what's the difference between a stick and a spellcasting focus?

[BeefGood]

Wooden things like rods, wands, and staves can be arcane spellcasting foci. Say a wizard has been using a component pouch but accidently drops it into the camp fire. The pouch and its entire contents burn. So, the wizard pulls a stick out of the fire and voila--he has replaced the component pouch with a spellcasting focus, a rod or wand or staff depending on the size of the stick. Is there anything in the rules that disallows this?

[JackPhoenix]

The "stick" serving as spellcasting focus is specially designed and crafted that way. If you use 5+ gp "sticks" as firewood, go ahead, but it's not just any random branch. Note how quarterstaff is also a "stick", but cost only 2 sp and doesn't mentions it can be used as spellcasting focus.

[MukkTB]

First you have to tape 5 gold pieces to the stick.

[JackPhoenix]

First you have to tape 5 gold pieces to the stick.

The taping also requires woodcarver's tool proficiency and takes a whole day

[Zilong]

A spellcasting focus is just a stick a wizard/sorcerer/etc has stared at for a really long time.

[Potato_Priest]

Well, it depends. Given that it's a wizard, I'd make them tape 5gp to the stick. If it was a druid, well, practically anything goes.

In all seriousness, I actually had a mini-campaign where the adventurers were temporarily deprived of all their equipment. We didn't have a wild shape druid or a monk, so it was pretty balanced. We did, however, have a cleric and a bard. For his divine symbol, the cleric scratched the image of Mjolnir onto a rock with a piece of flint and used it, and the bard crafted a rudimentary guitar-like instrument out of a curved piece of bark and some entrails. Had a wizard been present, I would have made him/her craft a focus out of something vaguely magical. Arcane focuses, as the PHB states, are DESIGNED to channel arcane spells.

[BeefGood]

Im hearing two things: the price and that it has to be specially constructed. The rulebooks don't give us more than that. I understand that the rule books can't spell😃 out everything but still....we have the concept of attunement but its not applied to spellcasting foci. We have rules for crafting magic objects but not rules for crafting spellcasting foci. Seemes like an omission.

[Anderlith]

Its not just a stick, its a tool, something that allows you to put crosshairs to your attack spells, & an anchor for your buffs. Its how you shortcut the magic formuli & still keep your head intact.

You gotta carve runes in it, & tool your mind on how to focus to its particular shape. That way when you are casting a spell you think about a symbol like pi, instead of a huge number like 3.1415 etc, your Ray of Frost shoots straight because you visualize it coming out the tip & aim with that. Your Burning Hands create a cone shaped from the second & third looping band your carved into it creating a visual 30° angle so kt doesnt flare wide & hit allies.

So you could use driftwood it you polished & shined it & carved some runes in it.

[JAL_1138]

Special preparation and cost aside, the art for the Wand of Polymorph (which spawned the magnificent "Wand of Frog" thread on here shortly after the DMG or a preview thereof released) is literally a picture of a frog tied to the end of a stick.

[Sans.]

Was really hoping this was gonna be a joke... it was :D

[RumoCrytuf]

Wooden things like rods, wands, and staves can be arcane spellcasting foci. Say a wizard has been using a component pouch but accidently drops it into the camp fire. The pouch and its entire contents burn. So, the wizard pulls a stick out of the fire and voila--he has replaced the component pouch with a spellcasting focus, a rod or wand or staff depending on the size of the stick. Is there anything in the rules that disallows this?

That's certainly a creative way of doing it. But let's flesh it out some more.

The wizard, a bumbling dragonborn, is sorting the components in his party's pouch. While he's sorting these delicate components, he sneezes, releasing a gout of flame and dropping the pouch into the fire. Dismayed at the loss of some extremely valuable components (Powdered Basilisk Tooth, a jar full of Slaad eyes, etc...) He sighs and sits in the dirt. However, some branches in the fire begin to glow with arcane energy. He reaches out and pulls one of these sticks out of the fire. Realizing what could occur if the proper incantations are spoken, the wizard quickly says some words over the stick. It's shape twists and contorts, the magick energies pulsating through it as it becomes a magical focus for his spells. The druid is still pissed that she lost her Hydra Scales though.

[Anderlith]

Special preparation and cost aside, the art for the Wand of Polymorph (which spawned the magnificent "Wand of Frog" thread on here shortly after the DMG or a preview thereof released) is literally a picture of a frog tied to the end of a stick.

Yes, but its magic. Magic frog does all the work

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Special preparation and cost aside, the art for the Wand of Polymorph (which spawned the magnificent "Wand of Frog" thread on here shortly after the DMG or a preview thereof released) is literally a picture of a frog tied to the end of a stick.

But that just proves there is a difference between a stick and a spell-casting focus. Admittedly, the difference is 'tied a rare and expensive frog to the end of the stick' (and probably embalmed the frog somehow), but that's still a difference-- a highly visible one, even.

[Vogonjeltz]

Wooden things like rods, wands, and staves can be arcane spellcasting foci. Say a wizard has been using a component pouch but accidently drops it into the camp fire. The pouch and its entire contents burn. So, the wizard pulls a stick out of the fire and voila--he has replaced the component pouch with a spellcasting focus, a rod or wand or staff depending on the size of the stick. Is there anything in the rules that disallows this?

"An arcane focus is a special item ... designed to channel the power of arcane spells." (PHB 151)

Emphasis added.

So, although the material might be used in such a thing, they are no more the same than a hunk of beef is a full-fledged cow or a twig is a baseball bat.

[Slipperychicken]

I like the harry potter route, say wands have fancy supernatural bits at their cores, like unicorn hairs, phoenix feathers, herbs, dragon heartstrings, and whatnot. It explains why you have to pick up special ingredients at a shop.

That way, if you really wanted to, you could have a feral magician who's hung out in the woods long enough to scavenge suitable wand materials. But you can't do it overnight unless you know what you're doing and are lucky enough to find just the right stuff.


Im hearing two things: the price and that it has to be specially constructed. The rulebooks don't give us more than that. I understand that the rule books can't spell😃 out everything but still....we have the concept of attunement but its not applied to spellcasting foci. We have rules for crafting magic objects but not rules for crafting spellcasting foci. Seemes like an omission.

That's the thing. Spellcasting foci are not magic items, they don't even have an aura or anything. They are just tools that make spellcasting easier. The rules for crafting non-magical items would apply to wands.

[Fishyninja]

"An arcane focus is a special item ... designed to channel the power of arcane spells." (PHB 151)

Emphasis added.

So, although the material might be used in such a thing, they are no more the same than a hunk of beef is a full-fledged cow or a twig is a baseball bat.

I designed a Sorcerer for a campaign which never materialised and I wrote this huge backtory for the character which the DM loved, I wanted to use some mysterious tattoos that the sorcere had to be his focus but I was told it had to be a physical object, surely the ink would count as a physical object?

[Zorku]

I picture arcane wands as generally having at least some metal filaments arranged just so, and generally a few runes somewhere that light up under certain circumstances like one well known fantasy ring. These are usually very symmetric, because those shapes are easier for craftsmen to understand.

Certain gnarled branches can work as soon as you have removed the bark, but you've got to pluck them off of a tree growing right out of a ley line or nexus, and you can sense that it's properly conductive for arcane energies before you remove it from the old tree.

All fluff of course. Mechanically it's just meant to be something that's as hard to get your hands on as a pouch full of components would be.


I designed a Sorcerer for a campaign which never materialised and I wrote this huge backtory for the character which the DM loved, I wanted to use some mysterious tattoos that the sorcere had to be his focus but I was told it had to be a physical object, surely the ink would count as a physical object?
Your DM probably intends for it to be an object that you must handle using your hands and that could be confiscated from you. Maybe if you could come up with an easy way to disable the tattoo and need to trace it with your fingers to cast they'd be more into the idea.

[Iden Elric]

A spellcasting focus is just a stick a wizard/sorcerer/etc has stared at for a really long time.

Next time I'm on the crapper, I'll bring some oak dowling with me, then I'll see if I can cast a magic missile and mage shield after I've finished taking a particularly long dump.

[Fishyninja]

Your DM probably intends for it to be an object that you must handle using your hands and that could be confiscated from you. Maybe if you could come up with an easy way to disable the tattoo and need to trace it with your fingers to cast they'd be more into the idea.

Fair enough, he didn't give an explanation as to why I couldn't have it, it was just a straight up nope.

[Toadkiller]

Yeah, in a situation like that I might say if the character had a lodestone or something that pulled the power from the tattoo ink. Or something. But yeah, I can see wanting to make there be something in the character's hand to prevent shenanigans.

[Fishyninja]

Fair enough, he didn't give an explanation as to why I couldn't have it, it was just a straight up nope.


Yeah, in a situation like that I might say if the character had a lodestone or something that pulled the power from the tattoo ink. Or something. But yeah, I can see wanting to make there be something in the character's hand to prevent shenanigans.

Hmm on that basis then if I ever get chance to use this character I'll state rather than it being a permanent tattoo, I'll make it something like warpaint? I.e. can be removed if my character is caught?

[Ghost Nappa]

If you go the Harry Potter route, wands are magical sticks because the wood has been hollowed out with a magical essence from a dragon or a unicorn. The wooden stick part is more or less to contain and protect that essence so it's usable. I imagine just pointing dragon heartstrings at someone is a bit unwieldy.

[Fishyninja]

If you go the Harry Potter route, wands are magical sticks because the wood has been hollowed out with a magical essence from a dragon or a unicorn. The wooden stick part is more or less to contain and protect that essence so it's usable. I imagine just pointing dragon heartstrings at someone is a bit unwieldy.

Makes you look hardcore though, especially if you have just ripped them from the Dragon and they are still dripping!

[Laserlight]

I designed a Sorcerer for a campaign which never materialised and I wrote this huge backtory for the character which the DM loved, I wanted to use some mysterious tattoos that the sorcere had to be his focus but I was told it had to be a physical object, surely the ink would count as a physical object?

I wouldn't allow it because the entire point of a focus is that it can be taken away.

Edit: Irolled a 1 for initiative and got shadowmonked so hard...

[tieren]

Hmm on that basis then if I ever get chance to use this character I'll state rather than it being a permanent tattoo, I'll make it something like warpaint? I.e. can be removed if my character is caught?

He might want to make sure you aren't trying to get a free hand for TWF or something with your focus on your body. I'd bet wearing a special bracelet and using the hand to activate the tattoo (as opposed to doing anything else) would be sufficient.

If captured they can take the bracelet to stop you from accessing, and you still need the hand free for somatic components or manipulating the foci/tattoo.

[tieren]

If you go the Harry Potter route, wands are magical sticks because the wood has been hollowed out with a magical essence from a dragon or a unicorn. The wooden stick part is more or less to contain and protect that essence so it's usable. I imagine just pointing dragon heartstrings at someone is a bit unwieldy.

With their innate magical ability I always thought the darkest wand core would be house-elf spinal cord. I doubt Olivanders would carry it though.

[Fishyninja]

He might want to make sure you aren't trying to get a free hand for TWF or something with your focus on your body. I'd bet wearing a special bracelet and using the hand to activate the tattoo (as opposed to doing anything else) would be sufficient.

If captured they can take the bracelet to stop you from accessing, and you still need the hand free for somatic components or manipulating the foci/tattoo.

Speaking of the Tattoo in question. I was thinking of would be on the palm of my hand, therefore I would need my second hand in order draw/mark the tattoo on my palm.

[Coffee_Dragon]

Hmm on that basis then if I ever get chance to use this character I'll state rather than it being a permanent tattoo, I'll make it something like warpaint? I.e. can be removed if my character is caught?

"The frogs catch you and wipe off your 5 gp warpaint."

"How would they know the paint is my focus? You're totally metagaming!"

[Fishyninja]

"The frogs catch you and wipe off your 5 gp warpaint."

"How would they know the paint is my focus? You're totally metagaming!"

Another valid point, however if some of them ahd seen me casting spells from my hand that may be a reason to remove anything from my hands, but again I get your point.

[CursedRhubarb]

Speaking of the Tattoo in question. I was thinking of would be on the palm of my hand, therefore I would need my second hand in order draw/mark the tattoo on my palm.

If you go with a crystal foci this could be doable. My Lock uses a crystal set in a ring. Keeps it in my hand and the DM let's me go with a dagger in each hand, just can't use the off-hand one if I'm casting spells.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqk2rnwhWM1qh4vkao1_400.png

[Fishyninja]

If you go with a crystal foci this could be doable. My Lock uses a crystal set in a ring. Keeps it in my hand and the DM let's me go with a dagger in each hand, just can't use the off-hand one if I'm casting spells.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqk2rnwhWM1qh4vkao1_400.png

But I wanna tattoooooooooo! :smallwink:

Ok I'm getting the feeling that really it has to be a physical, removable object etc. I'll stop with the body paint.

[Laserlight]

But I wanna tattoooooooooo! :smallwink:

Ok I'm getting the feeling that really it has to be a physical, removable object etc. I'll stop with the body paint.

Of course, a tattoo IS removable, if the setting is gritty enough...

[Coffee_Dragon]

"The frogs capture you and strip you of the mana crystals you grafted to the inside of your sternum."

"NOT AGAIN"

[MasterMercury]

Of course, a tattoo IS removable, if the setting is gritty enough...

Haha. Reminds me of an old player. His cleric had a tattoo of his holy symbol on his hand. At about level five, a shark bit his hand off, with a critical hit. I warned him it would be risky to reach for that gemstone in the deep water.

The Cleric immediately jumped into the water, killed the shark with a dagger in his off hand, dragged the shark to shore, gutted it, and then pickled his hand in a jar of vinegar.
He never got the hand reattached, instead he wore it on a chain around his neck.
Old Graich the Metal, the one-handed dwarf with two hands.


On topic, Arcane foci should be somewhat difficult to find, but easy enough to procure in most towns with a decent craftsman.
Divine Foci, however, are a different kettle of fish.

[Fishyninja]

Of course, a tattoo IS removable, if the setting is gritty enough...


"The frogs capture you and strip you of the mana crystals you grafted to the inside of your sternum."

"NOT AGAIN"

Damnit Coffee, ruining my fun again! :smallbiggrin:

[Vogonjeltz]

I designed a Sorcerer for a campaign which never materialised and I wrote this huge backtory for the character which the DM loved, I wanted to use some mysterious tattoos that the sorcere had to be his focus but I was told it had to be a physical object, surely the ink would count as a physical object?

Before it became a tattoo, yes.

After receiving a tattoo, the ink literally is part of your body.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/the-real-reason-tattoos-are-permanent/374825/

In terms of D&D, the rule for the Arcane focus is that such an item would need to be similar to the other options.

This would preclude any thing that can not be given to another creature.

For acceptable "similar" items, I'd probably allow almost anything on the trinkets table to be specified as being the characters arcane focus, but only one that has a deeper meaning (i.e. they might use a particular old key, or a rabbit's foot as their focus, but it has to be that specific key or rabbit's foot, any other key or rabbit foot would just be a key/foot to them). I'd probably also require them to carve runes into the key, or do some kind of ceremony with the foot, or have it be of a particular significance to their background (i.e. My brother gave me this foot for luck before he left for the war, and it was while I was grieving for him that I discovered my powers).

[Fishyninja]

Before it became a tattoo, yes.

After receiving a tattoo, the ink literally is part of your body.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/the-real-reason-tattoos-are-permanent/374825/

In terms of D&D, the rule for the Arcane focus is that such an item would need to be similar to the other options.

This would preclude any thing that can not be given to another creature.

For acceptable "similar" items, I'd probably allow almost anything on the trinkets table to be specified as being the characters arcane focus, but only one that has a deeper meaning (i.e. they might use a particular old key, or a rabbit's foot as their focus, but it has to be that specific key or rabbit's foot, any other key or rabbit foot would just be a key/foot to them). I'd probably also require them to carve runes into the key, or do some kind of ceremony with the foot, or have it be of a particular significance to their background (i.e. My brother gave me this foot for luck before he left for the war, and it was while I was grieving for him that I discovered my powers).

*Hangs head in resignation that his sorcerer doesn't get cool tattoos*.....fine I'll give him a neclace or something :smalltongue: