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Kaveman26
2016-12-29, 04:06 PM
If you followed my necromancer campaign not much more explanation is needed. If not I am looking for feedback on a follow up to a long running evil player campaign. The group reached the high teens and in essence conquered the world, I am eventually going to bring them back together for our first foray into "epic" levels. Have a few skeletons of scenarios in mind that I was looking for input on. Group is synergized for necromancy and formed around being able to lob loads of bolstered undead at just about any problem. System is pathfinder. Full breakdowns on group composition are included from the campaign thread but in short their are:

2 Undead Lord Clerics (dhampir liches)

1 Gravewalker Witch (Half Elf-Vampire)

1 Graveknight Antipaladin (Nagaji)

1 Dirge Bard/Agent of the Grave (Aasimer Shadow Lord Vampire)

1 Barbarian/Scarred Witch Doctor/Eldritch Knight (Half Orc/Half Dragon Giant)




I have deemed myself adequately recovered from the debauched sadism that was the necromancer’s campaign to begin work on the second leg of those character’s journey. When I left off they had parted their separate ways having eliminated the threat of Jaze and extorting a peace treaty with the Illithid. For the purposes of the campaign a full century has passed wherein the players have each carved out seats of power for themselves.

Here is what I am certain of: (or mostly certain of…feedback will possibly alter things)


They will be reuniting to mark the century and receive the Illithid Envoy for the first time.

Characters will be level 20 and will be given capacity to retrain their characters layouts.

Each character is going to be given a unique Player/DM created aspect specific to their character. For Azzie’s purposes something High Priest of Hastur as a template with special talents/feats baked in.

I want to continue the Mega-Dungeon theme


What I am Considering:


Scenario 1: The Illithid No Show


The envoy does not arrive, instead a single pleading message comes in their place with the warning that the machines now think for themselves. In an extension of Jaze as a sentient bodiless form a Borg like Death Star has breached the barrier between machine and mind. It is pulling the souls and consciousness of all it encounters and placing them into mechanical bodies. Intelligent undead simply fall over inert or vanish as their minds are sucked into golem type hosts all subservient to a central intelligence. Wraiths take on cybernetic forms that are both metal and incorporeal. They are neither good nor evil, but slow and unyielding in their subjugation of all things living and dead.

Similiarties to Terminator, Skynet, Borg, Cybermen etc.

What I like: Seems to fit the concept and spirit of the initial campaign. A Death Star type dungeon could be intriguing.

Dislikes: Feels a bit too cliché and perhaps too similar to the first campaign.


Scenario 2: Too Deep and Too Greedily

A fragment of the initial breach has expanded and become a rift to the Lovecraftian chasms where sanity shatters. An eerie not quite existence pulls in the group where they must confront a reality where they are deemed the aliens and outsiders. Emphasis on horror and aberration.


Likes: If developed properly would be original and new.

Dislikes: They may deem it a vacation instead of an abomination.


Scenario 3:

The Awakening. The conquest and evolution of the necroranchers powers has caused a force long since faded to legend to reawaken. A continent rises where being of immeasureable power rise to extinguish this dangerous new flame.


Scenario 4:

The Grimoire of Cenobis Hallum: The Twins accidentally pull an Ash from Evil Dead and incant a passage that releases the spirt of the most vile and powerful necromancer in history. A being of such staggering malice that the gods themselves locked him, threw away the key and then wiped their own memories as to where he was housed. Such was his cruelty and skill that Heaven and Hell combined their resources to create an obuilette to hold him. Pit Fiends will exist hand in hand with Solars to safeguard this necromancer from being freed.

Likes: I could see this being bonkers and wild

Dislikes: None.



Looking for feedback and input as to what sounds the most promising. Leaning towards 1 or 4 but have not commited to any one idea yet.

Freed
2016-12-29, 04:55 PM
I think scenario four would be so much fun. 2 seems like it would be a close second. 3 and 1 seem kinda cliche, and 3 is like every other movie or TV show. (blank) does (blank) causing an ancient evil to awaken.

Kol Korran
2016-12-30, 08:12 AM
Hi there. I managed to finish reading the cattle ranchers campaign only recently (Too little free time. Took me a looooong While). I'm eagerly anticipating the continued adventures. However, a few questions if I may:
1. Is another megadungeon viable at these high levels?
I've never played at Epic levels, but I gathered that the original game design of dungeons doesn't hold. With the powers at those levels, your admirable willingness to be flexible and enable clever ideas, and the party resourcefulness, won't it be highly likely they'll just find quick/ easy ways to bypass most of it?
2. Do the players wish another megadungeon?
From the summary of the previous campaign, I got the impression they are more interested in "playing the BIG game" now- As major world forces, with nations/ cults/ Empires to wield. I also got the impression that thrun might want to Duke themselves against each other? Battle for supreme world conquest?
What sort if a continued experience are they looking for?

Out if your ideas, 1 & 4 do sound the most appealing. I think it would be great to have the rise if the PCs to such powers be involved in the origins of the new threat. While 4 is intriguing, it feels a bit like "so.... another necromancer...". It may indeed be very powerful, yet at Epic levels, I think the idea is that the party faces forces that are of the making of the multivitamin, not just "powerful threats". Also, with your group's focus on necromancy and high ingenuity, this might actually work a lother in their favor. (Which could be a we awesome, but very complex time counter at these power levels).

If I may suggest a few other ideas? Either new, or modifications...
5. Into death itself:
The balance between positive and negative energy has always been preserved. Well, until the necromancer came to be. With theirexpansion, they tipped the scales, and now the raw energies of oblivion, of decay, of utter death and nihilism itself are pouring into the world and reality. The world is dying, in an increasing rate. Undead become more numerous, more powerful, harder to control. The very gods and primal forces of death seep and directly affect the world, and many forms of magic, and basic "natural laws" break down.

The gods (and other entities ) get directly engaged. This campaign may start as a sort of a mystery, yet quickly turns into chaos, assuch forces try to fix/ use/ build upon Yvette coming of death.

And the twist is that the PC's very existence is the source if the problem. They became sort of siphons / gates/ focuses of the negative energy overrun. So all wish to control/ kill/ ally with them, and in order to "stem the tide", the PCs may need to die. Or just some of them? How would they decide? Or will they fight over it?

6. Death gauntlet:
The PC's power drew an eerie attention- of Death itself. Intrigued, and for it's own reasons, it draws the party into it's own realm, time challenge them, in various complex and supernatural ways. Everything ends, do death can draw from any possible resource.
But why are they there? The power of death decays even the entity which is it's personification ( Or entities? Hmmmm..
). And the time has come for death to look for a replacement. One (or but a few) of the party.

The game can easily be played like a vast highly supernatural "challenge gauntlet " test, either with one entity as "death" or a few. The party may not know who is testing them at first, or what for, yet their powers might well put wrinkles even in death's designs... who shall be the new God(s) of death?

7. We rule this world! What about other worlds?
The party rules the world, and their hunger increases. When but a small delegation from the illogical come, they learn that there is some struggle in space/ their galaxy, with several strong factions and no clear resolution. The illogical have grown significantly weaker (perhaps the secrets their overminds kept finally leaked, which caused a revolution that greatly disturbed their power?)
The PC's cease this opportunity, and with their own megadungeon / spaceship, and info gotten from the visiting spaceship (nicely or... not so nicely ), they set out yo conquer the universe!

This is a more complex game, as it needs both rules for space travel and such, and army fighting possibly. I think PF is developing a set of rules for space, and there has Bern some other project on similar lines (Aesthera I think?), and there is always spelljammer. You can have several Cool factions, and a sort of "dungeon of star systems" with "corridors" made by system portals/ space gates or such. The party finds later on that controlling some key location/ resource will ensure their control, but till then they need to deal with alien factions, invade worlds, and so on...

It makes a few interesting challenges: Learning about space travel first. They will probably also be able to bring but a part of their accumulated resources, troops and power for the trip, outfitting their vessel (which was initially a research vessel), and magic itself might not work as easily/ readily as it did in their world... perhaps it drew power fro. The world itself (or the emanation of the undertake?) And the farther they go, the more limited/ costly it gets?

8. Hell on earth:
A bit similar to the first idea, at least in origin, if not actual play: The PCs depravity have tipped some cosmic balance between good and evil, thus enabling devil/ demon/ fiendish kind to finally cross the chasm /barrier/ divide that stopped them from pouting into the world. Yet now the invasion has started! Yes, the PCs now ruke the world, but can they withstand the in-flight of Hell's armies?
Asmodeus has it's eyes on you!

I know little of the planes and cosmology, and you can easily change stuff to suit your needs, but I think fiends may be very appropriate enemies for your party. Also, with the party's ruthless rule over the world, most good aligned factions, forces and resources (which may have greatly benefitted the current situation) are hidden/ weakened or unavailable.

Again this may call for army rules, but I think bringing Hellish and planar traits and magic into the game, dealing with various fiendish overlords and factions, and trying to outsmart/ outmanipulate /overcome the manifestations of Evil is right up your party's alley!

just some ideas. Good luck!

Traab
2016-12-30, 03:16 PM
I like the sound of #4, it comes across as a properly epic level event, is clearly a big enough threat to issue a recall for the party and for them to actually come together again, and by its very nature, they wont have the advantage or disadvantage really. Its necromancer versus necromancer. I have to admit I would be very interested to read an epic level campaign like this. It might be nice to see what kind of gear the party has created for themselves over all these years as well. I imagine it must be nice. :p The other upside is, I honestly found them dealing with a sci fi setting as magical beings a bit jarring, so with this they will be on familiar turf.

As for the party members themselves, I really want to see what they are capable of now, what they will show up with, and how quickly they will lose it all and struggle to rebuild upon the start of the adventure. I am imagining them showing up with things like fully buffed and armed undead minions from high level battles. Powerful thralls for the vampire types, and gear the likes of which this world hasnt seen in thousands of years, all hand crafted from the various guide books they stole from the illithid ship. I also want to see what sort of unique powers you will grant these guys.


Ok, some ideas for the mega dungeon that can incorporate a lot of cool stuff. Mister ultimate necromancer. You wanna know what was so dangerous about him that it made all the gods and devils unite to seal him away? He intended to reach the metaphorical heart of the prime plane, kill it, and raise it as his own. (Think modified sephiroth strategy) The entire plane and everything on it would have become his, all its power, all its resources, and with its connection to so many other planes, it could have easily spread in every direction.

Upon accidentally freeing this necromancer, he has made quick progress into the caves and caverns of the planet. Your band of merry murderers have to catch up to him and stop him before he can reach this "Heart of the World" and corrupt it, claiming its power for his own. So in addition to various underdark style monsters, we also have an ancient necromancer raising long forgotten abominations from times long past. Fossilized remains of dungeons and dragons versions of ancient dinosaurs, and other powerful creatures. (Should be easy to modify for an epic campaign, right?) All being left behind to delay your group as he makes his way to the planets core. The party gets to deal with friends and foes all over the place. People and beings who (rightfully) blame the party for this mess in the first place, others who want to offer their aid because they arent strong enough to stop him again, etc etc etc.

Alent
2016-12-30, 03:39 PM
I suggest a combination of 1, 3, and 4.

The Twins free an ancient evil necromancer, resulting in a protracted war between the Necroranchers and the Necromancer. This battle grows to epic proportions, involving the world's other remaining powers (Am I remembering wrong that they intentionally didn't exterminate everybody?), which attracts the Jazeborg shortly before the next Illithid check in is due. Amid the three way free for all, which will undoubtedly see the Necroranchers making full use of their diplomacy options, the Illithid message in a bottle arrives, identifying the threat.

The Illithid message in a bottle initially warns the Necroranchers, then upon detecting the Jazeborg it pulls on a target of opportunity: Removed from the memory off the original ship's researchers, the Illithid subdued and altered the Tarrasque of the Necrorancher's world then sealed it away as a failed experiment, but one too large to contain within their ark. Once programmed by the message in a bottle, the Tarrasque awakens. As a result of the tampering it has been growing as it sleeps, so as it rises... it's initially mistaken for a continent completely covered with a single massive city based on that one RPG.net post about building an entire civilization around a restrained Tarrasque.

Necroranchers vs World vs Necromancer vs JazeBorg vs Tarrasque blooded Sea Trolls vs the Illithid touched Tarrasque.

Six way free for all. Just like the Necroranchers like it. :smallbiggrin:

Kaveman26
2016-12-31, 09:20 AM
Their preference is to continue wreaking havoc through whatever means enabled. I got a "whatever you want" in terms of something more open world or still one location centric. I posed the PvP they teased themselves leading into as any actual gaming thing and not just a prose or flavor element and while they like the idea of it the execution is something they weren't on board for. It basically became a discussion about alliances and how they would shatter. The twins would become a virtual auto alliance, forcing a coalition between at least two other party members. It degenerated into a candid backstabbing discussion where they decided teaming up would be more gaming fun.


I feel like the Heaven and Hell collided on earth aspect in some means combined with the Mechanical Intelligence is what I want to head towards. I teased the thought of the necromancer soul commandeering a mechanical prison world and piloting it back towards earth but that felt a bit too much like ground we tread with the Tapestries and Coe way back when.

I evolved the Mechanical concept into a hybrid of Tyrannids from 40K and Kythons from Vile Darkness. Was thinking that all Planar travel has been disjointed due to the arrival of a living cybernetic hiveplanet/ship. That the kythons have evolved to incorporate living technology into themselves and they were drawn to the fissures created during the prison break involving Jaze. With the Planes in anarchy the majority of inhabitants have been expelled to earth and communications with the Pantheons are scrambled. Facing the bastard offspring of Demon and Devil combined everything in heaven and hell is looking for a safe port til the storm passes. The only safe port on the plane is the Ark. From a thematic standpoint....

The Demons know Kythons are nasty and an abomination

The Devils know Kythons are nasty and an abomination

The Angels know anything deemed an abomination by those two groups has to be a SEVERE problem.

The ultimate Enemy of My Enemy is My Ally type scenario.

Location Ideas:

The Ark becomes a base of operations and a literal Ark to protect the collected denizens now refugees from their native planes. As outsiders when killed they would normally return to their native plane, but the disjunction created by the Kython Hiveship is rerouting their "souls" to cybernetic hosts subservient to the Emperor of the Kythons. They have to shelter and protect all outsiders or they reinforce the Kythons.

The Hive-Ship would become a figurative mega dungeon of it's own.

Perhaps make it a pseudo interstellar Indiana Jones romp. Penetrating the Ship is the end goal but they need to galavant through the stars to uncover relics needed to protect themselves or breach the Emperors defenses.

Let me know if you think this could be an intriguing jaunt.

GnomishPride
2017-01-02, 08:27 PM
Big fan of the original campaign log, but I think my favorite part of the megadungeon campaign was the many factions and constant backstabbing, not the megadungeon component itself. The more crazy factions you can throw in, the better (up a point, obviously). Maybe combine several of your ideas into a multi-cataclysm? Whatever you decide on, I'm sure it'll be amazing. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

Bad Wolf
2017-01-03, 12:46 AM
I like the kython idea. Though the necromancer idea is also appealing. Another necromancer might be the only thing that could change their usual strategy of throwing undead at it if it's hostile, and backstabbing it if it's not.

Though you'll want to be careful with the necromancer idea. They might feel a bit useless that way. Maybe an aura that disrupts the control of undead, making them rely on a small elite group of undead instead of hordes?

Though if I must decide right now, I'd choose the kython-Borg idea. How would you plan on statting them out mechanically? Kythons with PC levels?

Kol Korran
2017-01-05, 12:44 PM
Hey Kaveman. As I said, I have little time to post, so it took me a bit.

I like the idea, but I don't quite understand the outsiders (angels, demons, devils and such) place in the game. They come to the arc and... try to take it from the PCs? Seek refuge in it? (In which case, are the PCs supposed to settle disputes? Choose sides?) Do the PCs need to seek out outsiders to protect them and prevent their essence being drawn to the hive ship?

And what when they seek the hive ship? What do the pitfiends/ solars do then? Are they the PCs high level outsiders' host army?

I just don't quite understand their intended role, other than show "Yep, the mecha-kython are Scaaaarryy!" What other sort of function do they serve?

Ice
2017-01-14, 02:03 AM
It was my impression they were like zombies... spreading across the world and the arc is the only place to take refuge from them. So their function would be to spread and make all living things into robot things... Who knows i might be way off the mark.

Cheers

Kol Korran
2017-01-15, 01:26 PM
I got that's the reason for the mecha-kythons, but why the emphasis on the top celestial and fiendish outsiders? What role do they play in the game, what is their purpose game-wise? (Not just plot wise). It seemed like Kaveman emphasized their role, I just didn't get what it is, and why them?

Are they mostly enemies ( In the form of Kython soul-napped adversaries?)
Are they added factions? (Who must cooperate with the PCs, but may have their own agendas?)
Are they a complication to the PCs usual MO? (Needing to protect and save as many as possible?)
Are they intended super minions?

I just wanted to understand their game role...

red_kangaroo
2017-01-23, 11:48 AM
Yay, great to see there will be more Necroranchers! :D

Anyway, I think the best combination would be scenario 1 and 4. What about something like this:


The world ended at the very creation of the Universe. When the Creator made all that is, the exhaustion was too much for her and her form shattered, separating her mind and body. From her immense mind, dead and void and bereft of thoughts, the Plane of Negative Energy came to be. But her dead body remained on the Material Plane, lost for eons, drifting among forgotten stars, only rarely coming close to an inhabited world - and when it did, all whispered about the power of Atropus, the World Born Dead.

The world ended again a billion years ago. Long before Men, Elves, even the Illithid Empire, the everlasting aboleths ruled, powers akin to gods. Even among the semi-divine aboleths, one was exceptional - this necromancer/psion/lich dediated his whole immortal life to the study of Negative Plane, the source of all undeath. Eventually, his psychic powers grew great enough he was able to encompass the whole Negative Plane with his mind at once - and he heard the voice of the dead Creator. Her mind was dead, but one last wish resonated through the void of Negative Plane - to be reunited again with her body, Atropus.

The necromancer aboleth knew he must grant her this wish - and once she will be whole again, with his powers he will raise her and merge with her, becoming an overdeity. The strain of this process will likely break this Universe apart - but that's not really a problem, he will be able to create a new one by then.

The aboleth necromancer was powerful, but not as powerful as all other aboleths combined. They learned of his plot when he called Atropus to their world. They overpowered him, destroyed him and bound his soul in myriads of spells and enchantments to imprison him for all eternity. Then they created a prison fitting in vastness and security to his might, guarded by automatons powerful enough to slay demigods, and send the prison right into the Positive Energy Plane, where the powers of the necromancer aboleth were at their lowest.

The world of aboleths still ended when Atropus came and the planet became a lifeless rock.

Anyway, the world slowly conceived life again, illithids came and the plot of Necroranchers happened. And during the next century, they caused so much influx of power into the Negative Plane that even the soul of the aboleth necromancer in his prison in Positive Plane felt it and begun to wake.

Now, that is not something the automatons are ready to let happen - and these are your khytons, once fully machines, but after a billion years on the Positive Plane evolved into half-living cyborg goodness. The khytons will try to stop Necroranchers, bringing immense spaceships that grew from the original prison on the Positive Plane (think borg unicomplex). And they will not be subtle - they will probably just nuke the whole planet (or burn it with positive-lasers and shatter it with positive-bombs) and the Necroranchers will have to escape on their Ark. However, eventually the Necroranchers will likely defeat the khyton swarm.

And then the aboleth necromancer will awaken, only a soul imprisoned on the Positive Plane but still strong enough to call for Atropus. Atropus will return to the world and will weaken the Positive Plane even more, until the aboleth necromancer can break free. Finally, the aboleth necromancer will try to take Atropus and unite her with her mind, the Negative Plane. If he succeeds, all undead will be snuffed out as their power source vanishes, the aboleth necromancer will become one with the Creator, likely breaking the Universe way past repair, and the new Creator will wipe the reality clean, starting a new Universe in the image of a deranged aboleth necromancer, so definitely a fine place to be.

SomeNerd
2017-01-23, 05:20 PM
I'm going to vote for... all of it. At once. I've read the logs; this group is too good at solving one problem at a time.

The events are kicked off by a combination of scenarios 2 and 4; instead of a traditional evil necromancer, they wind up with a being so utterly strange, alien, and anathemic to the entire universe, that it was sealed away. The records had since been distorted into the concept of an 'evil necromancer' because that's what the people of the time understood. What they in fact wind up dealing with is a facet of an 11-dimensional being. Killing it directly won't work, the only way to destroy it is to travel through the rift (purposefully forcing it open wider to do so) and destroy its anchors within its own dimension; attacking the facet is the equivalent of trying to avoid being stepped on by running a pumice stone across the bottom of the giant foot doing the stepping.

Then, scenarios 3 and 1 pop into existence; specifically, Inevitables. Forces of pure and unyielding order, created (in this scenario) to combat the pure and unyielding chaos of the Entity. They will remain active until the Entity is destroyed, and will force anything they encounter into a maximally ordered state in an attempt to delay it. They will follow the party into the breach, cutting off their retreat and gradually converting the alien plane into a plane of machinery and obsessive madness, while the plane itself strikes back at them.

So, in other words, a combination of all the scenarios resulting in the party caught in a war between absolute, oppressive order and complete, incomprehensible chaos, both of which are far more destructive than is good for business, all while trying to survive in an utterly alien landscape that is, due to the war, constantly changing hands and nature as each side seeks to overwhelm the other.

Oh, and on top of all that, it turns out that just leaving the Inevitables to their work isn't an option, since it turns out that as the other realm becomes more and more ordered, the material plane becomes more and more mad (excepting the necroranchers themselves, since they've been through the rift once as I remember, and thus are no longer anchored to the state of the material)