Half Elf or Variant Human?

[2D8HP]

I can't decide if I shall have this STR 14, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 10 Fighter/Rogue PC (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1042206) be a half elf or variant human (Darkvision, extra skill, and +2 CHA, or the Alert feat)?
Which one (I thought about half-orc as well, but that would lose the 16 DEX)?

[Fishyninja]

Both are very good, not being able to be suprised at all is a very useful stat especially for the Rogue. Dont forget Fighters get a lot of ASI increases too so you could forgo an ASI of an extra feat.

I personally would go with the half elf, the +2 CHA bonus is great and like i said, with the increased ASI's of a fighter you could try to max stats quickly or subsitute one ASI for a feat.

[Willie the Duck]

I'm biased, but I'd say half-elf. Darkvision is so helpful to a rogue character (as are skills, although a single skill wouldn't make the difference.

[mgshamster]

If you can't decide, roll randomly! :)

[Citan]

I can't decide if I shall have this STR 14, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 10 Fighter/Rogue PC (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1042206) be a half elf or variant human (Darkvision, extra skill, and +2 CHA, or the Alert feat)?
Which one (I thought about half-orc as well, but that would lose the 16 DEX)?
Hi!

I'd go with Half-Elf: if you "main" Fighter you will have a chance to take Alert feat anyways in addition to maxing your stat. Whereas darkvision is hard to come by as a non-racial feature.
Bonus point if you were planning to take the Swashbuckler archetype. ;)

[Potato_Priest]

I'd go for variant Human. The Alert Feat is EXTREMELY useful, and works well with most builds.

[Socratov]

Ok, first off, both fighter and rogue get more ASI's so you can always pick up Alert along the way.

Second, darkvision is supremely useful. Dungeoneering, sneaking, all that works best when you can see without resorting to torches.

Third: the cha is not useful. it has no direct relation to the 3 stats you as a fighter need the most (STR/DEX, CON). Now if you are going rogue along the way and want to use it effectively, focus on dex (as you have already done) and become an elf: you get a bump to dex and darkvision with some other nice stuff along the way (like a high elf cantrip or woodelf camouflage)

[Spacehamster]

Half-elf, variant human is great first few levels, garbage in the end with sub-par stats and no darkvision.

[Arcangel4774]

You may consider variant half elves as well. You'd lose skill versatility but could gain drow magic, high elf cantrip, wood elf movement, or wood elf mask of the wild just to name a few.

[Spiritchaser]

It's campaign dependent, but a rogue without darkvision can often feel like half a rogue. Sure alert is brilliant, and take it If you can, or if you have expertise in perception and take observant that can help too... But...

You are a rogue. You CAUSE perception checks. If you are carrying a torch while causing a perception check, you will cause silent laughter amongst your hidden foes instead.

Now: if you are In a position to know that there might be a nice toy waiting for you at some point to help with that? Then more power to you, but that's asking a lot, and a fighter or rogue gets extra ASIs to take alert later.

Edit: I'm assuming you want CHA for swashbuckler? EDIT AGAIN: not sure why I was thinking swashbuckler. Sorry!

[Dalebert]

Edit: I'm assuming you want CHA for swashbuckler?

With only a 10 CHA, I was assuming not going swashbuckler. So if you're not going swashbuckler I don't get why you'd care about CHA.

[bid]

I can't decide if I shall have this STR 14, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 10 Fighter/Rogue PC (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1042206) be a half elf or variant human (Darkvision, extra skill, and +2 CHA, or the Alert feat)?
Which one (I thought about half-orc as well, but that would lose the 16 DEX)?
If you can rotate your stats, I'd go 10 16* 14* 8 12 16* as a half-elf swashbuckler. That'd give you a +3 initiative and infravision.

[Zene]

My personal rule of thumb is: Does the build need the extra feat to work? If not, go half-elf. On the occasions where you need darkvision, you *really* need it, and while there are workarounds, none are very convenient.

[Fishyninja]

I can't decide if I shall have this STR 14, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 10 Fighter/Rogue PC (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1042206) be a half elf or variant human (Darkvision, extra skill, and +2 CHA, or the Alert feat)?
Which one (I thought about half-orc as well, but that would lose the 16 DEX)?

If you still want Dark Vision and some extra benefits, Mountain Dwarves are handy. +1 to Con, Darkvision to 60ft and also an extra 1hp on level up.

[Theodoxus]

Another thread where Darkvision is overblown... Unless you're in pitch blackness, there's no need for Darkvision. Grab Skulker instead of Alert as your bonus feat and laugh at all the idiots trying to find you. So, sure, if you're doing an Underdark campaign or all you're doing is tomb diving where light is imperative - go non-human. But if you're doing anything overland and sneaking into houses/buildings/etc where even starlight provides enough to create dim light? Skulker is all you need...

[Zene]

Unless you're in pitch blackness

Exactly. When you're in pitch blackness, you need darkvision. Or you need to spend a round creating a light, and then being a beacon to all attackers if you're holding said light.

It may or may not happen often depending on the campaign and your DM, but when it does happen, it sucks.

[FabulousFizban]

Variant. Human. Period. .<-- period!

[Spacehamster]

curious why people are so obsessed by variant human? Yes a feat is amazing, but after level 4-8 it is not that good anymore with most other races offering +1 or +2 more in stats, darkvision and other cool perks, as an example lets say mtn dorf fighter vs variant human fighter at level 1: Human stats either 16/10/16/8/14/8 or 16/14/16/8/10/8 depending if you want better initiative(and maybe a rogue dip) or better WIS save(and any WIS dip) and lets say polearm master and a skill, the dorf stats 17/10/17/8/14/8 or 17/14/17/8/10/8 + darkvision + the dwarven cunning and such.
Here the human is at a clear advantage unless there is issues with dark places.

At 4 the human probably gets his STR to 18 while the Mtn Dorf either takes a feat or puts his STR and CON to 18, human probably better here too unless its dark out.

At 6 human prob STR 20 and dwarf if took feat gets at 4 18/18 in CON/STR or max STR or feat if he did not take a feat. Same here but dwarf is steadily catching up due to his better
racial abilities.

At 8 human prob takes a 2nd feat while the dwarf has a maxed stat and one feat and more HP.

All in all V human is an optimizers wet dream at 1st level, can also be nice rp wise to add flavor to your PC with that feat, but at later levels it gets catched up to and surpassed due to its weaker stats and lack of darkvision maybe forcing you into a warlock 2 dip for devils sight if your dm uses dark areas often. Personally I prefer a slower start with a race that in the end will end up stronger but that´s just me I suppose. :)

[Spiritchaser]

Exactly. When you're in pitch blackness, you need darkvision. Or you need to spend a round creating a light, and then being a beacon to all attackers if you're holding said light.

It may or may not happen often depending on the campaign and your DM, but when it does happen, it sucks.

I guess as a DM I have disproportionately inflicted caves, sea caves, basements, sewers, the insides of cisterns and unlit rooms on my players. In the past year I think there has been one play session that didn't involve these for at least some small part of the time, even though there hasn't really been even one "dungeon" crawl, with most time being wilderness.

I haven't had much of a chance to be a player this past year, although I do prefer it. In the three play sessions we had, two of them involved pitch blackness at some point.

Maybe its a cultural thing for us?

If you suspect the campaigns will be anything like these take darkvision if you can.

[Citan]

Variant. Human. Period. .<-- period!
I think it is really not the case on classes which get additional ASIs compared to other classes.
It means you can easily grab the Alert first thing on level 4 if you so wish, and still get your usual ASI 2 levels later.

Note to OP: if you didn't plan on taking the Swashbuckler archetype, then I'd rather suggest Wood Elf more than Half-Elf. Having a 13 in Wisdom means...
1) Either a better, even WIS when/if you take Resilient:Wisdom or Observant (great for any Rogue).
2) Or the possibility to dip into Monk or Ranger should you wish so (or even a Cleric/Druid)
3) Or the ability to pick Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster as another way to expand your capabilities.

And you also start with a 18 DEX, meaning better Initiative, AC, to hit and damage right from the start. No small thing in my opinion. ;)

[bid]

curious why people are so obsessed by variant human? Yes a feat is amazing, but after level 4-8 it is not that good anymore with most other races offering +1 or +2 more in stats, darkvision and other cool perks
With vuman you can have a feat and Cha18 at level 4. Or any 18 and a feat, or PAM + sentinel.

But yeah, you should only use vuman if what you want is impossible otherwise and you cannot wait for level 8.

[2D8HP]

I'd rather suggest Wood Elf more than Half-ElfI agree completely, but since the majority of my 5e PC's have been Wood Elves, for something different and for role-play reasons, I want to play a PC that's at least half-human.


And you also start with a 18 DEX, meaning better Initiative, AC, to hit and damage right from the start. No small thing in my opinion. ;)How?
I thought with point buy and standard array, the most you can start with is a 17?

[Citan]

I agree completely, but since the majority of my 5e PC's have been Wood Elves, for something different and for role-play reasons, I want to play a PC that's at least half-human.
How?
I thought with point buy and standard array, the most you can start with is a 17?

Well, I must have misunderstood, I thought you had such rolled stats preracial STR 14, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 10.

Otherwise you are indeed right, you can not "buy" higher than 15 so you cannot start with more than 17.

[2D8HP]

Well, I must have misunderstood, I thought you had such rolled stats preracial STR 14, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 10.

Otherwise you are indeed right, you can not "buy" higher than 15 so you cannot start with more than 17.Those stats were for a standard array post racial v-human.
Thanks!

[Deathtongue]

In the very long run, the +2 stat bonus, along with the other stuff half-elves get, is generally better than the feat. Note that I said generally; getting Resilient - Dex or Con rocks such that all of the extra stuff that half-elves get is only a little bit better than having proficiency for these two life-saving saving throws after the 1/3rd-way mark through the game.

Of course, since this is for a Fighter/Rogue you don't really need that Charisma in the first place. Variant Human is better unless you plan to multiclass out.

[Theodoxus]

I guess as a DM I have disproportionately inflicted caves, sea caves, basements, sewers, the insides of cisterns and unlit rooms on my players. In the past year I think there has been one play session that didn't involve these for at least some small part of the time, even though there hasn't really been even one "dungeon" crawl, with most time being wilderness.

I haven't had much of a chance to be a player this past year, although I do prefer it. In the three play sessions we had, two of them involved pitch blackness at some point.

Maybe its a cultural thing for us?

If you suspect the campaigns will be anything like these take darkvision if you can.

And of these times in pitch black, how detrimental would a light source have been?

I'm really curious. Playing OotA, my high elf cleric stumbled upon a Sun Blade. The sword is out 99.9% of the time. Granted, it imposes disad on sunlight sensitivity critters (like drow) - so I've used it as defense just as much as light... but needless to say, maybe the DM just sucks when it comes to light issues, but there hasn't been a single time when having the light source wasn't more beneficial than running around in perpetual dim light (which is all darkvision does in pitch blackness).

[Willie the Duck]

It depends upon whether the party is ever trying to hide and/or sneak by someone, and whether the DM interprets light sources as actually drawing more enemies to you, or simply revealing your position to those looking for you.

[Zene]

It depends upon whether the party is ever trying to hide and/or sneak by someone, and whether the DM interprets light sources as actually drawing more enemies to you, or simply revealing your position to those looking for you.

Also, depends on whether you're ever unexpectedly plunged into darkness ... did the enemy cast prestidigitation to snuff out the party's one torch? Did a strong wind blow out all the candles lining the sides of the room? In those cases, you then lose a turn casting light / re-lighting the torch. Seems like it'd be a rare situation, but weirdly enough it hasn't been (and I play AL, so it's not just one DM using this tactic).

Personally, I get around this on my Vhuman cleric by keeping a bracelet in my pocket with Continual Flame cast on it. It still takes an object interaction to get it out, and I'm still a lit-up target for as far out as enemies can see, but at least I still have my action and bonus action that round.

[Spiritchaser]

And of these times in pitch black, how detrimental would a light source have been?

I'm really curious. Playing OotA, my high elf cleric stumbled upon a Sun Blade. The sword is out 99.9% of the time. Granted, it imposes disad on sunlight sensitivity critters (like drow) - so I've used it as defense just as much as light... but needless to say, maybe the DM just sucks when it comes to light issues, but there hasn't been a single time when having the light source wasn't more beneficial than running around in perpetual dim light (which is all darkvision does in pitch blackness).

In their current campaign, being hidden gave the party the drop on their opponents over two thirds of the time in the first adventure. Navigating the island was no problem for anyone, but the pirates in the sea caves needed torches, the party didn't. The party was surprised once (by the captain's "pet" and achieved surprise almost predictably).

For the first adventure, this have them a sense of what was possible, and turned what would have been hard fights int easy ones. Only two death saves on that whole island, and this is with level 1s who are disproportionately likely to take a hard fall

Thing is... They realized the power of darkness and started biting off bigger fights. At that point, somewhat by choice, it became a matter of life and death.

Most foes In their dark places would view a light source as a danger, to be slunk up on (often successfully)

On one mission the party elected to join forces with a group of bandits, who did require torches. It was amazing to me that when I callibrated the caves for the dark loving party, it actually worked ok for the party plus six others.

Now, their foes had darkvision, and one heck of an alpha... But still...