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View Full Version : Evaluate this series of end game encounters



MrFahrenheit
2017-01-01, 10:01 AM
Hi all,

My party is level 17 now, and there's a good chance they hit 18 next session (what can I say, I like a game that progresses relatively quick). They'll be going all the way to level 20, and so I've been planning out their final boss batte(s). Would appreciate any input/advice. Note my party is rather large at 8 players. The following is assuming no further character deaths...

Party as it stands:
Hill dwarf vengeance paladin 17 (staying single classes)
Wood elf death cleric 17 (ditto)
Human open hand monk 17 (same)
Lightfoot halfling assassin rogue 6/battlemaster fighter 11 (going rogue rest of the way)
Stout halfling arcane trickster rogue 12/hunter ranger 5 (rogue the rest)
Tiefling silver dragon blood sorc 14/undying light chain warlock 3 (sorc to finish)
Half elf lore bard 14/life cleric 1/rogue 2 (bard to finish)
Bugbear barbarian 11/thief rogue 3/battlemaster fighter 3 (barb to finish...but note that this player is the "death guy" of my campaign; regardless, he enjoys playing BSFs).

Whew.

Here's what I'm creating for the final encounters:

Combat 1 (this'll be an enemy party encounter, though there'll only be four enemies. Takes place in between two portcullis gates - very tight quarters):
Stout halfling divination wizard 20 with war caster and lucky feats. Can blast if necessary but prefers control.
Hill dwarf life cleric 20. Almost entirely pure support for team bad guy.
Half orc champion fighter 20. Wields a great axe; has the mobility and GWM feats.
Wood elf thief rogue 20. This guy is the real kicker here. He has a bag of devouring; team PC's members each have a bag of holding. Swipe'n'devour.

The purpose of combat one is to drain the party of material resources. They'll get a long rest before...

Combat 2 (takes place in the great hall of an old mansion. There are tables and chairs as obstacles, for instance, but a fair deal of space otherwise):
Adult blue dracolich
Adult green dracolich
Death tyrant (in lair)

This shouldn't be too terribly hard for the party, barring a massively unlucky initiative. However, they'll have to expend some amount of resources, and can only get a short rest before...

Combat 3 (takes place in the great hall also):
Pit fiend
Ice devil

This could bruise the party a bit, given the previous encounter. They should still be able to deal with it between two and five rounds, I'd guess. They'll have a couple rounds - may maybe ten, tops - before the next fight, as the BBEG they're going up against will deliver one of those epic final boss speeches.

Combat 4 (takes place in a throne room. More space than combat 1, but there are stairs to ascend to get in melee range of the BBEG):
Lich (in lair) (utilizing both the hand and eye of Vecna).

I'm just hoping no more than one or two party members are already unconscious at this point (though there shouldn't be any if the cleric and bard used the speech time to heal their buddies). I want there to be a good chance of TPK, but not a guarantee. It's the last fight, after all. If only two or three party members are still alive, and only one of them still conscious at the very end, then that's perfectly acceptable.

So...is this all too tough/easy/just right?

EDIT: the lich can simply will any room to switch with another in his mansion, hence why the final fight is in his throne room.

Fishyninja
2017-01-01, 10:50 AM
Hi all,

My party is level 17 now, and there's a good chance they hit 18 next session (what can I say, I like a game that progresses relatively quick). They'll be going all the way to level 20, and so I've been planning out their final boss batte(s). Would appreciate any input/advice. Note my party is rather large at 8 players. The following is assuming no further character deaths...

Party as it stands:
Hill dwarf vengeance paladin 17 (staying single classes)
Wood elf death cleric 17 (ditto)
Human open hand monk 17 (same)
Lightfoot halfling assassin rogue 6/battlemaster fighter 11 (going rogue rest of the way)
Stout halfling arcane trickster rogue 12/hunter ranger 5 (rogue the rest)
Tiefling silver dragon blood sorc 14/undying light chain warlock 3 (sorc to finish)
Half elf lore bard 14/life cleric 1/rogue 2 (bard to finish)
Bugbear barbarian 11/thief rogue 3/battlemaster fighter 3 (barb to finish...but note that this player is the "death guy" of my campaign; regardless, he enjoys playing BSFs).

Whew.

Here's what I'm creating for the final encounters:

Combat 1 (this'll be an enemy party encounter, though there'll only be four enemies. Takes place in between two portcullis gates - very tight quarters):
Stout halfling divination wizard 20 with war caster and lucky feats. Can blast if necessary but prefers control.
Hill dwarf life cleric 20. Almost entirely pure support for team bad guy.
Half orc champion fighter 20. Wields a great axe; has the mobility and GWM feats.
Wood elf thief rogue 20. This guy is the real kicker here. He has a bag of devouring; team PC's members each have a bag of holding. Swipe'n'devour.

The purpose of combat one is to drain the party of material resources. They'll get a long rest before...

Combat 2 (takes place in the great hall of an old mansion. There are tables and chairs as obstacles, for instance, but a fair deal of space otherwise):
Adult blue dracolich
Adult green dracolich
Death tyrant (in lair)

This shouldn't be too terribly hard for the party, barring a massively unlucky initiative. However, they'll have to expend some amount of resources, and can only get a short rest before...

Combat 3 (takes place in the great hall also):
Pit fiend
Ice devil

This could bruise the party a bit, given the previous encounter. They should still be able to deal with it between two and five rounds, I'd guess. They'll have a couple rounds - may maybe ten, tops - before the next fight, as the BBEG they're going up against will deliver one of those epic final boss speeches.

Combat 4 (takes place in a throne room. More space than combat 1, but there are stairs to ascend to get in melee range of the BBEG):
Lich (in lair) (utilizing both the hand and eye of Vecna).

I'm just hoping no more than one or two party members are already unconscious at this point (though there shouldn't be any if the cleric and bard used the speech time to heal their buddies). I want there to be a good chance of TPK, but not a guarantee. It's the last fight, after all. If only two or three party members are still alive, and only one of them still conscious at the very end, then that's perfectly acceptable.

So...is this all too tough/easy/just right?

EDIT: the lich can simply will any room to switch with another in his mansion, hence why the final fight is in his throne room.

*Wee's himself*

That is definitely a BBEG!. Erm from having a look at it, and watching some ther games with high level players I think this is a good set up. You are just slowly chipping at them whihc lulls them into false security!

Ashuan21
2017-01-01, 04:02 PM
Woah this is going to be something to remember in the days to come!!!!

Just one thing... Even if the challenge is probably already in the deadly/DMhatesyou range (which is perfect for me!!) I would avoid to leave the Lich alone... High level PCs have many end-combat resources which may ruin the atmosphere so, just to make sure, I would add something/someone able to annoy them.

What about a pair of level10 Abjuration Wizards (Focusing on Dispel/Counterspell to deal with the casters) and a fat guy such as an Iron Golem or a PolearmMaster Fighter (to keep the melee PCs at bay - especially the Paladin)?
You could present them as Cultists!!

This would clearly imply tuning of the other fights...

I'm afraid for the poor Lich :smallfrown:

MrFahrenheit
2017-01-01, 04:49 PM
Yeah...The thing is, while I know how one sided solo combats can be in 5e, I also *really* want to keep that lich alone. He's it. The last boss. That's why I was hoping the resource expenditure leading up to him makes the encounter viable.

Can't wait to see the look on my players' faces when the lich power word kills the first character to drop below 100 hp.

Gignere
2017-01-01, 04:53 PM
What about having a simulacrum as the first boss fight , then when the heroes think they won the real lich comes out to kickass.

Captain Panda
2017-01-01, 06:13 PM
Honestly, that Lich is probably going to drop before he gets a turn if he's up against 8 high level players solo, unless it requires several turns to get into melee range. Even if he does manage to get one turn, it seems super unlikely he'll get two. The action economy just works too hard against him. 135 hit points is nothing to evaporate for a group of eight level 18s.

MrFahrenheit
2017-01-01, 07:24 PM
Honestly, that Lich is probably going to drop before he gets a turn if he's up against 8 high level players solo, unless it requires several turns to get into melee range. Even if he does manage to get one turn, it seems super unlikely he'll get two. The action economy just works too hard against him. 135 hit points is nothing to evaporate for a group of eight level 18s.

Well I suppose that's why I was asking. I don't like the idea of a simulacarum (too cheesy), but what about throwing in one or more of these guys from this thread? http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?508330-Force-multiplier-monsters

Gignere
2017-01-01, 07:28 PM
Give the lich a suped up familiar or give him a number 2 every bad guy has a badass lieutenant.

Ashuan21
2017-01-01, 07:35 PM
Well I suppose that's why I was asking. I don't like the idea of a simulacarum (too cheesy), but what about throwing in one or more of these guys from this thread? http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?508330-Force-multiplier-monsters

Could work... I don't have in mind a clear idea of what these guys should look like but everything is well accepted as long as it is not too clearly planned to counteract some specific player dynamics... after all it's the last fight, they will like a true challenge but they will also want to shine somehow!!

Constructs always work fine anyway so if you have a clear idea of their role go for it, as said the Lich is too fragile to remain alone (terrain should obviously work for him so good point with the stair)