Protecting from Disrupting Weapons (3.5)

[flappeercraft]

So on the current campaign I'm running undead are going to be a huge part of it but since the players have a cleric they have access to both turning and Disrupting weapon spell. What I'm worried about is the disrupting weapon spell as its easy to stop turning but the question is how. This is for the BBEG's bodyguards so no need for doing this on mass, the BBEG has access to both 9th level spells for the Wizard and Cleric spell lists. Any ideas? Temporary solutions are ok

[J-H]

If it's a spell, then it can be Dispelled. Hit them with an AOE dispel or two.

Disruption carries a "Will negates" property. Undead have a "good" will save for their HD (2+.5 per level). Boost their will save via higher wisdom score, items, temporary buffs (mass owl's wisdom gives +4 wis, and thus +2 to the save), and the like.

[DrMotives]

Disruption requires a successful hit in addition to a will save. If the bodyguards have concealment effects (blur, fog cloud if they also have blindsense) that's a 20% miss chance right there. Blur might also make corporeal undead get mistaken for incorporeal, frustrating your players ability to accurately assess what they're fighting.

[Hogsy]

Casting Owl's Wisdom, Mass as suggested nets a +2 to will saves, Superior Resistance lasts for 24 hours, so extending it would mean he could cast it the day before and free all those level 6 slots for when the combat starts. Those two alone net your undead a +8 bonus on their will saves. Give 'em a 16 wisdom and that's +18 at CR 10 if I'm not mistaken? You can have one of the bodyguards be a Marshal(with a Cha 14 and a Fox's Cunning cast on it) and that's an extra +4 due to the Force of Will minor aura. Not only that, but the Marshal can also give the other undeads a higher to-hit chance, which is always nice. You could have your BBEG, his Undead Commander(Marshal) and then some Bodyguards. That along with a few items that grant turn resistance should give your undead minions a fighting chance against the Cleric, his turning and those pesky disrupting weapons.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Undead have good will saves and gobs of HD. I wouldn't worry about it over much.

[Lilapop]

You can have one of the bodyguards be a Marshal(with a Cha 14 and a Fox's Cunning cast on it) and that's an extra +4 due to the Force of Will minor aura. Not only that, but the Marshal can also give the other undeads a higher to-hit chance, which is always nice.
Isn't marshal stuff mind affecting, so it doesn't work on undead?

Huh. Just checked the book, apparently its not mind affecting, so you're good to go.

[Inevitability]

Note that Disrupting Weapon only applies to undead with less HD than the caster's CL. Unless the player is planning on boosting it most BBEG's will be outside the danger zone.

Really, the only creatures at risk are those strong enough to not go down in one hit normally but weak enough to have little HD. Expending a 5th-level slot to kill one or two of those (at most) a little faster seems reasonable.

[J-H]

Don't totally nerf it. Let your players have some fun and some success as a result of proper preparation!

[flappeercraft]

Don't totally nerf it. Let your players have some fun and some success as a result of proper preparation!

Yeah, problem is that someone who is extremely paranoid like the BBEG that they are facing WILL make sure to be as protected as possible which means protecting his protectors. Also, the point of this campaign is that it will be as hard as I can make it for them while still beatable and still enjoyable, it was actually the idea of the players to do this as hard as possible for them while still fair to some degree.

Also, I was considering giving one of the guards who is the only undead guard the Ranged disarm feat. Is it any good?

[Inevitability]

Yeah, problem is that someone who is extremely paranoid like the BBEG that they are facing WILL make sure to be as protected as possible which means protecting his protectors. Also, the point of this campaign is that it will be as hard as I can make it for them while still beatable and still enjoyable, it was actually the idea of the players to do this as hard as possible for them while still fair to some degree.

Also, I was considering giving one of the guards who is the only undead guard the Ranged disarm feat. Is it any good?

How many HD will your BBEG have? Because as I said before, if his HD is anywhere in BBEG territory he won't need further protection. Having the BBEG be a few levels above the party is hardly unfair, is it?


Ranged Disarm doesn't exactly seem bad, though there's a pretty obvious problem. Using the feat with bows or crossbows means you get MAD (need strength for disarming, dexterity for shooting), while using it with a thrown weapon is bad for your disarm ability (as no thrown weapons are two-handed).

However, if the guard has the HD/fighter levels to burn some feats, a build with Throw Anything, Brutal Throw and Ranged Disarm throwing a heavy flail around would be strength-centric and pretty good at disarming people from a distance. I still don't get why one couldn't just move thirty feet and disarm normally, though.

[zergling.exe]

How many HD will your BBEG have? Because as I said before, if his HD is anywhere in BBEG territory he won't need further protection. Having the BBEG be a few levels above the party is hardly unfair, is it?


Ranged Disarm doesn't exactly seem bad, though there's a pretty obvious problem. Using the feat with bows or crossbows means you get MAD (need strength for disarming, dexterity for shooting), while using it with a thrown weapon is bad for your disarm ability (as no thrown weapons are two-handed).

However, if the guard has the HD/fighter levels to burn some feats, a build with Throw Anything, Brutal Throw and Ranged Disarm throwing a heavy flail around would be strength-centric and pretty good at disarming people from a distance. I still don't get why one couldn't just move thirty feet and disarm normally, though.

Spears are two handed and can be thrown, and aren't there some magic gloves that gives the throwing property to any weapon you wield?

edit: Gauntlets of Throwing in the MIC allow you to treat all weapons one weapon as thrown throwing and returning for 1 round 3 times a day. Should be sufficient if you are using it to throw a two-handed weapon to disarm.

[flappeercraft]

How many HD will your BBEG have? Because as I said before, if his HD is anywhere in BBEG territory he won't need further protection. Having the BBEG be a few levels above the party is hardly unfair, is it?


Ranged Disarm doesn't exactly seem bad, though there's a pretty obvious problem. Using the feat with bows or crossbows means you get MAD (need strength for disarming, dexterity for shooting), while using it with a thrown weapon is bad for your disarm ability (as no thrown weapons are two-handed).

However, if the guard has the HD/fighter levels to burn some feats, a build with Throw Anything, Brutal Throw and Ranged Disarm throwing a heavy flail around would be strength-centric and pretty good at disarming people from a distance. I still don't get why one couldn't just move thirty feet and disarm normally, though.

I think I might've explained it wrong. Its not the BBEG who is the undead, its 3 out of his 4 bodyguards who are. They are Vampires so no Undead good saving throws unfortunately. Also they are fighters with some template stacking (2 are Half orc Blue Half dragon Fleshvigor Spellstiched Vampire Fighter 16. The other undead is a Human Half Minotaur Half Fiend Fleshvigor Vampire Fighter 16) In case you are wondering, they qualify for Vampire due to Human heritage feat making them Humanoid before becoming Vampires. By the time they fight the BBEG and have a chance of being able to beat him bodyguards or not they are going to be around 20th level which is what worries me as the undead guards are 16th level which has the Disrupting Weapon problem in and usually turning but I've got that covered already.

As for disarming on range causing MAD, it doesn't according to the SRD its an "Opposed attack roll" not an opposed strength check, you are thinking trip with that. Due to that, only dependency is actually on Dexterity, not Dexterity AND Strength. Also the reason why I want Ranged disarm instead of melee disarming is because the melee guards are the undead who I definitely don't want to get close to anyone with the Disrupting weapons, instead I will give the Crossbow guy who is not undead the Ranged disarm feat and when he full attacks he can shoot 6 arrows (4 BAB +1 Haste +1 Rapid shot) and he has Splitting property making it effectively 12, so with that he could shoot them as a full attack and do 2 opposed attack rolls per bolt pre Splitting shot and do regular attack. Just seems more practical as he could do a Full-attack and disarm pretty much everyone within 30ft he needs to. If more is needed he has the Belt of battle and he can do that again. So that is why ranged disarm instead of melee disarm, just seems more effective at mass disarming in the case its needed and less exposure to hits.

[Fizban]

If it's a spell, then it can be Dispelled. Hit them with an AOE dispel or two.
No dice, attended items aren't hit by AoE dispels so you at least have to target it directly. One of the perks of Artificer infusions, much harder to dispel en masse.