PDA

View Full Version : So first it goes lich, then its demilich



Traab
2017-01-01, 07:29 PM
Does that mean when the undead spellcaster no longer needs any physical anchor at all it becomes an apocalich? If not I call dibs on the name and idea for a new tier of terrifyingly powerful undead monsters. Just imagine trying to fight THAT! A spellcaster so powerful it no longer has a body, its just a coherent collection of evil will floating around being nearly unable to effect in any way. You might as well cast magic missile at the darkness because thats what you are fighting, a concept, not an actual targetable being. Vecna has wet dreams about becoming this powerful.

NecroDancer
2017-01-01, 08:49 PM
So it's basically a spellcaster that is now pure thought?

That actually sounds really cool now that I say it out loud.

RazorChain
2017-01-01, 09:48 PM
Does that mean when the undead spellcaster no longer needs any physical anchor at all it becomes an apocalich? If not I call dibs on the name and idea for a new tier of terrifyingly powerful undead monsters. Just imagine trying to fight THAT! A spellcaster so powerful it no longer has a body, its just a coherent collection of evil will floating around being nearly unable to effect in any way. You might as well cast magic missile at the darkness because thats what you are fighting, a concept, not an actual targetable being. Vecna has wet dreams about becoming this powerful.

Sorry you can't call dibs on it, Gurps did it couple of decades ago.

Esprit15
2017-01-01, 11:00 PM
So... kind of like a psion uncarnate, but undead and not psychic.

TheCountAlucard
2017-01-01, 11:45 PM
Frankly, gaining the Incorporeal subtype is not all that threatening. Casting Magic Missile at one actually isn't that bad an idea. It's far short of "giving Vecna wet dreams."

Coidzor
2017-01-01, 11:53 PM
I've have gone with demisemihemilich, myself. :smallamused:

Bad Wolf
2017-01-02, 02:37 AM
Demilich 2: Electric Boogalo.

TheCountAlucard
2017-01-02, 04:51 AM
I've have gone with demisemihemilich, myself.I like "semi-demi-mini-lich." :smalltongue:

Kane0
2017-01-02, 05:03 AM
Quasilich?

"it's like a lich, but it has no body. It's so magical it doesn't need one. No not like a living spell, this would eat those for breakfast!"

Inevitability
2017-01-02, 05:52 AM
In 5e, where demiliches are actually a step down from the original (as the result of liches failing to regularly feed their phylactery souls), it'd probably be hard to take that name serious. :smalltongue:

John Longarrow
2017-01-02, 06:44 AM
Lichling?

Hemi-Semi-Lich? Gets a V12 with massive torque?

Lapak
2017-01-02, 10:34 AM
I always enjoy a punnish name, but if it came up in a game for me I'd assume it had been tried... and failed for good reason.

"So you've completely severed your connection to the realms of normal space and time? Choose one:

A) You realize that the concerns which seemed so important a moment ago are of no consequence to a being of pure intellect. You spend the rest of eternity contemplating the ramifications of your new state.

B) Having left yourself nothing that anchors your identity, you begin to dissipate every time your focus wanders even slightly or you get distracted. Gradually, the energy-matrix that makes up your personality will dissolve into the Astral plane. Combat, being inherently distracting, greatly accelerates this process. You easily conquer several high-level adventuring parties that attempt to stop you, but each one erodes you a bit and the ones that finally, accidentally undo you never know how it is that they won.

C) As a being of pure magic, you find yourself subsumed into the will of the God of Magic. It's not a bad existence, this semi-godhead, but it doesn't have much to do with your previous pursuits."

etc.

Millstone85
2017-01-02, 01:04 PM
In 5e, where demiliches are actually a step down from the original (as the result of liches failing to regularly feed their phylactery souls), it'd probably be hard to take that name serious. :smalltongue:Not all 5e demiliches are a step down, though. Some are like a new form of phylactery that is secured on the Material while its owner travels the planes as a disembodied consciousness.

Tiktakkat
2017-01-02, 01:22 PM
No, it is called "Return to the Tomb of Horrors".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_the_Tomb_of_Horrors

And of course when you fail, you wind up as a vestige.

Beleriphon
2017-01-02, 03:46 PM
Lichling?

Hemi-Semi-Lich? Gets a V12 with massive torque?

Yeah, but what's its fuel economy? And can I get it with twin-turbo?

Yukitsu
2017-01-02, 04:35 PM
I think the next step is when the demilich begins creating thousands of replications of himself and you then have a demilich swarm.

Kami2awa
2017-01-02, 06:24 PM
I think this is actually a pretty cool idea, a lich who has cast off all physical form. Not sure how it would work mechanically without being just a powerful, incorporeal undead though.

Millstone85
2017-01-02, 08:24 PM
On a related note, reading about the wraith in the 5e MM made me think "Okay, that is D&D's version of the Nazgűl". But taking away from that impression is the fact that a wraith is way weaker than a lich.

Surely there has been some sort of lichwraith before?

Coidzor
2017-01-03, 12:20 AM
I think this is actually a pretty cool idea, a lich who has cast off all physical form. Not sure how it would work mechanically without being just a powerful, incorporeal undead though.

Well, in a D&D conception, I suppose they could make the switch over from Undead to Outsider or something like that.

I suppose one might also just treat them as less a statted up creature and more of a low-level divine force.

Bad Wolf
2017-01-03, 12:29 AM
Give them the incorporeal subtype, crank up turn Resistance, give them rebuke undead as a cleric of their HD, give them CHA to HP and saves, and give them a divine rank of zero, with all that entails that. Also a 10 point boost to all mental stats. And maybe a unique ability to possess undead? Make it a Fort save that bypasses their usual immunity, as it's closely linked to how they interact with negative energy. I think I'll roll up a template for it.

EDIT: actually, an immunity to Rebuke Undead might be warranted. Turn Undead still works.

John Longarrow
2017-01-03, 01:33 AM
I think this is actually a pretty cool idea, a lich who has cast off all physical form. Not sure how it would work mechanically without being just a powerful, incorporeal undead though.

So it pretty much gets the ghost template on top of the lich template?

Inevitability
2017-01-03, 04:46 AM
Surely there has been some sort of lichwraith before?

Powerful enough ghosts (in 3.5) can damage ability scores with a touch, are incorporeal, always rejuvenate after being destroyed, and if they used to be casters retain all spellcasting capacity.

Volthawk
2017-01-03, 06:01 AM
Quasilich?

"it's like a lich, but it has no body. It's so magical it doesn't need one. No not like a living spell, this would eat those for breakfast!"

I dunno, quasi- feels like it implies being lesser or not quite reaching the target - so in my mind a quasi-lich would be one of the various takes on the failed lich.

Frozen_Feet
2017-01-03, 07:38 AM
Just imagine trying to fight THAT! A spellcaster so powerful it no longer has a body, its just a coherent collection of evil will floating around being nearly unable to effect in any way.

... that's called a ghost. Or a spectre. Or a wraith. You get the idea. It's not exactly new concept, even if D&D already gave the traditional names to other undead.

. . .

Sauron.

Tiri
2017-01-03, 10:31 AM
... that's called a ghost. Or a spectre. Or a wraith. You get the idea. It's not exactly new concept, even if D&D already gave the traditional names to other undead.

. . .

Sauron.

Funnily enough, Sauron actually had a body in the books, I think, unlike his Eye form in the movies.

Unless you're referring to the giant mutant pterodactyl in X-Men, but I don't think you are.

Keltest
2017-01-03, 10:55 AM
Funnily enough, Sauron actually had a body in the books, I think, unlike his Eye form in the movies.

Unless you're referring to the giant mutant pterodactyl in X-Men, but I don't think you are.

You think correctly. I believe its also implied he had one in the movies, and given that I just marathoned them you think I would know better, but I've seen them so often I stop paying that much attention to them now in favor of snarking at them.

TheCountAlucard
2017-01-03, 11:05 AM
I believe its also implied he had one in the movies...Well, yeah, it was in the first ten minutes of Fellowship, that big gribbly thing what was swinging around that huge mace and obliterating entire waves of enemies until Isildur cut off his finger?


and given that I just marathoned them you think I would know better, but I've seen them so often I stop paying that much attention to them now in favor of snarking at them.In Return of the King, they'd initially had a scene where Aragorn fights Sauron himself, but the filmmakers realized it takes away from the significance of Frodo and Sam's struggle to have Vigo Mortensen slashing up the setting's antagonist, so they hastily pasted in a troll over Sauron.

Frozen_Feet
2017-01-03, 01:08 PM
Funnily enough, Sauron actually had a body in the books, I think, unlike his Eye form in the movies.

Part of the time, yes. Between incarnations he sneaked around as a ghost, and the Nazguls could do the same thing too. A goofy interpretation of this is seen in the Hobbit.

(Sauron was also reduced to a spectre when the Ring was destroyed, but for the same reason lost all of his powers.)

Darth Tom
2017-01-03, 01:25 PM
Sauron is a Maia in Tolkien mythology, which is basically a minor-god-spirit. Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast are also Maiar, as are Tom Bombadil (probably... (http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/bombadil.htm)) and Goldberry.

Sauron had a physical body, but it was destroyed along with Numenor at the end of the Second Age. This is where it gets interesting. Sauron had always been known as "the Deceiver", and often took an attractive form. However, once his body was destroyed, he was no longer able to hide his evil nature. He was only able to recreate a body at all because of the power of the Ring (which functioned a bit like a phylactery in that sense), and which he had fortunately left in Barad-Dur before surrendering to the Numenorean king. Also fortunately, said king wasn't the thorough type and decided to leave the immense evil fortress standing, apparently with its armies intact. Once he lost the Ring, he was no longer able to take physical form, except as the Eye.

Curiously, Gollum somewhat contradicts this. Someone, I forget who, mentions that the Ring was cut from his hand. Gollum replies, "yes, he has only four on the Black Hand, but it is enough". The Black Hand of Sauron is mentioned elsewhere as so hot that it destroyed Gil-Galad, and the reason the Ring burned Isildur with its heat.

So. Was Gollum pulled into the Shadow World, where Sauron presumably still had a form? It's possible. Ringlore suggests that the life of Ringbearers is stretched from the moment they take a Ring, and that the space is filled by the Shadow. This is how Men became Ringwraiths without having to die first. Curiously, Dwarves seem unaffected by the Shadow, but increasingly obsessed with gold (though I suspect this is a Tolkien nod to the Volsung saga where a greedy dwarf eventually turns into the dragon Fafnir). Gollum carried the Ring for a long time and could plausibly have already started to slip into the Shadow World. Indeed, up close Sauron may have been powerful enough to pull him through.

Poor Gollum.

GloatingSwine
2017-01-03, 01:53 PM
So. Was Gollum pulled into the Shadow World, where Sauron presumably still had a form? It's possible. Ringlore suggests that the life of Ringbearers is stretched from the moment they take a Ring, and that the space is filled by the Shadow. This is how Men became Ringwraiths without having to die first. Curiously, Dwarves seem unaffected by the Shadow, but increasingly obsessed with gold (though I suspect this is a Tolkien nod to the Volsung saga where a greedy dwarf eventually turns into the dragon Fafnir). Gollum carried the Ring for a long time and could plausibly have already started to slip into the Shadow World. Indeed, up close Sauron may have been powerful enough to pull him through.


The men who held the Nine had their lives extended because mortality was humanity's "thing", so that's how they were affected. Dwarves became obssessed with their gold, as well as insular and distrustful, because that was their thing.

Sauron's rings all worked on something inherent to the people they were for, hence his own always appealed to desires of control, because that was his thing.

Âmesang
2017-01-03, 02:08 PM
As far as I'm aware Sauron was always "in raport" with the Ring, so while it existed he still had access to his full suite of powers; he just didn't have access to the powers that the Ring itself granted (dominion over the other rings, and I believe the foundations of Barad-dűr were forged with its aid, and he controlled the Nazgűl by wearing their rings). So after the War against the Last Alliance Sauron was able to form a third body, though it would have taken time and a considerable portion of his native being (so he was diminishing slightly with each incarnation, not unlike Morgoth pouring the vast amount of his native being into the world itself and passing it onto his servants).

I believe that was why Sauron spent a great deal of time in the East, besides uniting foul men to his banner—he needed time and safety to effectively recuperate. Of course since his body was essentially his soul in physical form (not unlike D&D's outsiders), combined with his diminishing power and fall into darkness, he was unable to properly heal or regenerate grievous wounds (such as the finger Isildur cut from his hand after Sauron "died" from the wounds suffered during his fight against Gil-Galad and Elendil; though I can't recall if his spirit fled his physical raiment or if he merely "dissolved" into a spirit form; but to make another comparison, Morgoth was the only Vala to be permanently incarnated in the flesh and was thus the only one to truly fear "death").

One point towards Gollum being correct in his observation (since I believe Sauron tortured him personally) was that Sauron would have needed a palantír of his own in order to communicate with Saruman and Denethor; now I find it silly to imagine some orc climbing up Barad-dűr in order to hold the palantír in front of the "great eye," so I gather that "the eye" was a metaphor (not unlike "the white hand of Saruman"), symbolizing his ability to pierce the horizons with his sleepless gaze ("for dry, red eyes…). Honestly turning Sauron into a lighthouse just seemed really silly to me. :smalltongue:

But take all of this with a grain of salt—I haven't read The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-Earth, or The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien in a great many years (had to leave them behind when moving out and haven't gotten around to collecting them).


Back on topic, I recall WORLD OF GREYHAWK® tried something similar with the "Suel lich," a form of lich that took on a ghost-like form and would possess living vessels to work their dark magic (though said vessels would never last very long, and whilst unembodied they were quite vulnerable).

GloatingSwine
2017-01-03, 05:17 PM
As far as I'm aware Sauron was always "in raport" with the Ring, so while it existed he still had access to his full suite of powers; he just didn't have access to the powers that the Ring itself granted (dominion over the other rings, and I believe the foundations of Barad-dűr were forged with its aid, and he controlled the Nazgűl by wearing their rings).

Sauron didn't have all his power without the Ring, but it was a matter of degree not kind. He had all the same abilities, they just weren't as potent.

veti
2017-01-03, 06:46 PM
... that's called a ghost. Or a spectre. Or a wraith. You get the idea. It's not exactly new concept, even if D&D already gave the traditional names to other undead.

The Lich template has a level adjustment of +4, Ghost is +5. So even base, RAW ghosts are officially more powerful than liches.

Keltest
2017-01-03, 08:53 PM
The men who held the Nine had their lives extended because mortality was humanity's "thing", so that's how they were affected. Dwarves became obssessed with their gold, as well as insular and distrustful, because that was their thing.

Sauron's rings all worked on something inherent to the people they were for, hence his own always appealed to desires of control, because that was his thing.

I'm pretty sure that the life extension effect is just flat out one of the "powers" of the Rings of Power, not particular to the Nine. The Dwarves were simply resistant to their rings, though not immune, which is why they didn't turn into wraiths or turn invisible when they wore theirs.

TheCountAlucard
2017-01-03, 10:24 PM
The Lich template has a level adjustment of +4, Ghost is +5. So even base, RAW ghosts are officially more powerful than liches.Or at least less suited to being Player Characters.

Inevitability
2017-01-04, 02:05 AM
The Lich template has a level adjustment of +4, Ghost is +5. So even base, RAW ghosts are officially more powerful than liches.

1. LA is not a measure of power, it's a measure of 'does WotC think this is appropriate for player characters'. Comparing CR's instead, both lich and ghost have a +2 there.

2. Base, RAW ghosts (going by the sample characters) are around level 5-8, for a final CR no higher than 10. Liches basically have to be CR 11 already just to qualify for the template.

Kami2awa
2017-01-04, 03:01 AM
Maybe take this:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/colour-out-of-space

or this:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/gray-goo

Change types to make it undead (or outsider), and give it high-level spellcasting abilities.

oudeis
2017-01-04, 06:33 PM
Demiliches and Drow are both ludicrously over-powered DM cheats created solely to blindside players and should be thrown into the trash unused, with the sole exception of 5E Drow.

veti
2017-01-04, 07:28 PM
2. Base, RAW ghosts (going by the sample characters) are around level 5-8, for a final CR no higher than 10. Liches basically have to be CR 11 already just to qualify for the template.

That just says that "ghost" is a more versatile template, which can be applied to low-level subjects as well as high-level ones.

Take a 20th level wizard and apply the "ghost" template to them, and the result will be scarier than a demilich.

Inevitability
2017-01-05, 04:54 AM
That just says that "ghost" is a more versatile template, which can be applied to low-level subjects as well as high-level ones.

Take a 20th level wizard and apply the "ghost" template to them, and the result will be scarier than a demilich.

In 3.5? Definitely not. A demilich is always at least 21st-level there. I honestly don't see what the ghost has that the demilich wouldn't be able to get.

Traab
2017-01-05, 10:25 AM
Give them the incorporeal subtype, crank up turn Resistance, give them rebuke undead as a cleric of their HD, give them CHA to HP and saves, and give them a divine rank of zero, with all that entails that. Also a 10 point boost to all mental stats. And maybe a unique ability to possess undead? Make it a Fort save that bypasses their usual immunity, as it's closely linked to how they interact with negative energy. I think I'll roll up a template for it.

EDIT: actually, an immunity to Rebuke Undead might be warranted. Turn Undead still works.

A general possession ability wouldnt be a terrible idea, but I think it could work in an interesting way, anything of animal intelligence or lower is an instant possession which includes unintelligent undead, anything else does get a save attempt, but to make this ultramegahyperlich more dangerous than the soul devouring demilich I would imagine your chance of winning that roll would suck. Suddenly the lich now has a physical form, but it has your party members full skill set along with his own. Killing the party member would expel the lich but thats about it. Now you are down a party member, the lich is waiting for its next chance to possess someone, (its next turn in other words) and you only now realize how screwed you are.

Mordaedil
2017-01-12, 07:10 AM
So it pretty much gets the ghost template on top of the lich template?

I would have assumed nightshade instead, personally. Just pure negative energy.

arrowed
2017-01-12, 09:38 AM
Or a nilich. Who is basically a stack of self-casting spells that can be anywhere... and the only way to defeat this force is to destroy it's phylactery. Until then it just rains horror on the world with neat 8 hour rests to replenish it's energy. I think it could be a pretty cool villain, as long as you didn't house-rule it to have omniscience and made sure there was a reason it didn't just Meteor Swarm the party in their sleep. Otherwise it could be a brilliant faceless foe, seemingly uncatchable, mysterious, sowing havoc in subtle designs... :xykon: Mwa ha ha ha ha!

Segev
2017-01-12, 11:14 AM
What about going a different direction for your epic undead caster?

A demilich is just one skeletal bodypart, festooned with gems. What happens if you take a demilich of each kind of body part and link them back together into a complete skeleton?

Or maybe this is the evolution of that uberlich: as it prepares for this transformation, it seeks out the phylacteries of other demiliches and begins to merge them into its own. By the time its own last vestige of a body part is lost, it has bound the other demiliches' life forces into its own phylactery and built a new lich-like body out of all of their parts. Directed by the uberlich's unholy will, each of the subordinate demiliches are enslaved but able to act independently (as if held by control undead or the cleric's command undead in the uberlich's thrall).

Traab
2017-01-12, 04:32 PM
What about going a different direction for your epic undead caster?

A demilich is just one skeletal bodypart, festooned with gems. What happens if you take a demilich of each kind of body part and link them back together into a complete skeleton?

Or maybe this is the evolution of that uberlich: as it prepares for this transformation, it seeks out the phylacteries of other demiliches and begins to merge them into its own. By the time its own last vestige of a body part is lost, it has bound the other demiliches' life forces into its own phylactery and built a new lich-like body out of all of their parts. Directed by the uberlich's unholy will, each of the subordinate demiliches are enslaved but able to act independently (as if held by control undead or the cleric's command undead in the uberlich's thrall).

Omnomnomnilich. And I like that idea for another path of evolution of the lich. Maybe give it a sort of boost for every lich it eats. Obviously not a direct addition of stat points as that would get absurd awfully quickly, but the more liches and fellow demiliches it defeats, controls or consumes, the higher its abilities and stats go, the more dangerous it becomes. It has greater and greater saves versus spells, natural armor, damage resistance, turn resistance, etc etc etc.

Or not, because the idea of basically fighting say, 5 demiliches at once that work in concert is terrifying enough by itself. It would require some significant tuning if we go by the whole attempt to devour soul, if it fails the target takes 2 negative levels, Well, even if the party survives 5 full attempts to devour their souls and insta kill them, they now have 10 negative levels each, which I would imagine might be a bit inconvenient. Im honestly unsure of HOW badly that would effect an epic level encounter, but a -10 to all rolls would have to suck at least a bit.

Segev
2017-01-13, 11:21 AM
Or not, because the idea of basically fighting say, 5 demiliches at once that work in concert is terrifying enough by itself. It would require some significant tuning if we go by the whole attempt to devour soul, if it fails the target takes 2 negative levels, Well, even if the party survives 5 full attempts to devour their souls and insta kill them, they now have 10 negative levels each, which I would imagine might be a bit inconvenient. Im honestly unsure of HOW badly that would effect an epic level encounter, but a -10 to all rolls would have to suck at least a bit.

Yeah, I think the terror of facing 5+ liches all working in concert towards the same goal would be more than enough. Maybe give the combined omnilich (I like that term) ability to share its soul-feeding (so if the right hand is flush but the rib cage is not getting many souls, they can shuffle them around), and also possibly share spell access.

Each demilich in the omnilich having a full suite of actions is already horrifying compared to facing a single lich or demilich.

arrowed
2017-01-13, 12:18 PM
I'm not sure I agree with the name onmnilich, omni- tends to imply all, e.g. omniscient (all knowing) or omnipotent (all powerful). Multilch might be more appropriate.
But at the same time, how would the hypothetical compound-lich be different to fighting x demiliches who all stayed in the same space? What justifies it being an individual monster?

Segev
2017-01-13, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure I agree with the name onmnilich, omni- tends to imply all, e.g. omniscient (all knowing) or omnipotent (all powerful). Multilch might be more appropriate.
But at the same time, how would the hypothetical compound-lich be different to fighting x demiliches who all stayed in the same space? What justifies it being an individual monster?

I know that "Omni-" is not quite accurate, but it sounds better than "multilich" to me. :smallamused:

As to what makes it "different," you would probably recombine all its hp, rather than giving it "hit locations" or the like, so it's back to being just one monster (with lots of actions). But narratively, what makes it different, to me, is that there is an over-will that guides and controls the whole group. The lich who forcibly subsumed the others is completely in charge; the others are minions.

You COULD achieve a similar effect by simply having the overlich use magics that compel the other demiliches' obedience, and have them be physically distinct demiliches that are tied together but technically able to be separated. That would also work, and require less "okay, what are the stats of this combined multilich monster?" consideration.

Rockphed
2017-01-13, 12:47 PM
I know that "Omni-" is not quite accurate, but it sounds better than "multilich" to me. :smallamused:

As to what makes it "different," you would probably recombine all its hp, rather than giving it "hit locations" or the like, so it's back to being just one monster (with lots of actions). But narratively, what makes it different, to me, is that there is an over-will that guides and controls the whole group. The lich who forcibly subsumed the others is completely in charge; the others are minions.

You COULD achieve a similar effect by simply having the overlich use magics that compel the other demiliches' obedience, and have them be physically distinct demiliches that are tied together but technically able to be separated. That would also work, and require less "okay, what are the stats of this combined multilich monster?" consideration.

Well, as the Omnomnomnilich takes damage it loses control over its component parts. So after a couple rounds it is forced to release some of its minions (who it could hunt down and re-subsume if it wasn't dealing with these pesky adventurers). When it does, roll d%. On 00, the released part keeps fighting the attackers. On 01 - 89, released part flees. On 90 - 99, released part turns on the Omnomnomnilich for 3d4 rounds before fleeing.

oudeis
2017-01-13, 03:17 PM
What's the point of trying to create a new sub/super-type of Lich? There's no need. If you want a really powerful Lich, start with an extremely powerful arcane caster, complete with loads of self-created magic items, and port him over. Insubstantiality, possession, and other such powers are not part of the portfolio and you should be looking at incorporeal undead for your purpose.

However, if you wanted to postulate a scenario where a mortal was attacked by a possessing spirit during the final ritual of the Lich transformation, that's another story altogether... :wink:

Segev
2017-01-13, 06:17 PM
What's the point of trying to create a new sub/super-type of Lich? There's no need.

I think the motivation is less "need" and more "extrapolative curiosity."

The Glyphstone
2017-01-13, 06:41 PM
Why stop at 5 demiliches? Have 206 of them working together, collectively pretending to be an ordinary human skeleton.

Traab
2017-01-13, 09:50 PM
Why stop at 5 demiliches? Have 206 of them working together, collectively pretending to be an ordinary human skeleton.

I would imagine that makes the battle round a little unwieldy.
/2 hours pass "Ok guys, thats the left hand up to the elbow done with its attack rolls, time for the right hand!" Plus, you know, instant victory to the enemy. Also, you by law would have to make some sort of borg reference at this point which is totally out of genre and therefore not allowed. Thus paradox, thus the campaign goes kablooey. /nod

If not combining liches like that, then the idea of consuming other liches/demiliches is an interesting one. It would make for a seriously badass enemy, and an easy epic backstory to create it fluff wise. Basically give it a benefit of some sort for every lich it has eaten that makes it even stronger. Stuff like, straight up stats boosts such as a +1 to every stat, save, damage, whatever it has, maybe access to whatever spell list the lich it ate had. Which could open it to having epic level spells from pretty much every spell book out there. Maybe make it some sort of lich god, it has divine ranks, no longer needs a phylactery because its so damn powerful it can reform at will if destroyed. I dont know if that already exists though.

Skorj
2017-01-14, 12:19 PM
Why stop at 5 demiliches? Have 206 of them working together, collectively pretending to be an ordinary human skeleton.

It's obviously 5 demiliches that combine to form Voltron-lich. Bonus points for using lion bones.