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Ellrin
2016-12-22, 01:06 AM
I'm considering making a Polymath (alchemist/investigator initiator template) on an Investigator chassis for an upcoming PF campaign. I've never played any PoW material, so I was looking into one of the disciplines the Polymath gets access to, Primal Fury, for the first time just now, and I noticed this maneuver:

Cornered Frenzy Strike
Discipline: Primal Fury (Strike); Level: 5
Prerequisite(s): Two Primal Fury maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
Duration: Instant
As an animal cornered lashes out at all comers, so does the Primal Fury disciple when he finds himself surrounded. By using his intuition and striking where he feels a foe to be, he uses his instincts as a powerful weapon. As a full attack action, the initiator makes an attack roll at full base attack bonus against each target within his reach with each weapon he is currently wielding (including natural attacks; armor and shield spikes always count as wielded weapons), and each successful attack inflicts an additional 4d6 points of damage. After initiating this maneuver, the initiator's focus on offense causes his AC to suffer a -2 penalty until his next turn.

Now, a Polymath gains access to 5th level maneuvers at 11th level, and 4th level extracts (such as monstrous physique II) at 10th level. Now, he does lose one extract of each level per day for taking the template, but by 11th level, he has access to at least one 4th level extract per day (more if his Int is high enough).

If this Polymath were to carry around extracts of monstrous physique II, long arm, and say, six cestuses, use both those extracts at the start of battle to turn into a calikang with 15 foot reach, and equip those six cestuses on his six arms (let's pretend he has quick draw), am I reading the description of cornered frenzy strike correctly if it seems to me like he gets twelve attacks, all at his full BAB, against every enemy in that fifteen foot reach?

For full cheese, prepare an extract of fluid form too, assuming you have high enough Int for the extra 4th level extract per day, for up to twenty-five foot reach?

AlienFromBeyond
2016-12-22, 01:35 AM
Yes Cornered Frenzy Strike is Whirlwind Attack on crack, it's a bit nuts.

exelsisxax
2016-12-22, 07:24 AM
Cornered frenzy strike isn't the power here, it's having 12 attacks with incredible reach.

Tuvarkz
2016-12-22, 08:12 AM
Oh wow, creative and nasty.
Wait, how do you get 12 attacks? iirc you can't attack with a slam on the same arm you've used to attack with a weapon in the same full attack action.

Castilonium
2016-12-22, 09:17 AM
Tuvarkz is correct. You only get 6 attacks. Behold, rules text!

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

But yeah, there are plenty of ways to get a ton of attacks and weapons that don't need to be held in a limb to abuse Frenzy Strike, Cornered Frenzy Strike, and Primal Frenzy. One way is to be a ragebred skinwalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp/skinwalkers-10-rp#TOC-Wereboar-Kin-Ragebred-) with the Extra Feature feat. If you use Lords of the Wild (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479603-Dreamscarred-Press-Introduces-Lords-of-the-Wild-The-Playtest!), another DSP product, you can get several more natural attacks. Take a look at this Miss Piggy Plentiklaus build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21026534&postcount=7) by upho for an example of overkill craziness.

Ellrin
2016-12-22, 02:50 PM
Tuvarkz is correct. You only get 6 attacks. Behold, rules text!

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

(added emphasis mine)

I actually thought that was the reason why cestuses (or spiked gauntlets, if you prefer) do work, though, at least RAW. RAI it's pretty suspect, but cestuses and gauntlets aren't held weapons, they're worn. Granted, since the calikang's natural attacks are slams, this is essentially saying "I put a gauntlet on my arm, so now I get to punch twice," and for that very reasoning I would never allow it myself if I were GMing (and I can't imagine a GM that would), but by strict RAW, I don't see a reason it doesn't work.

Thanks for the other links, though, I'll definitely be taking a look when I have the chance.

exelsisxax
2016-12-22, 02:57 PM
(added emphasis mine)

I actually thought that was the reason why cestuses (or spiked gauntlets, if you prefer) do work, though, at least RAW. RAI it's pretty suspect, but cestuses and gauntlets aren't held weapons, they're worn. Granted, since the calikang's natural attacks are slams, this is essentially saying "I put a gauntlet on my arm, so now I get to punch twice," and for that very reasoning I would never allow it myself if I were GMing (and I can't imagine a GM that would), but by strict RAW, I don't see a reason it doesn't work.

Thanks for the other links, though, I'll definitely be taking a look when I have the chance.

Even more strict RAW, you can't because a cestus is clutched with the hand or doesn't perform its function.
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/16200/16276/cestus_16276_lg.gif

Ellrin
2016-12-22, 03:03 PM
To be fair, that's not RAW, that's bringing in real world facts about how things actually work, and as we all know D&D/Pathfinder rules bear a cursory resemblance to the way things actually work in the real world at best.

:smalltongue:

(Also the spiked gauntlet is still possible.)