War cleric channel divinity need fixing?

[poolio]

War cleric channel divinity: +10 to one attack, before knowing if it hit or not, recharge on short/long rest, later can give to another character for, once again, one attack.

Optimal use: works with spell attacks as well so a higher level inflict wounds or guiding bolt would probably be the best use of it, at least that's what I've seen others say, other then that a near sure fire hit doesn't do much for a single attack.

So does this need fixing? I've been thinking about it and have come up with and seen others solutions which would ether change it to turn a miss into a crit, which could do a hefty bit of damage with the right build or team, but really that's true with a lot that gets thrown around here, or have it give a small chance to hit buff but for a duration, like a round or even a minute, such as a +5 for a round of attacks or a +1, 2 or 3 to attacks and damage for a round, or like a second concentrationless bless, giving you, or later on one target, a +1d4 to attacks and/or damage.

I'm seeing all these numbers but I've never really been that good at the math aspect of this game lol

So I've come to you guys&gals for assistance, so what are some thoughts and opinions on the war clerics CD and possible fixes? if you think it even needs fixing. :smallsmile:

[BDRook]

Simply put, no it doesn't need fixing. It's a once per short rest ability that really won't break your campaign aside from making sure a single attack will hit.

[Theodoxus]

Hadn't really thought about it, though this might be a reason that War never really stood out for me as a cleric option.

The limitation does appear small, but when placed alongside the other domain CD options, it's on par, as far as I can tell.

Making it a duration buff akin to Knowledge would be the most I'd do - and then, I'd deal with it exactly the same way: Expertise in combat. 10 minutes is probably too strong, but then, in combat, there's not a lot of difference between 1 minute and 10... unless you're popping doors in a dungeon or castle or something, generally you go longer than 10 minutes between encounters...

So, I guess, Combat Expertise (doubling of Proficiency Bonus to attacks) for 10 minutes would be the change. With that, I could see War finally moving up to join Life and Tempest as a 'go to' domain.

[Waffle_Iron]

Something to keep in mind: The cleric needs to declare use before knowing if the attack hit or not, but AFTER the roll occurs. If you are paying attention, you have a good chance of knowing whether the attack was a hit or not anyway, or if you roll very well/poorly you can know not to bother. Our table's war cleric uses the feature to good effect regularly.

[Ruslan]

I don't think it needs fixing. The ability is fair, one miss is changed into a hit per short rest. Cool, useful, not gamebreaking.


Something to keep in mind: The cleric needs to declare use before knowing if the attack hit or not, but AFTER the roll occurs. If you are paying attention, you have a good chance of knowing whether the attack was a hit or not anyway, or if you roll very well/poorly you can know not to bother.
Yes. Optimal use of the ability is when you roll between 3 and 5 on the d20 (against all typical enemies, 3-5 is a miss, but 13-15 is a hit)

[DKing9114]

I'd say it's a pretty fair ability. Particularly after level 6, when the cleric can cast it twice per short rest as a reaction to "fix" an ally's roll. Useful when your high damage dealing allies need to hit the enemy sorcerer right now, before his next fireball hits the party.

[poolio]

Something to keep in mind: The cleric needs to declare use before knowing if the attack hit or not, but AFTER the roll occurs. If you are paying attention, you have a good chance of knowing whether the attack was a hit or not anyway, or if you roll very well/poorly you can know not to bother. Our table's war cleric uses the feature to good effect regularly.

I think this is a good alternative, cause the war cleric isn't going to necessarily be doing a ton of damage with a single hit, so making sure one hit lands isn't going to do much, but helping to land at least a couple attacks is a much better use and would help to make the war cleric stand out as a better choice for some builds.

So just curious what you also think about the war clerics other domain feature "War priest" cause it's not like any of the clerics have any trouble finding a use for their bonus action, would you change it to not involve attacking in the first place? Or from being a bonus action to just being an extra action to attack with? Chamge it all together? Or just leave it as is? :smalltongue:

[Krivelios]

Simply put, no it doesn't need fixing. It's a once per short rest ability that really won't break your campaign aside from making sure a single attack will hit.

Agreed. One attack per rest is really ok.

[Lombra]

War cleric is already pretty solid, dosn't need more strength IMO.

[Talionis]

Yeah, I'd just copy the Paladin ability. I think it's one minute and it's their Charisma bonus to hit. Just change it to Wisdom.

[Potato_Priest]

No Fix Required. I played alongside a great weapon master cleric and he put this feature to good use alongside his -5 to hit +10 to damage. You only need to use it when you're pretty sure you are going to miss, and you get it back on a short rest. Given the length of a typical combat encounter, it's pretty decent. Let's say your combat lasts for 3 turns. If you're a war cleric using your bonus attacks, that's 6 attack rolls. Turning one miss into a hit improves your damage a substantial amount in such a short combat, and 2 uses helps you even further. Couple that with the fact that you can eventually use it to help the party member with the best damage per hit and it's quite a decent option. Certainly preferable to "charm animals and plants" in 98% of situations.

[ApplePen]

I use this in conjunction with a great weapon fighter, and it works wonders.

Most of the time he can land solid hits on enemies, and deal that sweet +10 damage per shot... But he doesn't want to risk it. So with me around, he knows he can make those attacks with the -5, because I can at any moment swing it into a +5 total.

When he's got a 20 STR, +4 competence and +3 from the weapon itself, a +10 means he hits just about anything, even with a -5, and the stuff he would miss, he would have missed anyhow.

Makes for great nova rounds.

[Willie the Duck]

I would put the war cleric mid-range amongst the clerics in overall power, but near the top in ease of use. The cleric in general is a little tricky to use (especially in, say, a dungeon environment where you are constantly second guessing yourself on whether to hold back, use a short-rest recharge ability, or use a long-rest one). At least compared to 3e and before, where you healed mostly out of combat and otherwise picked up a mace (or best weapon available, given specific type of cleric), shield and went in swinging, possibly with buffs. The whole bless, spiritual weapon, spirit guardian + figuring out how to maximize the output from those thing that clerics do in low-to-upper-middle levels is much more of a high-planning character (not unlike the battlemaster for fighters). If they had made some of the iconic combat spells less useful, and then stripped down some of the war cleric's abilities but then gave them extra attack, they would be simpler to run (but look an awful lot like just an alternative paladin).

[Spellbreaker26]

War Clerics are not particularly powerful after level 1-3. They have decent domain spells and abilities, but they have no synergy since their extra attacks eat the bonus action that they need to use spiritual weapon. Really, if you depower this you'll make them outright worse than other domains since their good channel divinities are one of the things that keeps them competitive.