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Swooper
2007-07-18, 03:48 AM
If all goes as planned*, I will be starting a campaign in a homebrewed world in about September-October. I've got the world mostly ready, but I haven't given much thought to the campaign itself. However, yesterday I got an idea. A very vague and clichéed idea, but an idea nonetheless. In order to make the most of it, get some unique angles on it and so on, I thought I'd ask you guys for opinion, ideas and advice on it. So here's the thing:

Thousands of years ago, before the elves rose to power, before man even knew fire, the dragons ruled the world. At some point in the distant past, they trapped an ancient evil deep, deep underground. To bind it in place and make sure it wouldn't escape, they placed obelisk-like runestones, now called Dragonstones, at certain key spots around the world. Now, the BBEG is planning to set the ancient evil free by smashing the Dragonstones. Obviously, the heroes learn of this plan by accident and must find a way to stop him.

That's about all I have for now (and yeah, I did notice the similarities with Xykon and the Snarl - it wasn't where I got the idea though). I need help answering the following questions (and maybe more, feel free to add questions, heh):

#1 What is this ancient evil? A daemon lord? The Tarrasque? A kitten of such infinite cuteness that all who gaze upon it go insane? Something else?
#2 Who is the BBEG? A mortal wizard? A daemon himself?
#3 Why would he try to set it free? Wouldn't it do something like eat the world or at least rain fire and brimstone upon it when set free? How does that benefit the BBEG?


*Meaning if I can find a good group in London, where I'm moving for university.

Solo
2007-07-18, 04:06 AM
Dracoliths would sounds better than Dracostones, IMHO.

As for the monster, hmm..... the Tarrasque is a classic monster for these scenarios. It would fit well.

Demon lords aren't too shabby either. I say it depends on your campaign setting. Do you want to involve demons, or would you prefer something more focused on the material plane?

Same can be said for deciding the race of the wizard.

As for motivation, ransoming the world is a classic motive.

"And I will release the Tarrasque unless you pay me... One million dollars!"
*Dun dun dun dunada! Dunada!*

Abbott
2007-07-18, 04:06 AM
1. Why not simply use a mad god or goddess. Everybody loves mad deities and it would be good because it would require the the players to succeed to stop the BBEG because it can't possibly be done again. The weakening of his bonds could also cause some freaky effects which could become more apparent the further alon the game you progress...
2. If you go with the mad god idea, simply use an Ur-Priest any kind of psychopathic researcher. Otherwise, a nice twist would be a really old woman or man. See below...
3. The psychopathic researcher or Ur-Priest could probably think they could control the god, which they obviously can't. However, the old man or woman could be interesting because they're so old they know they'll go senile or infirm any minute (but it's D&D so they're still kick-ass) and they've grown so tired of life they want to go out with a boom. I just realised Pratchett already did that, but i think it would make for a cool game.

Xuincherguixe
2007-07-18, 04:22 AM
You could make the thing really anti climatic. A kitten would work good, but it could also be something really stupid that the party has to make a will save to avoid laughing at.

Even better, it turns out that the thing isn't really evil just inconvenient for the elves. The BBEG may or may not know this. Or, perhaps it wasn't evil but now it's so mad at the elves for wronging it, it'll destroy the world if that's what it takes to get revenge.

ChrisMcDee
2007-07-18, 04:28 AM
Go on, release that Tarrasque when the party is around Level 4 or 5 :smallamused: It's always fun when the party has an opponent they have to constantly run from while they get on with their other goals. Think the T-Rex from Jurassic Park, only the party spend their careers gathering the power up to eventually fight it. Just imagine how sweet it will be for them when they finally manage to kill it!

Behold_the_Void
2007-07-18, 04:35 AM
Go on, release that Tarrasque when the party is around Level 4 or 5 :smallamused: It's always fun when the party has an opponent they have to constantly run from while they get on with their other goals. Think the T-Rex from Jurassic Park, only the party spend their careers gathering the power up to eventually fight it. Just imagine how sweet it will be for them when they finally manage to kill it!

This idea actually has a good deal of merit. The Tarrasque is pretty much THE monster for these kinds of things, it's huge, stupid, and it breaks anything that gets in its way. Or eats it. Or both.

Having the Tarrasque running around and creating havoc, if done properly, could make for an exciting campaign.

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-18, 04:37 AM
I like killing angels, so...

Okay, before the creation of the world there were three or four things, but only two of them were important: the forces of Light and the forces of Darkness. They battled for, well, a crazy long time, and eventually Darkness won. The leader of Light's armies, (let's call him the Metatron) was severely wounded, and most of his Host was destroyed. What was left of his legion took the Metatron's body and fled, creating a sanctuary (warded by the Dragonstones) in which he could recover. The celestial legion created the dragons to maintain the Metatron's hidey-hole while they kept on fighting Evil. It didn't work out the way they had planned. Somewhere along the way, your world accreted around it (that's another paragraph entirely, though).

Anyway, the Metatron is all better now, and ready to jump back into the fight (cleansing, apocalyptic fire at the ready).
> The dragons should probably have let him out several hundred years ago, but they don't seem interested in doing so.
> The archons (Metatron's closest followers) are desperately trying to retrieve him, since the great War hasn't been going so well in the last illion millennia.
> The world would probably be destroyed if something like the Metatron jumped back into the fray; normally, this sort of thing would stay on the Astral Plane (or whatever), but this guy's been growing in power for a very long time. When he's released, all that energy will burst forth in a very definite, world-ending sort of way (like the Positive Energy Plane merging with the Prime Material); after that, Armageddon will happen.
Whoa, really badly-written wall of text. Oops... (I really shouldn't post after five AM.)

EDIT: To summarize...
1. The incarnation of the forces of Light, and leader of the celestials.
2. The second-in-command of the celestial legions (some powerful Archon), and his followers.
3. The forces of Light are being soundly thrashed without their Glorious Leader; the destruction of the Leader's little cocoon-thing (that is, the universe) is unimportant compared to the final victory over Evil.

Citizen Joe
2007-07-18, 04:56 AM
The great evil could be some philosophy, maybe like freedom. Freedom without wisdom is Chaos. So the dragons may have ruled over the land and hid the very concept of Freedom from their subjects. As it turns out, the BBEG may end up being a liberator.

B!shop
2007-07-18, 05:19 AM
I think you don't need to decide what's evil is bound.
Mistery is a good menace for your party.

For the BBEG you can think of an organization, not a single boos but a group, maybe interested in something related to the binding stone (carved from some special material?Placed in strategic places?) maybe even unaware that destroyins (or moving) the binding stone will release the evil.
You can runa campaign where the party get informations about the release and have to find a way to inform the organization of the consequences of his actions.

Kurald Galain
2007-07-18, 06:13 AM
Dracoliths would sounds better than Dracostones, IMHO.

<pedant>
Draco = Latin, Lith = Greek. Therefore "dracolith" is a contamination.
</pedant>

mostlyharmful
2007-07-18, 06:18 AM
the organization doesn't even need to know what they're doing, all they need to see is a whole lot of powerful magic thingamebobs lying around from a previous era just crying out for an inventive reuse, the thing they're trapping wasn't recorded (dragons don't write things down) and has been there so long trying to notice it is like trying to notice background radiation (very very powerful but perfectly normal so no-one sees it).

only the Gods/Dragon-overlords/???? are old enough to remember the point of the dragonstones and to act against the BBEG would draw more attention to the problem, what they need are minions. A small group of capable loonies with easily identified means of manipulation (lust for gold, cared for relatives, self-preservation instinct, ?????) to do the dirty work

Solo
2007-07-18, 06:21 AM
<pedant>
Draco = Latin, Lith = Greek. Therefore "dracolith" is a contamination.
</pedant>

Stop oppressing their cultures, you ethnocentric person!

ReluctantDragon
2007-07-18, 06:42 AM
<pedant>
Draco = Latin, Lith = Greek. Therefore "dracolith" is a contamination.
</pedant>

It would be a name existing in a world of fantasy, magic, and dragons. I think a bit of language contamination is allowed. Culture contamination certainly is. Besides if anyone has a question about its derivation, he can say "A wizard did it." Problem solved. :smallbiggrin:

Saithis Bladewing
2007-07-18, 06:51 AM
Maybe it's just me but I feel the Tarrasque has been underused, especially if it gets released at low levels, so I'd support that. As for the BBEG...wizards and daemon lords, while fun, are also a bit overdone in my opinion. I'd go for something slightly crazier, like some kind of possessed, dangerous berserking warrior who is spoken to by voices who tell him to smash the stones, thus creating an enemy behind the enemy, allowing for an ACTUAL BBEG and then a frontal Almost BBEG who they think is the BBEG. Then he and his crazy cult are running around the world trying to smash all the stones before the heroes can find them.

Kaelaroth
2007-07-18, 06:58 AM
I hate Tarrasque. They aren't really evil, more of stupid, and campaigns which have foolish villains end badly.

I back the idea of an evil deity. They work well. I suggest that they are subtly influencing the evil dude - so although he thinks he/she is doing it for him/herself.... a little voice in his/her subconscious is really pulling the strings.

The evil guy should preferably be something like a cleric of the god. This allows him/her to heal him/herself, and still pack religious fervour, happy-fun-death-spells, tough armour - and weapon proficiency! :smallcool:

caden_varn
2007-07-18, 07:24 AM
Instead of an actual creature, you could make it a barrier between the world and demonic planes. After a long war, the dragons drove most of the infernals back to their own realm and created a barrier.

The BBEG is one of a few demons who got caught on the wrong side of the barrier, and who survived until now. Now that the nature of the barrier has been forgotten, he is working to break the barrier and let his kin back through.

Perhaps he is working from the shadows, with a puppet BBEG who is being influenced to do it, with a different apparent motive - to drain the power of the stones for his own use.

Swooper
2007-07-18, 07:37 AM
Wow. Lots of replies, it seems :smallsmile:

@Solo: I think I'll stick with Dragonstones. It's supposed to be what normal people call them, and I suppose that while scholars could use the word 'dracolith', they'd be more likely to use the actual Draconic word for them. I like daemons (meaning 'fiends', I just think deamons sounds better than devils), and I haven't gotten much chance for using them yet (since I haven't DMed anything that lasted past 3rd level). The Tarrasque could be reflavoured as a daemon though, so I'm still not decided.

@Abbott: I like that idea. I'd have to figure out how that interacts with my mythology*, though. Another problem with this idea is that I really dislike the Ur-Priest as written (too easy to take one level of it, then full-divine casting PrC), I'd have to rewrite it.

@Xuincherguixe: Ok, the kitten idea was a joke. I'm not a big fan of silly campaigns. The "really inconvenient for the elves" idea might be workable though, I just can't imagine what would be bad for the elves but not anyone else.

@ChrisMcDee: Interesting idea.

@Inyssius Tor: Wait... that's a lose-lose scenario. Free Mr God, Good wins, but world is destroyed. Don't free him, evil wins, but the world is safe (for now). Might work for an evil party, trying to prevent the angels releasing him but saving the world in the process, becoming heroes. Irony is fun.

@Citizen Joe: Nah, I think I'd rather make it a Dark God or something. No offense though :smallwink:

@B!shop: Well, of course the PCs wouldn't know what exactly they're up against, that's a part of the deal. About the "BBEG doesn't know what he's doing"... That would work, only how hard can it be to show someone the same Ancient Prophecy that the PCs found that tells of the world's destruction if the Dragonstones are destroyed?

@mostlyharmful: Now there's an idea. Maybe the BBEG has no clue what the Dragonstones are for, and after extensive research, finds a way to make them do something villainous (like grant him infinite power or something). Could work with some of the other ideas.

@Saithis Bladewing: Awesome idea (although I like the Tarrasque, which would obviously not be the villain itself, more like the villain's Ultimate Weapon of Ultimate Destruction). Twists are fun, and that sounds like a good twist. This would likely work best with the Dark God version, with the Dark God whispering into the BBEG's head. Or a deamon lord.

@caden_varn: Could work, although the "Gate to the Lower Planes" clichée kinda breaks down when the PC wizard hits 13th level and learns to Plane Shift to the lower planes when desired.

Thanks for the ideas everyone :smallbiggrin: Keep 'em coming!

*Ultra short version: Four elemental gods&goddesses of the heaven/earth/sea/underworld (the old gods), a fifth god (called Ether) later emerged and claimed followers, now is the chief religion in the world, has loads of Saints which are worshipped in place of Ether himself. There are also several minor religions, a culture of dragon-worshipping humans, Half-Giants have a vulture headed daemon/god of their own etc.

Ashtar
2007-07-18, 07:40 AM
And why would the dragons not have imprisoned one of their own? Maybe they imprisoned their creator? Are the dragons still actively defending the prison locks? Or are there factions of dragons searching to free the locked one.

(/MyLife: ON)
I am running a campaign where the dragons are descended from "He who saw the Genesis", and the first dragons of each colour is more or less a demigod...
(/MyLife: OFF)

B!shop
2007-07-18, 07:45 AM
About the "BBEG doesn't know what he's doing"... That would work, only how hard can it be to show someone the same Ancient Prophecy that the PCs found that tells of the world's destruction if the Dragonstones are destroyed?


If the organization is enemy of the party it's less easy than you think. Also, it's different to tell someone "hey, stop destroying the stones or the world will be destroyed", and be sure the someone believe you :)


By the way, very nice pantheon you made :)

Raum
2007-07-18, 07:53 AM
#1 What is this ancient evil? A daemon lord? The Tarrasque? A kitten of such infinite cuteness that all who gaze upon it go insane? Something else?What type of campaign flavor are you going for? If humorous, definitely the kitten. :) For more of a horror feel, leave the "Great Evil" undefined and have different sources describe it in conflicting manners. Just keep the descriptions horrific and emphasize that the world nearly ended before it could be bound.


#2 Who is the BBEG? A mortal wizard? A daemon himself?
#3 Why would he try to set it free? Wouldn't it do something like eat the world or at least rain fire and brimstone upon it when set free? How does that benefit the BBEG?Along with what type of campaign flavor you're looking for, need to know whether your world is black and white or shades of gray in terms of morality. For a black and white world, maybe a demon possessed wizard is trying to initiate Ragnarok. If things aren't always so clear cut, what other affect did the obelisks have on the world? Maybe the wizard is misguidedly trying to end a side effect while believing the original danger was surely overly exaggerated. Of course it may just be the Goddess of Cuteness trying to free her kitten.

WorthingSon
2007-07-18, 08:07 AM
My suggestion would be to have a non-BBEG BBEG. For example the beloved king of X kingdom suddenly turns evil. Starts slaughtering the weak etc... He starts to wage wars, and he is conquering the kingdoms that contain the dragonstones so that he can destroy them.

But here is the big twist that makes it make sense:

The king has been given a gift of some ancient powerful artifact (could be a sword or ring or whatever). This artifact has a higher Ego than your king, and thus takes him over. The artifact is evil and is causing the evil that is now plauging the land.

This artifact contains the soul of some great evil (maybe even the soul of the hidden great evil...) and seeks to end it's eternal confinment in the item by destroying the world (thus it's self and those it feels wronged by).

The real issue is will you PC's go through the trouble of trying to figure out what happened to the king, or will they slay the inoccent and benevolent ruler because they didn't wanna RP enough to find out the real issue.

And if they don't find out, you may wanna send some NPC hero to help them fight the king, so that he can pick up the item before them and thus force them into a second fight (and make them see the error of their non RP ways!).

Roderick_BR
2007-07-18, 08:11 AM
I like the deity idea. I mean, they needed a bunch of dragons to lock it up!
Hmm... I'm gonna snatch the idea...
Maybe an evil goddess, that tried to take over the world or something. As a BBEG, I could use a bard that found old scriptures and fell in love. I've been waiting to make a bard BBEG for some time now.
The bard will look for more knowledge, get allies, gather funds. Since he'll not attract attention to himself at first, the bigger groups won't notice it, but the players will stumble into clues from time to time, to finally find out what the heck is going on.
And just to be fun: In the last scene, where the players need to stop the ritual to free her, the goddess will have enough power to aid her "lover", by summoning demons or something, and the bard may as well get some template gained through rituals, so he's more of a threat.

Sir Giacomo
2007-07-18, 08:14 AM
Hmmm- unfortunately I won't be moving again to London anytime soon - sounds like an interesting campaign...



#1 What is this ancient evil? A daemon lord? The Tarrasque? A kitten of such infinite cuteness that all who gaze upon it go insane? Something else?

What about this: the ancient evil is a...time! Maybe imagine this "TIME" being like the Lovecraft Nyalathotep-like monster: beyond human understanding, and affecting time.
Ages ago, dragons feared that TIME would bring an end to their rule.
They all used their magic to turn themselves into powerful stones (dragon stones) that bound TIME to the core of the world, which is why since then, time is linear in the world as we humans know it, and history started. The dragons in this way became immortal, but only the hatchlings survived, a shadow of the power of their parents now turned stone. Maybe the dragonstones are sources of great magic (giving power to spellcasters near them) or radiate massive AMF (meaning an almost magic-free world).
The surviving dragons lived outside of linear time still (explaining their long life) but turned crazy sometimes, destroying themselves (read the Vampire books by Anne Rice to get an impression about long-lived beings getting strangely crazy).


#2 Who is the BBEG? A mortal wizard? A daemon himself?

In this case, I'd say the BBEG is one of the last (the last?) dragons who decided that he wanted to free the old dragons power by destroying the stones. He does not care enough about TIME that he/it/she thinks about freeing it twice.


#3 Why would he try to set it free? Wouldn't it do something like eat the world or at least rain fire and brimstone upon it when set free? How does that benefit the BBEG?


Well, the dragon believes with TIME free it will still be independent of time and be able to escape timeless insanity when everything around it is bound in linear time. Plus, it hopes to get the old dragons' powers.
Meanwhile, the rest of the world would of course be destroyed in a strange way: with TIME rampant again, there would be no linear time flows anymore, everything would happen simultaneously, maddingly, people would meet their future selves, paradoxia etc: chaos would reign!

Hope that helped.

- Giacomo

Aris Katsaris
2007-07-18, 08:35 AM
<pedant>
Draco = Latin, Lith = Greek. Therefore "dracolith" is a contamination.
</pedant>

You're right, "Drakolith" would be the equivalent Greek -- but do you really care about the etymological difference between k and hard-c ?

AslanCross
2007-07-18, 08:45 AM
I'd want to suggest that your ancient evil be an Atropal, but that's ridiculous (then again it never has to be released anyway). I feel that a conjoined twin Atropal (use the multiheaded template) would be a really creepy BBEG.

At first glance, this might not be as cool as a demon lord, but maybe the Almost-BBEG could be a Storm Giant monk or blackguard? That would be awesome. In my own campaign the BBEG is a half-fiend ogre mage warlock/blackguard. (I tend to prefer LE villains).

ALOR
2007-07-18, 08:55 AM
#1 What is this ancient evil? A daemon lord? The Tarrasque? A kitten of such infinite cuteness that all who gaze upon it go insane? Something else?
#2 Who is the BBEG? A mortal wizard? A daemon himself?
#3 Why would he try to set it free? Wouldn't it do something like eat the world or at least rain fire and brimstone upon it when set free? How does that benefit the BBEG?

*Meaning if I can find a good group in London, where I'm moving for university.

1. well i had an idea for an ancient evil for a campaign that died before i could reveal it. basicly this creature is pure evil. it's so powerful it can end the blood war by it'self uniting the infinite hordes of the abyss and the armies of the 9 hells into 1 single unstoppable army. within 2 months of his return the celstial plains would lie in ruin as the new evil army conqured them. within 4 months they would have taken almost all of the outer planes. within 6 months this unstoppable horde would attack the prime material plane. this would give you adventure oppertunites well into epic levels should they fail to stop the destruction of the dragon stones.
2 & 3. you have several options. it could be the unholy union of a solar and a sucubus who learned of the stones thru ancenit texts. He seeks to release
the great evil to make the multiverse pay for his tortured exsistence. it couls be a powerful wizard that really has no idea what truley lies sealed within the world but thinks it a source of incredible power and by unlocking it will become all powerful. It could be a ultralolth (those are the big powerful nuetrel evil fiends right?) that is tired of seeing the feindish forces battling each other and wish's to release this power to unite them.

Tweekinator
2007-07-18, 09:33 AM
For the Ancient Evil, you could go with a demon lord, but perhaps make the large threat if the demon lord gets released, then the world is marginally pulled into the Abyss and becomes the half-material/half-abyssal realm of the demon lord.

For the BBEG, I like the idea of severely misguided/possessed/insane guy. Perhaps cannibalizing Saithis Bladewing and Worthingson's ideas and have a hero be possessed by the demon lord or perhaps an artifact or something else. Maybe have it so whenever he destroys one of the dragonstones, he becomes even more powerful.

Perhaps the method of release is that when the last stone is destroyed, the demon lord is in full possession of the hero, whose body transforms(or not) to become more demonic/impressive/horrifying. That could lead to a pretty nice Final Showdown at the last of the dragonstones.

WorthingSon
2007-07-18, 10:47 AM
A kitten of such infinite cuteness that all who gaze upon it go insane?

Like this?
http://www.acc.umu.se/~zqad/cats/1181592538-20085deadofcute.jpg

Saithis Bladewing
2007-07-18, 10:57 AM
For the BBEG, I like the idea of severely misguided/possessed/insane guy. Perhaps cannibalizing Saithis Bladewing and Worthingson's ideas and have a hero be possessed by the demon lord or perhaps an artifact or something else. Maybe have it so whenever he destroys one of the dragonstones, he becomes even more powerful.

I'd agree with that, though we're dipping into Diablo II territory with that one, doesn't make it any worse. It's the kind of plotline I'd use in my games, personally.

Tweekinator
2007-07-18, 10:58 AM
I'd agree with that, though we're dipping into Diablo II territory with that one, doesn't make it any worse. It's the kind of plotline I'd use in my games, personally.

Seriously? Well, in my defense, I have never played Diablo II and so am counting it as a really awesome, original idea.

ravenkith
2007-07-18, 11:00 AM
Ok, let me tell you a story.


Long ago, even before the elves were brought forth, before even the dragons came to be, there existed one spirit: the spirit of all things.

This spirit created the universe out of nothingness, giving birth to space. But space was dark, and cold, and lonely.

So the spirit filled the void with whirling globes of light, that burned into eternity, and set them to spinning for it's own amusement.

The spinning balls of light spat little trails of fire into the darkness, and where the trails passed, traces of metals and minerals were left behind, eventually forming the planets, as the balls of flame greedily tried to pull the parts of themselves back together.

The spirit watched, enthralled by the dance of metals and minerals and fire and ice, as the cold of the space it had created was slowly dispatched, and in watching, it drew too close to the first ball of flame it had set to spinning, which wobbled and spun out of control, exploding with impossible force, that, unexpected as it was, split the spirit in twain.

Suddenly, where there had been one, now there was two. Unexpected, unasked for, each thought the other had no right to exist, and so the two spirits struggled against one another mightily, for millenia, smashing balls of flame and planets alike as they clashed against one another.

Finally, the two spirits came to realize that they were too evenly matched to defeat each other in this way, and so split the universe in two between them, drawing a line down the center of all things.

But the destruction of the first ball of flame, the one that had split them in two,caused an imbalance - there were now an odd number of the great spheres, with their tiny planets, and neither of the spirits would surrender the orb to the other.

Since they could not beat each other directly, they resolved to create minions to battle on their behalf.

So the first spirit reached down, into the core of this world, and pulled forth a glob of molten metals, forming them into the metallic dragons, each one formed of pure, noble material. Then he took flame from the heart of this world's sphere, and placed a little in each dragon's breast. As he went down the line, the fire he held weakened, and cooled, altering it's very nature.

Gold, Silver, Copper and Brass were born this way, and they were mighty, indeed.

The other spirit, wroth with anger and embittered by jealousy, quickly copied the motions of his twin. He did not take so great a care as the first spirit, and so, contaminants filled his creations. To make them different from his twin's, he gave them all different colors: Red and Black, Blue and Green, and lastly, White.

So all the dragons warred against one another, at the direction of the two spirits, and fought, tooth and nail, breath and wing, one against the other, killing each other until very few were left.

With each death, one spirit wept, and one spirit laughed. The one, to see that which was truly his creation spent and lost, the other, with relief and pleasure to see that their strengths were too evenly matched once more.

Where the tears fell upon this world, great oceans came into existence. The oceans seeped into the core of the world, where they were purified, and then rose again with the heat of the world's core, to form the springs and the rivers, the lakes and the streams.

The wounded dragons, tired from beating their wings for so long, landed on this world, to rest. Soon, however, the fires within the dragon's breasts began to dim, and die, as they ran out of fuel in the emptiness of space.

Not wanting to lose too many of their warriors to anything less than battle, the two great spirits brought forth an atmosphere, and all manner of vegetation and animal life, all to keep the fires of the great dragons burning.

Locked in stalemate once again, the laughing brother took the earth of this world, and shaped it into hideous forms, and breathed on it, giving it life in the form of Devils and Daemons. He gifted these, his first true creations, with great powers, and the abilty to do great harm, in the hopes of weakening his twin's mighty dragon's, so that he might triumph.

In response, the first spirit copied him, taking time and putting forth great effort, he created the angels and archons to help his dragons and aid them in the coming battles.

Once more, the minions fought, but the capabilities of the one side could not outmatch the other.

And so it went, with elementals, celestial and fiendish creations and the like, until, one day, tired of the unending tie the two spirits fought, the darkest spirit went to sweep the board clean in disgust.

The caring spirit dove in front of the blow, unwilling to see all the two of them had done together, undone in a fit of pique, and took a mortal blow. Wounded and dying, he appealed to all that lived to loan him their strength.

Each with their own motivations, all that lived gave of themselves to the lighter spirit, who plunged the darker spirit into the core of this world, and bound him there, using the life energy of all things as his chains, as well as the last of his own power. He gave up his own existence to preserve ours, putting all his power into creating the chains.

These chains would take their power from the dark spirit, and use it to fuel all things living.

An improvised prison at best, it's design was not perfect. The dark spirit watched his twin's death and laughed, loudly, shaking all the world with his guffaws. He reached out of his prison, and caused much havok and pain and loss, releasing swaths of energy upon the world, turning some of the green to ash, and some of it to sand, and freezing some of it in the ancient cold of space.

Finally, the Angels and Demons and Dragons, the greatest of all the twin's creations, banded together to seal the dark spirit yet further away from the world. It took much effort, and experimentation, and even more lives, but in the end, the reduced population of these three races learned how to manipulate the chains of the prison to release the spirits energy, without releasing the spirit itself.

This energy suffused the world, and could be manipulated to do great things.

The first thing the Dragons created using the spirit's power was the Dragonstones. These stones were the means by which they, and the angels and demons, sealed the dark spirit away.

They placed two great barriers between the spirit and the world, extradimensional spaces that surrounded the imprisoned, one inside the other.

The Angels and Archons, not trusting the former servants of the dark in the least, and not wanting to fight a two front war, took the outer sphere for their own, swearing to guard it for all eternity.

The devils and demons took the inner sphere, swearing the same.

The dragons took the world itself for their own, each going their own way, the top of the heap. Unfortunately, with the barriers in place, the dragons were further away from the source of power, and so became restricted in what they could make they power do.

The Angels and Archons were closer, and so their powers grew. The leaders of these groups became so powerful, that they eventually became regarded as gods, even among their own kind, as they made their territory into a utopia.

The devils and daemons were closer still, but that turned out to be their undoing. Filled with rage, the dark spirit lashed out at the only world he could reach: his former servants'. It was not long before the place was made into what it is today: hell.

The newborn gods experimented with their powers, and from their experiments came the elves, and the goodly races.

The Demons, meanwhile, fighting for their lives, experimented as best they could, creating Orcs and the like, but mostly increasing their influence by corrupting the creations of others, thus creating the Drow, and figuring out how to make Undead.

So, we come to recent history. Where we find that one demon, driven mad by his constant torment, has decided the only way to end it, the best way to end it, is to unchain the dark shadow.

To end the age of magic, at the very least, and remove the bonds that tie the demons and the angels to their home planes, by destroying the Dragonstones, whose original purpose lies forgotten in the sands of time...even as they themselves have been.

This is simply...the beginning....

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-18, 11:03 AM
Whoa man-sized wall of text use some spoiler tags, man!

Thinker
2007-07-18, 11:09 AM
Adding to Tweekinator's idea,
Why not have it so that the world is already half-way into the abyss. The Blood War rages on half the world, but the fiends are unable to venture into the material plane for any meaningful amount of time. The BBEG is actually the devil lord and is trying to destroy the dragon stones to plunge the rest of the plane into the Abyss. Every dragon stone that is destroyed grants the BBEG more powerful, making it reasonable for the party to defeat him time and again, while both gain more power in between fights.

ravenkith
2007-07-18, 11:11 AM
Menh. Sorry, I think I got a bit carried away there....:smallredface:

Saint George
2007-07-18, 01:09 PM
Two ideas! You could use the standard, when they imprisoned the big evil bugaboo they imprisoned his mind and body in different places. As per usual, the mind starts to leak out (or is freed accidentally) and ends up possessing some poor person and using their body to track down and free their true body.

Secondly, if you want to go with a more ironic twist at the end make the players come upon the ancient dragon scrolls (Tablets... less flammable) that claim that the power dragon seers foresaw a race destroying the world in the future. They would breed uncontrollably, destroy all of the land, and would murder every other race for their own whims. Determined to stop such evil, the dragons rounded up the originators of the race and locked them in an underground magic prison. Fast forward to BBEG opening up the prison only to find... humans. Oops.

Mike_Lemmer
2007-07-18, 02:39 PM
Well, what if the Dracoliths aren't all made to contain just one BBEG? What if each of them imprisons a very powerful being that, legend has it, must serve the one that releases him?

I could see an ambitious warlord (Genghis Khan?) trying to free as many of them from the Dracoliths as possible, then conscript them as his generals. Not only can the players stop him, but they can free the beings themselves, bolstering their own side.

The twist, of course, is one of the dracoliths imprisons an uncontrollable beast that, if released, will ravage everything in its path and require both sides to cooperate to take it down.

I'd call it Khan, the Genie Generals, and the Terrasque.

Swooper
2007-07-19, 07:23 AM
Again, thanks for lots of awesome replies!

@Ashtar: That'd work. Maybe it's some massively templated demon-dragon hybrid. Or just a Hellfire Wyrm (MM2 I think, or Fiend Folio).

@B!shop: Still, the idea doesn't sound too fascinating to me. I'd have a hard time making ~20 levels worth of adventures revolving around them convincing the BBEG of the error of his ways, instead of the usual route of killing-his-minions-in-ascending-order-of-power. Also: Thanks - I gave it a lot of thought. :smallcool: It's not complete though, I might post it on the homebrew forums or something when it is.

@Raum: Definitely not too humorous - But not too much horror either. I like the 'conflicting sources' point. Will definitely use that. Shades of grey would be ideal - I'm, for example, not sticking with dragons being colour coded by alignment. Also, I have a theocracy with an order of paladins as it's elite warriors... but they also use undead for their armies. How's that for shades of grey? :smallamused: However, I have no qualms about using capital-E Evil bad guys when the situation requires it. I'll try to not use them all the time though, to keep the players guessing. I should maybe have mentioned it in the original post that I want the Dragonstones to be objects of power, nodes in a complex, planet-spanning network of ley lines. They will grant power to people who know how to tap into it (maybe requiring a feat?).

@WorthingSon: Good idea. I might just use it, or use it in combination with a bunch of other ideas.

@Roderick_BR: I'm not too fond of bards, but the "falling in love with the dark goddess" idea looks cool.

@Sir_Giacamo: Thanks, man. If I don't find a good group I might just turn it into a PbP campaign and run it on these boards. I hope I'll find a group, though... As for your idea... it's... a bit too horror themed, too nihilistic for my tastes. It's an interesting idea, but I'll let you use that one yourself sometime :smallwink:

@AslanCross: Atropal... isn't that the epic monster described as an undead, stillborn god? If so, no thanks O.o Nonhuman BBEG would be cool though. Or as a lieutinant to the real BBEG. I already used a half-fiend ogre mage idea though, in my current campaign (although the PCs have never encountered him).

@ALOR: Ooooh, half-fiend Solar. Fallen angel type. Now that's something for the wizards.com column about impossible monsters (like half-dragon dragons and multiheaded stuff). Might just nick that idea, whether I make it the BBEG himself or not. Could be a sidekick, too.

@Tweekinator: I like that. Especially the 'gaining power with each stone smashed' part. Less so the 'pulling the world into the Abyss' part.

@Saithis Bladewing: Never played the Diablo games myself, dunno about my players though (as I haven't formed the group yet).

@ravenkith: Wow, wall of text if I ever saw one. A bit more specific than I was after, too. Maybe a bit too black and white for my world, likely won't use the whole thing though I might nick some bits and pieces.

@Thinker: Nah, the world is too well developed to change it in such a significant way.

@Saint_George: The first idea, I'm not too fond of. If I go with a daemon lord/dark god theme, the body itself wouldn't be important, it's more likely the thing's soul that's trapped down below and when free, it can materialize a suitable body and/or possess someone. As for the second one: While interesting, it doesn't quite mesh with the campaign world.

@Mike_Lemmer: An interesting thought, but I prefer it being just one creature I think. I guess it could work if there's maybe one daemon lord trapped deep underground, and several daemon princes imprisoned in key Dragonstones.

Arakune
2007-09-25, 01:30 PM
i vote for the kitten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57903&page=2)

Keld Denar
2007-09-25, 02:28 PM
EDIT: To summarize...
1. The incarnation of the forces of Light, and leader of the celestials.
2. The second-in-command of the celestial legions (some powerful Archon), and his followers.
3. The forces of Light are being soundly thrashed without their Glorious Leader; the destruction of the Leader's little cocoon-thing (that is, the universe) is unimportant compared to the final victory over Evil.

I like this. Building on it, some fanatical lawful good church organization (see Pholtus from the Greyhawk pantheon) seeks to unlock some ancient superweapon to tip the scales from evil (which is winning) back to good. They start smashing the dracostones (or just activating them, probably more realistic) and each stone adds power to the weapon (like the mana fortress from Secret of Mana of old). The stones leak positive energy into the prime, which quells demons and undead in the area, but also causes natural life (plants and animals) to become accelerated. This upsets natural balance (insert 3rd party, druidic in nature) and cause lots of dangerous animals and plants to run around (dire animals (squirrels!!!), treants, and other beasties). The PCs need to supress the positive energy leak, stop the "good" church and all its followers, then find some other way to deal with the large evil presence which is why the weapon was needed in the first place. I like it. I need a home group now....grrrr. WTB players in Boston!

Raolin_Fenix
2007-09-25, 02:54 PM
#1 What is this ancient evil? A daemon lord? The Tarrasque? A kitten of such infinite cuteness that all who gaze upon it go insane? Something else?

Depends on the campaign. You can tailor it to the party. In a party full of LG paladins and Knights of the Chalice and whatnot, you should probably go with the daemon lord. In a NG party full of Lathander devotees, you'd want to try out a lich, dracolich, or even demilich, depending on the power level of the characters when they face it. With a CG group of freedom-lovers, Tymora worshippers, and repentant drow, have an immortal sorceror (probably epic) who wants to break the world under his tyrannical rule. In a party of neutral characters looking for loot and personal gain, make it a genie or an ancient dragon; you can tempt them to take three (easily corruptible) Wishes, or the location of the ancient dragon's hoard. And if it's an Evil party, you can really use anything.

Against a party of widely-varied schmucks... use Tucker's Kobolds. =D


#2 Who is the BBEG? A mortal wizard? A daemon himself?

A mortal wizard. It's always a mortal wizard. Maybe a Beguiler or Warmage, depending on what kind of person you want him to be, but most likely Wizard 15/Archmage 5, and/or a couple other good PrCs. Flavor-wise, who else but a wizard has the right combination of knowledge and power to break the seals and set the Evil free? Plus the wizard makes the perfect BBEG; you can custom-design your own trademark spell to terrify the PCs with.

Otherwise, make it a CoDzilla. Whatever he is, you want him to be powerful enough to strike fear into the hearts of an entire party of powerful PCs. Otherwise, there's no point in making him a BBEG at all. The party must respect their BBEG, and must fear (or at least be very justifiably nervous about) facing him in battle, unless you're planning an anticlimactic Lex Luthor final battle.


#3 Why would he try to set it free? Wouldn't it do something like eat the world or at least rain fire and brimstone upon it when set free? How does that benefit the BBEG?

Well, the obvious response is that he thinks he can turn its power to his own benefit (best suited for Wizard BBEG, again). If it's a lich, he thinks he can bind the thing and force it to teach him its spells and the secret to its immortality. If Djinn, he thinks he can force three incorruptible Wishes out of it, or force it into permanent servitude. Daemon Lord, again, he thinks he can keep it in a Magic Circle as a pet, to turn against his foes or lend him power.

On the other hand, you could take it in a different direction: make the BBEG chaotic good. Or even Lawful or Neutral Good. The key is to make him misguided. This, by the way, is my favorite idea: make the BBEG a person that the party can actually sympathize with, make it so that he's not actually such a bad guy -- just kind of dumb or idealistic to a fault. If he's CG, perhaps he thinks (or has been made to think, or tricked into thinking) that the Ancient Evil deserves its freedom; maybe he even thinks the Ancient Evil is just an Ancient wronged Good. Under any Good-BBEG circumstances, maybe he's trying to free the Ancient Evil because he thinks that, once it's free, he can face it and destroy it once and for all (see Magus, of Chrono Trigger).

The key word in all of these situations, good or not, is "thinks." Naturally, it's best that the BBEG be wrong. Turns out the BBEG can't actually harness the Evil's power, and becomes the Evil's unwitting tool. Turns out he gets his Three Wishes, and they destroy him and everything he holds dear. Turns out (if he's CG) that the creature really does want to destroy the world, and deserves its captivity. Turns out that the LG or NG BBEG just isn't powerful enough to beat the Evil, and is destroyed (or utterly humiliated) himself.