Knights of Solamnia 5e

[Krivelios]

Hello everyone,

I am converting my 3.5 adventure on Dragonlance to 5e.
Several races and classes are pretty easy to convert but knights...

I have seen multiclass builds (crown as UA knight, sword as paladin, rose as war domain cleric)

I have seen a Prestige class build (http://www.tribality.com/2015/10/09/prestige-class-dragonlances-solamnic-knight-of-the-crown/)

I have a archetype build (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0YpHY7aXiEBS1M5dXMxR3V5c2M/edit)

So far, none of theses are 100% for me. I would like some inputs and ideas.

[Arcangel4774]

First you have to identify which are the key attributes you want to bring out, and which things can pretty much go with the wind.

[Krivelios]

First you have to identify which are the key attributes you want to bring out, and which things can pretty much go with the wind.

Yeah I agree that 5e is all about "make it simple" and I dont want to under/overpower with houserules.

But I dont want also to loose the "flavour". Working on it.

[Herobizkit]

Seems like Paladin with the Noble/Knight background is what you're looking for.

Paladin of Devotion (Crown), Paladin of the Crown (Sword), and maybe Battlemaster Fighter or Purple Dragon Knight (Rose).

If you're not worried about losing the flavour, don't - flavour isn't represented by mechanics.

[igordragonian]

It's really a lot of matter of renaming things.
The 3.5 solmanic knights were mostly paladins which had some if barbarian rage called something like 'Honor power"
But you could just take paladins and rename their traits.

Remember that the original Sturm Brightblade was a fighter...

So I think that Purple Dragon Knights represent them better than paladins, because most are not casters..

[Spellbreaker26]

If you're not worried about losing the flavour, don't - flavour isn't represented by mechanics.

I don't know, I think it is. There's such a thing as ludonarrative dissonance, and it will pull a player right out of an experience.

[Krivelios]

I don't know, I think it is. There's such a thing as ludonarrative dissonance, and it will pull a player right out of an experience.

Your comment is perfect. That is why i will take as long as necessary on this convertion. I want my players to keep playing the same characters. And theirs powers can change that I like it or not.

[Spellbreaker26]

I'm looking at their lore, (gradually grow in power, eventually gain access to clerical spells from Paladine and Kiri-Jolith). What exactly do paladins lack that you're looking for in Knights of Solamnia?

[Krivelios]

I'm looking at their lore, (gradually grow in power, eventually gain access to clerical spells from Paladine and Kiri-Jolith). What exactly do paladins lack that you're looking for in Knights of Solamnia?

What all classes misses: requirements and progression. To become a knight of the Rose you must have been a knight of the crown and a knight of the sword. It is like this since 2e. And even some novels reflect that. That is the real challenge.

[Spellbreaker26]

What all classes misses: requirements and progression. To become a knight of the Rose you must have been a knight of the crown and a knight of the sword. It is like this since 2e. And even some novels reflect that. That is the real challenge.

Aha, I think I have your solution, but it's not going to be simple.

Nesting prestige classes.

To take the Knight of the Crown prestige class, you must have at least 5 levels in fighter and/or paladin. You can then start leveling up in Crown.

To take the Knight of the Sword prestige class, you must have at least 5 levels in Crown. (so starting, at minimum, at level 11). You can choose to instead take further levels in Crown instead or after taking levels in Sword take a few more in Crown.

To take the Knight of the Rose prestige class, you must have at least 5 levels in Sword. (so starting, at minimum, at level 16).

So you're going to have to develop three prestige classes, the first fifteen levels long, the second ten levels long and the third five levels long. Does this sound like what you're looking for?

[Krivelios]

Aha, I think I have your solution, but it's not going to be simple.

Nesting prestige classes.

To take the Knight of the Crown prestige class, you must have at least 5 levels in fighter and/or paladin. You can then start leveling up in Crown.

To take the Knight of the Sword prestige class, you must have at least 5 levels in Crown. (so starting, at minimum, at level 11). You can choose to instead take further levels in Crown instead or after taking levels in Sword take a few more in Crown.

To take the Knight of the Rose prestige class, you must have at least 5 levels in Sword. (so starting, at minimum, at level 16).

So you're going to have to develop three prestige classes, the first fifteen levels long, the second ten levels long and the third five levels long. Does this sound like what you're looking for?

Yes. And the 1st post here is one link as example. But I am worried about balance. Prestige is one of the Thousand things that broke (and made fun) 3.5.

But so far is the best option. Or a simple multiclass

[MrFahrenheit]

It's more than just progression between the three knighthoods though. To put a loose modern spin on it (which admittedly ignores the birth/squire requirements), crown = enlisted, sword = warrant officer, and rose = officer. You could have a full career in either of the former two without HAVING to proceed to the last, though you did need to have crown levels in order to get sword ones.

My advice: make it an organization/background thing for 5e, separate from classes.

[Tanarii]

What all classes misses: requirements and progression. To become a knight of the Rose you must have been a knight of the crown and a knight of the sword. It is like this since 2e. And even some novels reflect that. That is the real challenge.The tricky part is a Knight of the Crown and Knight of the Rose is just a Fighter with the Noble or Knight variant background, whereas the Knight of the Sword is (eventually) a divine spellcaster with the same background. Knights of the Rose never gain spellcasting because KotS gets them at level 6, when a KotR has already left that order.

Probably the easiest way to do it is:
Knight of the Crown: Single Classed Fighter with Noble/Knight background. (Edit: Possibly Soldier Background, but that ensures you're stuck in the KotC order.)
Knight of the Sword: Single Classed Fighter to level 5, then MC War Cleric from that point on (getting level 7 spells at level 18). Noble/Knight background. In the KotC order until level 3 is attained.
Knight of the Rose: Single Classed Fighter with Noble/Knight background. In the KotC order until level 3 is attained, in the KotS order until level 5 is attained.

[eastmabl]

Here's my stab at it - fill in the requirements as you see fit.

While paladins, with their baked-in oath, may be the best choice for a Knight of Solamnia, too much of their power is built into the spellcasting and smite abilities that aren't present in established canon. Thus, I would suggest creating a fighter martial archetype (guidelines below), and borrow from the paladin oaths, battlemaster manuevers and purple dragon knight/banneret.

Fighter (Knight of Solamnia)

3rd level

Est Solarus oth Mithas. The knight takes the oath, and derives abilities from his oath. To continue gaining abilities under this martial archetype, the KoS must be accepted to subsequent knightly orders. If he breaks the oath, he loses his abilities until he atones.
Initiate of the Crown. The KoS gains whatever baseline ability that you want to give the knight - perhaps a limited resource that allows the knight to deal extra damage.


7th level

Knight of the Crown. The KoS gains whatever ability that you want to give the full-bore knight - perhaps something that makes the knight a leader of troops, like a Charisma bonus to saving throws.


10th level

Knight of the Sword. The KoS gains whatever ability that you want to give to this order.As the knight has increased in leadership, an ability that represents the increased responsibility should do the trick.


15th level

Knight of the Rose. The KoS gains whatever ability that you want to give to this order - perhaps something that soups up damage more.


18th level

Capstone Ability. The KoS becomes the living embodiment of Huma, and gets one of a couple of options that reflect Huma's legend.


Admittedly, it's been a little while since I've dusted off my Dragonlance books, so take that as a suggestion and fill in what you believe is appropriate.

[Knaight]

I'm not particularly familiar with the source material, but from this thread here's what I've picked up (feel free to correct it if wrong)

The knights have three orders, Crown, Sword, and Rose
Crown knights can become Sword knights, and Sword knights can become Rose knights.
Those that don't switch orders can still become highly capable within their order.
Crown knights are pretty conventional knights (horses, lances, heavy armor).
Sword and Rose knights have progressively more magic.


Assuming this is correct, one custom class should be able to do it - you'll just want to make the archetypes to fit this. Have some sort of underlying knight like class, then have a set of archetypes that essentially model moving along three different orders in varying way (I wouldn't even specify archetype names, it's just that working these up as individual archetypes better fits existing 5e, and it lets you do finer tuned balancing). Specifically:

Crown I, Sword I, Rose I
Crown I, Sword I, Sword II
Crown I, Sword I, Crown II
Crown I, Crown II, Crown III
Crown I, Crown II, Sword I


Each of these would likely be renamed, but the idea is that they give access to pools of abilities. Crown I-Crown III are different martial abilities (think Battlemaster fighter), the Sword and Rose lines are more magical. As for specifics, I have no idea, having not read Dragonlance. This just works as a general structure to represent a set of nested orders with order specific capabilities.

[Tanarii]

Sword and Rose knights have progressively more magic.Rose Knights don't get any magic. They leave the Order of the Sword before that happens.

I just checked the original sourcebook Dragonlance Adventures, and this is how they worked:

Knights of the Crown are Unearthed Arcana Cavaliers (as are all Solamnic Knights) except with 2d10 HD. KotC could also Weapon specialize. They started with 3 Weapon & 2 Non-Weapon proficiency, and got 1 of each per 2 levels gained. Max level 18.

On becoming Knights of the Sword at level 3, they immediately gained 3 weapon & 2 non-weapon proficiency, and got 2 weapon & 1 non-weapon per 2 levels gained. They started casting at level 6 with 1 level 1 spell per day, going up to 9/9/5/4/3/2/1 (7th level spells) at level 18, max level. Spells could only be prayed for once per week, and took 30 min per spell level of prayer.

On becoming Knights of the Rose at level 4, which originally required Royal Blood but got watered down in later ages, they immediately gained 3 weapon & 2 non-weapon proficiency, and got 2 weapon and 1 non-weapon per 2 levels gained. Max level 18

As Cavaliers all Knights get the following:
Bonuses to hit with lance, one sword type, one horesmen's weapon type.
Increased attacks per round (as if 5 levels higher) with chosen weapons.
Increased Parry chance.
Mounted Combat bonuses for quick mounting and speeding up mount, and being able to ride special mounts.
Steadily increasing Str, Dex & Con scores.
Immune to Fear, protection from Fear aura (good aligned only), 90% immunity to mind affecting magic
Able to function at negative hit points (good aligned only)

And of course a crap-ton of special restrictions and codes of ethics and stuff, both from the Cavalier class and the Knight of Solamnia Order they're a part of. :smallwink:

(Edit: Fixed KotR proficiency gain rate. Note that there's no real reason mechanically to become a Knight of the Rose and delay your XP progression hugely except for the immediate benefit of gaining 3 weapon & 2 non-weapon immediately at level 4. And of course the prestige, and command rights and responsibilities, of being a goddamn Knight of the Rose. :smallbiggrin: )

[Knaight]

Shifting all spells to Sword II would deal with that then, although the entire thing should probably be a subclass at that point, with all 3 subclass abilities being shared for all the Knights of the Crown and the first one involving getting access to the Crown, Sword, and Rose abilities of varying levels, with higher level Sword abilities (starting at 11 or so) being the only magic.

[tarlison2k1]

Maybe this will work
Crown : Fighter
Sword: Multiclass to cleric at level 3 war domain or sorcerer favored soul
Rose: Multiclass to Paladin at level 4 devotion oath

Minimum class
Crown:fighter(x)
Sword: Fighter(2)cleric or sorcerer(x)
Rose: fighter(2)cleric or sorcerer(1)paladin(x)

This will end up the sword will have a min requirements of 13 str and 13 wis while the rose will require 13 str, 13 wis and 13 cha ...not seeing a very good build with this

[Theodoxus]

Here's my stab at it - fill in the requirements as you see fit.

While paladins, with their baked-in oath, may be the best choice for a Knight of Solamnia, too much of their power is built into the spellcasting and smite abilities that aren't present in established canon. Thus, I would suggest creating a fighter martial archetype (guidelines below), and borrow from the paladin oaths, battlemaster manuevers and purple dragon knight/banneret.

Fighter (Knight of Solamnia)

3rd level

Est Solarus oth Mithas. The knight takes the oath, and derives abilities from his oath. To continue gaining abilities under this martial archetype, the KoS must be accepted to subsequent knightly orders. If he breaks the oath, he loses his abilities until he atones.
Initiate of the Crown. The KoS gains whatever baseline ability that you want to give the knight - perhaps a limited resource that allows the knight to deal extra damage.


7th level

Knight of the Crown. The KoS gains whatever ability that you want to give the full-bore knight - perhaps something that makes the knight a leader of troops, like a Charisma bonus to saving throws.


10th level

Knight of the Sword. The KoS gains whatever ability that you want to give to this order.As the knight has increased in leadership, an ability that represents the increased responsibility should do the trick.


15th level

Knight of the Rose. The KoS gains whatever ability that you want to give to this order - perhaps something that soups up damage more.


18th level

Capstone Ability. The KoS becomes the living embodiment of Huma, and gets one of a couple of options that reflect Huma's legend.


Admittedly, it's been a little while since I've dusted off my Dragonlance books, so take that as a suggestion and fill in what you believe is appropriate.

I would go this route, though I'd give each of the archetype levels options, because not everyone wants to progress to Sword and/or Rose. Taking a cue from the Totem Barbarian, I'd go something like:

7th Level: The Knight can choose one of the two following options:
Remain a Knight of the Crown, I'd say gaining the Tough feat for free (and possibly Skilled) OR
Advance to a Knight of the Sword and gain clerical spells, essentially becoming a 1/3rd caster starting at 7th level

10th Level: The knight can choose one of the three following options:
If you're still a Knight of the Crown, you gain a feat of your choice from the following: GWM, HAM, PAM or Shield Master OR
You can advance to a Knight of the Sword and gain clerical spells, essentially becoming a 1/3rd caster starting at 10th level OR
If you're already a Knight of the Sword, you can advance to Knight of the Rose. You no longer gain any spell progression, but you get [x] - not sure outside of in game prestige...

15th Level: Basically the same options - stay Crown, gain another feat choice from above; Go or stay Sword for more spells; Go or stay Rose for ?

18th Level: Capstones for each rank
Crown: One more feat
Sword: Add War Cleric Domain spells up to the spell level you can cast.
Rose: [Something]

I really never understood the desire to go Rose, so I'm having a hard time coming up with anything mechanical for them. Sticking with Crown might seem OP with 4 free feats, but you're giving up cleric spells and prestige (and whatever else Rose might get), so I think it's fair. Plus, IIRC, KotC were the shocktroops of the order, so being able to survive longer and still pour out the damage, while being able to use their ASI for attributes while still keeping pace, is pretty awesome.

[tarlison2k1]

Knights of Neraka
Minimum level of the Order
Knights of the Lily: Paladin of Vengeance(x)
Knights of the skull: Paladin of Vengeance(5)/ Sorcerer Favoured soul(x) or Cleric War Domain(x)
Knights of Thorn: Paladin of Vengeance(5)/Sorcerer any Dragon(x) or Wizard school of divinition(x) or Warlock hex blade pack of the blade(x)

[tarlison2k1]

I would go this route, though I'd give each of the archetype levels options, because not everyone wants to progress to Sword and/or Rose. Taking a cue from the Totem Barbarian, I'd go something like:

7th Level: The Knight can choose one of the two following options:
Remain a Knight of the Crown, I'd say gaining the Tough feat for free (and possibly Skilled) OR
Advance to a Knight of the Sword and gain clerical spells, essentially becoming a 1/3rd caster starting at 7th level

10th Level: The knight can choose one of the three following options:
If you're still a Knight of the Crown, you gain a feat of your choice from the following: GWM, HAM, PAM or Shield Master OR
You can advance to a Knight of the Sword and gain clerical spells, essentially becoming a 1/3rd caster starting at 10th level OR
If you're already a Knight of the Sword, you can advance to Knight of the Rose. You no longer gain any spell progression, but you get [x] - not sure outside of in game prestige...

15th Level: Basically the same options - stay Crown, gain another feat choice from above; Go or stay Sword for more spells; Go or stay Rose for ?

18th Level: Capstones for each rank
Crown: One more feat
Sword: Add War Cleric Domain spells up to the spell level you can cast.
Rose: [Something]

I really never understood the desire to go Rose, so I'm having a hard time coming up with anything mechanical for them. Sticking with Crown might seem OP with 4 free feats, but you're giving up cleric spells and prestige (and whatever else Rose might get), so I think it's fair. Plus, IIRC, KotC were the shocktroops of the order, so being able to survive longer and still pour out the damage, while being able to use their ASI for attributes while still keeping pace, is pretty awesome.

I suggest give the rose some Paladin abilities

[LibraryOgre]

I would probably go with:

Knight of the Crown: Fighter:Banneret (though you might see some Battlemasters or Champions, especially among those who intend to stay in the Crown)
Knight of the Sword: Cleric (War would be the most common)
Knight of the Rose: Paladin (Devotion seems to describe them)

This breakdown would have the High Clerist and the High Justice not necessarily the highest-level members of their class (since they put a few levels in fighter, and the Rose knights would have been Paladins, too), but they would have a good range of abilities that line up with them being Warriors, Clerists, and Justices.

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Ogre: And, as someone pointed out, this is WAY dead. Necromancy is WAY easier than they make it out to be in Oblivion.