3.5e I need to find a base class for my Thayan Knight

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Hello guys, my DM want to end this game and I am making a LE Thayan Knight that will be my friend Red Wizard's knight.

I want to be a super tank with heavy armor, tower shield and a longsword.

I am looking for a base class and want to have an item familiar(the sword or the shield).

we will start at level 4.

I am looking for a class that will help me defend my Red Wizard.

I can use 3.5e books.

[Troacctid]

So a Crusader, then.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

So a Crusader, then.

I forgot to write that I am a nood. I don't really know what the Crusader is.
where can I find it?

edit:
found it, I can't really pray with the story I am building for my PC.

[Ludic]

This does not happen often at all. Thayen Knight is such an underwhelming PRC it's not funny.

Seriously, dip one level of it, just one. For Zulkir's favor. You automatically fail saving throws for mind altering effects from red wizards.

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

You want this. because I'm about to tell you to do something cray-cray of the cray-ness.

Build around a Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker. With Zulkir's Favor from the one level dip in Thayan Knight the Red Wizard can knock you out of Frenzy with no problem.

This is possibly the only time you'll ever have a party ever let you play a frenzied berserker.

You do lose all the big armor, ultra shield idea. But it's too good an opportunity to pass up to suggest Frenzied Berserker.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

This does not happen often at all. Thayen Knight is such an underwhelming PRC it's not funny.

Seriously, dip one level of it, just one. For Zulkir's favor. You automatically fail saving throws for mind altering effects from red wizards.

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

You want this. because I'm about to tell you to do something cray-cray of the cray-ness.

Build around a Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker. With Zulkir's Favor from the one level dip in Thayan Knight the Red Wizard can knock you out of Frenzy with no problem.

This is possibly the only time you'll ever have a party ever let you play a frenzied berserker.

You do lose all the big armor, ultra shield idea. But it's too good an opportunity to pass up to suggest Frenzied Berserker.

but I want to be LE, I can't be a barbarian.

this is an option, do you know about a why for my to get barbarian and still be L?

[Ludic]

but I want to be LE, I can't be a barbarian.

this is an option, do you know about a why for my to get barbarian and still be L?

All you lose is rage by becoming lawful. You don't' lose anything from berserker by becoming lawful. And to be fair, both will likely only be a dip in most build. Barb for a pounce with Unearthed Arcana, and FB for two levels for Supreme Cleave (five foot step when cleaving, yes please), which is really the selling point until you want to grit 4 levels for deathless frenzy.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

All you lose is rage by becoming lawful. You don't' lose anything from berserker by becoming lawful. And to be fair, both will likely only be a dip in most build. Barb for a pounce with Unearthed Arcana, and FB for two levels for Supreme Cleave (five foot step when cleaving, yes please), which is really the selling point until you want to grit 4 levels for deathless frenzy.

we do play with xp penalties so I do need to see how I am building this one.

[Kelb_Panthera]

All you lose is rage by becoming lawful. You don't' lose anything from berserker by becoming lawful. And to be fair, both will likely only be a dip in most build. Barb for a pounce with Unearthed Arcana, and FB for two levels for Supreme Cleave (five foot step when cleaving, yes please), which is really the selling point until you want to grit 4 levels for deathless frenzy.

3 for deathless frenzy and you're forgetting about the PA improvements. Also, going lawful means not qualifying for FB in the first place. The DM may rule that if you go lawful after FB you lose its class features because of the editing mistake in CW that says this is the rule.

And XP penalties don't apply to prestige classes. Says so in the DMG.

[Troacctid]

Crusader is from Tome of Battle and it's the only base class that really meets all of your criteria.

You can get rage without alignment restrictions or Barbarian levels by taking the Broodguard template from Savage Species, page 141. Only humans can have the template, but it does not impose a level adjustment. The rage ability is only 1/day, but the Extra Rage feat can fix that.

[Ludic]

The DM may rule that if you go lawful after FB you lose its class features because of the editing mistake in CW that says this is the rule.

If he does that, then you should retain Supreme Cleave and Die Hard, just like the Barb retains everything not related to rage.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If he does that, then you should retain Supreme Cleave, just like the Barb retains everything not related to rage.

Nope. That stupid side-bar says they lose -all- of the features of the class if they stop qualifying.

[Ludic]

Nope. That stupid side-bar says they lose -all- of the features of the class if they stop qualifying.

See now you have me looking for errata or instances in other books that say otherwise.

I do not like you right now . . .

[Kelb_Panthera]

See now you have me looking for errata or instances in other books that say otherwise.

I do not like you right now . . .

Let me save you some time.

It's an editing mistake. In 3.0 the rule was printed in the DMG. it was dropped in the 3.5 update but wires got crossed and a reminder of the no longer extant rule was printed in both complete warrior and complete arcane. If you didn't know this, you'd take it as a new rule, which it's not. Ignore it.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Let me save you some time.

It's an editing mistake. In 3.0 the rule was printed in the DMG. it was dropped in the 3.5 update but wires got crossed and a reminder of the no longer extant rule was printed in both complete warrior and complete arcane. If you didn't know this, you'd take it as a new rule, which it's not. Ignore it.


See now you have me looking for errata or instances in other books that say otherwise.

I do not like you right now . . .


Crusader is from Tome of Battle and it's the only base class that really meets all of your criteria.

You can get rage without alignment restrictions or Barbarian levels by taking the Broodguard template from Savage Species, page 141. Only humans can have the template, but it does not impose a level adjustment. The rage ability is only 1/day, but the Extra Rage feat can fix that.

so no to barbarian\franzy. I will stay LE

I still need a why to become to walking tank.

[Troacctid]

I still need a why to become to walking tank.
That's Crusader.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

That's Crusader.

I have one problem with the Crusader.

You ready maneuvers by praying for 5 minutes.

My Thayan Knight will not pray.
He/She will make sure that the Red Wizard is safe all the time so He/She will not have any time to pray or to believe in anything.


this class look very nice but I dont want my Thayan Knight to pray, this will be a problem.

[Tiri]

My Thayan Knight will not pray.
He/She will make sure that the Red Wizard is safe all the time so He/She will not have any time to pray or to believe in anything.

this class look very nice but I dont want my Thayan Knight to pray, this will be a problem.

Worship your Red Wizard and pray with your eyes open while near them. That should solve your problem.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

That's Crusader.


Worship your Red Wizard and pray with your eyes open while near them. That should solve your problem.

Nice idea, tnx.

do you know how do I play a Crusader?

[Gellhorn]

If Tiri's idea isn't good enough for you, you can spend a feat on adaptive style to do it in 6 seconds

[BloodSnake'sCha]

If Tiri's idea isn't good enough for you, you can spend a feat on adaptive style to do it in 6 seconds

please add a source or an explanation, I am new.

[Gellhorn]

Adaptive style is a feat from Tome of Battle which allows you to change your readied manoeuvres as a full round action. Normally for a crusader you'd either spend 5 minutes out of combat or rely on the in combat random regen thing they have, but adaptive style was a suggestion for if you didn't want to spend 5 minutes each day praying/staring at the Red Wizard :P

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Adaptive style is a feat from Tome of Battle which allows you to change your readied manoeuvres as a full round action. Normally for a crusader you'd either spend 5 minutes out of combat or rely on the in combat random regen thing they have, but adaptive style was a suggestion for if you didn't want to spend 5 minutes each day praying/staring at the Red Wizard :P

thank you :)

but this is only for changing the manoeuvres this will not help me if I want to ready them.

I will try to ask the GM but I can't get to him now.


I will open a new one because I need to know how to play a Crusader.

[Faily]

I did a Thayan Knight myself once with a similar fluff (no Red Wizards in the setting, but we were all Vecna followers, so it was re-fluffed to being a Knight of Vecna).

I used Knight (PHBII) as the base-class with one level of Fighter for the bonus feat + Tower Shield Proficiency, and was setting up to take a couple of levels of Blackguard in addition to Thayan Knight. It was a fun concept to play because Knight have some abilities that synergize alright with Thayan Knight, and you get d12 HD to beef you up some more, as well as a very strong Will save compared to many other "fighter"-types.

Not optimized, sure, but it was fun to play. We put the campaign on hiatus after we were all turned into undeads (my Knight got turned into a Mummy, so yeah... that Charisma and Strength is scary).

(Also allowed me to check off Knight of my list of base-classes to play :smallbiggrin: )

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I did a Thayan Knight myself once with a similar fluff (no Red Wizards in the setting, but we were all Vecna followers, so it was re-fluffed to being a Knight of Vecna).

I used Knight (PHBII) as the base-class with one level of Fighter for the bonus feat + Tower Shield Proficiency, and was setting up to take a couple of levels of Blackguard in addition to Thayan Knight. It was a fun concept to play because Knight have some abilities that synergize alright with Thayan Knight, and you get d12 HD to beef you up some more, as well as a very strong Will save compared to many other "fighter"-types.

Not optimized, sure, but it was fun to play. We put the campaign on hiatus after we were all turned into undeads (my Knight got turned into a Mummy, so yeah... that Charisma and Strength is scary).

(Also allowed me to check off Knight of my list of base-classes to play :smallbiggrin: )

I am will be the only evil and I don't like the knight code, I want to be able to kill by surprise the ones that will try to approach my Red Wizard.