Crafting Question

[Xefas]

I have a rogue player who wants to craft his own poison via the Craft (Poisonmaking) skill. Now, we were working out everything when we came across a question that I couldn't answer, and that was not in the PHB. Can he craft the poison while they're actively adventuring? or even while in overland travel?

I could figure out about crafting weapons or armor, since you need a forge for that, or crafting alchemy as you need a fully stocked lab, but what about poison? What exactly goes into "making" a poison? Should I require he need one of those fancy 500gp alchemy labs to be able to make it?

[PsyBlade]

I'd say that he needs the right tools, and the right ingredients. If he didn't bring the right ingredients (I'd likely make sure I had the right tools always) then he'd have to search the area using an appropriate skill, and it'd be likely to be less potent than normal.

[Diggorian]

I'd think it would require the same facilities as alchemy because poison crafting is so similar.

In games I've found it best to wait until you fight something with natural poison then harvest it's glands for use until they go bad.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

crafting poison sounds like a craft(alchemy) to me, never heard of poisonmaking before...

[Shhalahr Windrider]

In games I've found it best to wait until you fight something with natural poison then harvest it's glands for use until they go bad.
Typically you still need to refine it and process it with preservatives if you want harvested poison to last more than a day.


crafting poison sounds like a craft(alchemy) to me, never heard of poisonmaking before...
Poison is not an alchemical substance. Therefore, alchemy is an inappropriate craft skill to apply it to.

The list of possible craft skills in the PHB is just a list of suggestions. If there's something that doesn't fit into any of those categories that can be crafted, you can easily figure out what category that item falls into and take ranks in that craft skill. To see what I'm talking about, check the SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/skillsAll.html#craft), as it omits the list of suggestions entirely.

In any case, Craft (poisonmaking) has been expanded upon outside of core with special rules reflecting the nature of the resources used in making poisons. You can find these rules in Book of Vile Darkness, Complete Adventurer, and Dragon #349 (November 2006). (I summarized these special rules in a thread from several months ago.)

Now, as to the original question, there are no rules about crafting items while on the go. However, a craft check typically represents at least a day of work. That generally means 8 hours. If you are traveling, we can assume you have less than 8 hours to work with. So I would suggest figuring out what fraction of time you had to work on the poison, making the check to find one day's progress, then multiplying it by that fraction.

For instance, say you marched for six hours on a particular day. After setting up camp, you had two hours to work with. Two is 1/4 of Eight. Now you make a daily progress check, yielding 16 gp worth of progress. Since you worked for only two hours however, you only made 1/4 * 16 = 4 gp worth of progress.

Note the above are totally non-RAW suggestions. Other DMs may disagree with that assessment.

[Citizen Joe]

I checked that thread, there's a fairly major error... craft checks weekly progress generate progress measured in SILVER pieces not gold.

Personally, I think it should be a feat, much like Brew Potion. So,
Feat: Brew Poison
Prerequisites: 5 ranks in knowledge skill associated with the creature you're trying to poison (Nature and Local usually cover most situations)

With appropriate materials and tools you can brew one dose of poison in a day. Raw materials cost half of poison cost. Note: Some materials are not readily available. Also, most civilized cultures require permits and licenses to make and use poisons.


Hmm... maybe also keep the Craft: Poisonmaking skill to allow people to design new poisons. So once you develop the poison with craftmaking and the Silver Piece weekly rate, you can then use Brew Poison to make that poison at a faster rate. I could also see a synergy bonus with Alchemy.

[Diggorian]

Typically you still need to refine it and process it with preservatives if you want harvested poison to last more than a day.

That's how we ruled it too. I just dabbed my weapons and used the poison on the next foe we found. I'd do the checks like how Windrider outlines it, save with sp amounts.

I dont think it warrants a feat. D20 Modern has Craft (chemical) for making poisons and other things. It's explained here (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Skills.php?Name=Craft%20(chemical)), but the D&D craft rules can cover it with poison prices listed in the DMG.

[Citizen Joe]

Well the problem is just how slow it is to create (anything valuable, not just poisons)... Take Drow sleep poison: Craft DC:15, cost: 75 gp. Assuming you add 10 to the difficulty and are set up so you can take 10 and still make it, you're looking at (25x25) SP progress per week or 62.5 gp per week... then another 2 days to get to 75 gp total progress. And that's a very specialized poisoner. So one dose of one of the cheapest poisons takes 9 days work.

Applying the typical magic creation feats, you could conceivably make 1000 gp worth of poison per day. That's why I suggest a feat. But I don't really agree with the ability to make ANY poison with just one feat with no rolls... that is a bit much. That's why I suggest the Craft: Poisonmaking to research the recipe for a specific poison (and poisoners would keep their formulae secret). Note that type of poisonmaking takes 1/3rd raw materials, but the feat takes 1/2.

[Arbitrarity]

That's why CAdv says it's measured in gp/week, not SP. It's not an error.

What you did is, you sad there's an error, so ignored the rule, then complained without that rule, things were dumb. :smallsigh:

[giblina]

Crafting of any kind is abysmally slow without the "fabricate" spell. So slow, in fact, that there's no good reason to ever take the skill yourself if you're looking for more expensive items.

It's fairly "realistic", but it impedes gameplay. House-ruling is a good workaround... DM might let you quest to find some magical artisan's tools that allow use of the fabricate spell X times per day with a specific skill (ie: Durn Greybeard's dwarven hammer of swordcrafting or whatever).

Something like that would allow you to spend points in a craft skill (you still need them when using fabricate), but you can manufacture items in a much more reasonable timeframe.

- Syll

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I checked that thread, there's a fairly major error... craft checks weekly progress generate progress measured in SILVER pieces not gold.
For most items. The rules for poisonmaking in Complete Adventurer specifically upgrade poisons to being based on gp per week. Hence my specification of "rather than silver pieces" in that statement. It's a special exception to the normal Crafting rules.

[Citizen Joe]

OK, I don't have (or want to buy) CAdv. All I can ask is if they specifically say that it is NOT silver pieces and that it IS an exception to crafting rules... if they just say gold pieces, it is very easy for it to have been a typo.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

OK, I don't have (or want to buy) CAdv. All I can ask is if they specifically say that it is NOT silver pieces and that it IS an exception to crafting rules... if they just say gold pieces, it is very easy for it to have been a typo.
The gold piece thing is also in Book of Vile Darkness and Dragon #349, so it's unlikely to be a typo.

[Jasdoif]

The description for alchemical metamagic components (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/metamagicComponents.htm#alchemicalMetamagicCompone nts) in UA's metamagic component variant also count progress as gold pieces instead of silver pieces.

I feel this is a trend for crafted items whose high cost is more a result of ingredients then labor.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I feel this is a trend for crafted items whose high cost is more a result of ingredients then labor.
More or less the idea there, I believe.