The cost of prestige classes

[Little boy]

If they ever do actual prestige classes for 5e, how do you think they would work in the prerequisite features? The system lacks a lot of the flexibility they older systems had so hard numbers for skills and stats would be quite difficult. Personally, I would love to see RP prerequisites only. Something agreed upon by DM and player. I love that the assassin had to murder someone in 3.5. The skills needed seemed silly for a lot of the stuff. What do you think would be best to give the flavor and feel for these prereqs in 5e

[Capn Charlie]

If they ever do actual prestige classes for 5e, how do you think they would work in the prerequisite features? The system lacks a lot of the flexibility they older systems had so hard numbers for skills and stats would be quite difficult. Personally, I would love to see RP prerequisites only. Something agreed upon by DM and player. I love that the assassin had to murder someone in 3.5. The skills needed seemed silly for a lot of the stuff. What do you think would be best to give the flavor and feel for these prereqs in 5e

Wizards has already showed us what a prestige class might look like. I wasn't overly impressed, and was kind of glad to see them go. Since new 5e feats are so much bigger than 3.x, I was a fan of just having archetypes and feats with pre-requisites fill the role of prestige classes.

I would link you, but cannot yet. Google "unearthed arcana rune caster".

[MinotaurWarrior]

The main wedges I'd expect beyond what we saw in the UA are, roughly in order extra attack, spell slots, weapon / armor / tool proficiencies, HD size, knowledge of specific spells, total bonus to a skill check, cantrips known, background, race, HP total.

So, for example, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a PRC like "Battle Herald" with the pre-req "STR 13, Extra Attack" or "Loremaster" With the pre-req "Int 13, at least one 3rd level spell slot."

[Lombra]

I think that proficiency in skills, saving throws and proficiency bonus will be the general prerequisite system if they will ever add prestige classes

[Little boy]

I think that proficiency in skills, saving throws and proficiency bonus will be the general prerequisite system if they will ever add prestige classes

That would be incredibly hard to do. Without feats, there is not much of a way tocgrt additional skills save a few mutliclasses. Saving throws are even worse. They didn't include enough in game flexibility to really do these

[Grod_The_Giant]

Looking at the Rune Smith, I note that they used "character level 5" as a more direct form of level-gating than 3.5's skill ranks. Honestly, I'd expect that to be a standard rule for PrCs-- you must be level 5 to enter, you must meet the usual ability score minimums for multiclassing, and you must meet a special roleplaying prerequisite.


That would be incredibly hard to do. Without feats, there is not much of a way tocgrt additional skills save a few mutliclasses. Saving throws are even worse. They didn't include enough in game flexibility to really do these
The right background can get you just about any skill even without customization options, multiclassing Bard can do the same, and the Skilled feat exists. I don't think it's too unreasonable to assume that such things are options if prestige classes are in use.

[Little boy]

The right background can get you just about any skill even without customization options, multiclassing Bard can do the same, and the Skilled feat exists. I don't think it's too unreasonable to assume that such things are options if prestige classes are in use.

But you lose the fluidity of becoming something more. It would be worse than 3.5 where if you don't pick the right background for what you want, you probably will never get to prestige.

[Doug Lampert]

But you lose the fluidity of becoming something more. It would be worse than 3.5 where if you don't pick the right background for what you want, you probably will never get to prestige.

Yeah, 3.x prestige class prerequisites were garbage, just say no.
Early entry tricks abounded, builds had to be planned in advance, and if someone ACTUALLY had a series of adventures that made a prestige class a thing their character would logically enter then the odds were they'd not qualify.

The Arcane Archer needs weapon focus, on a build that has better things to do with its feats even if specializing in archery and magic. The blackguard needs three specific feats (mounted type former paladins need not apply) and 5+ ranks in a skill that's cross-class for the obvious entry point.

Just bad.

If the class isn't overpowered then it doesn't need any prerequisites at all to "balance" it. If it gives abilities that need a level gate then a level prerequisite is more than adequate to cover that.

[Gwendol]

Yeah, 3.x prestige class prerequisites were garbage, just say no.
Early entry tricks abounded, builds had to be planned in advance, and if someone ACTUALLY had a series of adventures that made a prestige class a thing their character would logically enter then the odds were they'd not qualify.

The Arcane Archer needs weapon focus, on a build that has better things to do with its feats even if specializing in archery and magic. The blackguard needs three specific feats (mounted type former paladins need not apply) and 5+ ranks in a skill that's cross-class for the obvious entry point.

Just bad.

If the class isn't overpowered then it doesn't need any prerequisites at all to "balance" it. If it gives abilities that need a level gate then a level prerequisite is more than adequate to cover that.

True. Let's not open that can of worms, please. Besides, most of the prestige classes were absolute rubbish.

[Grod_The_Giant]

But you lose the fluidity of becoming something more. It would be worse than 3.5 where if you don't pick the right background for what you want, you probably will never get to prestige.
I'm not personally in favor of extensive mechanical prerequisites, no. But I think it's actually easier to get a new skill proficiency in 5e than it is to get, say, 8 ranks of two skills in 3.5.

[JellyPooga]

Prestige Classes, frankly, have no place in 5ed. Archetypes (or their similarly named alternatives, whether it be Druid Circle or Primal Path) already fill that role. Arcane Trickster, Bladesinger, Eldritch Knight...these are literal Prestige Classes ripped right out of 3rd edition. Want a PrC normally reserved for a particular class? Take 3 levels (usually) of that class and grab the Archetype. No early entry nonsense, no daft skill or feat prerequisites, no roleplaying conditions that will be ignored; no mess, no fuss. Archetypes are doing the job better than 3ed ever could.

[furby076]

Some of the 3.5 PRCs were nice. Yea, some were garbage (either way), but many had penalties to get in. For example, sacred exorcist of the silver flame was great in the abilities it gave your weapons, but your spellcasting suffered for it. So you gave a bit and got a bit. With careful thought, 5e can get PRcs that aren't obtuse.

Given that, I don't think it's necessary, but I think options are good. Let the players and DMs figure if they want the options

[Gwendol]

I firmly believe archetypes are a better way of handling character progression than PrC's.

[Vaz]

Yeah, 3.x prestige class prerequisites were garbage, just say no.
Early entry tricks abounded, builds had to be planned in advance, and if someone ACTUALLY had a series of adventures that made a prestige class a thing their character would logically enter then the odds were they'd not qualify.

The Arcane Archer needs weapon focus, on a build that has better things to do with its feats even if specializing in archery and magic. The blackguard needs three specific feats (mounted type former paladins need not apply) and 5+ ranks in a skill that's cross-class for the obvious entry point.

Just bad.

If the class isn't overpowered then it doesn't need any prerequisites at all to "balance" it. If it gives abilities that need a level gate then a level prerequisite is more than adequate to cover that.

The PreReqs themselves were, but not the process.

This edition has the benefit of being Keep It Simple Stupid, and hence I've intro'd friends and family to it. Doesn't make it any better for people wanting to have options and mechanical effects from some of the better PrC's, which allowed people the flexibility without simply multiclassing from Step 1 (such as Ur Priest, or Psionic Slayer, or Bear Warrior).

[Steampunkette]

I hope we never see them in 5e.

I actually got really nervous when I saw them in the UA and downvoted them, hard, in the survey.

[ApplePen]

3rd was highly modular, where you could take a bit of this and a bit of that and create a character to do almost anything. The base classes were just starting points, your workbench if you will. Pathfinder made the base classes more of a "you are this forever" by making prestige classes harder to get and less of a benefit in most cases.

Of course, you could port over 3.5 PrCs and then PF became 3.5 but with some house rules for grapple.

5e is even more singular, where PrCs don't even exist yet and you are your base class. Multiclassing can get you some good tricks but you aren't going for some PrC when you do it. Making a Battlemaster/Assassin so you can have a Pirate that fights dirty and with a lot of tricks is more roleplay than a PrC called "Pirate".

I won't be surprised if they make PrCs eventually, since 5e is supposed to play like "any previous edition" you want it to and right now it feels very much like AD&D but without THAC0.
(Although if I recall, two weapon fighting used to be godly and now it's great weapon fighting, so third won out there)

It'll be along in an eventual cash grab. It remains to be seen when and how good they'll be.