -1 or fewer hit points by damage, you can expend 1 ki point (no action required) to be reduced to 0 hit points instead.

Touch of the Long Death (Sp)
Starting at 17th level, your touch can channel the energy of death into a creature. You can expend 5 ki points to use harm as a spell-like ability.

[Coretron03]

Some of my stuff took inspiration from the 5e monk (use dex for weapons/unarmed strikes, use daily resource to move as swift) although due to to how much he would be chugging through KI (equivalent of flurry costs it) Extra Ki would be a very valuable feat I would imagine. Maybe you could add some shadowhand monk (5e stuff) for the teleporting at will through shadows, maybe being esque to shadowdancers.

[Troacctid]

The other Monastic Traditions should be treated like Pathfinder archetypes, replacing Open Hand Technique, Wholeness of Body, Tranquility, and Quivering Palm. Of course, they're not open content, so I can't post conversions for them, but it's really easy to do.

[Psyren]

Doesn't get faster than Unchained Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/unchained-classes/monk-unchained).

(Incidentally, they get pounce at 5)

[Vaern]

make unarmed strikes eaiser (cheaper) to enchant
They aren't particularly difficult to enchant. You just need to know how to do it right. A lot of people say you have to get an amulet to affect your unarmed strike, but you can have gauntlets enchanted much more easily than that.
Their description says they deal damage as an unarmed strike, except that a character wearing gauntlets is considered armed and does not provoke an attack of opportunity; thus, a monk could enchant gauntlets to use as weapons which retain their increased unarmed damage.

And rather than moving half their speed as a swift action, allow them to make multiple 5-foot steps per round, up to a maximum of their movement speed bonus. This will allow them to bounce around groups of foes while flurry-ing and feel much more kung fu monk-y.

[Scorponok]

^ That's a GREAT idea! Never thought about the multiple five foot steps before! Only problem is if this is given at level 1, it might just be so good people would dip into it just for that power.

[Inevitability]

Use the 5e monk.

Okay, it's not the quickest of fixes, but most of the work is already done for you, and it's pretty easy to convert.



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Class abilities
Martial arts
Ki
Unarmored movement


1
+0
+2
+2
+2
Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts
1d6
-
-


2
+1
+3
+3
+3
Ki, Unarmored Movement
1d6
2
+10


3
+2
+3
+3
+3
Open Hand Technique, Deflect Missiles
1d6
3
+10


4
+3
+4
+4
+4
Ability Score Improvement, Slow Fall
1d8
4
+10


5
+3
+4
+4
+4
Extra Attack, Stunning Fist
1d8
5
+10


6
+4
+5
+5
+5
Ki-Empowered Strikes, Wholeness of Body
1d8
6
+20


7
+5
+5
+5
+5
Stillness of Mind, Improved Evasion
1d8
7
+20


8
+6
+6
+6
+6
Ability Score Improvement
1d10
8
+20


9
+6
+6
+6
+6
Unarmored Movement Improvement
1d10
9
+20


10
+7
+7
+7
+7
Purity of Body
1d10
10
+30


11
+8
+7
+7
+7
Tranquility
1d10
11
+30


12
+9
+8
+8
+8
Ability Score Improvement
2d6
12
+30


13
+9
+8
+8
+8
Tongue of the Sun and Moon
2d6
13
+30


14
+10
+9
+9
+9
Diamond Soul
2d6
14
+40


15
+11
+9
+9
+9
Timeless Body
2d6
15
+40


16
+12
+10
+10
+10
Ability Score Improvement
2d8
16
+40


17
+12
+10
+10
+10
Quivering Palm
2d8
17
+40


18
+13
+11
+11
+11
Empty Body
2d8
18
+50


19
+14
+11
+11
+11
Ability Score Improvement
2d8
19
+50


20
+15
+12
+12
+12
Perfect Self
2d10
20
+50



Unarmored Defense
Beginning at 1st level, while you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, you gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Wisdom bonus.

Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons. Monk weapons are all simple melee weapons, as well as the kama, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, and siangham.

You gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, as well as the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:

You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the table.
When you use the Attack, Full Attack, or Charge action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a swift action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a swift action, assuming you haven’t already used your swift action this turn.

Ki
Starting at 2nd level, your training allows you to harness the mystic energy of ki. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of ki points. Your monk level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Ki Points column of the table.

You can spend these points to fuel various ki features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more ki features as you gain levels in this class.

When you spend a ki point, it is unavailable until you spend at least 30 minutes meditating, at the end of which you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself.

Some of your ki features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC is equal to 10 + half your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.

Flurry of Blows
Immediately after you take the Attack, Full Attack, or Charge action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a swift action.

Patient Defense
You can spend 1 ki point to take the Total Defense action as a swift action on your turn.

Step of the Wind
You can spend 1 ki point to move up to your speed as a swift action on your turn, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.

Unarmored Movement
Starting at 2nd level, your speed increases by 10 feet while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels, as shown in the table.

At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move.

Open Hand Technique
Starting at 3rd level, you can manipulate your enemy’s ki when you harness your own. Whenever you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by your Flurry of Blows, you can impose one of the following effects on that target:

It must succeed on a Reflex saving throw or be knocked prone.
It must make a Fortitude saving throw. If it fails, you can push it up to 15 feet away from you.
It can’t make attacks of opportunity or take immediate actions or readied actions until the end of your next turn.

Deflect Missiles
Starting at 3rd level, you can use an immediate action to deflect or catch the missile when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your monk level.

If you reduce the damage to 0, you can catch the missile if it is small enough for you to hold in one hand and you have at least one hand free. If you catch a missile in this way, you can spend 1 ki point to make a ranged attack with the weapon or piece of ammunition you just caught, as part of the same reaction. You make this attack with proficiency, regardless of your weapon proficiencies, and the missile counts as a monk weapon for the attack, which has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1.

Slow Fall
Beginning at 4th level, you can use an immediate action when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can make an additional attack whenever you take the Attack, Full Attack, or Charge action on your turn.

Stunning Strike
Starting at 5th level, you can interfere with the flow of ki in an opponent’s body. When you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt a stunning strike. The target must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn.

Wholeness of Body
At 6th level, you gain the ability to heal yourself. Once per day, as a standard action, you can regain hit points equal to three times your monk level.

Ki-Empowered Strikes
Starting at 6th level, your unarmed strikes count as magical for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and attacking incorporeal creatures.

Improved Evasion
At 7th level, your instinctive agility lets you dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a blue dragon’s lightning breath or a fireball spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Reflex saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Stillness of Mind
Starting at 7th level, you can use a standard action to end any mind-affecting effect that is currently affecting you.

Purity of Body
At 10th level, your mastery of the ki flowing through you makes you immune to disease and poison.

Tranquility
Beginning at 11th level, you can enter a special meditation that surrounds you with an aura of peace. At sunrise each day, you gain the effect of a sanctuary spell targeting yourself, except that it lasts until the next sunrise or until discharged. The saving throw DC equals 10 + half your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.

Tongue of the Sun and Moon
Starting at 13th level, you learn to touch the ki of other minds so that you understand all spoken languages. Moreover, any creature that can understand a language can understand what you say.

Diamond Soul
Beginning at 14th level, you gain a +5 bonus to all saving throws.

Additionally, whenever you make a saving throw and fail, you can spend 1 ki point to reroll it and take the second result.

Timeless Body
At 15th level, your ki sustains you so that you suffer none of the frailty of old age, and you can’t be aged magically. You no longer take penalties for aging. You can still die of old age, however. In addition, you no longer need food or water.

Quivering Palm
At 17th level, you gain the ability to set up lethal vibrations in someone’s body. When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike, you can spend 3 ki points to start these imperceptible vibrations, which last for a number of days equal to your monk level. The vibrations are harmless unless you use a standard action to end them. To do so, you and the target must be on the same plane of existence. When you use this action, the creature must make a Fortitude saving throw. If it fails, it collapses unconscious and dying at -1 hit points. If it succeeds, it takes 10d10 damage.

You can have only one creature under the effect of this feature at a time. You can choose to end the vibrations harmlessly as a free action.

Empty Body
Beginning at 18th level, you can use a standard action to spend 4 ki points to become invisible for 1 minute. During that time, any damage you would take is halved.

Additionally, you can spend 8 ki points to use astral projection as a spell-like ability. When you do so, you can’t take any other creatures with you.

Perfect Self
At 20th level, when you roll for initiative and have no ki points remaining, you regain 4 ki points.


I agree with just converting the 5e monk, but I suggest adding Evasion in there somewhere. I don't actually think there's 3.5 material that grants you Improved Evasion without first giving you the lesser version, or one would have to count familiars.

[Troacctid]

Doesn't get faster than Unchained Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/unchained-classes/monk-unchained).

(Incidentally, they get pounce at 5)
It would be a lot faster if it didn't do that annoying Pathfinder thing of giving you multiple long lists of special abilities and telling you to pick one or two of them, making it take like four times as long to parse how the class works.


I agree with just converting the 5e monk, but I suggest adding Evasion in there somewhere. I don't actually think there's 3.5 material that grants you Improved Evasion without first giving you the lesser version, or one would have to count familiars.
Well there is now. :smalltongue:

There's no such thing as Improved Evasion in 5e. There's just Evasion, which works like Improved Evasion. I changed the name in my conversion to prevent 3.5 players from getting confused, that's all.

[Psyren]

It would be a lot faster if it didn't do that annoying Pathfinder thing of giving you multiple long lists of special abilities and telling you to pick one or two of them, making it take like four times as long to parse how the class works.

Eh, it's a Qinggong monk with full BAB and like two extra abilities, it's hardly open-heart surgery.

For the record, I like the 5e one too, though having so many of your powers tied up into monastic tradition packages rather than being able to freely choose can be annoying.

[Troacctid]

Qinggong is pretty annoying too.

[Psyren]

Comes down to taste, I suppose.

[Fizban]

My monk changes:

Monk: AC bonus is 2+1/2 level, monk's flurry of blows can be used on standard action attacks (not special feat actions, martial strikes, etc), Slow Fall includes Wall Walker and Water Step (from Dungeonscape and Stormwrack) for free, Wholeness of Body is equal to your full normal hit point total, add bonus feats at 10th, 14th, and 18th, Abundant Step can be used in 10' increments, Quivering Palm is usable 1/day. All Monk bonus feats can be chosen from any associated with the class or otherwise deemed reasonable. Monks can use gauntlets or handwraps enhanced as weapons.

The main problem with the monk is that people expect unarmored martial artists to be hard to hit, not easy, and they don't get nearly enough AC. Fill out the bonus feats, add the cheap ACFs. Improve the supernaturals: Wholeness of Body is now relevant (same value as Guardinal celestials), Abundant Step now equivalent to other common *bamf* classes, let people actually use Quivering Palm, and that's it. Monk class is fixed, not rebuilt or replaced with a completely different set of abilities, just the core monk fixed up enough that you when you optimize it your class features still feel like features instead of jokes.

[Âmesang]

My first idea is to typically make them proficient with the ward cestus and make it a special monk weapon; a bit more flavorful leather gauntlet with an added benefit (+1 untyped bonus to AC during Total Defense action).

[Coretron03]

If we combined everthing in this thread (except the casting one, because then we have another druid(not saying it bad though)) what tier would the monk be classified as exactly? He could do a awful lot of stuff (high amount of skills, good saves much more mobile and a bunch of other stuff I don't feel like listing) IMO would put it at T3, maybe as it would be pretty versitile.

Guantlets let you use your unarmed damage? I could of sworn they didn't because they were nerfed by the developers, if they can though thats great.

Edit: hm, flurry says you can only flurry with unarmed strikes/monk weapons, which a guantlet is not. I think that means you can't flurry with it, not sure though.

[Telonius]

My usual "quick fix" for Monk is to give them full BAB and allow them to self-enchant their body and unarmed strike as though they had Craft Magic Arms and Armor. But I've had these ideas on the back burner for a while to test out, and see if they're any good.


As standard Monk, except:

Remove alignment requirements.
BAB increases to 1 per level.
Weapon Proficiencies: add Gauntlet, Spiked Gauntlet, and Unarmed Strike.
Monk Weapons: add Gauntlet and Spiked Gauntlet.
A Monk can spend time, money, and XP enchanting her own body as though she had the Craft Magic Weapon and Armor feat. Instead of using the gold for magical reagents, it’s spent on expensive incense that’s burned during a special meditation. Treat the Monk as an equivalent-level spellcaster for the purposes of prerequisite caster levels. (If any spellcaster of equivalent level would normally be capable of casting an enchantment prerequisite, the Monk is capable of giving herself the enchantment).

A Monk adds a bonus equal to her Monk level/5 (minimum 1) to all Grapple checks. This stacks with Improved Grapple, if the Monk decides to take it.

At 4th level, a Monk gains the following ability:
Channel ki (Su) A Monk wielding either a Monk weapon or a Ki Focus weapon may use the monk’s unarmed damage (if higher than the weapon’s regular damage) on any successful attack roll.

At 5th level, a Monk may use the Flurry of Blows ability as a Standard Action.

At 8th level, a Monk is treated as one size category larger for the purposes of Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Trip, Overrun, and Sunder checks. At 14th level, the Monk is treated as two categories larger. If it is ever beneficial to be treated as the Monk's usual size, the Monk may choose to do so. This bonus stacks with any additional size modifiers the Monk may obtain (i.e. a Monk under the effects of an Enlarge Person spell would be treated as two size categories larger, 3 categories at level 14).

At 10th level, a Monk adds her Wisdom modifier (if positive) as a bonus to damage when using Monk weapons or Ki Focus weapons.

Replace the Abundant Step ability at 12th level with the following:
Walk on the Clouds (Su). At 12th level or higher, a monk can take to the air, as if using the spell Air Walk, for a number of rounds per day equal to her Monk level plus her Wisdom modifier. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. For purposes of dispelling, her caster level is equal to her Monk level.

The Quivering Palm ability is usable once per day, though only one target at a time may be affected by the ability. If the Monk successfully strikes the foe, the Monk must make a Concentration check. The result of this check is the fortitude save DC.

Perfect Self: Damage Reduction changes to 10/Adamantine.

[ace rooster]

I quite like the idea of embracing the MAD, and having monk levels increase your ability scores. Increases one physical and mental attribute by 1 at every odd level, and the others every even level. An extra +10 to all as a capstone.

Monks focus on improving themself generally, rather than focusing on anything specific (though they can focus with feats and skill ranks, the class itself does not). It gives them something different, which makes it harder for them to be directly compared to other classes.

[Scorponok]

^ I really like this idea too!

[Karl Aegis]

Add Disguise, Gather Information, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Search, Disable Device and Decipher Script to the skill list.

Increase Skill Points to 8+Int

Give them trapfinding.

Let them use a martial weapon for their abilities, giving them proficiency at level 1, weapon focus at level 2 and weapon specialization at level 6.

Give them Stunning (and/or Dragonic) Fist 1/day, Flurry of Blows 2/day, Smite Evil, Chaos, or Good 1/day depending on alignment (Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil, respectively) at level 4, and True Strike as a swift action 1/day at level 6.

Give them a mechanic to refresh these abilities so they can actually keep going all day.

Wholeness of Body at level 5 (down from 7)

Rewrite Flurry of Blows from the ground up. Don't use language like Full Attack action. Make it unambiguous whether it works with two-weapon fighting, natural attacks, haste and whether or not you can use the start/complete full round action standard action with it. Don't leave it open if you can full attack > flurry > full attack > flurry etc in a round or other ridiculous things.

Make Monk Prestige Classes give Full Base Attack Bonus progression. These classes should give unique capabilities to the monk in exchange for a good save becoming a bad save and/or losing a handful of skill points.

Make the monk Charisma or Intelligence based.

[ben-zayb]

Depends on how you define quick. If you have easy access to Tome of Battle, Swordsage is the quickest Monk fix you'll find. If you have easy access to SRD, Psychic Warrior (perhaps with a Slayer PrC) is the quickest Monk fix you'll find.

EDIT: oh, and you can certainly refluff Factotum as a Monk. Seriously. Just read through its abilities and its definitely Monk-like. A genius type of monk work off INT while a sage-like monk would be better off using a WIS-based Factotum

[Pugwampy]

- Give him Base Attack Bonus progression as a fighter.

I think that would help alot .

I would also add d10 or d12 Hitpoint progression . Monks main purpose is fighting.

[Mr Adventurer]

Full BAB
6 skills
All abilities with limited uses per day are instead per encounter
Monk levels are Initator levels, Monk bonus feats can be manoeuvres instead

[Mordaedil]

So a ranger?

[Fizban]

I quite like the idea of embracing the MAD, and having monk levels increase your ability scores. Increases one physical and mental attribute by 1 at every odd level, and the others every even level. An extra +10 to all as a capstone.
Last one of these threads someone (maybe even you!) suggested this, and while I still like the idea of it as I did then, I have to point out that it's basically just giving a number of flat bonuses. Ability score increases translate to bonus attack, damage, save DCs, AC, saves, hp, skill modifiers and skill points (which aren't retroactive), but that's about it. At +1/2 levels, and with ability score modifiers also only going up at the rate of +1/2 points, that translates to +1/4 levels on the various bits. You get a double stack on AC from dex and wis, which combined with the original +1/4 results in about +3/4 levels, but doesn't address the fact that it starts at +0 compared to even light armor starting at +2 so low levels are still lame.

It's not a bad way of adding scaling, but it's not as impressive as one might expect, and it's still just flat numbers. As for combining it with other fixes, if someone wanted to combine it with mine I'd tell them to use the original monk AC but otherwise it's fine, just trading a bit of early AC for a bit more of everything later on. I can't say I agree with an extra +10 to everything at 20th, but how much is too much depends too highly on individual games for me to outright reject it on principle.

I would say combining it with full BAB is a bad idea if you want to use other normal or mostly normal classes- you'd already be getting constant stat boosts higher than a barbarian with no drawbacks and full BAB is just rubbing their noses in it. If you're buffing all the other non-caster classes then obviously this applies less.

[CharonsHelper]

Houserule in Pathfinder's Unchained Monk.

Done.

[Korahir]

Aditional thoughts:

Give him the psychic progression and list of a psychic rogue. Change casting stat to wisdom.
Give him the spell progression of a bard but adjust the list.

[Vaern]

Treat Flurry of Blows kind of like the Manyshot feat - that is, the attack deals multiple blows, but it's all considered a single attack. This will make reaching the massive damage threshold much easier for monks than other martial classes.

[Ruslan]

Quick fixes for Monk are:

1. Play only a low level game. Up to level 2, Monks are actually pretty good.
2. In case, you absolutely must play beyond level 2, multiclass into a Druid or Cleric. Possibly take a PrC. Continue referring to your character as Monk (his social role is not necessarily his class).

That is all.

[zergling.exe]

^ That's a GREAT idea! Never thought about the multiple five foot steps before! Only problem is if this is given at level 1, it might just be so good people would dip into it just for that power.

Well it would be at least a 3 level dip, as that's when Monks get their first +10 feet of movement.

[John Longarrow]

So a Ranger with Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike? :D

[Fizban]

Combat Style (Unarmed): the unarmed ranger style grants Improved Unarmed Strike at 2nd, Superior Unarmed Strike at 6th, and Snap Kick at 11th. Unarmed rangers are known as "monks." :smalltongue:

[Mordaedil]

Combat Style (Unarmed): the unarmed ranger style grants Improved Unarmed Strike at 2nd, Superior Unarmed Strike at 6th, and Snap Kick at 11th. Unarmed rangers are known as "monks." :smalltongue:

Wow. I have to show this to my DM.

[Fizban]

I hope that's because it's a funny joke and not a serious intent to use, IUS is not worth waiting until 2nd level, while SUS and Snap Kick are both delayed and gain you none of the normal ranger combat style benefit of ignoring prerequisites, since they have no serious prerequisites. It's technically better than nothing only because not using the usual combat style options would actually be nothing.

Better to make it an ACF that gives you proper monk unarmed progression at 2nd, Snap Kick at 6th, and some monk-ish feat at 12th that's normally a pain to qualify for. Still not a monk fix though.

[stanprollyright]

I hope that's because it's a funny joke and not a serious intent to use, IUS is not worth waiting until 2nd level, while SUS and Snap Kick are both delayed and gain you none of the normal ranger combat style benefit of ignoring prerequisites, since they have no serious prerequisites. It's technically better than nothing only because not using the usual combat style options would actually be nothing.

Better to make it an ACF that gives you proper monk unarmed progression at 2nd, Snap Kick at 6th, and some monk-ish feat at 12th that's normally a pain to qualify for. Still not a monk fix though.

You could do the TWF fighting style and just take those feats normally.

Or, y'know, unarmed swordsage.

[Mordaedil]

Yeah, this thread has great comedic timing.

[Thaneus]

And nobody think the fix is in ToB?
Leave Monk base as it is and throw in Full Initiator on Top with access to one of the chosen disciplines (Monk of Shadowhand, Tiger Claw...) all maneuvers and stances. Once chosen no other School allowed.
Maybe the Quick to Act from Swordsage and the Discipline Focus on top.

There you have a flavorful, useful and powerful martial artist.

[stanprollyright]

And nobody think the fix is in ToB?


Or, y'know, unarmed swordsage.

*whistles nonchalantly*

[Coretron03]

Well he did ask for monk fixes, not replacements other a wizard could just planar bind somthing and call it a day.

[Fizban]

*whistles nonchalantly*

You forgot ben-zayb:


Depends on how you define quick. If you have easy access to Tome of Battle, Swordsage is the quickest Monk fix you'll find.u
But the fact that he's the only other swordsage swordsage in the thread makes me doubt the stability of reality :smalleek:

[John Longarrow]

But the fact that he's the only other swordsage swordsage in the thread makes me doubt the stability of reality :smalleek:

I'd say its because all of us that would otherwise say "Unarmed swordsage/crusader/warblade decided to NOT duplicate their posts and posted something else...

[Lyndworm]

They aren't particularly difficult to enchant. You just need to know how to do it right. A lot of people say you have to get an amulet to affect your unarmed strike, but you can have gauntlets enchanted much more easily than that.
Their description says they deal damage as an unarmed strike, except that a character wearing gauntlets is considered armed and does not provoke an attack of opportunity; thus, a monk could enchant gauntlets to use as weapons which retain their increased unarmed damage.
You're technically correct, but there are a few issues here.

The least important is that gauntlets force you to deal lethal damage, whereas many people enjoy that the Monk can choose to be merciful without sacrificing additional effectiveness.
Although the gauntlet deals damage as an unarmed strike, they are still two separate weapons. This means that you can't use it in a Flurry of Blows or with Stunning Fist, for example.
Monks aren't proficient with gauntlets (although they're [i]technically[i] not proficient with unarmed strikes either, so that could be wash).

[John Longarrow]

Monks aren't proficient with gauntlets (although they're [i]technically[i] not proficient with unarmed strikes either, so that could be wash).[/list]

Actually they are (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedUnarmedStrike) but who looks under the FEAT to find out if a class gets it or not??? Some of the WORST editing in the PHB/SRD!

[Lyndworm]

Improved Unarmed Strike [General]
Benefit
You are considered to be armed even when unarmed —that is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.

In addition, your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your option.

Normal
Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.

Special
A monk automatically gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at 1st level. She need not select it.

A fighter may select Improved Unarmed Strike as one of his fighter bonus feats.
At no point in the feat you linked does a Monk gain proficiency with the unarmed strike.

She does not provoke an attack of opportunity when using her unarmed strike.
She can make an attack of opportunity with her unarmed strike.
She can choose to deal lethal damage with her unarmed strike.

It is absolutely terrible editing, for several reasons, but there's no proficiency granted there. Unarmed strikes are simple weapons, and the Monk doesn't gain proficiency with simple weapons in general (the way that the FIghter does, for example) or with unarmed strikes in specific.

[Eladrinblade]

Since everyone likes to crap on the 3.5 Monk, I was wondering, what are some quick fixes you apply as houserules for it?

In addition to or replacing what they already have:
-full Bab
-may become psionically focused, despite having no power points
-may flurry with gauntlets/magical "hand wraps" exist (add magical enhancements to unarmed attacks)
-speed bonuses are halved (+5ft. at third, etc.), but are not considered enhancement bonuses
-starting at 3rd, a monk may move up to 10ft. with a 5ft. adjustment.
-starting with at 4th, a monk gains DR 1/magic, this increases by 1 every 4 levels
-at 5th level, a monk may take a move action in place of a 5ft. adjustment.
-Wholeness of body is now fast healing 5, up to as many rounds as you have monk levels, can be used in one round increments at your discretion as a free action. At 14th, the fast healing becomes regeneration (as a troll, except with no exemption for fire/acid). Kicks in automatically if the monk is brought to -1 or fewer hit points, and the monk takes control of the effect upon becoming conscious (if the monk has die hard, its her choice). With regeneration, if the monk drops to -10 or less, the regeneration keeps healing 5 per round until it runs out or the monk is brought to 0 or more HP.
-at 10th, the monk gains DR/Chaotic to match his DR/magic.
-at 10th, a monk may take a standard action as a swift or immediate action, in addition to his normal standard or full action.
-Abundant Step is used by expending psionic focus (ML equal to her level).
-at 15th, a monk may take a full attack as a standard action.
-Quivering Palm doesn't exist.
-Empty Body can be entered as a standard or move action and left as a free action.
-Perfect Self now grants DR 10/Adamantine instead of magic, and the monk becomes a native outsider (not extraplanar).

The monk can choose to let spells affect her at her discretion with no action. Upon reaching 13th level, the monk may deflect ray spells if she has deflect arrows.
A monks DR types stack (so a 20th level monk can ignore up to 20 points of damage from a non-adamantine, non-chaotic, non-magic weapon).

[zergling.exe]

-Wholeness of body is now fast healing 5, up to as many rounds as you have monk levels, can be used in one round increments at your discretion as a free action. At 14th, the fast healing becomes regeneration (as a troll, except with no exemption for fire/acid). Kicks in automatically if the monk is brought to -1 or fewer hit points, and the monk takes control of the effect upon becoming conscious (if the monk has die hard, its her choice). With regeneration, if the monk drops to -10 or less, the regeneration keeps healing 5 per round until it runs out or the monk is brought to 0 or more HP.

Going from fast healing to regeneration in this context is actually a nerf. Regeneration works by turning lethal damage you take into non lethal and healing that. So on any round that you activate regeneration, you would only heal damage you take between activating it and deactivating it. Only you don't regenerate the non lethal when it's not active either. You basically become harder to kill, but easier to be knocked out while it's active instead.

[Scorponok]

At no point in the feat you linked does a Monk gain proficiency with the unarmed strike.

She does not provoke an attack of opportunity when using her unarmed strike.
She can make an attack of opportunity with her unarmed strike.
She can choose to deal lethal damage with her unarmed strike.

It is absolutely terrible editing, for several reasons, but there's no proficiency granted there. Unarmed strikes are simple weapons, and the Monk doesn't gain proficiency with simple weapons in general (the way that the FIghter does, for example) or with unarmed strikes in specific.

I thought you needed to have proficiency in something before you could take the Improved version of it? Would the player be correct to just assume Monks already have proficiency in it?

[Zancloufer]

There is a fix someone on these forms that I adapted and used 95% as posted, the cliff notes where:

-8+Int Skill points (and better skills). So you can safely ignore Int now!

-Flurry is a Standard action, which means you can move and flurry, or use it in AoO. No more needed to stand still in someone's face to use your class feature!

-Movement is untyped (therefor stacks) and adds to any check you make with some skills (Balance, Jump, Tumble).

-Can use Dex OR Str for attack/damage/combat manoeuvres as long as you are "unarmed". It's like Weapon Finessse + Shadow Blade on Steroids! Don't need Str as a monk anymore making them less MAD!

-Slow fall doesn't require you to be beside a wall.

-Unarmed strikes gain effective +1 enhancement bonus every 4 levels and can count as one material type (or Lawful) per +1 that they have! Free magic adamatine fists for all monks!

-That "Talk to anything skill" lets you use Wis instead of Cha for things like Handel Animal and Diplomacy. No need for Cha anymore!

-Dimension Door, Eternalness and Quivering Pawn as usable 1+Wis mod time PER DAY!

-SR can be deactivated as a free action and lets (Harmless) spells pass automatically!

-Level 19 and 20 are actually worth going for! Permanent Foresight at 19 and the change to outsider at level 20 lets the monk decide every time they are targeted whether or not they want ot be considered an Outsider OR their previous type, which ever works better! Also DR 15/Chaotic isn't something that can be negated easily.

[Lyndworm]

I thought you needed to have proficiency in something before you could take the Improved version of it?
You only need whatever the feat says you need. Wizards aren't proficient with unarmed strikes either, but they can still take Improved Unarmed Strike because the feat has no prerequisites.


Would the player be correct to just assume Monks already have proficiency in it?
Correct? No, almost certainly not. It's probably the single most common Monk houserule, though. Most people don't even know it's a houserule because the standard rule is so very dysfunctional. This is a case of RAW vs RAI, though its also one of the few were I think the Intention is extremely obvious.

[Eladrinblade]

At no point in the feat you linked does a Monk gain proficiency with the unarmed strike.

It is absolutely terrible editing, for several reasons, but there's no proficiency granted there. Unarmed strikes are simple weapons, and the Monk doesn't gain proficiency with simple weapons in general (the way that the FIghter does, for example) or with unarmed strikes in specific.

I guess "Monks are highly trained in fighting unarmed, giving them considerable advantage when doing so" doesn't mean "proficient" to you?

Under "unarmed strike" in the monk class section.

The writers of the core books certainly made one mistake: assuming ALL their readers had a minimal amount of common sense.

[Lyndworm]

Come on, now. There's no need to be snide: we can all just agree that there's some poor wording here.

All I'm trying to express is that the unarmed strike is a specific kind of weapon, and every class is proficient with a specific list of weapons. Due to what is likely an editing oversight, the Monk class is listed as proficient with 13 weapons but not the unarmed strike.

[Eladrinblade]

Come on, now. There's no need to be snide: we can all just agree that there's some poor wording here.

All I'm trying to express is that the unarmed strike is a specific kind of weapon, and every class is proficient with a specific list of weapons. Due to what is likely an editing oversight, the Monk class is listed as proficient with 13 weapons but not the unarmed strike.

This is a surprisingly good attitude you're showing here.

I understand your point; I just think that it would be highly redundant to actually say they are proficient in unarmed strikes, when they have a whole section about it on the next page.

Several months ago, someone on here was talking about how the magic weapon spell doesn't actually make your weapon magic, since the text only states that it gains an enhancement bonus. A part of me died that day, and sometimes I'm a jerk. I sincerely apologize if I hurt your feelings.

[Lyndworm]

My skin's a little thicker than that, but I appreciate and accept your apology all the same. Thank you for making the internet a nicer place. :smallsmile:

As for the magic weapon spell... The spell might not technically make a weapon "magical", but it does provide a magical enhancement bonus which is close enough for damage reduction.


Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes [DR/Magic].

If you wanted to be super pedantic about it, then maybe it's not a "magic weapon," but what's the functional difference?

[Psyren]

This discussion is yet another reason to use the Unchained Monk as a fix - because with it comes the PF version of unarmed strike, with which monks have explicit proficiency.



If you wanted to be super pedantic about it, then maybe it's not a "magic weapon," but what's the functional difference?

One functional difference is that a non-magical weapon with magic weapon cast on it can be fully dispelled, including by an area dispel. An actual magic weapon must be specifically targeted, and even then will only be suppressed briefly.

[Lyndworm]

Good point. However, I meant, what's the difference between a spell that grants a magical enhancement bonus and a spell that makes a weapon explicitly magical? It's still a spell effect either way, so it should be equally dispellable.

[John Longarrow]

One costs thousands of GP and the other uses a spell slot. From a game mechanics stand point that's a pretty big difference, one that makes the rules less intuitive.

[Lyndworm]

I can't help but feel like you weren't actually following the conversation. In any case, this line of questioning has very little to do with fixing Monks, so I'll drop it.