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View Full Version : What do elves in leafed-forests do during the cold half of the year?



Eladrinblade
2016-12-30, 05:52 PM
When the trees lose their leaves, the ground is covered in crunchy dry leaves, and you veggies/fruits don't grow? Everything is bare and dry and grey or brown. Their villages are exposed, they have to switch colors on their cloaks and camo, it's waaaaaaaaaaay harder to sneak up on prey or enemies....

I can come up with stuff myself, but I'm curious why I've never seen explanations for this before.

LibraryOgre
2016-12-30, 05:56 PM
I would not be surprised if elves build with these things in mind. Winter cloaks are warmer and designed with the local climate in mind. Buildings are not just hidden by leaves, but by being part of the tree. Hunting is more difficult, so they store food.

thirdkingdom
2016-12-30, 05:57 PM
I think they go to Florida.

hamishspence
2016-12-30, 06:00 PM
Presumably they've cached enough food to see them through the winter.

As such, they'll need to defend that food from other hungry creatures - bears and the like.

That gives them something to do.

Even in leafy forests, they don't all have to live up trees. Perhaps they're like a combo of Mirkwood Elves and Lorien Elves from Tolkien - in winter they live like Mirkwood elves, in caves - in summer, they put up their treehouses and live like Lorien elves.

IntelectPaladin
2016-12-30, 06:05 PM
That's a good question, Eladrin. I'll try to put forward my best guess.
What I picture physically is something like a snow-coated village,
orange lights pouring from the various residences and elegant snow lanterns.
It's hard to make an image into words. I gave up on explaining what I had in my head.
Elves can handle winter climate, I think.
At least as well as elven adventurers can. They could manage a few things.
Hunting would be easy if you're going after hibernating prey, for example.
Another example would be the art that comes from a winter landscape.
Inspiration isn't confined to the summer, is it?
There could be celebrations, or at least festivals, held within any larger trees should there be any nearby.
And lastly, I could easily see an elven solstice taking place, or something similar.
Oh hríw nimloth, oh hríw nimloth...
I hope I was able to answer anything, eldarin. I'm sure others have much better answers than I do.
As usual.
Thank you for reading this, and I hope you have a better day!
P.S. I still leave hidden messages in my posts.

Mastikator
2016-12-30, 08:06 PM
They do what squirrels do, store nuts for the winter. Are we to believe elves don't plan for the future? ELVES?

VoxRationis
2016-12-30, 09:00 PM
They break out the comma-shaped earmuffs. (Funny though that might be, earmuffs are a must-have for elves in cold climates, as their ear shapes mean they'll lose heat through their ears even faster than humans will.) They could also retire to barrow-dwellings insulated from the cold by virtue of thick layers of sod. It can be assumed that they have been preparing for the winter, storing acorns and game meat. (Smoked jerky, perhaps, or perhaps some sort of magical preservation.)

KillingAScarab
2016-12-30, 09:11 PM
Given that one of the themes of elves is that they are less affected by the passage of time, I think they either pick spots to settle where they don't need to worry about harsh winters or they can use magic to prevent them. For Middle-Earth elves, Rivendell and Lothlorien were protected at least in part by magic rings (Nenya (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/g/galadriel.html) made time flow slower), and Lothlorien's Mallorn trees (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/mallorns.html) died after the elves left.

Yukitsu
2016-12-30, 09:12 PM
In a lot of literature the elves live in magical enchanted perma pleasant forests that just create loads of fruits and nuts for them to eat and magical stag thingies to hunt. This is pretty possible in some game worlds as well depending on how well magic works and the tone the setting wants to set.

In D&D, the elves were granted blessed forests by their God that remain in perpetual sort of late summer. In Warhammer, the Wood elves reside in a forest where the trees are so grumpy winter just says "forget it, it's not worth it." and in Tolkien the elves seem to bring Alfheim with them everywhere they go, which is the mystical realm of the elves that's a separate plane in Nordic mythology.

Pronounceable
2016-12-30, 09:39 PM
When the trees lose their leaves, the ground is covered in crunchy dry leaves, and you veggies/fruits don't grow? Everything is bare and dry and grey or brown. Their villages are exposed, they have to switch colors on their cloaks and camo, it's waaaaaaaaaaay harder to sneak up on prey or enemies
All that stuff happens to losers like us, not the elves, their forests don't have winters. Cos the elves are better than us.

Feddlefew
2016-12-30, 10:59 PM
My go to explanation has been that elves are a tropical species that makes heavy use of rapid magical terraforming, and that's why the other races don't particularly get along with them.

Newtonsolo313
2016-12-31, 12:02 AM
Why do you think elves are so skinny :p (sorry phone does not have blue text)

obryn
2016-12-31, 12:30 AM
They dig into their burrows and hibernate for the winter.

Kelb_Panthera
2016-12-31, 12:35 AM
The same as any intelligent humanoid race: they wear warmer clothing, dig into their stockpiles, and spend a lot more time indoors. The differences in their taste in style and architecture from humans, dwarves, and what-have-you don't really impact these things much.

So the fireplace is a crystal bazier in the tree-hut instead of a stone or metal affair on an earthen floor, big deal.

Kami2awa
2016-12-31, 02:34 AM
How about having them migrate? If would fit with Tolkien's idea of them having a perpetual longing for the sea and the West.

Eladrinblade
2016-12-31, 03:06 AM
and in Tolkien the elves seem to bring Alfheim with them everywhere they go, which is the mystical realm of the elves that's a separate plane in Nordic mythology.

Ooh, I'm liking that.


In D&D, the elves were granted blessed forests by their God that remain in perpetual sort of late summer.

Source? Or did you make that up?


The same as any intelligent humanoid race

Well, in D&D 3.x, it's heavily implied that elven villages are hidden, which means they'd be way easier to find without leaves on the trees, unless:


Buildings are not just hidden by leaves, but by being part of the tree.

This means their trees must be huge in girth, which means they'd stand out against regular trees. Or the trunks are normal but the branches form a house or something, which is just as easy to see, assuming you ever look slightly up.

Is there something stated or implied in the fluff that I might be missing?

sktarq
2016-12-31, 03:26 AM
well a fair number of trees in broadleaf forests are evergreen - elves may have a preference for them

hidden villages could be at ground level just fine. Built into Bushes (ever had a fort inside a hedgerow as a kid?), camofagued between rocks etc. They don't have to up in the treetops.

3.X mentions elven towns and cities. . . Greyhawk and Eberron for example


but even if we take that all as said. How do elves deal with the winter

winter berries are a thing
more hunting, less gathering
food stores - previously collected wild grains, gourds, dried fruits, nuts, and roots
various root vegetables may still be available under the snow if you know where to look because the elves encouraged them to grow there.
knowing which lichen soups are worth eating
elves being both magical and acutely aware of nature may well be able to create/know where to find warmer places that can still act as winter gardens

Kelb_Panthera
2016-12-31, 03:35 AM
Well, in D&D 3.x, it's heavily implied that elven villages are hidden, which means they'd be way easier to find without leaves on the trees, unless:

If we're going with 3.5 specifically, RotW describes elven villiages in such a way as to suggest that the villiage as a whole is hidden within the woods but the individual homes are not. If you know where the villiage is then it's plain enough to see when you approach and enter.

Besides, the effect of the lack of foliage on visibility in the woods depends largely on several factors; tree density, tree type, how deep in the woods you get (there's a lot less underbrush deep in the woods than near the edges) and so on. Elves would know this better than a country-boy like me and could certainly pick a location that would be hidden even without the leaves.

RazorChain
2016-12-31, 03:38 AM
They dig into their burrows and hibernate for the winter.

Are we talking Bunnies and Burrows here? Different game.

Clistenes
2016-12-31, 06:57 AM
They should have stored enough nuts and roots for the winter, and they could still hunt. It would be harder, but hey, elves are always bragging about how awesome they are at archery and stealth, aren't they? Time to put it to test.

Frozen_Feet
2016-12-31, 07:20 AM
In my setting, they hibernate. Among the many biological traits which allow elves to be biologically immortal and immune to most diseases and poisons, their bodily fluids have anti-freeze chemicals and their cell structure in some ways resembles trees, so an elf could, if it wanted to, dig itself deep into the snow and just let itself be frozen. When temperature rises high enough that the elf's body temperature gets high enough for it to thaw, it just crawls up from the snow and resumes normal life.

Forest animals leave elf popsicles alone, because the same chemicals allowing elfs to do this are deadly poisonous to them. (Elven fat also stores plant poisons from berries an elf eats.) Humans literally avoid elves like the plague, because elfs can be carriers of all those nasty diseases they themselves are immune to. The word for "elven forest" eventually came to be synonymous with "forest untouched by humans", because of the taboo against interacting with elfs.

dps
2016-12-31, 01:17 PM
All that stuff happens to losers like us, not the elves, their forests don't have winters. Cos the elves are better than us.

Even leaving magic and fantasy out of it, not all forests have winters, and some forests that do have winters are evergreen forests.

Yukitsu
2016-12-31, 01:25 PM
Source? Or did you make that up?


Not entirely sure but I think it was a throwaway line as to why Gruumsh hates elves (and then it went on to tack on why he hates every other race, he got the shaft with nothing but wasteland). I'm also not entirely sure about the reason, the elves in the lottery of who gets what ended up with the forests so it could just be from that, it could also have been Correlon or it could have been powerful magic. After all, elves are generally in the lore one of the most powerful magical communities out there.

braveheart
2016-12-31, 01:55 PM
Obviously they take up employment at the North Pole and make gifts for children in exchange for food and warm lodgings

Eladrinblade
2016-12-31, 03:43 PM
If we're going with 3.5 specifically, RotW describes elven villiages in such a way as to suggest that the villiage as a whole is hidden within the woods but the individual homes are not.

I don't remember where I read it, but somewhere in the books it mentions how a human hunter might walk right through an elven village and never notice. I agree with the rest of your post.

Solaris
2016-12-31, 04:16 PM
In Warhammer, the Wood elves reside in a forest where the trees are so grumpy winter just says "forget it, it's not worth it."

Not according to the 8th Ed book for them. Don't recall the 6th off the top of my head, but in 8th winter was very much a thing for Athel Loren. It's when they're most vulnerable, on account of the forest spirits being asleep and the elves have to defend the wood by themselves.

Darth Ultron
2016-12-31, 04:27 PM
Is there something stated or implied in the fluff that I might be missing?

Camouflage can do wonders. Like covering much of the towns exposed bits with bark that matches the trees. Thick branches, woven together work too.

And evergreen trees are a must to hide 'big' things.

And elves do live in the big trees.

Packed snow can hide things just like leaves can.

Lord Raziere
2016-12-31, 04:28 PM
They become Unseelie and switch to homes and weapons made out of magical ice, having no more need for summer heat. They then slaughter animals just for their luxurious furs for their own vanity, threaten to kill anyone who comes into the forest and only lets them live if they promise to do something for them and you NEVER break a promise with an elf, really bad juju there, but fortunately they always need to tell the truth if you ask them a question three times, but unfortunately they still randomly kidnap infants to replace them with changelings so you have to have your cold iron on hand just in case.

(What, I'm not talking about DnD elves, they're boring. Fae is where its at.)

Yukitsu
2016-12-31, 06:11 PM
Not according to the 8th Ed book for them. Don't recall the 6th off the top of my head, but in 8th winter was very much a thing for Athel Loren. It's when they're most vulnerable, on account of the forest spirits being asleep and the elves have to defend the wood by themselves.

That's technically been around for all the editions. I do remember a short story though where a group of waywatchers are trying to defend the forest from some incursion in winter and oh woe is us it's harder because it's cold but about halfway through the entire forest just comes to life and beats up the invaders anyway so it feels like a copout when they say that winter causes the trees to sleep. Time is also commented on as not accounting for much there where a knight could go in, experience 1000 years of spring and then come out and turn into a skeleton at the end of it.

Slipperychicken
2016-12-31, 07:37 PM
When the trees lose their leaves, the ground is covered in crunchy dry leaves, and you veggies/fruits don't grow? Everything is bare and dry and grey or brown. Their villages are exposed, they have to switch colors on their cloaks and camo, it's waaaaaaaaaaay harder to sneak up on prey or enemies....

Same thing humans do. Sit inside, burn wood for warmth, eat stored-up foodstuffs, and come out in heavy furs to perforate food-animals and people who have evil intentions.

Sneaking up should be fine. Elves are supposed to be really good at sneaking around, and they've seen more winters than anyone. Depending on which elves you go with, they might not even disturb the snow when they walk, or they might be able to move along branches and such.

digiman619
2016-12-31, 07:41 PM
Obviously they take up employment at the North Pole and make gifts for children in exchange for food and warm lodgings

Objection! Those are clearly gnomes. Totally different.

Âmesang
2016-12-31, 08:15 PM
Cast Maven's worldweave enough times to turn their temperate lands into a tropical paradise. :smallcool:

Hawkstar
2016-12-31, 08:16 PM
Objection! Those are clearly gnomes. Totally different.Excuse me - where in this song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxHRA3k5-_U) do they refer to themselves as Gnomes?

But seriously - They build their homes in the treetops in a manner that they are still hidden even when the weather gets cold, and start dressing in form-fitting furs (And their hair and skin generally turns pale as well). And, given how light and long-lasting elf-bread is, they don't really need to "Stock up".

cobaltstarfire
2017-01-01, 09:29 AM
well a fair number of trees in broadleaf forests are evergreen - elves may have a preference for them

hidden villages could be at ground level just fine. Built into Bushes (ever had a fort inside a hedgerow as a kid?), camofagued between rocks etc. They don't have to up in the treetops.

3.X mentions elven towns and cities. . . Greyhawk and Eberron for example


but even if we take that all as said. How do elves deal with the winter

winter berries are a thing
more hunting, less gathering
food stores - previously collected wild grains, gourds, dried fruits, nuts, and roots
various root vegetables may still be available under the snow if you know where to look because the elves encouraged them to grow there.
knowing which lichen soups are worth eating
elves being both magical and acutely aware of nature may well be able to create/know where to find warmer places that can still act as winter gardens

Yeah this, even tree's whose leaves go brown in the winter don't necessarily drop their leaves during that time. I've observed Oak that don't really lose their leaves until Spring when they're starting to grow new ones for example. They are never noticeably bare at any time of the year, the coloration just changes.

perpterds
2017-01-01, 10:04 AM
I think they go to Florida.

definitely florida. :smallbiggrin:

nyjastul69
2017-01-01, 12:02 PM
My disdain for elves is such that I hope they all die during the winter. The whole lot of 'em.

Nightcanon
2017-01-02, 07:20 AM
I remember a late 80s Dragon had a feature on castles and gave 3 examples, one of which was an 'Elf Hill' which was basically a round tower with a central light-well, disguised as a small hill by powerful illusions. An elf village could be disguised by illusion and camoflage to appear to be nothing worth stepping off the path for.

Beleriphon
2017-01-02, 09:47 AM
This means their trees must be huge in girth, which means they'd stand out against regular trees. Or the trunks are normal but the branches form a house or something, which is just as easy to see, assuming you ever look slightly up.

Is there something stated or implied in the fluff that I might be missing?

Have you ever seen a giant sequoia? There are some of them that are pushing 2000 years old, and are bigger around than my actual house and get to be nearly 300 feet tall. We're talking like ewok village sized trees. A stand of a dozen them that are 2000 years old could hold a rather substantial village. In perspective General Sherman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Sherman_(tree)) is 36.5 ft diameter at the base, and 180 ft up it has a diameter of 14.0 ft. That is more than enough to put a really, really big tree house on it, or more importantly several really, really big tree houses scattered along its height. The best thing about giant sequoias? The fact that some of their branches are bigger around then what would be considered a very large tree.

Professor Chimp
2017-01-02, 10:18 AM
Have you ever seen a giant sequoia? There are some of them that are pushing 2000 years old, and are bigger around than my actual house and get to be nearly 300 feet tall. We're talking like ewok village sized trees. A stand of a dozen them that are 2000 years old could hold a rather substantial village. In perspective General Sherman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Sherman_(tree)) is 36.5 ft diameter at the base, and 180 ft up it has a diameter of 14.0 ft. That is more than enough to put a really, really big tree house on it, or more importantly several really, really big tree houses scattered along its height. The best thing about giant sequoias? The fact that some of their branches are bigger around then what would be considered a very large tree.Giant sequoai aren't even the biggest trees in terms of girth. The Baobad and Montezume cypress can both become thicker. There's one baobab in South Africa large enough that it has (had?) a bar and wine cellar inside its hollow trunk. They don't grow as tall as sequoias though, but I suppose that could also be seen as an advantage, since equipment and materials wouldn't need to be lifted so high.

Also, it's elves, the people that are almost invariably magic users. Who's to say they don't have magic to make trees grow in the shape and size they desire? Or to make them evergreen?

Beleriphon
2017-01-02, 10:58 AM
Giant sequoai aren't even the biggest trees in terms of girth. The Baobad and Montezume cypress can both become thicker. There's one baobab in South Africa large enough that it has (had?) a bar and wine cellar inside its hollow trunk. They don't grow as tall as sequoias though, but I suppose that could also be seen as an advantage, since equipment and materials wouldn't need to be lifted so high.

Also, it's elves, the people that are almost invariably magic users. Who's to say they don't have magic to make trees grow in the shape and size they desire? Or to make them evergreen?

That's very true, baobads are truly gigantic in girth, and I saw that bar on a TV show recently. The thing with sequoias, at least for me, is the crazy combination of both girth and height since a baobad is actually a multi-trunk tree that eventually fuses together which why they have a tendency to be hollow. Plus sequoias are coniferous, meaning they're evergreen anyways.

digiman619
2017-01-02, 04:59 PM
Excuse me - where in this song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxHRA3k5-_U) do they refer to themselves as Gnomes?

More Hollywood whitewashing; gnome actors in the 60's couldn't even get parts playing gnomes, and ever since that English professor wrote those books, elves have flooded the public consciousness and edged out the truth.