[3.5] Athach to Giant

[Thurbane]

I thought this was a bit out of the scope of the Q&A thread.

What combo of templates would you need to give an Athach the Giant type?

Something like Entropic + Half-Troll works, but I'm wondering if there is a combo that will do the same with less CR increase?

Cheers - T

[ShurikVch]

Dustform + Incarnate Construct ?

[Thurbane]

Dustform + Incarnate Construct ?

That would work, but I should have specified somehting that doesn't pretty much wipe out all base creature abilities.

[ShurikVch]

That would work, but I should have specified somehting that doesn't pretty much wipe out all base creature abilities.Is it really lose that much?
Bite attack, Poison, and Darkvision...
Or do you meant racial feats?

[Ludic]

I'm not one to rebuild the wheel here. But they had this same (mostly) discussion on minmax boards a few years ago.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6060.0

They came up with

(1) Incarnate Construct, which is LA-2, and requires the base race be a construct (and large to become Giant instead of Humanoid).
(2) Half-Troll (FF p92), which is LA+4.

As the only options for changing a type to Giant.

[Venger]

I'm not one to rebuild the wheel here. But they had this same (mostly) discussion on minmax boards a few years ago.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6060.0

They came up with


As the only options for changing a type to Giant.

Half-troll can't apply to aberrations, so you'd need to change to something else first.

[Thurbane]

Half-troll can't apply to aberrations, so you'd need to change to something else first.

I supposed I could always just DM fiat the reqs for Half-Troll and let it apply to the Athach.

[John Longarrow]

As silly as this may sound, why would you try to change one TO a giant?

[Thurbane]

As silly as this may sound, why would you try to change one TO a giant?

Mainly for fluff/story reasons. As much of a thought exercise as anything.

[Inevitability]

Half-Fey Half-Troll would increase CR by 3, which makes it cheaper than the entropic half-troll idea.

[Ludic]

Half-troll can't apply to aberrations, so you'd need to change to something else first.

That's 100% not a concern for my post. It's a link to another thread that poses an almost similar question. They didn't go past figuring out what templates actually change subtype to giant.

Although, I think they made some attempts at doing a low LA with Incarnate Construct, didn't care to read it again. It was interesting back when they posed it, but never really panned out into something viable (by their concerns).


Mainly for fluff/story reasons.

Follow up, will PCs actually encounter this creature for combat?

[ShurikVch]

Something like Entropic + Half-Troll works, but I'm wondering if there is a combo that will do the same with less CR increase?Unseelie Fey + Half-Troll + Proto-Creature (Bestiary of Krynn, Revised) = -1 CR

[Doctor Despair]

If you're gonna use fiat anyway, just add Half-Giant as a template instead of a race. Like, instead of the assumption being half human half giant, make it half giant half whatever you want. LA+1

[inuyasha]

I don't think it applies, but I think it's worth mentioning that if you're okay with Pathfinder material, the Athach is already a Humanoid (Giant) which is the Pathfinder version of the Giant type.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary2/athach.html

[John Longarrow]

Mainly for fluff/story reasons. As much of a thought exercise as anything.

If this is for a single creature, magic.
If this is for the entire race, that's just how they are on your world.

If you've got a story reason it or they need to be giants that's easy to work in. Just figure out WHY they need to be giant and have at it! That's the fun of being the DM, some of this stuff you can house rule in!

[DrMotives]

There's one PrC that changes type to giant as a capstone, but I can't recall if there is a type requirement to enter. Thrall of Kostchtchie.

[Thurbane]

Follow up, will PCs actually encounter this creature for combat?

Not sure at this point...maybe?


There's one PrC that changes type to giant as a capstone, but I can't recall if there is a type requirement to enter. Thrall of Kostchtchie.

Good suggestion, but I just looked it up, and unfortunately you only get the Giant type if you are of the Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid type to begin with.

...to be honest, I've kind of forgotten why I originally wanted the Giant type to begin with. Maybe I just wanted fast healing from Half-troll?

[Inevitability]

Good suggestion, but I just looked it up, and unfortunately you only get the Giant type if you are of the Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid type to begin with.

Have the athach take Human Heritage (blame it on a druid with Aberration Wildshape and peculiar tastes), then follow up with levels in Thrall of Kostschscheie.

[Thurbane]

On a side-note, anyone know any other templates for the Athach that are good on a melee brute, and/or give fast healing or regeneration?

[Venger]

On a side-note, anyone know any other templates for the Athach that are good on a melee brute, and/or give fast healing or regeneration?

Hard to go wrong with feral.

[Inevitability]

On a side-note, anyone know any other templates for the Athach that are good on a melee brute, and/or give fast healing or regeneration?

No templates that give regeneration, as far as I know, but spend some time in a Shriver (FCII, page 53) and you may get it.

[ShurikVch]

Monster of Legend is a measly CR +2, and may give you Fast Healing 5 and Regrow Limbs

[Thurbane]

Unfortunately neither Feral nor Monster of Legend can be applied to Aberrations.

Shriver is an... interesting... option. :smallbiggrin:

The good old torture device in FC2 that gives you a bunch of abilities and resistances if it doesn't kill you.

[ShurikVch]

Unfortunately neither Feral nor Monster of Legend can be applied to Aberrations.Shadow Creature template will switch type to Magical Beast, which is legal for Monster of Legend, and flat CR +1

[Thurbane]

I'm not sure where you're getting that from, but both versions of Shadow Creature I am looking at (MotP, LoM) only change type to Magical Beast is original type was Animal or Vermin?

Ah, OK, the 3.0 (MotP) version used to work that way.

Having said that, the template can give Fast Healing 2, so I could use it for that.

[ksbsnowowl]

I'd just go ahead and add half-troll straight to the Athach. That's what I did for a Norse/Viking-themed game several years ago. A Huge troll with a third arm sticking out of its chest is pretty much exactly the kind of troll represented in Norse folklore. The darn thing should be a giant to start with, anyway.

[Thurbane]

I'd just go ahead and add half-troll straight to the Athach. That's what I did for a Norse/Viking-themed game several years ago. A Huge troll with a third arm sticking out of its chest is pretty much exactly the kind of troll represented in Norse folklore. The darn thing should be a giant to start with, anyway.

Yep, I very much agree.

One of my players was pretty PO'd first time our group fought an Athach - he was a Dwarf, and was really annoyed he didn't get his dodge bonus to AC.