PAO question

[Eisfalken]

If I use PAO to duplicate the effects of polymorph, do I get to keep the duration factor from the base spell to make the polymorph effect "permanent" (presuming I can hit a DF 9)?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I don't think so.

Either you use the spell's direct text or you duplicate one of the lesser spells. I'm guessing you're trying to get a new form without borking your intelligence?

[Aharon]

Nevermind, Kelb is right.

[Eisfalken]

I don't think so.

Either you use the spell's direct text or you duplicate one of the lesser spells. I'm guessing you're trying to get a new form without borking your intelligence?

Yeah, was hoping RAW allowed a higher-level spell that "duplicates" a lesser one would let you keep the higher spell's duration there.

Is there any actual RAW about the duplicating issue? I have searched as hard as I can through the old Rules of the Game series, and Google searching, but I can't find anything that tells me how to parse this one correctly. I know the shadow-based spells that do similar things are definitely based on the spells they duplicate, but it's somewhat explicit there with Duration of "see text" and then saying it copies the spell duplicated in every way other than the percentage reduction on damage, hit points, etc.

PAO seems slightly different, in that it's base duration is variable but fixed and known, according to how wonky your transmutation actually is (i.e. rock to person doesn't last as long as person to person). It gives a long list of other transmutations it copies, but never specifically indicates you're using those spells' variables, just that it can duplicate their effects.

I feel like either I'm missing some very obscure rule language on parsing this thing, or that I might have found a very small loophole to exploit to get a "permanent" stat boost via PAO. I know I could shift to a creature with an even better Int anyway, but the idea is to aim for something that just shores up some bad stats at high levels, without having to delve into the utter crap-shoot of wish use.

It's cool if it's not feasible; I was just theorycrafting at work and it seemed like no real consensus had been reached on this duration thing, at least not that I could find much of. Figured I'd give it a poke.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I remember having a similar question about a spell that copies another spell and the ultimate answer I got was "unclear." It would be entirely up to your DM and ruling both for and against PAO's duration on a copies polymorph have equal merit.

[Kelb_Panthera]

without having to delve into the utter crap-shoot of wish use.

Stat boosting is one of the uses of wish on the explicit safe list, though. It's a bit pricey, granted, but it's not really questionable unless the DM is being a dink.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

One way I've found that bypasses the horrors of massively reducing your Int via polymorph any object is to use mind-swapping magic in conjunction with it. Get something with a super-low Int, like an insect or a particularly dumb animal -- something with an Int score that will be increased by the process you're going for (assuming you care about the critter at all). Mind-swap via mind switch, magic jar, or something similar. Now PAO your new body into something really intelligent, like a sarrukh, and PAO your old body into whatever you want it to be -- troll, giant, girallon, whatever. You gain the Int score of a sarrukh, while the creature in your old body gains the Int score of a girallon or whatever. Now swap back. You should keep your respective Int scores, while being able to inhabit your new bodies. Even with the Int score of a troll, the rabbit you used PAO on will still be getting a rather large buff out of the deal.