Help With A City Of Monsters

[BDRook]

So in my campaign humanity has pretty much conquered a majority of the world, pushing the vile monsters back into whatever cesspool they came from. The monsters were pretty much pushed back into a massive desert where they formed their own city Miraj. Years later an elder dragon took over the city and used the various monster races that took up home there as a resource to look for a library buried in the desert that he believes will contain the knowledge of immortality. The party is also looking for this library, so at some point they're going to have to come to the city and gather information on where it is/how to get inside it. The party consists of 6 level 12 characters and are quite formidable.

So the way it works out is that each race has their own district that's founded by people of their own race. Other races that go into a different district without permission is likely to get torn to shreds by the inhabitants, but that's their own fault. Crimes done in the district are dealt with by whatever race is prevalent in that district. In the center of the city is a sort of neutral ground policed by the Dragon's personal guard. Punishments are far more severe if you break the law on neutral ground.

The races of this city are as followed:

The Horn District: Consists of minotaur's. Militaristic and barbaric, the Minotaur's were once a race to be feared in the early days of humanity. But due to their slow birthrate and humanity's exploding population they have been since fought back and now are just a shadow of their former glory. They believe there to be some sort of super weapon hidden in the library that they can use in order to regain their foothold as humanity's better.

The Feather District: Consists of Kenku. Being notorious thieves the Kenku have been mostly banished from every city around, but found refuge in Miraj and are used to scour the desert looking for any hidden ruins/treasure the elder dragon can add to his hoard. They put up with it because they believe inside the library is the key to returning the ability of flight to their race.

The Tooth District: Consists of Gnolls. A savage race that devours any they discover. Unfortunately for the other races of the city the Gnoll clerics are the only means of creating water for the other races, something they use to their advantage demanding sacrifices to their God to provide the water they create. (A Druid of the party can also create water, so I figure this could create some sort of power vacuum the party could use as leverage). They seek the library to revive one of their fallen Gods that sought to devour the world.

The Sword District: Consists of Goblins and Hobgoblins. Basically ass-kissed their way into being the Elder Dragons personal guard, they police the neutral ground and basically carry out the whims of the Dragon running the show. They collect the taxes required of the other district to add to the dragons horde of treasure.

The Dragon in charge doesn't care what happens to the citizens of his city as long as they continue to worship him and bring him gold/information on the library. He might actually seek the party's help if they make a big enough splash in the city and draw his attention. Basically I foresee the party coming in and forming an uneasy alliance with one of the races, creating a power vacuum and drawing the ire of the other races. Is there any additions you think might be cool for a monster city, and/or any problems you could foresee arising with the concept?

[Beleriphon]

The Dragon in charge doesn't care what happens to the citizens of his city as long as they continue to worship him and bring him gold/information on the library. He might actually seek the party's help if they make a big enough splash in the city and draw his attention. Basically I foresee the party coming in and forming an uneasy alliance with one of the races, creating a power vacuum and drawing the ire of the other races. Is there any additions you think might be cool for a monster city, and/or any problems you could foresee arising with the concept?

Not a terrible concept at all, in fact its one that Eberron used after a fashion as well. My big thing is to have a group or type of monster that functions as emissaries between the different factions in the city. Maybe hags would work here since they are individually powerful enough fight of small gang of any of the other creatures, are known for their meddling in the affairs of mortals, and a dragon would be able to effectively curb stomp them if it came to that so they still need to fear the Big Boss.

Other thoughts: medusae are always fun, and their turn to stone bit is enough to give them a semblance of control. A fun novel that explores the concept of the monster city is Queen of Stone.

[Arcangel4774]

Much like how goblin and hobgoblins are cohabitants, it might be interesting to have other groups that live together.

Maybe a scale district that has kobolds and yuan-ti. Although I'm not certain those races would get along.

[Temperjoke]

What about under the city? The sewers likely has a community, there might even an underground unspoken neutrality, sort of "our lives are miserable enough, no sense making it worse" or maybe enforced by organized criminals. There might even be a deep city, with monsters that would normally be seen in the Underdark living there, ignored by the above monsters. There will likely be a black market, where things are traded between the monster communities that are condemned by the community leaders, but necessary for getting by. If water is as limited as you say, then that would probably be what the currency of the city developed around, like around tokens who's value represents a certain portion of water, redeemable at one of these Gnoll cleric temples or city distribution points. There might also be groups exploring in an attempt to discover a new source of water. In fact, with the Gnolls possessing that much power, it's possible the Dragon might view them suspiciously as a necessary danger, since they have control of a resource vital to the city, that gives them a power rival to his own, since they could decide to turn the people against the dragon.

[BDRook]

In fact, with the Gnolls possessing that much power, it's possible the Dragon might view them suspiciously as a necessary danger, since they have control of a resource vital to the city, that gives them a power rival to his own, since they could decide to turn the people against the dragon.

I like the secret underground stuff! But as far as the Dragon viewing the gnolls as a threat...it's an elder blue dragon. If the gnolls were to grow a pair and revolt he could pretty much lay waste to their entire sector with the help of the other factions, as everyone pretty much hates them. I figure as long as they provide the water to him he'll let them keep their measly position of power, granted they still know who's boss.

[IShouldntBehere]

A city of monsters in the desert in the wake of humanity's conquest is a good idea, but this specific implementation just feels off to me.

These groups have all be forced out of their traditional homes to marginal land by a common enemy. Yet their relations somehow are at this very specific level where they're friendly (or at least non-hostile) enough to band together and form a single city, but somehow still stand off-ish and confrontational enough that they have rigidly divided districts that shall not be passed on pain of death? With really on-the-nose-names relating to their body parts.

It feels kind of artificial. Like the idea for a city of monsters with different districts came first and the rest of the justification was fitted around it. Not saying that was the case but it feels that way. I feel like I'm reading the starting screen for a faction-based PvP game or something. Not that it's inherently a bad thing if that's what you're going for, but if you want this to be an organic feeling piece of a broader world I think it could stand for some retooling.

[Temperjoke]

I like the secret underground stuff! But as far as the Dragon viewing the gnolls as a threat...it's an elder blue dragon. If the gnolls were to grow a pair and revolt he could pretty much lay waste to their entire sector with the help of the other factions, as everyone pretty much hates them. I figure as long as they provide the water to him he'll let them keep their measly position of power, granted they still know who's boss.

It's a risk though, the dragon needs the monsters to do the searching for him, but if the gnolls turn the other monsters on him by refusing to generate water for the monsters, then the dragon has an entire city rising up, including the ones who are serving as his guard, since the gnolls are the only ones providing water according to you. So it's a stalemate of sorts. I'm not saying it's an immediate danger, but the dragon should be paranoid enough to recognize the risk, and want to find ways to mitigate it, whether it's with a party of adventurers he could capture and force to spend the rest of their lives creating water, or negotiate with to weaken the strength of the gnolls.

There would probably be other unofficial channels of trade into the city. Human criminal groups would be willing to smuggle water in exchange for gold, or things that the monsters can provide. On the other hand, there are also military forces dedicated to monitoring the city, preparing for a opportunity to destroy the city, once and for all. They may not want to let an adventuring party in, for fear of what could happen to the delicate balance.

EDIT:


A city of monsters in the desert in the wake of humanity's conquest is a good idea, but this specific implementation just feels off to me.

These groups have all be forced out of their traditional homes to marginal land by a common enemy. Yet their relations somehow are at this very specific level where they're friendly (or at least non-hostile) enough to band together and form a single city, but somehow still stand off-ish and confrontational enough that they have rigidly divided districts that shall not be passed on pain of death? With really on-the-nose-names relating to their body parts.

It feels kind of artificial. Like the idea for a city of monsters with different districts came first and the rest of the justification was fitted around it. Not saying that was the case but it feels that way. I feel like I'm reading the starting screen for a faction-based PvP game or something. Not that it's inherently a bad thing if that's what you're going for, but if you want this to be an organic feeling piece of a broader world I think it could stand for some retooling.

This is a good point, it could be that they were forcefully relocated under some sort of negotiated treaty or something, perhaps even something that was manipulated by the dragon in disguise.

[BDRook]

It's a risk though, the dragon needs the monsters to do the searching for him, but if the gnolls turn the other monsters on him by refusing to generate water for the monsters, then the dragon has an entire city rising up, including the ones who are serving as his guard, since the gnolls are the only ones providing water according to you. So it's a stalemate of sorts. I'm not saying it's an immediate danger, but the dragon should be paranoid enough to recognize the risk, and want to find ways to mitigate it, whether it's with a party of adventurers he could capture and force to spend the rest of their lives creating water, or negotiate with to weaken the strength of the gnolls.


YOU! I like the way you think! Lol that's totally going in the plans for the city.

[IShouldntBehere]

This is a good point, it could be that they were forcefully relocated under some sort of negotiated treaty or something, perhaps even something that was manipulated by the dragon in disguise.

Except, that's a really bizarre treaty. Who sets the terms "You all shall build a city together! And continue to hate each other and divide up the city like a pizza-pie and you gotta kill anyone not in their slice and..." nobody benefits from that. Not the humans, not the monsters in the city, the dragon would need a darned specific reason.

This arrangement feels so incredibly unnatural that any justification just seems to raise more questions than provide answers. The monster city is a good idea but I think the whole faction-district-pizza-pie aspect element is challenging to salvage. There is still plenty of room for racial tension and for PCs to be a destabilizing force without being in this situation:


http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/3/3d/Junkyard_Map.jpg

[BDRook]

Except, that's a really bizarre treaty. Who sets the terms "You all shall build a city together! And continue to hate each other and divide up the city like a pizza-pie and you gotta kill anyone not in their slice and..." nobody benefits from that. Not the humans, not the monsters in the city, the dragon would need a darned specific reason.

This arrangement feels so incredibly unnatural that any justification just seems to raise more questions than provide answers. The monster city is a good idea but I think the whole faction-district-pizza-pie aspect element is challenging to salvage. There is still plenty of room for racial tension and for PCs to be a destabilizing force without being in this situation:



The big **** off dragon set the treaty. It's do as I say and find me this library or I exterminate your entire species. That or leave the desert and get exterminated by humanity for your previous transgressions. Its less of a city, and more of a city wide jail for these monsters who can't go anywhere else, and could get vaporized by the warden for the slightest act of aggression. But if they do help him, he'll give them access to the information in the library that could help them set up their foothold in humanity again. Until then they just have to have a savage co-existence with monsters that never should be within arms reach of each other, hence being sectioned off from each other.

Now maybe the party could convince them to band together for one final assault to take care of the Dragon, and then leave them to their own devices, but that's up to the party if they want to do that. I'm laying groundwork for possible storylines within the city.

[Temperjoke]

Except, that's a really bizarre treaty. Who sets the terms "You all shall build a city together! And continue to hate each other and divide up the city like a pizza-pie and you gotta kill anyone not in their slice and..." nobody benefits from that. Not the humans, not the monsters in the city, the dragon would need a darned specific reason.

This arrangement feels so incredibly unnatural that any justification just seems to raise more questions than provide answers. The monster city is a good idea but I think the whole faction-district-pizza-pie aspect element is challenging to salvage. There is still plenty of room for racial tension and for PCs to be a destabilizing force without being in this situation:



Part of that is because it seems to have happened all at once. It could have been a gradual thing. For example, the gnolls could have already been there, gnolls are commonly found in the desert. From the north, the minotaur tribe was gradually pushed into the desert because of expanding human/human-allies (no mention has been made of dwarves, elves, etc.), the minotaur managed to come to terms with the gnolls by offering them sacrifices taken from caravans and such. The Goblins/Hobgoblins could have been a horde that had developed and lost in a major conflict. The winners were debating what to do with them, since killing them on the battlefield was one thing, no one wanted to be responsible for murdering the survivors. The Blue Dragon, in disguise, and already contemplating how to search of this library, speaks about putting them into the desert and containing them there, like with the gnolls and minotaur, in hopes that they kill each other at the very least. This then became the general punishment for monsters who fell afoul of the law, but didn't commit a crime heinous enough for execution, like theft. The Blue Dragon sweeps in and takes firm control of the monsters, unbeknownst to the humans that he is the power in the city.

Each of the districts isn't necessarily a huge area either, the neutral area could be the largest section, with the various districts being little more than a cul-de-sac. And when we say city, we really mean grandiose ruins, where time has taken it's toll, no one has the resources to repair anything beyond basic fixes, but at least it's better than being in the open desert.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Except, that's a really bizarre treaty. Who sets the terms "You all shall build a city together! And continue to hate each other and divide up the city like a pizza-pie and you gotta kill anyone not in their slice and..." nobody benefits from that. Not the humans, not the monsters in the city, the dragon would need a darned specific reason.
You're over-thinking things. The treaty would be between the monsters and the humans and it would go: "We get your land and instead of killing you, you all move to this one city in the desert, where the land isn't worth anything. No we don't care that you're from separate areas and have a long history of killing one another, you're all monsters to us, so you all go in the same city."

Then the monsters, who hate the humans but still hate each other as well carve the city into districts. I do agree that death for trespassing is a bit much, though.

[Dr. Cliché]

Okay, I have a few suggestions here:

1) Make the districts looser and less formal. They'll probably occur naturally anyway - with most creatures preferring to live amongst their own kind. However, these districts shouldn't be off limits to other races (a gnoll walking into the minoaur district shouldn't be instantly ripped to shreds). Instead, simply have it that any race entering another district had better be on his best behaviour. In the same way that a human in a Dwarf bar probably shouldn't ask for a short. :smallwink:

However, there are always going to be individuals (or even groups) who are different. Perhaps some goblins prefer the Horn District. Perhaps some Gnolls want to go treasure-hunting with the Kenku.

Also, this could be a form of conflict, with races forever arguing about district boundaries and attempting to expand into the districts of others. This is especially likely if the city districts aren't based on any natural boundaries (though, even if it is, there could always be arguments about which district owns the river or whatever that separates them).

I'd also suggest that each district have an official leader, who reports to the dragon as and when necessary.

2) Make the neutral section the largest part of the city. The various races all have things that the others want - so it stands to reason that they'd also need a place to exchange these services. Hence, the neutral area will be where most of the business in the city takes place and where the races can meet without one having the upper hand.

Now, it is possible that each race might have 'private' markets in their own district (ones not for other races), but these are likely to be relatively small compared to the ones in the neutral part (not least because they're starting off with 1/4 of the potential customers).

3) Consider whether any citizens may plot to have the dragon removed, so that he/she can rule in its stead. Or, if not the dragon, then the dragon's right-hand man or suchlike.

4) What about races that aren't any of the races you mentioned. Do Mind Flayers come to the city to bargain for eldritch texts? Do any lycanthropes live amongst the gnolls? Are there any humans there, either fleeing the law or simply trying to gain power (or even the favour of the dragon)? Are there any undead in the city (intelligent or otherwise)?


Basically, I would have the 4 districts thing as the ideal, but then have the city be far less 'neat' and also in a state of flux.

[IShouldntBehere]

You're over-thinking things. The treaty would be between the monsters and the humans and it would go: "We get your land and instead of killing you, you all move to this one city in the desert, where the land isn't worth anything. No we don't care that you're from separate areas and have a long history of killing one another, you're all monsters to us, so you all go in the same city."

Then the monsters, who hate the humans but still hate each other as well carve the city into districts. I do agree that death for trespassing is a bit much, though.

Except I'm really not thinking about it much at all. This is really just my first-pass impressions how'd I'd react if this came up in a game I was a player in, or setting guide I was reading. It's all just seems to forced at surface level it seems like I'd have to do a lot of considering and thinking to make it work.

If instead of what was purposed we had say

"The Black district, named for the giant tar pit that marks the northern perimeter. The Black District was largely settled by goblins and some Minotaurs. The goblins longstanding hatered of the kenku make it precarious for the bird men to enter. "

and

"The Southern quarter, located in the center of the city. The name long since having become a misnomer, as for many years the city has built to the south. As the city expands it becomes ever crowded and dirty. Populated primarily by the gnolls, it has many visitors but few residents of the other races, as both their cackling and smell make them poor neighbors.

would feel much more natural. Rather than "This is the Minotaur district founded by the Minotaur. It's called the horn district because Minotaur have horns and it's the Minotaur district. They kill anyone who enters who isn't a Minotaur because it's the Minotaur district and they aren't Minotaur"

[Arcangel4774]

It seems lots of people has issues with the naming of the districts. Maybe have those names be unofficial and be a consequence of racial tension rather than a deliberate move be the founders of the districts