PDA

View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Stat Bandaid: SAD is BAD



ShiningStarling
2016-12-27, 06:12 PM
So I was thinking about stats, and how sometimes things just... aren't balanced sure, but also sort of don't make sense. For the physical stats, I think just a Strength requirement on weapons would be enough to reduce the Dex SADers, but the mental stats are where casters live, and therefore where our biggest problems lay.

What I propose is simple. Spontaneous casters use Wisdom, prepared casters use Intelligence, but ALL casters use Charisma for bonus spells. The fluff reason for this would be something like... you don't just know how to have more spells, and you aren't just so wise that your God gives them to you or whatever. What spells you get is based on class and Int or Wis, but how many is between you and The Weave, and how much magic juice you can force out of it with nothing but your determination to do so, using the reasoning that charisma is for magical determination as it is the stat for Use Magic Device.

Thoughts?

Ursus Spelaeus
2016-12-29, 05:48 AM
Well, look at Constitution. Nobody can dump Constitution. Everybody needs hit points, everybody needs Fortitude, and casters need the Constitution score. And it's real hard to "X/Y" CON out of the picture, too.

Nobody can really dump Intelligence either. Everybody needs at least a 10 in that, or they won't get any skill points.

Dexterity could be dumped, but better not to (even for casters) at least for the sake of initiative.

When people dump abilities, they usually dump Strength, Wisdom, and Charisma.
So, we should figure out how to make those more valuable for everybody.

If I may?

I was thinking of instituting an Attunement limit rule tied to Charisma (since that's so often a dump stat, and because Charisma is tied to the UMD skill).
Attunement is meant to patch the Christmas-tree effect.
The idea is that you can only benefit from magic items (including armor and weapons) by 'attuning' to them with a short ceremony at the end of each rest. But, you can only attune a limited number of magic items at a time as determined by your Attunement limit (determined by your level and Charisma modifier.)
The effects of this are that players have to think a lot more carefully about what magic items they can equip, and that nobody can afford to dump Charisma.


Now, as for Strength requirements for weapons, I am not sure that this will do the job since not everybody needs weapons. This only really nerfs fighters without affecting wizards at all. If wands had a Strength requirement that would be a different story.

*edit*

Now, here's an idea. If Strength is tied to athletics (it is used for the Jump, Climb, and Swim skills, afterall) then perhaps we might consider a houserule that gives everybody +[STR x5] feet in movement rate.
Say you have three humans, all in light armor, with Strength modifiers of +3, +0, and -2. That would give them movement rates of 45 feet, 30 feet, and 20 feet respectively. Even wizards need to walk sometimes.

ShiningStarling
2016-12-30, 12:42 AM
Well, look at Constitution. Nobody can dump Constitution. Everybody needs hit points, everybody needs Fortitude, and casters need the Constitution score. And it's real hard to "X/Y" CON out of the picture, too.Well, sort of, but I think at least half the front liners I've ever played with have done well with average Con.


Nobody can really dump Intelligence either. Everybody needs at least a 10 in that, or they won't get any skill points. Intelligence is an easy dump for the fighters and barbarians of the world, 10 is still a dump stat number.


Dexterity could be dumped, but better not to (even for casters) at least for the sake of initiative. ...and AC and Reflex and touch attacks, and heavy requirements for TWF. Dex is easily the best physical stat for the average player who isn't power-attacking, and some of them too.


When people dump abilities, they usually dump Strength, Wisdom, and Charisma.
So, we should figure out how to make those more valuable for everybody. I would say Str Int and Cha, lot of people are paranoid about will saves.


I was thinking of instituting an Attunement limit rule tied to Charisma (since that's so often a dump stat, and because Charisma is tied to the UMD skill).
Attunement is meant to patch the Christmas-tree effect.
The idea is that you can only benefit from magic items (including armor and weapons) by 'attuning' to them with a short ceremony at the end of each rest. But, you can only attune a limited number of magic items at a time as determined by your Attunement limit (determined by your level and Charisma modifier.)
The effects of this are that players have to think a lot more carefully about what magic items they can equip, and that nobody can afford to dump Charisma.I hate attunement, and its mostly a non-caster nerf. scaling off Cha is kinda better than 5th ed.'s static 3, but that would just encourage the Charisma-stacking homebrew that is already all over the place. Nerfs that hit fighters is never the answer in my opinion.


Now, as for Strength requirements for weapons, I am not sure that this will do the job since not everybody needs weapons. This only really nerfs fighters without affecting wizards at all. If wands had a Strength requirement that would be a different story.It would only affect Dex fighters, but honestly that was more a passing thought, the real suggestion was charisma for bonus spells, and what I wanted feedback on.


Now, here's an idea. If Strength is tied to athletics (it is used for the Jump, Climb, and Swim skills, afterall) then perhaps we might consider a houserule that gives everybody +[STR x5] feet in movement rate.
Say you have three humans, all in light armor, with Strength modifiers of +3, +0, and -2. That would give them movement rates of 45 feet, 30 feet, and 20 feet respectively. Even wizards need to walk sometimes.I like it, but I also don't. Shrug

CowardlyPaladin
2016-12-30, 01:13 AM
I actually came up with a system of adding more stats here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510293-Rethinking-D-amp-D-New-Stats) which I think successfully nerfs casters quite well

ShiningStarling
2016-12-30, 01:51 AM
I actually came up with a system of adding more stats here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510293-Rethinking-D-amp-D-New-Stats) which I think successfully nerfs casters quite well

When it comes to trying to modify base level things about the game, I prefer to keep the changes as simple as possible, basically so you can explain it in one sentence. Your system seems fine, but it no longer looks a lot like D&D, and would take a lot of recategorization and retro-fitting to work