Archtypical Fantasy Video Game "Hero"(i.e. "Protagonist") character build

[Schattenbach]

Hello,

the current discussion in that Caster/Non-Caster issues topic reminded me about something and here it is ...

... what would a decent "Hero" character (the balanced type that's at least reasonably good in terms of both arcane magical and martial capabilities as well as, maybe, some healing based powers and such... without exessive pre-buffing, that is) look like in DnD 3.5? And how would an optimized version of that (lets take someone or something like Yuusha from Maoyuu Maou Yuusha as example)?

Now that I think about it, CHA (well, or Wis ... but there isn't much of that as far as Arcane Casting is concerned) based casting (spontaneous seems more fitting, too) might actually fit better for that concept than prepared casting (especially Int based prepared casting). I'm going to edit the first post about that.


Now that I think about it, CHA (well, or Wis ... but there isn't much of that as far as Arcane Casting is concerned) based casting (spontaneous seems more fitting, too) might actually fit better for that concept than prepared casting (especially Int based prepared casting). I'm going to edit the first post about that.

[digiman619]

If you want a vidoegame-y gish, you want the ethermagus (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/ethermagus). It represents "regenerating mana bar" better than any d20 system I've yet seen, and the ethermagus is the magus/psychic warrior/warpriest of the system.

[Kaje]

Sounds exactly like a duskblade with a greatsword to me.

[Schattenbach]

If you want a vidoegame-y gish, you want the ethermagus (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/ethermagus). It represents "regenerating mana bar" better than any d20 system I've yet seen, and the ethermagus is the magus/psychic warrior/warpriest of the system.

It doesn't actually have to have any kind of Mana Regeneration that's comparable to plenty of new games or MMORPGs don't actually have quick MP regeneration speed (sure, that enables one to do more stuff, but well) ... and DnD 3.5 has the spell point system (it doesn't take much work to change the name of "Spell Points to "Mana"/"MP"). Edit: As for the class itself ... thanks, I will look into it first before replying about that as I pretty much know nothing about it.


Sounds exactly like a duskblade with a greatsword to me.

Duskblade lacks native access to high-level spells, though, don't they (not that there might not be ways around that, I guess)? Which isn't exactly all that great for optimization purpose.

Now that I think about it, CHA (well, or Wis ... but there isn't much of that as far as Arcane Casting is concerned) based casting (spontaneous seems more fitting, too) might actually fit better for that concept than prepared casting (especially Int based prepared casting). I'm going to edit the first post about that.

[Xerlith]

Most of the time, the Pathfinder version of Paladin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin) completely suits all the needs. Properly archetyped, it can easily fit most of the Good hero cliches.

For a more gishy character, we swing through the Bloodrager (japanese games seem to have their nests here) to the Bard (Arcane Duelist seems like a good staring place).

As for Yuusha in 3.5, specifically, my money's on...

Cloistered (Knowledge, Travel, War) Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/Ordained Champion 5.

[Zanos]

A character who is equally good at both isn't going to have high level spells, since that would be the province of a dedicated caster or focused giah build.

Bards, rangers, psychic warriors, and the previously mentioned gish builds can do this.

[Krazzman]

I think for some archetypes of hero a Ranger is the best class.
They have magic albeit later and not that great but could heal.
They get a special companion.
They get access to light armor which most heroes seem to focus on.
They are trained in swordplay and can focus on archery or melee.

On another note I have to second the mention of pathfinder Paladin. If you can't build a hero with the chosen one archetype you are just not trying. Again they get swordplay, companion, magical abilities but they get a cha focus in Pathfinder.

For 3.5 I would go either ranger or some sort of initiator for a hero type... or duskblade into a prestige class to get some healing abilities without stunting the duskblade abilities. I once played a Bidenhander using Duskblade6/Ranger1. He was not build for heroics but quite effective... even after being trapped in a coliseum and "winning" an adamantine sword.

[Coidzor]

Bard with default access to the cure spells and the Divine Bard's spell lists.

Or possibly a gestalt Paladin//Bard.

[DMVerdandi]

At his core, Yuusha(Hero) is most likely a Ruby Knight vindicator.
Without the wee jas Iconography initially as the hero, but as the black knight, the original fluff is almost perfect (as Maoh/Ruby Eyes looks exactly like wee jas , but with... ehem. Oppai. )


I say that, because he has sword techniques not unlike a martial adept, but also has pretty high level spells.
You could do it with Crusader 1/Cloistered Cleric 4(Shadow and Magic Domain are best). Take Practiced spell caster,Spontaneous domain caster (shadow domain) and voila.



As far as personal build for a Yuusha/Brave/Hero type character?
Warblade//STP erudite(dragon 319). I'll sing it's praises till the cows come home.

Under more conservative standings, Cleric is probably the best choice, with Battle sorcerer, Bard, Factotum, and Druid being the next.
It would all depend on the setting though.

[SoraWolf7]

If you're looking for the "archtypical" example, you usually need sword-and-board, healing, and minor damaging spells.

Gestalt would make this easy, your healing/spellcasting on one side and your melee on the other. How wide a variety on each side would be up to you depending on how intricate you want the build to become.

If you're doing standard 3.5 building, the Combat Medic prestige class from Heroes of Battle seems appropriate, with quick healing, the sanctuary effect and Reflex save boosts for keeping the party and yourself alive. So perhaps add that in somehow, but I agree that some kinda healer melee fighter is necessary. Also, in before Factotum answer.

[Schattenbach]

Thanks for the help.


Most of the time, the Pathfinder version of Paladin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin) completely suits all the needs. Properly archetyped, it can easily fit most of the Good hero cliches.

For a more gishy character, we swing through the Bloodrager (japanese games seem to have their nests here) to the Bard (Arcane Duelist seems like a good staring place).

I'm not that familiar with the Bloodrager ... from what I remember, was that the class that had some remotely limit break/overdrive-like based mechanic build in as class feature?


As for Yuusha in 3.5, specifically, my money's on...

Cloistered (Knowledge, Travel, War) Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/Ordained Champion 5.


At his core, Yuusha(Hero) is most likely a Ruby Knight vindicator.
Without the wee jas Iconography initially as the hero, but as the black knight, the original fluff is almost perfect (as Maoh/Ruby Eyes looks exactly like wee jas , but with... ehem. Oppai. )


I say that, because he has sword techniques not unlike a martial adept, but also has pretty high level spells.
You could do it with Crusader 1/Cloistered Cleric 4(Shadow and Magic Domain are best). Take Practiced spell caster,Spontaneous domain caster (shadow domain) and voila.


Cloistered Cleric (Favoured Soul might be more likely, though, as he seems to use a standard subset of magic that, overall, is used more instinctively than anything else, but well ... that is more difficult to pull off due to lack of turn undead and being extremely MAD)/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator seems quite likely but I'm not exactly sure in regard to Ordained Champion.



As far as personal build for a Yuusha/Brave/Hero type character?
Warblade//STP erudite(dragon 319). I'll sing it's praises till the cows come home.

Under more conservative standings, Cleric is probably the best choice, with Battle sorcerer, Bard, Factotum, and Druid being the next.
It would all depend on the setting though.

Warblade//STP Erudide would be pretty evil indeed (though mostly because STP erudite is just that good and flexible). Battle Sorcerer (or, depending on the setting) Domain Sorcerer or straight Sorcerer would be the easiest attempt to pull this off (no much Healing in that case, though ... however, some "holy item" could easily fix that to begin with, as could a dip or so in something that might provide access to healing) in general, though depending on the build, it's a hassle to get 9th level spells (not like they're strictly necessary, though, at least preEpic).

Though I wonder about how to effectievly progress these builds into epic levels. Primary focus on casting-based PrCs or using some epic progression of the Jade Phoenix Mage or Ruby Knight Vindicator respectively?


I think for some archetypes of hero a Ranger is the best class.
They have magic albeit later and not that great but could heal.
They get a special companion.
They get access to light armor which most heroes seem to focus on.
They are trained in swordplay and can focus on archery or melee.

On another note I have to second the mention of pathfinder Paladin. If you can't build a hero with the chosen one archetype you are just not trying. Again they get swordplay, companion, magical abilities but they get a cha focus in Pathfinder.

For 3.5 I would go either ranger or some sort of initiator for a hero type... or duskblade into a prestige class to get some healing abilities without stunting the duskblade abilities. I once played a Bidenhander using Duskblade6/Ranger1. He was not build for heroics but quite effective... even after being trapped in a coliseum and "winning" an adamantine sword.

I'm not to sure about ranger, pathfinder paladin or duskblade ... they all lack easy high-level spell access (i.e. no spells beyond 6 level) which is quite irritating on its own and a mount/companion can be aquired via RP, spending gold or using magic.



If you're looking for the "archtypical" example, you usually need sword-and-board, healing, and minor damaging spells.

Gestalt would make this easy, your healing/spellcasting on one side and your melee on the other. How wide a variety on each side would be up to you depending on how intricate you want the build to become.

If you're doing standard 3.5 building, the Combat Medic prestige class from Heroes of Battle seems appropriate, with quick healing, the sanctuary effect and Reflex save boosts for keeping the party and yourself alive. So perhaps add that in somehow, but I agree that some kinda healer melee fighter is necessary. Also, in before Factotum answer.

I'm don't like Gestalt all that much and thus try to avoid it if possible. While combat medic does have some perks, I'm not sure if it's actually worth it, though, to invest all that much levels into it. Depending on the build, things would end up being terribly MAD, too.

[Xerlith]

Thanks for the help.



I'm not that familiar with the Bloodrager ... from what I remember, was that the class that had some remotely limit break/overdrive-like based mechanic build in as class feature?

No, it's basically Barbarian with Hexblade spellcasting, who gets additional buffs (depending on their bloodline) when raging. Think Natsu from Fairy Tail or any Dragon Ball character when powering up. A self-buffing gish-lite, the Paladin to Sorcerer's Cleric.



Cloistered Cleric (Favoured Soul might be more likely, though, as he seems to use a standard subset of magic that, overall, is used more instinctively than anything else, but well ... that is more difficult to pull off due to lack of turn undead and being extremely MAD)/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator seems quite likely but I'm not exactly sure in regard to Ordained Champion.

The Hero we meet starts already at a high enough level. The Cloistered Cleric is purely for mechanical reasons. The Favored Soul wouldn't work, and since the Cleric can easily enough be fluffed as "believing in oneself", it's not a terrible stretch. Ordained Champion I added mostly because for the free goodies it gives, and because Ordained Champion levels > Cleric levels.



I'm not to sure about ranger, pathfinder paladin or duskblade ... they all lack easy high-level spell access (i.e. no spells beyond 6 level) which is quite irritating on its own and a mount/companion can be aquired via RP, spending gold or using magic.

Yes, but the paladin and/or Duskblade do lend themselves to the trope of a (Magic!) Knight in Shining Armour easily enough. I'd also go out on a limb to say the classic Bard/Crusader/Sublime Chord/Jade Phoenix Mage works here well enough, being a Gish with 9th level Sorcerer spells (Getting access to healing spells via Bard makes it all stick together).

[Prime32]

... what would a decent "Hero" character (the balanced type that's at least reasonably good in terms of both arcane magical and martial capabilities as well as, maybe, some healing based powers and such... without exessive pre-buffing, that is) look like in DnD 3.5? And how would an optimized version of that (lets take someone or something like Yuusha from Maoyuu Maou Yuusha as example)?
That archetype mostly originates from the AD&D ranger class - good-only human and half-elven warriors who defended frontier settlements. They were skilled at tracking, gained bonuses against humanoids and giants, could cast low-level spells from multiple lists (because they just learn whatever seems useful without caring about how it works), and attracted followers at higher levels like a fighter (but with the option to have a smaller number of more powerful/monstrous allies).

The 3e "nature worshiper who fights alongside a trained animal while wielding a bow or two weapons" ranger class is pretty distant from this model, but the factotum from Dungeonscape can pull off the tricks you're looking for pretty well. At high levels they can even cast 7th-level wizard spells while wearing armor, but with severe limitations.