Sheogoroth
2016-12-29, 02:47 PM
Inspired by This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?410846-The-Redeemery-Saving-Souls-for-Good-and-Profit-Work-in-Progress) Thread.
It seemed to me that any Lawful character, even a Evil one would absolutely benefit from redeeming as many NPCs as they could get their hands on.
It's a little absurd on the surface, but typically an evil character isn't evil because he just loves evil, an evil character might fdo evil because it's expedient, cost-effective, or at least seems so in the moment. So let's say our LE wizard gets his hands on a hill giant through nonlethal damage. That wizard is 6th level, much too low leveled for dominate monster!
But let us say he takes advantage of that Hill Giant's +4 will save to beat him into a neutral or good alignment, then maximizes that meager 6 int to advantage and convinces the Giant to becoming his personal bodyguard, prestidigitationing rainbows instead of blood from the corpses of anyone he slays.
The question then seems, is this possible for an evil or neutral character to accomplish? It seems like it to me. What do you think?
Here are the rules for redemption. It's a little wordy, but this is directly from BOE
First, the captors must treat the prisoner with truly exceptional
care and respect—far better than the prisoner knows he
would treat the characters if the situation were reversed. Initially,
an evil character might greet this treatment with scorn
and look for opportunities to escape. When he finds the good
characters gentle but firm, kind but smart in their defenses, he
gains a new degree of respect for them, gleaning at least a glimmer
of an idea that one needn’t be cruel to be strong.
Second, the captors must display a willingness to forgive the
evil that the prisoner has done. If their conversation is laced
with talk of punishing their captive, or gleeful anticipation of
the punishment he will receive when they turn him over to the
authorities, he sees little purpose in even contemplating a
change of heart, instead directing all his energies toward escaping
the grim fate they have planned for him. As discussed in
Chapter 1, the possibility of forgiveness is essential in demonstrating
that redemption is possible.
Third, a good character must spend at least an hour every day
with the prisoner, encouraging him to talk about the evil he has
done, and in turn describing the benefits and rewards of the life
of good. This task is best performed by a cleric who can speak
with authority not only about mortal forgiveness, but also
divine mercy. Often it is important for a villain to know that the
deities of good will welcome him as a worshiper.
Each day this conversation takes place, even if it begins rather
one-sided, the good character makes a Diplomacy check. The
evil character then makes a special Will save, adding his level as
a bonus on the saving throw, against a DC equal to the good
character’s Diplomacy check result. The DM can give the same
circumstance bonus on the Diplomacy check as for checks
made to interrogate prisoners. Creatures whose alignments are
listed as “always” a specific alignment, and characters who
would lose class abilities if they changed alignment (including
evil clerics and blackguards), gain a +4 bonus on their Will
saves. Outsiders with the Evil subtype are immune to redemption
in this manner. Neutral (neither good nor evil) characters
take a –2 penalty on their Will saves. Creatures who have been
enthralled by an emissary of Barachiel (see Chapter 5) or who
have been subject to the vision of heaven spell (see Chapter 6)
take penalties on their Will saves.
If an evil character fails seven saving throws in a row at any
point during the process of redemption, the evil component of
his alignment changes to neutral. If a neutral character (including
a formerly evil character who has already failed seven saves)
fails seven saving throws in a row, his alignment changes to
good. The change is permanent.
It seemed to me that any Lawful character, even a Evil one would absolutely benefit from redeeming as many NPCs as they could get their hands on.
It's a little absurd on the surface, but typically an evil character isn't evil because he just loves evil, an evil character might fdo evil because it's expedient, cost-effective, or at least seems so in the moment. So let's say our LE wizard gets his hands on a hill giant through nonlethal damage. That wizard is 6th level, much too low leveled for dominate monster!
But let us say he takes advantage of that Hill Giant's +4 will save to beat him into a neutral or good alignment, then maximizes that meager 6 int to advantage and convinces the Giant to becoming his personal bodyguard, prestidigitationing rainbows instead of blood from the corpses of anyone he slays.
The question then seems, is this possible for an evil or neutral character to accomplish? It seems like it to me. What do you think?
Here are the rules for redemption. It's a little wordy, but this is directly from BOE
First, the captors must treat the prisoner with truly exceptional
care and respect—far better than the prisoner knows he
would treat the characters if the situation were reversed. Initially,
an evil character might greet this treatment with scorn
and look for opportunities to escape. When he finds the good
characters gentle but firm, kind but smart in their defenses, he
gains a new degree of respect for them, gleaning at least a glimmer
of an idea that one needn’t be cruel to be strong.
Second, the captors must display a willingness to forgive the
evil that the prisoner has done. If their conversation is laced
with talk of punishing their captive, or gleeful anticipation of
the punishment he will receive when they turn him over to the
authorities, he sees little purpose in even contemplating a
change of heart, instead directing all his energies toward escaping
the grim fate they have planned for him. As discussed in
Chapter 1, the possibility of forgiveness is essential in demonstrating
that redemption is possible.
Third, a good character must spend at least an hour every day
with the prisoner, encouraging him to talk about the evil he has
done, and in turn describing the benefits and rewards of the life
of good. This task is best performed by a cleric who can speak
with authority not only about mortal forgiveness, but also
divine mercy. Often it is important for a villain to know that the
deities of good will welcome him as a worshiper.
Each day this conversation takes place, even if it begins rather
one-sided, the good character makes a Diplomacy check. The
evil character then makes a special Will save, adding his level as
a bonus on the saving throw, against a DC equal to the good
character’s Diplomacy check result. The DM can give the same
circumstance bonus on the Diplomacy check as for checks
made to interrogate prisoners. Creatures whose alignments are
listed as “always” a specific alignment, and characters who
would lose class abilities if they changed alignment (including
evil clerics and blackguards), gain a +4 bonus on their Will
saves. Outsiders with the Evil subtype are immune to redemption
in this manner. Neutral (neither good nor evil) characters
take a –2 penalty on their Will saves. Creatures who have been
enthralled by an emissary of Barachiel (see Chapter 5) or who
have been subject to the vision of heaven spell (see Chapter 6)
take penalties on their Will saves.
If an evil character fails seven saving throws in a row at any
point during the process of redemption, the evil component of
his alignment changes to neutral. If a neutral character (including
a formerly evil character who has already failed seven saves)
fails seven saving throws in a row, his alignment changes to
good. The change is permanent.