Styling all spells after Power Word: X

[pwykersotz]

I'll keep this succinct, what sorts of changes might be necessary to remove spell DC's from the game and to instead adopt the style of the Power Word spells, where the full effect happens when the target is at or below a certain HP threshold and until then the spell takes effect as if the creature had saved? The desired outcome is a cinematic style of magical influence, where a beaten foe can finally be controlled against their will or where a series of lightning bolts are near misses until the hero wears out and finally gets hit.

As an obvious corollary, does this sound like an interesting idea, or is it fundamentally flawed somehow? Would too many additional 5e elements need to be revamped to make it work?

[ChildofLuthic]

I think this should be fine for a few spells, but I don't know if I'd do it for the whole system.

It's going to be a pain to balance it out, and you end up with casters who honestly don't have a huge reason to pump their casting stat. Also, you end up making it harder to do area of effect spells.

I think Sleep works pretty similarly, so look at that as a low level implementation of what you're looking for. Definitely would be interesting to see.

[Theodoxus]

Intriguing idea - would need to meditate on it, but first blush, what do you do with buffs and other spells that don't target a creature?

[jas61292]

Intriguing idea - would need to meditate on it, but first blush, what do you do with buffs and other spells that don't target a creature?

I don't know how well this would work, but my first thought on this is to make buffs be the opposite, in that they require the target to be above a certain health mark, and instantly end if they fall below it, with more powerful spells requiring you to have more HP. Of course, this would be even harder to balance properly. But it feels like it would make sense.

[pwykersotz]

Good point about AoE's, I'll have to think about that. Usability is definitely important. As for casting stat, I'm sure another way can be found to make it viable. Perhaps it can adjust the HP value needed. 1 for 1 might be too low, maybe by 2hp per casting stat.

For buffs and spells which require no target, I figure they stay largely irrelevant to the process. Since HP value is simply substituted for the DC, spells without a DC would be ignored. At least with regard to my current thought process. There might be room for them to change too, but I'd like to solidify my foundation before I build out that far.

[D-naras]

How would damage spells work? Fireball deals 8d6 if below X hp or half if above?

Anyway, you could do it something like spell level multiplied by 5+ spell casting modifier. So a 3rd level spell affects targets below 3*9 hp. A 9th level affects targets below 9*10 hp and so on.

[pwykersotz]

How would damage spells work? Fireball deals 8d6 if below X hp or half if above?

Anyway, you could do it something like spell level multiplied by spell casting ability score. So a 3rd level spell affects targets below 3*18 hp. A 9th level affects targets below 9*20 hp and so on.

Maybe adjust the formula to 5 times the ability score for stronger spells.

In effect, yes, characters above X hp would take half damage.

Also, I was thinking that the HP amount would be much, much lower than 9*20. If that were the case, Imprisonment would be very, very easy to get off. Consider, for example, that a CR 17 Death Knight has 180hp. Maybe Spell Level times 1/2 Casting Stat or somesuch. But you definitely have the basic idea.

[D-naras]

Yeah I figured that out so I edited my post. 5+mod per level seems better. 9th Level spells work on 90 hp. The problem will be with spells like charm person and other out of combat spells. Do you have to beat people up before you dominate them or they are affected by zone of truth? What happens with save proficiencies? Advantage to saves? Disadvantage?

[Potato_Priest]

Perhaps the Amount of HP needed to fail a spell save could be Caster level * Caster Ability Modifier. It brings us up to power word kill standards, but is pretty unfortunately underwhelming at lower levels.

Also, Attack roll spells would me MUCH more valuable for bringing people down to lower health threshholds.

[Arcangel4774]

Maybe hybridize the original style with your changes and have a threshold for automatic success.

Also have you considered how this applies to the bounded accuracy ideal? Enemies who are weaker than you, are now even weaker without the hp that would be gained over the levels.

I think it's important to have abilities score relevant to prior saves affect the hp value. A halfwit barbarian with a wall of hp should be easier to mind control than the spell caster who is more mentally equipped to make the save yet is on the frail side.