Monk/Ranger Multiclassing?

[Fishyninja]

Hello All.

Currently playing a modified version of The Lost Mines of Phandelver as a Wood Elf Monk, this is a continuation from a quick one shot so our characters have hit level 3 and have chosen our Archetypes. My DM has allowed me to use a 'Way of the Long Death Monk' as it REALLY fits into the RP of the session!

Anyway I was thinking of dipping a few levels once I hit lv 5 or 6 as a monk, now from experience our DM, likes to give us, during encounters, hordes....so many hordes. So I was thinking with my Monk of taking 2 or 3 levels in Ranger for Favoured Enemy (Undead), Hunter's Mark (More damage is always nice), Duelling fighting Style, and Horde Breaker (Extra weapon attacks, on top the Extra attack I get as a Monk).

Thoughts, opinions?

[edit] I was also thinking ranger because as we have one in our party, other members are a warlock and a rogue, it makes sense the ranger could teach me a thing or two.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Ranger is a really good multi-class for monk. Give him the Dueling Fighting style for a little more damage from his monk weapons, Hunter's Mark, and yeah, you can do Horde Breaker but I personally think Colossus Slayer is more usable. You don't need more than 3 or 4 levels of Ranger.

[Foxhound438]

Ranger is a really good multi-class for monk. Give him the Dueling Fighting style for a little more damage from his monk weapons, Hunter's Mark, and yeah, you can do Horde Breaker but I personally think Colossus Slayer is more usable. You don't need more than 3 or 4 levels of Ranger.

^ pretty much this. I'd also generally use colossus slayer, as getting kills is generally more important than spread out damage (trash damage, in Overwatch terms), but in a situation where the hordes are big enough, I could see the other option being more valuable.

[djreynolds]

Its crazy... but I like archery style.

+2 to hit is big and a longbow is 1d8, that's good up to 11th level. It is still superior to any of your other ranged attacks. IMO, it really expands your abilities. You can shoot 150ft away someone else and then move and punch someone else and still FOB

Ranger offers some could spells, but many of them (pardon the PUN) key off of your bonus action such as hunter's mark, conjure barrage, lightning arrow... but are still very good to use. And you still have some good utility spells, such as cure wounds and you have the movement to get to teammates in distress quicker than the hill dwarf cleric with a speed of 25.

[Hakon]

maybe take a 1 level dip in druid for shillelagh to make your nunchucks hit with wisdom

[djreynolds]

maybe take a 1 level dip in druid for shillelagh to make your nunchucks hit with wisdom

Its not bad, but since you still have to pump dex for AC it may not matter in the long run.

[Hakon]

Its not bad, but since you still have to pump dex for AC it may not matter in the long run.

that is true, i don't have my rule book with me, were their serious negatives to wearing armour?
wandering if a wis/con build could work

[tkuremento]

that is true, i don't have my rule book with me, were their serious negatives to wearing armour?
wandering if a wis/con build could work

You don't gain the benefits of Martial Arts (your unarmed strike die, str or dex for monk weapons or unarmed strikes, and the unarmed strike as a bonus action if used monk weapon or unarmed strike), Unarmored Defense, and Unarmored Movement.

[djreynolds]

that is true, i don't have my rule book with me, were their serious negatives to wearing armour?
wandering if a wis/con build could work

It could work. If you took barbarian at level one... real easy to start with dex and con.... and just dump wisdom that way.

I have seen a monk built that way, 3 barbarian/17monk (17 for quivering palm) and some magic for wisdom stats.

[Lombra]

Its crazy... but I like archery style.

+2 to hit is big and a longbow is 1d8, that's good up to 11th level. It is still superior to any of your other ranged attacks. IMO, it really expands your abilities. You can shoot 150ft away someone else and then move and punch someone else and still FOB

Ranger offers some could spells, but many of them (pardon the PUN) key off of your bonus action such as hunter's mark, conjure barrage, lightning arrow... but are still very good to use. And you still have some good utility spells, such as cure wounds and you have the movement to get to teammates in distress quicker than the hill dwarf cleric with a speed of 25.

Longbow isn't a monk weapon so no martial arts :/
Edit: but it can work with a shortbow or even darts

[Fishyninja]

that is true, i don't have my rule book with me, were their serious negatives to wearing armour?
wandering if a wis/con build could work

At the moment My monk utilisies his walking (quarter) staff which is versatile soI can choose 1d6/8 based on one handed, two handed hits. I was thinking Duelling as it just increases my average damage. I used the standard array for AS and as I am a wood elf I get bonus to Dex and Wis (17 and 16 at the moment {I am currently level 3}) I also have some magic bracers that currently give me +1 to AC and attack rolls so my AC at the moment is 17 (if I recall).


Ranger is a really good multi-class for monk. Give him the Dueling Fighting style for a little more damage from his monk weapons, Hunter's Mark, and yeah, you can do Horde Breaker but I personally think Colossus Slayer is more usable. You don't need more than 3 or 4 levels of Ranger.


^ pretty much this. I'd also generally use colossus slayer, as getting kills is generally more important than spread out damage (trash damage, in Overwatch terms), but in a situation where the hordes are big enough, I could see the other option being more valuable.


Fair enough I was thinking Hordebreaker to allow again for a wider spread of damage but I think that the distance required for horde breaker may be too restrictrive and getting a definite 1d8, on top of a 1d6 and my attack roll is a good way to replenish the Temp HP I get from WOTLD.

It is interesting to note I did research this a little while ago and the general consensus was I should avoid it like the plague as Monk's and Ranger's don't mix. I personally beg to differ and I thank y'all for confirming that.

[Foxhound438]

It is interesting to note I did research this a little while ago and the general consensus was I should avoid it like the plague as Monk's and Ranger's don't mix. I personally beg to differ and I thank y'all for confirming that.

I have no idea who's saying monk/ranger isn't good. hunter's mark alone, when given to a monk, is a huge boost.

[Fishyninja]

that is true, i don't have my rule book with me, were their serious negatives to wearing armour?
wandering if a wis/con build could work


Ranger is a really good multi-class for monk. Give him the Dueling Fighting style for a little more damage from his monk weapons, Hunter's Mark, and yeah, you can do Horde Breaker but I personally think Colossus Slayer is more usable. You don't need more than 3 or 4 levels of Ranger.


I have no idea who's saying monk/ranger isn't good. hunter's mark alone, when given to a monk, is a huge boost.

I looked at some older threads on here, Reddit, ENWorld as well at it all seemed that Cleric or fighter would be best and I get that they most be the most optimised but like I sais I have a ranger in the party who I have bonded with quite well and it makes sense to me (from an RP stand point) for him to teach me some skills.

[Citan]

Hello All.

Currently playing a modified version of The Lost Mines of Phandelver as a Wood Elf Monk, this is a continuation from a quick one shot so our characters have hit level 3 and have chosen our Archetypes. My DM has allowed me to use a 'Way of the Long Death Monk' as it REALLY fits into the RP of the session!

Anyway I was thinking of dipping a few levels once I hit lv 5 or 6 as a monk, now from experience our DM, likes to give us, during encounters, hordes....so many hordes. So I was thinking with my Monk of taking 2 or 3 levels in Ranger for Favoured Enemy (Undead), Hunter's Mark (More damage is always nice), Duelling fighting Style, and Horde Breaker (Extra weapon attacks, on top the Extra attack I get as a Monk).

Thoughts, opinions?

[edit] I was also thinking ranger because as we have one in our party, other members are a warlock and a rogue, it makes sense the ranger could teach me a thing or two.
Ranger could be a very good complement indeed.
Contrarily to other opinion, I think Horde Breaker can be used often enough to be worth it.
If your DM allows it, Mariner Fighting Style is by far the best for you.
Dueling is not that important since you can use it only on Attack, unless you go dual-wielding (but in that case why go Monk? Why not take TWF Style?).
Hunter's Mark is extremely good with Monk. ;)

So, yes, Ranger 3 is a good idea. Dip after you get Monk 6 though. You want Extra Attack ASAP, having your strikes magical is always a great boon, and the 6th ability is often largely worth the action it costs (although, can undead be frightened?). ;)

[Fishyninja]

Ranger could be a very good complement indeed.
Contrarily to other opinion, I think Horde Breaker can be used often enough to be worth it.
If your DM allows it, Mariner Fighting Style is by far the best for you.
Dueling is not that important since you can use it only on Attack, unless you go dual-wielding (but in that case why go Monk? Why not take TWF Style?).
Hunter's Mark is extremely good with Monk. ;)

So, yes, Ranger 3 is a good idea. Dip after you get Monk 6 though. You want Extra Attack ASAP, having your strikes magical is always a great boon, and the 6th ability is often largely worth the action it costs (although, can undead be frightened?). ;)

Generally no, but we fight enough undead for it to be worth it and if I recall at level six my base speed will be 45ft so I can run ahead of the group (as it is my thinking that they will be frightened too) terrorise the enemy and then run around kicking them and hitting them with a stick.

[Sir cryosin]

I hate to be a party pooper. But hunters mark isn't as good for a monk as you think. Hunters mark only works for weapon attacks so no bonus action unarmed strike or flurry of blows with hunters mark.

[Fishyninja]

I hate to be a party pooper. But hunters mark isn't as good for a monk as you think. Hunters mark only works for weapon attacks so no bonus action unarmed strike or flurry of blows with hunters mark.

Oh I understand that but for the moment as stated I am using a Quarterstaff which allows for 1d6/1d8 of damage, and at level 6 when I start dipping I'll be getting 1d6 unarmed damage.

So Say I manage to get a Monk 6/Ranger 3, as far as I understand from the Math I would be getting on average (utilising Duelling Fighting Technique) I would be getting 1d8's out of my QS (If I use it 1 handed), then the 1d6 from Hunter's Mark, then another 1d8 from my extra attack and if I take Colossus slayer, another 1d8 AND THEN another possible 1d6 from unarmed (2d6 if use flurry of blows).

My only other question is if I use HM can I use it again on my extra attack?

The dice rolls should break down like this....I think:

1d8 (Weapon) + 1d6 (Hunter's Mark), + 1d8 (Colossus Slayer {if taken}) + 1d8 (Extra Attack) + 1d6 (Hunter's Mark) + 1-2/d6 (Unarmed strike)

With a potential of 42-48 damage in a turn?

[tieren]

I would be getting 1d8's out of my QS (If I use it 1 handed), t

My only other question is if I use HM can I use it again on my extra attack?



I believe QS 1-handed is 1d6, unless its a monk weapon thing I don't understand.

HM gets added to all of your attacks on the target that is affected. In a horde situation the issue is you will need to use your bonus action to transfer the mark to a new target. If you are fighting a bunch of low hp mooks, you may be better off just using the bonus action to attack another one rather than transfering the mark.

[Fishyninja]

I believe QS 1-handed is 1d6, unless its a monk weapon thing I don't understand.

HM gets added to all of your attacks on the target that is affected. In a horde situation the issue is you will need to use your bonus action to transfer the mark to a new target. If you are fighting a bunch of low hp mooks, you may be better off just using the bonus action to attack another one rather than transfering the mark.

Yes normally a staff is 1d6, one handed but if I take the Duelling Fighting Technique at levle 2 in Ranger it gives a +2 to damage rolls when using a weapon in 1 hand, therefore my 1 handed attacks are 1d8 (as well as 2 handed).

Ok so for example I cast Hunters mark, on an enemy, attack them with staff, hit they take the staff damage and hunters mark, because I am a monk would I then be able to follow up with the single unarmed attack? Or is that counted as a bonus action?

If not I would assume I could repeat the above technique for my extra attack (when I hit Monk 5)?

[MinotaurWarrior]

Never MC before 5 as a martial.

Ranger 1, for favored enemy damage, is a very solid choice in appropriate campaigns. Dueling FS gives +1.5 Damage per QS attack until monk level 11. Hunter's mark is pretty much only worth it if you're sure you're going to be attacking the same enemy for two / three rounds. Longstrider is useful for kiting.

Especially as Long Death, I'd seriously consider going Beastmaster over other archetype options. Beast attacks are less conditional than either hordebreaker or deep stalker. In particular, the level three attack (your companion attacking on its turn) still works when you use your action to activate your fear aura. And, if you go all the way to 5 on both classes, you can get up to six attacks (Extra Attack, Flurry, Coordinated attack, beast attack on its turn).

[tkuremento]

Yes normally a staff is 1d6, one handed but if I take the Duelling Fighting Technique at levle 2 in Ranger it gives a +2 to damage rolls when using a weapon in 1 hand, therefore my 1 handed attacks are 1d8 (as well as 2 handed).

Ok so for example I cast Hunters mark, on an enemy, attack them with staff, hit they take the staff damage and hunters mark, because I am a monk would I then be able to follow up with the single unarmed attack? Or is that counted as a bonus action?

If not I would assume I could repeat the above technique for my extra attack (when I hit Monk 5)?

1d6+2 =/= 1d8 :| Because on the former 3 is the lowest and on the latter 1 is still the lowest.

[Fishyninja]

1d6+2 =/= 1d8 :| Because on the former 3 is the lowest and on the latter 1 is still the lowest.

Ok I feel a tad stupid....I do not understnad what you mean.

[Fishyninja]

Never MC before 5 as a martial.

Ranger 1, for favored enemy damage, is a very solid choice in appropriate campaigns. Dueling FS gives +1.5 Damage per QS attack until monk level 11. Hunter's mark is pretty much only worth it if you're sure you're going to be attacking the same enemy for two / three rounds. Longstrider is useful for kiting.

Especially as Long Death, I'd seriously consider going Beastmaster over other archetype options. Beast attacks are less conditional than either hordebreaker or deep stalker. In particular, the level three attack (your companion attacking on its turn) still works when you use your action to activate your fear aura. And, if you go all the way to 5 on both classes, you can get up to six attacks (Extra Attack, Flurry, Coordinated attack, beast attack on its turn).

I'll look into beastmaster a bit more! I'll probabaly avoid longstrider as I am a Woodelf with Base 35ft speed and at present 45ft due to unarmoured movement!

[Fflewddur Fflam]

I hate to be a party pooper. But hunters mark isn't as good for a monk as you think. Hunters mark only works for weapon attacks so no bonus action unarmed strike or flurry of blows with hunters mark.

This is incorrect. Hunter's Mark DOES only work with weapon attacks but per the PHB errata on unarmed strikes, unarmed strikes ARE considered melee weapon attacks (even though they aren't weapons!).

So, yes, Hunter's Mark will work with a monk's unarmed strikes.

[Citan]

I hate to be a party pooper. But hunters mark isn't as good for a monk as you think. Hunters mark only works for weapon attacks so no bonus action unarmed strike or flurry of blows with hunters mark.

I hate to be a poster pooper, but you are wrong. ;) Unarmed strikes are still technically "weapon attacks" for the sake of bonus and abilities relying on weapon attacks, whether those actually use a weapon or not. ;)

And with Monk's mobility, you will end with a pretty good chance of enabling it, and you end dealing much more damage than just extra 1d8 extra damage per turn, since it's a full weapon attack with Monk's empowered die (1d10+DEX).

It also means another chance at using Stunning Strike on an enemy. ;)
That is why is it in many occasions strictly better than Colossus Slayer.

[Fishyninja]

This is incorrect. Hunter's Mark DOES only work with weapon attacks but per the PHB errata on unarmed strikes, unarmed strikes ARE considered melee weapon attacks (even though they aren't weapons!).

So, yes, Hunter's Mark will work with a monk's unarmed strikes.


I hate to be a poster pooper, but you are wrong. ;) Unarmed strikes are still technically "weapon attacks" for the sake of bonus and abilities relying on weapon attacks, whether those actually use a weapon or not. ;)

And with Monk's mobility, you will end with a pretty good chance of enabling it, and you end dealing much more damage than just extra 1d8 extra damage per turn, since it's a full weapon attack with Monk's empowered die (1d10+DEX).

It also means another chance at using Stunning Strike on an enemy. ;)
That is why is it in many occasions strictly better than Colossus Slayer.

So to be sure I am reading this correctly if I took Ranger and got Hunter's mark I could use it for either my weapon or my martial arts? *crosses fingers*

[Tanarii]

Longbow isn't a monk weapon so no martial arts :/
Edit: but it can work with a shortbow or even darts
Doesn't Martial Arts require a melee attack with a Monk weapon?

Or is it that Monk weapons are melee simple weapons?

I'm fairly sure you can't use Martial Arts with Darts, but can with a thrown Dagger, so I'm assuming it's the latter.

[Fishyninja]

Doesn't Martial Arts require a melee attack with a Monk weapon?

Or is it that Monk weapons are melee simple weapons?

I'm fairly sure you can't use Martial Arts with Darts, but can with a thrown Dagger, so I'm assuming it's the latter.

Pg 78 of PHB

At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.

You are correct, thrown weapons do not count as Monk Weapons.

[tkuremento]

Ok I feel a tad stupid....I do not understnad what you mean.

This is what I mean:


normally a staff is 1d6, one handed but if I take the Duelling Fighting Technique at levle 2 in Ranger it gives a +2 to damage rolls when using a weapon in 1 hand, therefore my 1 handed attacks are 1d8

1d6 + 2 isn't 1d8

[Fishyninja]

This is what I mean:



1d6 + 2 isn't 1d8

Ah that makes more sense, however it does have the potential to have a base damage of 8? If I roll a 6.....correct?

[Fflewddur Fflam]

So to be sure I am reading this correctly if I took Ranger and got Hunter's mark I could use it for either my weapon or my martial arts? *crosses fingers*

Correct. Here's the synergy between Monk and Ranger:

1) Hunter's Mark works with your unarmed strikes since they are melee "weapon attacks".

2) Dueling Fighting Style won't work with your unarmed strikes since they are not considered a weapon. They will however work with any weapon you are wielding with one hand, and remember that your martial arts weapon damage can replace the damage of any monk weapon (i.e. a 11th level monk can do 1d8 damage with a dagger, not just 1d4), so you can get +2 to any monk weapon you wield with one hand.

I noticed in one of your posts above that you were asking about the math of it with a quarterstaff compared to wielding a quarterstaff with two hands and it's better. Because a Qstaff with dueling is going to be 3.5 + 2= 5.5 ave. damage before your Dex mod while wielding a Qstaff two-handed is going to be 4.5 ave. damage before your Dex mod.

3) Colossus Slayer or Hordebreaker can both be triggered by an unarmed strike since it is a "weapon attack".

[tkuremento]

Ah that makes more sense, however it does have the potential to have a base damage of 8? If I roll a 6.....correct?

1d6 has 6 outcomes, so a 6 is 1 in 6. 1d8 has 8 outcomes, so a 8 is 1 in 8. One is statistically more likely to get maximized 1d6. Also even if you only roll a 1 you'd get a +2 and get 3. On the 1d8 you can just get a 1.

[Fishyninja]

Correct. Snip
[QUOTE=tkuremento;21544518]1d6 has 6 outcomes, so a 6 is 1 in 6. 1d8 has 8 outcomes, so a 8 is 1 in 8. One is statistically more likely to get maximized 1d6. Also even if you only roll a 1 you'd get a +2 and get 3. On the 1d8 you can just get a 1.

Thank you both, you know I completely forgot about substituting the martial arts dice for weapon dice. So you are both saying with Duelling and using a quarterstaff (until my martial dice get higher) I would be getting a higher average damage with a 1 handed attack?

[Theodoxus]

It appears you believe that [1d6 (+2 from Dueling)] = 1d8, but it doesn't. Your 1 handed quarterstaff strike, unless you have shillelagh active, will still do 1d6 (plus your dex mod, plus and additional 2 from dueling).

The only ways a quarterstaff deals 1d8 base damage is through using it two-handed, casting shillelagh beforehand, or you're at least 11th level in monk.

[Fishyninja]

Thank you for the clarification. At present I have been using two handed attacks to increase the damage but if I multiclass I will go back to single handed use.

[Tanarii]

Pg 78 of PHB

At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.

You are correct, thrown weapons do not count as Monk Weapons.
A Dagger or Hand Axe or Light Hammer is always a melee weapon. Even if it's thrown.

Whereas a Dart is always a Ranged Weapon.

[Fishyninja]

A Dagger or Hand Axe or Light Hammer is always a melee weapon. Even if it's thrown.

Whereas a Dart is always a Ranged Weapon.

I am daft, thank you for the correction.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

[QUOTE=Fflewddur Fflam;21544510]Correct. Snip


Thank you both, you know I completely forgot about substituting the martial arts dice for weapon dice. So you are both saying with Duelling and using a quarterstaff (until my martial dice get higher) I would be getting a higher average damage with a 1 handed attack?

5.5 > 4.5

..... so yes.

[Fishyninja]

[QUOTE=Fishyninja;21544533]

5.5 > 4.5

..... so yes.

Again thank you, I suck at the maths of RPG's occasionally, that's why I spend my time on these forums asking daft questions!

[Maxilian]

maybe take a 1 level dip in druid for shillelagh to make your nunchucks hit with wisdom

Think it would be better to just take 4 lvls in Ranger and get Magic Initiate for Shillelagh and an extra goodie :P

[djreynolds]

Longbow isn't a monk weapon so no martial arts :/
Edit: but it can work with a shortbow or even darts

Right, so its 1d8. Better than anything you have until 11th when all your attacks hit 1d8.

And archery style adds +2 to all ranged attacks, like the dart, short bow and sling.

And you can shoot a bow with one attack, and then hold it in your hand and punch or kick once you hit 5th.

And with a ranger dip you have access to this weapon, which until 11th level is your best long ranged attack

ranged attacks just expand IMHO, how many people a monk can mess up. You can shoot a guy 150ft away and then still move 50 and punch his buddy in the face.

Ranger/monk could be the best skirmisher in the game.

[Fishyninja]

Right, so its 1d8. Better than anything you have until 11th when all your attacks hit 1d8.

And archery style adds +2 to all ranged attacks, like the dart, short bow and sling.

And you can shoot a bow with one attack, and then hold it in your hand and punch or kick once you hit 5th.

And with a ranger dip you have access to this weapon, which until 11th level is your best long ranged attack

ranged attacks just expand IMHO, how many people a monk can mess up. You can shoot a guy 150ft away and then still move 50 and punch his buddy in the face.

Ranger/monk could be the best skirmisher in the game.

I think what Lombra is getting at is that with Monk weapons after attacking you can follow up with a melee attack (martial arts), with your arugument, you would have to use your extra attack to use a martial arts move....correct?

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Right, so its 1d8. Better than anything you have until 11th when all your attacks hit 1d8.

And archery style adds +2 to all ranged attacks, like the dart, short bow and sling.

And you can shoot a bow with one attack, and then hold it in your hand and punch or kick once you hit 5th.

And with a ranger dip you have access to this weapon, which until 11th level is your best long ranged attack

ranged attacks just expand IMHO, how many people a monk can mess up. You can shoot a guy 150ft away and then still move 50 and punch his buddy in the face.

Ranger/monk could be the best skirmisher in the game.

If you are doing much ranged attacks with a monk, you are doing a monk wrong. The greatest ability a monk brings to the battlefield is stunning strike, which only works with a melee attack. If you are foregoing that by doing a lot of ranged attacks.... that's like a wizard never using their spells. Just a bad use of the character.

[Fishyninja]

If you are doing much ranged attacks with a monk, you are doing a monk wrong. The greatest ability a monk brings to the battlefield is stunning strike, which only works with a melee attack. If you are foregoing that by doing a lot of ranged attacks.... that's like a wizard never using their spells. Just a bad use of the character.

Also with the Monk I am playing (Way of the Long Death) I get a second option of 'Stunning' (actually causing enemies to be frightened) which costs nothing!
But yes running in stunning a load of enemies and allowing the other party memebrs to finish them off is a great feat.

Considering that the other 3 memebrs of the party are mainly ranged this is pretty handy for them as well. In my eyes the Monk is one of the best crowd controllers there is.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

In my eyes the Monk is one of the best crowd controllers there is.

For sure, there's very very few creatures immune to stun and the cost of 1 ki point is pretty low for what it does. The only thing you ever really have to worry about are creatures with big Con saves like Giants or Dragons. Everything else needs to fear the monk because he's gonna stun them into oblivion.

[Fishyninja]

For sure, there's very very few creatures immune to stun and the cost of 1 ki point is pretty low for what it does. The only thing you ever really have to worry about are creatures with big Con saves like Giants or Dragons. Everything else needs to fear the monk because he's gonna stun them into oblivion.

Indeed and with WOTLD at level 6 I gain Hour of Reaping

At 6th level, you gain the ability to unsettle or terrify those around you as an action, for your soul has been touched by the shadow of death. As an action, each creature within 30 feet of you that can see you must make a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn.

So from level 6 my encounters would go like this (I assume), Run ahead making sure my team are out of that 30ft radius use my action to use Hour of reaping and then in my extra attack one to the closest enemy and use my weapon/martial attack with either flurry of blows or stunning strike on the ones who are not frightened as well as possibly having Colussus Slayer/Horde Breaker, if I dip into Ranger.

[djreynolds]

If you are doing much ranged attacks with a monk, you are doing a monk wrong. The greatest ability a monk brings to the battlefield is stunning strike, which only works with a melee attack. If you are foregoing that by doing a lot of ranged attacks.... that's like a wizard never using their spells. Just a bad use of the character.

I use my monks and rangers as skirmishers, I try to pick off stragglers from the main enemy body, or get to someone dangerous and destabilize him or at least get his attention and harass them

Having a good ranged attack actually opens things up for any class but especially a monk. You can easily shoot with a bow with one attack and then move off punch someone or move in on the same opponent and at 5th level still stun them and FOBs. There is no weapon change or item interactions.

Monks are great at setting the table for other classes to move in and destroy.

You are correct stunning fist is potent, but it is something you want your teammates to also take advantage of. Like that paladin or barbarian who can really lay down the hurt when they strike with advantage, and have the HP and AC to stay in the thick of the fight.

I don't keep my monk in the thick of melee, strike/shoot/stun and move

[Fishyninja]

I use my monks and rangers as skirmishers, I try to pick off stragglers from the main enemy body, or get to someone dangerous and destabilize him or at least get his attention and harass them

Having a good ranged attack actually opens things up for any class but especially a monk. You can easily shoot with a bow with one attack and then move off punch someone or move in on the same opponent and at 5th level still stun them and FOBs. There is no weapon change or item interactions.

Monks are great at setting the table for other classes to move in and destroy.

You are correct stunning fist is potent, but it is something you want your teammates to also take advantage of. Like that paladin or barbarian who can really lay down the hurt when they strike with advantage, and have the HP and AC to stay in the thick of the fight.

I don't keep my monk in the thick of melee, strike/shoot/stun and move

I will admit that I do a little for two reasons 1) I get a lot of temp HP. 2) have one of the higest AC's of the party.

[djreynolds]

I will admit that I do a little for two reasons 1) I get a lot of temp HP. 2) have one of the higest AC's of the party.

I end up blowing through KI points so fast.

Patient defense is great, but it costs a KI point and a BA.

I mean I can easily use up 5 KI points in a 10 round match... it goes that quickly. I try to use stunning fist if there is a caster or archer peppering us or when the tanks have finally caught up... a round later so they can help out

IMHO, a longbow helps out. It is 1d8, only your two-handed melee quarterstaff matches that till 11th level.

Lets say at 4th level your AC is 17, dex 18 and wis 16, its great.

I have been knocked out as a monk, a lot, trying to man up in melee. Because if you use FOB, you cannot disengage with step of the wind nor take the dodge action with patient defense (hence the mobile feat)... and you be surprised how many times you may stun your opponent and kill him, but his 2 buddies beat you up.

I like to use my monk's speed to be anywhere on the battlefield and a short or longbow helps out... and you have the high dex to use it.

I'm not saying only use a bow, I'm saying it just adds to your potent repertoire

[Fishyninja]

IMHO, a longbow helps out. It is 1d8, only your two-handed melee quarterstaff matches that till 11th level.

Lets say at 4th level your AC is 17, dex 18 and wis 16, its great.


I understand about the bow, also being a Wood Elf makes me Auto Proficient with one. I might start using it but like I said we have a ranger who profers ranged attacks our warlock is a ranged attack and our rogue prefers to use her crossbow. It would seem nearly redundant to have yet another ranged person (I understand I wouldn't be ranged all the time). I do have darts that scale with my martial arts so that is something at least and I like deflecting missles.

Oh and you were close on the stats. 3rd AC is 17, dex 17 and wis 16, I have also +1 AC bracers of Protecion.

[Fishyninja]

Double post I know *hangs head in shame*

I actually had a question about my first ASI and where you guys think I should put it, so including racial bonuses my current stats are:


STR - 8
DEX - 17
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 16
CHA - 8


I'm assuming it would be best to split it between Dex and Wis or do you guys think I should do something different?

[Citan]

Double post I know *hangs head in shame*

I actually had a question about my first ASI and where you guys think I should put it, so including racial bonuses my current stats are:


STR - 8
DEX - 17
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 16
CHA - 8


I'm assuming it would be best to split it between Dex and Wis or do you guys think I should do something different?
I'd say it depends on feats.
If you plan on taking Observant or Resilient: Wisdom later, bumping both DEX and WIS +1 is good choice indeed.
Otherwise, I would rather suggest flat-out bumping WIS by 2, unless you really feel you usually have bad luck on your attack rolls.
You will end the same AC-wise, but your DC gains a +1 immediately.
If you want to increase DEX, a "half-feat" may be the solution, but the choice is limited: Resilient or Athlete are the only candidates.

Let's also not forget you will end with proficiency in all saves though, but it comes late, at Monk 14. So considering you want to dip into Ranger for 3 levels, it still may be worth it taking a Resilient feat, either because you think you will never reach character level 18, or just because it will significantly ease your life for a great bunch of levels. ;)

[Fishyninja]

Hmm I hadn't really considered feats as the Monk gets so little ASI's (again about to hit level 4).

I'll include all base states below, that may help a bit more:


STR - 8
DEX - 17
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 16


17. I have a ring of protection which gives +1AC and +1 to saving throws
45ft. 35 Base feet from Wood Elf and +10 Unarmoured Movement
28, with the ability to get 7 temp HP per kill

STR +2
DEX +6
CON +3
INT +1
WIS +4
CHA +0

Emboldened saves are my proficient ones and again if the numbers look funny I have a Ring of Protection that gave +1 to saving throws.


Acrobatics +5
Animal Handling +3
Arcana +0
Athletics -1
Deception -1
History +2
Insight +5
Intimidation -1
Investigation +0
Medicine +3
Nature +0
Perception +5
Performance -1
Persuasion -1
Religion +0
Sleight of Hand +3
Stealth +3
Survival +3

Emboldend ones are my proficient skills.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Indeed and with WOTLD at level 6 I gain Hour of Reaping

At 6th level, you gain the ability to unsettle or terrify those around you as an action, for your soul has been touched by the shadow of death. As an action, each creature within 30 feet of you that can see you must make a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn.

So from level 6 my encounters would go like this (I assume), Run ahead making sure my team are out of that 30ft radius use my action to use Hour of reaping and then in my extra attack one to the closest enemy and use my weapon/martial attack with either flurry of blows or stunning strike on the ones who are not frightened as well as possibly having Colussus Slayer/Horde Breaker, if I dip into Ranger.

Well, you can't do that. If you use your action to do the Hour of Reaping, then that's your action. You only get Extra Attack when you do the Attack action, which you can't do since you already spent your action on Hour of Reaping. You can't get your bonus action martial arts or flurry of blows either because those require that you take the Attack action.

Hour of Reaping isn't a bad ability at all but it does take up your action. You won't be punching anything, but you can hopefully get a whole lot of bad guys frightened for the rest of the party to mow down. It doesn't cost any Ki, so it is spamable. It just depends on how effective you think it is versus getting in there and doing damage/stunning creatures.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Double post I know *hangs head in shame*

I actually had a question about my first ASI and where you guys think I should put it, so including racial bonuses my current stats are:


STR - 8
DEX - 17
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 16
CHA - 8


I'm assuming it would be best to split it between Dex and Wis or do you guys think I should do something different?

You could go Dex +1 Wis +1 on your first ASI if you like. Too bad you don't have another odd stat to balance out. You could go Resilient Wisdom on some ASI but if you think your Monk is going to get to level 14 than that's a waste as you will have proficiency in all ability scores.

Don't underestimate the importance of getting your Wis up to 18 by level 8. I had a monk that did his first ASI to get Dex to 18 and had his Wis at 16. By 6th and 7th level, I was keeping track of how often creatures where making their Con saves against my stunning strike and it was over 50%. So I made sure to get my Wis to 18 at 8th level.

[Starman973]

Just throwing in My Two cents here. When you do Dip into Ranger. Dip either two Or Four, But not three levels, as you don't want to mess up any ASI for yourself down the road. Dipping three, stops you just before getting one from Ranger and makes you loose out on getting one when you hit 18th level in Monk. I would agree with the others that since you are dipping ranger that doing so right after your extra attack is gained that you should start your dip there.
The rest of the choices are just for flavor at that point, If you opt to go with bow and darts, remember that it is good to soft up multiple targets so that when you enter Melee you can get a quick kill for the HP buffer from your Path of the Long death Monk abilities. as for the choice hoard breaker or colossus, think of it like this, which ever you pick, your GM may change his style so the fights are still a challenge for you. You get better at taking on hordes (which monks are often bad at), then he'll throw just big monsters at you or visa versa.
As for your first ASI go wisdom, as this will pay off for your monk abilities, as well as your later Ranger castings.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Just throwing in My Two cents here. When you do Dip into Ranger. Dip either two Or Four, But not three levels, as you don't want to mess up any ASI for yourself down the road. Dipping three, stops you just before getting one from Ranger and makes you loose out on getting one when you hit 18th level in Monk. I would agree with the others that since you are dipping ranger that doing so right after your extra attack is gained that you should start your dip there.
The rest of the choices are just for flavor at that point, If you opt to go with bow and darts, remember that it is good to soft up multiple targets so that when you enter Melee you can get a quick kill for the HP buffer from your Path of the Long death Monk abilities. as for the choice hoard breaker or colossus, think of it like this, which ever you pick, your GM may change his style so the fights are still a challenge for you. You get better at taking on hordes (which monks are often bad at), then he'll throw just big monsters at you or visa versa.
As for your first ASI go wisdom, as this will pay off for your monk abilities, as well as your later Ranger castings.

Depends on how much you value the 17th level monk ability, if he had an Open Hand Monk, there's no way in hell you should do 4 levels of Ranger just to get an ASI and lose out on Quivering Palm. Sometimes in multiclassing you have to give up an ASI to get an optimal build, that's okay. A Monk 17/Ranger 3 still has 4 ASI. That's enough.

[djreynolds]

Depends on how much you value the 17th level monk ability, if he had an Open Hand Monk, there's no way in hell you should do 4 levels of Ranger just to get an ASI and lose out on Quivering Palm. Sometimes in multiclassing you have to give up an ASI to get an optimal build, that's okay. A Monk 17/Ranger 3 still has 4 ASI. That's enough.

This is a good point, those 17th level class features are big.

War cleric, or any cleric is a good option also, war cleric, for instance grants divine favor (1d4 radiant weapon attacks) and shield of faith and even bless and cure wounds/healing word is nice. Guiding bolt and sacred flame give good ranged options... all for 1 level

[Fishyninja]

Well, you can't do that. If you use your action to do the Hour of Reaping, then that's your action. You only get Extra Attack when you do the Attack action, which you can't do since you already spent your action on Hour of Reaping. You can't get your bonus action martial arts or flurry of blows either because those require that you take the Attack action.

Hour of Reaping isn't a bad ability at all but it does take up your action. You won't be punching anything, but you can hopefully get a whole lot of bad guys frightened for the rest of the party to mow down. It doesn't cost any Ki, so it is spamable. It just depends on how effective you think it is versus getting in there and doing damage/stunning creatures.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I think it might be handy if we there if we are greatly outnumbered and I am low on Ki so I can't do stunning strike, sets up the others.


You could go Dex +1 Wis +1 on your first ASI if you like. Too bad you don't have another odd stat to balance out. You could go Resilient Wisdom on some ASI but if you think your Monk is going to get to level 14 than that's a waste as you will have proficiency in all ability scores.

Don't underestimate the importance of getting your Wis up to 18 by level 8. I had a monk that did his first ASI to get Dex to 18 and had his Wis at 16. By 6th and 7th level, I was keeping track of how often creatures where making their Con saves against my stunning strike and it was over 50%. So I made sure to get my Wis to 18 at 8th level.

Yes, we expect our characters to complete a few campaigns, Our DM wants us to level per session so we either have longer sessions or slightly difficult fights to compensate for that.

Hmm I might just bump up my Wis to 18 for the first ASI then as I already have that +1 to AC and Saving throws (so no negative modifiers)


Depends on how much you value the 17th level monk ability, if he had an Open Hand Monk, there's no way in hell you should do 4 levels of Ranger just to get an ASI and lose out on Quivering Palm. Sometimes in multiclassing you have to give up an ASI to get an optimal build, that's okay. A Monk 17/Ranger 3 still has 4 ASI. That's enough.

Touch of the Long Death is not as powerful as Quivering palm but it is still pretty tough:
Starting at 17th level, your touch can channel the touch of death into a creature. As an action, you touch one creature within 5 feet of you, and you expend up to 10 ki points. The target must make a Constitution saving throw or take 2d10 necrotic damage per ki point spent on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

[Sir cryosin]

This is incorrect. Hunter's Mark DOES only work with weapon attacks but per the PHB errata on unarmed strikes, unarmed strikes ARE considered melee weapon attacks (even though they aren't weapons!).

So, yes, Hunter's Mark will work with a monk's unarmed strikes.

So your telling me I can green flame blade and booming blade with my fist and feet ummm.

[Fishyninja]

So your telling me I can green flame blade and booming blade with my fist and feet ummm.

Now I'm confused.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

So your telling me I can green flame blade and booming blade with my fist and feet ummm.

Ha! Nope! Those mention that you need a weapon which an unarmed strike isn't even though it is considered a "melee weapon ATTACK". They got goofy with the errata on that one.

[Joe the Rat]

Types of attacks:

melee weapon attack - melee attack with anything not a spell (I'd like to say "with any physical object," but incorporeal creatures have these too, so...)
ranged weapon attack - ranged attack with anything not a spell
melee spell attack - melee attack with a spell
ranged spell attack - ranged attack with a spell
Am I missing anything?

specific situations and instances:

attack with a melee weapon - melee/ranged weapon attack with a weapon that can be used in melee.
attack with an improvised weapon - melee/ranged weapon attack with something not intended to be a weapon.
unarmed strike - melee weapon attack that doesn't involve weapons.


Personally, If I had a player with a monk with GFB or BB, I'd rule of cool the weapon requirement, or have them make a variant that only works with unarmed strikes. Fist of Emerald Fire!

[Sir cryosin]

Ok so I went and read up on it. So they are considered melee weapon attacks for the attack action. But are not weapons so thinks like BB,GFB and things that say you need a weapon. So with this reading you can smite with your fist right because is say you can smite when you hit with a melee attack. Also with that reading unarmed strikes bypass Resistance 2 all bludgeoning piercing and slashing from non-magical weapons.

[Fishyninja]

I am no longer confused

[Sir cryosin]

I am no longer confused

Sorry I hijacked your thread.

[Fishyninja]

No need to apologise, though I feel we have mvoed away from optmising the Monk/Ranger Multiclass.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Ok so I went and read up on it. So they are considered melee weapon attacks for the attack action. But are not weapons so thinks like BB,GFB and things that say you need a weapon. So with this reading you can smite with your fist right because is say you can smite when you hit with a melee attack. Also with that reading unarmed strikes bypass Resistance 2 all bludgeoning piercing and slashing from non-magical weapons.

Yeah, you can smite with unarmed strikes if you are MAD enough to go Paladin/Monk (I wanna try it someday anyway).

No, resistances are to DAMAGE so if something is resistant to non-magical bludgeoning damage, then they are resistant to a monk's unarmed strike.... until the Monk hits 6th level, that is!

[Specter]

Ranger for Monk is good. But not for Hunter's Mark itself. First, it costs a bonus action that makes you lose two attacks. Then, after you kill someone you gotta use that bonus action again to transfer it to someone else. That's a lot of attacks that are not being made. If the damage boost is all you want, then Divine Favor from War Cleric is better in that regard.

[Fishyninja]

Ranger for Monk is good. But not for Hunter's Mark itself. First, it costs a bonus action that makes you lose two attacks. Then, after you kill someone you gotta use that bonus action again to transfer it to someone else. That's a lot of attacks that are not being made. If the damage boost is all you want, then Divine Favor from War Cleric is better in that regard.

I understand, HM is a bonus, not the reason for the MC. Reason is more for RP reasons, at the moment and we expect to see a lot more is horde style encounters with lots and lots and lots of enemies, Initially I was thinking of taking 3 levels in Ranger for;


Favoured Enemy - Undead
Natural Explorer - Just good for Monks in General Especially Wood Elf Monks with Mask of the Wild
Fighting Style - Duelling (Make my staff a D8 while one handed, yes please. {Until my Martial arts Surpass it})
Spellcasting - Hunters Mark, Cure Wounds, Detect Poison and Disease
Hunter Archetype for Hordebreaker or Collusus Slayer


Now again I understand using spells takes up a spell slot but Ideally I thought the idea of Horde Breaker or Collussus slayer would play well for a monk, and the RP factor is I am travelling with a Ranger whom I acting as a grief counsellor for, he is bitter and sad about the death of his family, my monk is dedicated to Kelemvor

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Ranger for Monk is good. But not for Hunter's Mark itself. First, it costs a bonus action that makes you lose two attacks. Then, after you kill someone you gotta use that bonus action again to transfer it to someone else. That's a lot of attacks that are not being made. If the damage boost is all you want, then Divine Favor from War Cleric is better in that regard.

So wrong. Divine Favor is 1d4 compared to Hunter's Mark's 1d6. Divine Favor lasts up to 1 minute with concentration while Hunter's Mark lasts up to 1 hour with concentration. Both of these spells costs a bonus action to cast, but the mileage you get from Hunter's Mark both in damage and longevity is so much greater. Who cares if you have to use your bonus action to put it on a new target? If your opponents are dropping that quickly and easily in battle that you have to move it around so much than you are not in a combat situation where you even need the spell, nor are you losing much by re-targeting it since your enemies are going down so quickly.

[Fishyninja]

So I think really what most people are saying is:


Monk/Ranger MC is not bad at all
That Colussus Slayer is better than horde breaker (Though I still think Scaling Weapon Dice make Horde Breaker the better choice).
Hunter's Mark is ok but not brilliant as it takes a bonus action.


My last question is, what spells do you think I should take along with Hunters Mark, I think Goodberry or Cure Wounds, but what else?

[rbstr]

Colossus Slayer vs. Hordebreaker: It's just not usually effective to be spreading damage when you could be focusing it. Sure, hordebreaker is more technically damage, however it isn't always usable and it requires a new attack roll to get the damage.

IMO Hunter's Mark is a pretty good situational spell on a Monk. It is a damage increase on targets that don't go down quickly (more than two rounds-ish). It helps you do more damage against high AC and it can help you conserve resources since a single cast can increase damage over multiple enemies or for several rounds on one enemy.

[Fishyninja]

Colossus Slayer vs. Hordebreaker: It's just not usually effective to be spreading damage when you could be focusing it. Sure, hordebreaker is more technically damage, however it isn't always usable and it requires a new attack roll to get the damage.

IMO Hunter's Mark is a pretty good situational spell on a Monk. It is a damage increase on targets that don't go down quickly (more than two rounds-ish). It helps you do more damage against high AC and it can help you conserve resources since a single cast can increase damage over multiple enemies or for several rounds on one enemy.

Yeah thinking about it as well the damage for collusus slayer, it only gets outclassed at the higher levels of Monk, and yes the extra attack roll is a risk of failure. Collussus Slayer it is. And yes I can see the Adv of HM

[Specter]

So wrong. Divine Favor is 1d4 compared to Hunter's Mark's 1d6. Divine Favor lasts up to 1 minute with concentration while Hunter's Mark lasts up to 1 hour with concentration. Both of these spells costs a bonus action to cast, but the mileage you get from Hunter's Mark both in damage and longevity is so much greater. Who cares if you have to use your bonus action to put it on a new target? If your opponents are dropping that quickly and easily in battle that you have to move it around so much than you are not in a combat situation where you even need the spell, nor are you losing much by re-targeting it since your enemies are going down so quickly.

When you're in a combat that lasts more than 10 turns in D&D, call me. That happened once to me in 4 years of gaming. Other than that, fine. That's just my gaming experience.

And I still think Hunter's Mark is good BTW, but that you should save it for boss fights or something. Against many enemies it WILL be frustrating.

[Fishyninja]

When you're in a combat that lasts more than 10 turns in D&D, call me. That happened once to me in 4 years of gaming. Other than that, fine. That's just my gaming experience.

And I still think Hunter's Mark is good BTW, but that you should save it for boss fights or something. Against many enemies it WILL be frustrating.

Generally at the moment with my damage output and lucky rolls and the ability to use martial arts for most regular enemies I am taking them out in one or two turns. Therefore CS will further add to that and also yes I think HM's are better for the BBEG I'll let the Ranger and Warlock use most of the HM and Hex.

[Specter]

My last question is, what spells do you think I should take along with Hunters Mark, I think Goodberry or Cure Wounds, but what else?

Jump.

It's the lamest spell, I know, but combined with Step of the Wind it makes for an awesome birdman concept. There's also Ensnaring Strike which is pretty good for enemies with low strenght, such as casters.

[Tanarii]

Jump.

It's the lamest spell, I know, Wait, what?

Jump is an perfectly acceptable level 1 spell. Unless you're adventuring on perfectly flat plains. Are you running all "Mongol Hordes" D&D or something?

[Fishyninja]

Wait, what?

Jump is an perfectly acceptable level 1 spell. Unless you're adventuring on perfectly flat plains. Are you running all "Mongol Hordes" D&D or something?

Only reason why I am tempted not to take this is becuase Monks (at level 9 granted) gain the ability to move vertically and over water with no hindrnace if all done in the same move. If I could swap my spells out at a later level then I might consider it

[Tanarii]

Only reason why I am tempted not to take this is becuase Monks (at level 9 granted) gain the ability to move vertically and over water with no hindrnace if all done in the same move. If I could swap my spells out at a later level then I might consider it
Also monks already get Step of the Wind.

But Jump is useful for bypassing difficult terrain and various objects. Not just wall & water running.

Also, I still dispute that Unarmored Movement improvement is intended to allow vertical movement up vertical surfaces. IMO 'along' clearly indicates horizontal wall running, not vertical wall running.

[Fishyninja]

Also, I still dispute that Unarmored Movement improvement is intended to allow vertical movement up vertical surfaces. IMO 'along' clearly indicates horizontal wall running, not vertical wall running.

A Valid argument, something to discuss with the DM. but yeah other potential ranger spells apart form HM and Goodberry or Cure wounds.

Remember this is for a Monk 6/Ranger 3

[Fishyninja]

First of all.......My apologies for double posting. I felt it would be wrong to open an entirely new thread for my question when it kind of links to the optimisation of my Monk Character.

So, I am going to hit Level 4 soon so ASI/Feat Time. I am Unsure what to go for. Below are my stats:

Race: Wood Elf
HP: 28
AC: 17 (Unarmoured defence & +1 from Ring of Protection)
Str: 8 (-1)
Dex: 17 (+3)
Con: 14 (+2)
Int: 10 (-)
Wis: 16 (+3)
Cha: 8 (-1)
Archetype: Way of the Long Death


So, based on the information above I see a few options and I wanted your thoughts on them:


Boost Dex and Wis by 1 to give a +4 Modifier to Dex and my AC to 18
Boost my Wis to 18 to give a +2 to my Wis to give a +4 Modifier to Wis. Improving AC by 1 and Ki Save DC by 1
Boost Either my Str or Cha to 10 to remove negative Modifier
Pick the Spear Mastery Feat
You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make with a spear.
When you use a spear, its damage die changes from a d6 to a d8, and from a d8 to a d10 when wielded with two hands. (This benefit has no effect if another feature has already improved the weapon’s die.)
You can set your spear to receive a charge. As a bonus action, choose a creature you can see that is at least 20 feet away from you. If that creature moves within your spear’s reach on its next turn, you can make a melee attack against it with your spear as a reaction. If the attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 piercing damage, or an extra 1d10 piercing damage if you wield the spear with two hands. You can’t use this ability if the creature used the Disengage action before moving.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can increase your reach with a spear by 5 feet for the rest of your turn.




So Veteran players, please help a new player with this decision. Higher Attributes or a Feat upping my damage.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

First of all.......My apologies for double posting. I felt it would be wrong to open an entirely new thread for my question when it kind of links to the optimisation of my Monk Character.

So, I am going to hit Level 4 soon so ASI/Feat Time. I am Unsure what to go for. Below are my stats:

Race: Wood Elf
HP: 28
AC: 17 (Unarmoured defence & +1 from Ring of Protection)
Str: 8 (-1)
Dex: 17 (+3)
Con: 14 (+2)
Int: 10 (-)
Wis: 16 (+3)
Cha: 8 (-1)
Archetype: Way of the Long Death


So, based on the information above I see a few options and I wanted your thoughts on them:


Boost Dex and Wis by 1 to give a +4 Modifier to Dex and my AC to 18
Boost my Wis to 18 to give a +2 to my Wis to give a +4 Modifier to Wis. Improving AC by 1 and Ki Save DC by 1
Boost Either my Str or Cha to 10 to remove negative Modifier
Pick the Spear Mastery Feat
You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make with a spear.
When you use a spear, its damage die changes from a d6 to a d8, and from a d8 to a d10 when wielded with two hands. (This benefit has no effect if another feature has already improved the weapon’s die.)
You can set your spear to receive a charge. As a bonus action, choose a creature you can see that is at least 20 feet away from you. If that creature moves within your spear’s reach on its next turn, you can make a melee attack against it with your spear as a reaction. If the attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 piercing damage, or an extra 1d10 piercing damage if you wield the spear with two hands. You can’t use this ability if the creature used the Disengage action before moving.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can increase your reach with a spear by 5 feet for the rest of your turn.




So Veteran players, please help a new player with this decision. Higher Attributes or a Feat upping my damage.

Boost either Dex or Wis, that's it, unless you want the Mobile feat. All other options are pointless on a Monk. Why in hell would you want to boost dump stats like Str or Cha? You want your monk to suck?

[djreynolds]

First of all.......My apologies for double posting. I felt it would be wrong to open an entirely new thread for my question when it kind of links to the optimisation of my Monk Character.

So, I am going to hit Level 4 soon so ASI/Feat Time. I am Unsure what to go for. Below are my stats:

Race: Wood Elf
HP: 28
AC: 17 (Unarmoured defence & +1 from Ring of Protection)
Str: 8 (-1)
Dex: 17 (+3)
Con: 14 (+2)
Int: 10 (-)
Wis: 16 (+3)
Cha: 8 (-1)
Archetype: Way of the Long Death


So, based on the information above I see a few options and I wanted your thoughts on them:


Boost Dex and Wis by 1 to give a +4 Modifier to Dex and my AC to 18
Boost my Wis to 18 to give a +2 to my Wis to give a +4 Modifier to Wis. Improving AC by 1 and Ki Save DC by 1
Boost Either my Str or Cha to 10 to remove negative Modifier
Pick the Spear Mastery Feat
You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make with a spear.
When you use a spear, its damage die changes from a d6 to a d8, and from a d8 to a d10 when wielded with two hands. (This benefit has no effect if another feature has already improved the weapon’s die.)
You can set your spear to receive a charge. As a bonus action, choose a creature you can see that is at least 20 feet away from you. If that creature moves within your spear’s reach on its next turn, you can make a melee attack against it with your spear as a reaction. If the attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 piercing damage, or an extra 1d10 piercing damage if you wield the spear with two hands. You can’t use this ability if the creature used the Disengage action before moving.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can increase your reach with a spear by 5 feet for the rest of your turn.




So Veteran players, please help a new player with this decision. Higher Attributes or a Feat upping my damage.

1 Max out dex and wis

2 Spear mastery sounds cool if you want this feat I say take it now honestly because in time the damage will be the same as it is a monk weapon,

3 I like mobile, it is a good feat as you can freely move away from an enemy you attacked.. that saves KI points and it allows you to use FOB and move away

Do spear mastery, it sounds cool it is like PAM, but perhaps better for a monk

[Fishyninja]

Boost either Dex or Wis, that's it, unless you want the Mobile feat. All other options are pointless on a Monk. Why in hell would you want to boost dump stats like Str or Cha? You want your monk to suck?

Trust me I'm not going to do it, but felt I needed to list it to be fair.


1 Max out dex and wis

2 Spear mastery sounds cool if you want this feat I say take it now honestly because in time the damage will be the same as it is a monk weapon,

3 I like mobile, it is a good feat as you can freely move away from an enemy you attacked.. that saves KI points and it allows you to use FOB and move away

Do spear mastery, it sounds cool it is like PAM, but perhaps better for a monk

Mobile is a very good feat, saving Ki is a good idea but I don't know if it worth an entire ASI.

The Spear Mastery caught my eye not only for increasing my Damage Die early on but also it gives options for my bonus action (if I am not using my martial arts for whatever reason).

I get that mixing out Dex and Wis is the End Goal for Monks, I just feel that with his current stats he is in a strong enough position to maybe forgo one ASI.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Trust me I'm not going to do it, but felt I needed to list it to be fair.



Mobile is a very good feat, saving Ki is a good idea but I don't know if it worth an entire ASI.

The Spear Mastery caught my eye not only for increasing my Damage Die early on but also it gives options for my bonus action (if I am not using my martial arts for whatever reason).

I get that mixing out Dex and Wis is the End Goal for Monks, I just feel that with his current stats he is in a strong enough position to maybe forgo one ASI.

Right, and you can pick Mobile for that which will be infinitely more useful than getting Spear Mastery which, unless you have some really nice magical spear, will never be as good as your fists which become magical weapons at 6th level.

If you are allergic to the Mobile feat, get the Lucky feat and watch how many times it saves your butt all the time.

[Fishyninja]

Right, and you can pick Mobile for that which will be infinitely more useful than getting Spear Mastery which, unless you have some really nice magical spear, will never be as good as your fists which become magical weapons at 6th level.

If you are allergic to the Mobile feat, get the Lucky feat and watch how many times it saves your butt all the time.

True the fists do become magicaland I can supplement their damage for my monk weapons which does make Spear Mastery a little underwhelming then. I wouldn't say I am allergic to Mobile it's jsut not what I was looking for. Lucky is anotehr solid choice.

The only reason I was thinking of upping my damage is the other three players in the party are all ranged (One Ranger {who prefers to not get up close}) a Warlock and a Bard. So normally I end up kiting the bad guys a lot and I thought upping the dmaage may helpr resolve battles a bit quicker.

Any thoughts?

[djreynolds]

Mr Malifice

Consider:

A Naginata [spear] using OHM Monk 3 [Str 8, Dex 16] deals [1d8+3] and [1d4+3] with martial arts. If he flurries he instead deals 2 x [1d4+3] damage attacks in addition to his [1d8+3] naginata attack. All attacks use Dex (as does AC etc).

Both flurry attacks have a chance of knocking his target prone, pushing it back or denying it reactions.

A Naginata [halberd] using Kensai Monk 3 [Str 8, Dex 16] deals [1d10+3] and cant use martial arts at all. Instead he can add 1d4 bludgeoning damage to his Naginata strike as a bonus action. If he doesnt add the +d4 bludgeoning damamge, and instead flurries as his bonus action, he deals 2 x [0] damage attacks that both use Str to hit in addition to his [1d10+3] dex based naginata attack.

The spear Naginata using Open Hand Monk is in all ways, better than the halberd Naginata using Kensai.

I'm stealing this but this guy is great source for action economy and game mechanics.

Now this is about kensai blah, blah

but this section should be helpful to you

A Naginata [spear] using OHM Monk 3 [Str 8, Dex 16] deals [1d8+3] and [1d4+3] with martial arts. If he flurries he instead deals 2 x [1d4+3] damage attacks in addition to his [1d8+3] naginata attack. All attacks use Dex (as does AC etc).

Both flurry attacks have a chance of knocking his target prone, pushing it back or denying it reactions.

Now I know its for an open hand monk, but still it shows you that a monk can still do some serious damage if he wielding a spear or staff 2 handed for his early career.

So go for spear mastery, at 5th level you get basically 4 attacks, 2 with a spear, 1 free hand attack (uses a BA) and then spend a Ki and one more.

And ranger is a good dip, hunter's mark is 1 hour long you may not be able to switch back and forth all the time... but it is there.

And archery style is sitting there for free at 2nd and so is duelist, yes +2 damage in melee is worth it but shooting fools from out to 600 feet is priceless.

Also 3 level of swashbuckler/rogue gives a mobile type ability also, cunning action, 2d6 SA (short sword) and expertise in stealth and perception.

I would love to see your build, you obviously have invest a lot spare time between work and kids and school, so I'd like to see how things progress

Good luck storming the castle

[Fishyninja]

Mr Malifice

Consider:

A Naginata [spear] using OHM Monk 3 [Str 8, Dex 16] deals [1d8+3] and [1d4+3] with martial arts. If he flurries he instead deals 2 x [1d4+3] damage attacks in addition to his [1d8+3] naginata attack. All attacks use Dex (as does AC etc).

Both flurry attacks have a chance of knocking his target prone, pushing it back or denying it reactions.

A Naginata [halberd] using Kensai Monk 3 [Str 8, Dex 16] deals [1d10+3] and cant use martial arts at all. Instead he can add 1d4 bludgeoning damage to his Naginata strike as a bonus action. If he doesnt add the +d4 bludgeoning damamge, and instead flurries as his bonus action, he deals 2 x [0] damage attacks that both use Str to hit in addition to his [1d10+3] dex based naginata attack.

The spear Naginata using Open Hand Monk is in all ways, better than the halberd Naginata using Kensai.

I'm stealing this but this guy is great source for action economy and game mechanics.

Now this is about kensai blah, blah

but this section should be helpful to you

A Naginata [spear] using OHM Monk 3 [Str 8, Dex 16] deals [1d8+3] and [1d4+3] with martial arts. If he flurries he instead deals 2 x [1d4+3] damage attacks in addition to his [1d8+3] naginata attack. All attacks use Dex (as does AC etc).

Both flurry attacks have a chance of knocking his target prone, pushing it back or denying it reactions.

Now I know its for an open hand monk, but still it shows you that a monk can still do some serious damage if he wielding a spear or staff 2 handed for his early career.

So go for spear mastery, at 5th level you get basically 4 attacks, 2 with a spear, 1 free hand attack (uses a BA) and then spend a Ki and one more.

And ranger is a good dip, hunter's mark is 1 hour long you may not be able to switch back and forth all the time... but it is there.

And archery style is sitting there for free at 2nd and so is duelist, yes +2 damage in melee is worth it but shooting fools from out to 600 feet is priceless.

Also 3 level of swashbuckler/rogue gives a mobile type ability also, cunning action, 2d6 SA (short sword) and expertise in stealth and perception.

I would love to see your build, you obviously have invest a lot spare time between work and kids and school, so I'd like to see how things progress

Good luck storming the castle

Thanks for the tips I'll let you know how it goes like I said vurrently a lv3 Way of the Long Death Monk (Fits the RP) who has a spear and a staff ans is currently using both (primarily two handed most of the time) I am kind of acting liek a tank/controller for the party.

[coredump]

First of all.......My apologies for double posting. I felt it would be wrong to open an entirely new thread for my question when it kind of links to the optimisation of my Monk Character.

So, I am going to hit Level 4 soon so ASI/Feat Time. I am Unsure what to go for. Below are my stats:
So, based on the information above I see a few options and I wanted your thoughts on them:


Boost Dex and Wis by 1 to give a +4 Modifier to Dex and my AC to 18
Boost my Wis to 18 to give a +2 to my Wis to give a +4 Modifier to Wis. Improving AC by 1 and Ki Save DC by 1
Boost Either my Str or Cha to 10 to remove negative Modifier
Pick the Spear Mastery Feat
You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make with a spear.
When you use a spear, its damage die changes from a d6 to a d8, and from a d8 to a d10 when wielded with two hands. (This benefit has no effect if another feature has already improved the weapon’s die.)
You can set your spear to receive a charge. As a bonus action, choose a creature you can see that is at least 20 feet away from you. If that creature moves within your spear’s reach on its next turn, you can make a melee attack against it with your spear as a reaction. If the attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 piercing damage, or an extra 1d10 piercing damage if you wield the spear with two hands. You can’t use this ability if the creature used the Disengage action before moving.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can increase your reach with a spear by 5 feet for the rest of your turn.




So Veteran players, please help a new player with this decision. Higher Attributes or a Feat upping my damage.

Wis and Dex both increase AC
I would up Dex, since it increases attack and damage, which you use all the time.
You could up wis, which helps with Stunning Strike, but you don't use that as often. OTOH, it tends to be more important when you use it.
Don't pick spear Master, its a waste. You get the *same* attack and damage bonus from upping Dex, but Dex helps all attacks, not just spears, and it ups your AC. The +5 range just isn't worth it.

[coredump]

Hello All.

Currently playing a modified version of The Lost Mines of Phandelver as a Wood Elf Monk, this is a continuation from a quick one shot so our characters have hit level 3 and have chosen our Archetypes. My DM has allowed me to use a 'Way of the Long Death Monk' as it REALLY fits into the RP of the session!

Anyway I was thinking of dipping a few levels once I hit lv 5 or 6 as a monk, now from experience our DM, likes to give us, during encounters, hordes....so many hordes. So I was thinking with my Monk of taking 2 or 3 levels in Ranger for Favoured Enemy (Undead), Hunter's Mark (More damage is always nice), Duelling fighting Style, and Horde Breaker (Extra weapon attacks, on top the Extra attack I get as a Monk).

Thoughts, opinions?

[edit] I was also thinking ranger because as we have one in our party, other members are a warlock and a rogue, it makes sense the ranger could teach me a thing or two.

Okay....may advice is "Don't do it". (Unless its largely for roleplaying purposes....thats different)

Lets look at your benefits
Dueling fighting style: Your Qstaff damage goes from 4.5 to 5.5 average, so basically +1 damage.
Collosus slayer: An extra 4.5 damage once per round if you hit. This is pretty likely if you are getting 3-4 attacks per round, not as likely if getting 1-2 attacks.
Hunter's Mark: An extra 3.5 per hit, but it is a Bonus Action, which means casting it is 1-2 less attacks, and everytime you move it, its 1-2 less attacks, each attack missed is 8.5 damage missed. Plus, its concentration, which means a monk in melee is likely to only have the spell for a round or two.

Now lets look at what you give up (assuming monk6/ranger3):
Your miss an ASI, so Dex is not +2. So Attk, damage, AC, and Dex save, are all *not* +1 (So much for that damage advantage from Dueling)
You miss evasion, which is huge for reducing damage
You can't remove Charm and Frighten effects on you
You can't run up walls, across water, etc
You are now 4 levels, not 1, from getting another speed increase
You are now 5 levels, not 2, from increased weapon damage.
You have *3 more* Ki points, which means 3 more attacks per short rest, or 3 more stunning strikes, etc.


You are just not getting enough to justify all that you are losing out on.

[Fishyninja]

Don't pick spear Master, its a waste. You get the *same* attack and damage bonus from upping Dex, but Dex helps all attacks, not just spears, and it ups your AC. The +5 range just isn't worth it.

Indeed adding my dex does increase my modifier but as far as I am aware my damage die will only change based on weapon (and my martial arts as I level)?

[coredump]

Indeed adding my dex does increase my modifier but as far as I am aware my damage die will only change based on weapon (and my martial arts as I level)?

Damage is damage.

D8 gives average damage of 4.5
D6+1 gives average damage of 4.5



Same concept applies to the Multi-classing:

Monk6/Ranger3 Dex 18, 1H Qstaff, 1D6+2+4=9.5 ave
Monk9 Dex 20, 2H Qstaff, 1D8+5=9.5 ave (But also gets a +1 on Attack rolls)

[Fishyninja]

Okay....may advice is "Don't do it". (Unless its largely for roleplaying purposes....thats different)

Lets look at your benefits....Snio


Damage is damage.

D8 gives average damage of 4.5
D6+1 gives average damage of 4.5

Same concept applies to the Multi-classing:

Monk6/Ranger3 Dex 18, 1H Qstaff, 1D6+2+4=9.5 ave
Monk9 Dex 20, 2H Qstaff, 1D8+5=9.5 ave (But also gets a +1 on Attack rolls)

Hmmm the numbers are convincing, tehre is an RP element to the want to multicass as well as trying to up the damage but it seems ideally for the Monk at the moment the best bet is jsut to level up naturally utilsie my ASI's and pick feats not damage related but make the monk more monky........Would magic Initiate be a decent feat? Again the problem is I haven't met any druids or clerics :P

[Specter]

Okay....may advice is "Don't do it". (Unless its largely for roleplaying purposes....thats different)

Lets look at your benefits
Dueling fighting style: Your Qstaff damage goes from 4.5 to 5.5 average, so basically +1 damage.
Collosus slayer: An extra 4.5 damage once per round if you hit. This is pretty likely if you are getting 3-4 attacks per round, not as likely if getting 1-2 attacks.
Hunter's Mark: An extra 3.5 per hit, but it is a Bonus Action, which means casting it is 1-2 less attacks, and everytime you move it, its 1-2 less attacks, each attack missed is 8.5 damage missed. Plus, its concentration, which means a monk in melee is likely to only have the spell for a round or two.

Now lets look at what you give up (assuming monk6/ranger3):
Your miss an ASI, so Dex is not +2. So Attk, damage, AC, and Dex save, are all *not* +1 (So much for that damage advantage from Dueling)
You miss evasion, which is huge for reducing damage
You can't remove Charm and Frighten effects on you
You can't run up walls, across water, etc
You are now 4 levels, not 1, from getting another speed increase
You are now 5 levels, not 2, from increased weapon damage.
You have *3 more* Ki points, which means 3 more attacks per short rest, or 3 more stunning strikes, etc.

You are just not getting enough to justify all that you are losing out on.

You're leaving many important aspects of ranger behind, such as +3HP, a new skill, favored enemy benefits, natural explorer bonuses and spells other than hunter's mark. It's a fair trade.

[Fishyninja]

I haven't met any druids or clerics :P
Speaking of Clerics.......and maximising damage in some way without gimping my Monk.
Say I meet a Cleric (which then would allow me to MC with no RP guilt), would this be a viable build:

Take 1 level in Cleric and choose the Arcana Domain (if SCAG Content is allowed), gain not only Detect Magic and Magic Missle but gain proficiency and pick 2 Cantrips from the Wizard List which then count as Cleric Cantrips:

Cantrip 1: Booming Blade - If my thinking is correct I make the melee attack so 1d6/8 Damage from my QS, then I can either 1/2d4 from martial arts and move (and take an AOO) or Disengage using Step of the Wind.....from there, they chase me and get 1d8 thunder damage!

Cantrip 2: Anything that works.

[djreynolds]

Lots of players grab hex from warlock with magic initiate, just for the damage. Its an option. Just need the 13 in charisma.. I think, AFB

[Fishyninja]

Lots of players grab hex from warlock with magic initiate, just for the damage. Its an option. Just need the 13 in charisma.. I think, AFB
Cha 8 so a nope on that front, again I am also AFB so I'll check later.



Take 1 level in Cleric and choose the Arcana Domain (if SCAG Content is allowed), gain not only Detect Magic and Magic Missle but gain proficiency and pick 2 Cantrips from the Wizard List which then count as Cleric Cantrips:

Cantrip 1: Booming Blade - If my thinking is correct I make the melee attack so 1d6/8 Damage from my QS, then I can either 1/2d4 from martial arts and move (and take an AOO) or Disengage using Step of the Wind.....from there, they chase me and get 1d8 thunder damage!

As I said in my reasoning above, part of BB is that I HAVE to make a melee weapon attack during it and thus as stated I get 1d6/8 from staff, then because I made a weapon attack I can follow up with my martial arts for a 1/2d4 (Currently at level 3). Move away and hopefully avoid the AOO or replace the Martial arts with disengage and then if they move they are damaged by BB. This way I am getting a potential 1d8 which scales up at certain levels (and if I recall also adds an extra 1d8 onto weapon damage at level 5) without having to dip too much into another class and without really having to use anything else which limits by bonus action.

The beauty is once I hit level 5 I have the choice of attacking them twice (and most likely getting a hit {and gaining the extra 1d8 from BB [If I remember it correctly]) and/or choosing stunning strike, if I stun them great! Advantage on attacks for everybody! If I fail, well they take some extra damage, all without wasting my turn casting spells.

Also then this allows me to have (again will need to check) 4 cantrips and 2 spells at my disposal if required!

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Lots of players grab hex from warlock with magic initiate, just for the damage. Its an option. Just need the 13 in charisma.. I think, AFB

There are no requirements for Magic Initiate, so if you have Cha 8 and pick Hex from Warlock, it won't effect you any since Cha has no effect on the spell. Same with stuff like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade.

[djreynolds]

There are no requirements for Magic Initiate, so if you have Cha 8 and pick Hex from Warlock, it won't effect you any since Cha has no effect on the spell. Same with stuff like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade.

Then grab hex

[Specter]

Just so you know, Booming Blade doesn't use the attackaction, so you'll only be able to attack once in your turn. No extra attack, no bonus attacks.

[Fishyninja]

There are no requirements for Magic Initiate, so if you have Cha 8 and pick Hex from Warlock, it won't effect you any since Cha has no effect on the spell. Same with stuff like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade.
Fair point, so Ideally I'd be picking a feat instead of a level dip.


Just so you know, Booming Blade doesn't use the attackaction, so you'll only be able to attack once in your turn. No extra attack, no bonus attacks.

Are you sure on this? I ask as the wording implies that you have to make a melee weapon attack to cast the spell and as such as it is a weapon attack using a monk weapon I can follow up with Martial arts. If I am incorrect fine, but it seems the wording implies that you have to make a melee attack to cast it which is your action.

Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: 1 round

As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, and it becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves before then, it immediately takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.

This spell's damage increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level and 17th level.

EDIT: I spoke to my DM ans he ruled that even though it asks for a melee attack, it is a spell and thus I cannot utilise martial arts etc. You are correct Specter

[Specter]

Are you sure on this? I ask as the wording implies that you have to make a melee weapon attack to cast the spell and as such as it is a weapon attack using a monk weapon I can follow up with Martial arts. If I am incorrect fine, but it seems the wording implies that you have to make a melee attack to cast it which is your action.

Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V, M (a weapon)
Duration: 1 round

As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, and it becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves before then, it immediately takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.

This spell's damage increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level and 17th level.

EDIT: I spoke to my DM ans he ruled that even though it asks for a melee attack, it is a spell and thus I cannot utilise martial arts etc. You are correct Specter

Yep. Otherwise, everyone who has Extra Attack would have to dip into a caster to be optimal.

[coredump]

Your DM is correct; Extra Attack, Martial Arts, and Flurry of Blows are only possible if you take the Attack Action that turn. Booming Blade and GFB are both designed for classes that do not get access to Extra Attack and/or bonus attacks.

Hex has much the same issue as Hunter's Mark. 1) It takes a bonus action to cast or move, so no bonus attack(s) on those rounds 2) Its concentration, so it may not last very long, and 3) with MI feat, you can only cast it once a day. MI is best used when the cantrips can be well utilized.

As for feats.... its hard. Dex is so useful for Monks, and Wisdom helps both AC and Stunning Strike..... its a hard choice to give one of those up for a feat. I really can't think of any spells that would warrant that exchange. Mobile is a great feat, Lucky is powerful, if you were willing to drop down to a shortsword....defensive Duelist could be fun (but not until at least lvl8), Observant or Alert bring some interesting utility.
Again, not sure if any of those are 'better' than upping Dex/Wis, but they won't be much worse, and can add an interesting feel to the character. (I never planned on it, but now I am thinking about Def Duelist for my monk...)

[Fishyninja]

Your DM is correct; Extra Attack, Martial Arts, and Flurry of Blows are only possible if you take the Attack Action that turn. Booming Blade and GFB are both designed for classes that do not get access to Extra Attack and/or bonus attacks.

Hex has much the same issue as Hunter's Mark. 1) It takes a bonus action to cast or move, so no bonus attack(s) on those rounds 2) Its concentration, so it may not last very long, and 3) with MI feat, you can only cast it once a day. MI is best used when the cantrips can be well utilized.

As for feats.... its hard. Dex is so useful for Monks, and Wisdom helps both AC and Stunning Strike..... its a hard choice to give one of those up for a feat. I really can't think of any spells that would warrant that exchange. Mobile is a great feat, Lucky is powerful, if you were willing to drop down to a shortsword....defensive Duelist could be fun (but not until at least lvl8), Observant or Alert bring some interesting utility.
Again, not sure if any of those are 'better' than upping Dex/Wis, but they won't be much worse, and can add an interesting feel to the character. (I never planned on it, but now I am thinking about Def Duelist for my monk...)

See My Des is 17 and Wis is 18 so at my first ASI I can turn on of them into a +4 modifier.
I am still toying with the idea of MCing, however I feel that I amy be trying to punch above my weight here, like I said if I was going to MC then level 5 for the extra attack so I have a way to go. Feats that have peaked my interest were spear master and magic initiate but again seem not to be great for the Monk. Alert/Lucky/Mobile all great feats but I was trying to find something a little different.


Yep. Otherwise, everyone who has Extra Attack would have to dip into a caster to be optimal.
It makes sense however you can see how the wording is a little misleading.

[djreynolds]

See how it goes. Play some adventures and see what you are lacking. Monk is a solid class good in all 3 game pillars.

You are a facilitator on the battlefield. You can get to anyone anywhere.

Think of a baseball player who bunts to get his guy on first base to second, then the barbarian can hit and get him home.

Run around and stun and have the paladin smite them and crit.

Monk's are very valuable.

[Davemeddlehed]

I believe QS 1-handed is 1d6, unless its a monk weapon thing I don't understand.

HM gets added to all of your attacks on the target that is affected. In a horde situation the issue is you will need to use your bonus action to transfer the mark to a new target. If you are fighting a bunch of low hp mooks, you may be better off just using the bonus action to attack another one rather than transfering the mark.

OP was referring to the Dueling fighting style, which adds +2 to damage rolls with a weapon in one hand and nothing else held. It effectively turns the d6 damage dice into a d8.

[coredump]

See My Des is 17 and Wis is 18 so at my first ASI I can turn on of them into a +4 modifier.
I am still toying with the idea of MCing, however I feel that I amy be trying to punch above my weight here, like I said if I was going to MC then level 5 for the extra attack so I have a way to go. Feats that have peaked my interest were spear master and magic initiate but again seem not to be great for the Monk. Alert/Lucky/Mobile all great feats but I was trying to find something a little different.
MCing won't be terribad or anything, it just doesn't seem 'worth it'. But if its fun, or fluffy, or whatever....then go for it. I think you get some cool things at Monk Levels 5/6/7/8/9/ So I can't say when you should switch over, OTOH, that means they are about even, so do it whenever you want.
OTOH, keep in mind that MCing will mean delaying your ASI's and/or Feats.

If you want a feat, think about Defensive Duelist. By total level 9, you get to boost your melee AC by 4. Its like a recurring Shield spell....not bad.



It makes sense however you can see how the wording is a little misleading.

It can be, until you learn what to look for. Each of those abilities will explicitly state "when you use the attack action to...."

[Fishyninja]

See how it goes. Play some adventures and see what you are lacking. Monk is a solid class good in all 3 game pillars.

You are a facilitator on the battlefield. You can get to anyone anywhere.

Yeah everyone keeps saying this, we are still only level 3 and I have to admit I loving my Archetype (Way of the Long Death).


Think of a baseball player who bunts to get his guy on first base to second, then the barbarian can hit and get him home.
I think I understand this, I am British so Baseball is not my thing.



Run around and stun and have the paladin smite them and crit.

Monk's are very valuable.
Yes to the Run & Stun, no to the smiting.....no Paladin in the group (Warlock, Bard and Ranger)...also Awwww you're sweet.


OP was referring to the Dueling fighting style, which adds +2 to damage rolls with a weapon in one hand and nothing else held. It effectively turns the d6 damage dice into a d8.
Indeed I was.


MCing won't be terribad or anything, it just doesn't seem 'worth it'. But if its fun, or fluffy.
I was thinking more Fluff, original thought was the Ranger taught me some stuff however looking at it now I think the Fighter Battlemaster might be a good dip, just need to think of the fluff.



It can be, until you learn what to look for. Each of those abilities will explicitly state "when you use the attack action to...."
*Shakes fist at English Language*

[Saggo]

OP was referring to the Dueling fighting style, which adds +2 to damage rolls with a weapon in one hand and nothing else held. It effectively turns the d6 damage dice into a d8.

Not effectively, 1d6+2 is better than 1d8 (3-8 avg 5.5 vs 1-8 avg 4.5). Calling it a d8 if you have Dueling is actually lowballing.

Edit: Meant d8 4.5, 5.5 was a typo.

[Fishyninja]

Not effectively, 1d6+2 is better than 1d8 (3-8 avg 5.5 vs 1-8 avg 5.5). Calling it a d8 if you have Dueling is actually lowballing.

Ok this is wear I suck at D&D calculating all the maths and averages, in my mind 6+2 = 8 therefore a 1d6+2 should be a 1d8 but it's not. Gah.

[RulesJD]

Just FYI:

Horde Breaker is in every way better on a Monk than Colossus Slayer.


Horde Breaker = another opportunity to do a Stunning Strike, plus if you have Divine Favor running (the best DPR increase on a Monk), you apply that as well.

[Saggo]

Ok this is wear I suck at D&D calculating all the maths and averages, in my mind 6+2 = 8 therefore a 1d6+2 should be a 1d8 but it's not. Gah.

Start simple. Getting a 6 from a d6 only has a 1/6th chance (6 sides, only one of them has a 6), so we use average. Dice average is just total of all the possible numbers divided by the total number of sides (the arithmetic mean).

d6 = (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 = 3.5
d8 = (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8)/8 = 4.5
etc.

Then add new bits, like Dueling.

d6+2 = ((1+2) + (2+2) + (3+2) + (4+2) + (5+2) + (6+2))/6 = 5.5

You can perform some basic math operations to understand how the numbers play together.

((1+2) + (2+2) + (3+2) + (4+2) + (5+2) + (6+2))/6 = (1+2+3+4+5+6 + 12)/6 = (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 + 12/6 = (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 + 2 = 3.5+2 = d6+2
etc.

[Fishyninja]

Just FYI:

Horde Breaker is in every way better on a Monk than Colossus Slayer.

Horde Breaker = another opportunity to do a Stunning Strike, plus if you have Divine Favor running (the best DPR increase on a Monk), you apply that as well.
Hmm had not considered that........Will need to think on it.


Start simple. Getting a 6 from a d6 only has a 1/6th chance (6 sides, only one of them has a 6), so we use average. Dice average is just total of all the possible numbers divided by the total number of sides (the arithmetic mean).

d6 = (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 = 3.5
d8 = (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8)/8 = 4.5
etc.

Then add new bits, like Dueling.

d6+2 = ((1+2) + (2+2) + (3+2) + (4+2) + (5+2) + (6+2))/6 = 5.5

You can perform some basic math operations to understand how the numbers play together.

((1+2) + (2+2) + (3+2) + (4+2) + (5+2) + (6+2))/6 = (1+2+3+4+5+6 + 12)/6 = (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 + 12/6 = (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 + 2 = 3.5+2 = d6+2
etc.
Also this is extremely simple. Thank you for this :smallbiggrin:

[Davemeddlehed]

Not effectively, 1d6+2 is better than 1d8 (3-8 avg 5.5 vs 1-8 avg 5.5). Calling it a d8 if you have Dueling is actually lowballing.

So it effectively becomes 1d10, then. I hadn't thought of the implications all the way through. Good call!

[coredump]

Ok this is wear I suck at D&D calculating all the maths and averages, in my mind 6+2 = 8 therefore a 1d6+2 should be a 1d8 but it's not. Gah.

Going from D6 to D8 changes the *average* by 1 (3.5 to 4.5) Rolling a D6 then adding 1, also changes the average by 1.
So a D6+1 is effectively the same as a D8. While a D6+2 is effectively the same as a D10.



Just FYI:

Horde Breaker is in every way better on a Monk than Colossus Slayer.


Horde Breaker = another opportunity to do a Stunning Strike, plus if you have Divine Favor running (the best DPR increase on a Monk), you apply that as well.
Well..... in general I like Horde Breaker. But for a monk, CB isn't bad.

Horde breaker gives an extra attack, but Monk damage isn't that great, they do well by having a lot of attacks.
At level 7, a Horde Breaker attack; gives you a *chance* of doing extra damage; likely to be D8+4, or 8.5 damage. Lets say AC 15, so an 8 to hit, so 65% chance to hit, so about 5.5 extra damage per round.
With Collosus Slayer, if *any* attack hits, you get 4.5 damage that round.

Caveats:
With CS, the target needs to be injured, *or* you just need to hit twice. With 3-4 attacks, that isn't that hard.
With HB, There needs to be another creature within 5' of your target. This is often not the case, especially with the big boss (important) fights.
With HB, the 'extra' damage cannot be focused, it gets 'spread around' instead.

So, HB will do a small amount of damage more, it isn't as reliable, and can't be focused on the same target.

For my Archer, that only has 2 attacks per round, and does a lot of damage per attack, Horde Breaker makes a lot more sense. For the Monk, that does less damage per attack, CS makes as much or more sense.

[rbstr]

My feeling tends to be that a Ranger dipping monk for like 1-5, maybe 6 levels tops is going to help you do the non-spell Ranger stuff better in lots of cases.
You get (potentially) some AC and easy to use bonus action attack for one level. After that there's mobility, deflecting projectiles, some fun hit-and-run stuff ect. And it all just kinda works nice IMO. Not even counting the Monastic Tradition stuff.

Where a monk dipping ranger is maybe not getting a ton since stuff scales more with monk levels over all.

[Specter]

My feeling tends to be that a Ranger dipping monk for like 1-5, maybe 6 levels tops is going to help you do the non-spell Ranger stuff better in lots of cases.
You get (potentially) some AC and easy to use bonus action attack for one level. After that there's mobility, deflecting projectiles, some fun hit-and-run stuff ect. And it all just kinda works nice IMO. Not even counting the Monastic Tradition stuff.

Where a monk dipping ranger is maybe not getting a ton since stuff scales more with monk levels over all.

I feel exactly the opposite. Ranger benefits from Monk are getting an unarmed bonus strike (for archers, not dual-wielders), maybe +1AC relying on stats and some bonus-action reliant ki powers. Since rangers can use their bonus action for a lot of stuff, they don't amount to much. But a monk dipping ranger can find tools for both offense and utility, only by delaying his own progression.

[Fishyninja]

So I was thinking about it a little more. I know I orginally stated I wanted to see if a Ranger Dip would be suitable for a Monk and it seems so. Again I am unsure wheter I will or not, I will see when I get to level 5 and I'll see if I need to. Who knows I may not need to!

So moving away from the Ranger what about the Battlemaster? I can't think of a fluff reason as of yhet but the Maneuvers with the extra 1D8's and the inherent awesomeness of Monks....seems like a could combo!

[bid]

So, I am going to hit Level 4 soon so ASI/Feat Time. I am Unsure what to go for. Below are my stats:

Race: Wood Elf
HP: 28
AC: 17 (Unarmoured defence & +1 from Ring of Protection)
Str: 8 (-1)
Dex: 17 (+3)
Con: 14 (+2)
Int: 10 (-)
Wis: 16 (+3)
Cha: 8 (-1)
Archetype: Way of the Long Death


So, based on the information above I see a few options and I wanted your thoughts on them:


Boost Dex and Wis by 1 to give a +4 Modifier to Dex and my AC to 18
Boost my Wis to 18 to give a +2 to my Wis to give a +4 Modifier to Wis. Improving AC by 1 and Ki Save DC by 1
Boost Either my Str or Cha to 10 to remove negative Modifier
Pick the Spear Mastery Feat
You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make with a spear.
When you use a spear, its damage die changes from a d6 to a d8, and from a d8 to a d10 when wielded with two hands. (This benefit has no effect if another feature has already improved the weapon’s die.)
You can set your spear to receive a charge. As a bonus action, choose a creature you can see that is at least 20 feet away from you. If that creature moves within your spear’s reach on its next turn, you can make a melee attack against it with your spear as a reaction. If the attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 piercing damage, or an extra 1d10 piercing damage if you wield the spear with two hands. You can’t use this ability if the creature used the Disengage action before moving.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can increase your reach with a spear by 5 feet for the rest of your turn.




So Veteran players, please help a new player with this decision. Higher Attributes or a Feat upping my damage.
Late to the party, but...

Notice that had you started with Dex16, you could have had Cha10 and still spend your ASI for Dex18. See if your DM allows the AL pre-level-5 retrofit.

The spear mastery isn't that good, since your martial art die will improve. Mobile would allow you to step in, attack, step out, effectively giving you reach most of the time.

This leaves both Dex18 and Wis18 as interesting alternatives. Wis helps for stunning strike, Dex helps for raw damage.

[Fishyninja]

Late to the party, but...

Notice that had you started with Dex16, you could have had Cha10 and still spend your ASI for Dex18. See if your DM allows the AL pre-level-5 retrofit.

The spear mastery isn't that good, since your martial art die will improve. Mobile would allow you to step in, attack, step out, effectively giving you reach most of the time.

This leaves both Dex18 and Wis18 as interesting alternatives. Wis helps for stunning strike, Dex helps for raw damage.

Say What? I am some what confused, did I mess up by starting stats?

[bid]

Say What? I am some what confused, did I mess up by starting stats?
You started as 8 15+2 14 10 15+1 8.
You could have started as 8 14+2 14 10 15+1 10.
You still need an ASI for Dex18 and have nowhere to put that odd point.

In a way, you "messed up" by going with Dex17 for no gain. Odd stats are the tool of the devil!:smallbiggrin:

[rbstr]

I feel exactly the opposite. Ranger benefits from Monk are getting an unarmed bonus strike (for archers, not dual-wielders), maybe +1AC relying on stats and some bonus-action reliant ki powers. Since rangers can use their bonus action for a lot of stuff, they don't amount to much. But a monk dipping ranger can find tools for both offense and utility, only by delaying his own progression.

But that's like the best part of the monk dip: you basically get to dual wield with your dex mod without picking the fighting style. So you keep a free hand and can take dueling fighting style to work with a Monk-weapon in your main hand. But there's more! You can be stripped naked and hardly lose any effectiveness. For a one level dip that's a lot of good stuff.

In comparison PhB ranger offers really no combat stuff at lvl1. Revised's favored enemy and initiative advantage are pretty sweet though for a monk this is true.

[Saggo]

You started as 8 15+2 14 10 15+1 8.
You could have started as 8 14+2 14 10 15+1 10.
You still need an ASI for Dex18 and have nowhere to put that odd point.

In a way, you "messed up" by going with Dex17 for no gain. Odd stats are the tool of the devil!:smallbiggrin:

You could take Athlete for 18 Dex and some mobility.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

You started as 8 15+2 14 10 15+1 8.
You could have started as 8 14+2 14 10 15+1 10.
You still need an ASI for Dex18 and have nowhere to put that odd point.

In a way, you "messed up" by going with Dex17 for no gain. Odd stats are the tool of the devil!:smallbiggrin:

It's true, you should never start out at level 1 with one odd stat unless it's
1) a worthless stat to you or
2) you've figured out some way to even it out properly.

[Fishyninja]

You started as 8 15+2 14 10 15+1 8.
You could have started as 8 14+2 14 10 15+1 10.
You still need an ASI for Dex18 and have nowhere to put that odd point.

In a way, you "messed up" by going with Dex17 for no gain. Odd stats are the tool of the devil!:smallbiggrin:


It's true, you should never start out at level 1 with one odd stat unless it's
1) a worthless stat to you or
2) you've figured out some way to even it out properly.

Ah I am with you now, yeah when we built these characters we had the point buy system and I have to admit as it was my first time playing as a Monk, I used a few guides and many of them suggested I use those base states. I then just got the racial bonuses from Wood Elf.


You could take Athlete for 18 Dex and some mobility.
I see your point but surely only getting 1 ability increase and some movement bonuses is not worth 2 ability score increases?

My thoughts here is that as a Wood Elf my base movement score is 35ft and being a Monk I get unarmoured movement that scales nicely. I am currently at 45ft of base speed and it is just going to keep going up.
Don't get me wrong more movement is always good, however considering as my movement is just going to scale with level increase, increasing my jump speed and distance and my standing speed doesn't seem worth it.

I know I sound really negative I do not mean to be, I want to say thank you for your suggestion but I don't think it will fit my needs.

[djreynolds]

Fishyninja, are you kicking butt with this monk yet or what?

I wanna hear some stories of you kicking *ss.

Sounds like an awesome build, remember the monk my not score lots of goals (sorry abou the baseball reference so here is football one)... but he/she leads the team in assists.

[Fishyninja]

Fishyninja, are you kicking butt with this monk yet or what?

I wanna hear some stories of you kicking *ss.

Sounds like an awesome build, remember the monk my not score lots of goals (sorry abou the baseball reference so here is football one)... but he/she leads the team in assists.

Hey DJ (god that felt so 90's).....I got the football reference still suck at sports though (apart from fencing, archery, shooting :P) Anyway......The backstory of the character is abandoned Wood Elf at a monastery devoted to Kelemvor, raised by the Monks, assisted with Funerary Rites etc. then was told by my master (a former Doomguide) about the abominations that wander the land I have made it my job to rid the land of them and to lay to rest all those who have no one to care for them so you asked for a story.....I present to you Story:

Oh for new players, possible Lost Mines of Phandelver Spoilers ahead.

Party Make Up

Inomminate - Wood Elf Monk (Way of the Long Death)
Nadarr Clanless - Half Elf Ranger (Hunter)
Nor Corinn Half Elf - Warlock
Aideen Bloodsalt - Changeling Bard {We are unaware she is a changeling}

So, we have been tasked with entering the lair of the Redbrands and clearing them out and killing/capturing their leader. We have been informed that the Redbrands have managed to kidnap a local woodworker and we have agreed to try and rescue him.

So, we understand that running in gung-ho will be a problem so we have managed to grab two Redbrand Uniforms and have asked the local blacksmith for some manacles (we asked him to make sure they can be opened by a prisoner).

Anyway, we make our way to the lair, Aideen casts Invisibility on Nor Corinn and her and Nadarr change into their uniforms and they manacle me (Innominate).

We enter the unguarded lair, which appears to be small underground cistern. Inadvertently we stumble across four guards, seeing this shackled elf they decide to have some fun with him (egged on by Nadarr and Aideen) as one of them gets closer Innominate flips over the closest Redbrand and as he lands he wraps the chain of the manacle around the Redbrands neck, snapping it instantly! As the other Redbrands are so shocked by what has happening Innominate has the time to unlock one of the other manacles and whips it out to knock out another while Nadarr and Aideen subdue the others. We pull them into a storage room to deal with later. Innominate re-shackles himself.

We know we must rescue this Woodworker as well as taking out the leader so we decide to get the non-combatants out of there first. We eventually stumble onto the prison and find a few women and children in shackles and one sole guard who again falls to a surprise attack from Nadarr, we release the prisoners and guide them out and then lock all the dead, unconscious guards in one of the cells.

As we progress through the dungeon we find a cave system where there is a single stone bridge crossing a 25ft chasm. As we enter we hear a rasping voice in our mind telling us to leave, we ignore it and move in closer and are presented with a Nothic standing on the bridge. Aideen using her charisma convinces the Nothic to let us pass if we can feed it so we feed it some of our rations and move on, however unbeknownst to us Nor Corin (whom is still invisible) has dropped into the cavern and found a chest and has decided to loot it.

Moving on we find a corridor to the north and south, we split up and sneak along we find that they lead to two doors that appear to lead to the same room, from peeking in the keyhole I can see 4 Redbrands gambling. I signal to Nadarr to give me his Redbrand Uniform and his face scarf to try and hide my ears. I enter (along with Aideen) and enter the throng of the Redbrands. Aideen and I play a round of cards with them and luckily win clearing them out of most of their cash, we then create a story about our party raising hell in town and we manage to convince 3 out of 4 of them to follow us.

We run back into the cavern and I tell the Redbrands to go on ahead as I need to take a leak so I stand by the Chasm, whisper and apology to the Nothic and pretend to pee. The guards are not buying it and come over to me to see what is going one so I decide to throw one into the pit (letting the Nothic deal with it). The second I fight with my stowed Manacles. Aideen shoots the final one in the back. Afterwards she calmly informs me that my *ahem* staff had been on show that entire fight.
Suitable embarrassed I tidy myself. Because of the Ruckus we feel that being stealthy has now gone out of the window. so, we storm the room and subdue the final Redbrand. Opposite the gambling room we hear grunts coming from a small room, Nadarr considers the keyhole and sees some Bugbears picking on a Goblin, Aideen's motherly instincts kick in (she's a tad broody) reapplies her redbrand disguise and storms in and commands Droop to follow her the Bugbears try to stop her but she is a force or Charisma and they are left bereft in this room. Now we are in a situation where we either leave the Bugbears alone or clear them out. We have decided that the town is not well defended and with little to no militia or training the Bugbears could cause problems so we are going to clear them out.

Aideen mentions she spotted a few oil lanterns lighting the room. Nadaar heads back to the gambling room and grabs a couple of chairs, he nods at where he thinks Nor Corin is and nocks an Arrow. The invisible Nor Corin opens the door, which confuses the Bug Bears, casts Eldritch Blast on one of the lanterns while Nadarr leans around the corner and loses an arrow at the other lantern. Both projectiles hit detonating the lamps spraying hot burning oil over the bugbears, Aideen then chucks in a small oil flask she uses for her lute into the room causing the fire to exponentially increase. We then ram the door shut and stick the chair under the door handle. We wait in silence until they have died.

We get some information from Droop give him some clothes and rations and send him on his way. We clear the lair but no leader to be found however we find some information pertaining to the leader and his whereabouts we also go to the subdued Redbrand in the gambling room and find out that the Woodworker is dead. Feeling proud of ourselves we leave through the cavern and run into the pissed off Nothic whom is demanding his treasure back. We convince Nor Corrin to hand back the treasure and leave the lair. We all head off and turn in some side quests and then head to the Stonehill Inn. Nor Corin, Nadarr and I are getting quite heavy into the drink. I am trying to convince Nadarr that bows are ineffective hunting weapons and fists are better and we are having a grand old time.

Aideen has gone to the Woodworkers wife who is devastated and starts panicking about what she will do and how she has nothing of her husband to remind her of him.
Aideen furious at this goes back to the inn finds us drinking and laughing away and walks directly to innominate and slaps him in the face....hard and starts laying into him about not bringing the Woodworker back, even his body......Innominate realising he has shamed his tenents gets up and runs (slightly drunkenly) to the lair. The party follow.

We make our way back to the lair, many of the unconscious red brands are still locked up in the cells, I pull out any dead ones and lay them in the foyer for later. We go room to room, dragging the dead to foyer with me continuously muttering prayers under my breath. Now we have to retrieve the Woodworker from the Nothic's Chasm. We enter the Chasm and try to appease the Nothic and ask that all we want is the body it refuses and attacks. I plead to the others to keep it busy. I jump down into the chasm and using ropes I bind the woodworkers body and a few others together and throw the rope up. The others are trading blows with the Nothic. I climb out of the chasm and spend the next two turns of combat lighting incense and saying prayers over the body *Narrators Note: All of us apart from Aideen have Disadvantage due to being drunk*.
I finalise the rites and we plead with the Nothic to stop fighting it refuses and we kill it. Innominate not knowing anything about Nothics improvises and places its body under the Bridge where it's treasure chest is, he placed a small cairn of stones around it and place a copper piece in its mouth and a gold piece for the ferryman.

We then go to the burnt-out room and bring out the bugbears. Innominate spends the next 8 hours dragging bodies out of the lair digging graves and with the help of Sister Geralia, a local cleric administering the last rites to all the deceased, the bugbears, the redbrands and the Woodworker. Innominate then hands over 100gp to the Woodworkers wife and says to her to obtain the finest wood she can, then her son can create the tombstone for his father, that way he can hone his skills and honour his father. If there is money left over, he they can use it to make more tombstones or keep it.

The party pay their respects, inform the mayor of the unconscious and unarmed Redbrands in the lair and then retire for the night.

[djreynolds]

This is great... but when did the wood worker buy the farm... died. Did you guys accidently cook him?

3 levels of rogue sounds like the best dip for you, swashbuckler allows you to sneak attack any lone opponent... just use a short sword, 2d6 extra a turn, grab expertise for stealth and something else.

And fancy foot work is just about as good as mobile, and with uncanny dodge you dash or disengage or hide as a BA.

[Saggo]

I see your point but surely only getting 1 ability increase and some movement bonuses is not worth 2 ability score increases?
Maybe, maybe not. It's just one more way of getting an odd ability score to be even without wasting a point. Going from -1 to +0 in Strength or Charisma or +0 to +1 in Intelligence will likely affect your game as much as Athlete, even for a Monk. A Monk knocked prone at level 20 will take 30' or so just to stand up, harsh penalty.

Neither option is inherently stronger. Decide which you want, and it seems like you did.

[Fishyninja]

Maybe, maybe not. It's just one more way of getting an odd ability score to be even without wasting a point. Going from -1 to +0 in Strength or Charisma or +0 to +1 in Intelligence will likely affect your game as much as Athlete, even for a Monk. A Monk knocked prone at level 20 will take 30' or so just to stand up, harsh penalty.

Neither option is inherently stronger. Decide which you want, and it seems like you did.

Hmmm I did not realise the getting up from prone penalty stacked with level I assumed it was a base 5-10ft of movement. Me thinks I may need to revaluate my thoughts on this Feat.

[Fishyninja]

This is great... but when did the wood worker buy the farm... died. Did you guys accidently cook him?

3 levels of rogue sounds like the best dip for you, swashbuckler allows you to sneak attack any lone opponent... just use a short sword, 2d6 extra a turn, grab expertise for stealth and something else.

And fancy foot work is just about as good as mobile, and with uncanny dodge you dash or disengage or hide as a BA.

The Redbrands took him and were going to use him as a hostage but he thought back they ran him through and left his corpse with the Nothic for nommy nom times.

You think its great, I dunno why but I'm chuffed about that, I felt I might have being a bit overkill with trying to flip over guards and stuff but I was on the Mind set of if I can I might as well.

[djreynolds]

It was great. It sounds like fun and your bard and warlock work well together, I like the mommy bard.

Sounds like a fun group.

[diplomancer]

also, see if there is any other half feat you would like to take. If yes, then on your next ASI you bump dex and whatever the other ability is by 1, and in the second asi you get that half feat

[Saggo]

Hmmm I did not realsie the getting up from prone pentaly stacked with level I assumed it was a base 5-10ft of movement. Me thinks I may need to revaluate my thoughts on this Feat.

Standing up from prone is half your movement.

I'm just pointing out the option. +1 to a few off skills and save is good too.

[Fishyninja]

It was great. It sounds like fun and your bard and warlock work well together, I like the mommy bard.

Sounds like a fun group.

This is great... but when did the wood worker buy the farm... died. Did you guys accidently cook him?

3 levels of rogue sounds like the best dip for you, swashbuckler allows you to sneak attack any lone opponent... just use a short sword, 2d6 extra a turn, grab expertise for stealth and something else.

And fancy foot work is just about as good as mobile, and with uncanny dodge you dash or disengage or hide as a BA.
They are a good group, I really enjoy the interactions we have and how it goes. I was considering Rogue or Fighter Dips. I'll ask about Swashbuckler


also, see if there is any other half feat you would like to take. If yes, then on your next ASI you bump dex and whatever the other ability is by 1, and in the second asi you get that half feat
Indeed a good idea.


Maybe, maybe not. It's just one more way of getting an odd ability score to be even without wasting a point. Going from -1 to +0 in Strength or Charisma or +0 to +1 in Intelligence will likely affect your game as much as Athlete, even for a Monk. A Monk knocked prone at level 20 will take 30' or so just to stand up, harsh penalty.

Neither option is inherently stronger. Decide which you want, and it seems like you did.

Standing up from prone is half your movement.

I'm just pointing out the option. +1 to a few off skills and save is good too.

Hmmm you know what it is a good feat, and also I was thinking about Mobile as well (yes I know I said earlier I wanted a different build) but Mobile seems so good, disengage without Ki use, thats amazing.

[djreynolds]

Fancy footwork does this at 3rd for free, cunning action does this at 2nd for the cost of bonus action. And mobile is a feat.

Way the cost of 2-3 levels in rogue before you grab mobile.

The great thing about fighter and rogue, cheap front loaded dips.

Maybe save that feat for HEX, great thing about magic initiate, 2 cantrips, 1 spell, no minimum requirement like a 13

It does sound like a good party

[Fishyninja]

LADIES AND GENTLEMAN.....BOYS AND GIRLS.....LEVELLING TIMES HERE!

Because of an Epic Session our party jumped from 2700xp to 3400xp so I levelled!

*Happy Dance*

Anyway so here are the stats now:



Race: Wood Elf
HP: 38
AC: 18 (Unarmoured defence & +1 from Ring of Protection)
Str: 8 (-1)
Dex: 18 (+4)
Con: 14 (+2)
Int: 10 (-)
Wis: 16 (+3)
Cha: 8 (-1)
Archetype: Way of the Long Death

Feats

Athlete

Weapons

Master Maloweth's Walking Staff (Quarterstaff)
Curtana (Short Sword)
Sariel's Silence (Masterwork Quarterstaff)
Cae Bulg (Spear)
Darts


So first of all. Thank you all for your suggestions and input.
I decided to go with Athlete after speaking to Saggo on here and here is my reasoning:

That plus one puts my AC, Initiative, Damage, Attack, Skills and Saves. This now allows me to either max my Dex next ASI or bump up my Wis to the next modifier level (So 20/16 at Level 4 or 18/18 at level 4) from there I can either just max those stats, or add some con or go for another feat/level dip.
As well as that only needing 5ft to stand up from prone is handy (allows me to charge the enemy casters/archers) lie prone if needs be, get up and keep running (A rare situation I know but you know).

Also climbing not costing extra movement is handy! Our party likes sneaking around so being able to climb up to my movement distance is great!
And only using 5ft for a long/high jump, imagine the martial arts roleplaying I can do!
I have also considered this with the level 9 upgrade to Unarmoured Movement, my RAI (as well as my DM) is that along means in a horizontal rather than vertical movement.

I am still considering MC'ing (but we'll see). Here are the choices:


Fighter Level 2 - Second Wind, Action Surge.
Fighter/Battle Master Level 3 - Second Wind, Action Surge and Manoeuvres
Ranger/Hunter Level 3 - Favoured Enemy, Fighting style (Duelling), Colossus Slayer, Spells
Rogue Level 2, Sneak Attack - Expertise, Sneak Attack, Thieves Cant, Cunning Action
Blood Hunter - For RP reasons and also extra damage of the bat. Should also go well with my WOTLD Monk (Use that Temp HP to bolster the health I have used in the Crimson rite!


So that is the plan for Innominate so far, but you never know, the way this game has been going it may all change!

[Apostle3]

I hate to be a party pooper. But hunters mark isn't as good for a monk as you think. Hunters mark only works for weapon attacks so no bonus action unarmed strike or flurry of blows with hunters mark.

Well the problem with that statement, is assuming you aren't trained in martial arts. Even if you have weapons in both hands, you still have feet, elbows, a forehead...etc. It depends on how you declare your attacks.
Furthermore...most DM's I've played with consider the weapons monks are allowed to use AS unarmed strikes, when they apply the dice modifier. It's one thing to swing a dagger, its quite a different scenario to maneuver it using martial arts. As the damage is overwritten by the monk unarmed strike ability, it then BECOMES their "unarmed strike".