Arcane reanimation?

[Mindstab_Thrull]

Howdy folks..

So I've been toying with a new build for a Gestalt game, but thankfully both my DM and the party are quite amenable to the "build looks fun!" routine rather than the "build must be optimal!" way of doing things, so I got to do things like have a 9th-level Catfolk Monk//Cleric of Celerity/Travel with a speed of 80, for example. The build I'm currently going for is an arcane healer (Bard//Sorcerer with Arcane Disciple) but my biggest hitch is coming up with spells to reanimate dead people - Raise Dead, Resurrection, and the like. I'm starting at level 1 so I'm not worried about getting it "yet", but I'd like to have a way without having to rely on simply Limited Wish or Wish to bring the dead back to life. Thus far I've found Revenance as a temporary measure as a 6th-level Bard spell. Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

Mindstab Thrull
Nomming ur sanities since 1864 BSE (Before the Sarpadian Empires)

[KillingAScarab]

As bard is going to be one of the components of your gestalt, this will give you access to use magic device as a class skill, which will make it possible to use scrolls of divine spells such as raise dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm), or a wand of reincarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm) if your subject doesn't have to come back as the same creature. If you were in Pathfinder the false priest archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/razmiran-priest) for sorcerers would give one-half your sorcerer level as a bonus to UMD checks, but still wouldn't give you the ability to bring back the dead with your own spell list.

[Inevitability]

There's the 7th-level Wu Jen spell aptly called 'Reanimation'. Note that while it does bring people back, they return as feeble forgetful shamblers. The spell seems mostly useful in keeping people alive long enough to kill them again then apply a proper Resurrection.

Also, you could just get the magic in question with Extra Spell (Raise Dead). Your 12th-level feat can get you it. Extra Spell (Resurrection) is available with your 15th-level feat.

[Vizzerdrix]

What about that changeling prc that gets to add any spell to their list, or a drake helm?

[A.A.King]

How about Divine Bard?

Okay, I realise you said you wanted an Arcane Healer, but being a Divine Bard doesn't really make your character any more religious than the Arcane Disciple feat does (other than changing your spells into being Divine Spells). Usually the big downside of Divine Bard is that your casting stats are split, Wisdom to see if you can cast a spell level and Charisma for everything else but you already require both of those stats to be high anyway (Charisma for your sorcerer stats and and Wisdom to see if you can cast the spells you pick-up from the Arcane Disciple feat)

In the mean time Divine bard gives you acces to the following spells a healer might want:
Cantrip: Cure minor wounds,
4th Level: Remove disease
5th Level: Restoration
6th Level: Raise dead.
The Raise dead comes online a little late, but having it on your class list means you can use Scrolls without having to make a UMD check.

Can I also ask which domain you intend to pick-up with Arcane Disciple? I am assuming "Healing" but if you were to pick-up the Renewal domain (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_Renewaldomain&alpha=) from The Player's Guide to Faerun your domain would contain at least the following Healer spells:
2nd Level: Restoration, Lesser
3rd Level: Remove Disease
4th Level: Reincarnate (Basically a more fun version of the Raise Dead Spell)
7th Level: Restoration, Greater
(The Renewal Domain is an alternative to my Divine Bard suggestion)

Finally, can I point you into the direction of the Domain Acces ACF from Complete Champion, it is an ACF for Sorcerers which allows them acces to one domain (which includes the Domain Granted Power). This ACF doesn't even require you to have a high wisdom.

[Zanos]

Depending on your definition of reanimated, create undead can create corpse and bone creatures, which retain their intelligence and class levels.

[Mindstab_Thrull]

How about Divine Bard?

[Reasonable reasoning for taking one.]

Nice idea but the UA as a whole is banned. So it's highly unlikely I'd be able to take a Divine Bard.


Can I also ask which domain you intend to pick-up with Arcane Disciple? I am assuming "Healing" but if you were to pick-up the Renewal domain (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_Renewaldomain&alpha=) from The Player's Guide to Faerun your domain would contain at least the following Healer spells:
2nd Level: Restoration, Lesser
3rd Level: Remove Disease
4th Level: Reincarnate (Basically a more fun version of the Raise Dead Spell)
7th Level: Restoration, Greater
(The Renewal Domain is an alternative to my Divine Bard suggestion)

I did go with Healing but Arcane Disciple is a feat you can take multiple times, and I've only got until about 9th level figured out. Beyond that, my feats are all available. So I could take Arcane Disciple in another Domain. At this point though the closest I can find that fits for bringing people back from the dead as a Domain spell is, well, Miracle.


Finally, can I point you into the direction of the Domain Acces ACF from Complete Champion, it is an ACF for Sorcerers which allows them acces to one domain (which includes the Domain Granted Power). This ACF doesn't even require you to have a high wisdom.

I like this one. I sacrifice a 1st and 2nd level spell known for 9 "fixed" spells known added to my list, and the granted power. If I can find an appropriate Domain I'll gladly take it.

As to other responses:
- I'll take UMD if I have to. My character's human so I can probably get a way into getting a given skill as an always-known.
- Do feats and other abilities that grant extra spells (see Dire_Stirge's and Vizzerdrix's posts) actually work to get you a spell you can't normally have? Or is this very much a "DM's discretion" thing?
- And no, I mean bringing people back to life, not raising them as undead ;)

Thanks for the feedback!
Mindstab Thrull
Im in ur brainz, nommin ur sanities

[Vaern]

I was going to recommend looking for a resurrection spell available via Arcane Disciple, but I see that's already been covered.

On a side note, combining Arcane Disciple with the Touch of Healing feat is a nice way to get free heals on a straight arcane caster.
Touch of Healing is a reserve feat, meaning you can use it indefinitely for free as long as you have a healing spell of second level of higher available to cast. The down side is that it will only heal up to half of the target's max health, but I mean, it's still free healing that'll save you valuable spell slots in the long run :p

[Kelb_Panthera]

Extra spell doesn't work like that. If an ability grants you a new spell known; regardless of whether it's a feat, class feature, or some other thing; you still have to choose from your own class list unless otherwise specified by the ability. Extra spell doesn't say you can go off-list, so you can't.

[Vizzerdrix]

- Do feats and other abilities that grant extra spells (see Dire_Stirge's and Vizzerdrix's posts) actually work to get you a spell you can't normally have? Or is this very much a "DM's discretion" thing?

Hurray! I am acnowledged! Sometimes I wonder if no one else can see my posts. :smallsmile:

Anyways, Im rather sure that the two options I pointed out specifically say any spell from any list. The only down side is one is race specific, and the other is setting specific, and expensive.

Now, didnt I see a type of undead that kept the persons personallity intact or something? You could at least use that to buy time to get to a healer or finish the current mission.

[KillingAScarab]

Now, didnt I see a type of undead that kept the persons personallity intact or something? You could at least use that to buy time to get to a healer or finish the current mission.Gentle repose (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gentleRepose.htm) is on the sorcerer/wizard spell list. It's a spell level higher than it is for a cleric, but still low enough to be placed on a wand. It seems quite a bit more reasonable than turning your dead friend into an undead creature.

[ShurikVch]

Death Pact is a 8th level spell in Pact domain; gives contingent true resurrection at the cost of 2 Con

Also, you can get whole spell list via Rainbow Servant or Eldritch Master PrCs

Dark Resurrection - 7th level Sorcerer/Wizard spell - costs 3000 XP; official adaptation from the Call of Cthulhu

[Mindstab_Thrull]

So first, the relevant feats I'm looking at for this character:



ARCANE DISCIPLE [GENERAL]

Choose a deity, and then select a domain available to clerics of that deity. You can learn to cast the spells associated with that domain as arcane spells.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, able to cast arcane spells, alignment matches your deity’s alignment.

Benefit: Add the chosen domain’s spells to your class list of arcane spells. If you have arcane spellcasting ability from more than one class, you must pick which arcane spellcasting ability this feat applies to. Once chosen, this decision cannot be changed for that feat.

You may learn these spells as normal for your class; however, you use Wisdom (rather than the normal ability for your spellcasting) when determining the save DC for the spell. In addition, you must have a Wisdom score equal to 10 + the spell’s level in order to prepare or cast a spell gained from this feat.

Each day, you may prepare (or cast, if you cast spells without preparation) a maximum of one of these domains spells of each level.

Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time, you must select a different domain available to the same deity you chose the first time you selected the feat. For example, a character who chose Heironeous and the Good domain with his first selection could choose Law or War with successive selections of the same feat. He couldn’t choose Protection, since that domain isn’t available to clerics of Heironeous.



".. Not content with a mere verbal promise, the existing disciples require that prospective students submit to a mark of justice spell that activates if they reveal the secrets to anyone who has not sworn a similar vow. The mark of justice takes the form of a small tattoo on the left shoulder blade."

MASTERY OF DAY AND NIGHT

You have learned to calculate the precise locations of Irian and Mabar at any given time, and to use that knowledge to enhance your manipulation of positive and negative energy.

Prerequisite: Knowledge (the planes) 2 ranks, Spellcraft 6 ranks, Maximize Spell.

Benefit: You can spontaneously apply the effect of the Maximize Spell metamagic feat to any cure or inflict spell you cast. Doing this has no effect on the spell's level or casting time.

At this point, I have the character written up as a Human Stalwart Sorcerer//Bard, taking Healing Hymn in lieu of the fascinate bardic ability. The biggest issue is that Arcane Disciple requires you to have a Deity that you follow, and I went through a fairly thorough list of Deities that have Healing as a Domain to see what other options I had. Here's what I came up with for other available Domains:

Air, Animal, Artifice, Cavern, Chaos, Charity (DR 355), Charm, Chastity (DR 355), Craft, Death, Destiny, Dragon, Dwarf, Earth, Evil, Family, Feast, Fire, Generosity (DR 355), Glory, Gluttony, Gnome, Good, Humility (DR 355), Knowledge, Law, Luck, Lust, Magic, Moon, Orc, Plant, Portal, Pride, Protection, Radiance (DR 321), Rune, Sloth, Strength, Suffering, Summer (Sandstorm), Sun, Temperance (DR 355), Travel, Trickery, Water, Winter (Frostburn), Zeal (DR 355)

(I've not yet talked to the DM about taking Domains that come from Dragon Magazine, but I included those for completeness.)

From what I can tell, in none of those do I get the ability to bring someone back from the dead. And the biggest hiccup is finding a deity that has both Healing and one of those Domains, as per the Arcane Disciple feat (see under Special), otherwise I'd simply take a second dot of Arcane Disciple -- unless someone knows a Deity with both this Domain and Pact (or another Domain).

Vaern: Already looked at Resurrection, not finding it - though it's possible I missed it going through the list initially, since I was just looking for "interesting spells" rather than resurrecting at the time. Feel free to prod me if I missed it! ALSO, good catch on the Touch of Healing feat. I might add that to my list of options available for this character.

ShurikVch Re: Death Pact -- Now I need to find a Deity that has both Healing and Pact as Domains. That's the hard part.
-- It looks like Eldritch Master is a Prestige Class from Dragon Magazine. Is it in any other sources?
-- Also, where do I find Dark Resurrection? I've looked online (though not for a long time) for the spell but wasn't able to find it. If it's third-party, my DM may disallow it.

And Vizzerdrix: If you can find the Prestige Class you were talking about, I'd have a better clue about viability. I don't know any Changeling PrC's off the top of my head, but then I've only barely touched Eberron ever, mostly just because some Handbook or other pointed out an option from it. ^_^

Did I miss anything?
Thanks y'all!

Mindstab Thrull
*looks up at Endrek Sahr hungrily* When's lunch?

[Vizzerdrix]

Looked it up. Recaster from races of eberron. Expanded knowledge says any spell from any list. You get it twice in 5 levels.

[Fuzzy McCoy]

Why not take the "I know a guy" approach? Planar binding will get trumpet archons and eladrins which cast as 14th level clerics. That gets you to resurrection. Alternatively check the summoner's handbook; several celestial beings have a raise dead sla.

[ShurikVch]

Death Pact -- Now I need to find a Deity that has both Healing and Pact as Domains. That's the hard part.AFAIK, no such deities; you may try feats - such as Heretic of the Faith or Customize Domain, worship the ideal, or some PrC with "expanded knowledge" - Recaster, Wyrm Wizard (Dragon Magic), or Fiend-Blooded (Heroes of Horror)

-- It looks like Eldritch Master is a Prestige Class from Dragon Magazine. Is it in any other sources?Unfortunately, no - magazine only

-- Also, where do I find Dark Resurrection? I've looked online (though not for a long time) for the spell but wasn't able to find it. If it's third-party, my DM may disallow it.No, it's not a third party - it's from Call of Cthulhu d20 - published by the Wizards of the Coast, and have section about how to adapt it to D&D game:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8n63Wmp4J6s/UBwDcQEUnqI/AAAAAAAAA3Q/jAVdLjl2hss/s1600/as.jpg
Also, Dungeon Magazine #134 have adventure "And Madness Followed", which centered around the Yellow Sign (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Sign)

[Darrin]

Why not take the "I know a guy" approach? Planar binding will get trumpet archons and eladrins which cast as 14th level clerics. That gets you to resurrection. Alternatively check the summoner's handbook; several celestial beings have a raise dead sla.

Lesser planar binding can get you a Hollyphant, which has raise dead as an SLA. Or you can get lesser planar ally from the Summoning domain, if not from the Sorcerer ACF then maybe from Planar Touchstone/Catalogues of Enlightenment (if Knowledge: the planes is problematic, try the Touchstone feat from Sandstorm, which can link to planar sites). The Higher Order power lets you cast a spell from the domain.

[Mindstab_Thrull]

So, talked it over with my DM, and under Recaster there's the Adaptation paragraph which suggests ways for non-Changelings to take the class - which he ok'ed. So I'm able to enter as a human follower of Pelor. Planning on taking Recaster 1 on the Bard side and 2-5 on the Sorcerer side.

Thanks for the feedback y'all!

[Jack_Simth]

Also of note: A Sorcerer can just take the spell!

If you go through the Core caster classes, most of them have wording in their spells section that goes like:
"A bard casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bard spell list."
"A cleric casts divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric spell list."
"A druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list."
"Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list."
"Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list."
"A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."

The Sorcerer, however, is different!
"A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list." (emphasis added) and includes an additional supporting clause a bit later: "These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study."

Try pointing this out to your DM. The fix-it spells aren't exactly gamebreakers, and the fluff of Sorcerers suggests dragons... many of which can take Cleric spells as Sorcerer spells known.