Ordained Champion combat feat + out-sourced domain powers

[Jowgen]

The ordained champion PrC grants the following class feature at level 1:


Combat Feats: You can permanently sacrifice one or two of your domain granted powers to acquire an equal number of feats from the list of fighter bonus feats, as long as you meet the prerequisites for them. You may not sacrifice your War domain ability for this purpose. You must choose whether or not to make this exchange when you first become an ordained champion, and you cannot later change your mind.

The intent is obviously for a cleric to trade out his domain granted powers gained from class levels, but there is nothing to prevent for another character with domain powers to trade out theirs. Thing is, there are a bunch of ways to acquire domain granted powers without cleric levels, with varying degrees of permancy. The three that come to mind of the top of my head: the Catalogues of Enlightenment touchstone site, the Statuette of the All-Father item from Dragon 323 p. 88, and the Domain Draughts from MIC.

Touchstone with CoE can grant the domain power permanently, but one also has the option to simply switch to a different touchstone, and then switch back to get a different domain. The Statuette can grant Strength domain access and granted power access each day for that day when used by a cleric of the right alignment while preparing spells (or, someone with the right UMD check arguably). Lastly, the domain draught is expendable and works for a day.

So, the example character who is not a cleric is plugged into the Catalogues of Enlightenment via touchstone, UMD's a Statuette of the All-Father to pretend to be a cleric and gain access to the domain granted power of the strength domain of the day, and drinks a domain draught. Then he gains the first level of Ordained Champion.

So, in your opinion, which of his 3 domain powers (if any) can he trade out for a Fighter Feat, and what happens the next day when a) he switches to a different touchstone, b) re-uses the Statuette of the All-Father, and c) the domain-draught expires?

[Darrin]

So, in your opinion, which of his 3 domain powers (if any) can he trade out for a Fighter Feat, and what happens the next day when a) he switches to a different touchstone, b) re-uses the Statuette of the All-Father, and c) the domain-draught expires?

By RAW, I think I'm OK with the Catalogues of Enlightenment swap. The other two... have a temporary duration, so I'm inclined to say, those feats last as long as the domain power was going to last (1 day), so enjoy 'em while you have 'em. But that's not really RAW.

a) If strict RAW is being enforced in the game, then I'd probably let this slide, because a free fighter feat is going to be the least of my headaches in that sort of game. Otherwise I'd say the Ordained Champion text specifies "permanently sacrifice", so you permanently lose the ability to gain a domain power via Catalogues of Enlightenment. Linking to another planar touchstone site should work fine (most of the base abilities are pretty weak), and if you want to link back to the Catalogues... Higher Order Ability, yes, but base ability no.

b) If I'm invoking the "permanently sacrifice" wording, then the Statuette just stops working for the PC. It still works for someone else, but not him.

c) As with b), I inform the PC that they can never use a domain draught for that particular domain again. If I was feeling particularly vindictive, I might consider sending a Trumpet Archon or Ghaele after the PC to cast embrace the dark chaos (switch the feat to an abyssal heritor feat), shun the dark chaos (switch the abyssal heritor feat to a psionic feat), and ability rip (via spell-storing item, to permanently remove the psionic feat).

[Troacctid]

I would rule that the bonus feat lasts as long as the domain power would have lasted. Domain draught wears off? Feat is gone. Attuned to a different touchstone? Feat is gone.

If you get the domain power back again somehow, it comes back as the domain power, not the feat. The feat exchange was a one-shot deal.

[Jowgen]

Making the feat "expire" when the domain power would have expired was my initial thought also, but it just doesn't sit right with me. Not enough basis in text for my liking, and I can't see a good fluff reason for it either.

I do like the idea that the character looses the ability to access a particular domain permanently, regardless of source (i.e. can't ever gain access to that domain power again). Seems to be within the bounds of the relevant RAW and makes for a more long-term trade off. Also considering that getting access to those domain powers did consume resources comperable to the cost of a dark chaos shuffle, as did qualifying for the PrC in the first place, I feel that on the whole it's somewhat balanced.

I also like the idea of limiting access to the original temporary source, and might personally make it a bit more severe. In this I would probably rule that sacrificing the domain power from that source "locks it in", meaning that any future use of that source to gain any given domain power would automatically try to re-access that domain, which isn't available anymore. In short, if domain draught is used, no domain draught can ever be used again; because the "access point" used by domain draughts has been cannibalized to grant the feat. But that's just my take.