You just gained a level in real life! What class would you take?

[Troacctid]

You can use 3.5 or PF, or give different answers for both. Since you are an ordinary person, not a protagonist, assume your ability scores use your choice of the nonelite array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8) or the standard array (11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10), although you may rearrange them if you so choose, you can get a +2 to one of them for being human (either as a standard human ability in PF or by giving up your bonus feat and skill points with that one variant human in 3.5), and you are subject to normal aging bonuses and penalties. Any abilities you gain are on top of the abilities you already have, so you don't need to worry about simulating your existing skills.

You are now a 1st level character, unless you posted in the last thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476465-Every-year-starting-now-you-gain-a-level-IRL-What-is-your-build), in which case you still have the first level you gained back then (which is locked in), and you are now a 2nd level character! (You may retrain using the standard retraining rules.)

Amphetryon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20352107&postcount=58)
AnonymousPepper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20364093&postcount=142)
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[AnachroNinja]

Psion(Telepath) without a doubt.

[Yukitsu]

Commoner. I have extremely low aspirations.

Or possibly artificer so I can maybe build something that can do all the hard work for me.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Assuming I start at first level and can gain XP and everything that goes with it, abrupt jaunt conjuror wizard, with Precocious Apprentice (ray of stupidity). And I'd take Sanctum Spell, as well. Then I'd be crafting Sanctum Spell'd scrolls of ray of stupidity (as 1st level spells), enough to fire off a half-dozen or so. Then I'd go to Africa, hire a driver, and start sniping elephants with RoS. At CR 7 each (more if I get a few herds), I should be able to gain enough XP to planar bind a genie within a few hours. From there, it's not terribly difficult to go epic within a couple of rounds. Then I'd retrain everything to a monstrosity of a gestalt build (which isn't hard to pull off at that level, even in non-gestalt).

So, yeah.


Commoner. I have extremely low aspirations.You want to be an uneducated, starving serf? If you finished Middle School, you already have more of an education than a commoner does.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Cleric. Time to become a miracle (literally) healer.

EDIT - Better idea.

[King539]

Pun-Pun. :smalltongue:

[Troacctid]

Assuming I start at first level and can gain XP and everything that goes with it, abrupt jaunt conjuror wizard, with Precocious Apprentice (ray of stupidity). And I'd take Sanctum Spell, as well. Then I'd be crafting Sanctum Spell'd scrolls of ray of stupidity (as 1st level spells), enough to fire off a half-dozen or so. Then I'd go to Africa, hire a driver, and start sniping elephants. At CR 7 each (more if I get a few herds), I should be able to gain enough XP to planar bind a genie within a few hours. From there, it's not terribly difficult to go epic within a couple of rounds. Then I'd retrain everything to a monstrosity of a gestalt build (which isn't hard to pull off at that level, even in non-gestalt).

So, yeah.
Last year I believe you already took your first level as an Ardent.

[digiman619]

Still sticking with Monk of the Four Winds; I can wait 18 more years to be immortal. Just gotta lay low until then.

EDIT: If 3PP archetypes are on the table, I'll also be a Beastsoul Monk (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/beastsoul-monk). Comboing it with Drunken Master might prove interesting, but I don't drink anywhere near enough to justify it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Last year I believe you already took your first level as an Ardent.If I'm starting at 1st, then it's wizard.

[Tohsaka Rin]

If I'm starting at 1st, then it's wizard.

You didn't read the full OP, did you?

[Yukitsu]

You want to be an uneducated, starving serf? If you finished Middle School, you already have more of an education than a commoner does.

They asked what I want to be, not what I am.

[Jack_Simth]

You're 27 days early.

I'd really just continue with the Oracle plan, honestly. It's a reasonably solid class, flexible without being overly equipment-dependent, and the Spirit Guide archetype means easy access to Wizard spells... next year.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You didn't read the full OP, did you?I hadn't realized I was in the list. But it's really easy to gain a huge number of levels very, very fast. Who has time to wait for 1 level per year, if you can have all the ones you want before the month is halfway through?


They asked what I want to be, not what I am.And I'm saying that you're almost certainly more than that now. It's like offering to get a lobotomy after you've earned your high school diploma.

Then again, a certain flaw involving poultry could easily give you a huge leg-up in a large number of areas, from using Destructive Retribution Fell Animate greater consumptive field to create chicken bombs while buffing yourself, to solving world hunger at level 1.

[Troacctid]

I hadn't realized I was in the list. But it's really easy to gain a huge number of levels very, very fast. Who has time to wait for 1 level per year, if you can have all the ones you want before the month is halfway through?
Is it? I guess you can try it and find out. It's a good way to test out how xp works in real life. Next year, we'll see how you fared. :smallwink:

Too late for Precocious Apprentice now, though, so you'll need some other strategy!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is it? I guess you can try it and find out. It's a good way to test out how xp works in real life. Next year, we'll see how you fared. :smallwink:

Too late for Precocious Apprentice now, though, so you'll need some other strategy!Well, I did mention about gaining XP in that post you linked to in the first post up there, and that I'd start as a wizard if gaining XP was an option (which should be easily figured out with some scientific methoding). But if I'm stuck with that first level of ardent, might as well do some retraining to turn it into a wizard, and to change my feats around as mentioned in that linked post. If that's not an option, but I've already taken my ardent level, but my experiments have shown that gaining XP is still on the table...

Take wizard as my second level (eschewing my original proposed build), gain some taint for a bonus feat (taking Versatile Spellcaster as my feat), write ray of stupidity into my spell book, and use it to start blasting elephants via scrolls and stuff. Then retrain later via a thought bottle or greater restoration and negative levels, which can be done whether or not actual retraining is a thing.

If XP isn't a thing, and we're stuck with 1 level per year, just lay low and optimize the bejeezus out of myself in the meantime, using the things I learn (magic, skills, feats, WBL, and so on) to earn a huge amount of cash, which can be used for both personal comfort and assistance in optimization.

Of course, "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu" is always available.

[Pleh]

Cleric. I want city and celerity/travel domain. Still get spontaneous cure spells, I know all my spell list, and I can choose my spells every day.

[Tiri]

Too late for Precocious Apprentice now, though, so you'll need some other strategy!
He can always take it next year.

[Coidzor]

Being a wizard with access to the Pathfinder spell list would be very handy for day to day life. Crafter's Fortune would be great for handyman projects and Christmas gifts.

People love loose stone walls in my neck of the woods, so Expeditious Construction would be pretty profitable to know, and the hippies who love building with natural materials would eat the packed earth version up for dwellings, or if I went off the grid. Expeditious Excavation would mean I could dig in the yard without worrying about breaking pipes, and could always dig or expand a cellar.

If I make it another two levels, Tears to Wine would be a great thing for parties, and, depending upon local laws, a nice side business, especially if distilling is kosher, then you have free base material for liqueur.

IIRC, there's a few low level spells for rapid teaching, so I could learn rapidly if I had someone to teach me, and possibly could teach others how to wizard.

I think there's also some decent divinations that would help out too.

Also, having a Raven that could talk would be sweet.

If the road salt trick from Harry Potter and the Natural 20 worked, I'd go into magic item crafting. I'd certainly get involved in spell research if I was able to use road salt to get around the gp requirements. Instantaneous and Permanent duration Transmutations and Conjuration(Creation) spells would be very nifty, even if they're slight tweaks of existing spells.

Being a Cleric for Abstemiousness and Enhance Water wouldn't be too shabby either, or living off of Goodberry as a Druid with a nice smart pet.

Not sure what the best way to gain XP would be, though.

[D&DPrinceTandem]

Well of assuming I am human (right?) im going to take my first lvl as a...... Monk, martial monk to specific, my feats will be as following
Flaw (shaky) Dodge
human: mobility
1: educated
Monk: Spring attack

now i will find my nearest wizard and ask politely for them to cast demension door for me. then i wait until i can go into the dream realm again and now i quailify for Jaunter next year. Later

[Red Fel]

I'm frankly surprised I didn't participate in this last time. Oh, well, worth a lark.


You can use 3.5 or PF, or give different answers for both.

I think 3.5 is fine, unless I intend to play a martial. And as much as I love them, when someone offers you a chateaubriand, you don't ask for a burger.


Since you are an ordinary person,

... I'll give you a five minute head start.


not a protagonist, assume your ability scores use the nonelite array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8), although you may rearrange them if you so choose, you can get a +2 to one of them for being human (either as a standard human ability in PF or by giving up your bonus feat and skill points with that one variant human in 3.5), and you are subject to normal aging bonuses and penalties.

Mmm, yeah, gonna go with no. Elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). You're right, I'm not a protagonist; I'm a recurring villain, and the DM made sure to stat me accordingly.


Any abilities you gain are on top of the abilities you already have, so you don't need to worry about simulating your existing skills.

How about the fact that I have apparently 26 Int (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21475634&postcount=267)?

Honestly, I'd probably go with one of the two obvious and easy choices, Psion (Telepath) or Warlock. Psion (Telepath) is an obvious choice because think of the powah!, and psionic powers can have their manifestations suppressed if you make a Concentration check. On the other hand, if I had powers in real life, sure, I could quietly and subversively manipulate events behind the scenes, but I already do that. Warlock gives me something I can't already do - fly, be invisible, and fire lasers, all hella day.

Yeah, I'd probably end up with Warlock. The problem with Psion is that if you're discovered, surrounded, etc., there's not much you can do to defend yourself. Your powers are limited, and not ideal for combat. But Warlock? Flying, invisible, with lasers. Ya done, son.

And as I've said, I already took my first-level feat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21469795&postcount=229). It was homebrew. It was awesome.

[Coidzor]

I think 3.5 is fine, unless I intend to play a martial. And as much as I love them, when someone offers you a chateaubriand, you don't ask for a burger.

...Leave it to Red Fel to expand my food vocabulary in a thread about class levels IRL. :smallbiggrin:

[Red Fel]

...Leave it to Red Fel to expand my food vocabulary in a thread about class levels IRL. :smallbiggrin:

I do have some experience (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?312687-An-Allegory) in that regard. Which reminds me, I really need to join another campaign, I've been sitting on this Garlic Chicken build focusing on Marinades. What can I say, I have an affinity for Poultry classes.

Seriously, though, chateaubriand medallions, served medium rare with a nice potato with a bit of cinnamon 'pon it, and some buttered toast to the side, exquisite. I know a place. Simply fantastic.

[D&DPrinceTandem]

... I'll give you a five minute head start.


don't worry i only need 5 seconds

*background* "tactical nuke incoming!!!"

[J-H]

Beguiler. I get access to a decent spell list, and can cast any spell on the list. I'm in sales and don't intend to fight anything, ever, unless I have to.
Runner up is Psion (telepath) for obvious reasons. Beguiler wins for versatility at low levels (more abilities/powers known), although Psion is more subtle.

[Yukitsu]

I do have some experience (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?312687-An-Allegory) in that regard. Which reminds me, I really need to join another campaign, I've been sitting on this Garlic Chicken build focusing on Marinades. What can I say, I have an affinity for Poultry classes.

Seriously, though, chateaubriand medallions, served medium rare with a nice potato with a bit of cinnamon 'pon it, and some buttered toast to the side, exquisite. I know a place. Simply fantastic.

I'm sort of the barbaric opinion that with that particular cut of meat, just eating it raw with an egg is the better option but what would I know? I want to be a commoner when I grow up.

[Tohsaka Rin]

don't worry i only need 5 seconds

*background* "tactical nuke incoming!!!"

Thanks for giving me a better idea.

Summoner (Pathfinder). With Limbs (arms) and Skilled (Profession: Construction) I can build houses while I'm fooling around on the internet.

Heck, I can even have a weekend job working for a moving company, if the customers let me use their wifi.

Any if anyone annoys me, they'd better PREPARE FOR TITANFALL.

[torrasque666]

Artificer. I'm a failed engineering student, so I'd like to learn how to make magical items instead. Make a killing selling them.

[Troacctid]

Artificer. I'm a failed engineering student, so I'd like to learn how to make magical items instead. Make a killing selling them.
Multiclassing out of Dragonfire Adept, then?

[Remuko]

I think I'll go with Pathfinder's Summoner but its really a hard choice. Sorcerer and Monk are tempting as well.

[Bad Wolf]

Alright, let's see what I did....

Hmm. I'll continue with Sorcerer, but I'm probably going to spring for Malconvoker instead. More useful than vestiges.


Current level: Sorcerer 2

Future Plan: Sorcerer 6/Malconvoker 9/??? 5.

Maybe go with the acf to get the Summoning dominant, and then head into Thaumaturgist, but that might not be optimal...I'll come up with something.

[Tohsaka Rin]

I think I'll go with Pathfinder's Summoner but its really a hard choice. Sorcerer and Monk are tempting as well.

Why not build the Eidolon into a monk to uh, monk for you?

[torrasque666]

Multiclassing out of Dragonfire Adept, then?

I totally forgot to check for myself. In that case, nope. Keep going with Dragonfire Adept.

[Celestia]

Commoner. Take Chicken Infested. Make infinite monies. Cold, hard cash is the real power in this world. *nods*

[Ruethgar]

Would stick with the old plan probably. Changing it up a little, maybe I've just gotten a bit more power hungry.

Human Paragon 1/Sorcerer 1/Chameleon 7/Paragon 2/Ur Priest 1/Mystic Theurge 8

Str 8
Dex 11
Con 10
Int 12
Wis 13
Cha 9

Flaw: Murky Eyed: Able Learner
Flaw: Noncombatant: Magical Affinity(Create Element: War Sanctum Twin Ocular Chain Split Extension Extend Persist with Two Grass Growth Side Effects)
First: Human Heritage
Leviathan: Dragonwrought
Third: Wild Cohort
Floating: Mostly Item Creation
Leviathan: Draconic Reserviour
Sixth: Leadership
Ninth: Landlord
Leviathan: Versetile Spellcaster
Paragon: Alternate Form
Twelfth+: Demigod Non-Epic Epic Destiny
Leviathan: Extra Slot
Retrain: Three E's Eberron Crafter, Extra Slot

I would, at first level, transform into a White Dragonspawn Abomination Kobold via Lucid Dream shenanigans and retrain for Dragonwrought(since it occurs before you level up I'm still level one and can take it). "Feel free to add any mutations desired or change the specifics of the following in minor ways to simulate the unique nature of abominations." So, yeah, 3 doubles, 3 Magic Talent, +4 Physical Stats. That get's me to 9/9/5 casting which is pretty awesome.

If I were the only one, I would just colonize and teraform the moon, spending a fair bit of time enjoying being able to create unhindered and perhaps orchestrate a Watchmen style peace(read the novel, they messed up the movie's end). However, because of my practical omnipotence and omniscience, I would probably go into Aspect of the Wolf as one of my family member's pets for most of the time so I would avoid the soul crushing loneliness of being a god among men and could just be happy as a dog. Occasionally I would probably try and fix things in the world, or at least bolster people who look like they would help, but I would not do the elaborate, invasive maneuvering that some people have suggested in other threads(chain curses of infertility, marks of justice, and mind rape).

As far as what I would do with my current set up as a level 2, I would hide my abilities as much as able. I would use Lucid Dreaming to be able to meditate and explore my spirituality more, having 5x the normal waking day would be amazing even without the cheesy uses. I would make a lovely little den for myself connected to the backyard and Create Device versions of Persist Extend Alter Self traps via Lucid Dreaming to keep my human form. I would show my boyfriend as the only other person to know about me and, well, we would have fun with that and I won't say anymore. I would continue to help him during the day, but do so magically as much as possible. When he's overseas I would make an effort to make money with my magic and terraform our property, making art of the stone and flora.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm putting full ranks into Knowledge (D&D), Knowledge (Optimization), and Knowledge [Craft?] (Xanatos Gambit), by the way. Along with a bunch of other similar skills that are useful on a meta level.

[SangoProduction]

You know what/ I'm going to be kinda boring and go with "artificer". I always like improving and tinkering with things. It just takes a lot of work. Having a magical knack for making magical items (at the expense of a few memories here and there. Who needed that one of my last birthday anyway?), which would then lead in to making magic items that would help me make magic items. Which would then lead in to a magic item creating factory, that hooks up to other peoples' brains to drain them instead.

Maybe move production to Africa or China where human rights aren't a thing and buying "labor" is dirt cheap? And then make a kickstarter about physically impossible contraptions and become a millionaire because people are dumb...but then...I'd have the physically impossible contraptions, and I'd have to...

OK! Time to rethink this plan! OK! I just say "screw you!" and take over the world with my physically impossible contraption and army of Void Minds!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You know what/ I'm going to be kinda boring and go with "artificer". I always like improving and tinkering with things. It just takes a lot of work. Having a magical knack for making magical items (at the expense of a few memories here and there. Who needed that one of my last birthday anyway?), which would then lead in to making magic items that would help me make magic items. Which would then lead in to a magic item creating factory, that hooks up to other peoples' brains to drain them instead.

Maybe move production to Africa or China where human rights aren't a thing and buying "labor" is dirt cheap? And then make a kickstarter about physically impossible contraptions and become a millionaire because people are dumb...but then...I'd have the physically impossible contraptions, and I'd have to...

OK! Time to rethink this plan! OK! I just say "screw you!" and take over the world with my physically impossible contraption and army of Void Minds!Why would you want to take over the world? Sounds like way too much work for not much gain. With the kind of power caster-types have, you could easily get things done and work through loyal proxies instead of taking everything over yourself. Then once the world is more or less how you like it (though given the post above, I doubt anyone else would), you could do what you want, instead of doing all that work.

[Telonius]

Cloistered Cleric 2. Nothing too special this level, though a higher Fort and Will save will be nice.

[Xar Zarath]

I would go with vanilla Wizard in Pathfinder. However quick question, do I get to reverse engineer spells from DND into PF? If so makes, my life a lot more easier and filled with even more variety.

As for my first feat, hmm, probably spell focus necromancy. If not maybe an arcane discovery like balanced summoning. Honestly the chance of learning magic alone would be immensely satisfactory. The rest is just filler.

I'd spend my days studying, trying to work new spells and maybe claiming every discovery and the bumps that go into working new spells as roleplaying xp. I cant see myself killing anything big enough to gain xp in my country.

But then again crafting doesn't require xp as far as wizards by PF standards goes so there is that. Quiet study and further works into magic would be for me. Leave me the heck alone as far as grandeur dreams of conquest or world aid.

[Lans]

Cloistered Cleric 1, seems like the best choice

[digiman619]

My current build using these rules. I'd argue I deserve the elite array (I have high intelligence AND constitution), but I gotta play by the rules given. As I was in the first thread, I'm level 2:

digiman619
Male Dwarf Monk [Monk of the Four Winds, Beastsoul Monk] 2 (Yes. If you saw me, you'd understand. While I'm not a clinical dwarf, I have the appropriate height and stockiness you'd expect, and **** it, it's my character. Also, I'd prefer to be an Unchained Monk, but the MotFW archetype technically isn't compatible as far as RAW goes, and the better SoP archetype is RAW an Unchained Monk archetype even though it replaces nothing a chained Monk lacks)
LN Medium Humanoid (Dwarf)
Init +2; Senses Darkvision 30 feet Perception +5
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10
[B]hp 19 (# HD; 2d9+6
Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +2
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.; 40 feet w/ Hybrid Transformation
Melee Bite +0 (1d6; 20/x2) | Feat +[To Hit] (Damage/Crit Range)
Ranged N/A
--------------------
Magic
--------------------
Caster Level 1; MSB 2; MSD X; Concentration +X
Tradition (If any, otherwise None); CAM Intelligence
Spell Points 2
Alteration - CL 1; DC 11; Duration (Concentration; 1 minute w/o for 1 SP); Range Self only; Talents Blank Form
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 9, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 9
Base Atk +1; CMB +2; CMD 12
Feats Toughness (Unstoppable Racial Trait), Transformation (Cat; Archetype), Elemental Fist (Archetype), Basic Magical Training (1st), HYbrid Transformation (2nd)
Traits Reactionary (+@ to Init.), Keeper of the Veil (+1 to disguise and Bluff, disguise is a class skill)
Skills: Disguise +5; +15 in Blank Form, Escape Artist +5, Perception +5, Sense Motive +5, Stralth +5,
Languages Dwarven, Common, Undercommon
Other Gear Automatic bonus progression
--------------------
Special Abilities Can transform into a Cat as a swift action (Transformation feat), or a hybrid cat-man w/40 foot speed (Improved transformation).

On second thought, can I get permission to have Slow Time replace my 12th level Ki power and go Unchained Monk? Because this fits together SO much better if I can.

On third thought, I'm going Archaic Alchemist (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/archaic-alchemist) and becoming immortal that way. Way less hassle, especially if I'm not forced to take the recommended casting tradition.

[erok0809]

I think I'll continue on with the early part of my previous plan and just take that second level in Sorcerer. But, I think I'm going to aim for Sorcerer 5/Mindbender 1/Sand Shaper 5/Fatespinner 4/Sand Shaper 10, rather than just Sorcerer 20 like I had said in the previous thread. I've done all the planning out, but with only 4 skill points per level it took some finagling to get the skills worked out, even taking up most of the early feat slots for able learner and stuff, but it'll be worth it for all the goodies in the classes.

Definitely have to take Craft Wondrous Item sometime in the future though, since unless someone else does it for me, I have no way of getting a Cloak of Charisma in the real world, and I would need one to get my charisma up to the 19+ I need for casting 9th level spells. The Standard Array is hard to work with.

[SangoProduction]

Why would you want to take over the world? Sounds like way too much work for not much gain. With the kind of power caster-types have, you could easily get things done and work through loyal proxies instead of taking everything over yourself. Then once the world is more or less how you like it (though given the post above, I doubt anyone else would), you could do what you want, instead of doing all that work.

This was a joke, btw.

[roko10]

Wizard (Divination) (Barred; Evocation).

This would save my ass so much it isn't even funny. I mean, Comprehend Languages would save me so much time on tests already, and that's just a 1st level spell.

Other than that, I'd like to stock up on Enchantment and Illusion spells. Just for giggles.

[GrayDeath]

Gonna stay on Track.

Sorcerer 2 with ultimate Goal Sorcerer 10/Dragon Disciple 10. The PF Version, obviously.
Oh and since I forgot to mention it last time: the Bloodline is Arcane. Also quite obvious me thinks. ^^

[Tiri]

I think I'll take a second level of Warlock and get Baleful Utterance, my first invocation having been Spiderwalk.

Also, I forgot to assign feats in the last thread, so I'll go with Able Learner and Animal Devotion, mostly for the flying at this point. Even a minute of flight a day is wonderful.

[Alent]

Continuing my goofy 3.P Sublime Chord Dual 9ths casting build for laughs and great retrainingcranial trauma

PF Sylvan bloodline Battle Sorc 2.

Traits: Barroom Talespinner, (Used to gain Diplomacy as a class skill.) Mentored (Used to gain Perform as a class skill.)
Feats: Negotiator, Boon Companion, Eschew ComponentsB

Animal Companion: Roc

I actually ended up looking up details on it this time. I think I must have been mixing it up with another build last thread, this boring build is pretty much straightforward if a bit stupid with archetype+ACF mixing for convenience. PF Sylvan Sorc + 3.5 ACF 7 -> Heartfire Fanner 3 -> Sublime Chord 10. Robe of Arcane Heritage + Boon Companion lets the Animal Companion get some respectable stats on it and large enough to use a flying mount.

Battle Sorc is entirely optional, I just figure I get hurt often enough the bigger hitdice is a good idea. This is probably a bad build, since I'm still not 100% sure Sublime Chord actually continues Sorcerer casting because of how terribly the Spells per day block is written, but I am highly amused at the idea of getting dual 4~9th's sorcerer progressions at full CL 20, 13th level bardic music without bard levels, and 13th level animal companion without druid levels.

[Coidzor]

I think I'll take a second level of Warlock and get Baleful Utterance, my first invocation having been Spiderwalk.

Also, I forgot to assign feats in the last thread, so I'll go with Able Learner and Animal Devotion, mostly for the flying at this point. Even a minute of flight a day is wonderful.

Beguiling Influence would be a lot more practical, I'd say, though being able to break things at will can definitely come in handy in certain areas of life.


This was a joke, btw.

It did seem like you'd be able to just make an ever-expanding army of Solar Simulacra by the time you could pull off an Emerald Legion all on your own if not sooner.

[Clopin Silk]

Druid. A level in that bad boy gives me a lot of options, Entangle lets me get out of any tough spots, create fire makes lighting fireplaces easy, and low-level healing would be a big help. Plus, eventually I'll get to the point where I can cast Remove Disease... There's someone in particular I'd want to use that on, assuming it works on genetic conditions. And if it doesn't, heck; basic healing spells would help that person out a lot, too.

[ZamielVanWeber]

1st level, Evangelist (Dr 311) of Bahamut and just stick with it for 20 levels. I would start with Pride and Dragon domains.

[Vizzerdrix]

Currently, I would be at Mystic Ranger-1/Human paragon-1. Gotta get my stats up somehow, right.

Still, I wonder how I can turn my ferrets into familiars without real arcane casting.

[Pleh]

Commoner. Take Chicken Infested. Make infinite monies. Cold, hard cash is the real power in this world. *nods*

*arbitrarily high monies.

This the real world. Infinite chicken would saturate the market and drive down the cost. Truly infinite chicken would have infinite mass, would require infinite force to lift out of your spell component pouch (plus extra energy to move fast enough to get it all out), and would consume the finite universe in a black hole from which there is no escape.

[ben-zayb]

Just gonna repost this, with the additional plan that I'd start spreading stories about certain "strange people" amongst conspiracy circles, which especially easy in this day and age. It'd be just like before with most conspiracies and hoaxes, but we'll now get actual solid evidences that will make even the skeptics pay attention.

Seriously, I'd prefer something that blends well into ordinary urban society. As much as possible, no big and flashy effects, ridiculous transformations (except disguises for blending in), eerie chants/gestures, crapton of props/items, and pulling stuff out of thin air.

So given those, I'd go first for a Telepath 5 with the Telepathy ACF, picking up Mindsight ASAP. This nets me practical uses IRL like Bluff/Diplomacy/Gather Info/Sense Motive ranks, and powers like Psionic Charm, Catfall, Synesthete, Sustenance, Psionic Tongues, Detect Hostile Intent, and Touchsight. It will be followed with Slayer 10 for immunity to being located using devices and getting Listen/Spot ranks. I'll get more nifty powers like Temporal Acceleration, Psychic Reformation, Psionic Divination, Psionic FoM, Psionic Dominate, Psionic Modify Memory, Mind Probe, Psychometry, and Mass Cloud Mind, maybe spending a feat to get Metamorphosis too for dire situations where I'll need it, or for just being in disguise. Thrallherd would be redundant if I could pick up Leadership anyway, so I'll finish it of with just more Telepath levels. By now, I'll also be having Mind Seed and True Mind Switch for virtual immortality, Psionic Greater Teleport for easy transportation (but making sure nobody sees me popping in and out), and Bend Reality.

TL;DR: Telepath 10 / Slayer 10 for subtle powers, unlocatability, leadership, and social skill suite. Basically, a build most suited for those in "suits".


I mean, Comprehend Languages would save me so much time on tests already, and that's just a 1st level spell.Wouldn't this make you understand the entire Mathematics language. Would also be hella useful for those who take advantage of understanding every single programming and scripting language

[Tiri]

Beguiling Influence would be a lot more practical, I'd say, though being able to break things at will can definitely come in handy in certain areas of life.

Well, having the ability to break things with a word is a lot rarer than simply having good social skills.

I'd also like to think that I don't really need the social skill boost that much.

[stanprollyright]

Beguiler. :smallcool:

[ben-zayb]

I'd also like to think that I don't really need the social skill boost that much.Me and Haley Starshine would have to disagree with that. Can't have enough Bluff bonus/rank

[Tiri]

Me and Haley Starshine would have to disagree with that. Can't have enough Bluff bonus/rank

Can Haley Starshine use Shatter as an at-will SLA?

[Celestia]

*arbitrarily high monies.

This the real world. Infinite chicken would saturate the market and drive down the cost. Truly infinite chicken would have infinite mass, would require infinite force to lift out of your spell component pouch (plus extra energy to move fast enough to get it all out), and would consume the finite universe in a black hole from which there is no escape.
Chickens aren't a luxury good. Sure, market saturation would drive down the cost, but at the end of the day, food is still a necessity that people will always buy. And since my expenses for these chickens are virtually non-existent, I will still make a hearty profit off each one. Hell, I could sell them for one buck a pop, and I'd still become obscenely wealthy.

[AnonymousPepper]

Oh hey, I'm now a level 2 Archivist in my planned build (Archivist 9/Contemplative 1/Dweomerkeeper 10).

I note Red Fel is only level 1. Given that he's capital-E Evil to my LG and smarter than me, that's fortunate. >_>

[Shadowscale]

Level one pathfinder cavalier for me. This mega horse is happening, and I'll get to motivate everyone else suddenly sprouting class levels; teamwork

[Pleh]

Wouldn't this make you understand the entire Mathematics language. Would also be hella useful for those who take advantage of understanding every single programming and scripting language

... I dunno. Sort of. Yes, Math and Programming can be thought of as languages, but think about it this way. Imagine if you used Comprehend Languages to understand an Elf talking about deep, arcane subjects that you have no context to understand (let's suppose you normally can't speak elven).

The spell might translate the words, but it doesn't help you Comprehend Concepts. It only translates directly and doesn't actually help you understand things that you wouldn't understand without a language barrier.

Math may be a language, but you'd still need to take ranks in Knowledge (relevant sciences) before instinctively understanding math would really be all that helpful.

Likewise with programming. It would be immensely helpful to be able to innately understand a computer's code when it comes to programming, but without an understanding of fundamental programming skills, it could easily come across as useless information. You might know what the computer is saying, but still not have the skill to reply in a meaningful way. After all, you can input any phrase you want into a computer console, but most inputs will result in an error message.

You'd probably be better off using magic to build a computer so it could magically understand and obey your commands automatically and disregarding language barriers.


Chickens aren't a luxury good. Sure, market saturation would drive down the cost, but at the end of the day, food is still a necessity that people will always buy. And since my expenses for these chickens are virtually non-existent, I will still make a hearty profit off each one. Hell, I could sell them for one buck a pop, and I'd still become obscenely wealthy.

Your expenses are time, manual labor, and logistical distribution. In theory, drawing a component out of your pouch is considered a free action. In theory, there is no limit to how many free actions you can take per round.

But talking in combat is a free action, too, and traditionally that has limits (so you can't just filibuster a monster into submission without class features that are Ex, Su, or Sp, or at least a Skill Check with a sizeable DC). Physically removing a finite amount of chickens from your bag is going to take a specific amount of time. You still have infinite chickens EVENTUALLY, but how quickly you can produce them is still very much a limit on your production. (In fact, if you try to imagine pulling a real chicken out of a real bag and do a stopwatch experiment, I doubt you could do much better than 1 or 2 chickens a round.)

Then there is manual labor. It isn't much of a physical strain to pull a chicken out of a bag, but if you spend a whole work day (8 hours) pulling chickens out of a bag, you're going to feel the physical strain (and you're going to be hungry, so set a few chickens aside for later).

Give it 1.5 chickens per round average for an 8 hour work day (each hour has 600 rounds), that's about 7200 chickens a day, or 36,000 chickens for a 5 day work week. Also, Chicken Infested only gives you about a 50% chance your components turn into a chicken, so cut this production in half.

$18,000 a week is a really good pay rate in our society, but we haven't gone into business expenses and federal or state taxes on your products yet (god help us if you want to sell internationally).

But who are you going to sell 18,000 live chickens to every week? Most people don't want to eat living chickens, so you'd have to sell to a butcher, or a large scale chicken supplier.

The large scale chicken supplier would probably be your best bet as it fixes your other problem: Logistics and Distribution (you have no magic powers to deliver your product to people across the country, so.... fedex?). The incentive for chicken is hunger, but you'll saturate your local market for chicken rather quickly (especially if your customers have to butcher the chicken themselves). If you want real earnings, you'll need the ability to sell to a national market. This means either getting hired by a corporation like Tyson, or slowly building your business from the ground up and competing with corporations like Tyson.

Sum and total: Having access to an unlimited amount of chicken does not by itself equal unlimited profit. You'll need a strong business chassis to really get off the ground. Companies today can already just clone chickens for unlimited quantity. It's just that you've found a faster, cheaper way with magic.

[Sam K]

Sorcerer or telepath - telepath is superior, but my charisma is just better than my int. I already have good diplomacy skill, combine that with charm person and the only question that remains is should I use my powers for good or evil?

[J-H]

But talking in combat is a free action, too, and traditionally that has limits (so you can't just filibuster a monster into submission without class features that are Ex, Su, or Sp, or at least a Skill Check with a sizeable DC). Physically removing a finite amount of chickens from your bag is going to take a specific amount of time. You still have infinite chickens EVENTUALLY, but how quickly you can produce them is still very much a limit on your production. (In fact, if you try to imagine pulling a real chicken out of a real bag and do a stopwatch experiment, I doubt you could do much better than 1 or 2 chickens a round.)

Then there is manual labor. It isn't much of a physical strain to pull a chicken out of a bag, but if you spend a whole work day (8 hours) pulling chickens out of a bag, you're going to feel the physical strain (and you're going to be hungry, so set a few chickens aside for later).

Give it 1.5 chickens per round average for an 8 hour work day (each hour has 600 rounds), that's about 7200 chickens a day, or 36,000 chickens for a 5 day work week. Also, Chicken Infested only gives you about a 50% chance your components turn into a chicken, so cut this production in half.

$18,000 a week is a really good pay rate in our society, but we haven't gone into business expenses and federal or state taxes on your products yet (god help us if you want to sell internationally).

But who are you going to sell 18,000 live chickens to every week? Most people don't want to eat living chickens, so you'd have to sell to a butcher, or a large scale chicken supplier.

The large scale chicken supplier would probably be your best bet as it fixes your other problem: Logistics and Distribution (you have no magic powers to deliver your product to people across the country, so.... fedex?). The incentive for chicken is hunger, but you'll saturate your local market for chicken rather quickly (especially if your customers have to butcher the chicken themselves). If you want real earnings, you'll need the ability to sell to a national market. This means either getting hired by a corporation like Tyson, or slowly building your business from the ground up and competing with corporations like Tyson.

Sum and total: Having access to an unlimited amount of chicken does not by itself equal unlimited profit. You'll need a strong business chassis to really get off the ground. Companies today can already just clone chickens for unlimited quantity. It's just that you've found a faster, cheaper way with magic.

If you're selling those chickens commercially, the USDA is going to want a documented chain of custody, likely with a physical inspection of the chicken farm at some point. "Magic chickens" could be any number of things, and the FDA will likely require a 5-10 year study at your expense to prove that they are safe.

[Tiri]

Would it be too much to ask to take this chicken discussion to another thread? You're derailing this one.

[VincentTakeda]

Evolutionist Summoner

[Elricaltovilla]

I'm thinking I'll go with investigator. They get extracts, which I like, and eventually mutagens, without the pesky FBI being worried about me creating bombs. The ability to boost my skill checks is gravy, since I probably only have a 13 INT, much as I'd like to boost it to 15...

[khadgar567]

pathfinder I will probably go aegis with upcoming starfinder contend i will have good amount of power at my disposal

[King539]

In all seriousness though, I'd probably say pathfinder wizard. Lots of useful spells for life. Like Unseen Servant.

[Red Fel]

You know, a thought occurs, and isn't precluded by the rules. So as this thread is not yet finalized, I revise my prior answer.

Gestalt Warlock 1 // Psion (Telepath) 1.

There. Now my mind can rest easy.

[Troacctid]

Gestalt is two classes. You can only pick one.

[Red Fel]

Gestalt is two classes. You can only pick one.

Pooh. You're no fun. :smalltongue:

Still have to go with Warlock, then. All-day at-will powers are a heck of a thing. Besides, at low levels, a Psion - even a Telepath - can do bugger all. You have 2 PP/day (plus more based on Int, but even with an Int like mine you'd only have a total of 6), and most of what you can use is rubbish. You're not getting anything good for another two years.

But Warlock? Out of the gate, a blast and an invocation. Could be a number of things, although Beguiling Influence or All-Seeing Eyes seem particularly useful. And once Lesser Invocations come around, there are three perfect ones just waiting - Charm, Walk Unseen, and Fell Flight. At that point you pretty much rule the world.

Try defending yourself as a Psion. You have to sleep sometime. Can you go invisible? Because a Warlock can.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Pooh. You're no fun. :smalltongue:

Still have to go with Warlock, then. All-day at-will powers are a heck of a thing. Besides, at low levels, a Psion - even a Telepath - can do bugger all. You have 2 PP/day (plus more based on Int, but even with an Int like mine you'd only have a total of 6), and most of what you can use is rubbish. You're not getting anything good for another two years.

But Warlock? Out of the gate, a blast and an invocation. Could be a number of things, although Beguiling Influence or All-Seeing Eyes seem particularly useful. And once Lesser Invocations come around, there are three perfect ones just waiting - Charm, Walk Unseen, and Fell Flight. At that point you pretty much rule the world.

Try defending yourself as a Psion. You have to sleep sometime. Can you go invisible? Because a Warlock can.Sounds like you need the psionic conversion for eldritch theurge. Warlock 3/psion 3 (or ardent 2 with Practiced Manifester)/eldritch theurge 10/psion or ardent the rest of the way. Sounds like a no-lose situation, especially if rebuilding is not an option (even via negative levels and greater restoration).

[Ludic]

Can my class be Purple? If not, then, uh, Psion(Egoist). In just six more years, I'll be able to use Psychic Reformation and become a Metamorphasis Machine!


Commoner. I have extremely low aspirations.

Or possibly artificer so I can maybe build something that can do all the hard work for me.

Could be worse, you could be a truenamer.

[Coidzor]

Could be worse, you could be a truenamer.

OTOH, Truenamers never have to worry about breaking their favorite mug after a certain point. Then again, well, Mending.

[Coventry]

I'm torn between two Pathfinder archetypes: Unsworn Shaman or the Synthesist Summoner.

The shaman has a longer ramp-up time, but a higher power level at the end, while the Summoner's "Iron Man" thing would be cool to try.

Ah, who am I trying to kid? I choose the Synthesist.

[Ludic]

OTOH, Truenamers never have to worry about breaking their favorite mug after a certain point. Then again, well, Mending.

Assuming you can make the turespeak DC to know the mug's name.

[KillingAScarab]

Why wait for the playtesting to end?

Avowed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509440-Forrestfire-Studios-Playtest-The-Avowed-a-3pp-warlock-with-a-psychic-bent) 1, elemental pact (water)

Str 9, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 13

Shapes: aether blast, aether circus
Clause: hidden knowledge

Feats: ability focus: aether pulse, silent recitation


The tide sweeps you away
But no further can you be
Than one night's sleep through winter
Time is nothing more to me
Oh and the ocean is your voice (http://www.thoushalt.net/words/#ocean)
It's howling, "Half my life is dead"
And I am screaming bloody murder
Breaking promises and bread
And I am screaming bloody murder
Breaking promises and bread

[Ywvbev]

Legendary drednoght. Best at meele.

[Red Fel]

I'm torn between two Pathfinder archetypes: Unsworn Shaman or the Synthesist Summoner.

The shaman has a longer ramp-up time, but a higher power level at the end, while the Summoner's "Iron Man" thing would be cool to try.

Ah, who am I trying to kid? I choose the Synthesist.

For Iron Man, you're probably better off with the Aegis.

Compare. First off, the Summoner uses arcane spells, which means it has to worry about components and highly visual effects. And while the Aegis does not receive powers, it is a psionic class and receives power points; if you multiclass or PrC, or harness Power Stones, those points carry, and psionics - as has come up repeatedly in this thread - require neither components or messy visual effects. Second, a Summoner's Eidolon is immediately banished if the Summoner is unconscious; nowhere does the language of Synthesist change that. The Aegis has no such language with respect to his Astral Suit; once formed, it remains formed unless dismissed or otherwise removed. So you can sleep in that bad boy.

[Vizzerdrix]

Maybe I should have gone generic caster-1/ human paragon-1 instead. Hmm... no, chameleon will have better payouts in time.

[Jack_Simth]

For Iron Man, you're probably better off with the Aegis.

Compare. First off, the Summoner uses arcane spells, which means it has to worry about components and highly visual effects. And while the Aegis does not receive powers, it is a psionic class and receives power points; if you multiclass or PrC, or harness Power Stones, those points carry, and psionics - as has come up repeatedly in this thread - require neither components or messy visual effects. Second, a Summoner's Eidolon is immediately banished if the Summoner is unconscious; nowhere does the language of Synthesist change that. The Aegis has no such language with respect to his Astral Suit; once formed, it remains formed unless dismissed or otherwise removed. So you can sleep in that bad boy.

If you go Pathfinder, anything that can craft magical things can get you an iron man suit, thanks to construct armor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs#TOC-Construct-Armor).

Side note: As discussed in the last thread, for a Pathfinder crafter (who needs worry only about the GP value in crafting), Salt is about the best source. 5 GP per pound, and you can find 50 pound bags for under $20 quite easily.

[LordOfCain]

Hm... What class, what class... Gonna have to say binder. The versatility combined with the cool factor...

[ben-zayb]

Still have to go with Warlock, then. All-day at-will powers are a heck of a thing. Besides, at low levels, a Psion - even a Telepath - can do bugger all. You have 2 PP/day (plus more based on Int, but even with an Int like mine you'd only have a total of 6), and most of what you can use is rubbish. You're not getting anything good for another two years.

But Warlock? Out of the gate, a blast and an invocation. Could be a number of things, although Beguiling Influence or All-Seeing Eyes seem particularly useful. And once Lesser Invocations come around, there are three perfect ones just waiting - Charm, Walk Unseen, and Fell Flight. At that point you pretty much rule the world.

Try defending yourself as a Psion. You have to sleep sometime. Can you go invisible? Because a Warlock can.But can you "Kilgrave" your way with Charm + Diplomacy with Warlock at level 1? It'd be so easy to track every playgrounder's IP by controlling the right person. Easy to turn people against those "witches", and possessing an obscenely, obviously magical ability isn't gonna help one's case. I would've expected more subtlety out of the gate from Red Fel, really.

[Menzath]

Huh. Think I'll go with spell to power erudite, flaw-shaky, feats-overchannel, talented, and able learner.

[Talwar]

I'm now a 3.5 Ranger-1.

Str: 9
Dex: 8
Con: 12
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 9
...This account for middle age adjustments, yay me.

Feat: Self-Sufficient (+2 to Heal and Survival)

[danielxcutter]

Hmmm... Bard. I love stories in all their forms, and I actually have plans for an OotS-style webcomic in the future. Not for a few years, though, but I *will* get to it eventually.

[Red Fel]

But can you "Kilgrave" your way with Charm + Diplomacy with Warlock at level 1? It'd be so easy to track every playgrounder's IP by controlling the right person. Easy to turn people against those "witches", and possessing an obscenely, obviously magical ability isn't gonna help one's case. I would've expected more subtlety out of the gate from Red Fel, really.

I picked Warlock in order to get things I can't already do.

Please. The fact that you even ask this proves just how powerful I already am. Why do I need to magically control minds when I don't need magic for it?

I'll take invisibility, flying, and lasers, at will. Those are things currently beyond my means.

Besides, look over the Psion powers list again. At first level, the Psion can't "Kilgrave" either. At best, you can Charm one person, for one hour - if he fails a save - twice a day. I don't need saves. Ask anybody on this forum who plays LG - you don't get saves when I'm talking.

Subtlety is valuable. But when you already have subtlety in abundance, sometimes what you need is precisely the opposite.

[Troacctid]

Conceal Thoughts is pretty nice though. And Empathy doesn't offer a save.

I'm probably sticking with Bard. I do like skills, and I'll need CL 3 for Obtain Familiar. I might retrain to Sphere Bard for my PF build, maybe.

[Red Fel]

Conceal Thoughts is pretty nice though. And Empathy doesn't offer a save.

Conceal Thoughts has two effects. The first is a big boost to Bluff, but only versus Sense Motive, and only when it's being used to discern your intentions, which is fairly limited. The second is a bonus against actual mind-reading, and assuming you're the only person with class levels in the world, that's really not a thing. By contrast, Beguiling Whispers gives a straight-up +6 to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate, without qualifiers, all day.

And Empathy lets you know what people around you are feeling. If you're me, you already know that - angry, confused, intimidated, awed, or any combination of the three.

Out of curiosity, can we take PF feat progression?

[nyjastul69]

Do we get age adjustments based upon our actual age?

[Troacctid]

Out of curiosity, can we take PF feat progression?
Only for a PF build.


Do we get age adjustments based upon our actual age?
Yes.

[Coidzor]

Do we get age adjustments based upon our actual age?

I don't see why not.

Although I really hope you don't gain a max life expectancy per the table.

[Red Fel]

Only for a PF build.

Oh, pish. Well, if I were going with PF, I'd go with a Rakshasa Bloodline Sorcerer. Tough choice.

[nyjastul69]

Oh, pish. Well, if I were going with PF, I'd go with a Rakshasa Bloodline Sorcerer. Tough choice.

I think you can go PF or 3.5.

If one has middle age adjustments, does one have to take them? I will, I'm just curious about the rules set up.

[Strigon]

Hmph. With my 1 prior Wizard level, that covers an awful lot of my bases.
The things that would most benefit me from here is high HP, and some healing; I can live comfortably, so now it's just a matter of staying alive. I think, therefore, I should go with Cleric. Although that is a bit annoying, in that I'd have to spend an awful lot of time daily preparing spells.

[Troacctid]

I think you can go PF or 3.5.
You can also give an answer for each if you like.


If one has middle age adjustments, does one have to take them? I will, I'm just curious about the rules set up.
Yes.

[nyjastul69]

With those givens I choose not to play. Middle age penalties combined with a crappy array say no thank you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

With those givens I choose not to play. Middle age penalties combined with a crappy array say no thank you.It's not hard to buff yourself to the 9s before too long. Nor is it difficult to gain immortality. Like, at all. And with magic, quite literally anything is possible, including creating your own custom body to mind-swap with.

[nyjastul69]

It's not hard to buff yourself to the 9s before too long. Nor is it difficult to gain immortality. Like, at all. And with magic, quite literally anything is possible, including creating your own custom body to mind-swap with.

True, but I'm already behind by a level. There isn't anything that levels the playing field with the given rule set.

[Alent]

True, but I'm already behind by a level. There isn't anything that levels the playing field with the given rule set.

This is true. Maybe implement an EXP flows like a river rule? Catch up by a year for every 2 participating?

[YossarianLives]

I'd have to go for cleric; free food and instantly heal pretty much any wound. Probably with the Travel (gotta go fast) and Trickery (disguise self!) domains.

[Troacctid]

True, but I'm already behind by a level. There isn't anything that levels the playing field with the given rule set.
I mean, you're still ahead of probably literally everyone else in your town?

[ben-zayb]

Please. The fact that you even ask this proves just how powerful I already am. Why do I need to magically control minds when I don't need magic for it?

I'll take invisibility, flying, and lasers, at will. Those are things currently beyond my means.

Besides, look over the Psion powers list again. At first level, the Psion can't "Kilgrave" either. At best, you can Charm one person, for one hour - if he fails a save - twice a day. I don't need saves. Ask anybody on this forum who plays LG - you don't get saves when I'm talking.

Subtlety is valuable. But when you already have subtlety in abundance, sometimes what you need is precisely the opposite.Fair point on subtlety and already getting your CHA skills up, but neither good Bluff nor good Intimidate exactly does what Diplomacy can until the Exemplar levels.:smalltongue:

By Psionic "Kilgrave", I was referring to using Charm to turn them Friendly, then Helpful with an easy DC20 Diplomacy check. Extremely cheesy RAW, but it works.

[nyjastul69]

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This is true. Maybe implement an EXP flows like a river rule? Catch up by a year for every 2 participating?Or just pretend that everyone was here last year. "You're level 2 now. What's your deal?"

[Pleh]

Some people are assuming they are the only pc in the world. Others assume everyone in the thread coexists as PCs.

Some people assume we are competitive with each other in this alternate reality.

[Malimar]

Int my only non-dump stat. Too lazy to put in the work of being a wizard or archivist. I'd go factotum, but they don't start getting anything good until a couple levels in. Tempted by warlock (30% better at diplomacy (I hardly ever bluff or intimidate) sounds nice, or speak with animals + wild empathy could be fun), I dunno about the wisdom of making eldritch pacts with dark forces, I don't think I'm clever enough to make that work out in my favor in the end, plus my alignment disqualifies me, so I'm leaning towards psion. Seer, probably, mostly for clairvoyant sense a couple levels down the line.

My first thought is to take attraction, but that's a little abusive. Far hand would be a bit useful. Maybe even precognition -- I usually disdain +1s and +2s, but making any task 10% easier sounds like something I could use in my life.

[ZamielVanWeber]

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

It is a fun little exercise Troacctid is running. Not sure why you and others are bent out of shape by it. If I were use a stat pan based on real life estimations I would have 3 8s, one of which is in wisdom so no divine casting for me. The non-elite array and aging penalties hurts, sure, but I will deal as hey, I get to be me with divine casting.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

My base stats would only be around for as long as it takes for me to replace them. The physical stats are the easiest to replace wholesale, so those will be the lowest, with Int, Wis, and Cha being the highest, possibly in that order. But eventually, all of them will be boosted way above the starting array, so I'm not too terribly worried about them, so long as my class abilities function properly from the get-go.

[El Dorado]

Transmuter wizard 1.
Opposition schools: Divination, Enchantment
Str 10, Dex 9, Con 11, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 9 (age-adjusted)
hp: 10
Feats: Great Fortitude, Toughness

Even a little magic would be amazing.

[Esprit15]

Taking more Factotum. Gotta continue my plans to win at the world, after all!

[Troacctid]

I'll add the option to use the standard array for people who think they don't have any dump stats.

[Tohsaka Rin]

To be fair, some of us don't have any dump stats.

Some of us just roll really, really, really poorly.

All. The. Time.

[Celestia]

Transmuter wizard 1.
Opposition schools: Divination, Enchantment
Str 10, Dex 9, Con 11, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 9 (age-adjusted)
hp: 10
Feats: Great Fortitude, Toughness

Even a little magic would be amazing.
You can't bar Divination.

[digiman619]

You can't bar Divination.

You can in Pathfinder.

[Celestia]

You can in Pathfinder.
I see. So, in Pathfinder, Divination is exclusively used by Clerics? :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

I see. So, in Pathfinder, Divination is exclusively used by Clerics? :smallbiggrin:

It just costs 2 spell slots to prepare a spell of your opposition schools in PF.

[Celestia]

It just costs 2 spell slots to prepare a spell of your opposition schools in PF.
Wow. Now that is just stupid. :|

[digiman619]

I see. So, in Pathfinder, Divination is exclusively used by Clerics? :smallbiggrin:

No, but Specialist Wizards in Pathfinder can bar any two schools, rather than preset ones.

[Eldariel]

Feels rather obvious, Cloistered Cleric with high Wisdom. Good skills, lots of spell access with no effort, and the ability to prepare whatever I want daily. Being able to fix damage to objects, cure various kinds of injuries, create water and things of that nature feels quite convenient. Now, arcanists do get Prestidigitation, which might well be worth taking Extra Spell for.

[Shalist]

2nd level of sorcerer, heading towards sorcerer / dweomerkeeper. 6 4 more levels till bestow curse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20363630&postcount=136) and 16 till wish, barring shenanigans.

edit: Taking the 'Domain Access (Fate)' ACF (CC 52) at 5th level, for access to bestow curse as a 3rd level spell.

[Pleh]

No, but Specialist Wizards in Pathfinder can bar any two schools, rather than preset ones.

Preset? Not sure what this means, but 3.5 only says you can't choose divination to be your forbidden school. There aren't any presets to my knowledge?

[Tiri]

2nd level of sorcerer, heading towards sorcerer / dweomerkeeper. 6 more levels till bestow curse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20363630&postcount=136) and 16 till wish, barring shenanigans.

You could get Bestow Curse in 4 levels if you took that Sorcerer ACF in Complete Champion that gives you domain spells.

[Shalist]

You could get Bestow Curse in 4 levels if you took that Sorcerer ACF in Complete Champion that gives you domain spells.

Thanks! 'Domain Access' at 5th level. The Fate domain for bestow curse as a 3rd level spell, Destiny for bestow curse, greater as a 7th, or Envy for wish as an 8th. Definitely going with Fate, so the tempting thereof can start sooner :smallsmile:

[KillingAScarab]

Oh, pish. Well, if I were going with PF, I'd go with a Rakshasa Bloodline Sorcerer. Tough choice.Very interesting, though you may want to take a look at the (still in playtesting) avowed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509440-Forrestfire-Studios-Playtest-The-Avowed-a-3pp-warlock-with-a-psychic-bent). The end-goal is a warlock for Pathfinder with more flexibility regarding what grants one their power. The PDF also includes, "Souls: A buyer's guide," at the end.

[Jack_Simth]

Preset? Not sure what this means, but 3.5 only says you can't choose divination to be your forbidden school. There aren't any presets to my knowledge?

It was a 3.0 thing; see the 3rd edition Player's Handbook, page 54, the bottom 'sidebar'. Also showed up in Neverwinter Nights.

Some people are assuming they are the only pc in the world. Others assume everyone in the thread coexists as PCs.

Some people assume we are competitive with each other in this alternate reality.

Well, unless the power that gave it to you specifies, you encounter someone with comperable abilities, or you Commune to ask, you don't know for certain whether or not other people got the same boon (and even with Commune, you don't necessarily know how the DM rules the interaction with Nondetection, Mind Blank, and similar abilities).

Consider: If 200 different people got the boon, and they are all scattered evenly in the United States, that's about one in 1.6 million. If it's scattered evenly worldwide, that's about one in 37 million. If you know half a million people, you still have pretty low odds of knowing someone else with the boon (Edit: For reference, Troacctid listed 101 participants in the first thread).

As a result, up until you draw attention to yourself, or someone goes specifically hunting for others with the boon, it is relatively safe to act as though you're the only one that has it even if you're not. Likewise, if you are the only one with the boon, then it really doesn't hurt much to assume other people like you exist - especially at levels where a muggle sniper can still kill you via bullet to the brain (which will be most of them). Either way, drawing attention to yourself is a bad idea for a long, long time.

As to coexist vs. compete... well, if you get ten humans in one room you're liable to have at least five differing opinions on the details of what should be. Personality conflicts and differing opinions on how these powers ought to be used will produce conflict after more than a few such individuals find out about each other (if nothing else, more than one person will want to rule the world exclusively). Yes, there will also be cooperation, and after a lot of people come to each others' attention, you're liable to get factions... but if there's more than a few, competition will happen (and might even if there are only a few).

Edit: And... as apparently we can't pick race and are stuck with human, revising plan slightly:


Let's see... thinking more on my outline from earlier...
Dual-cursed Spirit Guide Oracle (Occult, Dual-cursed (Forsaken (advancing) and Legalistic (non-advancing))).

Stats: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 -> Cha / Wis / Int / Con / Dex / Str

Race: (If selectable): Kitsune. Either way, with PF mechanics, +2 Cha in the mix, so Cha 15 at 1st, and either way, I get to look like me full time.

At 3rd, the Spirit Guide archetype lets me pick Arcane spells by way of the Lore Spirit's Arcane Enlightenment hex when I hit. Now, initially, I can only pick up a single 1st level spell this way, but that's not much of an issue, as the one I'll most often want (initially, at least) is Blood Money. On crafting days, though, the one I'll want is Benefits of Wisdom (use Cha instead of Int for skill checks - which includes Craft, Knowledge, and Spellcraft, among others).

Revelations:
1: Misfortune (Immediate Action rerolls 1/day/person... nothing stops me from using it on myself when I fail a roll)
5: Automatic Writing (free Augury/Divination/Commune, depending on level - good for investing)
11: Spirit Walk (go incorporeal for a few rounds)
13: Fortune (Immediate Action rerolls for me - good for gambling and 'oops' moments)
19: Shroud of Retribution (mostly because I was running out of ones that seemed good)

Feats:
1: Noble Scion (Scion of War)
HB: Scribe Scroll
3: Craft Wondrous Item
5: Craft Magic Arms & Armor
7: Forge Ring
9: Craft Rod (Pathfinder crafting lets me bypass some requirements - such as needing the metamagic feat to make the metamagic rod)
11: Flyby attack (Incorporeal lets me fly)
13: Craft Staff
15: Craft Wand (or Realistic Likeness, if Kitsune)
17: Craft Construct (or Fox Shape, if Kitsune)
19: Scribe Scroll (or Swift Kitsune Shapechanger, if Kitsune) Heighten Spell (I've got a while to settle on one)

Traits... Spark of Creation, and Finding your Kin (yes, it's a campaign trait, but it gives me extra skill points AND hit points!)

Use the Favored Class Bonuses for skill points if Kitsune, spells if human. Either way, I end up with 6 skill points/level until I get my Int up (which I will, because Crafter)

Skills...
Max Ranks each in:
UMD (not class, but still very useful, especially with a Charisma-based caster... especially as it allows me to potentially cherry-pick a few revelations from other mysteries via that one ring)
Spellcraft (Crafting skill)
Diplomacy (What? I'd like to be able to win friends and influence people more readily)
Sense Motive (Defensive social skill)
Perception (Defensive stealth skill)
Profession/Craft for my current job - don't want to get fired, after all.

As for magic items (as hey, Crafter): All of the 'good ones' when I'm able to make them. For crafting... yeah, use the trade goods rule and salt. Cheap trick, but ethical enough. Look around online a little, and you can get a 25 pound bag of salt online for like $9... so that's 125 crafting GP for $9, or 7.2 cents per crafting GP material cost. And... that's assuming I don't contact a salt manufacturer and get it in *real* bulk. Make a headband for different "personalities" (Headbands of Mental Superiority +6, each of which has three different skill sets - trade a headband, wait a day, and pretend to be someone else).

I have lots of useable skills at 1st level - Immediate Action Reroll 1/day is great for gambling at a 49/51 win/lose 'double or lose' game such as roulette. Place a few bets, then go home; don't bet all my any given throw, money, but do use the reroll the first time I would otherwise lose, and then go home.

At 10th, I become much harder to kill (free automatic Raise Dead 1/week, followed by Blood Money to use Restoration on myself to get rid of the negative levels).

At 20th, I go Ghost and never look back.

[Karl Aegis]

Sidhe Scholar. I feel like having the companionship of a particularly handsome chicken would at some point be of interest to me. Or a cute dog to take pictures of. Either one would be fine.

[khadgar567]

Sidhe Scholar. I feel like having the companionship of a particularly handsome chicken would at some point be of interest to me. Or a cute dog to take pictures of. Either one would be fine.
If i think what you are thinking its less about scholarly pursuits more about finding whats the nights catch is your main focus.

[Sapreaver]

Level 2 oracle.
I realized in my last post i didn't specify both curses.
Unchained and forgotten with unchained advancing
Mystery is life and revelation is channel energy.

[GrayDeath]

Well, seeing the Avowed, yeah, if it had been around last time I would have gone that route.

Sigh....we probably can`t change, even if the class we would want to take wasn`t around last time, can we?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Level 2 oracle.
I realized in my last post i didn't specify both curses.
Unchained and forgotten with unchained advancing
Mystery is life and revelation is channel energy.The Unchained curse is my favorite thing in Pathfinder.

[Vizzerdrix]

True, but I'm already behind by a level. There isn't anything that levels the playing field with the given rule set.

You would have to optomize a bit, but the single level loss wouldnt amout to much depending on your irl skills.

In just 4 easy steps, you can be living in the lap of luxary and gain power.

Step 1- Commoner 1 with weresheep flaw. Lycanthropy gives a tastey little wis boost. You will want that as your top stat.
Step 2- get MORE wisdom. I dont care how, just get it as high as you can. I know BoEF has some naughty feats that can bump up your stats if you do the horazontal tango. As a weresheep you should have no end of furry and lonely farmers lining up for your effections.
Step 3- Shapesand. Shapesand. Shapesand. You will need to gain access to it either through crafting skills or the crafting feats from UA. Either way, this is the important part. You want to be in control of as much and at your maximum wis check as you can be.
Step 4- Study the things you want in detail. Want a boat? Make a boat! Want a house? Make a house! Want to end the world? Make a second, unsheilded Elephants Foot and let it burn its way through the mantle in Yellowstone. Or you could feed tasty sammiches to your enemies, then turn it into glass inside them. Your call.

And the best part? You will be a sheep the entire time! NOBODY EVER EXPECTS THE SHEEP! Mwaha ha ha ha ha haaa!

[Red Fel]

Very interesting, though you may want to take a look at the (still in playtesting) avowed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509440-Forrestfire-Studios-Playtest-The-Avowed-a-3pp-warlock-with-a-psychic-bent). The end-goal is a warlock for Pathfinder with more flexibility regarding what grants one their power. The PDF also includes, "Souls: A buyer's guide," at the end.

Having read this... Boy howdy, I must say. Fiend Pact looks delightful, especially the part where you gain your independence and your own realm by the end. But I feel like I'd have to craft my own Pact; Self looks closer to where my mind lives, but somehow I don't see my indomitable sense of self making me excellent at punching. Love the idea, though.

I do like that bit on souls at the end, and will read it further.


Sigh....we probably can`t change, even if the class we would want to take wasn`t around last time, can we?


(You may retrain using the standard retraining rules.)

Retraining is a thing, chief.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Mwaha ha ha ha ha haaa!I believe you mean, Baaa ha ha ha ha!

[SirNibbles]

Archivist + Internet seems like a pretty powerful combination.

[Novolin]

I will be a Paladin. Useful to detect evil.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Archivist + Internet seems like a pretty powerful combination.You only need enough Knowledge skills to cover humanoids, animals, and vermin, assuming no interplanar invasions.

[Jack_Simth]

You only need enough Knowledge skills to cover humanoids, animals, and vermin, assuming no interplanar invasions.
With other people in the mix, you'll also need to know about undead, fey, and outsiders. Summon Undead, Summon Monster, and Summon Nature's Ally can bring them in temporarily. For shapeshifting, you'll also want to know about Dragons and magical beasts - maybe Abberations and Giants as well. If you plan on building your own minions, you may want to know about Constructs....

[Pleh]

As to coexist vs. compete... well, if you get ten humans in one room you're liable to have at least five differing opinions on the details of what should be. Personality conflicts and differing opinions on how these powers ought to be used will produce conflict after more than a few such individuals find out about each other (if nothing else, more than one person will want to rule the world exclusively). Yes, there will also be cooperation, and after a lot of people come to each others' attention, you're liable to get factions... but if there's more than a few, competition will happen (and might even if there are only a few).

See, that's my thing. Choices for class will naturally be different if you are either uniquely gifted or if we all have this gift in the same world. If only the mundane world could harm you, you plan for that.

If you have dozens of potential pvp threats, that might prompt a selection change as you're now trying to race to be the first to reach pun pun.

[El Dorado]

See, that's my thing. Choices for class will naturally be different if you are either uniquely gifted or if we all have this gift in the same world. If only the mundane world could harm you, you plan for that.

If you have dozens of potential pvp threats, that might prompt a selection change as you're now trying to race to be the first to reach pun pun.

This will turn into Highlander. With spells. :smallbiggrin:

[Doc_Maynot]

I just gained my very first level? Then Factotum, no regrets. Good skill points to help me with my everyday life, a wide variety of skills I can use (ALL OF THEM), and the ability to boost up those skills (sure, by only one... But still a decent bit) circumstantially through the day.

[SangoProduction]

It was a 3.0 thing; see the 3rd edition Player's Handbook, page 54, the bottom 'sidebar'. Also showed up in Neverwinter Nights.


Well, unless the power that gave it to you specifies, you encounter someone with comperable abilities, or you Commune to ask, you don't know for certain whether or not other people got the same boon (and even with Commune, you don't necessarily know how the DM rules the interaction with Nondetection, Mind Blank, and similar abilities).

Consider: If 200 different people got the boon, and they are all scattered evenly in the United States, that's about one in 1.6 million. If it's scattered evenly worldwide, that's about one in 37 million. If you know half a million people, you still have pretty low odds of knowing someone else with the boon (Edit: For reference, Troacctid listed 101 participants in the first thread).

As a result, up until you draw attention to yourself, or someone goes specifically hunting for others with the boon, it is relatively safe to act as though you're the only one that has it even if you're not. Likewise, if you are the only one with the boon, then it really doesn't hurt much to assume other people like you exist - especially at levels where a muggle sniper can still kill you via bullet to the brain (which will be most of them). Either way, drawing attention to yourself is a bad idea for a long, long time.

As to coexist vs. compete... well, if you get ten humans in one room you're liable to have at least five differing opinions on the details of what should be. Personality conflicts and differing opinions on how these powers ought to be used will produce conflict after more than a few such individuals find out about each other (if nothing else, more than one person will want to rule the world exclusively). Yes, there will also be cooperation, and after a lot of people come to each others' attention, you're liable to get factions... but if there's more than a few, competition will happen (and might even if there are only a few).

Edit: And... as apparently we can't pick race and are stuck with human, revising plan slightly:


Let's see... thinking more on my outline from earlier...
Dual-cursed Spirit Guide Oracle (Occult, Dual-cursed (Forsaken (advancing) and Legalistic (non-advancing))).

Stats: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 -> Cha / Wis / Int / Con / Dex / Str

Race: (If selectable): Kitsune. Either way, with PF mechanics, +2 Cha in the mix, so Cha 15 at 1st, and either way, I get to look like me full time.

At 3rd, the Spirit Guide archetype lets me pick Arcane spells by way of the Lore Spirit's Arcane Enlightenment hex when I hit. Now, initially, I can only pick up a single 1st level spell this way, but that's not much of an issue, as the one I'll most often want (initially, at least) is Blood Money. On crafting days, though, the one I'll want is Benefits of Wisdom (use Cha instead of Int for skill checks - which includes Craft, Knowledge, and Spellcraft, among others).

Revelations:
1: Misfortune (Immediate Action rerolls 1/day/person... nothing stops me from using it on myself when I fail a roll)
5: Automatic Writing (free Augury/Divination/Commune, depending on level - good for investing)
11: Spirit Walk (go incorporeal for a few rounds)
13: Fortune (Immediate Action rerolls for me - good for gambling and 'oops' moments)
19: Shroud of Retribution (mostly because I was running out of ones that seemed good)

Feats:
1: Noble Scion (Scion of War)
HB: Scribe Scroll
3: Craft Wondrous Item
5: Craft Magic Arms & Armor
7: Forge Ring
9: Craft Rod (Pathfinder crafting lets me bypass some requirements - such as needing the metamagic feat to make the metamagic rod)
11: Flyby attack (Incorporeal lets me fly)
13: Craft Staff
15: Craft Wand (or Realistic Likeness, if Kitsune)
17: Craft Construct (or Fox Shape, if Kitsune)
19: Scribe Scroll (or Swift Kitsune Shapechanger, if Kitsune) Heighten Spell (I've got a while to settle on one)

Traits... Spark of Creation, and Finding your Kin (yes, it's a campaign trait, but it gives me extra skill points AND hit points!)

Use the Favored Class Bonuses for skill points if Kitsune, spells if human. Either way, I end up with 6 skill points/level until I get my Int up (which I will, because Crafter)

Skills...
Max Ranks each in:
UMD (not class, but still very useful, especially with a Charisma-based caster... especially as it allows me to potentially cherry-pick a few revelations from other mysteries via that one ring)
Spellcraft (Crafting skill)
Diplomacy (What? I'd like to be able to win friends and influence people more readily)
Sense Motive (Defensive social skill)
Perception (Defensive stealth skill)
Profession/Craft for my current job - don't want to get fired, after all.

As for magic items (as hey, Crafter): All of the 'good ones' when I'm able to make them. For crafting... yeah, use the trade goods rule and salt. Cheap trick, but ethical enough. Look around online a little, and you can get a 25 pound bag of salt online for like $9... so that's 125 crafting GP for $9, or 7.2 cents per crafting GP material cost. And... that's assuming I don't contact a salt manufacturer and get it in *real* bulk. Make a headband for different "personalities" (Headbands of Mental Superiority +6, each of which has three different skill sets - trade a headband, wait a day, and pretend to be someone else).

I have lots of useable skills at 1st level - Immediate Action Reroll 1/day is great for gambling at a 49/51 win/lose 'double or lose' game such as roulette. Place a few bets, then go home; don't bet all my any given throw, money, but do use the reroll the first time I would otherwise lose, and then go home.

At 10th, I become much harder to kill (free automatic Raise Dead 1/week, followed by Blood Money to use Restoration on myself to get rid of the negative levels).

At 20th, I go Ghost and never look back.

At first I thought this sounded like a good basis for a story...and then I realized I was just rewriting The Highlander.

[Red Fel]

See, that's my thing. Choices for class will naturally be different if you are either uniquely gifted or if we all have this gift in the same world. If only the mundane world could harm you, you plan for that.

If you have dozens of potential pvp threats, that might prompt a selection change as you're now trying to race to be the first to reach pun pun.

On the one hand, very much this. If we were all planning to compete, a bunch of people would build optimized Wizard 20s and be done with it.

Fortunately, on the other hand, I don't have that problem. Whether I'm the only PC in the world, or there are other PCs, there's just no competing with me.

Venite ad me, frater.

[Vizzerdrix]

I dunno Red Fel. I think the weresheep shapesand build I posted would surprise you. Think about it! It would lul you to sleep late at night by jumping over your bed as you lay there, then BAM! Your pillow turns into a pile of dirty socks, and your blanket is turned into a slightly too short blanket! :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

You only need enough Knowledge skills to cover humanoids, animals, and vermin, assuming no interplanar invasions.

You know at some point, someone is going to learn Halaster's Fetch just so they can dump a bunch of angels into the world and see what happens.

[GrayDeath]

Having read this... Boy howdy, I must say. Fiend Pact looks delightful, especially the part where you gain your independence and your own realm by the end. But I feel like I'd have to craft my own Pact; Self looks closer to where my mind lives, but somehow I don't see my indomitable sense of self making me excellent at punching. Love the idea, though.

I do like that bit on souls at the end, and will read it further.





Retraining is a thing, chief.

Hmmm, very good. We rarely.if ever used them, so.need to check.them now.

Avowed, here I.come.

[Troacctid]

I'm not super familiar with Pathfinder's retraining rules, but if they allow you to change your class, then you can do that. I know you can't in 3.5, though.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm not super familiar with Pathfinder's retraining rules, but if they allow you to change your class, then you can do that. I know you can't in 3.5, though.Rebuilding does, however. It's significantly more of a pain, but it's fully doable.

Also, combining permanegative levels and either a thought bottle or greater restoration allows you to rebuild very, very quickly, by comparison.

[Braininthejar2]

Only one level?

I'd go for cleric. (weird, I know, I'm an atheist) with the domain powers, it's an awesome dip, and you wouldn't believe how many times I wished I had access to cure minor wounds in real life.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Only one level?

I'd go for cleric. (weird, I know, I'm an atheist) with the domain powers, it's an awesome dip, and you wouldn't believe how many times I wished I had access to cure minor wounds in real life.Don't gotta be religious to be a cleric in most campaign settings. You could play children's card games and believe in the heart of the cards.

It's super-special-awesome! [/YGOTAS]

[Troacctid]

Rebuilding does, however. It's significantly more of a pain, but it's fully doable.
This exercise doesn't provide a way to rebuild. It might be possible with stuff like Wish, but you'd have to try it and find out. (You wouldn't know whether or not it's possible until you get there. I guess you could try stuff like Commune before then.)

[Pleh]

Don't gotta be religious to be a cleric in most campaign settings. You could play children's card games and believe in the heart of the cards.

It's super-special-awesome! [/YGOTAS]

Indeed, you don't have to be religious in the core rules (3.5, at least, dunno about pf).

You can be a cleric of an ideal. Most atheists I've met would consider themselves humanitarians, which could easily be an acceptable cleric ideal.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This exercise doesn't provide a way to rebuild. It might be possible with stuff like Wish, but you'd have to try it and find out. (You wouldn't know whether or not it's possible until you get there. I guess you could try stuff like Commune before then.)The negative levels definitely work; only houserules say otherwise, and there are no houserules in regards to using them.

[Troacctid]

The negative levels definitely work; only houserules say otherwise, and there are no houserules in regards to using them.
Oh, probably, sure. It would take quite a bit of investment to get it rolling though.

[Jack_Simth]

The negative levels definitely work; only houserules say otherwise, and there are no houserules in regards to using them.

Possible problems (probably can be overcome, but bear mentioning):
1) Level loss loses the most recent levels first.
2) How are you planning on doing so safely as a 2nd level character?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Possible problems (probably can be overcome, but bear mentioning):
1) Level loss loses the most recent levels first.
2) How are you planning on doing so safely as a 2nd level character?2 is easy. Craft Contingent Spell FTW. 1 doesn't matter so much, especially if you knock off all but your first level.

[Jack_Simth]

2 is easy. Craft Contingent Spell FTW. 1 doesn't matter so much, especially if you knock off all but your first level.

A couple of things...
1) Craft Contingent Spell requires a caster level of 11. How are you making this as a second level character?
2) How are you getting the associated Restoration as a 2nd level character?
3) How are you losing the level as a second level character?
4) Contextually this particular conversation thread kicked off when GrayDeath was wanting to trade out level 1.
At first I thought this sounded like a good basis for a story...and then I realized I was just rewriting The Highlander.
A couple of things:
1) Highlander actually did quite a few things well. It also did quite a few things badly. A rewrite could be a good thing.
2) Highlander had some fairly active pressure for everyone to go out and kill each other with edged weapons. You've got a lot of things in here that change those pressures, and you'll have far different results as a consequence.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A couple of things...
1) Craft Contingent Spell requires a caster level of 11. How are you making this as a second level character?
2) How are you getting the associated Restoration as a 2nd level character?
3) How are you losing the level as a second level character?
4) Contextually this particular conversation thread kicked off when GrayDeath was wanting to trade out level 1.Never said it had to be done right now. Rebuilding would be available, except houserules, and that was my original suggestion.

I'm sure there are ways, though it'd take some thought. Probably involving various and myriad ways to get free wishes.

[Coidzor]

A couple of things:
1) Highlander actually did quite a few things well. It also did quite a few things badly. A rewrite could be a good thing.
2) Highlander had some fairly active pressure for everyone to go out and kill each other with edged weapons. You've got a lot of things in here that change those pressures, and you'll have far different results as a consequence.

Indeed, a number of us would probably be interested in buggering off and leaving this plane of existence behind completely once Plane Shift becomes available in one form or another. Others would be perfectly content gathering up a cult following and heading off into space. A few people are going to be interested in making sure that existence isn't dominated by some psychopathic chucklehead who has gone mad with power.

The only people with an impetus towards murder are those who are antisocial and those who want to nip the problem of someone trying to murder them and take over the world and rule it with an iron fist for all eternity in the bud. Maybe a few people down the line might go mad with power or from having abused mind control and had what moral perspective they had eroded, but probably not in the kill everyone else who isn't a muggle sort of way.

[Troacctid]

Never said it had to be done right now. Rebuilding would be available, except houserules, and that was my original suggestion.
By RAW, rebuilding requires a rebuild quest, and only a small handful of options are available in the book. All of them require specific locations that you don't have access to. Even if such locations exist, there's a chance (again, by RAW) that they might only allow for certain types of rebuilds—for example, the Gates of Dawn might only allow character rebuilds related to divine magic, fey, or redemption, while the Necrotic Cradle might rebuild you only into character classes related to necromancy—or that they might only be usable once per character. And on top of that, they only work within a narrow band of three levels (once again, this is the RAW), so if you're not in the correct level range, you're SOL.

So I don't know what you're talking about with this "would be available, except houserules" stuff—houserules would be required to make it available.

[digiman619]

By RAW, rebuilding requires a rebuild quest, and only a small handful of options are available in the book. All of them require specific locations that you don't have access to. Even if such locations exist, there's a chance (again, by RAW) that they might only allow for certain types of rebuilds—for example, the Gates of Dawn might only allow character rebuilds related to divine magic, fey, or redemption, while the Necrotic Cradle might rebuild you only into character classes related to necromancy—or that they might only be usable once per character. And on top of that, they only work within a narrow band of three levels (once again, this is the RAW), so if you're not in the correct level range, you're SOL.

So I don't know what you're talking about with this "would be available, except houserules" stuff—houserules would be required to make it available.

Again, not in Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/retraining).

[Sapreaver]

Is there a way to become like the silence from doctor who via the forgotten curse from oracle lol none of yall can kill be if you forget me as soon as you look away xD

[Great Velocity]

I think I'd take a level in Druid, take Vow of Poverty, and travel the world on foot. Very Zen.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is there a way to become like the silence from doctor who via the forgotten curse from oracle lol none of yall can kill be if you forget me as soon as you look away xDGreater bestow curse on yourself so everyone forgets you the moment they turn their eyes away? They'd probably get a Will save, but still.

[golentan]

Binder, from tome of magic. Alien Entities riding in my head giving commentary and advice on my actions isn't a whole lot different from what I've got going on now, at least now I'd get super cool at will powers from it, plus given the history of vestiges I feel like they probably qualify as kindred spirits to some degree.

I could take Improved Binding as my feat and be able to summon almost all of my favorite vestiges depending on what sort of mood I was in. Ignore Special Requirements as my second feat, and given that all the vestige seals are drawn in Tome of Magic, I can summon any vestige I qualify for.

[Coidzor]

I think I'd take a level in Druid, take Vow of Poverty, and travel the world on foot. Very Zen.

Even worse idea in this world than D&D. You'd be hard pressed to find clothing that you could wear with VoP.

[Jack_Simth]

Even worse idea in this world than D&D. You'd be hard pressed to find clothing that you could wear with VoP.
The actual wording on that is "You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties" - what "simple" means varies from culture to culture... but a T-shirt and jeans probably qualifies.

[Celestia]

I've been thinking about this, and the class that I would actually take is Warlock with Beguiling Influence as my first Invocation. I feel like it would be the most practical option. Feat would probably be Endurance because, again, I feel like that would be most practical in real life. Abilities: Str 9, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 8

[JBPuffin]

14 Wis, 13 Int, 11 Cha, 10 Con, 9 Dex, 8 Str - Now I have a +2! Hurray!

Cloistered Cleric w/ (Knowledge for free!), Community and Healing domains - my job is to provide team support, not go out and wreck things in melee.

Skills: Knowledge (History and Religion), Perform (Keyboard and Sing), Diplomacy, Listen, and Spot

Feats:
Human - Apprentice (Entertainer): I love me some music.
1st-level - Improved Initiative: I have a better chance of a chance of talking my way out of a situation or running the **** away.

As I'm a cleric, I don't actually get anything new except an extra spell slot. So...just keep on trucking, I guess.

[Troacctid]

Note that in 3.5, getting the +2 requires giving up your human bonus feat and bonus skill points.

[KillingAScarab]

Feat would probably be Endurance because, again, I feel like that would be most practical in real life.Fall asleep while wearing armor often, do you? :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

I've been thinking about this, and the class that I would actually take is Warlock with Beguiling Influence as my first Invocation. I feel like it would be the most practical option. Feat would probably be Endurance because, again, I feel like that would be most practical in real life. Abilities: Str 9, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 8


You gain a +4 bonus on the following checks and saves: Swim checks made to resist nonlethal damage, Constitution checks made to continue running, Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from a forced march, Constitution checks made to hold your breath, Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst, Fortitude saves made to avoid nonlethal damage from hot or cold environments, and Fortitude saves made to resist damage from suffocation. Also, you may sleep in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.

The only practical advantage I can see is if one is in something like colorguard or marching band where they force people to stand out in the sun in horrible wool outfits until they pass out from sun stroke or heat exhaustion for ****s and giggles.

Or if one wants to be a marathon runner or try to gain fame by swimming some long distance that people haven't been able to swim before. Granted, I'm pretty sure you could just do that by having the right stat allocations and class levels without spending a feat on it by around 6th level, which is where a Barbarian could climb Mt. Everest in a reasonable amount of time without getting frostbite or hypothermia, or something along those lines.

The majority of the things it helps with are obviated simply by living in a modern society.


The actual wording on that is "You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties" - what "simple" means varies from culture to culture... but a T-shirt and jeans probably qualifies.

Assuming it accounts for culture, certainly. But this is VoP we're talking here. Would you really want to take the risk? :smalltongue:

I suppose you could acquire some burlap sacks and a needle and thread in advance and have clothing prepared.

[Celestia]

The only practical advantage I can see is if one is in something like colorguard or marching band where they force people to stand out in the sun in horrible wool outfits until they pass out from sun stroke or heat exhaustion for ****s and giggles.

Or if one wants to be a marathon runner or try to gain fame by swimming some long distance that people haven't been able to swim before. Granted, I'm pretty sure you could just do that by having the right stat allocations and class levels without spending a feat on it by around 6th level, which is where a Barbarian could climb Mt. Everest in a reasonable amount of time without getting frostbite or hypothermia, or something along those lines.

The majority of the things it helps with are obviated simply by living in a modern society.
That +4 versus cold would come in real handy while living in Wisconsin.

[bekeleven]

Absolutely warlock.

- Social skills, stealth, vision/knowledge, and movement are all useful in everyday life
- Not shouting mumbo-jumbo and pointing my hands to do everything
- Eventually able to craft stuff anyway
- Qualify for many spicy prestige classes down the line
- Not reliant on finding spells/scrolls/other things that wouldn't exist IRL.

[Coidzor]

That +4 versus cold would come in real handy while living in Wisconsin.

If you're out of doors long enough to start taking nonlethal damage from the cold, either a person has made a mistake or something has gone very wrong indeed.

I mean, unless you just really want to shovel snow by hand and never stop to take a break.

[golentan]

That +4 versus cold would come in real handy while living in Wisconsin.

But would it help you not feel it or would it just help you not suffer drastic consequences for it? I put on a jacket long before the hypothetical GM would have me roll against frostbite...

[KillingAScarab]

The only practical advantage I can see is if one is in something like colorguard or marching band where they force people to stand out in the sun in horrible wool outfits until they pass out from sun stroke or heat exhaustion for ****s and giggles.
...
The majority of the things it helps with are obviated simply by living in a modern society.I'm leaning towards it being very handy for SCA, Renaissance Faires or other period reenactments.


That +4 versus cold would come in real handy while living in Wisconsin.The particular pact I chose for avowed would grant me a small value of resistance to cold without even using a clause. Summers would still be uncomfortable until I took the weatherproofing clause... unless I get creative with the ability to do at-will cold damage. I bet I couldn't make anything that tasted like ice cream, just like if ice cream had melted and then refrozen.


Absolutely warlock.
...
- Not shouting mumbo-jumbo and pointing my hands to do everythingWarlock invocations do have somatic components. Avowed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509440-Forrestfire-Studios-Playtest-The-Avowed-a-3pp-warlock-with-a-psychic-bent), however, currently does not; your clauses would have verbal components, but you can take a feat to no longer require them.

With all the advertising I'm doing, you would think I was selling my 14th level Patronage...

[Alcore]

Summoner

(12,9,13,13,10,8)
Human heritage goes to INT.


You probably notice my key ability score is eight. spell casting is out for me but I don't need it, can still summon, use my class abilities. I want a succubus eidolon, sure her charisma will suck but at least she can help make life interesting.

Skill points will all be used on knowledge skills; nature, the planes, arcana, and dungeoneering

[Coidzor]

Hmm. Seeing the Mythic version listed underneath Endure Elements reminds me, is there a way to deliberately become Mythic?

Is level 20 the level cap?


I'm leaning towards it being very handy for SCA, Renaissance Faires or other period reenactments.

Lots of frostbite and hypothermia and collapsing from exhaustion when following appropriate guidelines?


The particular pact I chose for avowed would grant me a small value of resistance to cold without even using a clause. Summers would still be uncomfortable until I took the weatherproofing clause... unless I get creative with the ability to do cold damage at will. I bet I couldn't make anything that tasted like ice cream, just like if ice cream had melted and then refrozen.

And then there's Endure Elements, which practically any fullcaster can cast, takes less than 6 seconds, and lasts all day and will have you covered unless you wanna go somewhere arctic.

Alaska, Colorado, Idaho, Minnesota, Montana, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Wyoming are the only U.S. states that offer something to actually be felt by someone with Endure Elements. Several of those, it'd only be limited locations within the state that could get that cold, and only on special occasions, too. So, basically, outside of places where a person has no business being anyway, you'd be pretty much golden.

[bekeleven]

Warlock invocations do have somatic components. Avowed, however, currently does not; your clauses would have verbal components, but you can take a feat to no longer require them.One component that wouldn't matter that much, given how warlock invocations are used. Most of the ones you'd use real-world (meaning not in combat) last all day or let you chain invisibility or whatnot, so who cares if you have to wave your hand every once in a while? The point is that it's a tangible improvement over standard casting (I'd also considered Beguiler).

Another advantage of warlocks: Nothing is stat-reliant.

And if we're including homebrew, then of course I'd change my answer.

[KillingAScarab]

And then there's Endure Elements, which practically any fullcaster can cast, takes less than 6 seconds, and lasts all day and will have you covered unless you wanna go somewhere arctic.

Alaska, Colorado, Idaho, Minnesota, Montana, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Wyoming are the only U.S. states that offer something to actually be felt by someone with Endure Elements. Several of those, it'd only be limited locations within the state that could get that cold, and only on special occasions, too. So, basically, outside of places where a person has no business being anyway, you'd be pretty much golden.Being places where a person has no business being is half the fun of adventuring.

In-line with warlock invocations granting an already existing spell effect for 24 hours and an additional benefit, weatherproofing makes it a little easier to take other people to those places and blow things up around them. :smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

Being places where a person has no business being is half the fun of adventuring.

In-line with warlock invocations granting an already existing spell effect for 24 hours and an additional benefit, weatherproofing makes it a little easier to take other people to those places and blow things up around them. :smallsmile:

You're probably not going to find monsters or treasure in the empty expanses of mountain/plateau where the coldest temperatures are recorded. Except there may be parts of Alaska where one might still be able to find some gold, I suppose. Probably not worth pursuing for anyone not already located in Alaska, though.

You're definitely not going to find those temperatures or real treasure at a Ren Faire or any of those other locations that were listed.

[digiman619]

You're definitely not going to find those temperatures or real treasure at a Ren Faire or any of those other locations that were listed.

Have you been fighting for an hour and a half in 40 lbs of armor in 100 degree weather? I have, and believe you me that it's really not fun.

[Coidzor]

Have you been fighting for an hour and a half in 40 lbs of armor in 100 degree weather? I have, and believe you me that it's really not fun.

100 degree weather is within the range that Endure Elements would help with.

We were also talking about extreme cold.

[Thaneus]

I'd also go with the several other guys saying Telepath 1... its just so good for this society we live in.
but for my stats... well from self assessment Str 10; Dex 6; Con 10; Int 16; Wis 8; Cha 16
but since the task is non elite array: 9;8;10;13;11;12

[KillingAScarab]

Have you been fighting for an hour and a half in 40 lbs of armor in 100 degree weather? I have, and believe you me that it's really not fun.

100 degree weather is within the range that Endure Elements would help with.

We were also talking about extreme cold.I think we are getting our conversations about the endurance feat mixed with our conversations about the endure elements spell. That's one bit of conflation I cannot endure.


I'd also go with the several other guys saying Telepath 1... its just so good for this society we live in.
but for my stats... well from self assessment Str 10; Dex 6; Con 10; Int 16; Wis 8; Cha 16
but since the task is non elite array: 9;8;10;13;11;12Well, the standard array is an option now. Or you could try to take Red Fel's approach. :smallamused:

Mmm, yeah, gonna go with no. Elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). You're right, I'm not a protagonist; I'm a recurring villain, and the DM made sure to stat me accordingly.

[GrayDeath]

I'm not super familiar with Pathfinder's retraining rules, but if they allow you to change your class, then you can do that. I know you can't in 3.5, though.

Well, the original Class Retraining list does of course not list Third party Classes, but I`d say the avowed fits in with the Sorcerers theme well enough to qualify, in which case I can retrain my first level to Avowed and stay there.

if you should rule differently I`ll just try my best at MixMatchin Sorcerer and Avowed and Dragon Disciple. Didn´t want to aim for Maximum TO Power anyway, and these three things give one a LOT.

[Pleh]

One component that wouldn't matter that much, given how warlock invocations are used. Most of the ones you'd use real-world (meaning not in combat) last all day or let you chain invisibility or whatnot, so who cares if you have to wave your hand every once in a while? The point is that it's a tangible improvement over standard casting (I'd also considered Beguiler).

Another advantage of warlocks: Nothing is stat-reliant.

And if we're including homebrew, then of course I'd change my answer.

Nah, can't include homebrew. That just makes the question trivial.

"Yeah, I totally found this class on D&D Wiki that gives me Perfect Immortality, Perfect Invincibility, Infinite Stats, Divine Rank 30, Infinite Spell Slots, and knowledge of all spells on all spell lists...

... at level 1.

... So what if I wrote it?"

[khadgar567]

Nah, can't include homebrew. That just makes the question trivial.

"Yeah, I totally found this class on D&D Wiki that gives me Perfect Immortality, Perfect Invincibility, Infinite Stats, Divine Rank 30, Infinite Spell Slots, and knowledge of all spells on all spell lists...

... at level 1.

... So what if I wrote it?"
I think using homebrew might be to cheesy for this treat and considering how nearly broken my homebrew i can guarantee using any amount of home brew will be to broken .

[KillingAScarab]

if you should rule differently I`ll just try my best at MixMatchin Sorcerer and Avowed and Dragon Disciple. Didn´t want to aim for Maximum TO Power anyway, and these three things give one a LOT.The Google document for Avowed: Heart and Soul (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rV7kaF9JL2gw9xQalkEnlEDL9WXtbsaCqNABm_pLIgc/edit?usp=sharing) is still in the works, but it also has rules in it for the aspirant archetype.

The aspirant’s physical appearance changes dramatically when he activates this ability, taking on characteristics similar to his pact partner.
So, a dragon bloodline sorcerer could become an avowed by making a patron pact with a dragon while also aspiring to be a dragon, gets into dragon disciple, then has two ways to gain dragon-like forms. You may need to change your last name to Lee once you become a Double Dragon. :smallamused:

[GrayDeath]

The Google document for Avowed: Heart and Soul (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rV7kaF9JL2gw9xQalkEnlEDL9WXtbsaCqNABm_pLIgc/edit?usp=sharing) is still in the works, but it also has rules in it for the aspirant archetype.

So, a dragon bloodline sorcerer could become an avowed by making a patron pact with a dragon while also aspiring to be a dragon, gets into dragon disciple, then has two ways to gain dragon-like forms. You may need to change your last name to Lee once you become a Double Dragon. :smallamused:


I REALLY wish there was a Like button. :) Made me laugh far too loud for work.
Sadly my Sorcerer has/had the Arcane Bloodline (as I was aiming for an extra magical Dragon, so sue me^^). And IF I start retraining, I`ll do it all the way.

Still, reread the Retraining Rules, and all it will cost me are below 200 gold and 14 days to be an Avowed.

So yes, gonna repost my new Class with full Stat spread soonish.
Did I mention how much I like the new `Lock?

[Celestia]

Okay, I just realized that I forgot that I'm a human and, therefore, get an extra feat. So, ignore my previous post. I'm taking Toughness and Troll-Blooded as my two feats. Hells yeah, regeneration!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Okay, I just realized that I forgot that I'm a human and, therefore, get an extra feat. So, ignore my previous post. I'm taking Toughness and Troll-Blooded as my two feats. Hells yeah, regeneration!Forgetting that you're human is only something that could happen on these forums...

[Vizzerdrix]

Okay, I just realized that I forgot that I'm a human and, therefore, get an extra feat. So, ignore my previous post. I'm taking Toughness and Troll-Blooded as my two feats. Hells yeah, regeneration!


Forgetting that you're human is only something that could happen on these forums...

Thats not a bah ah ah ah ah ahd idea. Would it couse ones wool to grow back faster I wonder?

[stanprollyright]

Okay, I just realized that I forgot that I'm a human and, therefore, get an extra feat. So, ignore my previous post. I'm taking Toughness and Troll-Blooded as my two feats. Hells yeah, regeneration!

I think you have to have literal trolls in your family tree for that to work...

[Troacctid]

[Insert "Yo Mama" Joke Here]

[Red Fel]

Nah, can't include homebrew. That just makes the question trivial.

Pity. I can think of a mythos class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?429524-quot-I-Refuse-No-Road-to-Power-quot-Mythic-3-5) that's absolutely perfect.

Just like me.

[A.A.King]

I would probably start with an level of Aristocrat, as befits my heritage, with the Mercantile Background feat and the Able Learner feat.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think you have to have literal trolls in your family tree for that to work...Given that we'd have magic, I think "magic" is a perfectly valid justification for how you have troll blood in your lineage.

[Celestia]

I think you have to have literal trolls in your family tree for that to work...
Dude, have you seen my grandfather? :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

I think we are getting our conversations about the endurance feat mixed with our conversations about the endure elements spell. That's one bit of conflation I cannot endure.

It's really not that hard to follow.

Endurance is a bad feat in game and a bad choice if you're taking feats for real-life practicality.

The spell Endure Elements is a prime example because the only attempts at justifying taking Endurance would be better served by just taking even a single level in a fullcasting class.

[Red Fel]

Given that we'd have magic, I think "magic" is a perfectly valid justification for how you have troll blood in your lineage.

"All right, kiddo, tell me. What do you know about time travel?"

[Coidzor]

I would probably start with an level of Aristocrat, as befits my heritage, with the Mercantile Background feat and the Able Learner feat.

How do you propose to make use of the Mercantile Background feat? I mean, other than spontaneously generating 300 gold pieces, which would be nice in and of itself, being somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K USD if one could get a good rate for it.

[A.A.King]

How do you propose to make use of the Mercantile Background feat? I mean, other than spontaneously generating 300 gold pieces, which would be nice in and of itself, being somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K USD if one could get a good rate for it.

The way I see it, there is a 150% difference between the price people are willing to pay when I sell it with regards to when someone else sells it. Let's just call it the iFactor.

[Coidzor]

The way I see it, there is a 150% difference between the price people are willing to pay when I sell it with regards to when someone else sells it. Let's just call it the iFactor.

I mean, where and how are you proposing to sell things? Well, actually, let's add "what do you envision yourself selling" for that matter.

[stanprollyright]

[Yo Mama's so ugly, people give her money in the underpass]

Inserted.


Given that we'd have magic, I think "magic" is a perfectly valid justification for how you have troll blood in your lineage.

"Magic" is the anti-justification. Now if you had a specific spell in mind, that would be something else.


Dude, have you seen my grandfather? :smalltongue:

Come to think of it, I did lose a bet to really ugly guy under a bridge once. The only other time I saw him was when he was taking my firstborn... Are you sure he's your biological grandfather?

[A.A.King]

I mean, where and how are you proposing to sell things? Well, actually, let's add "what do you envision yourself selling" for that matter.

... I believe you need a warrant for this kind of questioning...

It's just you know... stuff... I found... somewhere...

[Alcore]

... I believe you need a warrant for this kind of questioning...

It's just you know... stuff... I found... somewhere...

With your portrait I found your words hilariously ironic. It honestly felt like I was listening to belkar.



My feats (which I have not picked) would be negotiator and business savvy (which is the first deviation from full PF character). Knowing how to run a successful business seems like a vary good thing in today's time.

[bekeleven]

Nah, can't include homebrew. That just makes the question trivial.
The guy I was responding to was telling me that my choice was wrong, because he had a better class in a google doc. :smalltongue:

[thethird]

Mhkay!

I'm a psionic artificer level 2. For rules system I don't see why we can't go with 3.X so let's roll with that.

Stats wise I've got STR 8, DEX 10, CON 11, INT 15, WIS 12, CHA 9.

I've got flaws, I'm not perfect, I'm a non combatant, and most definetively vulnerable.
I've also got some traits, I love my mom (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/legacy-of-fire/finding-haleen) and I'm pragmatic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/pragmatic-activator), a lot.

Feat wise, I've got a hidden talent to create vegetable matter that lasts for an hour (unless someone finds a use for it first :smallwink:, like my diesel car), I'm a magically extraordinary artisan and I'm an able learner. That is hidden talent (minor creation), extraordinary artisan, magical artisan (extraordinary artisan) and able learner.

I've got 4+2(Int)+1(Human)+1(trait)+1(FC) 9 skill points per level, that go to use magic device (use psionic device is rolled into umd in pathfinder), spellcraft and the requeriments to eventually become a chameleon.

Most of my time is spent actually working on my current job, I enjoy it and I can only craft 8 hours a day. For crafting I'm mostly buying common salt (which is a valuable trade good in D&D and a crystal) to use it to create power stones. Within those power stones there are a lot of useful spells/powers.

Recently I've been getting some tattoos too... wonder where they came from.

[Starshade]

Artificer it tempting, but I'd take Druid. If I get to 3. level someday, the option to make items is there anyway, and there is much potential in the spells of the full caster classes. :)

[Coidzor]

... I believe you need a warrant for this kind of questioning...

It's just you know... stuff... I found... somewhere...

Perhaps I'm underestimating the potential profitability of person to person online sales, then.

Or overestimating the capital necessary to start up a business where one could benefit from the advantages of the feat.

[flamewolf393]

I totally want a level in succubus please!!

[Tiri]

I totally want a level in succubus please!!

You can't. Not if you're a human.

[flamewolf393]

You can't. Not if you're a human.

Savage species guide begs to differ.

[Tiri]

Savage species guide begs to differ.

You have to be a succubus to take levels in succubus.

[Jack_Simth]

Savage species guide begs to differ.
Savage Species, page 25, lower-right corner:
The only way to take a level of a monster class is to be that monster. A mind flayer cannot multiclass as a minotaur, nor can a human take levels as an astral deva.There's notes about ritual and Wish transformations elsewhere in the same book for when using an established character, but the limitation is right there in the book.

[danielxcutter]

You can't exactly take levels in succubus, but I think there was a ritual that could turn you into a half-fiend, and there's a web expansion that has guidelines for modifying the template ito a more accurate one depending on the fiendish parent. You have to be at least ECL 5, though.

[The_Iron_Lord]

I'd probably go Psion(Telepath) for my first five levels, then take all ten thrallherd levels at Level 6-15, then...I'm not sure. I want to take a full manifesting class, and get maybe some spellcasting too...any suggestions?

Also, using point buy of sorts from personal knowledge...

Str 12
Dex 8
Con 12
Int 17
Wis 9
Cha 14

[Vizzerdrix]

Ya know what. After the week Ive had at work, warlock is looking very good. Dropping swarms on my bosses would be soothing.

Anyone know if kinderu fish swarms are possable? Or something else just as unpleasent, maybe?

[Xaroth]

Hm...what would be the quickest path to being able to either become, or shapeshift into, a dragon? Aside from PF Dragon Disciple.

[Red Fel]

Hm...what would be the quickest path to being able to either become, or shapeshift into, a dragon? Aside from PF Dragon Disciple.

A Cleric of Bahamut with the Dragonborn subtype (so you'd have to take the Dragontouched feat, since you're starting as vanilla Human and not Silverbrow) can take the Initiate of Bahamut feat, which adds Aspect of the Platinum Dragon to your spell list as a 7th-level spell, meaning that you can turn into an Aspect of Bahamut (which is a Dragon) for rounds/level at Cleric 13.

... Probably not the quickest way, actually. But legitimately awesome.

[Elricaltovilla]

Hm...what would be the quickest path to being able to either become, or shapeshift into, a dragon? Aside from PF Dragon Disciple.

Form of the dragon I is a 6th level wizard/sorcerer spell in PF.

[LG Mindflayer]

I would take Warlock, Fiend.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hm...what would be the quickest path to being able to either become, or shapeshift into, a dragon? Aside from PF Dragon Disciple.Dragonwrought kobold with alter self. Since people are saying that you can use this to change your abilities but not your base race (because apparently magic can't do that), the earliest is likely level 7, with polymorph.

[Karmea]

You can become a pseudodragon with least dragonshape (sor/wiz 3, DrM) for rounds/lvl.

Archivist level 2, yay.

[dhasenan]

Taking a second level of (Pathfinder) Artificer.

Artificer can make magic items ignoring prerequisites. This includes the ability to cast spells of the appropriate level -- an Artificer can't cast spells.

It's a DC37 Craft check to substitute for a level 9 spell I don't know -- based on a reasonable interpretation that the check is based on the level at which a caster of the appropriate class would normally get access to that spell. It also takes over a hundred days and gobs of money (well, salt, really) to make the attempt, so I'd prefer to wait until I can certainly pass.

At level 6, I can get a +36 bonus to Craft. I also need a decent Spellcrafting check, but that's easier to attain.

As for meeting the CL prerequisite, well, I haven't found guidelines about the CL of a custom magic item. RAI is probably that the CL is at least one less than twice the level of the spell replicated, so I might have to wait until level 15.

To supply "gobs of money", I'll be using a similar set of buffs to improve the skill for my chosen Profession. Profession skills are a means of conjuring gold by sacrificing time. I'm not rolling in it at level 2, but when level 4 rolls around, I can get at least +14, which should supply about $35,000 per week.

[Red Fel]

I get the distinct impression that most of these answers boil down to "Artificer, because I want to be rich," "Tier 1 caster, because I want to be powerful and/or rich," and "Psion (Telepath), because I want to be influential and untraceable."

As a pragmatist, I completely get those ideas. You want to be comfortable, or powerful, or pass under the radar. But you're missing one point. Being a Tier 1 caster who dominates the world, or a master crafter making oodles of cash, or a telepath creating a vast web of unseen influence, is hard work. Yeah, it pays off, but how long does it take you to be able to sit back and just enjoy the benefits of your position?

From my perspective, I wouldn't take levels in an adventuring class to have to work. I already work. I can do that without superpowers. I take levels in an adventuring class to stop working, and start having fun. There's something to be said for base, immediate gratification, is my point. Like flying and turning invisible and shooting lasers.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I get the distinct impression that most of these answers boil down to "Artificer, because I want to be rich," "Tier 1 caster, because I want to be powerful and/or rich," and "Psion (Telepath), because I want to be influential and untraceable."

As a pragmatist, I completely get those ideas. You want to be comfortable, or powerful, or pass under the radar. But you're missing one point. Being a Tier 1 caster who dominates the world, or a master crafter making oodles of cash, or a telepath creating a vast web of unseen influence, is hard work. Yeah, it pays off, but how long does it take you to be able to sit back and just enjoy the benefits of your position?

From my perspective, I wouldn't take levels in an adventuring class to have to work. I already work. I can do that without superpowers. I take levels in an adventuring class to stop working, and start having fun. There's something to be said for base, immediate gratification, is my point. Like flying and turning invisible and shooting lasers.Totally agree with you here. Thing is, you also have to weigh the work the class requires you to do with the question "Is it worth it?" And considering that for under a week of prep-time and the work that goes into it, I can be epic level (instead of waiting for the next 19 years), I can ensure that I can neither die of natural causes, nor be killed, I'm fairly sure the work that comes with scribing a few scrolls and going on a safari hunting elephants to knock out for a day or so would be totally worth it.

The fun comes after. Who doesn't want to perform self-inserts of their favorite stories by actually inserting themselves into them via an epic spell, after all?

[GrayDeath]

Why do you think I went with Sorcerer first (and am going with Avowed now, just need to finish choosing Stat, Feat and Clause choices^^)

[Jasqua]

I'd probably be bad at making particularly good builds, so I'd just go for PF cleric with Animal/Healing domains. Would be good for my day-to-day life.
Statswise it'd probably be 9 STR, 10 DEX, 11 CON, 12 INT, 13 WIS, 8 CHA before adjustments. prolly throw the +2 in wis.

[Coidzor]

I get the distinct impression that most of these answers boil down to "Artificer, because I want to be rich," "Tier 1 caster, because I want to be powerful and/or rich," and "Psion (Telepath), because I want to be influential and untraceable."

As a pragmatist, I completely get those ideas. You want to be comfortable, or powerful, or pass under the radar. But you're missing one point. Being a Tier 1 caster who dominates the world, or a master crafter making oodles of cash, or a telepath creating a vast web of unseen influence, is hard work. Yeah, it pays off, but how long does it take you to be able to sit back and just enjoy the benefits of your position?

From my perspective, I wouldn't take levels in an adventuring class to have to work. I already work. I can do that without superpowers. I take levels in an adventuring class to stop working, and start having fun. There's something to be said for base, immediate gratification, is my point. Like flying and turning invisible and shooting lasers.

I guess I mostly just don't see a whole lot of the instant gratification available at level 1. Eldritch Blast is neat, but so are at-will cantrips and orisons. Flight is definitely neat, but as far as I recall, earliest real access is at 3rd, 5th, or 7th level.

You've definitely opened my eyes to considering an Eldritch Theurge build, though, I must admit, but I can't see anything compelling enough to turn my back on power to really improve my life and pursue extending my lifespan if not outright immortality.

I'm also just not really the type of personality that would be interested in playing superhero or super villain, especially at the point where a stray bullet could be that's all she wrote for me. So for fun that'd leave... extreme sports? Exploration? Seeing what I could do via social engineering or seducing my way through life?

Not gonna lie, being better able to get laid without resorting to date-rapey magic would be neat, but while sex is definitely a human drive I possess, it's not going to rule my thinking in a context like this.

[Red Fel]

I guess I mostly just don't see a whole lot of the instant gratification available at level 1. Eldritch Blast is neat, but so are at-will cantrips and orisons. Flight is definitely neat, but as far as I recall, earliest real access is at 3rd, 5th, or 7th level.

This is fair. Here's my thought.

My goal, as I said, is something I can use and enjoy. That means being able to use it at-will, when I want it. Does some of it come online sooner, some later? Yes. Can other classes reproduce those effects? Certainly. Is blasting totally groundbreaking and awesome? Of course not. Fun, but not overwhelmingly powerful.

But here's the thing. At level 1, I can do what I already do, but more easily, and also am never unarmed. As an Evil Mastermind, much of my power comes from how I use others, but being able to show that I'm not completely useless without minions is a big plus for me. Being able to do it infinitely, at will, is even better. Yes, cantrips and orisons are nice, but aside from some very low damage options (in PF), most of it is fairly cosmetic.

At higher level, these things become at-will options that add survival. All-day invisibility is incredible. Flight is liberating. Tactical teleportation, coupled with an illusionary placeholder, is incredible. And these are things I can do over and over again. Do they come online later? Yes. But they're at my fingertips whenever I need them, no preparation required. Also the lasers are still a thing.


You've definitely opened my eyes to considering an Eldritch Theurge build, though, I must admit, but I can't see anything compelling enough to turn my back on power to really improve my life and pursue extending my lifespan if not outright immortality.

That's fair. I'll be honest, I'm not sure I'm sold on immortality. Life is dull and repetitive enough already. Also, the longer you live as an immortal, the more likely you are to find yourself buried alive, or chained to a rock beneath the ocean, or adrift in space, or otherwise trapped and helpless. Just saying, I may eventually die, but if I'm invisible, it probably won't be because someone succeeded at killing me.


I'm also just not really the type of personality that would be interested in playing superhero or super villain, especially at the point where a stray bullet could be that's all she wrote for me.

... Playing?

[Alent]

This is fair. Here's my thought.

My goal, as I said, is something I can use and enjoy. That means being able to use it at-will, when I want it. Does some of it come online sooner, some later? Yes. Can other classes reproduce those effects? Certainly. Is blasting totally groundbreaking and awesome? Of course not. Fun, but not overwhelmingly powerful.

But here's the thing. At level 1, I can do what I already do, but more easily, and also am never unarmed. As an Evil Mastermind, much of my power comes from how I use others, but being able to show that I'm not completely useless without minions is a big plus for me. Being able to do it infinitely, at will, is even better. Yes, cantrips and orisons are nice, but aside from some very low damage options (in PF), most of it is fairly cosmetic.

Personally, I'm eyeballing things like at will Prestidigitation, mending, mage hand, and a number of other utility cantrips.

Riffing off your earlier thought, getting Wish in 16 years as a level 18 Sorc? Better retirement plan than the one I've got now (none). But I'm looking at the short term- without any schools to take Wizard levels at, Sorc giving me the spells I want like Water breathing, Alter Self, Shrink Item, etc? Totally worth it. Around the time that Fabricate and Permanency become available, I'd be rocking the Tinfoil hat as the ultimate tiny house, traveling the world for fun, building whatever I want.


... Playing?

Zing! (Biff) (Bap)

[Red Fel]

Personally, I'm eyeballing things like at will Prestidigitation, mending, mage hand, and a number of other utility cantrips.

Riffing off your earlier thought, getting Wish in 16 years as a level 18 Sorc? Better retirement plan than the one I've got now (none). But I'm looking at the short term- without any schools to take Wizard levels at, Sorc giving me the spells I want like Water breathing, Alter Self, Shrink Item, etc? Totally worth it. Around the time that Fabricate and Permanency become available, I'd be rocking the Tinfoil hat as the ultimate tiny house, traveling the world for fun, building whatever I want.

Now, see, this is logic behind which I can get. Spontaneous spellcasting is super useful, and loading out with lots of utility stuff - instead of hard-work world-breaking stuff - is just a comfortable way to make life easier.

Of course, if you don't take Eschew Materials, you're going to make things much harder than they have to be. Also, you need to stick to behind-closed-doors utility - flashing your Water Breathing around non-merpeople (sorry, Phelps) is going to draw a lot of unwanted attention.

That's the advantage of being an invisible supervillain. Once people catch on to your immortality, or your psychic friends network, or your new religion, or your factory of infinite crafting, you become a target. People want to own you, or crush you. Your assets are seized by governments, every camera is scanning for you, every law enforcement agency knows your face. But if you start as a target? If you are already the terrifying monster they think you are? It's liberating.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-suX6PszMiT8/VQVnsbB3q8I/AAAAAAAABl0/feZ8VfktlBc/s1600/6.jpg

[Barbarian Horde]

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/1/1b/Ur-Priest.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090330164951Marshal
I take my bonus score as a +2 to charisma. I take Motivate Charisma: Bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks. If I have skill points they all go into things such as bluff, diplomacy, Knowledge (religion), sense motive. Wedded to History [Initial] Feat

"Born in the distant past, you possess special insight or uncanny abilities that distinguish you from those for whom the time of your birth is at best nothing but legends and stories.

Benefit: Choose an ancient background from Apostle of the Forgotten, Elder of Legend, Golden Ager, Hand of Prophecy, Survivor, Throwback, or Wanderer. You gain the special ability associated with it." Dragon Magazine.

My elder I choose is the Hand of Prophecy
"Blessed and cursed by the arbiters of fate, by strange spirit the forces of time itself, or some other esoteric means, you are guided through the ages by a hand that pushes you ever forward. Whether reborn over and over again, memories returned at a special age or simply not allowed to age or die by the cruel whims of life, the Hand of Prophecy drifts through the ages until at last, destiny has been fulfilled."


Now to become an all inspiring force in war.

I shall lead a new era. Creating a dystopia in my wake. So at this point I think I will create a new belief. This belief I hope becomes infectious as religion. I will find the great men of this world and bring them under my all encompassing wings so that we may change everything. (Ehh villian monologue)
10 Wisdom
12 Int
11 Con
15 Charisma
9 Dexterity
8 Str

[Elricaltovilla]

Man, all I wanted was boosted INT rolls and some alchemy. Might as well trade in for some maneuvers too I guess. You guys have way too lofty goals.

[Alent]

Now, see, this is logic behind which I can get. Spontaneous spellcasting is super useful, and loading out with lots of utility stuff - instead of hard-work world-breaking stuff - is just a comfortable way to make life easier.

Of course, if you don't take Eschew Materials, you're going to make things much harder than they have to be.

Check Pathfinder Sorc level 1 again, good sir. I believe you will find "Eschew Materials" as a bonus feat where 3.5 sorc's familiar used to sit. :smallamused:


Also, you need to stick to behind-closed-doors utility - flashing your Water Breathing around non-merpeople (sorry, Phelps) is going to draw a lot of unwanted attention.

That's the advantage of being an invisible supervillain. Once people catch on to your immortality, or your psychic friends network, or your new religion, or your factory of infinite crafting, you become a target. People want to own you, or crush you. Your assets are seized by governments, every camera is scanning for you, every law enforcement agency knows your face. But if you start as a target? If you are already the terrifying monster they think you are? It's liberating.

See, I'm not after it to become famous, and I think you overrate how easily noticed someone keeping to himself and not making flashy displays of the arcane would be.

And, of course, if pressed to, a Sorc with two level 4~9 spell progressions, a Roc, and a fairly solid bardic music progression is in a pretty good place to be a supervillain. Try to imagine the difficulty of tracking down someone who can use bardic suggestions, make any set of clothes they want, and cast alter self on a whim? Seized assets? Between Hoard Gullet and Shrink Item, attempting to seizing those assets means finding me. Snagging the 3.5 version of Alter Self means that I can share spell the Roc into that Siberian Husky I've always wanted and no one will be the wiser. And when it comes time to up and go? I just fly off into the sunset on a giant bird, invisible, singing the Ballad of Serenity.

Essentially, I'm just as invisible as you are- I'm just invisible in plain sight.

[Barbarian Horde]

I mean magic is nice, but I could have absolute power by conquering. I may not end live long, but not before I inflict my will upon the world.

[Red Fel]

Check Pathfinder Sorc level 1 again, good sir. I believe you will find "Eschew Materials" as a bonus feat where 3.5 sorc's familiar used to sit. :smallamused:

Ahh, I didn't see that you picked your Sorc from the superior PF breed. Comment retracted.


See, I'm not after it to become famous, and I think you overrate how easily noticed someone keeping to himself and not making flashy displays of the arcane would be.

Oh, but that's just it - we live in the digital age. If you can do something unusual, you will be famous, whether you wish to be or not. Short of finding an isolated cavern in a mountain, you'll be encountering other people, and it only takes one curious trespasser with a cell phone to put you on the map.


And, of course, if pressed to, a Sorc with two level 4~9 spell progressions, a Roc, and a fairly solid bardic music progression is in a pretty good place to be a supervillain. Try to imagine the difficulty of tracking down someone who can use bardic suggestions, make any set of clothes they want, and cast alter self on a whim? Seized assets? Between Hoard Gullet and Shrink Item, attempting to seizing those assets means finding me. Snagging the 3.5 version of Alter Self means that I can share spell the Roc into that Siberian Husky I've always wanted and no one will be the wiser. And when it comes time to up and go? I just fly off into the sunset on a giant bird, invisible, singing the Ballad of Serenity.

Essentially, I'm just as invisible as you are- I'm just invisible in plain sight.

Fair enough. I still enjoy the literal version of invisible, but I do see your point.


I mean magic is nice, but I could have absolute power by conquering. I may not end live long, but not before I inflict my will upon the world.

But why do you need adventuring levels for that?

[Zanos]

Psion(Telepath) 1. I'll stop by for my truly infinite multicosmic power using psychic reformation and chirugery and other such shenanigans in 16 years, thanks.

In the meantime I will enjoy suppressing all my displays and abusing the hell out of psionic charm.

[Barbarian Horde]

Supernatural aid? The transition would so much easier.

I ended up swapping my feat out after doing some research

[Alent]

Oh, but that's just it - we live in the digital age. If you can do something unusual, you will be famous, whether you wish to be or not. Short of finding an isolated cavern in a mountain, you'll be encountering other people, and it only takes one curious trespasser with a cell phone to put you on the map.

But even that has a certain matter of chance to it- Just think of how many wonderful and real things get ignored on today's internet in favor of celebrities? You could blog and document your magical exploits and have a greater than 90% chance of being accused of photoshopping it.

Bardic suggesting the right people if somehow you do attract attention?

"Yeah, it was photoshop, real shame, too, thought we had something."

[GrayDeath]

Finalized Level 2 Version of me (with the crappy array provided here^^):


Strength 8
Dexterity 9
Constitution 10
Intelligence 13
Wisdom 11
Charisma 14 (Human Bonus from being a PF Character)

Human Avowed, Dragon Pact (able to sense Wealth, yay^^)
Shapes: Aether Breath, Aether Swarm*2
Clauses: Hidden Knowledge, Silver Tongue
Feats: L1: Silent Recitation, Noble Scion (of War) L2: Pactbound Guardian
Hitpoints: 13.

Still thinking abut the Skillpoint spread, since we dont need to model our existing skills with them ^^
14 (each 4+1Int+1Human+1 Fav Class) at Level 2, while not amazing, are more than OK.

[NecroDancer]

I'd probably take my first level in dread Necro, I'd also take the tomb-gained soul, basically I want to heal from almost any wounds.

[Jack_Simth]

I get the distinct impression that most of these answers boil down to "Artificer, because I want to be rich," "Tier 1 caster, because I want to be powerful and/or rich," and "Psion (Telepath), because I want to be influential and untraceable."

As a pragmatist, I completely get those ideas. You want to be comfortable, or powerful, or pass under the radar. But you're missing one point. Being a Tier 1 caster who dominates the world, or a master crafter making oodles of cash, or a telepath creating a vast web of unseen influence, is hard work. Yeah, it pays off, but how long does it take you to be able to sit back and just enjoy the benefits of your position?

From my perspective, I wouldn't take levels in an adventuring class to have to work. I already work. I can do that without superpowers. I take levels in an adventuring class to stop working, and start having fun. There's something to be said for base, immediate gratification, is my point. Like flying and turning invisible and shooting lasers.

Going with Oracle, here. Pathfinder, so the osirons are at-will. Thanks to the human FCB, I'd have 7 of them at this point, for an eventual total of 12... and there's only something like 14 Paizo Osirons in Pathfinder. If you actually go through the list, the most an oracle will need to cast any of those is a clear prism (the rest are either no M/F at all, or a DF... which Oracles ignore). I'd have two selectable first level spells known (plus CLW and Ill Omen), and there's a fair number of things on there that'd be useful in day-to-day living. Endure Elements, means you don't get cold (although the enviromental save bonus from Forsaken really covers most conditions quite well, so I probably wouldn't pick it....), while Dream Feast means never needing to worry about where I'll get my next meal (although not really something to be overly concerned about in the US, so again, probably picking something else).

Also... it's not really that much work.
Salt can be had for cheap (http://www.samsclub.com/sams/morton-plain-table-salt-25-lb-bag/160341.ip), and is a trade good (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/ue-more-gear-4#table-foods-spices) making it suitable for item crafting. $5.28 for 25 pounds of salt means each GP works out to 4.224 cents if I buy there. Crafting means each GP market value of an item costs me 2.112 cents. A 2,000 gp item (like a Handy Haversack) works out to two days of my labor and $42.24 (effective, I'd be making a lot of things eventually... and I save a bit on that due to Spark of Creation). Two days of work (and a few hours off my paycheck) to not need to worry much about carrying capacity? Worthwhile. The Spellcraft DC is just 5 + Caster level (so 14 for a Haversack), +5 for every missing requirement - When I can make a DC 19 Spellcraft check by taking ten, I can make one reliably. How soon do I get a +9 modifier to Spellcraft? Class skill, so I've got +5 at 2nd, +6 at 3rd... but one of the options for a Spirit Guide Oracle is to use Cha rather than Int on all Int-based skills (benefits of wisdom). With the standard array, I've got a 15 Charisma at 3rd. So that's a +8. A Headband of Alluring Charisma +2 is CL 8, and one requirement I can't make - 5 + 8 + 5 = 18. I can make it taking ten, over two weekends. That puts me at +9 for the Haversack. At 3rd level, with three weekends of work (two of which are reusable).

[KillingAScarab]

In this thread I learned quite a few people want to make the assumption that salt has the exact same value in two very different markets. Also, MaxiDuRarity seems set on becoming a poacher, I guess? D&D values cross-over with the real world in odd ways.

[Coidzor]

In this thread I learned quite a few people want to make the assumption that salt has the exact same value in two very different markets. Also, MaxiDuRarity seems set on becoming a poacher, I guess? D&D values cross-over with the real world in odd ways.

I think he wants to beat up Elephants for XP, leaving the bodies and the ivory to regain consciousness and wander off.

And after reading Harry Potter and the Natural 20 (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8096183/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Natural-20), who wouldn't want to craft magic items for a fraction of a fraction of the cost?

[dhasenan]

I get the distinct impression that most of these answers boil down to "Artificer, because I want to be rich," "Tier 1 caster, because I want to be powerful and/or rich," and "Psion (Telepath), because I want to be influential and untraceable."

I choose Artificer because crafting magic items is the closest I can get to making magic available to everyone.

I've been homeless. The prospect of having a whole dimension of my own, one that I can always return to, not subject to usurious rent, is quite appealing. And there are gobs of people who have it worse off than I ever did. They deserve to have a place to live.

I've had money problems. When I was homeless, I was working full time, and I was still making food choices based on calories per dollar. If everyone has access to basic magic -- if it's trivially easy to access a Wondrous Item of Create Food and Drink, of Cure Light Wounds, of Remove Disease -- then nobody else has to live like that.

One thing I'm quite interested in is the effects of easy creation of demiplanes. An unlimited use (or even 1/day with CL12) item of Mordekainen's Magnificent Mansion is great -- you can trivially remain fed and clothed and housed. Add on a Bag of Holding and you're in good shape. But a demiplane lets you settle down. You can increase the size and settle down with your entire extended family. My entire home town could move into a demiplane with six years of casting, assuming the whole town can only cast Genesis once per week, without changing the population density.

If that's widely available, it means that it's much harder to oppress people. They can just make a new world and leave.

Combine it with Create Greater Demiplane and you have cheap immortality. You can add the Timeless trait to your demiplane, eliminating aging entirely.

But, if I charge people for all these benefits, then only the richest will be able to access them. There won't be any improvement to pretty much anyone's life. It's just the status quo with a dash of magic for the people on top. That would be a tragedy.

My interest in gathering money (which doesn't take advantage of my Artificer levels and would be more effective with, say, Wizard, which gets Profession as a class skill) is to fund my crafting -- both the item creation cost and my cost of living while producing items.

My largest problem is that I don't have superlinear growth options for anything I do. (Maybe I could polymorph rocks into copies of myself...) I can make a Wondrous Item of Genesis once every four months (assuming I can't use CL shenanigans), during which time thirty million people will have been born. I can't keep up. Or if I do use polymorph to keep up, I need millions of myself.

[dhasenan]

In this thread I learned quite a few people want to make the assumption that salt has the exact same value in two very different markets.

D&D / Pathfinder values for goods are not based on markets. They aren't even by fiat. The value of a good is an intrinsic aspect of it, much like the alignment of a demon.

Or to put it another way: in Greyhawk, magic is satisfied if I create a Headband of Intellect using 7,200 pounds of salt. What's different about the salt here that makes it less useful for making magic items? If I owned a vast salt mine in Greyhawk, would I suddenly need to use more salt to make the same headband?