This spell book, its over 9000!

[Wraithy]

(i'm not sur if the wording of my quote is correct, its been ages since I watched DBZ)
several members of my party have suddenly started hating wizards, seing as I am one (sort of, ultimate magus), I now need to find ways to make my spellbook invincible (one of them has improved sunder).
So far its not a book, its a long scroll, with a case of 1/2inch think waterproofed adamantine for a scroll case. now that I have a place to build on, I need more ways to protect it, i'm paranoid that someone will steal it from me!!!
I only have 1500gp left for defences etc. any ideas?

[B!shop]

Try to include the case inside some other different item (i.e. a quartestaff, as backpack handle or something similar).
So they cannot destroy something the don't recognize as spellbook.

By the way, ask your DM if you'll be allowed to use some different spellbook item (somewhere I've read of crystals used as spellbooks, cannot remember where sorry)

[Inyssius Tor]

Tattoo it onto your skin, as per the rules in Complete Arcane.

[Anxe]

Trap and arcane lock the scroll case. Have more than one scrollcase and some of them have explosive runes. Throw in some other illusory script duplicates into the mix. Write on Dragon Skin, it's much harder to sunder. Put your spellbook into some gloves of storing. That way they'll never find it if they search you. You've gotta keep the magic of the gloves secret though.

Sorry that some of these are more than 1,500 GP in cost, but they are all useful.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Tattoo it onto your skin, as per the rules in Complete Arcane.
This works best, of course, with a level of Geometer from the same book, which makes every spell take up a single page (or equivalent tattoo area) regardless of level. Otherwise, it gets unwieldy. Added bonus is that people in taverns can't crib your spellbook for personal use just because you're wearing short sleeves.

Without this, tattoos are simply an alternative to Spell Mastery for a few must-have emergency spells, like Teleport (to where you keep your backup spellbook) or Drawmij's Instant Summons (your backup spellbook.)

You did make a backup and put it somewhere secure, right? That should be your first step, especially if you can get to it quickly with a teleport spell.

[Jayabalard]

if you're a wizard, does that mean that you're a player, or are you the dm and this is a dmpc or bbeg?

If you're a player, your best bet is probably misdirection. Or... work with the party a little better so that they don't want to sunder your book. That way you won't need a spell book that is over 9000 (http://over9000.ytmnd.com/)

If it's the latter, then just give him plenty of backup spell books.

[Wraithy]

I'm a player, not a DM.

I might tattoo some essentials onto myself, but not all of them, because I'm an ultimate magus I have sorceror spells also, so it's not as much of a bother to lose my spellbook as it is to a pure wizard, it is just to avoid inconveinience.
its difficult to work together with my group because they tend to smash first, kill your PC second, apologise to you third saying "my character doesn't like that, i'm just roleplaying". on one hand it is a fair point, but on the other hand - wouldn't they try to argue with you about something first before killing you?

[Kurald Galain]

Leomund's Secret Chest.

Put a regular book in your inventory that contains explosive runes, sepia snakes, or other nastiness.

Cast Charm Person on the entire party.

Task a familiar with high escapive ability (dimdoor, planeshift, whatever) with guarding your spellbook.

Perma-enchant it with a wall of force.

[Tellah]

Step 1: Take Craft Wondrous Item.
Step 2: Learn or buy scrolls of alarm, greater teleport, and geas.
Step 3: Establish a secure stronghold.
Step 4: Make a touch-trigger trap on your spellbook. Whenever someone touches your spellbook without whispering the words "Welrub Chir," the trap casts geas on the toucher and greater teleports the spellbook to your stronghold. The geas can do whatever you like--I'm partial to having the fellow seek you out, unarmed and unarmored, and apologize.

[Rasumichin]

Step 1: Take Craft Wondrous Item.
Step 2: Learn or buy scrolls of alarm, greater teleport, and geas.
Step 3: Establish a secure stronghold.
Step 4: Make a touch-trigger trap on your spellbook. Whenever someone touches your spellbook without whispering the words "Welrub Chir," the trap casts geas on the toucher and greater teleports the spellbook to your stronghold. The geas can do whatever you like--I'm partial to having the fellow seek you out, unarmed and unarmored, and apologize.


Step 5 : Tell your fellow players that "i'm just roleplaying" is the poorest excuse for antisocial behaviour _ever_.

People who resort to this argumentation are generally liable for severe punishment (like bringing the beer and pretzels for the next gaming session).

After all, they are in controll of their characters' actions (if they believe they aren't, they obviously need professional help) and, for the sake of a fun gaming afternoon, it is their obligation to find ways of acting that are both reasonable for their PCs and enjoyable for all members of your group.

BTW, randomly sundering your comrades' possesions is something i haven't often encountered IRL.
Not certain wether they are mistaking "childish overacting" and "good roleplaying" either...but the amount of self-appointed "good roleplayers" who are completely unable to differentiate between the two is surprisingly high.



Still, securing your spellbook in the way described by Tellah (or some other way described in the various "securing spellbooks"-threads) is always a good idea, so you should do it even if you are able to actually talk some sense into your group.

[PsyBlade]

I like Tellah's idea.

[Dausuul]

Step 5 : Tell your fellow players that "i'm just roleplaying" is the poorest excuse for antisocial behaviour _ever_.

People who resort to this argumentation are generally liable for severe punishment (like bringing the beer and pretzels for the next gaming session).

After all, they are in controll of their characters' actions (if they believe they aren't, they obviously need professional help) and, for the sake of a fun gaming afternoon, it is their obligation to find ways of acting that are both reasonable for their PCs and enjoyable for all members of your group.

QFT. The correct answer to somebody who hides behind "I'm just roleplaying" is to ask, "Then why did you decide to play an obnoxious moron?"

You should really develop a habit of turning anybody who messes with your stuff into a toad. Then when they complain, you can say, "Look, my character doesn't like it when people try to screw him over and destroy his spellbooks... I'm just roleplaying."

[ndragonsbane]

If they go after you spellbook, just kill them ("my character doesn't like that, I'm just roleplaying) and use the loot to buy a better protected spellbook and a few smaller workbooks.

[Wraithy]

You should really develop a habit of turning anybody who messes with your stuff into a toad. Then when they complain, you can say, "Look, my character doesn't like it when people try to screw him over and destroy his spellbooks... I'm just roleplaying."

can't, our DM banned baleful polymorph, said it was overpowered (same goes with polymorph any object)

[Arbitrarity]

Baleful... polymorph... overpowered?!

Clearly, someone read the boards wrong. And polymorph isn't banned?

[Elana]

You should just go for the classic wizard look.

Rune covered robes....

just make sure one of the runes is a symbol of persuasion (Made permanent)
that is triggered whenever someone sees it.
(several runes on your person and possesion aren't a bad idea either)

And sooner or later they will fail their will saves against a 6th level spell that tries to charm evryone in 60' around you, whenever somebody sees the symbol.

Might take some time before they first fall under the effect, but if you play your cards right, they will never be able to avoid looking at you long enough for ever getting out of the influence of the spell.

[Wraithy]

Baleful... polymorph... overpowered?!

Clearly, someone read the boards wrong. And polymorph isn't banned?

the whole polymorph subschool has been banned by our DM (excluding disguise self)

[PlatinumJester]

I can guard it for you (5gp a day) but you get the first 30 days for free since you loaned me 100gp.

BUT

there is a spell in Spell Compendium which alters the appearance of a any page/piece of paper. So just alter it to look like a regular book/scroll.

[Ditto]

Sepia Snake Sigil isn't a bad trap, either. Blink dog is a nice improved familiar anyway, and is handy for dodgy things.

[Dark_Wind]

Disguise self isn't a polymorph spell. It's an illusion.

Baleful polymorph is nowhere near overpowered. Despite its name, it cannot be cheesed in the ways that polymorph and PAO can because it can't be used for buffing. It's just a transformation flavored save-or-lose spell. It's good, yeah, but broken?

Even if you can't use it, though, the best way to keep your party away from your spellbook (apart from, you know, trying to get them to behave like reasonable human beings), is to make sure that you can kill them if they try anything, and to do so when they do.

Really, though, this smells of OoC conflict being brought IC. Trying to resolve the issue OoC is a good idea.

[Inyssius Tor]

the whole polymorph subschool has been banned by our DM (excluding disguise self)

Ah, now that's reasonable.

[Behold_the_Void]

Find a new group that doesn't suck.

[JungeonJeff]

Less aggresive than other suggestions, but still. Complete Arcane has the Glamered quality to put on a spell book. Make the spellbook look like an ordinary object. it just has to be winthin 25% of you original size scroll-spellbook, and within 50% its weight, making a whole range of small ordinary objects within your grasp. :smallamused:

Only problem is that the price is 2000gp vs your current 1500gp :smallyuk:

[PlatinumJester]

Find a new group that doesn't suck.

Hey, we don't suck.

[SMDVogrin]

Hey, we don't suck.

If you're one of the people trying to screw over your own party member, yes, you do.

[Wraithy]

we're a group of 8 people, there are only 3 that act like Sh*ts most of the time.

face it platinum, we do suck.

[PlatinumJester]

If you're one of the people trying to screw over your own party member, yes, you do.

Well guess what! I'm not. The person who hates Wizards in our campaign is the one since he rips up all the scrolls and breaks all the wands.

[SMDVogrin]

Well guess what! I'm not. The person who hates Wizards in our campaign is the one since he rips up all the scrolls and breaks all the wands.

Excellent, there's a key troublemaker!

Cast Dominate Person on him one night. Have him strip naked, and then have him throw all his weapons, armor, and assorted gear off a cliff (preferably off a cliff into the ocean, off a cliff into a bottomless pit, or off a cliff into a Sphere of Annihilation).

Ask him whether _he_ finds this sort of dickery enjoyable.

[Yakk]

(i'm not sur if the wording of my quote is correct, its been ages since I watched DBZ)
several members of my party have suddenly started hating wizards, seing as I am one (sort of, ultimate magus), I now need to find ways to make my spellbook invincible (one of them has improved sunder).

I don't understand. If your character is aware that party members hate wizards, you could:
A> Strike first.
B> Run away.
or
C> Run away, then strike first.

Why would your character stay near someone who hates you enough to strike at your spellbook?


So far its not a book, its a long scroll, with a case of 1/2inch think waterproofed adamantine for a scroll case. now that I have a place to build on, I need more ways to protect it, i'm paranoid that someone will steal it from me!!!
I only have 1500gp left for defences etc. any ideas?

Sell walls of iron? :)

[PlatinumJester]

Or fly over a canyon and then use the regroup spell on him. That way his stuff is only mildly damaged and he is dead.

Seriously though, we probably won't kill him unless he attacks another PC.

[mostlyharmful]

use their own "it's what my character would do" against them, there's a spell in the new Waterdeep book, level 6 charm spell with permenant duration, he he he.... make an annoying character your stooge for life:smallbiggrin:

[tahu88810]

About that character...

Cast sleep on him, or wait till he goes to sleep.
Once hes asleep, cast hold person.
Steal all weapons, armor, etc.
Gauge out eyes, and chop off hands with dagger/rusty knife/something else.


That should keep him from doing anything.
---
And if he does sunder your spell book, get somebody to sunder his face. :)


---

Also, you could take leadership and have your cohort and followers defend it.

And if the party is on your side, you can all take guard shifts with the spell book.

---

Fire trap works too.

---

If all else fails, talk to 'im in OOC.
And if that doesn't work 'sunder' his legs in OOC. >:)

[Lolzords]

Tattoo it onto your skin, as per the rules in Complete Arcane.

Haha, that's great.

Wizard: I cast flesh to stone!
DM: Do you have that spell?
Wizard: *Pulls apart buttcheeks* Yup!

[PlatinumJester]

Ok, everyone stop trying to come up with ways to kill our Barbarian. As fun as these ways are to kill him we are not gonna kill anymore people in our party since to last sessions fiasco where 2 people died.

[Wraithy]

Wizard: I cast flesh to stone!
DM: Do you have that spell?
Wizard: *Pulls apart buttcheeks* Yup!

thats the verbal component, you don't want to know the somantic :smalleek:

[tahu88810]

Ok, everyone stop trying to come up with ways to kill our Barbarian. As fun as these ways are to kill him we are not gonna kill anymore people in our party since to last sessions fiasco where 2 people died.

My suggestion didn't involve murder.
It just involved crippling an illiterate magic hating psycho for life.
>:|

[PlatinumJester]

No crippling either.

[SMDVogrin]

Ok, everyone stop trying to come up with ways to kill our Barbarian. As fun as these ways are to kill him we are not gonna kill anymore people in our party since to last sessions fiasco where 2 people died.

That's pretty much why I recommended Dominating him into dumping his gear somewhere non-recoverable -- it's pretty much an exact parallel of what you say the Barb is doing (trashing the mage's stuff).

[tahu88810]

No crippling either.

Man, you guys really don't like to have fun, do you?

Alright...
than how about just keeping a hold person handy and never letting him do nightwatch alone?
And when you sleep hold your spell book like a teddybear?

[SilverClawShift]

So no killing or crippling a character who is gonna kill him?

Uh, hmm. I guess he could plane shift somewhere else entirely and start a new life?

*edit*

Or "Target his spellbook for destruction" which with a wizard is more like removing one of their lungs.

[Kurald Galain]

I think I just found the perfect solution, and appropriate to the comic, too.

Mark.
Of.
Justice.

[PlatinumJester]

"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"

Basically, killing people will cause tension amongst the group and that will be less fun than killing his character. Also that is the kind of thing he would do and we don't want to become him. So with killing him, we are killing our own enjoyment for some petty concerns.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I like Tellah's idea, but if you're high enough level I prefer replacing geas/quest with a Gate to the Abyss, making sure it's near a particularly nasty demon watering hole.

[Emperor Tippy]

"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"

Basically, killing people will cause tension amongst the group and that will be less fun than killing his character. Also that is the kind of thing he would do and we don't want to become him. So with killing him, we are killing our own enjoyment for some petty concerns.

If he is acting like this then either he is an idiot and should be dumped from the group or the group is mature enough to handle IC interparty conflict without it affecting the players out of character. So assuming that he isn't a retard who shoudl be dumped from the group and this is an entirely IC problem then the wizard shoudl be able to kill him or at least cripple him for a good long time.

[SilverClawShift]

Basically, killing people will cause tension amongst the group and that will be less fun than killing his character.

Wait, I'm confused? Killing the guy who hates wizards will cause tension, so killing the wizard is okay?

Please note that I'm not trying to be aggressive or rude I'm just really confused. The wizard can't defend himself from the angry barbarian, because it'd cause tension that way?

Doesn't sound like a very friendly game. No offense.

[hippie_dwarf]

Or fly over a canyon and then use the regroup spell on him. That way his stuff is only mildly damaged and he is dead.

Seriously though, we probably won't kill him unless he attacks another PC.

excuse me i didn't kill anyone or attack anyone nor did i provoke anyone to attack me/defend themselves in anyway

[Emperor Tippy]

excuse me i didn't kill anyone or attack anyone nor did i provoke anyone to attack me/defend themselves in anyway

Let's put it thsi way. If I was in a game with you and you threatened to destroy my wizards spell book you would be dead within a day short of extreme DM intervention.

[hippie_dwarf]

But I didn't threaten to do anything to anything or even try to do anything to the wizards spell book at all!

[Emperor Tippy]

But I didn't threaten to do anything to anything or even try to do anything to the wizards spell book at all!

Then you clearly aren't the person who thsi thread is about.

[ByeLindgren]

Maybe try a "You break it, you buy it" policy. If Mr. Party Conflict wants to break expensive equipment, he pays for it, plus a little tax for time and power lost. Dumb ol' swordy doesn't have the cash on hand? Looks like that +3 Thog Smash Greatsword becomes his collateral. He doesn't like that idea? Well, he'll like it better than getting squished and/or booted out by the rest of the party.

Of course, it's hard to squish 3 people at once, but 5/8 is still a majority.

[The Valiant Turtle]

Although outside your current budget, the glove of storing is an excellent approach to spell book security. Under the circumstances I would think the best approach would be having an In Character party discussion where you and everyone else in the party explain to Thog that should he destroy this item he will die a humiliating and painful death.

If he is destroying party gear (scrolls count) then I would do the same. My approach would be to wait until you find a nice magic item that he might want, and then telling him it's cursed and he needs to destroy it! He hates magic right? He would certainly want to destroy an evil cursed magic sword!

Ah, the fun of keeping divination spell information to yourself!

[Roog]

its difficult to work together with my group because they tend to smash first, kill your PC second, apologise to you third saying "my character doesn't like that, i'm just roleplaying".

Player like that seem to have no conception that character concept is OOC.

Which begs the question of them...

"So did you choose to make your character an asshat or did that just happen naturally?"

[Gavin Sage]

There is a spell in the Spell Compendium that creates a small box of force energy. I want to say forcechest but don't quote me on it. Its a portable, shaped wall of force for your spell book. I'm not dragging my book out for all the specifics though.

[Rofl-Falafal]

Your response should be dependant on what kinda of wizard you are playing (personality-wise).

If you're the "live to learn, screw those that inhibit me" type, you could do the whole arcane lock thing. However, knowing he's a barbarian with improved sunder, it doesn't sound like not being able to open it will deter him. Cast invisibility or stoneskin (does that work on items?) on the scroll case, or take a level of Bard and equip it it with a few strings. Then you can summon and dismiss it as you like because it's an "instrument".

On the other hand, if you play a compassionate wizard who uses his arcane power to benefit others you could always try to convert him back to liking wizards with useful spells. Always make a point of buffing him if you can, or enchanting his weapon or whatever. You have no idea how happy my group's rogue was when he found out there was such thing as Cat's Grace (he's new).

[Karsh]

Sounds to me like if the Barb's using IC reasons to try and screw you, you can use IC reasons to screw him.

Nothing serious, but just carry a few spare spellbooks with non-magical ink made to look like your book. Then, each morning, have all of them open in front of you. Kind of a Mirror Image for your spell book. Since the Barb is illiterate and probably has a low INT, he should be unable to figure out which book is actually yours.

If he continues to threaten to do it, cast Geas on him and make the Geas "Do not destroy or consider destroying the Wizard's things."

[Alleine]

"accidentally" blast him in battle every once in awhile. Not enough to kill, mind you, and make the excuse of "It killed them didn't it? You've got health to burn anyway"

[SMDVogrin]

excuse me i didn't kill anyone or attack anyone nor did i provoke anyone to attack me/defend themselves in anyway

Are you the barbarian in question? The one "who hates Wizards in our campaign is the one since he rips up all the scrolls and breaks all the wands"?

If so, you're an ****.

Now, I can think of at least two responses to some moron ripping up scrolls and breaking wands.
1. If the scrolls/wands already belong to your character, start breaking stuff of the barbarian's. Healing potions are always nice to dump out, and he really doesn't need those stat-boosting items. If all else fails, I already suggested throwing weapons and armor off a cliff.

2. If he's doing this to scrolls and wands you find as loot, before they can be claimed, time to start a "break it, you buy it" policy. Let him destroy what he wants - as long as all of it comes out of his chunk of party treasure. And since he's choosing what to destroy, that means he has already taken first pick of the party loot, so everyone else gets to pick their shares before he gets whatever's left of his share.

Hopefully, he will figure out not to screw over his buddies.

[Zeful]

My idea is to cast Reverse Gravity pushing the barbarian straight up. Cast fly and have a 'civil' talk with him, make it very clear that continuing to inhibit the "party's" well being by destroying useful magic devices you will start destroying his ranged weapons' ammo, his armor, then his ranged weapons, then his melee weapons, then cast Disjunction on him in the air, killing every single permanent effect on him. Then leave him in the air till the spell's duration runs out. If he dies because of the disjunction kills him later, shrug and loot his corspe as 'reparations for acts indangering myself and others.' It's nasty and unfair but if I were in your place, I'd have a slave and trapspringer, or a new skull bowl.

[Behold_the_Void]

Which reminds me, what level are you at and what spells DO you have access to?

[CASTLEMIKE]

Sounds like an interesting game with players like that in the party. He will probably provide you with a few memorable moments for later years.

Protecting your spellbook depends a lot on your level and means.

What is the player's alignment and creed that allows him to roleplay in this manner?

Talk with your DM regarding general anti spell book measures for his game. A wizard with out his spellbook is a NPC class as a very intelligent educated commoner. Keep those generally honest people honest. A house costs 1,000GP and a Grand House costs 5,000 GP.

Losing it for a single adventure can be interesting and memorable like if you upset the local thieve's guild unless you routinely leave it lying around in your room at the inn unattended. Otherwise other PCs gear should be targeted equally in game which gets old after a time.

Not letting the fighter types in to certain buildings in town or the town heavily armored and clunking around (Town and City ordinances PCs need a permit (GPs for the armor tax) or Knighthood or Nobility faking that status is usually a major crime.))

Having the town guard or other adventurers killing off the dangerous wild animal which just wandered into town unnoticed when the druids leave it unattended.

Having a bogus duplicate fake spell book(s) is usually a good idea. Having a few backup spells tattooed on your person and hidden with Illusionary Script isn't a bad idea in draconian campaigns.

Shrink Item can work on your real spellbook if you have access to the spell. It is even nicer with Illusionary Scripts.

It has the benefits of being inexpensive if you can cast it and then easy to hide.

[SMDVogrin]

use their own "it's what my character would do" against them, there's a spell in the new Waterdeep book, level 6 charm spell with permenant duration, he he he.... make an annoying character your stooge for life:smallbiggrin:

Which spell is this? Can't find anything that seems to fit this in my copy of City of Spendors...

[Solo]

You can always refuse to use magic to help him unless he rethinks his views about magic.

[JackMage666]

....But Baleful Polymorph is my favorite spell....... I always turn people into puppys, then give them to their rivals.

[Wraithy]

Which reminds me, what level are you at and what spells DO you have access to?

lets see, i've got 3lvls of wizard and 2 of sorceror (17int, 16cha), after the 2 adamantine armour plated scroll books, I have roughly 2000gp left to spend.
I don't think that the group's 3 resident wizard haters will be much of a problem because I'm not pure wizard, and I have very good bluff. at the moment I'm going to say that it is a codex which I devote at least a few hours a day studying, which fits quite well because the scrolls have a word lock on them.
as far as familiars guarding the scrolls goes, I was considering Making one of my classes have the companion variant which allows me to have a companion from one class, and a familiar from another, although I have no idea what companion I would get.

@JackMage666: he's made a point that the whole polymorph subschool has never existed. period. no amount of logic and argument can change that, besides, baleful polymorph is only 1 spell, its not the end of the world if I lose it, but it is the end of the world if my DM gets angry with me - at least in a D&D sense.

[Kurald Galain]

2. If he's doing this to scrolls and wands you find as loot, before they can be claimed, time to start a "break it, you buy it" policy.

Nah. Let him find a Staff of the Magi.

[Leon]

Well guess what! I'm not. The person who hates Wizards in our campaign is the one since he rips up all the scrolls and breaks all the wands.

Likes to break stuff huh, then give him a Staff of Power and tell him to agressivly break it - make sure your a good distance away


....But Baleful Polymorph is my favorite spell....... I always turn people into puppys, then give them to their rivals.

i prefer Toads - Bufos Hex


Want to keep all your stuff safe?
Answer: Get a Luggage

[shadowmage]

Well guess what! I'm not. The person who hates Wizards in our campaign is the one since he rips up all the scrolls and breaks all the wands.

It is quite easy to deal with him IC with out doing him any harm. He hates magic, so do not use any magic what so ever on him, buffs, or any magic to help him directly. I.E. if he is attacking someone do not cast any form of magic on the monsters he is attacking, if other party members are attacking the same creature then do it to help them not him. If he ask for a buff or why your not helping kill monsters he is attacking tell him you are respecting is dislike of magic.

If he is ripping up scrolls and breaking wands after the battle is over then request that what he destroyed come from his share of the treasure. As he hates magic so much he would rather take the scrolls and wands to destroy as his share of the treasure rather then take the nice +x magic weapon or armour, which he would not want to use any way as they are magic which he hates. Just take them as your share sale them and buy wants and scrolls you want.

[Kurald Galain]

Ooh, this can get nasty!

Barbarian falls into a pit. Wait, I'll levitate you out... oh no I can't, that's using magic on you!
Barbarian gets cursed by some monster. I can cast a remove curse spell... oh yeah! Magic!
Party has to travel through volcanoey lava environment. Let me cast "protection from fire" to prevent that 5 damage per round... oh yeah, not on you, you don't like magic!

This should get him to clue in. Or point him to barbarians in fantasy novels that use magic stuff.

(cue Eugene :smallwink: )

[Citizen Joe]

I'm assuming you're trying to protect your travelling books, but I have this suggestion (when you get enough money).

Create an archive of your spells by building a small structure someplace relatively safe. In the basement, put in a bunch of stone columns carve your spells into the stone columns as if they were simple decorations. Now, if your traveling book is destroyed, you can come back to the archive and rescribe them.

[Wraithy]

the idea of buying a house is actually quite a good one, i'll have spare books/ hidden carvings etc. there.
how much would a very modest house in a prosperous city cost?

[Citizen Joe]

simple house costs 1000 gp

Follow this link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm) to the bottom, there's a table there.

It isn't quite what you're looking for, but it is a start.

[Elana]

if I understood things right, only one magic hating barbarian is the problem.

Just make sure that if it comes to a conflict the other 6 are on your side.

(And if he destroys wands and scrolls, that should go out of his treasure share...since you can't determine how good the item was, just use the most expensive item of that kind. (So when he destroys a scroll, assume it had contained a wish spell and so on...maybe he will learn when he actually owes you more money after each adventure)

[Wraithy]

if I understood things right, only one magic hating barbarian is the problem.
Just make sure that if it comes to a conflict the other 6 are on your side.

he's allways backed up by the halfling rogue and the dwarf totemist (the dwarf is the sunderor...er....ar?).

anywho that isn't the main problem, the main thing is keeping my spellbook away from harm from NPCs and PCs alike.

[tahu88810]

he's allways backed up by the halfling rogue and the dwarf totemist (the dwarf is the sunderor...er....ar?).

anywho that isn't the main problem, the main thing is keeping my spellbook away from harm from NPCs and PCs alike.

NPCs too?
Does the DM hate you aswell?
if so, just find a new group...

[Wraithy]

naa, I'm not leaving the group, the DM isn't out to get me... well... except for sending hoards of monsters after me... there are just so many monsters... there must be some sort of manual of monsters he's referencing.

naa that's rediculous.

[Leon]

As long as your book doesn't weight more than 20lbs get your self a glove of storing to keep it close at hand

[Jack Mann]

Like they've said, whoever is breaking the wands and scrolls should get that much less treasure. If they actually try destroying your stuff, destroy theirs. Don't kill them or cripple them, but make sure that it hurts them at least as much as it hurts you.

Eventually, they'll get fed up with this and stop acting like morons.

[The_Werebear]

Here is an interesting idea that I fully admit to stealing from someone else on the boards (don't remember who, awesome idea whoever it was). Copy all your spells to a long silk scroll. Then, wrapping it carefully, wear it as sort of a diaper type contraption. No one will touch it. Ever.

If that is too much, you can get it copied onto a wider piece of cloth, and wear it as a toga instead. Either way, it never leaves your person, and people don't want to touch it, even to set fire to it.

[tainsouvra]

"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"

Basically, killing people will cause tension amongst the group and that will be less fun than killing his character. Also that is the kind of thing he would do and we don't want to become him. So with killing him, we are killing our own enjoyment for some petty concerns. So destroying all of the Wizard's equipment in a heavily equipment-based game doesn't cause tension in the group, eh? Nonsense, utter nonsense.

If you think about it a minute, killing off the offending character will cause less tension in the long run. At least then he will need to make a new character and the problem will stop, while letting him keep his character that hates his own party member will be tension every gaming session for the rest of the campaign.

Personally, though, I would handle it in-character:
Playing a lawful character, I would report him to the ruling power of the region for destruction of private property and intentionally engaging in an activity that compromises the safety of the realm--that's exactly what he's doing, and in-character it is illegal and likely to carry an extensive prison sentence (at best).
Playing a chaotic character, I would destroy one item of his, of equal value to what he destroyed of mine, until he either A) learned a lesson, B) left the party, or C) attacked me and thus made violence an acceptable recourse.

[warmachine]

Well guess what! I'm not. The person who hates Wizards in our campaign is the one since he rips up all the scrolls and breaks all the wands.
Such a character should be expelled from the party for roleplaying reasons. In a high magic world with huge monsters and high-level bad guys, you need all the magic you can get. The party and yourself risks being killed without that magic. Worse, that person seems to attack their allies. Such characters are not merely dead weight, they are liabilities. A character would actually think like that. A good person would forgive a few mistakes or fist fights. But not dangerous attacks or destructive behaviour.

Now, someone might break the evil items and only the money-grabbing, amoral or evil characters would care. But ALL of them? A good character would conclude the perpetrator has some delusion, not a moral philosophy, about magic, which makes him a liability. Worse the perp may just attack and kill the wizard. A good character would try to prevent such a likely disaster. Failing an attempt to cure this dangerous delusion, the lunatic would have to be expelled. This is legitimate roleplaying for a sane character.

If this leads to an internecine conflict, then it must be done because the evidence suggests the nutter will start one anyway. If a conflict would be unwinnable, the character would simply GTFO before the party self-destructs.

Unless the magic hater is a member of the family, there is no loyalty to loose cannons who are liabilities and endanger the party. Your character should try to expel him.

[PlatinumJester]

OK.

1 - we are not, repeat not going to kill his character
2 - he doesn't actually attack party members.
3 - despite what you've heard, he is still our mae and we don't kick our mates out of the party. When he stops being our mate, then maybe but until then he stays.
4 - the only reason why he has been able to destroy these scrolls is because he is a melee combatant and can easily get to the scrolls quickly i.e. before the Wizard. However since I'm now a melee combatant I can at least save some scrolls from him at least as can our monk and hopefully our rogue.
5 - I'm now the party healer for about 3 weeks and if he pisses me off, then I won't heal him when he is on negative HP.
6 - he has never actually tried to destroy the Wizard's spellbook (well not mine anyway) and if he does my Duskblade has enough power to stop and subdue him.
7 - if he does do that, then even the people who back him up will have to admit (even if it is metagaming) that it's an arse hole thing and we will probably take and sell his stuff to pay for a new spell book.
8 - since he only hates Wizards but Sorcerers (dunno why but he probably just wanted to have a reason to kill my old character) and since Wraithy's character is half sorcerer he might not hate him that much.

We are NOT going to kill him. So don't continue to say we should or give us ways to kill him. If he continues to rip scrolls etc than we just have just have to grin and bear it, hopefully he'll stop at some point. Just give Wraithy ways to protect his spellbook.

[warmachine]

Ah! Then your mate is merely playing a somewhat deluded character who doesn't like wizards and has something against scrolls and wands. Wraithy is just being paranoid and coersion of this character should be enough. Squabbling can be good roleplaying, if people can handle it on top of what they get in real life. My suggestions are unnecessary.

Instead, my suggestion for Wraithy is to get other characters on your side. If the barbarian tries anything, he knows there'll be retaliation. Make sure your in-game friends make it clear the Barbarian will be blamed for any missing, wizard equipment or any damaged scrolls and wands.

It appears this isn't clear. This all applies in-game. Hostility or threats of expulsion out-of-game don't exist.

[Wraithy]

Here is an interesting idea that I fully admit to stealing from someone else on the boards (don't remember who, awesome idea whoever it was). Copy all your spells to a long silk scroll. Then, wrapping it carefully, wear it as sort of a diaper type contraption. No one will touch it. Ever.

If that is too much, you can get it copied onto a wider piece of cloth, and wear it as a toga instead. Either way, it never leaves your person, and people don't want to touch it, even to set fire to it.

ok, now my spellbook is covered in adamantine, I have another hidden in an outhouse in verbobonc, one is now my undergarments, and one is my clothes... I have a good feeling about this!:smallbiggrin:

[Tyger]

We are NOT going to kill him. So don't continue to say we should or give us ways to kill him. If he continues to rip scrolls etc than we just have just have to grin and bear it, hopefully he'll stop at some point. Just give Wraithy ways to protect his spellbook.

You may not want to kill him, but Wraithy just might. And if he continues with the behaviour he's exhibiting, he just might have to kill him.

And "grin and bear it"???? when he destroys potentially very powerful and certainly valuable items? Sorry, no wizard in the history of magic is going to go for that one.

And it sounds like this character has already attempted (and maybe succeeded?) in killing one other mage character... why should there be any reason to believe its different here?

In some instances, the best defense of the spell book is to remove the threat to it. And this character is obviously a threat to party dynamics. Boom. Big Boom.

[Kurald Galain]

one is now my undergarments

Ewwww!

You know what'll happen to this spellbook if you fail a Fear save, right?

[Wraithy]

Ewwww!

You know what'll happen to this spellbook if you fail a Fear save, right?

that's where the embroidery comes into play, by exchanging ink for thread I can survive all manner of situations without losing my spell book, such as being "assaulted" by nymphs, and the dreaded lax monster. it also means that I can wash them without fear of losing my spells to smudges.

[PlatinumJester]

And it sounds like this character has already attempted (and maybe succeeded?) in killing one other mage character... why should there be any reason to believe its different here?


Actually the character hasn't killed anyone from our party.
And if Wraithy wants to try and kill that character then for all I care he can, however the rest of the party probably won't back him up and may kill him (I won't but the others might depending on the situation).

[...Eh?]

2 - he doesn't actually attack party members.

4 - the only reason why he has been able to destroy these scrolls is because he is a melee combatant and can easily get to the scrolls quickly i.e. before the Wizard. However since I'm now a melee combatant I can at least save some scrolls from him at least as can our monk and hopefully our rogue.

5 - I'm now the party healer for about 3 weeks and if he pisses me off, then I won't heal him when he is on negative HP.

8 - since he only hates Wizards but Sorcerers (dunno why but he probably just wanted to have a reason to kill my old character) and since Wraithy's character is half sorcerer he might not hate him that much.

We are NOT going to kill him. So don't continue to say we should or give us ways to kill him. If he continues to rip scrolls etc than we just have just have to grin and bear it, hopefully he'll stop at some point. Just give Wraithy ways to protect his spellbook.

2) And yet, you say he killed your old character.

4) Then Wraithy should start taking ready actions near the end of combat to prevent this. There are plenty of non-lethal spells that will stop him from destroying items, such as Hold Person. (And if you follow the "You break it, you buy it" deal, you're only helping him by doing it.)

5) And that's somehow better than killing him outright?

8) See 2. If he's killed before, he probably doesn't have any problems with doing it again.

And no, not at all. There's no reason for him to be allowed to screw everyone else over, and just hoping he'kll stop is not a solution. Actually, when he sees how easy it is to get away with this stuff, he'll probably keep doing it. Personally, I would confront him without violencem but instead many non-leathal, but still intimidating, spells. For example, I beive someone mention Reverse Gravity on him, then Fly up and have a conversation with him about his behavior. Alternatively, Illusion spells are horrible, horrible things if you combine them with Divination. There has to be some kind of thought reading spell in a splatbook somewhere; use that to find his greatest fear, then talk to him alone, and once you;vce explained to him what's wrong, if he still has a problem with not being an ass, Major Image to show him the one thing he fears most, and whisper in his ear, "Do we have an agreement, good sir?" Like phantasmal killer, but instead of save vs. death, it's save vs. ****ing yourself.

[Leon]

Given that a spell book can be in any form you shouldnt have to much trouble

My druid currently is carrying what we suspect to 2 spell books (1 is a chain with clay discs threaded on it and the other is a series of stone tablets)
Sadly both the wizards expired before they could be rended incapable of casting spells and taken to trial (tho since they were both elves we still could scalp them)

[Yakk]

OK.

1 - we are not, repeat not going to kill his character
2 - he doesn't actually attack party members.
3 - despite what you've heard, he is still our mae and we don't kick our mates out of the party. When he stops being our mate, then maybe but until then he stays.

A mate who is actively working against someone is not that person's mate.

He is at best a git, and at worst an enemy.


4 - the only reason why he has been able to destroy these scrolls is because he is a melee combatant and can easily get to the scrolls quickly i.e. before the Wizard. However since I'm now a melee combatant I can at least save some scrolls from him at least as can our monk and hopefully our rogue.

... and because, after he destroyed treasure belonging to the party, the party did not kick the character out and/or punish him for doing so.

"I reached it first means I can do what I want with it" does not a friend make.


5 - I'm now the party healer for about 3 weeks and if he pisses me off, then I won't heal him when he is on negative HP.
6 - he has never actually tried to destroy the Wizard's spellbook (well not mine anyway) and if he does my Duskblade has enough power to stop and subdue him.
7 - if he does do that, then even the people who back him up will have to admit (even if it is metagaming) that it's an arse hole thing and we will probably take and sell his stuff to pay for a new spell book.
8 - since he only hates Wizards but Sorcerers (dunno why but he probably just wanted to have a reason to kill my old character) and since Wraithy's character is half sorcerer he might not hate him that much.

We are NOT going to kill him. So don't continue to say we should or give us ways to kill him. If he continues to rip scrolls etc than we just have just have to grin and bear it, hopefully he'll stop at some point. Just give Wraithy ways to protect his spellbook.

As mentioned, you aren't going to kill him.

So what is actually going on...

Wraithy is under threat by a Barbarian wizard-hater who is destroying the share of the treasure Wraithy wants. They party that Wraithy is traveling with is likely to back up the Barbarian wizard-hater in the event that Wraithy deals with the Barbarian.

So Wraithy has most of an entire party to deal with...

So, how can Wraithy deal with the Barbarian in a way that the party won't notice? Or at least, Wraithy will want to be able to plausibly deny that it was on purpose...

You could also try tricking the dumb barbarian somehow in a humourous way. This would require help on the part of the other player to make it work.

---

Backing up from the perspective of Wraithy, there are signs that your group is somewhat disfunctional. Typically you want to form a group that has a reason to be working with each other, and not one in which one character has as his motivation "sabotage the other characters".

[mikeejimbo]

Want to keep all your stuff safe?
Answer: Get a Luggage

AND it'll wash and fold your clothes. This is the most brilliant option.

[Solo]

As mentioned, you aren't going to kill him.

So what is actually going on...

Wraithy is under threat by a Barbarian wizard-hater who is destroying the share of the treasure Wraithy wants. They party that Wraithy is traveling with is likely to back up the Barbarian wizard-hater in the event that Wraithy deals with the Barbarian.

So Wraithy has most of an entire party to deal with...

So, how can Wraithy deal with the Barbarian in a way that the party won't notice? Or at least, Wraithy will want to be able to plausibly deny that it was on purpose...

You could also try tricking the dumb barbarian somehow in a humourous way. This would require help on the part of the other player to make it work.

---

Backing up from the perspective of Wraithy, there are signs that your group is somewhat disfunctional. Typically you want to form a group that has a reason to be working with each other, and not one in which one character has as his motivation "sabotage the other characters".

He's a wizard. he could possibly take on the entire party if he had to....under the right circumstances

[Behold_the_Void]

He's a wizard. he could possibly take on the entire party if he had to....under the right circumstances

Correction, he's a Wizard 3/Sorcerer 2 going Ultimate Magus. That's not going to be happening for QUITE awhile.

[tainsouvra]

he probably just wanted to have a reason to kill my old character Doesn't this strike you as not only metagaming, but intentionally causing strife within your own party?

Do as you like, but as it's a public discussion, don't be surprised to hear that most gaming groups would find that situation exceptionally aversive. I'd send the player home for a few sessions if he continued, but I tend to play with groups where all the players are friends rather than looking for ways to sabotage each other OoC (and yes, this is definitely an OoC issue).

[Silentmaster101]

so why doesnt he just go find the haughtiest elf around, kill him and take his telkiira and then overpower it with a charisma check. bingo then a charisma, int, and wis enhancing spellbook that cannot be taken or destroyed without your say so, with a bunce of abilities to boot. or you could buy one...


Edit: a regular Kiira gem costs 7500 to buy less to make and holds 30 spells of any level, cant be destroyed without say so and gives you +2 on all knowledge skills.

[Fizban]

He's a wizard. he could possibly take on the entire party if he had to....under the right circumstances
He's a wiz3/sor2, he's at the weakest point in both classes, that's some pretty hefty circumstances.

One thing to note is that they magic-haters can't rationalize using disintigrate to destroy stuff, so you just have to jack up the hardness. This means using adamantine and one of the many different versions of magical treatment, which has been known to provide anywhere from +5 to flat doubling the base.

If you can afford to spend a level on geometer (which will mean less levels of ultimate magus until waaay later), then take one. It makes scribing weird spellbooks much easier. Tattoo the most important spells that you can't cast as a sorcerer, then scribe them on random objects. I would advise against scribing them on the walls of a building, since buildings that aren't heavily magicked can burn down, and you don't have access to that kind of magic yet.

Once again, since they can't use disintigrate, that forcechest spell is really good.

But, your biggest weakness is the fact that you're sitting reading for an hour every morning with the book in front of you. Normally I don't condone this, but this is best solved with rope trick. You don't have enough caster levels to use it to best effect, but you could sleep for 8 hours, cast it, sleep for another hour, and then prepare spells minus the one 2nd level slot.

[Stareyes]

Personally, I would support the 'you break it, you buy it' theory. If the Barbarian was using his class abilities to grab the best weapons/armor first and refusing to give it up, (or stealing the magic stuff, hiding it, then going into town to sell it to buy more Barbarian-usable equipment) then you'd make him pay for it from his share of the treasure, right? If I were DM, I'd also be having a talk about the degree of inter-party conflict that was considered appropriate, and about creating characters that can work together without killing one another.

I'm also wondering how a level 5 character can survive without magic. I played a magic-hating character in a d20 Modern game*, and he eventually started to compromise his feelings on the matter because he kept getting into situations where magic saved his life (He got shot at. A lot. There also was the incident with the mummy.). Which was fun character development for me.

* Mine was too socially aware/honorable to do anything like sundering magic stuff/the mage's spellbook. Plus, he was fully aware that the rest of the party could kick the stuffing out of him.

[Twilight Jack]

Well, it sounds as though you've figured out how to defend your spellbook. Not it's time to figure out how to ensure that the illiterate caveman stops snapping wands and ripping up scrolls before you can get to them. My suggestion?

Mage Hand. Keep one prepared and ready an action for it as combat draws to a close. That should ensure at least one good bit of loot actually makes it into your possession from each combat.

[RandomNPC]

sit across from him at the table. every time a wand snaps give him a nice good kick. start at the shin about half down from the knee. by the time he snaps the fifth wand his "dice" will be so scared he'll find a way to craft the wands to make it up to you.

[firepup]

Has your character tried to have a polite conversation with the illiterate thug?

[SMDVogrin]

4 - the only reason why he has been able to destroy these scrolls is because he is a melee combatant and can easily get to the scrolls quickly i.e. before the Wizard. However since I'm now a melee combatant I can at least save some scrolls from him at least as can our monk and hopefully our rogue.

Again, anything he's destroying needs to be coming out of his share of the party treasure. Seriously.

[Porthos]

Not to join the chorus, but yeah, "You Break it, You bought it."

Insist on this. Hold up the game session if you must. Argue about for hours even.

Your friend is taking advantage of the fact that his character is bigger and stronger than yours. Well, don't stand for it. Put your proverbial foot down and state that you are entilted to those scrolls, and just because he reaches them first it does not under ANY circumstances mean he has the right to break them.

Period.

If you have to talk to him Out Of Character and let him know how much he is pissing you off do it. A real "mate" would understand that, after a certain point, enough is enough.

If you must, point out that you can't save the Barbarian's Butt without magic. Point out that he and he alone is causing all of the inter-party strife. Point out that he can hate magic all he wants. It's a fine character concept. But he MUST remember that it can not, EVER, spill over into Real Life.

And just on the off chance that your friend is reading this board, here's a little piece of advice from Rich Burlew:

http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html

Decide to React Differently: Have you ever had a party break down into fighting over the actions of one of their members? Has a character ever threatened repeatedly to leave the party? Often, intraparty fighting boils down to one player declaring, "That's how my character would react." Heck, often you'll be the one saying it; it's a common reaction when alignments or codes of ethics clash.

However, it also creates a logjam where neither side wants to back down. The key to resolving this problem is to decide to react differently. You are not your character, and your character is not a separate entity with reactions that you cannot control. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a player state that their character's actions are not under their control. Every decision your character makes is your decision first. It is possible and even preferable for you to craft a personality that is consistent but also accommodating of the characters the other players wish to play.

When you think about a situation, ask yourself, "Is this the only way my character can react to this?" Chances are, the answer is, "No." Try to refine your character so that you can deal with situations that conflict with your alignment/ethos without resorting to ultimatums, threats, etc. This will often mean thinking in terms of compromise and concession to your fellow players, or at the very least an agreement to disagree.

Here's another example: In a campaign I DM'd, the party's bard lifted a magical sword behind the back of the party's Lawful Good monk. The monk had basically decided that the bodies of several fallen knights would be buried without looting, and rather than argue, the bard just grabbed the sword. The bad news was, the sword was cursed; it was the blade that had belonged to a ghost that roamed the castle, and whenever the bard drew it, the ghost materialized and attacked him (and only him). Eventually, the bard 'fessed up that he had stolen the sword. The monk (and the monk's player) became furious, and declared that he could no longer travel with the bard. Either the bard had to leave, or he would. It became a huge argument between characters and players, and it was entirely unnecessary. The monk did not have to react with an ultimatum; the monk did not even have to be angry, no matter what his alignment was. The bard had already suffered the misfortune of having his Charisma drained by the ghost repeatedly; the monk could have chosen (for example) to lecture the bard on how his theft had brought him nothing but misery. He chose to create player conflict when it was just as easy to not.

Personally, I blame the paladin for this. The original paladin class created the precedent for one player thinking he has the right to dictate the morality of other players. That drives me nuts. Ever since, players who select a Lawful Good character automatically assume it is up to them to police the rest of the party, and too often, the rest of the party lets them. As far as I'm concerned, no player has the right to tell another player how to act. Lawful Good is not the "right" way to be, and it is unacceptable to push your character's ideals on other players whether they want them or not.

Another useful application of this concept involves accepting story hooks your DM gives to you. Try to never just say, "My character isn't interested in that adventure." A lot of people mistake this for good roleplaying, because you are asserting your character's personality. Wrong. Good roleplaying should never bring the game to a screeching halt. One of your jobs as a player is to come up with a reason why your character would be interested in a plot. After all, your personality is entirely in your hands, not the DM's. Come up with a reason why the adventure (or the reward) might appeal to you, no matter how esoteric or roundabout the reasoning.

If the paladin is to blame for the last problem, this one belongs to the druid. Druids have such a specific set of principles that players often mistake them for being a free pass to demand that each adventure revolve around their goals. Raiding a dungeon for gold doesn't appeal to the druid mindset, so what are you to do if you play one and are presented with that goal? You improvise. Maybe the gold will enable you to purchase magic items that will let you protect the wilderness. Maybe the ruins contain unnatural monsters that need to be killed regardless of the treasure. Maybe, just maybe, the other PCs are your friends and you are willing to help them just because. Too often that last part is forgotten; I don't think anyone reading this has never spent the night doing something they'd rather not because a friend asked.

So if you're really paying attention, you may be thinking, "Hey, don't those two points contradict one another? First he says to separate what your character thinks from what you think, but then he says your character doesn't have its own reactions." Well, no. Separate your character's thoughts from your own thoughts, but don't forget who is in control of both personalities. The division between your personality and that of your character only goes so far as it helps the game; once it begins becoming a disruption, a player has a responsibility to alter his or her character's decisions in the interest of the group. In the end, your relationships with the people you are sitting in someone's living room with are more important than your character's internal consistency.

If your friend isn't reading this board, print out that quote and have him read it verbatiam. Make sure he understands what kind of person he is being.

And, if all of this doesn't work, just start claiming items he would like to have. "So you want this +3 Great Axe of Cleaving? Well, I think it brings out the red in my robes nicely, so I'm claiming it."

But do not under any circumstances just roll over and accept it. You're not having fun. And isn't that what the game is all about?

<Rant Over>

[Wraithy]

The barbarian player has read this thread (well the first few pages), so knowing him, he'll stop ripping up scrolls just to prove this thread wrong, or he'll be more open to debate over violence, I'm hoping the latter for roleplay potential.
and if that approach fails: I'll get him to chase me off a collapsing cliff (featherfall for me, death for him)

[Wraith]

Everyone seems to have gone for the extreme measures to protect your spell book, Wraithy - I understand implicitly *why* you would want to stop someone breaking your stuff, and to try to stop them breaking stuff that should be yours, but I have to say that there is one very simple measure you could take that would be relatively cheap, easy, and guarantee you a safe way of accumulating power and other prestigious things.

Step 1: Take your 2000gc.

Step 2: Join the nearest Wizard's College/Mage Guild/become an apprentice to the nearest Mage in the biggest Tower you can find. Use your 2000gc to assure membership, ingratiate yourself with the other Mages or otherwise get yourself as legitimate a place in the organisation as you can.

Congratulations - you now have a small army of Mages, Sorcerers and other Magically inclined Classes of all shapes, sizes, colours and flavours on your side.

Someone threatens to destroy your spell book because he hates Magic? Perhaps your Master, or even your dozens of other classmates, would like to know that they and their equipment is being hunted down by this savage lunatic.

So long as your character isn't currently taking a long tour through Athkatla, the only downside I see with this plan is that you might have to occasionally sit lectures or go on sub-quests on behalf of your teacher - but then again, who doesn't like sub-quest experience and loot knowing full well that if your barbarian nemesis makes a mess of everything, it's not just you that he'll have to answer to...? :smallamused:

[Wraithy]

my character really can't get help from any mages guilds, religious orders, or most powerful prescences in the arcane world. His theory of the nonexistance of magic has made him a pariah in the magical community. I won't bore/annoy you with the specifics of it:

"so called 'magic' is the manipulation of imperceptile foundation by beings of enhanced foundational sensetivity, who thusly convert said foundation into perceptible form, either physical, illusionary, or otherwise" (foundation is his word for the non-substance which constitutes everything)

all of which makes as much sense as reversing the polarity of the neutron flow :smallbiggrin:

[CASTLEMIKE]

Charm person or (Color spray every time he makes a beeline for the treasure) the idiot could be destroying divine scrolls of healing or raise dead since they don't come with tags saying wizard scrolls so all the party members should be concerned.

It isn't a long term solution but if it was a sorcerer known spell you could cast Charm Person a few times a day after each combat since a level 5 Barbarian only has a +1 Will. Most Barbarians lowball wisdom ability score wise it should be his 4th to 6th worst ability score.

Everytime you defeat him you should gain experience for defeating him individually since he is a BBEG monster encounter if nothing else that should get your mates on your side helping you.

[Kaerou]

I dont even know why you would even want to play the game with this person. He's evidently enough of a problem that you came to a message board and sought after help just to continue playing and enjoying the game.

I hate disruptive players. Disruptive is what the other player is being.

Working against other people playing the game makes the game not-fun for the other people playing it. I could tell stories.. but I wont. All I can say is that, it will only get worse as he tests the width of what he can do to mess over the other players.

Yes, I said players. He's not messing with anyones characters. He's working against the other players. He made a decision to stand against and disrupt the fun of someone because of the class they're playing. He made a decision that he 'dislikes that class' and he'll make it hell for you unless youswitch characters to something that 'sits right' with him him.. i.e.. fighters. Ive seen it happen multiple times. Its almost always working against people playing spellcasters.. I have no idea why.

[Koji]

Reroll, make a divine metamagic cleric, and make them beg for your wizard to come back.

[Mithhuan]

Oh, my stars and garters! An actual Barbarian with a fear of magic. Well, this is intriguing. I think a simple ruse would be your best bet. While the character is sleeping use the Seeming spell to change his appearance and/or Touch of Fatigue to make him weak. Make him a different color like say purple. Then when he realizes something is wrong calmly explain that it is a magical disease caused by the exposure to the magic of the items that he has destroyed. Tell him you have seen this before but not this bad. Use you're bluff skill if you have any to make the character believe it. Then tell him if he stays away from magical exposure he should get better. If not he may die.

[Alleine]

Shouldn't the rogue be unhappy about this wand breaking also? As far as I know rogues love their UMD skill, and without any MD's to use, well, thats a waste of skill points which I know I wouldn't be too happy about.

[Wraithy]

Shouldn't the rogue be unhappy about this wand breaking also? As far as I know rogues love their UMD skill, and without any MD's to use, well, thats a waste of skill points which I know I wouldn't be too happy about.

you would be correct, but the "rogue" is just a halfling thug fighter with the sneak attack variant

[mostlyharmful]

May i recomend shatter, You don't trust magic? oh, ok. I don't trust oiled up muscle bound posers with no emotion control. so I'll shatter every interesting piece of magical equipment you find.... what? it's completely in character..... three magic greataxes down the line surely he will wise up and realise that tit means tat and your character is MUCH smarter than his.

[PlatinumJester]

The rest of the party has magical equipment to y'know. Trust me destroying their/our equipment won't make the rest of them too happy, me included.

[Alleine]

Just to be clear, what exactly is it that the barbarian doesn't like? Just wizards, or wizards and scroll/wands? Did he even give a good, solid background reason?

[mostlyharmful]

Shatter is only for those who only dislike those who can use sertain magic items, if he doesn't like "MAGIC" then he has an issue with you and alllllll your kewl gear. If he doesn't like only those who use magic in a certain way (arcane) then ,1 he's using well beyound barbarian knowledge of magic and ,2 anything that cold be used by magicians/ was made by magicians/ involves magicains in anyway what-so-ever gets splatted by a big axe. How does your druid react to some gung-ho axeman smashing all the cool devine stuff as well, how does the rogue react to Mr Smash ruining all the interesting hats & Macguffins?
Without Knowledge and spells the barbarian is reduced to repeatedly bludgeoning anything that remotely resembles something arcane.... uh, what? what group would put up with someone who wanders around hitting anything that looks valuable?

[Ruerl]

Oh, my stars and garters! An actual Barbarian with a fear of magic. Well, this is intriguing. I think a simple ruse would be your best bet. While the character is sleeping use the Seeming spell to change his appearance and/or Touch of Fatigue to make him weak. Make him a different color like say purple. Then when he realizes something is wrong calmly explain that it is a magical disease caused by the exposure to the magic of the items that he has destroyed. Tell him you have seen this before but not this bad. Use you're bluff skill if you have any to make the character believe it. Then tell him if he stays away from magical exposure he should get better. If not he may die.

*wipes a tear away*

Beautifull suggestion.

[CorvinMarkellus]

The rest of the party has magical equipment to y'know. Trust me destroying their/our equipment won't make the rest of them too happy, me included.

So how did you get magical equipment in the first place? Didn't the barbarian flip out and want to attack you for handling magic items? And surely "rest of the party" doesn't include said magic-hating barbarian, right?

[Mithhuan]

I've done some thinking on my post above and I believe you can use prestidigitation to change his skin color, it will take a few rounds but it will work, along with touch of fatigue to weaken him, both are 0 level cantrips, which you should be able to cast easily. With some clever role playing you can really mess with this barbarians mind. :smallbiggrin:

[Aurion]

Well, my suggestion is simply to use your high charisma to convince him that he really really doesn't want to destroy your spellbook or those items anymore. If he's a good roleplayer then by all means it should work. Not to mention if he's a meleer/barbarian he doubtfully has any ranks in sense motive and probably a low int score, making it fairly easy to persuade him that other things would be a better use of his time. If this fails, you can probably find other ways to screw with him that don't result in any further conflict, even with your low level spells. For instance, have either you or a cleric cast a spell on him that makes his alignment show up as chaotic evil when you come up to a group of paladins...

[Sharoth]

The rest of the party has magical equipment to y'know. Trust me destroying their/our equipment won't make the rest of them too happy, me included.

So how do you think that makes Wraithy feel? Also, your group is suppost to be a team, right? ~insert sarcasm~ It sure does not sound like you all are being a team. Are you going to stand up for Wraithy, PlatinumJester? Or are you going to stand by while this "Barbarian" ruins the group and Wraithy's fun? Also, when the Barbarian destroys those scrolls and wants, the WHOLE group suffers! Period! End of story. I sure hope your DM starts to throw things at you all that could have been handled a lot easier with the destroyed equipment.

Wraithy, my advice is to either talk to you DM and have him step in or find another group. PlatinumJester has alread proven that he is no "Mate" for not standing by your character. Good luck with this problem.

P.S. - First time poster here.

[Inyssius Tor]

Yeah, you should castrate those sexist bastards and nail their genitals to the local comic book shop wall!

Oh wait, wrong thread...

[Yakk]

It looks to me like the Barbarian player doesn't like the Wraithy player. The Barbarian player invented the exuse "I don't like Wizards" in order to kill Wraithy's old character. Since then, most of the group was replaced, and the Barbarian player is still playing the same character.

Now Wraithy has started playing again with a new character, this time a sorcerer/wizard, and he wants to avoid the git of a Barbarian player from ruining his fun again.

This is an out-of-character problem, not an in-character problem. You need to fix it out of character, not by making your spellbook hard to destroy.

[PlatinumJester]

So how do you think that makes Wraithy feel? Also, your group is suppost to be a team, right? ~insert sarcasm~ It sure does not sound like you all are being a team. Are you going to stand up for Wraithy, PlatinumJester? Or are you going to stand by while this "Barbarian" ruins the group and Wraithy's fun? Also, when the Barbarian destroys those scrolls and wants, the WHOLE group suffers! Period! End of story. I sure hope your DM starts to throw things at you all that could have been handled a lot easier with the destroyed equipment.

Wraithy, my advice is to either talk to you DM and have him step in or find another group. PlatinumJester has alread proven that he is no "Mate" for not standing by your character. Good luck with this problem.

P.S. - First time poster here.


I'll stand by him as long as he doesn't destroy MY stuff or an allies stuff without good reason. If he destroys the Barbarians stuff without cause then he bought it on himself otherwise I'm his ally.

[Wraithy]

now there has been alot of confusion on this thread as to what goes where etc. so I will try to set things streight (just like my spelling :smallbiggrin: )
last session my kobold scout was killed by the party dwarven totemist (with the improved sunder feat) for killing a friendly NPC gnome on impulse. this was unrelated to the fact that platinum jesters character (a wizard) was killed by the same dwarven totemist earlier in the session, he was killed because he tried to kill the party barbarian for ripping up scrolls that were part of the loot, the dwarven totemist was sticking up for the barbarian because platinum jester really did play a shifty character (used preserved body parts as extra spell components).
next session our new characters will join the group if all goes to plan, I am playing a human sorceror2/wizard3 (aiming for the ultimate magus PrC) and he is playing a raptoran duskblade who uses a fullblade (and can barely fly as a result, no offence platinum). the party barbarian has explained that he does not hate magic, he only hates magic from books. I've been given the amount of starting gold I'm allowed and am working with the DM on where I'll enter, but I still don't want my spellbook gone if the worst comes to the worst.
so far I have two adamantine encased waterproof spellbooks, one is embroiderd onto my undergarments, one is hidden in my house is a nearby town, and eventually I will embroider a spare spellbook onto my clothes.

question: what size is one page of a spellbook? does it need to be a specific size? so far I imagine one page as being A4 sized with roughly size 12 font.

[PlatinumJester]

Yeah :smallyuk:

[Wraithy]

Yeah, you should castrate those sexist bastards and nail their genitals to the local comic book shop wall!

Oh wait, wrong thread...

:smile:


P.S: if anyone (I know at least one person) was interested in the magical theory earlier, I've put it on the forums. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51415

[hippie_dwarf]

Yeah :smallyuk:

Yeah :smallyuk:

[Alleine]

Well, its good he only doesn't like written stuff, because wands can be pretty useful, and it makes sense for a barbarian since they can't usually read :smallsmile:

Now that it sounds like you've got your spellbook defense all planned out, I suggest attempting to bluff the barbarian into believing that you should have the scrolls which, of course, you will destroy for him. Make up the reason why you specifically should be the one to do this, and you could do something along the lines of keeping the scrolls to study and destroy once you've fully "comprehended the evil magic and how best to destroy it" This sounds like it could be some fun to RP if you pull the right strings.

[hippie_dwarf]

Well, its good he only doesn't like written stuff, because wands can be pretty useful, and it makes sense for a barbarian since they can't usually read :smallsmile:

Now that it sounds like you've got your spellbook defense all planned out, I suggest attempting to bluff the barbarian into believing that you should have the scrolls which, of course, you will destroy for him. Make up the reason why you specifically should be the one to do this, and you could do something along the lines of keeping the scrolls to study and destroy once you've fully "comprehended the evil magic and how best to destroy it" This sounds like it could be some fun to RP if you pull the right strings.


As long as his charcter can prove that not all wizards are sadistic plonkers and that it isn't the magic thats evil only some of the people who weild it which could make for some great roleplaying and interesting character developement.

As for wands my character hasn't had any encouters with them so they were safe from the outset, it just scrolls he hates presumably because he saw someone turned into a zombie with one (not the best first impression).

[Leatherhead]

You should talk to your DM about having all magic items, including scrolls and wands, explode when sundered.

[MeatGrindah]

As for wands my character hasn't had any encouters with them so they were safe from the outset, it just scrolls he hates presumably because he saw someone turned into a zombie with one (not the best first impression).

GAH! It twists a knife in my wounds when someone says that their character is acting based on his "first impression". Seriously, around here that thing has caused our necrowizard going "slightly mad" and killing everyone else just because my Shugenja used his Fire Wings to draw attention.

Just because the first time you saw scrolls used was for making zombies is not a good excuse for destroying all you find. Unless your character is a complete idiot you could be taught that not all scrolls make zombies: I suppose once you get to a big city and see a shop filled with scrolls you will charge in with your rage and destroy the entire building just because "I DONT LIKE SCROLLS HURRHURRRR"

[Porthos]

As long as his charcter can prove that not all wizards are sadistic plonkers and that it isn't the magic thats evil only some of the people who weild it which could make for some great roleplaying and interesting character developement.

I take it, by your statement here, that you did not read the little essay by Rich Burlew that I posted earlier? :smallsmile:

Here it is again, just in case you missed it. I would really read it and think about it for a while if I were you (especially the second half of the essay)...

http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html

You are in control of your characters actions. Period. The character is the one on the marionettes strings, not vice versa. It's up to you and not your mate to figure out how to welcome him into the party. Oh sure, he should try to work his way in to the game. If your game has a set style, then he should definietly work on how to join it with out being disruptive. Also, your character doesn't have to trust/like/bond/whatever right away with his character. But to set out and intentionally screw over his character by destroying things that he would be able to use to help everyone? Sorry, but that is flat out Wrong.

Again, meet him half-way. Is it metagaming? Absoultely. But it is good metagaming. After all you are all there to have fun, right? Well if you know ahead of time that this won't be fun for him, perhaps, just perhaps you shouldn't do it.

Just Saying. :smallsmile: