Girl Genius XXI: Cancel the Jugglers

[Porthos]

It is a world ruled by Mad Science! Things happen. Usually, they happen to other people. This is entertainment. That's when the front door gets blown in- And you belatedly realize that, once again, you are doomed to be the entertainment in another exciting installment of: GIRL GENIUS (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071228)!

Many elegant, finely-crafted, and vintage links follow:

Links to Previous Threads
Girl Genius! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4818) (thread)
Girl Genius II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80718)
Girl Genius III: Nize Thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92541)
Girl Genius IV: Because SCIENCE! is my mistress (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102230)
Girl Genius V: Madre de Diodes! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112305)
Girl Genius VI: Der Pestle in Der Kestle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128538)
Girl Genius VII: Get on the Slab, I Want to Get to Work! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143909)
Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159600)
Girl Genius IX: The Unstoppable Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173582)
Girl Genius X: The Othar Shoe Drops (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189632)
Girl Genius XI: Ding Dong, the Baron's Dead! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207223)
Girl Genius XII: For Doom The Bell Tolls (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227697)
Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245508)
Girl Genius XIV: A Lightning Arc in All But Speed! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266978)
Girl Genius XV: The Weasel, the Spark, and the Wardrobe (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287759)
Girl Genius XVI: The Wrath of Klaus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?322309)
Girl Genius XVII: And Then He Had Pie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?365866)
Girl Genius XVIII: Invisible Hand of the Legendary Smoke Knights (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412897)
Girl Genius XIX: Worth a Third of Your Grade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458545)
Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488904)

Comic Links
Link to current comic (http://girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php) and link to the beginning of the strip. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104) (Updates MWF, usually after Midnight [Eastern Time])
The Continuing Adventures of Othar Tryggvassen, Gentleman Adventurer! (http://twitter.com/Othar) (back on hiatus, may update in the future)
A compilation (and much easier to read if you're just catching up) of the first three chapters can be found here at the GG website (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/fun/twitter_othar_01.php).
And if one goes to snapbird.org (http://snapbird.org/) and types in "Othar" in the 'Who?' field, all of Othar's adventures can be read on one page (albiet in reverse order of posting - Now must have a Twitter account to use).
Mirror of the comic found on LiveJournal (http://girlgeniuscomic.livejournal.com/) (Sometimes will update before the main page is updated, so beware of spoilers)
Mirror of the comic found on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Girl-Genius-Webcomic/28371352860?ref=nf) (Will occasionally have Girl Genius related news)
And one can find mirrors of Girl Genius on deviantArt as well (http://girlgeniuscomic.deviantart.com/). (Occasionally Kaja will put up or link to interesting GG related art that is found on dA)

Reference Links
Wiki Project devoted to to Girl Genius (http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/The_Department_of_Almost_Certainly_True_History)
Wikipedia entry on Girl Genius. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_Genius)
TV Tropes page on Girl Genius. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GirlGenius)
The Secret Blueprints (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4272360&postcount=1478) (NOTE: Contains background information on the GG Universe, so it should probably be read after "catching up" to the newest comic, as it contains many spoilers.)

Social Media and News Links
Phil Foglio's new Wordpress art, news, and blogging website. (http://girlgeniusadventures.com/)
Kaja Foglio's LJ Page (http://kajafoglio.livejournal.com/) and Studio Foglio News LJ Page (http://studiofoglio.livejournal.com/) (Not currently being updated)
Kaja & Phil's Personal Facebook Page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kaja-Phil-Foglio/196305144555) (Not currently being updated)
A twitter account that basically is a catch-all feed for Girl Genius related news. (http://twitter.com/girlgenius)
Cheyenne Wright's Twitter (http://twitter.com/CheyenneWright) and LiveJournal Accounts (http://cheyennewright.livejournal.com/) (The colorist's twitter and LJ pages)
And finally,
Phil's old LJ page. (http://philfoglio.livejournal.com/) (Occasionally contains crossposts from the Wordpress website)

====

Q: What is this "Sneaky Gate" y'alls go on about?

Sneaky gate: Named from this hidden gate in comic (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071219), it has become a name for viewing new comics early. Remember, if you're going to discuss the new comic, put it in spoiler boxes until the release time (12am EST).

Sneaky Gate 101:

Right click the comic image.
Select view image or copy paste the image location into the address bar.
Modify the date to be the day you're trying to look at. (ex. 20120111 -> 20120113)
Go to the modified url.
Be disappointed when there's no early comic to read.
Alternately, enjoy the comic!

[Ellen]

Uh, oh, cancel the dancing nuns, too. Everyone's about to get wasped.

Or not. Because, Agatha. And the Master of Paris. And Tarvek. And maybe a few other people.

But, this is not looking really good.

[keybounce]

First: Who is Collette's father again? He's coming, and she knows that's wrong -- so is he already wasped?

Second: "Turn on your lanterns, and breath deeply". ... If these are slave engine lanterns, that would wasp the existing people -- not the target people. Perhaps it is "this device activates after a short period of time, so that the person handling it can safely prepare"? And, what if it's some sort of gas instead of a wasp?

Third: What's on the right side of this double page spread?
Where's the finely hand-crafted link?

[geoduck]

First: Who is Collette's father again? He's coming, and she knows that's wrong -- so is he already wasped?

The Master of Paris, who never ever attends parties.


Second: "Turn on your lanterns, and breath deeply". ... If these are slave engine lanterns, that would wasp the existing people -- not the target people. Perhaps it is "this device activates after a short period of time, so that the person handling it can safely prepare"? And, what if it's some sort of gas instead of a wasp?

I'm guessing it's some kind of mass-attack and the lanterns protect them from whatever-it-is. I'd guess gas, yes, and it's going to turn out that Tarvek is wearing that Plague Doctor costume and won't be affected.

[eee]

<bleep>, double spread page! We're not going to find out who the QotN is until Monday! If then!

[Rogar Demonblud]

Devious and Cruel are our Foglio Masters.

[Shining Wrath]

I will wager 2,000 quatloos that the person about to enter the room is *not* the Queen of the Dawn.

[geoduck]

I will wager 2,000 quatloos that the person about to enter the room is *not* the Queen of the Dawn.

So.. someone pretending to be her? A minion of hers? Because that's her symbol plastered all over the airship and personnel.

[Ellen]

I think the Master is coming because he realizes this will be the epicenter of the attack. My bet is the lanterns are about to release a swarm of the Other's mind-control wasps, and they want everyone to breathe them in. But, we'll see.

And, in the midst of this, we're about to have three storm kings, two royal houses, and a Heterodyne in a pear tree.

(sorry, had to say it)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Suddenly I'm wondering when Krosp is going to reappear with all those bears. They do seem to be about the only element missing from this situation.

[Rodin]

What we really need is Othar to yell:

SO! ALL THE VIPERS ARE IN RESIDENCE!!!

[HandofShadows]

Shouldn't Othar be traveling with Gil? :smallconfused: If he isn't, he has his own reason to head to Paris.

[eee]

Shouldn't Othar be traveling with Gil? :smallconfused: If he isn't, he has his own reason to head to Paris.

I would assume Othar is either under the strongest lock and key imprisonment Gil can devise; or, having already escaped that, is wandering around free and going to show up where his presence will cause the most chaos.

(Does he even remember Oslaka anymore?)

[eschmenk]

I will wager 2,000 quatloos that the person about to enter the room is *not* the Queen of the Dawn.

I'll take that. I would be surprised if the Queen of the Dawn isn't Zola or Lucrezia and the egos of both of them would make them want to be there. Assuming the people are about to be wasped and the wasps still don't work on sparks, someone will need to give the people orders using Lucrezia's voice to take out any sparks there, otherwise any sparks there (including Martellus) would have a chance to get away or respond somehow.


I think the Master is coming because he realizes this will be the epicenter of the attack. My bet is the lanterns are about to release a swarm of the Other's mind-control wasps, and they want everyone to breathe them in. But, we'll see.

I would break it down into two reasons. 1) Andronicus is heading there. 2) Since Andronicus is heading there and so many important people will be there, it may be the epicenter of the attack.


What we really need is Othar to yell:

SO! ALL THE VIPERS ARE IN RESIDENCE!!!

Yes, although Othar wouldn't realize it's a masquerade ball, so he'd go after the guests and ignore the Queen of the Dawn and her presumably wasped nuns. But it would be fun to watch him chase the guy dressed as Sam Starfall. :smallbiggrin:


I would assume Othar is either under the strongest lock and key imprisonment Gil can devise; or, having already escaped that, is wandering around free and going to show up where his presence will cause the most chaos.

(Does he even remember Oslaka anymore?)

This is the last we saw of Othar (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20160325). He might be leading an army for all we know. In this case, Gil was so upset at the Library (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20160401) that he might not have done anything about Othar.

No, Othar probably doesn't remember Oslaka. That was completely noncanonical. I think that at most Othar might think he remembers a weird dream featuring her.

[Lateral]

So... yeah, that's Zola, isn't it. Can't quite see her face, but with blonde hair who else would it be?

[Ellen]

Yeah, taunt us with the mystery of who the queen is. Then, when you do the big reveal, make sure we can't recognize her under her costume. No, we're not dying of curiosity here. Why would you think that?

*****

On an unrelated note, I was rereading the early chapters. When the Baron runs into Punch and Judy he realizes they were hiding from him, which doesn't make any sense to Klaus. Judy tells him "Barry came back."

At first, I thought that meant they were acting under orders from Barry (given before Klaus' return) to keep Agatha hidden. On rereading it, it sounded more like "You didn't think Barry would come back, but he did and told us everything.

At this point, I'm wondering if Barry got into a possible future, an alternate reality, or Skifander on a bad day and has got some wrong ideas about Klaus. After all, if he got into a future where wasped Klaus was claiming to have been an Evil Overlord all along (or something like that), he'd come back thinking he'd learned Klaus couldn't be trusted.

This seems to tie into Klaus' own mistake about Agatha. He'd learned enough to suspect Lucy was the Other. But, based on things like Bang's report on future-Agatha, he was making a lot of wrong conclusions about present-Agatha.

[anon62453]

So... yeah, that's Zola, isn't it. Can't quite see her face, but with blonde hair who else would it be?

Clankrezia with a wig & a skin job.

[geoduck]

On an unrelated note, I was rereading the early chapters. When the Baron runs into Punch and Judy he realizes they were hiding from him, which doesn't make any sense to Klaus. Judy tells him "Barry came back."

At first, I thought that meant they were acting under orders from Barry (given before Klaus' return) to keep Agatha hidden. On rereading it, it sounded more like "You didn't think Barry would come back, but he did and told us everything.

At this point, I'm wondering if Barry got into a possible future, an alternate reality, or Skifander on a bad day and has got some wrong ideas about Klaus. After all, if he got into a future where wasped Klaus was claiming to have been an Evil Overlord all along (or something like that), he'd come back thinking he'd learned Klaus couldn't be trusted.

For what it's worth, the GG print novelization expands this scene (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060324), and explicitly states that for some as-yet unknown reason Barry believed that Klaus was working for the Other, which is why he hid himself and Agatha.

And yes, I agree the QotD looks like Zola.

[Hurkyl]

For what it's worth, the GG print novelization expands this scene (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060324), and explicitly states that for some as-yet unknown reason Barry believed that Klaus was working for the Other, which is why he hid himself and Agatha.
Wait a moment... currently, Klaus is working for the Other... sort of... and there's all that time travel....

[eee]

Oh, <BLEEP>!!!!!!!

[rooster707]

Oooh, Shovel Knight!

[stsasser]

And yes, I agree the QotD looks like Zola.

Same stance with arms spread as in her arrival in Mechanicsburg.
If it isn't Zola, it's somebody imitating her.

[keybounce]

I think this is a mistake:

Monday's and Wednesday's pages are two halves of what will be a double-page spread in the published book.

[Southern Cross]

So Barry's been time travelling?

[Hurkyl]

So Barry's been time travelling?

They keep talking about people coming back -- could very well be talking about a time rather than a place!

[runeghost]

They keep talking about people coming back -- could very well be talking about a time rather than a place!

My (mostly baseless) suspicion is that they're coming back from Mars. I.e. Skifander is on Mars, where Lucrezia sent Klaus, which also has some connection to the Other, and where Bill and Barry battled. And perhaps where Bill is still trapped? Not to deny that there's also time travel, of course.

[geoduck]

My (mostly baseless) suspicion is that they're coming back from Mars. I.e. Skifander is on Mars, where Lucrezia sent Klaus, which also has some connection to the Other, and where Bill and Barry battled. And perhaps where Bill is still trapped? Not to deny that there's also time travel, of course.


I agree with the Skifander=Mars theory, though I predict that Barry and Bill went to the Geister home"land", which will turn out to be on the Moon. I mostly say this because of the Geisters' general color scheme. I also wouldn't be surprised if Skifander and the Geister are both offshoots of some ancient/long-forgotten matriarchal project to colonize the solar system using portals instead of spaceships.

[Kislath]

Who is the Queen of the Dawn?

By that I mean, who is the REAL QotD. Who is she supposed to be? I don't remember.

Is there an index where all of the players and places and politics are listed so we can look up this stuff?
If not, could we make one?

Anyway, I think this is Zola, who either got wasped or just voluntarily made a dirty deal with someone.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Is there an index where all of the players and places and politics are listed so we can look up this stuff?
If not, could we make one?

There is a wiki (http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Queen_of_the_Dawn).

GW

[stsasser]

Who is the Queen of the Dawn?

By that I mean, who is the REAL QotD. Who is she supposed to be? I don't remember.

Is there an index where all of the players and places and politics are listed so we can look up this stuff?
If not, could we make one?

Anyway, I think this is Zola, who either got wasped or just voluntarily made a dirty deal with someone.

Volunteered for a ride-along (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20100705#.WGhEllw2HYg)

[geoduck]

Who is the Queen of the Dawn?

By that I mean, who is the REAL QotD. Who is she supposed to be? I don't remember.



We've been told almost nothing about her, only third-hand reports about her "peace making" efforts which have brought numerous northern-European fiefdoms under her control. We haven't even heard her public almost-certainly-a-lie backstory.

[HandofShadows]

We have heard Gil and Tarvek's opinion of her and they both belive that she is an aspect of The Other.

[Ellen]

And it's Zola for the win!

Here's hoping everyone there has quietly gotten a freshly constructed wasp eater as a status symbol.

I'm choosing to believe none of the Storm Kings invited her. Tarvek knows better, and Marcellus probably wouldn't lie to his sister (and I'm pretty sure he couldn't lie successfully to his grandmother). Andronicus likely doesn't know enough about the current situation to send out invitations even if he had a reason to (although, being nuts, maybe he decided to take a moment and send invites out to whatever Important Persons he could find in the phone book).

[geoduck]

And it's Zola for the win!

Here's hoping everyone there has quietly gotten a freshly constructed wasp eater as a status symbol.

I'm choosing to believe none of the Storm Kings invited her. Tarvek knows better, and Marcellus probably wouldn't lie to his sister (and I'm pretty sure he couldn't lie successfully to his grandmother). Andronicus likely doesn't know enough about the current situation to send out invitations even if he had a reason to (although, being nuts, maybe he decided to take a moment and send invites out to whatever Important Persons he could find in the phone book).

Andronicus doesn't even know Zola exists. He's still tunneling/battling his way to the surface. Zola definitely came here on her own initiative; Collette said she was coming to Paris anyway, this is just her coming early and taking advantage of the party to kill or enslave all the VIPs who are present.

[keybounce]

I think we have also found Tarvek's disguise.

The last I remember of Zola, she was fleeing from Agatha in the Castle. Since the baron came in and stopped time almost immediately afterwards, Zola must have been leaving Mechanicsburg as the Baron was approaching. So she has been hiding for almost 3 years now.

What has she been doing? She has had access to Lucrezia's knowledge and helpers; and I don't think there's anywhere near enough time for other people to have made wasp eaters.

My prediction: Agatha arrives right after "the Queen of the Dawn" releases her wasps, and just in time to save a few people from them.

EDIT: Actually, what would Zola want with the wasps?

[geoduck]

I think we have also found Tarvek's disguise.

The last I remember of Zola, she was fleeing from Agatha in the Castle. Since the baron came in and stopped time almost immediately afterwards, Zola must have been leaving Mechanicsburg as the Baron was approaching. So she has been hiding for almost 3 years now.

What has she been doing? She has had access to Lucrezia's knowledge and helpers; and I don't think there's anywhere near enough time for other people to have made wasp eaters.

My prediction: Agatha arrives right after "the Queen of the Dawn" releases her wasps, and just in time to save a few people from them.

EDIT: Actually, what would Zola want with the wasps?

The last we saw of her she was undergoing accelerated healing in the Mechanicsburg Hospital, having presented herself (possibly truthfully) as being Lucrezia while conspiring with Clank-Lu. Klaus was still there as well, recovering, so it wasn't "immediately" that he deployed the time-stop device. She had enough time to heal and get out of town before the hospital was destroyed and the time-stopper deployed.

And if she is (pretending to be) Lucrezia, of course she'd use slaver-wasps as part of her Queen of the Dawn plot.

[eee]

Diva? Command performance? Zola's a singer now? Come to think of it, wasn't 'singer' her cover story with Gil back in his Paris student days? This adds a new dimension to the 'Queen of the Dawn' situation.

I wonder how Granny's going to work this. Probably in some utterly devious way that's of benefit to her family.

Regarding Zola, the wasps, and the Other: Let us not forget, Zola has a copy of Lucrezia's mind prisoner in her mind. She can draw on all Lu's memories and, with her acting ability, pass as Lucrezia, apparently even to other Lu copies. The captive Lucrezia copy may be able to sabotage Zola in small ways, but overall, I would assume all the Other's secrets are now Zola's. As such she's in perfect position to hijack the Other's game and wind up winning everything. That's why Lucrezia-in-Agatha has stopped trying to suicide and take Agatha with her: She HAS to get to the rest of the Lucrezia Collective and warn them there's a Trojan Horse in their midst.

It looks like we're heading towards a major, major event.

[Ellen]

Andronicus doesn't even know Zola exists. He's still tunneling/battling his way to the surface. Zola definitely came here on her own initiative; Collette said she was coming to Paris anyway, this is just her coming early and taking advantage of the party to kill or enslave all the VIPs who are present.

Many a power mad spark (and probably some non-sparks) in the middle of staging major events would stop and ask for a list of Important People who should get front row seats to witness it.

Although, since I don't think Andy did this, I don't know that it's worth debating whether he might have been able to.

[Shining Wrath]

Since Marcellus, Tarvek (obviously), Grandmother, and Seffie didn't invite QotD - and since I very much doubt anyone else would dare issue an invitation to the Sturmvoraus family's party - she's crashing the party, and the Lu / Zola combination almost certainly intends to do something extremely naughty to all those people who are standing around with their mouths open, ready to sing.

Unless I miss my bet, there's about to be a horde of slaver wasps unleashed. And it's only been a few days in-comic since Agatha penned her little treatise, it's unlikely that the knowledge of how to make wasp eaters is widespread. It has not been specified how long is required to make one, but I would guess a good Spark could manage it in under a week - thus, The Other is accelerating her plans because Agatha has forced her hand.

The Master of Paris would be on the short list of "people who would receive a courtesy copy of the treatise" and "people who, with a copy, could quickly make a wasp eater". Did he? How many?

This is heading toward a major plot development, probably the motivation for Agatha to flee to England.

Apropos nothing, I vote for Skifander being on Mars. E.G., the Storm King's family is Sturmvoraus, Martians used to be Little Green Men, so a place named "Sky...." featuring green-haired warrior princesses is on Mars, because puns.

[lord_khaine]

Apropos nothing, I vote for Skifander being on Mars. E.G., the Storm King's family is Sturmvoraus, Martians used to be Little Green Men, so a place named "Sky...." featuring green-haired warrior princesses is on Mars, because puns.

Highly unlikely though. from what we saw of Zeetha's flashback then explorers in airships managed to find Skifander.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And airship pirates managed to screw everything up.

[eschmenk]

Apropos nothing, I vote for Skifander being on Mars. E.G., the Storm King's family is Sturmvoraus, Martians used to be Little Green Men, so a place named "Sky...." featuring green-haired warrior princesses is on Mars, because puns.

I don't understand what you are thinking. Why would a place known for little green men have a fierce matriarchal society? The men are so little they get bullied by the women? Is that the idea?

If I were to think of a planet that Zeetha might come from, I would think Venus would be much more likely.


Highly unlikely though. from what we saw of Zeetha's flashback then explorers in airships managed to find Skifander.

In theory they might have found a portal to Mars while exploring a remote location, but I agree that seems unnecessarily complicated. I really don't care where it is.

[geoduck]

Highly unlikely though. from what we saw of Zeetha's flashback then explorers in airships managed to find Skifander.

Yes. On the other hand, as depicted, the "hallucinations" that Zeetha experienced while traveling on said airship could actually be zero gravity. The brief glimpses we've seen of Skif seem to show that it's underground or domed, and that attacks by large monsters are an ongoing problem. In the print-novels, it's been given the additional title "Guardian of the Red Mountain".

Also, since we've been told outside the comic that Skif is where Klaus/"Chump" was sent by Lucrezia and met his wife, Gil is almost certainly the son the queen of the place. And Tarvek jokes at one point that when young Gil was wondering who his parents were, one of the guesses was "Martian Prince." And this would explain why Lucrezia thought it was a good place to get rid of Klaus, and why she was so surprised he was able to get back.

Obviously none of these are conclusive, but I wouldn't be surprised if they turn out to be foreshadowing.

[SZbNAhL]

Yes. On the other hand, as depicted, the "hallucinations" that Zeetha experienced while traveling on said airship could actually be zero gravity.

This comes up every time "Skiffander is on Mars" theory gets brought up, to the point that I'd just kind of accepted it, but looking back at the relevant page (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041101#.WGzJulzIsfM), I'm not so sure. The "ceiling" seems to have a carpet on it, and there's a chair sitting on it, all four feet making contact. That doesn't look like zero gravity to me; it looks like the floor's switched with the ceiling in someone's fever dreams. Besides, who builds a spaceship with furniture that's not fixed down?

Actually, who builds a spaceship at all? I know I brought this up last time, but it really doesn't make any sense to me that there's an expedition to Mars in the first place, apparently without the backing of any of the major factions. We've now seen the Wulfenbach Empire, Paris, the Incorruptible Library and a sizeable portion of the Knights of Jove and nobody seems to have the ability or inclination to explore space. It's possible for some university somewhere to fund an expedition to Africa or the New World, but space travel is a whole other level.

[factotum]

The "ceiling" seems to have a carpet on it, and there's a chair sitting on it, all four feet making contact. That doesn't look like zero gravity to me; it looks like the floor's switched with the ceiling in someone's fever dreams. Besides, who builds a spaceship with furniture that's not fixed down?


Um, isn't that contradicting yourself? The chair and carpet might still be attached because they *are* fixed down, and it's just Zeetha and her bedding that have floated off.

[SZbNAhL]

Um, isn't that contradicting yourself? The chair and carpet might still be attached because they *are* fixed down, and it's just Zeetha and her bedding that have floated off.

Oh. Yes. *Facepalms*. I added the fixing-down furniture thing as an afterthought and didn't think through how it invalidated my main point. Please ignore that entire paragraph.

[eee]

This comes up every time "Skiffander is on Mars" theory gets brought up, to the point that I'd just kind of accepted it, but looking back at the relevant page (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041101#.WGzJulzIsfM), I'm not so sure. The "ceiling" seems to have a carpet on it, and there's a chair sitting on it, all four feet making contact. That doesn't look like zero gravity to me; it looks like the floor's switched with the ceiling in someone's fever dreams. Besides, who builds a spaceship with furniture that's not fixed down?

Actually, who builds a spaceship at all? I know I brought this up last time, but it really doesn't make any sense to me that there's an expedition to Mars in the first place, apparently without the backing of any of the major factions. We've now seen the Wulfenbach Empire, Paris, the Incorruptible Library and a sizeable portion of the Knights of Jove and nobody seems to have the ability or inclination to explore space. It's possible for some university somewhere to fund an expedition to Africa or the New World, but space travel is a whole other level.

Background information indicates that travel between the Americas and Europa is almost non-existent. I would assume the seas are full of thousands of years of Spark experiments gone wrong - or horribly right - and are impassible to sailing ships. That's why American adventurers like Thundering Engine Woman (the original) who reach Europa are such a big deal. If space travel were possible I doubt they'd waste time on Mars when getting to the New World would be even more interesting.

ON the other hand, the idea that Zeetha's mother is the GG version of Dejah Thoris IS pleasing!

[eschmenk]

New comic (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170104)

Is the name of the wine a shoutout to Rena del Pieve Gobbi (http://rena.ca/)? That's all that I could come up with.


Um, isn't that contradicting yourself? The chair and carpet might still be attached because they *are* fixed down, and it's just Zeetha and her bedding that have floated off.

But on the other hand, she seems to be affected by gravity. For example, her hair is hanging toward her pillow.

Also, although it wasn't canonical, we saw artwork that seemed to show War of the Worlds style Martians a while ago. I don't really know, but I think it's somewhat unlikely that Phil would have done that if he planned to make GG's Mars and Martians inconsistent with War of the Worlds.


ON the other hand, the idea that Zeetha's mother is the GG version of Dejah Thoris IS pleasing!

Unfortunately for that specific idea, in interviews Phil and Kaja talk up being influenced by H. Rider Haggard much more than they do with Edgar Rice Burroughs. In She, the Amazonian civilization was in Africa, and in King Solomon's Mines and its sequels, Allan Quatermain traveled throughout the British Empire, staying on Earth. Given that, the difficulty of travel to the Americas, and the fact that Africa has barely been mentioned, I'm expecting Skiffander to probably be in Africa or at least somewhere on Earth.

[Shining Wrath]

Highly unlikely though. from what we saw of Zeetha's flashback then explorers in airships managed to find Skifander.

Bill and Barry went there - in a rowboat. Top that!

[Rogar Demonblud]

They're Heterodynes. The Laws of Physics flee from the sheer amount of Narrativium oozing out of their pores.

[stsasser]

Nice to see Tweedle fulfilled his promise to Tybalt (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20141128#.WG26RFw2HYg). :smallcool:

[halfeye]

Nice to see Tweedle fulfilled his promise to Tybalt (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20141128#.WG26RFw2HYg). :smallcool:
Even idiots fulfill their promises.

[Shining Wrath]

They're Heterodynes. The Laws of Physics flee from the sheer amount of Narrativium oozing out of their pores.

And Zeetha is one of Agatha's best friends and has taught her much of combat. The Narrativium of Agatha, title character, reaches at least to Mars.

[eee]

I wonder what a steampunk spaceship would look like.

(Googles)

Oh. Those are actually rather impressive. :smallamused:

[factotum]

Let me guess...virtually everything you found was from Warhammer 40K? :smallsmile:

As for today's strip: Zola is either setting Martellus up for a fall, or she's going to use her control of the Geisterdamen to make him look really good. I have no idea what her motive is for either at this point.

[petersohn]

I wonder what a steampunk spaceship would look like.

(Googles)

Oh. Those are actually rather impressive. :smallamused:

They actually look less spacefaring than the Star Wars spaceships.

[stsasser]

Let me guess...virtually everything you found was from Warhammer 40K? :smallsmile:

As for today's strip: Zola is either setting Martellus up for a fall, or she's going to use her control of the Geisterdamen to make him look really good. I have no idea what her motive is for either at this point.

I think the dancing nuns all carrying mini wasp generators disguised as lanterns makes the former possibility the front runner.

[HandofShadows]

Let me guess...virtually everything you found was from Warhammer 40K? :smallsmile:

As for today's strip: Zola is either setting Martellus up for a fall, or she's going to use her control of the Geisterdamen to make him look really good. I have no idea what her motive is for either at this point.

Wouldn't Warhammer 40K be gothic and not steampunk? :smallconfused:

I think Zola is out to make Tweedle look good. Who do you think will come and screw it up? The Master or Agatha? :smallamused:

[Egneil]

Wouldn't Warhammer 40K be gothic and not steampunk? :smallconfused:

I think Zola is out to make Tweedle look good. Who do you think will come and screw it up? The Master or Agatha? :smallamused:

My guess is the old storm king himself. Maybe with a rant about how all impostors cannot hope to reach his strength.

[HandofShadows]

My guess is the old storm king himself. Maybe with a rant about how all impostors cannot hope to reach his strength.

Yeah, forgot about him. The person that could take him on is headed to Paris though. As in Gil. The Storm Kings main power is the lightning he tosses about. And Gil is an expert just that thing. :smallbiggrin:

[Shining Wrath]

It seems rather obvious that this is about to be a many sided battle.


Simon Voltaire and his still-considerable forces, even if he can't control all of Paris as he once did
Zola and whoever she's working for, who is probably (but not certainly) also employing Beausoliel and controlling the Geisterdamen. That is, The Other (seems likely).
Agatha and crew, who are going to make a real mess of the Geisters when they arrive any minute now unless someone else does first. Naughty children will learn their lesson, oh yes they will.
House Sturmvoraus - Smoke Knights, Knights of the Hunt, and the various kin themselves
Andronicus and Prende - unknown just how big an entrance he'll make
Gil and Bang and however much Wulfenbach firepower they bring
Hicks and Vole
The forces of the library may follow Andronicus
I'm not sure we've seen the last of Larana and Hoffman, either


Despite the rather incredible intelligence-gathering capabilities represented on that list, I am pretty sure none of the listed entities know that all of the others are on the field. Maybe the Other - but no, I don't see how even The Other knows about Gil and Hicks following respectively Tarvek and Zeetha to Paris. And almost no one should know about Vole, who I suspect is going to be generally powerful once he enters battle.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, about all we're missing for this to be a complete circus is Krosp and the Bears, as an opening act for Othar Tryggvason, Gentleman Adventurer!

[geoduck]

We're definitely going to see Larana/Eldin/the Librarians again at some point, if only to find out what it was the first two were looking for in the Corbettite crypts.

I kind of hope Krosp doesn't turn up. Not because I dislike the character, I like him fine, but because he has no real reason to go to Paris. I'd assume that his number one priority is getting his creator off of Castle Wulfenbach.

[Shining Wrath]

I did forget Othar, and since there's absolutely no reason for him to show up, he will save the day, because that's what Gentleman Adventurers do. It's his metier, if you will.

[Kantaki]

Are those party guests exited about the attacking Geisterdamen?
I shouldn't be surprised, but I would have expected some survival instincts.
Oh well, maybe we will get to see Darwin at work.
Unless someone plays hero of course.

But since the available heroic, or opportunistic as the case might be- looking at you Martellus, cast members would make for a amazingly team up- with the appropriate amount of infighting obviously -I don't mind that.

[Landis963]

It seems rather obvious that this is about to be a many sided battle.


Simon Voltaire and his still-considerable forces, even if he can't control all of Paris as he once did
Zola and whoever she's working for, who is probably (but not certainly) also employing Beausoliel and controlling the Geisterdamen. That is, The Other (seems likely).
Agatha and crew, who are going to make a real mess of the Geisters when they arrive any minute now unless someone else does first. Naughty children will learn their lesson, oh yes they will.
House Sturmvoraus - Smoke Knights, Knights of the Hunt, and the various kin themselves
Andronicus and Prende - unknown just how big an entrance he'll make
Gil and Bang and however much Wulfenbach firepower they bring
Hicks and Vole
The forces of the library may follow Andronicus
I'm not sure we've seen the last of Larana and Hoffman, either


Despite the rather incredible intelligence-gathering capabilities represented on that list, I am pretty sure none of the listed entities know that all of the others are on the field. Maybe the Other - but no, I don't see how even The Other knows about Gil and Hicks following respectively Tarvek and Zeetha to Paris. And almost no one should know about Vole, who I suspect is going to be generally powerful once he enters battle.


Yeah, about all we're missing for this to be a complete circus is Krosp and the Bears, as an opening act for Othar Tryggvason, Gentleman Adventurer!

And the man in the back said 'Everyone ATTACK' and it turned into a ballroom blitz
and the girl in the corner said 'Boy I wanna warn you it'll turn into a ballroom blitz,'
Ballroom Blitz (chikadoom chikadoom chika)
Ballroom Blitz (chikadoom chikadoom chika)

[keybounce]

I wanted to say something like "20 gambit pileup time", but it seems I have been beaten to the posting.

And yes, I also had forgotten about

Othar Tryggvason
Gentleman Adventurer!

EDIT: Darn, I was trying to make his name giant size, but it shows the same size for me.

[eee]

Are those party guests exited about the attacking Geisterdamen?
I shouldn't be surprised, but I would have expected some survival instincts.
Oh well, maybe we will get to see Darwin at work.
Unless someone plays hero of course.

But since the available heroic, or opportunistic as the case might be- looking at you Martellus, cast members would make for a amazingly team up- with the appropriate amount of infighting obviously -I don't mind that.

These ARE the movers and shakers of much of Europa. Attacking them may be like trying to shoot someone in the midst of a crowd of New Hong Kongers, to reference another Foglio work. As Psmith found out, you don't do that, because EVERYBODY on New Hong Kong is really dangerous and you'll have dozens of heavily armed fighters automatically firing back at you.

[keybounce]

Equally, don't try to explain something to a bunch of Psmith with a hangover.

[multilis]

The obvious play is that the "fight" is the distraction while the wasps get everyone. (No point killing your future slaves) So as much chaos with as little killing as possible, mainly attacking anyone who is able to fight back against the wasps.

Do other factions than Gil already know Queen of Dawn=Waspzilla?

[geoduck]

The obvious play is that the "fight" is the distraction while the wasps get everyone. (No point killing your future slaves) So as much chaos with as little killing as possible, mainly attacking anyone who is able to fight back against the wasps.

Do other factions than Gil already know Queen of Dawn=Waspzilla?

The Immortal Library at least suspected, which is why they snatched Tarvek.

[Lethologica]

"Perosnally"

[The Glyphstone]

Well, now we know why the Master is so bulky underneath his robe. He's wearing a life support system.

[eee]

Ah!

That explains the huge body AND the longevity: Steampunk cyborg.

[petersohn]

And now will come the scene similar to when the Doom Bell was rung. And so another worf escalation begins...

[Shining Wrath]

I don't think the Master wears a life support system; I think his entire body may be artificial. Worked with van Rijn, remember?
I strongly suspect Beausoliel is about to get the surprise of his life - which won't last long. Mess with the best, die like the rest.

The Master looks strangely affectionate when speaking of Albia. Old loves?

[factotum]

The Master looks strangely affectionate when speaking of Albia. Old loves?

Might just be because she's the only person he remembers from his youth who's still alive...

[HandofShadows]

I'm starting to get worried about finding out what is keeping Albia alive so long. :smalleek:

[lord_khaine]

I'm starting to get worried about finding out what is keeping Albia alive so long.

It could be something as simple as perfected mind-transfer technology. Or being better at biology. Or being a series of cloned successors.

What i suspect is more frighting is the implied control she holds over her country.

[Shining Wrath]

Might just be because she's the only person he remembers from his youth who's still alive...
Possible. Memories do have a way of getting better with age.

Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words ...


I'm starting to get worried about finding out what is keeping Albia alive so long. :smalleek:

And lovely. Something along the lines of "bathing in the blood of virgins" would be indicated were she not a Spark. As a Spark, she's bathing in the extracted mental energies of Clanks.

[Scarlet Knight]

We already have werewolves, why not a vampire? Phil has long held the notion that magic is simply science not yet understood.

[geoduck]

We already have werewolves, why not a vampire? Phil has long held the notion that magic is simply science not yet understood.

Both werewolves and vampires have been mentioned in passing as existing in GG, but if you're referring to Tybalt, it appears to me that he's always a wolf-guy/bipedal sparkhound, and it's the "nerve enhancing" armor that makes him look human.

[eee]

If I were Beausoleil, and I was hijacking the MoP's subsystems, I'd make sure he couldn't jack in and resume control. In fact, I'd set up booby traps so that if he tried it, the act would fry his brain - possibly the only vulnerable part of him - and end his threat once and for all.

We'll see if the duplicitous Professor thinks like I do.

[Shining Wrath]

If I were Beausoleil, and I was hijacking the MoP's subsystems, I'd make sure he couldn't jack in and resume control. In fact, I'd set up booby traps so that if he tried it, the act would fry his brain - possibly the only vulnerable part of him - and end his threat once and for all.

We'll see if the duplicitous Professor thinks like I do.

I was just about to make a similar comment, but add this: The Master of Paris has relied on delegates to preserve his aging body, but kept the direct-control center intact in case he needed it. Now, being the careful long-term planner that he is, did he build in protections against booby-traps - that is, secure his emergency back-door control center? Of course, it's possible Beausoliel figured out what those protections were and bypassed them - but then, there may have been obvious ways to bypass the protections that in fact did not work, and the Master will have additional protections Beausoliel didn't see.

At some point we're Going Up Against A Sicilian with Death On The Line, and all that remains is to find out which one of the two is immune to iocaine powder.

[eschmenk]

If I were Beausoleil, and I was hijacking the MoP's subsystems, I'd make sure he couldn't jack in and resume control. In fact, I'd set up booby traps so that if he tried it, the act would fry his brain - possibly the only vulnerable part of him - and end his threat once and for all.

We'll see if the duplicitous Professor thinks like I do.

I don't think Beausoleil could be that much of a threat to the MoP and I'm not so sure that we'll see exactly what he would do. Even though he tends to overestimate his abilities relative to others, I think he still knew better than to take on the MoP by himself. Even if he would have done something, Beausoleil's new leader may have made corrections and improvements upon what Beausoleil would have done. I'll guess that person is Clank Lucrezia. (I could easily see Beausoleil thinking that he could learn a lot from her and the ability to learn new things was a reason he gave for switching sides.) Lucrezia would be the main threat to the MoP, not Beausoleil, IMO. Knowing Lucrezia, she might not intend to kill the MoP. She might prefer to try to find some way to keep him as some sort of figurehead. After all, it's probably not as rewarding to gloat at someone after you completely fry their brain.

I'll go ahead and further guess that this is a one-two punch. We have clank Lucrezia working with Beausoleil to undermine the MoP's systems while Zola acts as the Queen of the Dawn to keep everyone else distracted. Meanwhile revenants and wasps take over Paris. At least that's their plan, I think.

But yes, making the MoP's job difficult and setting booby traps for when the MoP jacks in are obvious things to do. I don't doubt that there would be some of that. The traps' exact nature and intent (distractions perhaps?) would be more uncertain, though. I also don't know how independently Lucrezia would allow Beausoleil to operate (assuming she's in charge). I wouldn't even put it past her to let Beausoleil do whatever he wants in order to distract the MoP while she prepares the real trap; if that's the case we will still see if Beausoleil thinks like you do, even with her in charge. I do hope you would be less willing to kiss up to Lucrezia than he probably is, though. :smalltongue:

[danelsan]

Hmm...I wouldn't put much confidence in him being able to boobytrap the Master's main control to any great effect. Heck, it is possible that (like Abraxus) he doesn't even know of it. But even if he did, I doubt he is at the same grade of Sparkiness as the MoP, and the fully connected control of the city is very likely to be Voltaire's masterpiece.

[eee]

So it would appear Beausoleil and I do NOT think alike, or he was not up to the task, or he is ignorant of the nature of the Master's control of Paris. Or he hasn't really switched sides, he's still working for the Master, but making everyone believe he is not; I think that would make him a quintuple agent at this point. Or he's rigged the system to make the MoP think he's in control when he really isn't. If it's any of the former, that does not bode well for the invaders. If the latter...

Regarding what I would do if I were in Beausoleil's shoes; I can't say "Polish them" because his clothing, while eccentric, appears impeccable. But knowing what I know, I would be against Lucreazia with might and main. It is clear something really bad happened to her in the past; and not only does she seem now to be borderline insane and megalomaniacal, she's lost most human feeling. Someone like that, in absolute control of a large portion of humanity, would be too dangerous to allow.

The thing is, we don't know how much Beausoleil knows. If he IS working for Lu, he may think she's just another would be conqueror, and not the end of all.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But knowing what I know, I would be against Lucreazia with might and main. It is clear something really bad happened to her in the past; and not only does she seem now to be borderline insane and megalomaniacal, she's lost most human feeling. Someone like that, in absolute control of a large portion of humanity, would be too dangerous to allow.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment... how is this really all that different from the current batch of rulers? Remember that the zombie-like revenants where the mistake. Most waspped people can go about their lives with almost full free will - sure, they have to obey Lu's orders, but those won't happen that often; only about as often as the Baron used to come down and, gun to the head, told you do to something for him.

From the point of view of someone wanting to climb the leadership ladder, Lu is not all that different from Albia or the Master, and if she offers Paris in exchange for your help, well, it's a good offer.

(Yes, her method is a lot more invasive than gun-to-the head, but I'm at a loss as to how to compare it to the Master's, and everything we have heard from the UK is that it might be about as bad over there).

Grey Wolf

[eee]

Playing devil's advocate for a moment... how is this really all that different from the current batch of rulers? Remember that the zombie-like revenants where the mistake. Most waspped people can go about their lives with almost full free will - sure, they have to obey Lu's orders, but those won't happen that often; only about as often as the Baron used to come down and, gun to the head, told you do to something for him.

From the point of view of someone wanting to climb the leadership ladder, Lu is not all that different from Albia or the Master, and if she offers Paris in exchange for your help, well, it's a good offer.

(Yes, her method is a lot more invasive than gun-to-the head, but I'm at a loss as to how to compare it to the Master's, and everything we have heard from the UK is that it might be about as bad over there).

Grey Wolf

Because SHE might pull it off. Worse, she might bungle it and leave Europa in ruins for generations, as she nearly did before.

And if she DOES succeed in conquest, there is little to indicate she will allow anyone capable of posing even the slightest challenge to her to have free will. This is the part anyone serving her needs to think through. She demands total obedience, and gets it through the wasps. The higher and more powerful you are, the more certain you are to be her slave. And that's only not onerous, as long as she's merciful. If she orders everyone to work until they die, they will work until they die, because they have no choice.

Albia seems to have a similar situation. But given that the Circus had no qualms about going to England and nobody reacts to her the same way they do to the Other's mind control, the circumstances would seem to be different. We'll have to wait until the story gets there to see. With a gun to the head, there's always the chance you can snatch the gun away and end the tyranny. With Lu, what hope do the infected have?

[Shining Wrath]

I am guessing that since the Master hasn't used his "Deep Machines" and "Ancient Weapons" since before Abraxus was born - well before, he's "nowhere near old enough", Beausoliel knows nothing of them, and Lu / the Other probably only know that something along those lines exists.

Also,
petty, jumped up mechanical ghost indicates that the Master does not regard Beausoliel as a threat. Of course, pride goes before a loss of total control of Paris as the proverb has it, but I'm still betting on Simon Voltaire in a contest of wills.

[geoduck]

Playing devil's advocate for a moment... how is this really all that different from the current batch of rulers? Remember that the zombie-like revenants where the mistake. Most waspped people can go about their lives with almost full free will - sure, they have to obey Lu's orders, but those won't happen that often; only about as often as the Baron used to come down and, gun to the head, told you do to something for him.

From the point of view of someone wanting to climb the leadership ladder, Lu is not all that different from Albia or the Master, and if she offers Paris in exchange for your help, well, it's a good offer.

(Yes, her method is a lot more invasive than gun-to-the head, but I'm at a loss as to how to compare it to the Master's, and everything we have heard from the UK is that it might be about as bad over there).


We still don't know what her ultimate goal is. If she really wants to "just" rule everything, I can see your point, I guess.. but.. in Othar's Twitter-based adventures, we see a Europa where The Other evidently won, and the entire continent was reduced to an uninhabited ruin. Was that her intention all along? We need more info.

[slayerx]

So anyone else remember abaxus's name being denis before today?


Playing devil's advocate for a moment... how is this really all that different from the current batch of rulers? Remember that the zombie-like revenants where the mistake. Most waspped people can go about their lives with almost full free will - sure, they have to obey Lu's orders, but those won't happen that often; only about as often as the Baron used to come down and, gun to the head, told you do to something for him.

From the point of view of someone wanting to climb the leadership ladder, Lu is not all that different from Albia or the Master, and if she offers Paris in exchange for your help, well, it's a good offer.

(Yes, her method is a lot more invasive than gun-to-the head, but I'm at a loss as to how to compare it to the Master's, and everything we have heard from the UK is that it might be about as bad over there).

Grey Wolf

Lu employs mass mind control to not only maintain absolute order but to also make sure all her wasped subjects worship her. Heck the wasped people only appear to have free will because they are sleeper agents; most don't even realize they are under her control under she enforces it. She does this not for their sake, but so that they can mix themselves into the regular population and infiltrate her enemies. Free will goes out the window once she asserts her control. Through the wasps she can and does force her subjects to fight and sacrifice themselves for her sake. The Baron and the master however really just enforce a rule of law just like any government. Heck if you don't like the laws you could just leave their territory and go live somewhere else. They also seem to respect disrespect against themselves. I mean the Baron is constantly ridiculed in heterodyne plays and books but he hasn't done anything to stop it. He even seems like he gives rulers a certain degree of Autonomy over their lands; like in the case of Dr.Beetle he only gave beetle ONE rule he had to follow. Really his only concern seems to be people maintaining the peace and not causing trouble.

They both also have a certain respect for territorial boundaries. The master limits himself to just paris. The Baron only takes control of lands that have been the source of conflict, as he ignored both Paris and England, and halted his expansion once he took control of most of eastern europe. Paris and England don't cause trouble so he never tried to bring them under his control. Really the Baron HATES ruling over europe and only it does it because he finds it as the only way to prevent wars and conflict between the various powers. And really i think the baron had long term plans for Europe's peace beyond his time; he took pains to raise the future rulers of europe, most likely in the hope that they would learn to respect peace and eachother and not follow in their parents footsteps.

As for Albia, hard to speak of her... however it does sound like her control over the UK could indeed just as bad as Lu's. Granted we do not know how far her control goes; she might make it impossible to oppose her, but she may not be forcing people to serve her. And she also hasn't shown a desire to expand her control beyond the UK



Also, indicates that the Master does not regard Beausoliel as a threat. Of course, pride goes before a loss of total control of Paris as the proverb has it, but I'm still betting on Simon Voltaire in a contest of wills.

Actually i think the master's point is that Beausoliel SHOULDN'T have been a threat. When the master was at the height of his power and control a man like Beausoliel would have been nothing and would have stood no chance. Its only in this time of weakened control that someone so petty and low could actually strike him

Speaking of that comment though, i'm interested in the description of "mechanical ghost". Could be that Beausoliel is technically already dead and just continues on through his clank bodies

[eschmenk]

Regarding what I would do if I were in Beausoleil's shoes...she's lost most human feeling...
Speaking of loosing human feeling, not only do I think you would be following Lucrezia if you were Beusoleil, I don't think you would even be human anymore. :smalltongue: :smalltongue: In the latest update, the MoP called him a "mechanical ghost." I could easily imagine that Beusoleil was once human, but preserved himself as an AI with a bunch of mechanical bodies to control. (Recall that the shopkeeper was a similar, but inferior, AI created to preserve the original person in that case, too.) Beusoleil said that he was inside the Paris systems (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20161214). I think he meant that literally, so he's a bit like an Agent Smith inside the Matrix now, except the bodies he controls are outside the systems. (I have no idea how he manages to control them remotely; that may be a weakness that could be exploited.) That makes me wonder how much Beusoleil would care anymore about the well-being of flesh and blood humans. Even if not, I could see Lucrezia convincing Beusoleil that everyone would be better off with her in charge. I think she really believes that (or can't imagine otherwise) and I could imagine Beusoleil wanting to believe it.


Playing devil's advocate for a moment... how is this really all that different from the current batch of rulers?
To me, the biggest difference is that when Klaus or the MoP clamp down, they see that as a necessary evil. They at least are aware that they are causing harm and try to minimize the harm as a matter of principle. Lucrezia doesn't worry about that. Both Klaus and the MoP are concerned about fairness; Lucrezia isn't.


We still don't know what her ultimate goal is. If she really wants to "just" rule everything, I can see your point, I guess.. but.. in Othar's Twitter-based adventures, we see a Europa where The Other evidently won, and the entire continent was reduced to an uninhabited ruin. Was that her intention all along? We need more info.

I think we do know what her ultimate goal is: It's to rule everything. That's what she said and nothing else makes sense. The Foglios made it clear that Othar's twitter was non-canonical, so I would use caution when applying anything from it. That said, my interpretation is that in the alternate timeline, Lucrezia's attempt to take over resulted in a thermonuclear war with almost no survivors. Apparently she screwed up, yet again. I saw nothing to indicate that what happened was her desired outcome. It almost certainly wasn't, IMO.


So anyone else remember abaxus's name being denis before today?
I didn't remember, but I copied the artwork to my computer so I can reread the previous pages quicker. Yes, he was "Denis" on Monday's page. Also, I see you ninjaed me wrt Beausoleil's ghost.

[geoduck]

I think we do know what her ultimate goal is: It's to rule everything. That's what she said and nothing else makes sense. The Foglios made it clear that Othar's twitter was non-canonical, so I would use caution when applying anything from it.


In at least one 2008 interview (http://criticalmass.crazydreams.org/sidebars/othars-twitter-interview-with-phil-foglio-january-2008), Phil said that it was canonical. Do you have a cite where he changed his mind?

[halfeye]

In at least one 2008 interview (http://criticalmass.crazydreams.org/sidebars/othars-twitter-interview-with-phil-foglio-january-2008), Phil said that it was canonical. Do you have a cite where he changed his mind?

As I understood it he said it was canonically Othar's narrative, and any mistakes Othar makes, are Othar's, so it's as canonical as Othar is correct, which is unknown. I've not read Othar's Twitter, so I don't know how much difference that would make.

[eschmenk]

In at least one 2008 interview (http://criticalmass.crazydreams.org/sidebars/othars-twitter-interview-with-phil-foglio-january-2008), Phil said that it was canonical. Do you have a cite where he changed his mind?

Well, even there he seems to be agreeing that Othar's narration isn't necessarily reliable. But yes, saying that they said that it's non-canonical is too simplistic. That's it's Othar's journal is canon; that it's historically accurate isn't. I was probably thinking of what they said about the side-stories occasionally inserted into the main comic. For example, Revenge of the Weasel Queen was called "apocryphal" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070827) right in the introduction. That's the same sort of thing, though. That it is a story told about Agatha is canonical. The happenings in the story, however, aren't.


As I understood it he said it was canonically Othar's narrative, and any mistakes Othar makes, are Othar's, so it's as canonical as Othar is correct, which is unknown. I've not read Othar's Twitter, so I don't know how much difference that would make.

Well, sometimes the (in)accuracy is kind of obvious. Othar sometimes corrects what he said earlier and sometimes things are pretty tongue-in-cheek. For a while, though, things became fairly serious and Othar wound up living on an island in the North Sea. Later, when Othar returned to the mainland, he found that Europa had been completely devastated. Finally, Othar's consciousness was sent back in time to prevent that outcome from happening. Long story short, that wound up being an alternate timeline that will never happen, and which Othar quickly forgot about, so it won't matter as far as the main story is concerned. However, it apparently does show what could have happened if Othar hadn't stayed in Eastern Europe and been captured by Grantz, then sent by Klaus into Castle Heterodyne to rescue Gil. It actually was a rather touching story that wasn't nearly as silly as some of the other tweets.

[Added: Oops. I edited in the bottom part after geoduck already wrote his reply below. The result is two different summaries of the same story.]

[geoduck]

Yeah, OK, I admit this is Othar we're talking about, so how much of what he describes actually happened is open to debate. Still, if he did see the Europa that he describes, it will be interesting to learn if that was what the Other wanted to happen.

One spoiler bit for anyone who hasn't read it:

Other meets a Geister in "modern day" Paris and they fall in love. They end up going off to live together on a small North Sea island for several decades. (She claims she is under no obligation to rejoin her sisters.) After she dies peacefully, he returns to the mainland to find Europa deserted and wrecked, with enormous but abandoned Slaver-Wasp structures dotting the landscape. From the scattered news reports he's able to scrounge up, Gil died in Castle Heterodyne, "Agatha" married Klaus, and Paris was the site of a desperate last stand by surviving Wulfenbach forces and the Master against the Other. He wanders around and finally meets an aged Tarvek living in a ruined possibly radioactive city, who somehow sends Othar's mind back in time to occupy his own younger body. The story then seems to sync up with the main narrative, with Othar being captured by Grantz and taken before the Baron in Mechanicsburg, possibly creating a new timeline.

[keybounce]

Alright, we started this thread about the same time that the Erfworld people did, and we update three times a week instead of 2. Yet they are pulling ahead of us. Post more people, post more.

Now, with that said: There is something missing from this 20 gambit pileup. We've seen what Europe is doing. We've got a representative from the USA, and have had references to the leader over there.

But what about Spain? What happens if they decide to send in some armed investigators to demand the truth about what is happening?

[keybounce]

How do I read Othar's Twitter in order, from the earliest to the current? Attempting to go there gives me, after scrolling past a few and an ad, to Feb 2014, and then a day by day into the past. (Interestingly, in feb 2014, he seems to be retiring).

I don't want to read it in reverse; how do I read it forward?

[Landis963]

Alright, we started this thread about the same time that the Erfworld people did, and we update three times a week instead of 2. Yet they are pulling ahead of us. Post more people, post more.

At least 50% of that thread is complaining about the pace. I don't believe we need to get any of that on us.


Now, with that said: There is something missing from this 20 gambit pileup. We've seen what Europe is doing. We've got a representative from the USA, and have had references to the leader over there.

But what about Spain? What happens if they decide to send in some armed investigators to demand the truth about what is happening?

...Isn't Spain part of Europa? And which one's the American representative?

[eschmenk]

We've got a representative from the USA, and have had references to the leader over there.
Who's the representative from the USA? The circus had an Italian woman who pretended to be the Thundering Engine Woman (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/info/cast/everybody.php), but she was never to the New World. The original Thundering Engine Woman was from the New World, but didn't appear in the comic. One of the many groups Tiktoffen was apparently working for was a group called the "Sons of Franklin;" they might have been American, but we didn't see them, either. Other than that, who would be from the USA? Or are you talking about a costume?


How do I read Othar's Twitter in order, from the earliest to the current? Attempting to go there gives me, after scrolling past a few and an ad, to Feb 2014, and then a day by day into the past. (Interestingly, in feb 2014, he seems to be retiring).

I don't want to read it in reverse; how do I read it forward?

Unfortunately, I don't know of any great way to do it. You can start here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/funextras/otharstwitter.php) where the oldest ones are, but you eventually get to the point where you need to switch to the Twitter page. At that point, all you can do is scroll down until you find where you left off and start reading from the bottom up as far as I know. And I'm pretty sure that a few of the tweets are missing in some places.

And yes, the tweets kind of died out and stopped for a few years, then resumed in 2014 (with Othar blaming his recording device), then stopped again after a couple of months.

[tonberrian]

New page is up.

And it looks like someone else needs to invest in a pair of back-up emergency pants.

[gooddragon1]

In other news, shocking developments at the masquerade. Europa pants shortage continues. Movie at 10.

[stsasser]

Heterodyne NoPants and StormKing SansCulotte will be all the rage in Paris by dawn.

[Rodin]

New page is up.

And it looks like someone else needs to invest in a pair of back-up emergency pants.

Reminds me of Sluggy Freelance.

"Torg, why is there a pair of pants on the floor?

"They're my emergency pants."

...

...

"Torg, why do you have emergency pants?"

"Don't know, but in every hypothetical I come up with, I'm glad I have them!"

[lord_khaine]

Speaking of loosing human feeling, not only do I think you would be following Lucrezia if you were Beusoleil, I don't think you would even be human anymore. In the latest update, the MoP called him a "mechanical ghost." I could easily imagine that Beusoleil was once human, but preserved himself as an AI with a bunch of mechanical bodies to control. (Recall that the shopkeeper was a similar, but inferior, AI created to preserve the original person in that case, too.) Beusoleil said that he was inside the Paris systems. I think he meant that literally, so he's a bit like an Agent Smith inside the Matrix now, except the bodies he controls are outside the systems. (I have no idea how he manages to control them remotely; that may be a weakness that could be exploited.) That makes me wonder how much Beusoleil would care anymore about the well-being of flesh and blood humans. Even if not, I could see Lucrezia convincing Beusoleil that everyone would be better off with her in charge. I think she really believes that (or can't imagine otherwise) and I could imagine Beusoleil wanting to believe it.

Good point, in the comic you linked Beusoleil did put pressure on the "and back again" part. He might very well be the ghost of a dead man in a series of clank bodies. And not have a main body at all.
If thats the case i can almost sympathise a little with him being shortsighted enough to work for the other. I can certainly imagine it being extremely frustrating if the only man who might know the secrets you needed, did not seem inclined to ever sharing them.

[eee]

Old joke about Scottish kilts, adapted to circumstances: What's worn under the tunic? There is nothing WORN under the tunic, everything is in perfect working order! :smallbiggrin:

The need for pants, as noted, is spreading.

We're going through Geister spiders at a rapid rate, here. And we've got another comparison of fighting skills: Zeetha, not quite at Geister level; Martellus, above. The question is, what's going on that enabled us to get that comparison? Zola has obviously ordered the Geisters to attack the party co-incident with her arrival. Is this a distraction to Martellus and the others who might have opposed her, or is she up to something else?

[lord_khaine]

We're going through Geister spiders at a rapid rate, here. And we've got another comparison of fighting skills: Zeetha, not quite at Geister level; Martellus, above. The question is, what's going on that enabled us to get that comparison? Zola has obviously ordered the Geisters to attack the party co-incident with her arrival. Is this a distraction to Martellus and the others who might have opposed her, or is she up to something else?

Ah well.. could just as easily say we are getting conflicting repports on human fighting skill. Human A, defeated by Geister Lucy, but Human B then defeats Geister Susan. What the heck is going on, do they actually differ in fighting skill despite being almost impossible to tell apart besides from the hair color?!

[anon62453]

But what about Spain? What happens if they decide to send in some armed investigators to demand the truth about what is happening?

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

[Kantaki]

Martellus asked for his pants.

I wonder if they will be brown...:smallamused:

[keybounce]

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

THANK YOU. I would not have believed it if no one got that. And isn't Woosley the spy from America?

===

Happy Birthday Kaja! May you recover and feel better soon.

[HandofShadows]

THANK YOU. I would not have believed it if no one got that. And isn't Woosley the spy from America?


Nope England.

[petersohn]

The need for pants, as noted, is spreading.

We're going through Geister spiders at a rapid rate, here.

So, how about some geister spider leather pants?

[eschmenk]

Ah well.. could just as easily say we are getting conflicting repports on human fighting skill. Human A, defeated by Geister Lucy, but Human B then defeats Geister Susan. What the heck is going on, do they actually differ in fighting skill despite being almost impossible to tell apart besides from the hair color?!

True, but I think it's more than that. I suspect that, although it's only part of the plan and although Martellus wasn't asked in advance, Zola is trying to make Martellus look good, so the Geisters are letting him win.

I think part of what's going on is an attempt to set up a situation similar to Zola's original Storm King plot, but instead of Zola pretending to be The Heterodyne and marrying Tarvek as the Storm King after Tarvek rescued her from a fake giant war clank attack, it would be Zola/Lucrezia as the Queen of the Dawn marrying Martellus after he saved her during a Geister attack in Paris. That would tend to win over even those people who haven't been wasped yet and would it seem believable that mobs of people (really revenants) would slavishly do what she wants. Clank Lucrezia is probably involved somehow behind the scenes because, unless things changed, she would need to be the one to give any orders to the revenants, like don't hit Martellus too hard. :smallamused:

Of course, it's not that simple. Zola is probably still in control of her copy of Lucrezia, so she would eventually do something different, but I think she's probably still pretending to be controlled. And I think people are probably being wasped whenever it's possible to do so without drawing attention to it happening. But for now, they are trying to keep most people from drawing any connections between the Queen of the Dawn and The Other / Lucrezia. Granted, some people will figure it out (Gil already has) but some people won't.

[keybounce]

Nope England.

Ohh, that's right.

...

Have we seen anyone from the Americas?
What if Skifander is in the Americas?
What if the H.B. went there?

[eee]

Ohh, that's right.

...

Have we seen anyone from the Americas?

Not that we know of.



What if Skifander is in the Americas?
What if the H.B. went there?

This would make more sense than Skifander being on Mars. And would explain why Lucrezia was dumbfounded to hear Klaus had returned.

But there are difficulties. First, the scientists who reached Skifander seemed to be in a fairly conventional airship; but if it were possible for airships to reach the Americas, travel between them and Europa would be much more common.

Also, Zeetha is a lost princess because she doesn't know where Skifander is. But if Skifander were in the Americas she'd know where, just not how to get there. The scientists surely would have explained about the Atlantic, and other continents, to the Queen and her court.

And the Geisters know about Skifander. Unless our pale skinned spider riders are also from the New World, that reduces the odds of it being in the Americas.

[geoduck]

Ohh, that's right.

...

Have we seen anyone from the Americas?
What if Skifander is in the Americas?
What if the H.B. went there?

I think it's already been mentioned, but to date the only American we've heard about is/was Thundering Engine Woman, who had some adventures with the Heterodyne brothers before returning home.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think part of what's going on is an attempt to set up a situation similar to Zola's original Storm King plot, but instead of Zola pretending to be The Heterodyne and marrying Tarvek as the Storm King after Tarvek rescued her from a fake giant war clank attack, it would be Zola/Lucrezia as the Queen of the Dawn marrying Martellus after he saved her during a Geister attack in Paris.

Actually, the original plan was for the "Heterodyne Heiress" to marry Martellus as the Storm King. Tarvek's plan was something different---what, we still don't know, unless that was revealed in one of the books I didn't read.

[eschmenk]

Actually, the original plan was for the "Heterodyne Heiress" to marry Martellus as the Storm King.
That's wrong. Tarvek was the first choice to play the Storm King. When Tarvek was captured by Klaus, Tarvek was poisoned and Martellus was picked to replace him, but originally it was supposed to be Tarvek + Zola (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20100621). You can see that Zola was still planning on using Tarvek (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20100623) at that point, even though the plan was already falling apart. By the time Martellus showed up in Mechanicsburg and revealed that he had been picked to replace Tarvek as Storm King (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20121031), Agatha had been recognized as the Heterodyne by the castle and Zola was in the hospital, so there wasn't any possibility that Zola could establish herself as the Heterodyne anymore (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130417).


Tarvek's plan was something different---what, we still don't know, unless that was revealed in one of the books I didn't read.
I said "Zola's plan" not "Tarvek's plan." Yes, Tarvek's plan was something different, but it wasn't what I was talking about. Tarvek's plan involved Tarvek double-crossing the original Tarvek as Storm King + fake Heterodyne plan. Although we don't know the details and don't know how many permutations it had (it seemed to have several), eventually it seemed to include Tarvek as Storm King plus Agatha as the Heterodyne.

[Spamotron]

Old joke about Scottish kilts, adapted to circumstances: What's worn under the tunic? There is nothing WORN under the tunic, everything is in perfect working order! :smallbiggrin:

The need for pants, as noted, is spreading.

We're going through Geister spiders at a rapid rate, here. And we've got another comparison of fighting skills: Zeetha, not quite at Geister level; Martellus, above. The question is, what's going on that enabled us to get that comparison? Zola has obviously ordered the Geisters to attack the party co-incident with her arrival. Is this a distraction to Martellus and the others who might have opposed her, or is she up to something else?

Or Martellus is more augmented than Zeetha is. Remember that combat inclined Sparks modifying themselves is well established.

[Hurkyl]

THANK YOU. I would not have believed it if no one got that. And isn't Woosley the spy from America?

===

Happy Birthday Kaja! May you recover and feel better soon.
So... you didn't expect that nobody would expect that nobody expects the Spanish inquision?

[Shining Wrath]

So... you didn't expect that nobody would expect that nobody expects the Spanish inquision?

In all the depictions of the party, I have yet to see a Comfy Chair. One should be brought forth, immediately!

EDIT: Did we already know that all the Knights of the Hunt were shape-shifters?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

EDIT: Did we already know that all the Knights of the Hunt were shape-shifters?

Yes. We saw them during the fight against the train.

GW

[Shining Wrath]

Yes. We saw them during the fight against the train.

GW

I remembered Tybalt, but not the rest.
I'd recommend against getting older - you forget things - but the alternatives don't seem to work out.

Anyway, Martellus is a bio-Spark, and he has his own Jagers.

[Southern Cross]

Which is a bad sign.....

[petersohn]

If Martellus were a really great spark, he could make armor that disappears when his men turn into wolves, then reappear when they turn back to humans.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Or he could just give them Guyver style bio-armor plates.

[Scarlet Knight]

Ooo ooo! With the proper placement of magnets and the right improvements, the discarded armor could reassemble into battle clanks!

[Rogar Demonblud]

You ever notice how much Sparks and Geeks sound alike?

[Rodin]

You ever notice how much Sparks and Geeks sound alike?

Reminds me of the internship I did at a chemical plant. The building I was in got a new secretary, so I was showing her around the building. As we went down one of the halls one of the engineers was stood in the hall outside his lab venting a huge canister of liquid nitrogen with a massive grin on his face. I'm still convinced that guy had the Spark.

[Douglas]

You ever notice how much Sparks and Geeks sound alike?
Of course they do! Sparks are just Geeks who happen to have a practically supernatural ability to put certain kinds of ideas into practice.

[eee]

The thrilling life of webcomic artists. :(

I hope Cheyenne has adequate homeowners insurance. And how did the roof catch fire in the first place?

[BannedInSchool]

And how did the roof catch fire in the first place?

Fuel + Oxygen + Ignition = FIRE!

[Rogar Demonblud]

More to the point, this time of year is good for chimneys catching fire, especially if you haven't cleaned them out for a bit.

[stsasser]

The thrilling life of webcomic artists. :(

I hope Cheyenne has adequate homeowners insurance. And how did the roof catch fire in the first place?

Per Arcanetimes:

Landlord is a cheap bastid:
Earlier that day, I had watched one of the roofers lay down tar paper then "activate* it with a long barreled flame thrower.
A practice the fire inspector would later inform me was called "torchdown roofing"

Most of the things we lost personally were things in the room under that roof-space. Damaged by the water the firefighters used put out the fire.
Sadly that room was where we kept our board games and my 30 years worth of comics.

Ouch

arcanetimes.com/ (http://arcanetimes.com/)

[Scarlet Knight]

Per Arcanetimes:

Earlier that day, I had watched one of the roofers lay down tar paper then "activate* it with a long barreled flame thrower.
A practice the fire inspector would later inform me was called "torchdown roofing"

Most of the things we lost personally were things in the room under that roof-space. Damaged by the water the firefighters used put out the fire.
Sadly that room was where we kept our board games and my 30 years worth of comics.

Ouch
[/URL]

30 years? Whew! Thank goodness! Everyone knows there hasn't been a decent comic written since about the time they decided to make the Joker a killer....um, present company excluded.

[eee]

Ah, a double page spread from the House of Contagion. This is great!

The cat on the back of Kaja's chair appears to be posturing or dancing.


30 years? Whew! Thank goodness! Everyone knows there hasn't been a decent comic written since about the time they decided to make the Joker a killer....um, present company excluded.

With a few exceptions, Marvel and DC have been producing rather pedestrian fare, yes. But many independent comics have been very good and interesting.

Let's hope he had all his comics bagged. That might have saved them.

[keybounce]

So how about them mechanical plague rats?

[geoduck]

Ah, a double page spread from the House of Contagion. This is great!

The cat on the back of Kaja's chair appears to be posturing or dancing.



Since the cat in front is playing the skulls, I'd assume it's dancing.

[Rogar Demonblud]

So I went on an archive binge (starting about the time Bang met Vole, FTR) and had an idea. Anyone else think she's exactly the kind of person the Old Heterodynes would offer the Jagerdraught to?

[Scarlet Knight]

Loves killing? Check.
High libido? Check.
Extremely loyal to master? Check.

[eschmenk]

Survival instincts vestigial at best: Check

Apparently, each person's personality carries through; it's their bodies that get changed.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Prefers to leave thinking to others? Check.

Really, all she needs is an obsession for building a uniform from what you loot from your enemies and she'd be there.

[eschmenk]

Really, all she needs is an obsession for building a uniform from what you loot from your enemies and she'd be there.
Actually, there is another (minor) difference. When Bang is told that she can't kill, she tends to get annoyed and frustrated. The reactions of the Jaegers (other than Vole) was more of a resigned acceptance. Bang and Vole would be more likely to rebel against following Bill and Barry than the other Jaegers.

[halfeye]

Why would anybody want Bang to have the Jagerdraft now? She's already at that level of dangerous. In thirty years time, it would be a very good idea to offer it, but now she's as fit and dangerous as a Jager as it is, so there really wouldn't be a lot of point.

[keybounce]

But if she's already at the Jager level, and got a Jager boost on top of Jager base, she could become the ultimate Jager, ready to fight the Ultimate Showdown.

... or not.

[hector212121]

Well, she wouldn't have to adjust to having that level of power, and thus would be able to apply all her current skill!

[The Glyphstone]

Or she'd die.

With Bang at near-Jaeger abilities already, you're taking a very risky gamble to try and Jaeger her in her prime. If it works, you get a better Jaeger, but if it doesn't, you've lost one prime fighter. Better to get all the use out of her that you can, then when she's worn out, Jaegerdraught her. That way, if it fails you didn't lose anything of value anyways, and if you get lucky your new Jaeger is restored to prime physical condition plus a lifetime of fighting experience as her baseline.

[eschmenk]

Another risk that's only been hinted at in the regular comic is that Bang is a pirate queen. It's been forgotten lately, but originally she was obeying Klaus as a means to reestablish her rule. (According to the Secret Blueprints, there is a island somewhere that Bang's mother used to rule. Klaus had promised to help her restore her fleet that she had intended to use to retake the island and wreak horrible vengeance.) If Bang became powerful enough and her desires to rule are rekindled, she might decide to take over the world herself or at least view the Heterodynes as competing rulers, rather than remain loyal to them.

[keybounce]

Hmm. In that case, I wonder if Bang knows where Skifander is...

[eee]

Hmm. In that case, I wonder if Bang knows where Skifander is...

She might know of it, but given how difficult it appears to be to get to it, and that Bang is a pirate and conqueror, not an explorer, I doubt she's interested in it or has gone there. Nothing of value to her.

And if she had gone and knew about the place, she might have said something to Zeetha during their cake party at the Corbettites. I think she was close enough to hear Klaus speaking Skifandarin to Zeetha during the Chicken Wagon battle, so if she knows the language she knows where Zeetha is from. But nothing was said, so either Bang doesn't know or Gil / Klaus told her not to bring it up.

And of course she also doesn't know who destroyed her pirate fleet. Complete mystery to her, that. I think she still intends to kill whoever did it, though. :smallbiggrin:

[eee]

Martellus may be a jerk, but he's a savvy jerk. This may not be going the way Zola expected.

[eschmenk]

Martellus may be a jerk, but he's a savvy jerk. This may not be going the way Zola expected.

Yes, it did seem as if she expected him to overreact and slaughter the revenants. The hope might have been that the MoP wouldn't realize that they were revenants and turn on Martellus, resulting in both sides being harmed.


I think she was close enough to hear Klaus speaking Skifandarin to Zeetha during the Chicken Wagon battle, so if she knows the language she knows where Zeetha is from.

That's far from clear. She was a pretty good distance away when Klaus told Zeetha to surrender and she could have easily missed that. We don't know where she was when Klaus first started talking to Zeetha in Skiff. I wouldn't draw any conclusions one way or another.

[eee]

And THAT'S why she wanted to find a lamp-post!

Spoiler, just to be on the safe side.

Now I wonder who Tarvek's grandfather was...

And we see why the MoP has hopes for Collette as his successor, she's already a cyborg. She has a autocratic view of Parisians, though. Not "These are MY people, please don't abuse them unless it's warranted or funny" but "My family has to rule these people". Rather French noble / the common rabble like.


That's far from clear. She was a pretty good distance away when Klaus told Zeetha to surrender and she could have easily missed that. We don't know where she was when Klaus first started talking to Zeetha in Skiff. I wouldn't draw any conclusions one way or another.

This is true. And it is all dependent on Bang knowing Skafandarian, to begin with. I'm still not sure she knows of the place, but I would not be surprised if Bang's island, Skifandar, and where-ever the Geisters are from are all connected in some way.

Although this being the Foglios, I'll probably be surprised at HOW they're connected...

[eee]

Oh, and by the way, I translate that as "One two three my cat is blue".

[Shining Wrath]

Oh, and by the way, I translate that as "One two three my cat is blue".

I agree, and "You sound just like your grandfather" is indeed TMI for poor Tarvek. Also, Collette's comment about "my family has to rule these people" has a very Lawful Neutral vibe to it IMNHO.

And if "Now then, I'm really not supposed to be driving Papa's city by myself" is not foreshadowing I miss my bet.

[SZbNAhL]

Now I wonder who Tarvek's grandfather was...

Judging by this page (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130705#.WIiZ2lzIsfM), I'm guessing he was the previous head of the family, probably some flavour of lord or prince. As to why Tarvek sounds just like him when he's talking about being flogged, well, unless he really hated his grandfather and resents the comparison, I think the "Yerk, I did not need to hear that" is an indication of the mental images Grandmamma is conveying.

[Rogar Demonblud]

First, let me just say that Collette is suddenly starting to scare me a little.

Second, since we're now about 2.5 years into the second half (which is projected to wrap in 2025), do y'all think we might be seeing something of a resolution to some hanging plotlines in this mess? I doubt anything will happen to Martellus (he's Tarvek's chew toy), but Andy might do Agatha a favor and fry Zola for her temerity (especially if he thinks she's a Heterodne).

Also, let me put a few quatloos on The Master being the one to give Andy a reality check that won't bounce. They used to know each other, it seems.

[eschmenk]

I've learned to not trust Phil's and Kaja's time estimates. They have often been far too short.

The MoP seemed to be foreshadowing his own demise. I don't know whether or not to trust that, but I wouldn't be surprised if he goes down. If he does, Collette may scare you more than a little. :smallbiggrin: (The way she's already stepping up feels like it could amount to additional foreshadowing.)

It's rather formulaic, but maybe the MoP will wind up sacrificing himself in order to stop Andronicus.

[BannedInSchool]

The MoP seemed to be foreshadowing his own demise. I don't know whether or not to trust that, but I wouldn't be surprised if he goes down. If he does, Collette may scare you more than a little. :smallbiggrin: (The way she's already stepping up feels like it could amount to additional foreshadowing.)
Or the MoP could end up in Collette's body, as an accident with her plugging into a city sub-station while he takes over the whole shebang. Maybe she insists he take her body, or one or the other of them end up inhabiting the city. Just thinking of alternatives to the MoP being dead. And something happening to Collette would be a dramatic development as well.

[eee]

Where did THESE guys come from? It looks like they just teleported in...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Where did THESE guys come from? It looks like they just teleported in...

They're gargoyles. Therefore, they were sitting along the edge of the roof of the building.

GW

[Divayth Fyr]

It seems we could even see one slightly earlier. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170123)

[Shining Wrath]

Yes, it appears that the MoP can activate gargoyles sitting on the buildings of major nobles - at a minimum. And the nobles don't know it.

Sweet setup!

Also, that's a pretty serious case of the cavalry arriving. I wonder if Collette will abide by the "don't hurt them!" idea?

[Rogar Demonblud]

It gives a new meaning to 'Death From Above'. that's for sure.


I've learned to not trust Phil's and Kaja's time estimates. They have often been far too short.

The last time estimate they gave was for 2023. 2025 is from assuming the second half'll run a bit longer than the first.

[eschmenk]

And the nobles don't know it.

I suspect that many of them probably do, but can't do anything about it.


I wonder if Collette will abide by the "don't hurt them!" idea?

I hope so. She seemed to be pretty savvy and level-headed. Even if not, Seffie is hopefully on her side and hopefully would warn her if she was about to play into someone's hand. She might panic and overreact though. But this being GG, something will probably happen that will quickly make it a moot question anyway. :smallbiggrin:

[lord_khaine]

I suspect most of them just takes it as a fact of life in Paris. That the Masters mastery of the town is absolute. I guess it could even be a source of comfort for those living there.

[Shining Wrath]

"Disperse". I think at least some of those being dispersed are being DISPERSED - at least one spider got squashed, and one smoke knight lost his sword at a minimum. Getting stomped or kicked by one of those would be ... bad.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I went back and reread the last several months of updates, and am now certain that the two guys in jaeger costumes behind Jenka are Wooster and Boris.

Also, when Agatha and Friends arrived at the Library, they were told that the Lord High Conservitor had left to acquire an expert on the Other and Wasps. None of us twigged to the fact that the only person who fit that description hostile to the Other is...Tarvek.

[HandofShadows]

Love it how Tweedle is so arrogant that he thinks that the Master is there to support HIM! Boy, did he learn fast that wasn't the case. :smallbiggrin:

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, two faulty assumptions. One you mentioned. The other is that the Master is in control. Bad assumption, just with the Geisters and Revenants.

We know Collette's in charge of these gargoyles, though. And she may be willing to 'accidentally' squash Tweedle; perhaps for Seffie's sake--they seem to be friends, and Tweedle is very trying.

[geoduck]

Well, two faulty assumptions. One you mentioned. The other is that the Master is in control. Bad assumption, just with the Geisters and Revenants.

We know Collette's in charge of these gargoyles, though. And she may be willing to 'accidentally' squash Tweedle; perhaps for Seffie's sake--they seem to be friends, and Tweedle is very trying.

Seffie has never given the impression that she seriously wants Tweedle to die. If anything, she seems genuinely fond of the big oaf. And Collette's smart enough to know that.

[SZbNAhL]

We know Collette's in charge of these gargoyles, though. And she may be willing to 'accidentally' squash Tweedle; perhaps for Seffie's sake--they seem to be friends, and Tweedle is very trying.


Seffie has never given the impression that she seriously wants Tweedle to die. If anything, she seems genuinely fond of the big oaf. And Collette's smart enough to know that.

Plus the alternative is Tarvek, who would in all likelihood have her killed.

[multilis]

Plus the alternative is Tarvek, who would in all likelihood have her killed.
Tweedle plays rougher than Tarvek and was content to kill whoever was his rival and let the rival's followers switch to him.

Tarvek is just as good or better a rival for Agatha which if successful frees up Gil for Seffie.


I guess that Seffie sees Tweedle as better option (her brother who she could manipulate), but Tarvek as livable with diplomacy. Best option though may be to have someone else marry or otherwise remove Agatha and Gil takes storm king throne with Seffie as his bride or mistress.

[factotum]

Oh, that's interesting--Colette is not a Spark? How does the Master imagine she's going to take over his work if she isn't one?

[HandofShadows]

Maybe he thinks she can take over because she isn't a spark and is much more stable.

[geoduck]

He did say he had "hopes" with Collette, not that he was definitely planning to hand control over to her.

[factotum]

He did say he had "hopes" with Collette, not that he was definitely planning to hand control over to her.

We haven't seen anyone else who he might be grooming for the job, though, and he doesn't seem the type to put all his eggs in one basket unless he's reasonably certain said basket is solid and secure.

[slayerx]

Well this page answered some questions that have been nagging me. Neither seffie nor Colette are sparks. It bothered me because Gil had said he had not met any female sparks, and yet he hung out Colette, and i think its implied that he and seffie may have been aquinted. So neither of them being sparks is consistent.


Oh, that's interesting--Colette is not a Spark? How does the Master imagine she's going to take over his work if she isn't one?

I'm guessing the reason why the master has not found a suitable heir is because NONE of his children are sparks. For some reason he's been having trouble siring a proper sparky offspring; Colette is simply the best of all his non-sparky offspring. He may also have hopes that, at her young age, there's still a chance she might breakthrough.

Its not so much the case that he's putting all his eggs in one basket, but that every other basket broke and he only has one left. He tried and failed to turn each of his children into a successor and colette is so far the best he's got.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

We haven't seen anyone else who he might be grooming for the job, though, and he doesn't seem the type to put all his eggs in one basket unless he's reasonably certain said basket is solid and secure.

It might be that the Master wants his successor to be both a spark (because you need to be one to run the city) and his daughter (believing, say, that women are more stable, and that running the city is the family business). This would explain the large number of children he has, and why he has to hold on - we know sparks are unpredictable, and more common in males.

GW

[HandofShadows]

Well this page answered some questions that have been nagging me. Neither seffie nor Colette are sparks. It bothered me because Gil had said he had not met any female sparks, and yet he hung out Colette, and i think its implied that he and seffie may have been aquinted. So neither of them being sparks is consistent.

Sefie being aquinted with Gil has been stated a number of times. She more or less grew up with him on Castle Wolfenbach.

[eschmenk]

I can't help but remember that Agatha didn't think she was a spark at first. Yes, her locket suppressed it at first, but she was in denial even after she broke through. On this page, Tarvek was apparently about to say, "If you can control the city, you must be a spark," then he later seemed to imply that she could have controlled the city if it hadn't been interfered with. I don't know, but I wouldn't completely give up on the idea that she is a spark, but no one has figured it out yet. It may be because she's psyching herself out too much because she's comparing herself to her father.

Either way, the MoP has already gotten things set up to the point that the city systems ran without him having to change things. As long as no one else interfered, Collette could probably handle things as is. We've seen non-sparks be very effective: Zola and Seffie come to mind.


Sefie being aquinted with Gil has been stated a number of times. She more or less grew up with him on Castle Wolfenbach.

I'm pretty sure that there has never been anything to indicate that Seffie more or less grew up with Gil on Castle Wulfenbach. They did know each other in Paris, though.

[Shining Wrath]

I have to wonder if women can manifest a different sort of power than Sparkyness, and because of social biases it isn't studied or even commonly acknowledged?

Having said that, Beausoliel is about to take on Tarvek in a contest of sneaky Spark power. Right up until the Master himself plugs in, at which point things get real.

[eschmenk]

Having said that, Beausoliel is about to take on Tarvek in a contest of sneaky Spark power. Right up until the Master himself plugs in, at which point things get real.

I thought the Master already plugged in (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170111).

[eee]

I'm pretty sure that there has never been anything to indicate that Seffie more or less grew up with Gil on Castle Wulfenbach. They did know each other in Paris, though.

And it's clear, she's been pilfering his mail for years.


I thought the Master already plugged in (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170111).

He did, but apparently it is taking him some time to reorient himself to Paris and shove Beausoliel out. Or perhaps the traitorous professor is stronger than he seemed and they're waging war for control throughout Paris' subsystems.

[slayerx]

Sefie being aquinted with Gil has been stated a number of times. She more or less grew up with him on Castle Wolfenbach.

I do not recall it ever being stated that Seffie was on castle wulfenbach. The only connection i recall between her and gil is her comment about her stealing Gil's mail since she was a child. That would line up with Gil not receiving mail from wulfenbach students while he was in paris. I feel like the implication is that she met Gil in paris.


I have to wonder if women can manifest a different sort of power than Sparkyness, and because of social biases it isn't studied or even commonly acknowledged?


I was always under the impression that the reason there are so few female sparks is because Tarvek's father was kidnapping them and killing them in his attempt to bring back lucrezia. Judy told agatha that female sparks often "disappear" and Tarvek's sister mentioned that their father had use lucrezia's calling machine on many girls in his attempt to bring lucrzia back.

[HandofShadows]

Wow, people don't seem to be getting the clue here. Gil grew up on Castel Wulfenbach. The only way Sefie could ahve been stealing his mail while he was a child would be if SHE where there are well. Remember most children of important sparks/nobles were sent to Wulfenbach and she is just about Gil's age.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Gil wouldn't have been getting any mail on CW. Everyone he knew was living just down the hall.

He's also close to a decade older than Seffie, it seems, so they wouldn't have met before he was in Paris.

[eschmenk]

Wow, people don't seem to be getting the clue here. Gil grew up on Castel Wulfenbach. The only way Sefie could ahve been stealing his mail while he was a child would be if SHE where there are well. Remember most children of important sparks/nobles were sent to Wulfenbach and she is just about Gil's age.

She said "child" not "young child" or "little girl" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151030). Look back at how young Gil and Tarvek seemed to be in the Paris flashbacks. They obviously were not yet adults when they arrived in Paris. If Seffie is roughly the same age as Gill, as seems to be the case, she would have still been a child as well. There is no reason to think she began to steal Gil's mail any earlier than that.


Gil wouldn't have been getting any mail on CW. Everyone he knew was living just down the hall.
Yes. And no one knew he was anyone important, so he wouldn't have been getting mail from elsewhere. In both stories about his origin, he was supposedly an orphan taken in by Klaus, so it's not as if he would have had anyone off the castle to send mail to him. We do know that when Gil went to Paris, the mail Theo and friends sent to him from the castle didn't arrive, though.


He's also close to a decade older than Seffie, it seems, so they wouldn't have met before he was in Paris.
No. She would still be a child, so she wouldn't have said what she did, if she was that much younger. She seems to be roughly the same age as Gil.

[SZbNAhL]

She said "child" not "young child" or "little girl" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151013). Look back at how young Gil and Tarvek seemed to be in the Paris flashbacks. They obviously were not yet adults when they arrived in Paris. If Seffie is roughly the same age as Gill, as seems to be the case, she would have still been a child as well. There is no reason to think she began to steal Gil's mail any earlier than that.

Are you sure you didn't mean this (www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151030) page?

[slayerx]

Wow, people don't seem to be getting the clue here. Gil grew up on Castel Wulfenbach. The only way Sefie could ahve been stealing his mail while he was a child would be if SHE where there are well. Remember most children of important sparks/nobles were sent to Wulfenbach and she is just about Gil's age.

Seffie said she had been stealing Gil's mail since SHE was a child. And ofcourse what she means by "child" is up to her; some use the term litterally to describe anyone under the age of a pre-teen, while others use the term more liberally to describe anyone who is very young and inexperienced. We don't know how old Seffie is; Gil is currently about 24 years old, but seffie could be as young as 18. Gil was 18 when he was in paris; We don't know how old Seffie is, but if she were 12-14 years old at the time, she could have been young enough that she would consider herself "a child"

And as mentioned by others aboce, Gil was a nobody on castle wulfenbach and the only people he knew were his fellow students. He would not be recieving mail from anyone. Gil's missing mail would line up with him missing mail in paris.

[eschmenk]

Are you sure you didn't mean this (www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151030) page?

Well, I didn't mean a blank one. :smallredface: Thanks. I fixed the original link.


...but if she were 12-14 years old at the time, she could have been young enough that she would consider herself "a child"

If she had been under 20 or so, as long as she considers herself to be more mature now, she could have used the term "child." Don't rule out some hyperbole there.

ADDED:

Gil was 18 when he was in paris;
I think I remember thinking he left at age 18. Wasn't he there for more than one year, though? I was thinking it was more like him spending his high school years in college (including post graduate work) because he was so smart.

[dps]

I read it as that she was on the airship while Gil was in Paris. That leaves it unclean whether she was already there before he left.

[eschmenk]

I read it as that she was on the airship while Gil was in Paris. That leaves it unclean whether she was already there before he left.

I couldn't rule it out, but I rather doubt she was on Castle Wulfenbach at all as a child. Tarvek poo-pooed the idea that it would do any good to use the children in his family as hostages (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090918). I think Tarvek meant his extended family as he normally does, so it would have included Sephie and Martellus as having no value as hostages. If so, there would have been little reason for Sephie or Martellus to have been there. Beyond that, I get the impression Martellus's and Sephie's branch of the family was more remote than Tarvek's, so there would would have been less of a chance that Klaus could have forced those children to come to the castle even if he had wanted them there. Also, I doubt Tarvek would have wanted to be there so much if he had to deal with other members of his family there. :smallsmile:

I think would be especially unlikely for anyone from Tarvek's extended family to have been on Castle Wulfenbach after Tarvek was evicted. Tarvek's stunt would have warned Klaus about the dangers of allowing any children from that family to be on board, except maybe for those who were too young to do anything much.

As far as the possibility that Seffie arrived after Gil left and began stealing his mail, why would she do that? She wouldn't even know who he was. That seems very unlikely to me.

While I'm at it, I also doubt that Zola was ever living on the castle, either. Gil thought of her as just a dancer that he met in Paris.


Remember most children of important sparks/nobles were sent to Wulfenbach and she is just about Gil's age.
Just in case this confused DPS, this is another assumption, stated as a fact, that I don't think is supported by any particular evidence, either. We were told that most of the children aboard the castle were hostages; that doesn't mean that "most children of important sparks/nobles" were hostages and therefore aboard. Granted, Tarvek talked it up, but it might have had the best concentration of future rulers without having all that many of them depending on how scattered the others were.

Klaus was pragmatic. He would have weighed the costs and benefits of using someone as a hostage before doing so and there may have been more effective ways of apply pressure in some cases. In any case, there didn't seem to be very many children aboard, so either there weren't that many children to take, or there were many we didn't see, or Klaus didn't have the majority of them.

[SZbNAhL]

I couldn't rule it out, but I rather doubt she was on Castle Wulfenbach at all as a child. Tarvek poo-pooed the idea that it would do any good to use the children in his family as hostages (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090918).

And yet Tarvek himself was there. Regardless of whether or not it worked, we know that Klaus did have a Sturmvoraus on the Castle, and it stands to reason that when he banished one he would have picked up another.


Beyond that, I get the impression Martellus's and Sephie's branch of the family was more remote than Tarvek's, so there would would have been less of a chance that Klaus could have forced those children to come to the castle even if he had wanted them there.

I'm not quite sure where you're getting that from. Regardless, he only has to show up once with a couple of batallions and "ask nicely", the entire point of hostages is that he doesn't have to run off to remote places to fight local rulers every five minutes.


I think would be especially unlikely for anyone from Tarvek's extended family to have been on Castle Wulfenbach after Tarvek was evicted. Tarvek's stunt would have warned Klaus about the dangers of allowing any children from that family to be on board, except maybe for those who were too young to do anything much.

Tarvek's spying wasn't anything special; most of the hostages were engaged in espionage for their families. Klaus only "expelled" him because he was too close to finding out Gil's true parentage.


As far as the possibility that Seffie arrived after Gil left and began stealing his mail, why would she do that? She wouldn't even know who he was. That seems very unlikely to me.

Because she had a crush on him? Teenagers with crushes do weird stuff sometimes.


While I'm at it, I also doubt that Zola was ever living on the castle, either. Gil thought of her as just a dancer that he met in Paris.

She wasn't a Sturmvoraus; she's the daughter of one of the Mongfish sisters, who are a) not actually the rulers of anywhere and b) very unlikely to let Klaus know about any pregnancies.

[eschmenk]

Maybe I should point out that, in addition to Tarvek saying that holding members of his family hostage wouldn't keep them in line, they keep killing each other anyway. :smallsmile: It's not as if a threat to kill one of them would necessarily be a big deal! Heck, if Klaus got one as a hostage and threatened to kill him or her, the answer might be, "Please do!" Or maybe they would just send an agent in to kill the hostage first. :smallbiggrin:


And yet Tarvek himself was there. Regardless of whether or not it worked, we know that Klaus did have a Sturmvoraus on the Castle, and it stands to reason that when he banished one he would have picked up another.

Why would it stand to reason that Klaus would pick another if it didn't do Klaus any good to have one in the first place? :smallconfused: Please explain that logic! We don't know why Tarvek was there. Maybe Aaronev asked Klaus to educate Tarvek specifically. Why would Klaus pick someone to replace Tarvek in that case? :smallconfused: Even if it would have done some good for Klaus to have Tarvek there, who would Klaus have picked to replace him? Anevka? She was the only other Sturmvoraus child as far as we know, but why would he want her? I can't rule out that she was sent to Castle Wulfenbach for a while, but at least at some point she was back with her father in Sturmhalten. By your logic, it would stand to reason (somehow) that Klaus would replace Anevka with someone else, right? So who that have been if there weren't any other Sturmvoraus children? Or maybe your logic is a little off?

What you said just doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure why you are worrying about house Sturmvoraus so much anyway. We were primarily talking about Seffie, who's in house von Blitzengaard.


Tarvek's spying wasn't anything special; most of the hostages were engaged in espionage for their families. Klaus only "expelled" him because he was too close to finding out Gil's true parentage.
Be careful. You seem to be conflating two different ideas. That Tarvek was spying probably wasn't anything special. That wouldn't mean that the quality of his spying wasn't special, though. Klaus seemed to think Tarvek's family was unusually dangerous. There are probably reasons for that. And why was it that the other students weren't the ones who found the information? Maybe because Tarvek was better at finding it than them?

Beyond that, you are acting as if we know why Klaus expelled Tarvek. We only know what Tarvek said Klaus said and what Tarvek concluded the real reason was. We don't know if Tarvek was telling the truth or if he even knew the truth.


Because she had a crush on him? Teenagers with crushes do weird stuff sometimes.
:smallconfused: Why would Seffie have a crush on him in a hypothetical case where they probably never met? She probably wouldn't have even heard the fake Gil existed. Why would that cause her to have a crush on him and start stealing his mail? Yes, that hypothetical case was one in which she arrived after he left (and which I thought was very unlikely)! Look back at what you were replying to, if you missed it.


She wasn't a Sturmvoraus; she's the daughter of one of the Mongfish sisters, who are a) not actually the rulers of anywhere and b) very unlikely to let Klaus know about any pregnancies.
So? :smallconfused: Theo wasn't a Sturmvoraus. He is a son of a Mongfish sister. He was a hostage. I don't know what your point would be even if not for Theo. Your arguments a) and b) could apply just as well to Seffie as to Zola as far as we know, just in case you thought you were differentiating between them for some reason.

[Rockphed]

So? :smallconfused: Theo wasn't a Sturmvoraus. He is a son of a Mongfish sister. He was a hostage. I don't know what your point would be even if not for Theo. Your arguments a) and b) could apply just as well to Seffie as to Zola as far as we know, just in case you thought you were differentiating between them for some reason.

Theo was a test subject in Baron Wulfenbach's ongoing attempt to understand the spark.

[eschmenk]

Theo was a test subject in Baron Wulfenbach's ongoing attempt to understand the spark.

Well, that, too, and he was a student besides. And head boy, even! :smallsmile: But it's true that we don't actually know who among the students really were hostages. Sleipnir made it sound as if they all were, but how much should we read into that?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Theo was there because his father did something. When he and Sleipner show up in Mechanicsburg, he says they're trying to get together an expedition to find his father's lab.

Zola and Seffie aren't Sparks and aren't noble heirs (like Zulenna). Klaus has no reason to waste time on them.

[eschmenk]

This is taking too much of my time. This isn't fun or interesting for me. I'm getting nothing out of it. I'm going finish this comment and then stop for a while.


Theo was there because his father did something. When he and Sleipner show up in Mechanicsburg, he says they're trying to get together an expedition to find his father's lab.

I think you may be conflating causation with correlation. Two things can have something in common without one causing the other.


Zola and Seffie aren't Sparks and aren't noble heirs (like Zulenna). Klaus has no reason to waste time on them.

So? Most of the children probably weren't. Klaus could find reasons. He took Agatha, thinking she was not even a spark and merely the daughter of a blacksmith. He wouldn't know if the younger children would develop the spark or not. Maybe thats why Tarvek said, "Orphaned children of minor sparks were taken in by the Baron all the time." (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090916) Zola was from a very sparky family. Yes, girls usually don't develop the spark, but Zola would have had a far better chance of developing it than most girls. Apparently Seffie was from a sparky family, too. A commoner referred to Seffie as "My Lady." (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130826) She may not be a princess as far as we know, but she's apparently at least noble, and Grandma was referred to as "Highness," which would be royal, so Seffie isn't far from Zulenna's rank.

You are welcome to your opinions, but none of the arguments people have been making lately have taught me anything or convinced me of anything or seemed interesting, so I'm not sure why we are doing it. I think we're just talking past each other.

[Rockphed]

Well, that, too, and he was a student besides. And head boy, even! :smallsmile: But it's true that we don't actually know who among the students really were hostages. Sleipnir made it sound as if they all were, but how much should we read into that?

In one of my favorite books, Searching for Dragons, the main characters come across an ersatz Rumpelstiltskin who is really bad at it. See, he spins the straw into gold, the girl gets the boy, and he is supposed to drop hints that lead to her guessing his name so he gets the gold and she gets the kid. Unfortunately, wannabe princesses these days aren't as bright as they used to be, so none of the princesses ever guesses his name. He even changed his name to something easy to guess. So he has a whole hoard of children, most of whom are long-lost heirs to their parents' kingdoms. The hitch is that he cannot spin gold for either himself or people he is financially responsible for. So, he takes care of the kids until he runs out of money, and then he has to go spin gold again, which gets him another kid, which leads to him running out of money even faster. The main characters suggest he turn the whole thing into a school and figure out how to charge tuition.

My point is that there were probably a few uppity rulers who, after they rebelled, got their favorite kid taken away to force good behavior. The Baron probably started saying things like "what is it going to take to keep you in line, locking up your heir?" when he rolled in to a town. At some point, it just snowballed. I suspect that Zulenna was there because her family, who were a little uppity but not major sparks, asked to have her put there. Maybe Tarvek was the same way. As he said, all the future rulers of Europa were there. In some fashion, it might have been a status symbol among the rulers of Europa to have a child on Castle Wulfenbach.

[Nightsbridge]

In one of my favorite books, Searching for Dragons, the main characters come across an ersatz Rumpelstiltskin who is really bad at it. See, he spins the straw into gold, the girl gets the boy, and he is supposed to drop hints that lead to her guessing his name so he gets the gold and she gets the kid. Unfortunately, wannabe princesses these days aren't as bright as they used to be, so none of the princesses ever guesses his name. He even changed his name to something easy to guess. So he has a whole hoard of children, most of whom are long-lost heirs to their parents' kingdoms. The hitch is that he cannot spin gold for either himself or people he is financially responsible for. So, he takes care of the kids until he runs out of money, and then he has to go spin gold again, which gets him another kid, which leads to him running out of money even faster. The main characters suggest he turn the whole thing into a school and figure out how to charge tuition.

My point is that there were probably a few uppity rulers who, after they rebelled, got their favorite kid taken away to force good behavior. The Baron probably started saying things like "what is it going to take to keep you in line, locking up your heir?" when he rolled in to a town. At some point, it just snowballed. I suspect that Zulenna was there because her family, who were a little uppity but not major sparks, asked to have her put there. Maybe Tarvek was the same way. As he said, all the future rulers of Europa were there. In some fashion, it might have been a status symbol among the rulers of Europa to have a child on Castle Wulfenbach.

They were probably both student and hostage. Wulfenbach, for all his defiance of traditional noble lineage and power, followed an old tradition that they followed. It's keeping 'wards.' Wards, being children of powerful parents sent to live with and be taught by the person who has power over them. It serves many purposes. It is presented as an aspect of trust on behalf of the person who sends the wards, when it truth it is a quietly sinister hostage situation that could turn nasty if you defy me. In addition to that, wards were generally treated rather well, like family, and taught in the same way the families of those they were sent to were taught. The result of which being that the heirs to potentially hostile powers grew up under the power and care of their enemies, coming to think of them as friends, even family. Therefore, when it came time for them to take power, they would do so while thinking of their 'enemy' as a friend, and that attitude would shape their policy.

Imperial Japan did something similar to this and it led to an era of peace lasting hundreds of years. All heirs had to be taught in the school in the capital, and as such their view on the world was centered on how to make Japan as a nation better, rather than simply their region. After a few generations the Baron would likely have crushed the Storm King conspiracy completely, not through force or violence, but because everyone who was anyone of power had grown up under his protection, and would not wish to overthrow him . . .

[eee]

Ah yes, getting out the door just as the celebrations start is ALWAYS tricky.

That's it, Colette! Fnd it, isolate it, and ZAP that interference! I hope it gives Beausoliel such a pinch...

[factotum]

We don't know for sure that this "interference" is Beausoleil. It could be the Master, doing what he thinks is better for Paris than Colette.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It would be a Foglio Twist to have the Master and Collette fighting each other over who's controlling the system. Plus, it sets up Agatha to save the day again.

It's not called Elderly Genius, after all.

[keybounce]

So drunken, loud researchers who can't keep quiet are used to find the weaknesses in the security?

[Lethologica]

So drunken, loud researchers who can't keep quiet are used to find the weaknesses in the security?
Better than researchers who can keep quiet--the key is that you don't want anyone else to find out before you do, and if the hacking societies are loud enough that everyone (including you) finds out at the same time, that solves the problem. (This assumes you can fix the problem fairly quickly, an assumption that doesn't always hold up in the real world.)

[gooddragon1]

Would German be Agatha's natural language or English? Or something else?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Since Beetleburg was in what we call Romania, Romanian is probably her native tongue. But I'd assume she's familiar with several languages. A friend married a woman from the area (Moldavia) and she speaks about six languages. No Sparkiness required.

[eee]

We don't know for sure that this "interference" is Beausoleil. It could be the Master, doing what he thinks is better for Paris than Colette.

Well, no, we don't know. But why would the MoP be interfering? Colette's using the gargoyles to stomp on the obvious danger, the Geisters and their spiders. Martellus is actually helping, having his forces not only also target the Geisters too, but neutralize the revenants without hurting them. If the MoP wanted Martellus dead, there are better times to do it.

From Beausoleil's point of view, on the other hand, Martellus and his forces are messing up the invasion. And wiping them out while suborning Colette's efforts would be killing two birds with one stone. And besides, would the MoP be subtle, or not obvious? HIS in the overriding command in the system; just take control of the gargoyles away from Colette completely and use them to eliminate Martellus, rather than allow her to remain in partial control and keep deflecting his efforts. It's not certain it's Colette vs. Beausoleil. But it is more logical.



Would German be Agatha ' natural language or English? Or something else?

Let's see. The Boys got her back from the Giesters. Barry took her to Punch and Judy because what did HE know about raising a baby? They moved around until they found refuge in Beetleburg. It is possible Agatha doesn't have a native language, as such, but speaks several languages fluently.

[Shining Wrath]

Since Beetleburg was in what we call Romania, Romanian is probably her native tongue. But I'd assume she's familiar with several languages. A friend married a woman from the area (Moldavia) and she speaks about six languages. No Sparkiness required.

There's a reason why a region divided into small relatively powerless entities is referred to as "Balkanized".

[geoduck]

The GG print novels establish that Romanian is Agatha's native tongue and the official language of the Wulfenbach Empire. It's also noted that thanks to Dr. Beetle's teachings, she speaks numerous other languages.

[eschmenk]

Since Beetleburg was in what we call Romania, Romanian is probably her native tongue. But I'd assume she's familiar with several languages. A friend married a woman from the area (Moldavia) and she speaks about six languages. No Sparkiness required.

Actually, that area had several Germanic settlements (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_Saxons) located there. The city that Mechanicsburg seems to be based on was one of them.


The GG print novels establish that Romanian is Agatha's native tongue and the official language of the Wulfenbach Empire. It's also noted that thanks to Dr. Beetle's teachings, she speaks numerous other languages.
Err, OK. Of course, Agatha wasn't raised in Mechanicsburg. I think the people there probably speak mostly German, though. But Agatha doesn't speak with the Germanic accents that the Jaegers do and the townspeople (sometimes?) do. Maybe speaking with the mock German accents means they are speaking German, otherwise not?

[memnarch]

...
Err, OK. Of course, Agatha wasn't raised in Mechanicsburg. I think the people there probably speak mostly German, though. But Agatha doesn't speak with the Germanic accents that the Jaegers do and the townspeople (sometimes?) do. Maybe speaking with the mock German accents means they are speaking German, otherwise not?

That'd make sense to me, though I always took it to mean that the jaegers speak like they do because they're from a much older time and never bothered to try and learn the more modern speech style.

[Rogar Demonblud]

On a reread, I noticed that Tarvek seems to be giving Seffie a lesson in tradecraft. And it occurred to me that they're probably more alike (and more like Gramma) than either is like Tweedle.

[geoduck]

That'd make sense to me, though I always took it to mean that the jaegers speak like they do because they're from a much older time and never bothered to try and learn the more modern speech style.

I think it's the other way around, they've deliberately retained and cultivated their old accent.

[eee]

RE Agatha's native tongue: It occurs to me we may be looking at this wrong, and it may matter less where Agatha was raised than who she was raised by. Punch and Judy and Barry were from Mechanicsburg; I would assume they could speak whatever is spoken there, AND the language of whatever place they were in.

It also occurs to me this is academic, as no matter what language people are speaking in the comic, we're going to read it as English. Beetleberg, Castle Wulfenbach with people from all over the Empire and beyond, Strumhalten, Mechanicsburg, now Paris: All English. The only people who we don't understand are the Geisters. Which is too bad, as some of the things they've been saying look interesting...

[eschmenk]

RE Agatha's native tongue: It occurs to me we may be looking at this wrong, and it may matter less where Agatha was raised than who she was raised by. Punch and Judy and Barry were from Mechanicsburg; I would assume they could speak whatever is spoken there, AND the language of whatever place they were in.
Err, Punch didn't speak any language when he was raising Agatha. :smalltongue:

I suspect that they were hiding the fact that they were from Mechanicsburg, so Judy would probably have used Romanian as the normal language in the house. But, yes, it would make sense that Agatha was taught German as a second language.

I also agree that it's all academic. In the comic, it's as if there is only one universal European language and only languages as exotic as Skiff and Geisterspeak can't be understood by everyone.

[HandofShadows]

Actually when Gil was loopy and thought he was in Paris he was speaking French. So everything doesn't alwasy get translated.

[lord_khaine]

Kinda sad to see the Master actually is the same sort of horrid monster as most other sparks we have seen in charge. I mean, it certainly dont look like anyone were given the chance to escape before an entire building vanished.

[The Glyphstone]

Kinda sad to see the Master actually is the same sort of horrid monster as most other sparks we have seen in charge. I mean, it certainly dont look like anyone were given the chance to escape before an entire building vanished.

He was trying to get rid of them (and the discoveries they made) by vanishing their building. Giving them the chance to escape would have completely defeated the purpose of vanishing it in the first place.

[DavidSh]

Hungarian is also in common usage in Transylvania. The history of the arrival of the Heterodynes from the east has some resemblance to the arrival of the Hungarians.

[Kantaki]

Kinda sad to see the Master actually is the same sort of horrid monster as most other sparks we have seen in charge. I mean, it certainly dont look like anyone were given the chance to escape before an entire building vanished.

A tyrant ruling with a iron fist employs drastic measures to protect the base of his power.
How surprising.

I mean this is the guy who more or less tells visitors „break my rules and I turn you into a marionette for Paris’s theatres.”
This is actually surprisingly kind as far as drastic measures go.

Nothing the Baron wouldn't have done.
Just on a smaller scale.

I mean can you imagine what Martellus would do in Voltaire’s shoes?
Or Lucrezia for that matter?:smalleek:

[eschmenk]

He was trying to get rid of them (and the discoveries they made) by vanishing their building. Giving them the chance to escape would have completely defeated the purpose of vanishing it in the first place.

Yes, and it's not as if they wouldn't have known the risks they were taking. If they had any sense, they wouldn't have been looking for information that would make them a threat to the MoP. Of course, if they had sense, that would pretty much mean that they wouldn't have been sparky enough to find it the information in the first place. :smallbiggrin:

Also, who knows how much of stories like this are true? Compare that story, in which Tarvek hints that he left other students holding the bag (something Seffie would think was clever) and he didn't seem to have any problems with Gil, to the sob story he told Moloch and Violetta (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090921). They paint rather different pictures, don't they? :smallbiggrin:

To me, this is just some of the fun stuff that's in GG that I don't take too seriously. We already knew that the MoP tries to be benevolent, but he can be ruthless. Like Klaus, any threat to his power may be dealt with very harshly.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think Tarvek's point was less 'leaving them holding the bag' and more 'being smart enough to RUN!' Which is a point Seffie could stand to learn. As a wise man said (sang), "Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run."

[eschmenk]

I think Tarvek's point was less 'leaving them holding the bag' and more 'being smart enough to RUN!' Which is a point Seffie could stand to learn. As a wise man said (sang), "Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run."

I know what Tarvek's main point was. It wasn't what you said; it was that you needed to know when to run. (Yes, he was bragging some, too, but that seemed to be secondary.) However, I didn't say that I was trying to explain what Tarvek was saying. I assumed that readers could figure that out for themselves. Instead, I was pointing out that there were some very noticeable differences between the two stories. In one, Gil kept giving the bag to poor, innocent, uninvolved Tarvek and leaving him with it; in the other, although Tarvek didn't actually give other people the bag, he did leave them holding it. Do you understand now?

Oh, yeah, one more thing: Leaving someone else with the bag usually means that you were smart enough to get away (with the goods) in time. It's not a separate concept.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Now that you unpack that a bit, I can see your point. Although I believe Tarvek's point about being smart enough to run after you do something to piss off one of the most powerful Sparks in existence isn't leaving someone holding the bag. They've seen the craters after other people's 'successes', they should now to run too. If Sparks actually had survival instincts.

As towards the change in the lines about him and Gil, I can think of three interpretations.
1. He's referring to those adventures with Zola, not the code-cracking clubs
2. It's more of the personality drift we've seen in the writing
3. He's not trying to poison the well with Agatha

I lied, I thought of a fourth: He knows bad mouthing Gil to Seffie will get him curbstomped so thoroughly he'll pop out in Australia.

[eschmenk]

Three things: (Let's see if I can avoid imitating Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition)

1) Yes, I was using the expression about holding the bag loosely.

2) It's one thing to know that there will be a time when you need to run. It's another to know that the time is NOW!

3) An additional reason for the differences: back when Tarvek was telling the story to Violetta and Moloch, Tarvek was still trying to make Violetta underestimate him. It's not surprising that Gil won and Tarvek lost in those stories. He's not trying to make people underestimate him anymore, though.

4) The differences are probably due to multiple factors, not just one.

5) There probably is some truth to both sets of stories, but neither gives the full picture and either one or both could contain exaggerations. Even if something like the MoP disappearing the building and inhabitants was undeniably canonical, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think Phil and Kaja put things like that in the story to make it more fun; If they are upsetting, I think that's a sign that they are being taken too seriously.

6) And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope. DAMMIT!

[keybounce]

Panels 5 and 6 of the new comic make me think that Collette is actually a computer-AI spark.

[factotum]

Panels 5 and 6 of the new comic make me think that Collette is actually a computer-AI spark.

Um, why? She's literally said in the last couple of strips that she's *not* a Spark, and I don't see anything in those panels that suggest she might be an AI. Don't forget that Tarvek noticed the discrepancy in the machine input before she did, and he's definitely not an AI!

[Aidan305]

I can see from those two panels why all her friends expect that she's going to become a spark some day though. That's some seriously sparky talk going on there.

[Shining Wrath]

Yeek, indeed. Daddy is angry. Daddy can make people vanish, and does.
Collette has figured out how Beausoliel hides in the subsystems. It sounds as though all the Master need do is reboot from a clean backup, so to speak.

[lord_khaine]

Now that you unpack that a bit, I can see your point. Although I believe Tarvek's point about being smart enough to run after you do something to piss off one of the most powerful Sparks in existence isn't leaving someone holding the bag. They've seen the craters after other people's 'successes', they should now to run too. If Sparks actually had survival instincts.

Thats the hypocrisy i pointed out though. The Master allows people to examine his systems because it help figuring out weaknesses in them. But prombtly vanishes those that actually succeed in finding anything.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't see anything hypocritical about it. If anything, it's generous of him to spare the ones who fail to discover anything meaningful, rather than just pre-emptively killing anyone who tries just in case. It's not like he encourages or pays them.

[lord_khaine]

Now that you unpack that a bit, I can see your point. Although I believe Tarvek's point about being smart enough to run after you do something to piss off one of the most powerful Sparks in existence isn't leaving someone holding the bag. They've seen the craters after other people's 'successes', they should now to run too. If Sparks actually had survival instincts.

Thats the hypocrisy i pointed out though. The Master allows people to examine his systems because it help figuring out weaknesses in them. But prombtly vanishes those that actually succeed in finding anything.
Had he just plain forbidden anyone from attempting anything then i would just had though him harsh. Even though it also does seem to pick off a few civilians.

But so far the only fair ruler we have seen in action is Klaus. And i guess partly Agatha though she were mostly busy.

[eschmenk]

Um, why? She's literally said in the last couple of strips that she's *not* a Spark, and I don't see anything in those panels that suggest she might be an AI. Don't forget that Tarvek noticed the discrepancy in the machine input before she did, and he's definitely not an AI!

However, in the second panel: "tch— You're thinking organically." That hints that Collette doesn't think organically. Collette was psyching herself out earlier, so she wasn't working at her full potential. Beyond that, although we can't be sure what she managed to figure out because she didn't explain much of it, but it seemed as though she was at least one step ahead of Tarvek. What Tarvek was figuring out wasn't very important, so Collette just started ignoring him and figured out things for herself, while Tarvek gave up and talked to Seffie. Tarvek was more vocal about what he was figuring out, but it doesn't mean that he was doing better.

[Shining Wrath]

I think it is possible that Collette is not a Spark - merely a plain ordinary garden variety genius, whose intellect can be applied to multiple types of problems, including ones that don't particularly interest her. And also possibly including social skills and figuring out how people think, which is often a deficiency in Sparks (Baron Wulfenbach and the Master may be exceptions).

[Rogar Demonblud]

Thats the hypocrisy i pointed out though. The Master allows people to examine his systems because it help figuring out weaknesses in them. But prombtly vanishes those that actually succeed in finding anything.

Well, it's not like they signed NDAs.

Plus, governments make people who cross lines disappear all the time. Usually into some form of prison. The French even have a phrase for it. Pour encourager les autres, roughly translated as 'so others get the right idea'.

[eschmenk]

Well, it's not like they signed NDAs.

Plus, governments make people who cross lines disappear all the time. Usually into some form of prison. The French even have a phrase for it. Pour encourager les autres, roughly translated as 'so others get the right idea'.

And sometimes gangsters disappear into witness protection programs and sometimes black-hat hackers disappear and become white-hat hackers working with the government or whatever and sometimes spies disappear...

What the MoP is doing is analogous to the cat and mouse games that often occur in the real world. Governments know the other side has spies. They will let them operate and try to keep an eye on them. They only react if they catch them going too far. The same sort of thing happens with hackers in a lot of cases.

[halfeye]

And sometimes gangsters disappear into witness protection programs and sometimes black-hat hackers disappear and become white-hat hackers working with the government or whatever and sometimes spies disappear...

Jimmy Hoffa ...

[Rockphed]

Jimmy Hoffa ...

Is currently building an interstellar empire. He hasn't figured out how to get home yet.

[lord_khaine]

Plus, governments make people who cross lines disappear all the time. Usually into some form of prison. The French even have a phrase for it. Pour encourager les autres, roughly translated as 'so others get the right idea'.

Yeah.. horrible goverments with no regard to human rights. Cant see what that has to do with anything though.


What the MoP is doing is analogous to the cat and mouse games that often occur in the real world. Governments know the other side has spies. They will let them operate and try to keep an eye on them. They only react if they catch them going too far. The same sort of thing happens with hackers in a lot of cases.

Not quite. This is A) civilians. and B) Something that has not been outlawed.

[Kantaki]

I'm kinda assuming that the entity Collette discovered is in fact the MoP, what with her observation that its focus is shifting being immediately followed by her father scolding her.

On the way he deals with people Sparks that learn too much about his secrets, well he has to do something.
Making very clear that poking certain aspects of his city will lead to... unfortunate consequences is most likely slightly more effective than telling them not to.

Besides, he is still a Spark.
Somewhat over the top reactions are to be expected.

More importantly, Tarvek, Gil and the Clank-guy kinda prove you can avoid the consequences if you are clever and quick enough.
So I guess it is more like natural selection for mad scientists than a punishment.:smallamused:

[Shining Wrath]

While the building has disappeared, that does not mean everyone inside is dead. They could be beneath the streets, surrounded by police clanks, and being led off to have their brains cleaned.

Which is more tyrannical - not allowing anyone into Paris who can understand how the place works, or eliminating (various ways) those who understand too much?

[Lethologica]

I'm kinda assuming that the entity Collette discovered is in fact the MoP, what with her observation that its focus is shifting being immediately followed by her father scolding her.
Colette has explicitly discovered more than one entity. The second, omnipresent one is the MoP. The first one may be Beausoleil.

[halfeye]

Colette has explicitly discovered more than one entity. The second, omnipresent one is the MoP. The first one may be Beausoleil.
Is kastle Heterodyne still in there somewhere?

[eschmenk]

Is kastle Heterodyne still in there somewhere?

He completely removed himself from the Paris systems when the MoP demanded that. However, the last thing we knew is that he was driving one of the child catchers, so he may have been back in, but only in a very limited sense. Alternatively, he removed the child catcher from the systems, in which case he wouldn't be. Further, even if he didn't remove the child catcher from the systems, although Colette possibly could have noticed him, unless he went a lot further than that since then, I doubt she would have.


Not quite. This is A) civilians. and B) Something that has not been outlawed.

A) Hackers and spies can't be civilians?
B) Why would you say it's not outlawed? The disappearances made it seem pretty outlawed to me. :smallamused: Even if a rule is enforced situationally or sporadically, it still exists.

[halfeye]

He completely removed himself from the Paris systems when the MoP demanded that. However, the last thing we knew is that he was driving one of the child catchers, so he may have been back in, but only in a very limited sense. Alternatively, he removed the child catcher from the systems, in which case he wouldn't be. Further, even if he didn't remove the child catcher from the systems, although Colette possibly could have noticed him, unless he went a lot further than that since then, I doubt she would have.



A) Hackers and spies can't be civilians?

They can, and sometimes are, but the laws are different, the Geneva conventions don't apply to civilians firing on troops, they can be in much more trouble than foreign troops would be.


B) Why would you say it's not outlawed? The disappearances made it seem pretty outlawed to me. :smallamused: Even if a rule is enforced situationally or sporadically, it still exists.
Laws are published, if it's a secret rule, it's not a law.

[Rockphed]

While the building has disappeared, that does not mean everyone inside is dead. They could be beneath the streets, surrounded by police clanks, and being led off to have their brains cleaned.

Which is more tyrannical - not allowing anyone into Paris who can understand how the place works, or eliminating (various ways) those who understand too much?

I suspect that he doesn't disappear people who are simply studying things. What he does is disappear people who try to actively take control. This is probably why he was so insistent that Agatha remove the Castle from the city as soon as possible. His city is, in many ways, a lot like Mechanicsburg, though without an actual AI controlling it.

[Shining Wrath]

Ah, it's nice to see father-daughter bonding moments. "Yesssss ....".

I am looking forward to observing.