Doctor Despair
2016-12-27, 03:11 PM
Preface
This build is based around the Music of the Gods feat, which reads:
[Epic]
You can use your bardic music to influence creatures immune to mind-affecting effects.
Prerequisite
Perform 30 ranks, CHA 25, bardic music class feature,
Benefit
Your bardic music can affect even those normally immune to mind-affecting effects. However, such creatures gain a +10 bonus on their Will saves to resist such effects.
We all know that Dragonfire Inspiration is a popular way to play bards at high-levels, but Music of the Gods does more than let you buff your Mind Blanked allies. The ability to ignore immunities is difficult to come by, so this is a unique strength bards have available to them. Of course, the feat gives a not-insignficant bonus to the will save of the target as well as bypassing their immunity; the question then becomes: how high must the save must be to be useful?
The highest will saves I've found in the wild, as it were, have been for deities from Deities and Demigods. Certainly deities will visit a bard achieving unnaturally high performance checks; the perform skill's description details that extraplanar beings will begin paying attention to you with a DC 30 check, let alone once they start getting over 100. If you can make your career as an adventurer crucial to the future moves of dragons in the Xorvintaal game (namely Chorranathau or Morlicantha), deities won't even be warned about your plans via their portfolio sense, leaving you with the perfect lure. Now, the highest will save that I found in Deities and Demigods belonged to Corellon Larethian at a whopping 84. Music of the Gods adds ten to that, bringing it up to 94, and then he maximizes his save roll. The text for Always Maximize Roll reads:
Always Maximize Roll: Greater deities (rank 16–20) automatically
get the best result possible on any check, saving throw, attack
roll, or damage roll. Calculate success, failure, or other effects
accordingly. For instance, when a greater deity makes an attack
roll, assume you rolled a 20 and calculate success or failure from
there. You should roll the d20 anyway and use that roll to check for
a threat of a critical hit.
This quality means that greater deities never need the Maximize
Spell feat, because their spells have maximum effect already
The ability grants the "best possible result" on many types of rolls, for while you must calculate success, failure, or other effects. This language is vague and doesn't confirm whether or not any given item on that list can be failed, or if just one can. We know skillchecks can be failed, at least, but we need to read more to know what is meant for other items.
We are given a concrete example: an attack roll where we assume the deity rolled a 20 and calculate success or failure from there. Now, normally rolling a 20 is an automatic success, but here we are told that such an attack roll may result in failure; a distinction is being made between this ability and actually rolling a numerical 20 on a d20. It was suggested to me in a separate thread that perhaps you are meant to calculate success or failure, assuming that the chance of failure is zero percent, but it seems like calculating success or failure is a very strange way to phrase it in this reading since it is an automatic success, not something you need to add or subtract figures for.
The paragraph then concludes by saying we should roll a d20 anyway to check for a threat of a critical hit, not to confirm a critical hit already threatened. I am unaware of any weapon or circumstance where a natural 20 doesn't threaten a critical hit, even if the creature is unable to confirm it do to the target's high AC or otherwise being immune to critical hits for some reason. To me, this suggests that the book is conflating rolling a critical threat with the aspect of automatically hitting on a natural 20 since you then physically roll the die. It was suggested to me that it sounds odd to roll a d20 to check for a critical threat with an expanded critical range if that critical threat (let's say a 17) would not even hit the target, but it seems stranger to me that the deity wouldn't automatically threaten a critical hit without rolling if we assume a maximized "assumed 20" roll is the same as a natural 20.
Based on all this, I would conclude that the way a greater deity's saves function, following the precedent set by attack rolls, would be to add 20 to their base save and have them automatically pass any save equal to or less that increased save. While it is not explicitly asked for, I would then think that the deity should roll a d20 to check for a critical success on their save.
Therefore, the save we need to impose on these abilities to succeed against any deity 19/20 times would be a 115. Upon passing that, any deity as written can be fascinated and suggested -- in fact, any seven deities could be suggested, as per Mass Suggestion. This could result in any sort of world-changing effect one could imagine or, perhaps more ambitiously, attaining some or all of these captive deities divine ranks via Alter Reality if you can phrase the suggestion well enough. However, the question remains: can it be done?
Number-Crunching
It seems best to focus on the Suggestion DC since it will necessarily be more difficult to pump than the Fascinate DC. The formula for Suggestions' DC is 10 + Charisma Bonus + 1/2 Bard's levels.
We want the build to culminate at level 21, the earliest we can get Music of the Gods by RAW. Therefore, I've limited this strategy to LA+3. The highest racial bonus to charisma that I've found is:
Death Touched [race]
Phrenic [template]
Magic Blooded [template]
Unseeley Fey [tempalte]
This adds a cumulative 12 charisma to the bard. An alternative is to drop the Phrenic template and Death Touched race (losing 8 charisma) in favor of:
Half-Giant [race]
Primordial [template]
Saint or Draconic [template]
Magic Blooded [template]
Unseeley Fey [template]
This route with the Draconic template ends up yielding 10 charisma and +1 to SLAs which is effectively equivalent to the Death Touches route, but without the benefit of Phrenic powers. The route with the Saint template yields a cumulative 12 charisma and +2 to SLAs, but has supremely steep RP requirements and a 3-tier feat tax. Each feat sacrificed represents -2 to SLAs down the road, but one of the feats you may take (Vow of Nonviolence) grants +2 to SLAs, meaning that this route ultimately nets 12 charisma and no bonus to SLAs -- once again, equivalent to the Death Touched race.
In the adventure, we also max out his or her age to buff the bard's mental stats. Perhaps for some PO in this TO, we will have to negate those penalties through a method such as befriending a druid to reincarnate the bard multiple times until he gets these templates again, or wishing away the penalties, or using some sort of true mind switch shenanigans to end up in a younger body with these templates and this race. Still, this ultimately grants us a +3 to charisma so long as we do it before level 21.
Regardless, with an 18 in charisma, this leaves us with 33 in charisma at level 0. We also begin with a major fey bloodline, though of course no levels in it since the adventure has not yet begun.
Base 18 (18)
Age 3 (21)
Major Fey Bloodline 1 (22)
Level-Ups 5 (27)
Wishes 5 (32)
Mertoran Leaf 2 (34) [alchemic]
Command item 4 (38) [competence]
Snowsong 4 (52) [morale]
Transfusion 5 (67) *
Righteous Aura 4 (62) [righteous] *
Nixie's Grace w/ Ability Enhancer 10 (48) [enhancement] *
Devil's Ego w/ Ability Enhancer 6 (58) [profane] *
Visage of the Deity, Greater w/ Ability Enhancer 6 (73) *
Worm of Minauros 1 (74)
Break a Pact Insidious 1 (75)
Fiend of Corruption 3 (78) **
Artificer Infusions 72 (150) [various] ***
Magic-Blooded Template 2 (152) [racial]
Unseeley Fey Template 2 (154) [racial]
Phrenic Template 4 (158) [racial]
Death-Touched 4 (162) [racial]
Dragon Devotee 2 (164)
* We have a staff crafted with these items by someone with the Ability Enhancer and Maximize feats.
** If we seduce a Fiend of Corruption, we should be able to reap the benefit of their +3 untyped bonus daily.
*** Our artificer cohort, with the Extra Rings feat and maximum bonus infusions through some optimization, will have 12 4th level infusions available in a day. We will wear 12 items that grant a +6 enhancement to charisma and, prior to truly challenging performances, we will have the cohort use Item Alteration on each of them to various types of bonuses. Item Alteration reads:
You alter an item that provides a certain type of bonus so that it provides a different type of bonus to the same value or roll. For example, you could change a ring of protection +1 so that it provided a natural armor bonus to Armor Class instead of a deflection bonus, or you could change a cloak of resistance so that it provided a circumstance bonus on saves instead of a resistance bonus. You cannot use this infusion to change an item so that it provides a sacred or profane bonus, nor can you change an item that already does so to make it provide a different kind of bonus. You also cannot make an item provide a dodge bonus to Armor Class.
The only strict limitations placed on it are that it applies to the same value (in this case, charisma), that it cannot mesh with sacred or profane bonuses, and that it cannot make an item provide a dodge bonus [I]to Armor Class. Therefore, we can make it apply to all sorts of silly things like: Armor Bonuses, Circumstance Bonuses, Competence Bonuses, Deflection Bonuses, Dodge Bonuses, Insight Bonuses, Luck Bonuses, Racial Bonuses, Natural Armor Bonuses, Resistance Bonuses, Shield Bonuses, and Size Bonuses to charisma.
At this point, our Suggestion DC is 87. For reference, Loki is a Greater Deity with 16 Divine Ranks and he has a will save of 56, so can only pass a save as high as 86. Without calculating any feats or class levels, he is already unable to pass this save without rolling a critical success. Granted, that's using a level of Dragon Devotee to boost charisma; to be fair, however, we will get at least a bonus of 2 from class levels if we were to take as few class levels in bard as possible by taking a one-level dip in Heartfire Fanner (with bloodline levels) and then never taking another level in bard again.
So now we can become a Greater Deity -- but that 87 is a far cry from the 115 we need to take on any deity. To do that, we will need a specific build.
Fochulan Lyrist requires you to speak Druidic and to have the evasion ability. The latter can be replicated without class levels by getting a ring of evasion in the case of the latter (WBL available by level 8; the former can be replicated by fascinating a Druid and using Suggestion immediately prior to level-up such that they teach Druidic as we expend our skill-points to level-up. Subsequently, we must kill him to keep the secret since by fluff I think that would bring down a lot of ire from high-level Druids. You can also get the Negotiator feat as a "free" bonus feat by doing some government work for a Guildmaster, but that is subject to GM fiat.
1. Bard (Skill Focus: Perform)
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Druid
3. Rogue (Negotiator)
4. Rogue
5. Heartfire Fanner (Druid spells qualify us for the PrC, but we add to Bard's spellcasting)
6. Fochulan Lyrist (Leadership)
7. Evangelist
8. Dragon Devotee
Now, abusing the retraining rules, we train our level in Druid and our two levels in Rogue into levels of bard. We take the Eberron Bard ACF at level 3 to swap Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart. We also train Skill Focus: Perform and Negotiator into Boost Spell-Like Ability and Supernatural Transformation, selecting Bardic Fascinate as the Spell-Like Ability to transform.
Heartfire Fanner, Fochulan Lyrist, and Evangelist are the only Bardic PrCs that I know of that say they add their levels to their bard levels to determine not just bardic music known or uses per day, but strength. As such, they are the only classes I know of that are eligible for bloodline shenanigans to boost Suggestion's DC.
1. Bard (Boost Spell-Like Ability [+2])
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Bard
3. Eberron Bard (Trading Countersong for Song of the Heart [+1 DC]) (Supernatural Transformation: Fascinate)
4. Bard
5. Heartfire Fanner
6. Fochulan Lyrist (Leadership)
7. Evangelist
8. Dragon Devotee
9. Bard (Words of Creation [+2 DC])
10. Spellscale Bard (Polymorph into a Spellscale prior to this level-up to take the Spellscale Bard ACF, then change back afterward) [+2 DC]
11. Bard
12. Bard (Spell-Like Ability Focus: Mass Suggestion [+2 DC])
13. Bard
14. Bard
15. Bard (Dragonsong [+2 DC])
16. Bard
17. Bard
18. Bard (Supernatural Transformation: Mass Suggestion)
19. Bard
20. Bard
21. Bard (Music of the Gods, using Inspire Greatness just prior to level-up to sneak in some extra ranks to Perform to qualify)
Our feats and class-features put us at 98. Finally, we can add 1/2 our bard's levels, with 3 bloodline levels tacked on where appropriate.
Bard 17 (17+3) [20]
Heartfire Fanner 1 (1+3) [24]
Fochulan Lyrist 1 (1+3) [28]
Evangelist 1 (1+3) [32]
Masterwork Lute +1 [33]
33/2 = 16.5, rounding up to 17, giving us a total DC of: 115. As far as I know, this is the highest that one can pump the DC of Suggestion which, in a neat bit of symmetry, is exactly as high as it needs to be. Of course, this is only as optimized as it needs to be in order to take on the highest will save in the game. If we move our goalposts from being able to take on any deity and take their divine ranks and instead focus on specifically attaining Divine Rank 20 (the highest divine rank I am aware of), we open up more options.
Flying Close to the Sun
The only deity that has Divine Rank 20 in the game is Taiia, a sun god whose will save is 60 -- almost as low as Loki's! To suggest her, we will need to set the DC at 91. So long as we take our three bloodline levels and still build something resembling a bard, it will be very difficult not to succeed here.
1. Bard (Deceptive Spell)
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Bard
3. Eberron Bard (Song of the Heart) (Supernatural Transformation: Fascinate)
4. Bard
5. Bard
6. Bard (Leadership)
7. Bard
8. Bard
9. Bard (Supernatural Transformation: Suggestion)
10. Sublime Chord
11. Ur Priest
12. Fochulan Lyrist (Melodic Casting) (Skill Trick: Swift Concentration)
13. Fochulan Lyrist
14. Fochulan Lyrist
15. Fochulan Lyrist (Disguise Spell)
16. Fochulan Lyrist
17. Fochulan Lyrist
18. Fochulan Lyrist (Subsonics)
19. Fochulan Lyrist
20. Fochulan Lyrist
21. Heartfire Fanner (Music of the Gods)
This build leaves us with a Suggestion DC of 99 at level 21, which is more than enough to fell any deity. We also gain 9th level arcane and divine spells at level 19, just two levels behind a wizard, which is a strong plus.
The breathing room with feats has allowed a useful combination: using Swift Concentration to make maintaining Fascination a swift action, Melodic Casting allows us to cast spells while holding a target fascinated and Disguise Spell stops the Fascination from being broken, allowing us a cheap shot at anyone we fascinate. If we choose not to fascinate someone for some reason, we can use Disguise Spell and Deceptive Spell to cast spells without taking credit for them as well with no check.
Finally, we've made room for the ever-important Subsonics; no longer must the target be able to hear us in order for them to be fascinated (making zones of silence and deafness a nonissue). Joyful Noise can help us then use Suggestion on otherwise deafened targets. If the DM won't allow that Subsonics overcomes deafness, replace it with Craft Contingent Spell for more fun-times. Tongues should let us speak with any sentient creature for Suggestion. Speak with Plants should let us speak with... well.. plants. Speak with Animals should help as well. Dealing with a *mindless* undead, if we have to use suggestion for some reason, may be as simple as casting Awaken Undead while you are fascinating them. The most difficult creature to deal with is a mindless construct without a language. You can fascinate it and cast any spontaneously known spell to deal with it, though, so it's a fair compromise.
Half-Giant [race]
Primordial [template]
Saint [template]
Magic Blooded [template]
Unseeley Fey [template]
1. Bard (Sacred Vow)
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Bard
3. Eberron Bard (Song of the Heart) (Supernatural Transformation: Fascinate)
4. Bard
5. Bard
6. Bard (Leadership)
7. Bard
8. Bard
9. Bard (Vow of Nonviolence)
10. Bard
11. Bard
12. Bard (Subsonics)
13. Bard
14. Bard
15. Bard (Vow of Peace)
16. Bard
17. Bard
18. Bard (Supernatural Transformation: Suggestion)
19. Bard
20. Bard
21. Epic Bard (Music of the Gods)
This build is geared towards those who want a simpler style of play with less multi-classing munchkinnery. You generically only have to worry about Bard spells and Bard class-features, your class features are supernatural and still have a high DC (Suggestion is at 100), Saint grants you free Tongues, and Subsonics significantly reduces the instances where your abilities are not useful. You also get a fun high-save aura to back off sneaker or tanky melee folks who otherwise might try to get in a surprise round without really getting to know you first.
And finally...
Kobold [race]
Magic Blooded [template]
Unseeley Fey [template]
Phrenic [template]
1. Bard (Dragonwrought)
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Bard
3. Eberron Bard (Song of the Heart) (Supernatural Transformation: Fascinate)
4. Bard
5. Bard
6. Spellscale Bard (Leadership)
7. Heartfire Fanner
8. Bard
9. Bard (Supernatural Transformation: Suggestion)
10. Bard
11. Bard
12. Fochulan Lyrist (Music of the Gods)
We end up with a DC of 91 here (allowing for the loss in class levels, charisma bonus by leveling, and lower cohort level), which is enough to overcome the highest divine rank of deity. In this build, we sample another cheesy TO technique. Technically, any dragon who is at least "old" qualifies to take epic feats and sovereign archetypes.
With that in mind, by level 12 our normal maximum skill rank would be 15. Bloodlines raise this cap to 18. If we take Words of Creation and then retrain it into another feat afterward, we can inspire greatness in ourselves prior to level-up (or pay a psionic character to use Psychic Reformation on us) to gain 6 temporary hitdie, raising our cap to 24. That still leaves us 6 short; to get those last skill points (or even all of them, dodging the use of Inspire Greatness entirely), we can polymorph into a Dusk Giant and start to consume any number of small mindless creatures (no complains on opening this can of worms :smallwink: ) to gain temporary HD.
The only issue that may arise here is the WBL, but I think we're all aware of the many ways to bust WBL in 3.5. There is even a prestige class that requires you to have more wealth than is typical for your level. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to bust a Dragonwrought Kobold that focuses on abusing epic spellcasting or the like, but getting 20 divine ranks seems like a pretty decent prize at level 12 compared to everything but PunPun.
In fact, if we ignore WBL to perform all these tricks, we could probably access Music of the Gods even sooner -- taking two bonus feats from flaws at level one, getting a bonus feat like Iron Will from a magical location, going to level 6, Polymorphing into a Dusk Giant for temporary HD and Psychic Reformation-ing to hit 30 skill ranks, and then Dark Chaos shuffling the level 6 feat into Music of the Gods, Iron Will into Leadership, and the two bonus feats into Supernatural Transformation. The loss of Item Alteration uses and the loss of class levels would hit the Suggestion DC pretty hard. Without infinite or NI tricks, I'm not sure if there is a way to pump the DC back up to the requisite 91 without hoping the DM allows us to hire a mid-to-high level artificer to follow us around as if it were a cohort, which seems like a stretch. Even going down to level 9 would disqualify the artificer cohort from using Item Alteration, so for now we'll rest at the level 12 mark.
In Conclusion...
It seems like bards can come to the TO party just as well as wizards, once things tick over to level 12; in the meantime, they get all the bardic shenanigans and fun-stuff at low levels of play. If anyone has any ideas on how to improve these builds, please feel free to send me a PM. Let's rock on and keep the music alive. :)
https://www.youthmusictheatreuk.org/sites/default/files/styles/490x370/public/Soul%20Music.jpg?itok=fWPKcpeV
This build is based around the Music of the Gods feat, which reads:
[Epic]
You can use your bardic music to influence creatures immune to mind-affecting effects.
Prerequisite
Perform 30 ranks, CHA 25, bardic music class feature,
Benefit
Your bardic music can affect even those normally immune to mind-affecting effects. However, such creatures gain a +10 bonus on their Will saves to resist such effects.
We all know that Dragonfire Inspiration is a popular way to play bards at high-levels, but Music of the Gods does more than let you buff your Mind Blanked allies. The ability to ignore immunities is difficult to come by, so this is a unique strength bards have available to them. Of course, the feat gives a not-insignficant bonus to the will save of the target as well as bypassing their immunity; the question then becomes: how high must the save must be to be useful?
The highest will saves I've found in the wild, as it were, have been for deities from Deities and Demigods. Certainly deities will visit a bard achieving unnaturally high performance checks; the perform skill's description details that extraplanar beings will begin paying attention to you with a DC 30 check, let alone once they start getting over 100. If you can make your career as an adventurer crucial to the future moves of dragons in the Xorvintaal game (namely Chorranathau or Morlicantha), deities won't even be warned about your plans via their portfolio sense, leaving you with the perfect lure. Now, the highest will save that I found in Deities and Demigods belonged to Corellon Larethian at a whopping 84. Music of the Gods adds ten to that, bringing it up to 94, and then he maximizes his save roll. The text for Always Maximize Roll reads:
Always Maximize Roll: Greater deities (rank 16–20) automatically
get the best result possible on any check, saving throw, attack
roll, or damage roll. Calculate success, failure, or other effects
accordingly. For instance, when a greater deity makes an attack
roll, assume you rolled a 20 and calculate success or failure from
there. You should roll the d20 anyway and use that roll to check for
a threat of a critical hit.
This quality means that greater deities never need the Maximize
Spell feat, because their spells have maximum effect already
The ability grants the "best possible result" on many types of rolls, for while you must calculate success, failure, or other effects. This language is vague and doesn't confirm whether or not any given item on that list can be failed, or if just one can. We know skillchecks can be failed, at least, but we need to read more to know what is meant for other items.
We are given a concrete example: an attack roll where we assume the deity rolled a 20 and calculate success or failure from there. Now, normally rolling a 20 is an automatic success, but here we are told that such an attack roll may result in failure; a distinction is being made between this ability and actually rolling a numerical 20 on a d20. It was suggested to me in a separate thread that perhaps you are meant to calculate success or failure, assuming that the chance of failure is zero percent, but it seems like calculating success or failure is a very strange way to phrase it in this reading since it is an automatic success, not something you need to add or subtract figures for.
The paragraph then concludes by saying we should roll a d20 anyway to check for a threat of a critical hit, not to confirm a critical hit already threatened. I am unaware of any weapon or circumstance where a natural 20 doesn't threaten a critical hit, even if the creature is unable to confirm it do to the target's high AC or otherwise being immune to critical hits for some reason. To me, this suggests that the book is conflating rolling a critical threat with the aspect of automatically hitting on a natural 20 since you then physically roll the die. It was suggested to me that it sounds odd to roll a d20 to check for a critical threat with an expanded critical range if that critical threat (let's say a 17) would not even hit the target, but it seems stranger to me that the deity wouldn't automatically threaten a critical hit without rolling if we assume a maximized "assumed 20" roll is the same as a natural 20.
Based on all this, I would conclude that the way a greater deity's saves function, following the precedent set by attack rolls, would be to add 20 to their base save and have them automatically pass any save equal to or less that increased save. While it is not explicitly asked for, I would then think that the deity should roll a d20 to check for a critical success on their save.
Therefore, the save we need to impose on these abilities to succeed against any deity 19/20 times would be a 115. Upon passing that, any deity as written can be fascinated and suggested -- in fact, any seven deities could be suggested, as per Mass Suggestion. This could result in any sort of world-changing effect one could imagine or, perhaps more ambitiously, attaining some or all of these captive deities divine ranks via Alter Reality if you can phrase the suggestion well enough. However, the question remains: can it be done?
Number-Crunching
It seems best to focus on the Suggestion DC since it will necessarily be more difficult to pump than the Fascinate DC. The formula for Suggestions' DC is 10 + Charisma Bonus + 1/2 Bard's levels.
We want the build to culminate at level 21, the earliest we can get Music of the Gods by RAW. Therefore, I've limited this strategy to LA+3. The highest racial bonus to charisma that I've found is:
Death Touched [race]
Phrenic [template]
Magic Blooded [template]
Unseeley Fey [tempalte]
This adds a cumulative 12 charisma to the bard. An alternative is to drop the Phrenic template and Death Touched race (losing 8 charisma) in favor of:
Half-Giant [race]
Primordial [template]
Saint or Draconic [template]
Magic Blooded [template]
Unseeley Fey [template]
This route with the Draconic template ends up yielding 10 charisma and +1 to SLAs which is effectively equivalent to the Death Touches route, but without the benefit of Phrenic powers. The route with the Saint template yields a cumulative 12 charisma and +2 to SLAs, but has supremely steep RP requirements and a 3-tier feat tax. Each feat sacrificed represents -2 to SLAs down the road, but one of the feats you may take (Vow of Nonviolence) grants +2 to SLAs, meaning that this route ultimately nets 12 charisma and no bonus to SLAs -- once again, equivalent to the Death Touched race.
In the adventure, we also max out his or her age to buff the bard's mental stats. Perhaps for some PO in this TO, we will have to negate those penalties through a method such as befriending a druid to reincarnate the bard multiple times until he gets these templates again, or wishing away the penalties, or using some sort of true mind switch shenanigans to end up in a younger body with these templates and this race. Still, this ultimately grants us a +3 to charisma so long as we do it before level 21.
Regardless, with an 18 in charisma, this leaves us with 33 in charisma at level 0. We also begin with a major fey bloodline, though of course no levels in it since the adventure has not yet begun.
Base 18 (18)
Age 3 (21)
Major Fey Bloodline 1 (22)
Level-Ups 5 (27)
Wishes 5 (32)
Mertoran Leaf 2 (34) [alchemic]
Command item 4 (38) [competence]
Snowsong 4 (52) [morale]
Transfusion 5 (67) *
Righteous Aura 4 (62) [righteous] *
Nixie's Grace w/ Ability Enhancer 10 (48) [enhancement] *
Devil's Ego w/ Ability Enhancer 6 (58) [profane] *
Visage of the Deity, Greater w/ Ability Enhancer 6 (73) *
Worm of Minauros 1 (74)
Break a Pact Insidious 1 (75)
Fiend of Corruption 3 (78) **
Artificer Infusions 72 (150) [various] ***
Magic-Blooded Template 2 (152) [racial]
Unseeley Fey Template 2 (154) [racial]
Phrenic Template 4 (158) [racial]
Death-Touched 4 (162) [racial]
Dragon Devotee 2 (164)
* We have a staff crafted with these items by someone with the Ability Enhancer and Maximize feats.
** If we seduce a Fiend of Corruption, we should be able to reap the benefit of their +3 untyped bonus daily.
*** Our artificer cohort, with the Extra Rings feat and maximum bonus infusions through some optimization, will have 12 4th level infusions available in a day. We will wear 12 items that grant a +6 enhancement to charisma and, prior to truly challenging performances, we will have the cohort use Item Alteration on each of them to various types of bonuses. Item Alteration reads:
You alter an item that provides a certain type of bonus so that it provides a different type of bonus to the same value or roll. For example, you could change a ring of protection +1 so that it provided a natural armor bonus to Armor Class instead of a deflection bonus, or you could change a cloak of resistance so that it provided a circumstance bonus on saves instead of a resistance bonus. You cannot use this infusion to change an item so that it provides a sacred or profane bonus, nor can you change an item that already does so to make it provide a different kind of bonus. You also cannot make an item provide a dodge bonus to Armor Class.
The only strict limitations placed on it are that it applies to the same value (in this case, charisma), that it cannot mesh with sacred or profane bonuses, and that it cannot make an item provide a dodge bonus [I]to Armor Class. Therefore, we can make it apply to all sorts of silly things like: Armor Bonuses, Circumstance Bonuses, Competence Bonuses, Deflection Bonuses, Dodge Bonuses, Insight Bonuses, Luck Bonuses, Racial Bonuses, Natural Armor Bonuses, Resistance Bonuses, Shield Bonuses, and Size Bonuses to charisma.
At this point, our Suggestion DC is 87. For reference, Loki is a Greater Deity with 16 Divine Ranks and he has a will save of 56, so can only pass a save as high as 86. Without calculating any feats or class levels, he is already unable to pass this save without rolling a critical success. Granted, that's using a level of Dragon Devotee to boost charisma; to be fair, however, we will get at least a bonus of 2 from class levels if we were to take as few class levels in bard as possible by taking a one-level dip in Heartfire Fanner (with bloodline levels) and then never taking another level in bard again.
So now we can become a Greater Deity -- but that 87 is a far cry from the 115 we need to take on any deity. To do that, we will need a specific build.
Fochulan Lyrist requires you to speak Druidic and to have the evasion ability. The latter can be replicated without class levels by getting a ring of evasion in the case of the latter (WBL available by level 8; the former can be replicated by fascinating a Druid and using Suggestion immediately prior to level-up such that they teach Druidic as we expend our skill-points to level-up. Subsequently, we must kill him to keep the secret since by fluff I think that would bring down a lot of ire from high-level Druids. You can also get the Negotiator feat as a "free" bonus feat by doing some government work for a Guildmaster, but that is subject to GM fiat.
1. Bard (Skill Focus: Perform)
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Druid
3. Rogue (Negotiator)
4. Rogue
5. Heartfire Fanner (Druid spells qualify us for the PrC, but we add to Bard's spellcasting)
6. Fochulan Lyrist (Leadership)
7. Evangelist
8. Dragon Devotee
Now, abusing the retraining rules, we train our level in Druid and our two levels in Rogue into levels of bard. We take the Eberron Bard ACF at level 3 to swap Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart. We also train Skill Focus: Perform and Negotiator into Boost Spell-Like Ability and Supernatural Transformation, selecting Bardic Fascinate as the Spell-Like Ability to transform.
Heartfire Fanner, Fochulan Lyrist, and Evangelist are the only Bardic PrCs that I know of that say they add their levels to their bard levels to determine not just bardic music known or uses per day, but strength. As such, they are the only classes I know of that are eligible for bloodline shenanigans to boost Suggestion's DC.
1. Bard (Boost Spell-Like Ability [+2])
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Bard
3. Eberron Bard (Trading Countersong for Song of the Heart [+1 DC]) (Supernatural Transformation: Fascinate)
4. Bard
5. Heartfire Fanner
6. Fochulan Lyrist (Leadership)
7. Evangelist
8. Dragon Devotee
9. Bard (Words of Creation [+2 DC])
10. Spellscale Bard (Polymorph into a Spellscale prior to this level-up to take the Spellscale Bard ACF, then change back afterward) [+2 DC]
11. Bard
12. Bard (Spell-Like Ability Focus: Mass Suggestion [+2 DC])
13. Bard
14. Bard
15. Bard (Dragonsong [+2 DC])
16. Bard
17. Bard
18. Bard (Supernatural Transformation: Mass Suggestion)
19. Bard
20. Bard
21. Bard (Music of the Gods, using Inspire Greatness just prior to level-up to sneak in some extra ranks to Perform to qualify)
Our feats and class-features put us at 98. Finally, we can add 1/2 our bard's levels, with 3 bloodline levels tacked on where appropriate.
Bard 17 (17+3) [20]
Heartfire Fanner 1 (1+3) [24]
Fochulan Lyrist 1 (1+3) [28]
Evangelist 1 (1+3) [32]
Masterwork Lute +1 [33]
33/2 = 16.5, rounding up to 17, giving us a total DC of: 115. As far as I know, this is the highest that one can pump the DC of Suggestion which, in a neat bit of symmetry, is exactly as high as it needs to be. Of course, this is only as optimized as it needs to be in order to take on the highest will save in the game. If we move our goalposts from being able to take on any deity and take their divine ranks and instead focus on specifically attaining Divine Rank 20 (the highest divine rank I am aware of), we open up more options.
Flying Close to the Sun
The only deity that has Divine Rank 20 in the game is Taiia, a sun god whose will save is 60 -- almost as low as Loki's! To suggest her, we will need to set the DC at 91. So long as we take our three bloodline levels and still build something resembling a bard, it will be very difficult not to succeed here.
1. Bard (Deceptive Spell)
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Bard
3. Eberron Bard (Song of the Heart) (Supernatural Transformation: Fascinate)
4. Bard
5. Bard
6. Bard (Leadership)
7. Bard
8. Bard
9. Bard (Supernatural Transformation: Suggestion)
10. Sublime Chord
11. Ur Priest
12. Fochulan Lyrist (Melodic Casting) (Skill Trick: Swift Concentration)
13. Fochulan Lyrist
14. Fochulan Lyrist
15. Fochulan Lyrist (Disguise Spell)
16. Fochulan Lyrist
17. Fochulan Lyrist
18. Fochulan Lyrist (Subsonics)
19. Fochulan Lyrist
20. Fochulan Lyrist
21. Heartfire Fanner (Music of the Gods)
This build leaves us with a Suggestion DC of 99 at level 21, which is more than enough to fell any deity. We also gain 9th level arcane and divine spells at level 19, just two levels behind a wizard, which is a strong plus.
The breathing room with feats has allowed a useful combination: using Swift Concentration to make maintaining Fascination a swift action, Melodic Casting allows us to cast spells while holding a target fascinated and Disguise Spell stops the Fascination from being broken, allowing us a cheap shot at anyone we fascinate. If we choose not to fascinate someone for some reason, we can use Disguise Spell and Deceptive Spell to cast spells without taking credit for them as well with no check.
Finally, we've made room for the ever-important Subsonics; no longer must the target be able to hear us in order for them to be fascinated (making zones of silence and deafness a nonissue). Joyful Noise can help us then use Suggestion on otherwise deafened targets. If the DM won't allow that Subsonics overcomes deafness, replace it with Craft Contingent Spell for more fun-times. Tongues should let us speak with any sentient creature for Suggestion. Speak with Plants should let us speak with... well.. plants. Speak with Animals should help as well. Dealing with a *mindless* undead, if we have to use suggestion for some reason, may be as simple as casting Awaken Undead while you are fascinating them. The most difficult creature to deal with is a mindless construct without a language. You can fascinate it and cast any spontaneously known spell to deal with it, though, so it's a fair compromise.
Half-Giant [race]
Primordial [template]
Saint [template]
Magic Blooded [template]
Unseeley Fey [template]
1. Bard (Sacred Vow)
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Bard
3. Eberron Bard (Song of the Heart) (Supernatural Transformation: Fascinate)
4. Bard
5. Bard
6. Bard (Leadership)
7. Bard
8. Bard
9. Bard (Vow of Nonviolence)
10. Bard
11. Bard
12. Bard (Subsonics)
13. Bard
14. Bard
15. Bard (Vow of Peace)
16. Bard
17. Bard
18. Bard (Supernatural Transformation: Suggestion)
19. Bard
20. Bard
21. Epic Bard (Music of the Gods)
This build is geared towards those who want a simpler style of play with less multi-classing munchkinnery. You generically only have to worry about Bard spells and Bard class-features, your class features are supernatural and still have a high DC (Suggestion is at 100), Saint grants you free Tongues, and Subsonics significantly reduces the instances where your abilities are not useful. You also get a fun high-save aura to back off sneaker or tanky melee folks who otherwise might try to get in a surprise round without really getting to know you first.
And finally...
Kobold [race]
Magic Blooded [template]
Unseeley Fey [template]
Phrenic [template]
1. Bard (Dragonwrought)
(3 Bloodline Levels)
2. Bard
3. Eberron Bard (Song of the Heart) (Supernatural Transformation: Fascinate)
4. Bard
5. Bard
6. Spellscale Bard (Leadership)
7. Heartfire Fanner
8. Bard
9. Bard (Supernatural Transformation: Suggestion)
10. Bard
11. Bard
12. Fochulan Lyrist (Music of the Gods)
We end up with a DC of 91 here (allowing for the loss in class levels, charisma bonus by leveling, and lower cohort level), which is enough to overcome the highest divine rank of deity. In this build, we sample another cheesy TO technique. Technically, any dragon who is at least "old" qualifies to take epic feats and sovereign archetypes.
With that in mind, by level 12 our normal maximum skill rank would be 15. Bloodlines raise this cap to 18. If we take Words of Creation and then retrain it into another feat afterward, we can inspire greatness in ourselves prior to level-up (or pay a psionic character to use Psychic Reformation on us) to gain 6 temporary hitdie, raising our cap to 24. That still leaves us 6 short; to get those last skill points (or even all of them, dodging the use of Inspire Greatness entirely), we can polymorph into a Dusk Giant and start to consume any number of small mindless creatures (no complains on opening this can of worms :smallwink: ) to gain temporary HD.
The only issue that may arise here is the WBL, but I think we're all aware of the many ways to bust WBL in 3.5. There is even a prestige class that requires you to have more wealth than is typical for your level. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to bust a Dragonwrought Kobold that focuses on abusing epic spellcasting or the like, but getting 20 divine ranks seems like a pretty decent prize at level 12 compared to everything but PunPun.
In fact, if we ignore WBL to perform all these tricks, we could probably access Music of the Gods even sooner -- taking two bonus feats from flaws at level one, getting a bonus feat like Iron Will from a magical location, going to level 6, Polymorphing into a Dusk Giant for temporary HD and Psychic Reformation-ing to hit 30 skill ranks, and then Dark Chaos shuffling the level 6 feat into Music of the Gods, Iron Will into Leadership, and the two bonus feats into Supernatural Transformation. The loss of Item Alteration uses and the loss of class levels would hit the Suggestion DC pretty hard. Without infinite or NI tricks, I'm not sure if there is a way to pump the DC back up to the requisite 91 without hoping the DM allows us to hire a mid-to-high level artificer to follow us around as if it were a cohort, which seems like a stretch. Even going down to level 9 would disqualify the artificer cohort from using Item Alteration, so for now we'll rest at the level 12 mark.
In Conclusion...
It seems like bards can come to the TO party just as well as wizards, once things tick over to level 12; in the meantime, they get all the bardic shenanigans and fun-stuff at low levels of play. If anyone has any ideas on how to improve these builds, please feel free to send me a PM. Let's rock on and keep the music alive. :)
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