[Pathfinder] How to play Arcane Trickster from level 1?

[genderlich]

I'm gearing up for Curse of the Crimson Throne (no spoilers please) and I'm trying to decide between straight Wizard and Wizard/Rogue/AT. But frankly I'm worried about being just terrible until level 6 or 7, not doing much more than Ray of Frost + piddly sneak attack damage sometimes. All I can think of to fix that right now is to focus on stealth to do sneak attack damage more often via sniping and to make sure to get lots of scrolls of the spells I need but can't reliably prepare. (The character was going to have lots of scrolls anyway.)

But, I mean... what do I do for 5 or 6 levels with my casting 3 levels behind a regular wizard? And for that matter, what order do I take these levels in? What sorts of spells should I prioritize, and when should I use them? I haven't even played a regular wizard in ages, so I'm worried I'm going to get lost and end up with a useless character.

EDIT: I noticed the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, which would let me only take 1 level of rogue. That'd net me a +1 base attack bonus at level 5, though (wizard 3/rogue 1/trickster 1). Worth it?

[Novawurmson]

Might I interest you in Accomplished Sneak Attacker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/accomplished-sneak-attacker) from the Dirty Tactics Toolbox? Means you can get into Arcane Trickster with one level of rogue+3 levels of wizard. You edited it while I was running around trying to find my copy of DTT lol.

[elonin]

Just play like a wizard rogue multi class. The normal advice is against playing a caster and loosing caster levels. I suspect there may be an early entry trick with rogue talents or some such, though it may not be well received at your table.

Are you planning to play more strongly as a wizard, rogue or balanced?

[Troacctid]

Have you considered the Eldritch Scoundrel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/eldritch-scoundrel-rogue) archetype?

[genderlich]

Have you considered the Eldritch Scoundrel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/eldritch-scoundrel-rogue) archetype?

I have, but since we're going up to a decently high level I want higher level spell slots than what that gets me, and there's a specific third-party wizard archetype I want to try out (the book it's in is upcoming).


Just play like a wizard rogue multi class. The normal advice is against playing a caster and loosing caster levels. I suspect there may be an early entry trick with rogue talents or some such, though it may not be well received at your table.

Are you planning to play more strongly as a wizard, rogue or balanced?

The hope was to mostly be a wizard with great skills, trapfinding, and maybe some neat ways to use sneak attack with spells.

[elonin]

Not to deter you, since there are spells that fit in quite well with stealth gishes. Just wanted to make you aware that pathfinder took some of the emphasis on needing a rogue with anyone being able to do fairly well with finding and disabling traps. Rogues do get some bonuses on this front, but when i'm playing a rogue i tend to find other means of disabling traps and opening doors. Especially if you are a full on wizard knock makes a good substitute for that skill. Sneak attack can be gotten in other ways (unless i'm accidently thinking of 3.5.

I've been wanting to play an arcane trickster for awhile but haven't been able to for some time.

[master4sword]

That'd net me a +1 base attack bonus at level 5, though (wizard 3/rogue 1/trickster 1).

If that's a concern, and you're mainly taking Rogue for the sneak attack, consider Brawler with the snakebite striker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/brawler/archetypes/paizo---brawler-archetypes/snakebite-striker) archetype - full BAB class with +1d6 sneak attack at 1st level, plus unarmed strike (for what that's worth), Stealth as a class skill, a level of good Fort and Ref, and d10 hit die. If campaign traits are allowed in your games, this trait (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/mummy-s-mask/trap-finder) covers trapfinding.

Though that does cost you 4 skill points vs Rogue, and the class skill list for Brawler IS quite a bit smaller.

[Molosse]

I'm gearing up for Curse of the Crimson Throne (no spoilers please) and I'm trying to decide between straight Wizard and Wizard/Rogue/AT. But frankly I'm worried about being just terrible until level 6 or 7, not doing much more than Ray of Frost + piddly sneak attack damage sometimes. All I can think of to fix that right now is to focus on stealth to do sneak attack damage more often via sniping and to make sure to get lots of scrolls of the spells I need but can't reliably prepare. (The character was going to have lots of scrolls anyway.)

But, I mean... what do I do for 5 or 6 levels with my casting 3 levels behind a regular wizard? And for that matter, what order do I take these levels in? What sorts of spells should I prioritize, and when should I use them? I haven't even played a regular wizard in ages, so I'm worried I'm going to get lost and end up with a useless character.

EDIT: I noticed the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, which would let me only take 1 level of rogue. That'd net me a +1 base attack bonus at level 5, though (wizard 3/rogue 1/trickster 1). Worth it?

You've got it in one. Another option, if you're willing to wait, would be Wizard (VMC Rogue) and grabbing Accomplished Sneak Attacker as a retrain option at level 7.

Beyond that see if your GM is comfortable with the fractional BaB rules listed in PF Unchained, will help buoy up your frankly appalling BaB.

[Topaz]

I am far from an expert optimizer, but I did play a Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster all the way up through a Pathfinder-ized War of the Burning Sky, so I can tell you what my experience was:

The Magical Knack Trait (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-knack) won't get you any more spells, but it does at least make up for what your Caster Level counts as by 2.

It goes without saying that aimed spells are your friend, especially when you can pull off a 30-foor ranged Sneak Attack. Don't discount your Cantrips at lower levels; my character's signature move was Sneak Attack Acid Splash for a while. But Shocking Grasp, Snowball, Scorching Ray, Force Punch and the like are bread and butter spells.

Most optimization guides say that Universalist is a bad option, but while I admit that school spells are nice to have, my character managed to surprise foes with Hand of the Apprentice based attacks a fair amount, especially in the early going.

I definitely endorse the lots of scrolls idea, but that's true for any Wizard. Having a Wand of Shocking Grasp and one of Snowball for those long adventuring days will be useful for a surprising number of levels, especially if you can have a Shocking Grasp Wand enchanted at CL 5.

We had a blasty Sorcerer in the party for the area damage and save-or-suck stuff, so my character concentrated on single-target attacks and the buff and utility side of things. It worked out quite well.

[Coretron03]

Well, you could try a early entry if there was some way to bypass skill caps (unsure if thats possible) a asimiar or something with a arcane spell-like with 1 wizard level and 1 rogue level with accomplished sneak attacker would be the earliest if there was a way to bypass the damn skill caps. 5th looks like the earliest level sadly, likely going Rogue 1/wizard 3 for very little casting lost.

[Ilorin Lorati]

I'm with Molosse on VMC if you're allowed to take it and are willing to wait - that way you're never behind any levels because you jump straight from Wizard into AT between 8 and 10 depending just on what you want to do. With that, there's an added bonus of not losing out on the BAB from swapping classes a thousand times, because 10 Wizard / 10 AT comes out to 10 BAB like expected.