Unbinding Feats from ASIs

[Mongobear]

Was thinking of a house-rule, and I wanted to get opinions on it before I set it in motion.

I want to use Feats without them being tied down/limited by ASIs, so I was thinking of keeping the ASIs as they are, and also allowing people to select a Feat at certain levels as they level. Initially, I am thinking the same level ranges as when Cantrips upgrade, so that in the full level range, you would have 4 Feats and all of your ASIs available, instead of having to decide whether a 20 in your second main stat is worth it over something like Mobile or Alert.

Ideas or suggestions for a system that modifies this? Or maybe an improved level range for when you would gain a Feat?

[Theodoxus]

Do you typically use Point Buy or roll? With rolling, there could definitely be cases where you end up spending your ASIs on tertiary or even quaternary attributes because you've maxed out your first two stats. With PB, that won't happen, so less of a concern.

As for when to get feats, your idea is pretty sound. I think I'd include 1 at 1st level however. Waiting 5 levels for your first feat might not seem long, but given the XP chart, the first 3 levels are "training" levels and fly by. Level 3 -> 4 is also fairly quick, allowing the player to learn about their Archetype and new abilities that unlocked, but only for a session or so. From 4->5 however, is longer. Players tend to want their build to be online by then. Otherwise they're feeling unpowered.

One thing you might consider is uncoupling either ASI and/or Feats from class level and put them on the character level instead. Unless you prefer people didn't multiclass... splitting ASI and Feats onto their own class tracks would negate a lot of MC.

[jaappleton]

I had this idea of having magic items that grant feats. You could have them require attunement to prevent too much stacking if things got out of hand.

[Mongobear]

Do you typically use Point Buy or roll? With rolling, there could definitely be cases where you end up spending your ASIs on tertiary or even quaternary attributes because you've maxed out your first two stats. With PB, that won't happen, so less of a concern.


The game I am running right now is using point buy, but with a slightly increased budget as compared to Standard/AL games. We are doing 32 as opposed to 27, so your 3 mainstats get to 15 and you can either have a 13 in an important save, or two 10s and a 9 to almost make a no negatives dude in dump stats.



As for when to get feats, your idea is pretty sound. I think I'd include 1 at 1st level however. Waiting 5 levels for your first feat might not seem long, but given the XP chart, the first 3 levels are "training" levels and fly by. Level 3 -> 4 is also fairly quick, allowing the player to learn about their Archetype and new abilities that unlocked, but only for a session or so. From 4->5 however, is longer. Players tend to want their build to be online by then. Otherwise they're feeling unpowered.


I debated adding it at 1st level, but with Variant Human existing, that seems a bit much, unless I just didnt allow them at all, and make people take the vanilla +1 to everything Human.

If I gave a Feat at 1st character level, I would probably give the rest at character levels 6, 11, and 16 respectively.



One thing you might consider is uncoupling either ASI and/or Feats from class level and put them on the character level instead. Unless you prefer people didn't multiclass... splitting ASI and Feats onto their own class tracks would negate a lot of MC.


I would allow Feats to be based on character level, not class level, like Cantrip damage.

The only issue I see possibly is Fighters who get a bunch more ASIs than standard classes. How would you handle them? I am debating just leaving them alone and making it so that their class feature bonus ASI (the ones not at 4/8/12/16/19) can be used for an ASI OR a Feat, but the standard ones that are uniform across all classes have to be used as ASIs. Thoughts?

[Theodoxus]

The only issue I see possibly is Fighters who get a bunch more ASIs than standard classes. How would you handle them? I am debating just leaving them alone and making it so that their class feature bonus ASI (the ones not at 4/8/12/16/19) can be used for an ASI OR a Feat, but the standard ones that are uniform across all classes have to be used as ASIs. Thoughts?

I like the idea of them being flexible. Rogues get a bonus ASI at 10 as well. Could shore up a flagging attribute or grab that desired feat a few levels earlier.

[Sir cryosin]

Ok so I told player to roll 4d6 drop the lowest reroll any 1's. Now this gives then higher stats then most games. Then on top of that I said to them when you get a ASI you can ups stats like normal and pick a feat but if you pick a feat with a stat increase you don't get the increase from the feat. My players have been picking Charger, spellsniper, healer, one of the armor proficiency one, Ect...

Next campaign I'm going to use a point buy. But I'll keep the feat when you get a ASI. Now my party is only at lv 6 so I still have more to see how op it gets but. I think that on a point buy it a fun thing to do.

[Tanarii]

As for when to get feats, your idea is pretty sound. I think I'd include 1 at 1st level however. Waiting 5 levels for your first feat might not seem long, but given the XP chart, the first 3 levels are "training" levels and fly by. Level 3 -> 4 is also fairly quick, allowing the player to learn about their Archetype and new abilities that unlocked, but only for a session or so. From 4->5 however, is longer. Players tend to want their build to be online by then. Otherwise they're feeling unpowered.From 4-->5 is about 50% longer than 3-->4 ... 2 whole adventuring days instead of one and a half. It's not really that significant a difference on a relative scale.

Otoh it's still 2 whole adventuring days after level 4 no matter how you slice it haha :smallwink:

[DivisibleByZero]

Feats/ASIs are a big gain in power.
Detaching feats and giving both is going to dramatically increase the players' power levels. I see it with even a single free feat. With 5 free feats you're going to have to build ridiculous encounters that walk the line between pushover/TPK (with no middle ground). That's not going be fun for the players, anything remotely challenging almost certainly kills them all. And it's not going to be fun for you, designing encounters.
Do as you wish, but I would not advise it.

[Grey Watcher]

I would say you're probably best served by going back to the 3E/Pathfinder model of gaining ASI's and feats based on overall character level instead of at designated places in the class progression, with some tweaking required for Fighters and others who don't get the standard 4/8/12/16/19 ASIs. When I've seen it done, feats that include +1 to an ability score lose that part and only count as half a feat.

As for balancing against all this as a DM... I am nowhere near experienced enough to help.