Feats for Tanks

[Ursus Spelaeus]

I have heard it said that tanks in 3.5 don't necessarily want to have very high AC, as that makes them less desirable as targets. That doesn't really sound right to me, so I aim to correct it.

High Profile
Prerequisite: Heavy Armor Proficiency, Wisdom 13
Enemies in your reach provoke attacks of opportunity from you when they make attacks against characters with lower AC than you.

Overshadow
Prerequisite: Heavy Armor Proficiency, Charisma 13
Allies within 10 feet of you have concealment (attacks against them have a 20% miss chance) if their AC is lower than yours.

[Jormengand]

Rewarding allies for having low AC is intrinsically a mechanic that I wouldn't want to play with. I don't think that the feats need it to be balanced either, because if you're trying to encourage enemies to attack you (in this case, by making it difficult to attack your allies while you're alive) then you're going to want high AC again anyway.

[Ursus Spelaeus]

Good point. Simpler effects anyway.

High Profile's effect should be fine without the lower AC clause, but what about Overshadow? Would that effect be too strong?

[Jormengand]

I see it as a relatively balanced feat, though I worry that it will largely only be taken by paladins because of the prerequisite. Fighters already need strength, dexterity, and constitution, as well as some intelligence. Forcing them to take charisma that they won't use is even more insulting. Also, this just strengthens the already annoying Paladin 2/Sorcerer 18 builds (Oh, what's that, all my allies have concealment and my enemies have no indication that I'm the one providing the effect? Splendid!).

[Ursus Spelaeus]

I can't really come up with a good reason for the Charisma requirement to be there anyway. I kind of just put it there on a whim. Heavy armor proficiency is uncommon enough, and puts the feat on the classes its supposed to go on anyway. Should be fine then?

[JBPuffin]

I can't really come up with a good reason for the Charisma requirement to be there anyway. I kind of just put it there on a whim. Heavy armor proficiency is uncommon enough, and puts the feat on the classes its supposed to go on anyway. Should be fine then?

You have to have a force of personality to convince people that you're a bigger threat than the guy throwing lightning at you.

[Ursus Spelaeus]

You have to have a force of personality to convince people that you're a bigger threat than the guy throwing lightning at you.

What if I made Intimidation skill ranks a requirement?

[Jormengand]

What if I made Intimidation skill ranks a requirement?

That's a good one. Barbarians will have the skill points to sink in that, and it's a class skill for them and fighters, who'll have a bit of a harder time (fewer skill points) but can probably afford to take intimidate as a skill.

[Ursus Spelaeus]

Cool beans. In that case, it will be easy to control what level this feat becomes available.
What would be an appropriate level for an effect like this?
Fighters and Barbarians aren't going to be very effective tanks until they can take a few hits, so no need for this to be available at level 1.

[Jormengand]

5 ranks for the first one and 7 ranks for the second one, or 7 for the first one and 11 for the second. The reason? It gives a pure-class fighter the feats one level early (level 2 and 4, or 4 and 8) due to their bonus feats, allowing them the edge on the barbarian at those levels before the natural barbarianness of the barbarian makes them better again.

[Ursus Spelaeus]

Good deal.

Now, I'm a proponent of the idea that feats should be re-balanced for more power through the use of scaling, so what do you think of this?

Overshadow
Requirement: Heavy weapon proficiency, Intimidation 7 ranks
Allies within 10 feet of you have concealment (attacks against them have a 20% miss chance).
Upgrade I: Intimidation 11 ranks
The miss chance becomes 30%.
Upgrade II: Intimidation 15 ranks
The miss chance becomes 40%.
Upgrade III: Intimidation 19 ranks
The miss chance becomes 50%.

*edit*

Another one.

The problem with Overshadow is that it rewards parties for clumping together around their tank, and that leaves them vulnerable to fireballs and things. So...

Dispersal
Requirement: Heavy armor proficiency, Jump 5 ranks
Allies within 10 feet of you have the benefits of Evasion (if they make successful Reflex saving throws against attacks that normally deal half damage on a successful save, instead they take no damage. Only allies wearing light armor or no armor gain the benefit of Evasion.)
Upgrade I: Jump 13 ranks
Allies within 10 feet of you have the benefits of Improved Evasion (as Evasion, and the allies take only half damage on failed Reflex saves. Helpless allies do not gain the benefit of Improved Evasion.)


*edit2*

It occurs to me that these are basically auras, like the PHB2 Knight. I haven't looked at the PHB2 in ages though.

[neriractor]

dispersal should probably start later, as you are giving evasion to all your party members at the same level the rogue gets it (unless that it what you intended).

[Ursus Spelaeus]

I did use the Rogue as a guideline for when the effect might be appropriate, but you are right that it steps on the Rogue's shoes a lot unless it comes online later.

[Kamai]

Good deal.
Dispersal
Requirement: Heavy armor proficiency, Jump 5 ranks
Allies within 10 feet of you have the benefits of Evasion (if they make successful Reflex saving throws against attacks that normally deal half damage on a successful save, instead they take no damage. Only allies wearing light armor or no armor gain the benefit of Evasion.)
Upgrade I: Jump 13 ranks
Allies within 10 feet of you have the benefits of Improved Evasion (as Evasion, and the allies take only half damage on failed Reflex saves. Helpless allies do not gain the benefit of Improved Evasion.)


I'm liking what I see of the ideas so far, although I think this one doesn't really scream how a heavy armor character would approach the problem. I'd still like to see the feat at Medium Armor Proficiency or Monk X, giving something that really fits in with both of those classes. Can I propose something that I feel is more Fighter tank that could do the trick?

Leap on the Bomb
Requirements: Heavy Armor Proficiency, BAB +4
You have generally learned where to step to absorb the worst of a spell or explosion to keep allies near you safe.
As a swift action, you can brace yourself to absorb away spells. Whenever you have allies within 10 feet, and are affected by a spell or non-constant effect that affects one or more allies, you roll any saving throws twice, taking the worst roll. Your allies within 10 feet of you gain 1/2 your BAB as a competence bonus against the same effect, and do not automatically fail the saving throw on a 1.

Allies that beat the DC by 10 or more under this effect are not affected by the spell, even if the save is normally Save:Half or Save: Partial.

Edit: Another note in general is that Clerics can take these feats just as well as the Fighter (if not better in the case of High Profile). Is that something that worries you?

[Morphic tide]

There's some attack forcing effects around 3.5 somewhere, I know... Why not grab some of those? Maybe a Will save keyed off Intimidate for the DC? Or Bluff... Basically, make it act a bit more like how tanks in WoW-based MMOs do. Force the enemies to attack you directly in some way.