PDA

View Full Version : Pathfinder The Verdure [Base Class][PEACH]



Kaskus
2017-01-02, 11:23 PM
Greetings all! This is my first ever post so please excuse me if there are any formatting protocols with which I am unfamiliar. I am looking for some feedback on a base class on which I have been working. I have rearranged some things a couple of times so please forgive if there are some misses in terms of where things are listed, etc...

Regarding BMB:This class has a column for BMB, which is a spellcaster progression stat that allows all classes to contribute to caster level the way all classes contribute to martial prowess via BAB. Check out Trailblazer for a more in depth explanation.

VERDURE

(Brief descriptive paragraph about the class to give a sense of what kind of person members of this class are and the themes of the class.)

Role: In combat, a Verdure is a master of the battlefield itself. Your abilities help shape the battlefield to the advantage of your allies while your plants threaten enemies and provide flanking bonuses to fellow combatants.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

Starting Wealth: 2d6 × 10 gp (average 70 gp.) In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.

Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per level: 4+ Int Bonus

Table: The Verdure


Level
BAB
BMB
Fort
Ref
Will
Plant Damage
Special


1
0
0
2
2
0
1d6
1st Plant, Entangle, Plant Empathy, Spell Blossom


2
1
1
3
3
0
1d6
Adaptation, Mystic Stride


3
1
2
3
3
1
2d6
Bear Fruit 1/day, Wood Shape, Entangle Excludes Allies


4
2
3
4
4
1
2d6
Adaptation, Trackless Step, Plant Bond


5
2
3
4
4
2
3d6
Verdant Stride, 2nd Plant


6
3
4
5
5
2
3d6
Adaptation, Improved Spell Blossom, Bear Fruit 2/day


7
3
5
5
5
3
4d6
Vine Field


8
4
6
6
6
3
4d6
Woodland Sight, Verdant Stride, Adaptation


9
4
6
6
6
4
5d6
Speak with Plants, Bear Fruit 3/day


10
5
7
7
7
4
5d6
Fast Plant, Adaptation, 3rd Plant


11
5
8
7
7
5
6d6
Commune With Nature


12
6
9
8
8
5
6d6
Adaptation, Improved Woodland Sight, Verdant Stride, Bear Fruit 4/day


13
6
9
8
8
6
7d6
Animate Plants


14
7
10
9
9
6
7d6
Greater Spell Blossom, Adaptation


15
7
11
9
9
7
8d6
Tree Stride, 4th Plant, Bear Fruit 5/day


16
8
12
10
10
7
8d6
Adaptation, Greater Woodland Sight


17
8
12
10
10
8
9d6
Greater Vine Field


18
9
13
11
11
8
9d6
Verdant Entourage, Adaptation, Bear Fruit 6/day


19
9
14
11
11
9
10d6
Freedom of Movement


20
10
15
12
12
9
10d6
Pinnacle Adaptation, 5th Plant, Perfected Woodland Sight



Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: a Verdure is proficient with all simple weapons. They are also proficient with light armor but not with shields.

Plant (Su): You cause an enlarged, animate plant to grow at a point you designate within 30 ft. of your location, which may act immediately on your turn. Use your character level plus your Charisma modifier to calculate the plant's attack bonus and CMB. The plant threatens 5 ft. around itself and deals 1d6 damage plus an additional d6 for every 2 levels beyond 1st (for a maximum of 10d6 at level 19). When creating a plant, you must designate its form (Bludgeoning, Piercing or Slashing). The plant inflicts the type of damage associated with its form. Adaptations may modify these forms or add completely new ones to be selected. This designation cannot be changed. Plants occupy space as a medium sized creature but have no movement. Summoning a plant is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Dismissing a plant is a free action. A Verdure may have 1 active plant at first level plus an additional active plant at every 5th level (to a maximum of 5 at level 20).

Although living, Plants are objects. A plant makes attacks as a creature (see above) and has the following statistics.
Plant Statistics:
- HP equal to Verdure Level x Cha Mod
- AC equal to 10 + BMB + Cha Mod
- Hardness equal to Cha Mod
- Plants are considered to be attended by the Verdure and thus use the Verdure's Saves
- Plant / Object Traits - Plants are immune to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms), paralysis, poison, polymorph, sleep, and stun.
- Plants are not subject to death from massive damage
- Plants take half damage from energy attacks
- Plants take half damage from ranged weapons (unless the weapon is a siege engine or something similar)
- Plants are immune to nonlethal damage and to critical hits


Entangle (Sp): You may cast Entangle as the Spell with a caster level equal to your verdure level a number of times each day equal to 3 plus your Charisma bonus (minimum 1). This ability functions like the spell of the same name except for the following: Use your BMB in place of the spell level for determining the save DC for your Entangle ability. At 3rd level and beyond, you may designate any number of creatures to be unaffected by your area of entanglement.

Entangle Spell:School transmutation; Level druid 1, ranger 1, shaman 1; Domain plant 1; Elemental School wood 2

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF

EFFECT
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area plants in a 40-ft.-radius spread
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw Reflex partial; see text; Spell Resistance no

DESCRIPTION
This spell causes tall grass, weeds, and other plants to wrap around creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area. Creatures that fail their save gain the entangled condition. Creatures that make their save can move as normal, but those that remain in the area must save again at the end of your turn. Creatures that move into the area must save immediately. Those that fail must end their movement and gain the entangled condition. Entangled creatures can attempt to break free as a move action, making a Strength or Escape Artist check. The DC for this check is equal to the DC of the spell. The entire area of effect is considered difficult terrain while the effect lasts.

If the plants in the area are covered in thorns, those in the area take 1 point of damage each time they fail a save against the entangle or fail a check made to break free. Other effects, depending on the local plants, might be possible at GM discretion.
Entangled Condition:The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) or lose the spell.

Plant Empathy (Ex):
A verdure can improve the attitude of a plant creature. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The verdure rolls 1d20 and adds her verdure level and her Charisma modifier to determine the plant empathy check result.

To use plant empathy, the verdure and the plant creature must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing a plant creature in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

A verdure may also use her Handle Animal skill on plant creatures with an intelligence of 1 or 2.

Spell Blossom (Su): As a standard action, you may create small plants that serve a variety of basic utilitarian functions. These plants may be created attached to the verdure, a non-creature plant or from the ground. As a swift action, someone adjacent to or holding the plant can pick it, allowing them to cast the orison by making use of its products. If not used within one minute after picking, the products are rendered unusable. A Spell Blossom uses the Verdure's level in place of caster level for determining level dependent effects. A starting Verdure may make spell blossoms, which replicate the following spells:
Acid Splash: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/acid-splash/) Orb deals 1d3 acid damage.
Blossom (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing-3rd-party-spells/b/blossom/) Flowers grow on touched plant.
Cleanse of Alcohol (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing-3rd-party-spells/c/cleanse-of-alcohol/) Cures ill effects of alcohol consumption.
Create Water: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-water/) Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Guidance: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/guidance/) +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.
Idyllic Sleep (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing-3rd-party-spells/i/idyllic-sleep/) Subject sleeps comfortably even in uncomfortable conditions.
Know Direction: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/k/know-direction/) You discern north.
Light: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/light/) Object shines like a torch.
Lightning Sand (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing-3rd-party-spells/l/lightning-sand/) You create a patch of lightning sand.
Purify Food & Drink: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/purify-food-and-drink/) Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water.
Quicken Stride (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing-3rd-party-spells/q/quicken-stride/) Subject's land speed increases by 5 ft.
Resistance: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/resistance/) Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Root: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/rare-cantrips/) Subject gains +2 on certain CMD checks.
Settle Stomach (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/4-winds-fantasy-gaming-3rd-party-spells/settle-stomach/)
Sickening Smell (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing-3rd-party-spells/s/sickening-smell/) Pollen cloud sickens creatures.
Simple Bed (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing-3rd-party-spells/s/simple-bed/) Turns vegetation into comfortable resting place.
Spiders Thread (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing-3rd-party-spells/s/spiders-thread/) /you summon a ropelike strand of spider's silk.
Virtue: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/virtue/) Subject gains 1 temporary hp.
Wooden Club (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/w/wooden-club/) You summon a wooden club.

Adaptation (Su): At 2nd level, and then again every 2 levels thereafter, a Verdure develops a new adaptation. Unless otherwise noted, an Verdure cannot select an individual adaptation more than once. Some adaptations can only be taken if the Verdure has met certain prerequisites first, such as possessing other adaptations. The DC of any saving throw called for by an adaptation is equal to 10 + 1/2 the Verdure's level + the Verdure's charisma modifier.

Mystic Stride (Ex): At 2nd level, a Verdure gains the benefit of the Mystic Stride feat even if she does not meet the prerequisites. She can move at full speed even through thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion, even if those areas confer the entangled condition.

Bear Fruit (Su): Starting at 3rd level, a Verdure may cause any plant she touches to instantly bear 2d4 magical fruit. Such fruit when eaten, provides the benefit of fruit enchanted with the Goodberry spell with the additional effect of granting a +2 bonus to Fortitude check for 1 hour after consumption. A Verdure may use this ability once per day plus an additional time for each 3 levels beyond 3rd (for a maximum of 6 times per day at level 18). A Verdure may also cause a plant she touches to flower or bear mundane fruit appropriate to the plant. This usage of the power may be done at will.

Wood Shape (Sp): At 3rd level, the Verdure gains the ability to use Wood Shape at will as the spell using her Verdure level in place of her caster level.

Wood Shape Spell:School transmutation; Level druid 2, shaman 2; Domain artifice 2

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF

EFFECT
Range touch
Target one touched piece of wood no larger than 10 cu. ft. + 1 cu. ft./level
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates (object); Spell Resistance yes (object)

DESCRIPTION
Wood shape enables you to form one existing piece of wood into any shape that suits your purpose. While it is possible to make crude coffers, doors, and so forth, fine detail isn’t possible. There is a 30% chance that any shape that includes moving parts simply doesn’t work.

Trackless Step (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a Verdure leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

Plant Bond (Ex): At 4th level, a Verdure forms a bond with her environment. This bond can take one of two forms: Aura of Dominion or Companion (see details below).

Aura of Dominion (Su): The wilds are such an intrinsic part of your being, you take them with you wherever you go. You emit an aura of dominion with a radius equal to 10 ft per 5 Verdure levels you possess (to a maximum of 40 ft at level 20). Your surroundings begin to sprout small plants and undergrowth even in environments or climates where such growth is normally not possible such as dungeon halls or frozen tundra. The plantlife is lush but not so thick or tall as to hamper movement or sight. This provides no mechanical effects but does allow spells and abilities dependent on plants & natural growth to function. As a swift action, the Verdure may focus on the area affected by her aura. The Verdure must use a swift action each round to maintain this focus but gains the following abilities:
- The verdure may cause the plant life with the area to grow larger, more dense and thorny. Being an extension of herself, the plants in this area know friend from foe and the Verdure may designate any number of creatures to be unaffected. Creatures within the area and not exempted by the Verdure take 1d4 points of piercing damage whenever they move more than half their speed. This damage increases to 1d6 points at 10th level, 1d8 points at 15th level, and 2d6 points at 20th level.
- The verdure may use a move action to increase the diameter of her aura by 10 ft. This increase lasts as long as the verdure maintains her focus. This ability may be used multiple times up to 1/2 the Verdure's class level and its effects stack.

Companion: The verdure forms a close bond with a plant companion. This plant is a loyal companion that accompanies the verdure on her adventures. Except for the companion being a creature of the plant type, drawn from the list of plant companions, this ability otherwise works like the standard druid's animal companion ability. For purposes of this ability, the verdure's effective druid level is equal to his verdure level –3.

Verdant Stride (Su): Starting at 5th level, a Verdure's command of the surrounding plants becomes more instinctual and they become like an extension of the Verdure's own body. You gain a single stride ability from the list below and again and levels 8 & 12.

Strides:

Arboreal Stride: You may move at your full speed through the canopies of trees whose bases are no farther apart than your base speed.

Canyon Stride: Plants reflexively grow and move to support you even beyond the edges of flat ground. So long as you begin and end your movement on solid ground, you may move normally over pits, canyons and other drops without falling. Note that this is reflexive on the part of the plants and the Verdure need not know that the drop is there such as in the case of a hidden pit. The Verdure may not move at an angle greater than 45 degrees with this ability. If the Verdure fails to end her movement on a surface capable of supporting her weight, the plants give way and she falls.

A Verdure with Canyon Stride may also touch the edge of a cliff, pit or similar drop off and create horizontal growth capable of supporting a creature moving across it. This growth must be anchored at both ends and extend this out to a maximum distance equal to the verdure's base speed. Growth capable of supporting a single medium creature may be created as a move action. Growth to support a large creature or 2 medium creatures may be created as a standard action. Growth to support a huge creature, 2 large creatures or 4 medium creatures requires a full round action.

Vertical Stride: Plants grow and reach out to you, providing foot and hand holds as you climb. You gain a climb speed equal to your base speed.

A Verdure with Vertical Stride may also touch the ground at the base of a vertical surface and create growth along the face of that surface, providing handholds for others to climb (Climb DC 5). The Verdure may extended this growth up to a distance equal to her base speed as a standard action. She may extend this another 10 ft. with a standard action. The growth may be extended a maximum number of times equal to the Verdure's Charisma bonus and she must continue to touch the base of the growth in order to extend it.

Improved Spell Blossom (Sp): Select any 5 spells from the list below. You may create create a spell blossom for any one of the selected spells a number of times per day equal to 3 + Your Charisma Modifer. These otherwise function like those created with your Spell Blossom ability.

Improved Spell Blossom Spells: Animate Rope: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/animate-rope/) Makes a rope move at your command.
Blend: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blend/) You change your coloration to match your surroundings.
Blindness/Deafness: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blindness-deafness/) Makes subject blinded or deafened.
Burst of Nettles: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/burst-of-nettles/) Burst deals 3d6 damage and 1d6 acid.
Charm Person: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/charm-person/) Makes one person your friend.
Climbing Beanstalk: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/climbing-beanstalk/) Create a beanstalk that is easy to climb.
Cloud of Seasickness: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cloud-of-seasickness/) Sickening vapors, 1 round/level.
Color Spray: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/color-spray/) Knocks unconscious, blinds and/or stuns weak creatures.
Conjure Carriage: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/conjure-carriage/) Creates a fine carriage (Pumpkin of course!).
Contagion: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/contagion/) Infects subject with chosen disease.
Deep Slumber: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/deep-slumber/) Puts 10 HD of creatures into magical slumber.
Discovery Torch: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/discovery-torch/) Touched object emanates bright light, granting Perception and Sense Motive bonuses.
Enthrall: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enthrall/) Captivates all within 100 ft. + 10 ft./level.
Euphoric Cloud: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/euphoric-cloud/) Fog obscures vision and fascinates living creatures.
Fear: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fear/) Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level.
Flotsam Vessel: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/flotsam-vessel/) Creates a raft from nearby debris.
Fog Cloud: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fog-cloud/) Fog obscures vision.
Forest Friend: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/forest-friend/) Plants in a forested area become helpful instead of hindering to you and your allies.
Fungal Infestation: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fungal-infestation/) Target takes bleed from attacks.
Glue Seal: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/glue-seal/) Makes one 5 ft. square or one object sticky.
Grease: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/grease/) Makes 10 ft. square or one object slippery.
Hold Person: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hold-person/) Paralyzes one humanoid for 1 round/level.
Itching Curse: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/itching-curse/) Target must scratch or take penalties.
Lily Pad Stride: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/lily-pad-stride/) Lily pads support you as you walk across water.
Mad Hallucination: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mad-hallucination/) Target takes penalties to mental action.
Mantle of Calm: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mantle-of-calm/) Neutralize the rage effects of those who have attacked you.
Obscuring Mist: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/obscuring-mist/) Fog surrounds you.
Produce Flame (Needed for Mario Build): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/produce-flame/) 1d6 damage +1/level, touch or thrown.
Shillelagh: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shillelagh/) Cudgel or quarterstaff becomes +1 weapon (2d6 damage) for 1 min./level.
Snare: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/snare/) Creates a magic booby trap.
Spider Climb: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spider-climb/) Grants ability to walk on walls and cielings.
Spike Growth: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spike-growth/) Creatures in area take 1d4 damage, may be slowed.
Spore Burst: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spore-burst/) Spore-filled mushrooms grow on willing plant creature.
Thorn Javelin: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/thorn-javelin/) Wield a javelin that sickens opponents when it strikes.
Vine Strike: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/vine-strike/) Your natural or unarmed attacks entangle those struck.
Web Shelter (3PP): (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing-3rd-party-spells/w/web-shelter/) You summon a shelter of sticky webbing.

Vine Field (Sp): You cause a field of animate vines to appear, which acts as the Black Tentacles spell. Use your BMB in place of caster level for determining duration and other effects dependent upon caster level. You may activate this ability a number of times per day equal to your charisma modifier (minimum 1). You and your allies are not affected by the Vine Field.

Black Tentacles Spell:
School conjuration (creation); Level bloodrager 4, magus 4, sorcerer/wizard 4, summoner 3, unchained summoner 4, witch 4; Bloodline aberrant 4

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (octopus or squid tentacle)

EFFECT
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

DESCRIPTION
This spell causes a field of rubbery black tentacles to appear, burrowing up from the floor and reaching for any creature in the area.

Every creature within the area of the spell is the target of a combat maneuver check made to grapple each round at the beginning of your turn, including the round that black tentacles is cast. Creatures that enter the area of effect are also automatically attacked. The tentacles do not provoke attacks of opportunity. When determining the tentacles’ CMB, the tentacles use your caster level as their base attack bonus and receive a +4 bonus due to their Strength and a +1 size bonus. Roll only once for the entire spell effect each round and apply the result to all creatures in the area of effect.

If the tentacles succeed in grappling a foe, that foe takes 1d6+4 points of damage and gains the grappled condition. Grappled opponents cannot move without first breaking the grapple. All other movement is prohibited unless the creature breaks the grapple first. The black tentacles spell receives a +5 bonus on grapple checks made against opponents it is already grappling, but cannot move foes or pin foes. Each round that black tentacles succeeds on a grapple check, it deals an additional 1d6+4 points of damage. The CMD of black tentacles, for the purposes of escaping the grapple, is equal to 10 + its CMB.

The tentacles created by this spell cannot be damaged, but they can be dispelled as normal. The entire area of effect is considered difficult terrain while the tentacles last.

Woodland Sight: Starting at 8th level, you may ignore up to 20% concealment from natural plants / overgrowth. Concealment generated by magical effects still function normally.

Speak with Plants (Su): Starting at 9th level, you may speak with plants as the spell at will.

Speak with Plants Spell:
School divination; Level bard 4, druid 3, ranger 2

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 min./level

DESCRIPTION
You can communicate with normal plants and plant creatures, and can ask questions of and receive answers from them. A normal plant’s sense of its surroundings is limited, so it won’t be able to give (or recognize) detailed descriptions of creatures or answer questions about events outside its immediate vicinity. The spell doesn’t make plant creatures any more friendly or cooperative than normal. Furthermore, wary and cunning plant creatures are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones may make inane comments. If a plant creature is friendly, it may do some favor or service for you.

Fast Plant: Summoning a plant with your Plant ability is now a move action.

Commune with Nature (Sp): Starting at 11th level, you may cast Commune with Nature as the spell with a caster level equal to your class level a number of times per day equal to charisma modifier (minimum 1).

Commune with Nature Spell:
School divination; Level druid 5, ranger 4, shaman 5

CASTING
Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range personal
Target you
Duration instantaneous

DESCRIPTION
You become one with nature, attaining knowledge of the surrounding territory. You instantly gain knowledge of as many as three facts from among the following subjects: the ground or terrain, plants, minerals, bodies of water, people, general animal population, presence of woodland creatures, presence of powerful unnatural creatures, or even the general state of the natural setting.

In outdoor settings, the spell operates in a radius of 1 mile per caster level. In natural underground settings — caves, caverns, and the like — the spell is less powerful, and its radius is limited to 100 feet per caster level. The spell does not function where nature has been replaced by construction or settlement, such as in dungeons and towns.

Improved Woodland Sight: At 12th level, your ability to see through natural barriers improves. You may ignore all concealment from natural plants / overgrowth including total concealment. Concealment generated by magical effects still functions normally.

Animate Plants (Sp): Starting at 13th level, you may cast Animate Plants as the spell with a caster level equal to your class level a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

Animate Plants Spell:
School transmutation; Level druid 7, shaman 7; Domain plant 7

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V

EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets one Large plant per three caster levels or all plants within range; see text
[b]Duration 1 round/level or 1 hour/level; see text
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

DESCRIPTION
You imbue inanimate plants with mobility and a semblance of life. Each animated plant then immediately attacks whomever or whatever you initially designate as though it were an animated object of the appropriate size category. You may animate one Large or smaller plant, or a number of larger plants as follows: a Huge plant counts as two Large or smaller plants, a Gargantuan plant as four, and a Colossal plant as eight. You can change the designated target or targets as a move action, as if directing an active spell.

Use the statistics for animated objects, except that plants smaller than Large don’t have hardness.

Animate plants cannot affect plant creatures, nor does it affect nonliving vegetable material.

Entangle: Alternatively, you may imbue all plants within range with a degree of mobility, which allows them to entwine around creatures in the area. This usage of the spell duplicates the effect of an entangle spell. Spell resistance does not keep creatures from being entangled. This effect lasts 1 hour per caster level.

Greater Spell Blossom (Sp): Select any 5 spells from the list below. You may create create a spell blossom for any one of the selected spells a number of times per day equal to Your Charisma Modifier. Additionally, you may expend a use of your Greater Spell Blossom to create an Improved Spell Blossom instead. These otherwise function like those created with your Spell Blossom ability.

Greater Spell Blossom Spells: Acid Fog: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/acid-fog/) Blocks vision, slows movement and damages creatures/objects.
Acid Pit: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/acid-pit/) Conjures an acid-containing pit.
Acidic Spray: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/acidic-spray/) 1d6/level acid damage plus 1 round of acid.
Antiplant Shell: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/antiplant-shell/) Keeps animated plants at bay.
Blight: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blight/) Withers one plant or deals 1d6/level damage to plant creature.
Changestaff: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/changestaff/) Your specially prepared quarterstaff becomes a treant-like creature.
Cloak of Dreams: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cloak-of-dreams/) You are surrounded by an aura of drowsiness.
Cloudkill: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cloudkill/) Kills 3 HD or less; 4-6 HD save or die, 6+ HD take Con damage.
Command Plants: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/command-plants/) Sway the actions of plant creatures.
Confusion: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/confusion/) Target become confused.
Corrosive Consumption: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/corrosive-consumption/) Acidic patch damages an opponent.
Curse Terrain: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/curse-terrain/) You curse the land with unnatural hazards.
Forgetful Slumber: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/forgetful-slumber/) One target of 10 HD or less falls asleep and loses memory.
Green Caress: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/green-caress/) Target slowly transforms into a plant.
Hungry Earth: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hungry-earth/) The ground attempts to pull creatures beneath its surface.
Hungry Pit: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hungry-pit/) Conjures a pit that crushes creatures trapped within.
Liveoak: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/liveoak/) Oak becomes treant guardian.
Plant Shape III: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/plant-shape-i/) Turns you into a Huge plant.
Poison: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/poison/) Touch deals 1d3 Con damage 1/round for 6 rounds.
Roaming Pit: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/roaming-pit/) Conjures a movable pit.
Serenity: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/serenity/) Peaceful feelings harm those attempting violence.
Siege of Trees: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/siege-of-trees/) Transforms Large trees into arboreal catapults of the same size.
Snake Staff: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/snake-staff/) Ordinary pieces of wood become snakes.
Solid Fog: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/solid-fog/) Fog obscures vision and impedes movement.
Suffocation: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/suffocation/) Extracts the air from target’s lungs.
True Seeing: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/true-seeing/) Lets you see all things as they really are.
Vicarious View: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/vicarious-view/) Plant a scrying sensor that you can use to spy on a creature, object, or location.
Vinetrap: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/vinetrap/) Vines burst to life in a radius around a target with a variety of effects.
Vitriolic Mist: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/vitriolic-mist/) Creatures attacking you take acid damage; you’re protected from acid.
Wall of Thorns: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/wall-of-thorns/) Thorns damage anyone who tries to pass.
Waves of Ecstasy: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/waves-of-ecstasy/) Pleasure stuns and staggers creatures.
Waves of Exhaustion: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/waves-of-exhaustion/) Several targets become exhausted.

Tree Stride (Sp): You may use Tree Stride as the spell using your Verdure level as your caster level. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

Tree Stride Spell:School conjuration (teleportation); Level druid 5, ranger 4; Elemental School wood 6

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF

EFFECT
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 hour/level or until expended; see text

DESCRIPTION
When you cast this spell, you gain the ability to step into a tree, magically infusing yourself with the plant. Once within a tree, you can teleport from that particular tree to another tree. The trees you enter must be of the same kind, must be living, and must have girth at least equal to yours. By moving into an oak tree (for example), you instantly know the location of all other oak trees within transport range (see below) and may choose whether you want to pass into one or simply step back out of the tree you moved into. You may choose to pass to any tree of the appropriate kind within the transport range as shown on the following table.

You may move into a tree up to one time per caster level (passing from one tree to another counts only as moving into one tree). The spell lasts until the duration expires or you exit a tree. Each transport is a full-round action.

You can, at your option, remain within a tree without transporting yourself, but you are forced out when the spell ends. If the tree in which you are concealed is chopped down or burned, you are slain if you do not exit before the process is complete.

Greater Woodland Sight: At 16th level, your ability to see through natural barriers is unbounded. You may ignore all concealment from natural plants & overgrowth including those generated by magical effects.

Greater Vine Field (Sp): You gain an additional use per day of your Vine field ability. Additionally, your Vine Field ability now acts as the spell Greater Black Tentacles. If you also possess the Friendly Entangle adaptation, you may designate which creatures are affected.

Greater Black Tentacles Spell:
School transmutation [good]; Level druid 6, sorcerer/wizard 6
Area 120-ft.-radius spread

DESCRIPTION
This spell causes tall grass, weeds, and other plants to swell into Gargantuan vines and tendrils that erupt from the ground, reaching for any structure or any creature of evil alignment, functioning like black tentacles except as noted. When you are determining the tendrils’ CMB, the tendrils use your caster level as their base attack bonus and have a +13 bonus due to their Strength. Any tendril that succeeds in grappling a foe deals 4d6+13 points of damage to the grappled creature. Additionally, the tendrils created by this spell can detect evil auras, as if they had spent 3 rounds observing all creatures and objects within the spell’s area using detect evil, and attack and impede the movement of only evil creatures, though they also attack any structures in their area. Each structure suffers a single attack each round; your caster level acts as the base attack bonus for these attacks, and the tendrils deal 4d6+13 points of damage on each successful attack. Creatures that lack evil auras are not attacked or impeded by this spell.

Verdant Entourage (Sp): The Verdure may summon a number of advanced wood golems to do her bidding. The golems willingly aid the Verdure in combat, perform specific missions, or serve as bodyguards. A Verdure may have a number of wood golems under her command from this ability equal to the lesser of her Charisma modifier or 4 (minimum 1). Any golems which are lost, may be replaced the next day.

Advanced Wood Golem:
CR 7
XP 3,200
N Medium advanced construct
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +5

DEFENSE
AC 23, touch 15, flat-footed 18 (+5 Dex, +8 natural)
hp 80 (8d10+36)
Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +7
DR 5/adamantine; Immune construct traits, magic
Weaknesses vulnerable to fire

OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee 2 slams +14 (2d6+6)
Special Attacks splintering

TACTICS
During Combat The golems pulverize and bludgeon anything that moves, taking turns with their splintering attacks to bring down foes.
Morale The golems fight until destroyed.

STATISTICS
Str 22, Dex 21, Con —, Int —, Wis 21, Cha 5
Base Atk +8; CMB +14; CMD 29 (34 vs. trip)

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Immunity to Magic (Ex):
A wood golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance, with the exception of spells and spell-like abilities that have the fire descriptor, which affect it normally. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.

Warp wood or wood shape slows a wood golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds (no save).
Repel wood drives a wood golem back 60 feet and deals 2d12 points of damage to it (no save).
A magical attack that deals cold damage breaks any slow effect on a wood golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A wood golem gets no saving throw against attacks that deal cold damage.

Splintering (Su):
As a free action once every 1d4+1 rounds, a wood golem can launch a barrage of razor-sharp wooden splinters from its body in a 20-foot-radius burst. All creatures caught within this area take 6d6 points of slashing damage (Reflex DC 14 halves). The save DC is Constitution-based.

ECOLOGY
Environment any
Organization solitary or gang (24)
Treasure none

A wood golem is carved from rare woods, assembled into a roughly humanoid body with articulated limbs. Their creators usually leave their bodies almost unfinished, with individual pieces of lumber and unworked wood apparent and obvious as part of their construction. A wood golem stands 6-1/2 feet tall and weighs 400 pounds.

Freedom of Movement (Su): The Verdure may move and attack normally, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the Verdure automatically fail. The Verdure automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

Pinnacle Adaptation (Su): At 20th level, the verdure develops a pinnacle adaptation. She immediately develops two normal adaptations, but also develops a third adaptation chosen from the list of Pinnacle Adaptations.

Kaskus
2017-01-02, 11:24 PM
Plant Adaptations:

Forms: When a plant is created using the Plant ability, it has a form. The default forms are Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing (referred to as "standard plants"). Some adaptations (marked "Plant Form"), allow plants to be created with different forms. Unless otherwise specified, a plant may have only one form, which must be chosen at the time it is created.

Unless otherwise noted, the save DC for any check called for by a Plant is equal to 10 + The Verdure's BMB + The Verdure's Charisma modifier.

Spitter (Plant Form):
You may choose to create a Spitter in place of the plant normally created with your Plant ability. Unlike standard plants, Spitters attack at range. A Spitter's attack has a range increment of 20 ft. (100 ft. maximum range) and may have a damage type of piercing or bludgeoning (chosen at the time of creation) only.

Burster (Plant Form):
You may choose to create a Burster in place of the plant normally created with your Plant ability. A Burster may not make an attack. Instead, whenever a creature comes within 5 ft. of a Burster, it pops open and releases a toxic gas. This gas fills a 15 ft. radius area around the Burster and persists for 1d6 rounds. Creatures exposed to the gas take acid damage equal to the Verdure's Plant Damage and must succeed at a Fortitude save or be sickened for 10 minutes. A Burster has no additional effects after it has released this gas but continues to occupy space until dismissed as a free action.

Legion (Plant Form):
You may enhance an existing plant, rather than summon a new plant. A plant that is enhanced in this way counts as a number of plants equal to 1 plus the number of times it has been enhanced. Increasing the number of plants a Legion counts as takes the same amount of time as summoning the additional plants would. A Legion Plant's statistics vary based on how many plants it is counted as according to the following table:
2 Plants: Large size, +2 to hit, Upgrade Damage Dice to d8, double hp
3 Plants: As above plus 2 attacks at full bonus, additional +1 to hit & Hardness increase to 10
4 Plants: As above plus triple hp, Upgrade Damage Dice to d10, huge size & Movement 20
5 Plants: As above plus third attack, forgo 3 regular attacks for double whirlwind attack, hardness 15 & Trample (Plant Damage).

Web Spinner (Plant Form):
You may create a Web Spinner with your Plant ability. Instead of a standard melee attack, Web Spinners throw webs. This is similar to an attack with a net but has a maximum range of 75 feet, with a range increment of 15 feet, and is effective against targets up to one size category larger than the web spinner. A creature that relies on wings to fly, cannot do so while entangled. An entangled creature can escape with a successful Escape Artist check or burst the web with a Strength check. Both are standard actions. Attempts to burst a web by those caught in it take a –4 penalty.
Special: This form may be combined with the Large Plant Form adaptation.

Fungal Plants (Plant):
When creating a Plant, you may choose to make it a fungus, emphasizing its chemical traits over its physical ones. Fungi gain 2 extra hit points per verdure level, but have an AC of only 10 + BMB. They take a -3 penalty to attack rolls, but add +2 to the save DC of any of their abilities.

Large (Plant Form):
You may choose to have a Plant created with your Plant ability be large in size. A large plant occupies and threatens space as a large creature.
Special: Large is compatible with some other plant forms as designated in their descriptions. This is an exception to the standard rule that plants may have only 1 form.

Mystic Attack (Plant):
Plants created with your Plant ability gain a +1 Enhancement bonus to their attacks and their attacks are considered to be made with magical weapons for purposes of what creatures they can affect and for bypassing damage reduction.

Bleed (Plant):
Wounds caused by your plants continue to bleed causing 1/4 Plant Damage (minimum 1) to the affected creature at the beginning of its turn. This bleeding can be stopped by a successful Heal skill check or through the application of any magical healing. Only plants which deal piercing or slashing damage may be enhanced in this way.

Combat Reflexes (Plant):
Your Plants gain the benefit of the Combat Reflexes feat, even if they do not qualify for it. All plants draw from one pool equal to your Charisma modifier. If you also possess the Combat Reflexes feat, you may expend your own attacks of opportunity to allow your plants additional attacks of opportunity.

Carnivorous (Plant Form):
You may create a Carnivorous Plant with your Plant ability. A Carnivorous Plant has a mouth and may make bite attacks (Note that bite attacks deal all three types of damage - bludgeoning, piercing & slashing.)

Swallower (Plant Form):
Pre-req: Carnivorous Plant Form adaptation
You may create a Swallower with your Plant ability. Treat a Swallower as a Carnivore but with the following abilities
Grab: If the Swallower hits a creature with size equal to or smaller than the Swallower, it may initiate a grapple against that creature as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity.
Swallow Whole: If a Swallower begins its turn with an opponent of the same size or smaller than the Swallower grappled, it can attempt a new combat maneuver check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey and the opponent takes bite damage. Each round thereafter, the swallowed creature takes acid damage equal to the Swallower's Bite Damage. A swallowed creature keeps the grappled condition, while the Swallower does not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of cutting damage required to get free is equal to 1/10 the Swallower’s total hit points), or it can just try to escape the grapple. The Armor Class of the interior of a Swallower is 10 + 1/2 its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity. If a swallowed creature cuts its way out, the Swallower cannot attempt to use its Swallow Whole ability again until the damage is healed. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, success puts it back in the Swallower’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again.

Energy Attack (Plant):
Choose a type of energy (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic). When creating a Plant with your Plant ability, you may designate the selected energy type as the damage type for that Plant and it is immune to damage from that type of energy.

Poisonous (Plant):
When a plant created with your Plant ability successfully damages a creature, the creature must succeed at a Fortitude save or take an additional 1d6 points of poison damage and be sickened for a number of rounds equal to the poison damage taken.

Persistent Poison (Plant):
Pre-req: Poisonous adaptation
The save DC for your plant's poison is increased by 2. Additionally, a creature affected by a plant's poison takes 2d6 poison damage the first round and must make a fortitude save or take 1d6 poison damage each successive round until their Fortitude save is successful. The sickened condition persists for 1d6 rounds after the successful save.

Entangling Plants (Plant/Entangle):
Pre-req: Any Entangle Adaptation
The area in a 10 ft. radius around each of your plants is affected as if by your Entangle ability.

Instant Plants (Plant, Pinnacle):
You may summon up to your plant limit using your Plant ability.

Entangle Adaptations:

Tenacious Entangle (Entangle):
Use your BMB in place of the spell level for determining the save DC for your Entangle ability.

Extra Entangle (Entangle):
You gain 3 additional uses of your Entangle ability per day.

Enlarge Entanglement (Entangle):
The radius of entanlgement created by your Entangle ability increases by 20 ft.

Entangling Stride (Entangle):
As you move, you leave an area of entanglement in your wake. You may choose to have any square you enter come under the effect of your Entangle ability. This does not require any expenditure of your Entangle ability but the effect ends on your next turn. The square you currently occupy is always considered under the effect of your Entangle ability if you so choose.

Aura of Entanglement (Entangle):
Pre-req: Entangling Stride
The area in a 15 ft. radius around you is always considered under the effect of your Entangle ability if you so choose.

Fertile Entanglement (Entangle):
You may use your Entangle ability even in places without existing plantlife and where plants would normally not grow such as underground caverns and dungeon halls.

Drag Down (Entangle):
If an entangled creature within an area affected by your Entangle ability fails its second save, it becomes grappled. You may direct the entangled area to attempt a pin as a move action against a creature grappled by an area under the effect of your Entangle ability. Use your CMB & CMD to determine the outcome of grapple checks.

Propelling Entanglement (Entangle):
The plants within your areas of entanglement help propel you along. When moving within an area of entanglement, your speed increases by 10.

Spell Garden (Blossom / Entangle):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
You expend a use of your Entangle ability as well as a use of your Improved Spell Blossom to create a Spell Garden. You select a single spell blossom you are able to create with your Improved Spell Blossom ability and infuse the Spell Garden with this effect. The area you may affect is the same as that which would be affected by your Entangle ability. Any creature that moves through any space within the Spell Garden must succeed at a reflex save at the same difficulty as your Entangle ability. If a creature fails its save, it is automatically targeted by the spell blossom effect selected when the spell garden was created. An affected creature gets a +2 bonus to its reflex save for each time it has been affected by the same spell garden.

Greater Spell Garden (Blossom / Entangle):
Pre-req: Spell Garden Adaptation, Greater Spell Blossom Class Feature
When creating a Spell Garden, you may expend a use of your Greater Spell Blossom ability in place of Improved Spell Blossom and infuse the spell garden with its effect.

Entangled Canopy (Entangle):
You cause trees and bushes within the area affected by your Entangle ability to grow and close in. Creatures within the area affected by your Entangle ability are considered to have concealment against any other creature 10 or more feet away. This does not impede movement beyond the normal effects of your Entangle ability.

Overgrowth (Entangle):
As a standard action, you may designate a 15x15 area adjacent to an area affected by your Entangle ability to be come affected as if by your Entangle ability. This area is treated as part of the area next to which it is created and the effect ends when the Entangle effect on the area to which it is attached ends.

Entangling Plants (Plant / Entangle):
Pre-req: Any Entangle Adaptation
The area in a 10 ft. radius around each of your plants is affected as if by your Entangle ability.

Entangled Dominion (Entangle / Dominion):
Pre-req: Aura of Dominion Class Feature
If an area effected by your Entangle ability also falls within your Aura of Dominion, Save DCs versus the effects of the area of entanglement are increased by 2. This includes DCs from effects added by adaptations such as spell garden or the strength DC for forcing your way through Wall of Thorns.

Controlled Entangle (Entangle / Dominion):
Pre-req: Entangled Dominion Adaptation
If your Aura of Dominion overlaps an area affected by your Entangle ability, you may extend the effects of your Aura of Dominion into the area affected by Entangle. If the Entangle effect ends, this effect ends with it.

Spontaneous Stride (Entangle, Pinnacle):
The Verdure may move from any point within an area which has been affected by her Entangle spell-like ability to any other point within an affected area as a Swift action. These areas need not be continuous nor do they need to be created with the same instance of Entangle.

Bear Fruit Adaptations:

Healing Fruit (Fruit):
You may expend one use of your Bear Fruit ability to cause fruit to grow, which possesses healing properties. You may distribute a number of d8s worth of healing equal to your BMB among any number of Healing Fruits up to a maximum of your BMB. A creature eating this fruit is healed the designated number of d8s in hit points. Healing fruits become inactive after 1 minute. When your BMB reaches 5, each d8 instead becomes 2d6. When your BMB reaches 10, they become 2d8 to a maximum of 30d8 at level 20.

Additional Bear Fruit (Fruit):
You gain an additional use of Bear Fruit per day.

Fortified Fruit (Fruit):
You may expend one use of your Bear Fruit ability to cause a plant to bear a single Fortified Fruit. When creating Fortified Fruit, select 1 attribute (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma). A creature eating this fruit gains a +4 enhancement bonus to the selected attribute. This effect lasts for a number of minutes equal to the Verdure's BMB. If the Verdure's BMB is 11 or higher, they may have this ability create 1 fruit per verdure level. Fortified fruits become inactive after 1 minute.

Merciful Fruit (Fruit):
Pre-Req: Healing Fruit Adaptation
You may expend a use of your Bear Fruit ability to create a Merciful Fruit, which when consumed, removes one of the following conditions: Fatigued, Shaken, Sickened or Staggered. You must designate which condition will be removed by the fruit when you use this ability but may select a different condition each time you use this ability.

Greater Merciful Fruit (Fruit):
Pre-Req: Merciful Fruit Adaptation
You add Dazed and Diseased to the list of conditions for which you may make a Merciful Fruit.
At BMB 7 you may also add Confused, Exhausted, Frightened and Nauseated.

Revealing Blossom (Fruit):
You may expend one use of your Bear Fruit ability to cause a plant to grow a Purging Blossom. The blossom immediately expels a cloud of pollen which acts as the spell Glitterdust.

Corpse Seed (Fruit):
You may expend one use of your Bear Fruit ability to cause a plant to bear a Corpse Fruit. A Corpse Fruit appears as a shriveled and rotten version of the fruit normally produced by such a plant and is not edible. When the seed from inside a Corpse Fruit is planted inside a corpse, it revives as a Yellow Musk Zombie under your control. A Yellow Musk Zombie created with a Corpse Seed goes dormant after 24 hours but may be reactivated with another Corpse Seed.

Golden Apple (Fruit, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may use your Bear Fruit ability to create a golden apple from either the tree of life or the tree of knowledge. The effects of the apple end after 24 hours and a single creature can only be affected by one Golden Apple in a 24 hour period, regardless of which type.
Tree of Life: Any creature that consumes a Golden Apple of Life is affected as if by the Greater Age Resistance spell. Should they die during that time, they are also immediately affected as if by the Breath of Life spell; however, instead of its normal healing, the spell carries the effect of a maximized Heal spell, and can restore those affected by death effects.
Tree of Knowledge: Any creature that consumed a Golden Apple of Knowledge is granted a sixth sense. One time while under the effect of a Golden Apple of Knowledge, the affected creature may gain a +25 insight bonus on any single attack roll, combat maneuver check, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw. Alternatively, they can apply the insight bonus to their AC against a single attack (even if flat-footed). Activating the effect doesn't take an action; the affected creature can even activate it on another character's turn. The affected creature must choose to use this ability before they make the roll it is to modify. Once used, the effect ends.

Companion Adaptations

Talented Companion (Companion):
Your companion gains a bonus feat.

Plant Bearer (Companion):
You may target your companion with your Plant ability. The plant functions normally except that it occupies the same space as your companion and moves along with the companion.

Evolved Companion (Companion):
You may apply a 1-point eidelon evolution to your companion. You may select this adaptation multiple times but you must select a different 1-point evolution each time.

Companion Stride (Companion):
Pre-req: Entangling Stride
Your Companion gains the benefit of the Entangling Stride Adaptation.

Hive (Companion):
Your companion is host to a hive of insects that bite and sting those in its immediate vicinity. Treat this as an aura that extends 5 ft around the companion. Foes within the affected area must make a Fortitude save each round or gain the sickened condition. The difficulty of this save is 10 + Your effective Druid Level. The sickened condition persists as long as they remain within the aura and for 1 additional round after leaving.

Improved Hive (Companion):
The radius of your companions Hive ability increases from 5 feet to 10. In addition to the normal effects, foes within the affected area of the companion's hive also take 1d6 damage for every 4 HD the companion possesses.

Life Link (Companion):
As long as her companion is within 60 feet of the Verdure, she may choose to evenly split hit point damage received by her companion or herself (including that dealt by special abilities) between them. The Verdure may make this choice each time damage would be dealt to her or her companion. Forms of harm that do not involve hit points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, level draining, and death effects, are not affected. Similarly, the Verdure may choose to evenly split any hit points healed by an effect or ability targeting herself or her companion.

Roots (Companion):
As a standard action, your companion may activate this ability, sending tendrils into the ground. The companion may not move while this ability is in effect. While this ability is active, the companion may make a single attack at its highest BAB against each opponent within 10 ft. The companion may also make attacks of opportunity against opponents within 10 ft. of it.

Twin Companion (Companion, Pinnacle):
Your companion splits in two, creating a permanent, perfect clone of itself with statistics and abilities identical to itself. Any adaptations that modify your companion affect the twin as well.

Dominion Adaptations:

Bolstering Dominion:
Any creature with the plant type within your dominion that you control as well as Plants summoned by your Plant ability gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. Additionally, you may summon a plant using your Plant ability anywhere within your dominion even if it is outside the normal range.

Destructive Dominion (Dominion):
Once per round as a free action you may designate any number of unattended manufactured objects and structures within your Dominion to take 1 point of damage per Verdure level you possess. This damage bypasses hardness.

Dominating Tendrils (Dominion):
As a swift action, you may designate an unoccupied 5ft. x 5ft. area (1 "square") within your aura of dominion to grow dominating tendrils. When unoccupied, these spaces do not appear any different than the rest of your dominion. However if occupied, tendril-like vines rise up and grasp the target, holding them in place. An affected creature gains the grappled condition and may attempt to break free by attempting a CMD check or Escape Artist check with a DC equal to 10 + Your BMB + Your Charisma Modifier.

Lashing Vines (Dominion):
Vines spring forth from the ground to punish enemies that dare enter your dominion. As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack at your full BAB against any target within your Aura of Dominion. This attack deals damage equal to your Plant Damage.

Parasitic Dominion (Dominion):
As a standard action, any number of living creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1d4 points of damage. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained in this way up to your Verdure level plus your charisma modifier.

Safe Space (Dominion):
Pre-req: Greater Spell Blossom Class Feature with Wall of Thorns as a selected option.
As a full-round action while maintaining your aura, you may cause its edges to coalesce into a 5-foot thick wall of thorns. This wall remains as long as the space it occupies continues to be affected by your aura even if the radius of your aura changes in the meantime. You may designate parts of the edges to be unaffected by this if you so choose.

Sculpted Dominion (Dominion):
You may reshape your dominion, only to trap intruders within. You may designate any number of squares within your Dominion to be excluded from its area, as long as the remaining area remains as a contiguous area containing you. Additionally as a swift action, you can designate the area affected by your Aura of Dominion to remain stationary rather than change as you move so long as you remain within its boundaries. If you leave the area affected by your Aura of Dominion, its effects immediately end. You may reactivate your aura as a free action.

Verdant Sight (Dominion):
Pre-req: Woodland Sight Class Feature
You gain blindsight which operates within the bounds of your dominion.

Grasping Vines (Dominion):
As a move action, choose an unoccupied square within your Dominion. Lashing vines erupt from it, pulling a chosen creature within 10 feet into the chosen space. You must make a touch attack roll to hit with the vines, followed by a CMB check against the target to pull them. If you succeed, the target is immediately pulled into the chosen square.

Entangled Dominion (Entangle / Dominion):
Pre-req: Aura of Dominion Class Feature
If an area effected by your Entangle ability also falls within your Aura of Dominion, Save DCs versus the effects of the area of entanglement are increased by 2. This includes DCs from effects added by entangle adaptations such as spell garden or the strength DC for forcing your way through Wall of Thorns.

Controlled Entangle (Entangle / Dominion):
Pre-req: Entangled Dominion Adaptation
If your Aura of Dominion overlaps an area affected by your Entangle ability, you may extend the effects of your Aura of Dominion into the area affected by Entangle. If the Entangle effect ends, this effect ends with it.

Merge (Dominion, Pinnacle):
You gain the ability to merge with the area affected by your Aura of Dominion, leaving behind a signature mark at the center of your dominion. This mark is unique to each Verdure but may be difficult to differentiate from the regularly present plant life (Perception DC equal to 10 + Verdure Level + Charisma Modifier to notice). When using Merge, you literally become one with your dominion. As a move action you may merge into your dominion and may stay merged until you choose to rematerialize or your mark is dispelled. You may rematerialize at the center of your dominion as a move action. While merged, you may still use any of your senses or abilities as though you were in any square your dominion. If the mark at the center of your domain is dispelled, you are forcefully ejected and take 1d6 points of damage per round you were merged. For purposes of dispelling, treat the mark as the source of the Merge effect with a spell level equal to 1/2 your Verdure level and a caster level equal to your Verdure level.

Blossom Adaptations:

Late Bloomer (Blossom):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
When creating a spell blossom, you may specify 1–5 rounds. That many rounds after the activation of the spell blossom, its spell effect is triggered.Only Spell Blossoms which replicate area, personal, and touch spells can be affected by this adaptation. You may treat the verdure's level as 1 higher per round delayed for purposes of level dependent effects, including save difficulties.

Any decisions you would make about the delayed effect, including attack rolls, designating targets, or determining or shaping an area, are decided when the spell effect is triggered. Any effects resolved by those affected by the spell, including saving throws, are decided when the delay period ends.

A delayed Spell Blossom can be dispelled normally during the delay and can be detected normally with spells or abilities that can detect spell effects.

Hive Blossoms (Blossom):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
Add the following spells to those usable with Improved Spell Blossom: Summon Nature's Ally 3 (vermin only), Summon Swarm (spiders only), Control Vermin, Insect scouts, and Repel Vermin.
*If you possess the Greater Spell Blossom Class Feature, you may also add Giant vermin and Cape of Wasps to the list of spells for which Blossoms can be created with that ability.

Expanded Spell Blossom (Blossom):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
Select 5 spells from the Improved Spell Blossom list that you do not already know and add them to the list of spells with which you can use Improved Spell Blossom.
Special: If you possess the Greater Spell Blossom Class Feature, you may use this feat to add spells from that abilities list to your list of spells with which you can use that ability. This feat may be taken multiple times.

Spell Garden (Blossom / Entangle):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
You expend a use of your Entangle ability as well as a use of your Improved Spell Blossom to create a Spell Garden. You select a single spell blossom you are able to create with your Improved Spell Blossom ability and infuse the Spell Garden with this effect. The area you may affect is the same as that which would be affected by your Entangle ability. Any creature that moves through any space within the Spell Garden must succeed at a reflex save at the same difficulty as your Entangle ability. If a creature fails its save, it is automatically targeted by the spell blossom effect selected when the spell garden was created. An affected creature gets a +2 bonus to its reflex save for each time it has been affected by the same spell garden.

Greater Spell Garden (Blossom / Entangle):
Pre-req: Spell Garden Adaptation, Greater Spell Blossom Class Feature
When creating a Spell Garden, you may expend a use of your Greater Spell Blossom ability in place of Improved Spell Blossom and infuse the spell garden with its effect.

Spell Bouquet (Blossom, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may expend a use of your Greater Spell Blossom ability to create a Spell Bouquet containing a number of spell blossoms up to your charisma modifier which may be selected from any of the spell blossom effects you know from any of your spell blossom abilities. However, any given spell blossom may only be selected once. The bouquet may be activated in the same manner as a spell blossom but it triggers all of its effects simultaneously. if it targets a creature, they must make separate saves for each spell blossom effect that calls for a save.

Pinnacle Adaptations:

Note: These Pinnacle adaptations also appear in their respective adaptation lists but are repeated here for ease of reference.

Instant Plants (Plant, Pinnacle):
You may summon up to your plant limit using your Plant ability.

Spontaneous Stride (Entangle, Pinnacle):
The Verdure may move from any point within an area which has been affected by her Entangle spell-like ability to any other point within an affected area as a Swift action. These areas need not be continuous nor do they need to be created with the same instance of Entangle.

Spell Bouquet (Blossom, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may expend a use of your Greater Spell Blossom ability to create a Spell Bouquet containing a number of spell blossoms up to your charisma modifier which may be selected from any of the spell blossom effects you know from any of your spell blossom abilities. However, any given spell blossom may only be selected once. The bouquet may be activated in the same manner as a spell blossom but it triggers all of its effects simultaneously. if it targets a creature, they must make separate saves for each spell blossom effect that calls for a save.

Twin Companion (Companion, Pinnacle):
Your companion splits in two, creating a permanent, perfect clone of itself with statistics and abilities identical to itself. Any adaptations that modify your companion affect the twin as well.

Golden Apple (Fruit, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may use your Bear Fruit ability to create a golden apple from either the tree of life or the tree of knowledge. The effects of the apple end after 24 hours and a single creature can only be affected by one Golden Apple in a 24 hour period, regardless of which type.
Tree of Life: Any creature that consumes a Golden Apple of Life is affected as if by the Greater Age Resistance spell. Should they die during that time, they are also immediately affected as if by the Breath of Life spell; however, instead of its normal healing, the spell carries the effect of a maximized Heal spell, and can restore those affected by death effects.
Tree of Knowledge: Any creature that consumed a Golden Apple of Knowledge is granted a sixth sense. One time while under the effect of a Golden Apple of Knowledge, the affected creature may gain a +25 insight bonus on any single attack roll, combat maneuver check, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw. Alternatively, they can apply the insight bonus to their AC against a single attack (even if flat-footed). Activating the effect doesn't take an action; the affected creature can even activate it on another character's turn. The affected creature must choose to use this ability before they make the roll it is to modify. Once used, the effect ends.

Merge (Dominion, Pinnacle):
You gain the ability to merge with the area affected by your Aura of Dominion, leaving behind a signature mark at the center of your dominion. This mark is unique to each Verdure but may be difficult to differentiate from the regularly present plant life (Perception DC equal to 10 + Verdure Level + Charisma Modifier to notice). When using Merge, you literally become one with your dominion. As a move action you may merge into your dominion and may stay merged until you choose to rematerialize or your mark is dispelled. You may rematerialize at the center of your dominion as a move action. While merged, you may still use any of your senses or abilities as though you were in any square your dominion. If the mark at the center of your domain is dispelled, you are forcefully ejected and take 1d6 points of damage per round you were merged. For purposes of dispelling, treat the mark as the source of the Merge effect with a spell level equal to 1/2 your Verdure level and a caster level equal to your Verdure level.

Kaskus
2017-01-02, 11:29 PM
Plant Companions (Taken from Treesinger Archetype on Paizo site)

Each plant companion has different starting sizes, speed, attacks, ability scores, and special qualities. All plant attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus unless otherwise noted. Plant attacks add the plant's Strength modifier on the damage roll, unless it has only one attack, in which case it adds 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier. Some plant companions have special abilities, such as scent. Plant companions cannot gain armor or weapon proficiency feats, even as they advance in hit dice, and cannot use manufactured weapons at all unless their description says otherwise. Plant companions are otherwise treated the same as animal companions for determining what feats may be selected and applied to them.

As you gain levels, your plant companion grows in power as well. It gains the same bonuses that are gained by animal companions. Each plant companion gains an additional bonus, usually at 4th or 7th level, as listed with each plant choice. Instead of taking the listed benefit at 4th level, you can instead choose to increase the companion's Strength and Constitution by 2.


Carnivorous Flower
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 30 ft., climb 10 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (2d6); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2; Special Attacks rage (1/day, as the barbarian class feature for 6 rounds).

Crawling Vine
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack slam (1d4); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2; Special Attacks grab; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +1 natural armor; Attack slam (1d6); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks constrict 1d6.

Puffball (Floating Fungus)
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 20 ft., fly 60 ft. (average); AC +1 natural armor; Attack thorn (1d4 plus poison); Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6; Special Attacks poison (Frequency 1 round [6], Effect 1 Con damage, Cure 1 save, Con-based DC); Special Qualities low-light vision.
4th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2.

Sapling Treant
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack 2 slams (1d6); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7; Special Qualities double damage against objects, low-light vision.
4th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 slams (1d8); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.

Kaskus
2017-01-02, 11:52 PM
New Feats:

Extra Adaptation:
Pre-req: Adaptation Class Feature
Benefit: You gain one additional adaptation. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this adaptation.
Special: You can gain Extra Adaptation multiple times.

Extra Stride:
Pre-req: Verdant Stride Class Feature
Benefit: You gain one additional stride from the Verdure's list of stride available from the Verdant Stride class feature.
Special: You may only select this feat once.

---

Alternate Class Features:

Fungal Expanse (Sp):
You may designate an area with a radius of 40 feet, the center of which must be within 400 ft. of your position + 40 ft. per Verdure level as the target of this ability. The designated area sprouts mushrooms and fungus of all types which secrete a sticky tar-like substance and coat the entire surface of the affected area. Movement costs across the area are doubled and any prone creature in the area must succeed on a DC 10 Strength check to stand up.

Items not in use or in a creature's possession automatically become affected. A creature holding an affected item must use a full-round action to let go of the item, drop it, put it away, pick it up from the ground, or ready it for use.

A creature wielding an affected item gains a +5 circumstance bonus on opposed checks to avoid being disarmed. A creature wearing armor or clothing affected by this spell takes a -5 penalty on Escape Artist checks and on grapple checks made to resist or escape a grapple or to escape a pin.
This ability replaces Entangle


Fungal Plants (Su):
Your base Plant ability always operates as if under the effects of the Fungal Plants adaptation. You may give up an adaptation in order to gain the base version of the Plant ability.

Aniikinis
2017-01-28, 12:13 PM
I noticed that you only have a single Pinnacle adaptation are you going to be developing more or was that an oversight?
Also might I ask what the BMB is for?

aimlessPolymath
2017-01-28, 07:48 PM
Feedback!

First of all, class feature formatting:
Early on in your class features, you include the level at which the feature is gained:


Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Verdure may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion, however, still affect her.

Later on, though, it’s dropped:


Burst of Nettles (Sp): You may cast Burst of Nettles as the spell with a caster level equal to your class level a number of times per day equal to your charisma bonus (minimum 1).


More specific feedback:
-Orison Equivalent Plants: How long does it take to create the plants? The wording for several of these indicate that the plants are made use of in some way; perhaps mention how they are used in the description (i.e. fruits consumed to receive the benefit, etc). Example wording: “As a swift action, someone adjacent to or holding the plant can pick it, allowing them to cast the orison by making use of its products. If not used within one minute after picking, the products are rendered unusable”

-Bear Fruit: How many fruit are produced by one use? Directly replicating the spell is probably fine as a rule of thumb, though with the limited uses, this is one option that isn’t particularly overpowered if available at first level. Feels a bit out of place and gimmicky, though I haven’t seen the adaptations yet.

-Mystic Stride: I had to look this up. You may wish to directly copy the text of the feat.

-Plant Bond: I’m not sure that the player would ever pick carapace. An animal companion is great, and the class isn’t designed to go into melee. Most of it's options are surpassed by ordinary equipment- you're competing with +1 chain shirt armor for light armor at minimum, and +2 fullplate at the max, just at the level you get it.

-Spontaneous Stride and Merge: Reference the Entangle ability directly- “an area which you have affected by your Entangle spell-like ability”

You are slightly inconsistent with your uses/day of special abilities.
3+Cha/day: Entangle, Commune With Nature
Cha/Day: Burst of Nettles.
Level/Day: Animate Plants.
1/3 levels /day: Bear Fruit
I would replace Burst of Nettles (which has decent but non-scaling damage) with... something else, not sure what, and reduce Animate Plants and Commune with Nature(Animate Plants gives you actual soldiers beyond your normal plants, and Commune with Nature isn’t a staple combat feature in the same way that Entangle is) to Cha/Day.
Entangle looks like a staple combat feature, but you probably don't need it more than once or twice per battle, so it's fine as is.

More generally, Entangle is weirdly supported by your class- Spontaneous Stride and Merge are high-level options which could have been high-level adaptations, indicating that Entangle is a common combat option, but they’re the only class features which mention it (other than the indirect option of Mystic Stride. I would either give it a bit of support at lower levels, or scrap those features for something more general (so people who didn’t focus on it are OK), like a Dominate Plants ability, or Freedom of Movement or something.

Overall, pros: Very neat class, with far more plant-related features than I thought could ever exist. Interesting battlefield control options, between an entangle focus and plant animation.
Cons: Later abilities are mostly upgrades of existing ones- the class doesn't seem, on first glance, to scale up that well. Many class features are focused strongly on a particular sort of wilderness battle- one with plenty of difficult terrain, and lots of concealment caused by difficult terrain. Most of your main combat options are acquired at low levels, and don't change to any great extent later.


I’ll cover the adaptations as I get through them, going ability by ability.

Plant Adaptations:
-First of all, you need some kind of boilerplate language to explain Plant Forms and that they’re mutually exclusive. Maybe. Maybe they aren’t! The point is, I don’t know.
-Spitter: Looks fine.
-Burster: Is a Burster destroyed after it’s used? It looks like maybe. Fortitude save needs to scale with level. Nauseated for 10 minutes is incredibly brutal- did you mean sickened? Constitution damage is often nastier against the PCs (who expect to heal hit point damage after a fight) than enemies. If you’re removing Burst of Nettles from being a class feature, here’s where I’d put it.
-Constrictor: So... your Strength makes them better at grappling (better CMB)? That’s probably not what you want. Actually, you should clarify the attack bonus of the normal plants, too.
-Web Spinner: Does it throw the web or spin sticky sheets? If the first one, need to clarify the DC to escape. If the second one, significant overlap with Entangle.

Reach: Overlaps with Spitter. Other than a specific Constricter build, not worth it except for attacks of opportunity- for which see Combat Reflexes notes.
Ghost Touch: Weirdly specific. I’d replace with +1 enhancement bonus- you deal half damage to ghosts, but bypass DR/Magic.
Bleed: Okay, I guess. Should specify that it’s only for piercing/slashing damage. Also, needs the Heal check to cure- 15 is standard.
Combat Reflexes: Hoo boy. This is a great feature, but tracking it will be a pain- a separate round-by-round pool for each plant?. Also, it’s a bit of a pain for them to make attacks of opportunity in the first place. See my final notes on Plant.

Carnivorous: This should go with the other Plant Forms. This is almost strictly better than Constrictor, as far as I can see. Damage should be half acid, half bludgeoning. Need to adjust it to deal with Swallow Whole rules, which include references to the creature’s natural armor (which plants don’t have as written), a mouth (which plants don’t have as written, dealing damage equal to 1/10 the swallowing creature’s hit points (which, guess what?).

Energy Attack: This is needed to deal with DR, but is really strange when you think about it, especially with the naturalistic theme of the rest of the class. It’s good balance-wise, though. Plants should have immunity to the damage they deal.

Plant notes: A good staple, round-by-round ability, which may take a little while to get going.
Needs:
-Some form of statistics for the plants- a base AC and hit points. When someone says “okay, I cast burning hands on the plant” or “I swing my axe at it”, you need some rules ready for it.
-Some kind of mobility alteration: First thing I thought of when I saw Animate Plants. Uproote: Speed 20 ft as a Plant Form, k?
-Some ability to create multiple at once: otherwise, you’ll be a real slow starter. Say around 7th level or so.
-If you’re allowing attacks of opportunity, make them come from your pool. Otherwise, tracking will be a pain in the ass. Even if you do, the high base damage of plants may make it a bad idea- I’m not sure about how to balance that. Combat Reflexes is OK if applied to the pool as a whole.
-Explicit attack bonus- say your level + your Wisdom bonus. Also, add Wisdom to damage or you will be very sad at 1st level.


Entangle Adaptations:
Tenatious Entangle: So good, it’s a always-pick if you have the choice. Should be made into part of the class feature. Seriously, this is a 14-point swing at high levels.

Wall of Thorns: Good battlefield control option, love it. Makes sense as a “reimagining” of how you use Entangle. You can just reference your level directly instead of BMB.

Entangled Bridge: That’s not how the “spread” area of Entangle works. It does that already.

Extra Entangle: Should maybe be a feat instead? Unless you’re burning the uses on some ability, it won’t come up.

Enlarge Entanglement: Nice, simple “upgraded power” option.

Friendly Entanglement: Another “must-pick”. Makes Entangle a huge force-multiplier, maybe unbalanced, but I love it. Again, level-select it.

Fertile Entanglement: Looks fine, a definite pick for a specialist or at higher levels.

Thorny Entangle: It’s Thorny Entanglement. And it’s... odd? First of all, you need to specify the right ability score modifier, but much like Mystic Stride, it would benefit from having the text included in the ability.

Entangled Reach: Another thing that’s really a specialist pick. Keep in mind, you only get 10 of these, and I can’t see myself taking it for one of them. I might change it up for an option that lets you drag people into the area- for example, “as a standard action, you may pull someone within 10 ft of the effect in. If they fail a XXX save, they are immediately dragged 10 ft closer to the area of effect, and are immediately affected as though they failed the save”.

Drag Down: This is really brutal. Really, really, brutal.


Entangle Thoughts: The options here are a mix between situational and “must buy now”. Notes;
-Many class features mention the “zone of entanglement”. You can reference “the area of your Entangle class feature”.
-It needs to scale with level directly, otherwise Tenatious Entangle is stupid necessary.
-You may wish to add more active interaction with the effect. As it is, once laid down, the effect is pretty noninteractive. Something like what’s mentioned in Entangled Reach is a good option. The existing Wall of Thorns option is also good.


Healing Fruit: This is a nice heal! A good upgrade to healing options. You might want to upgrade it to Cure Critical Wounds at high levels, but a good, solid option.

Grenade: It’s nice, and you can give it to other people.Save DC included, which is good. That said, damage is low- lower than that of your Plants. If upped to 1/2 level in d6, I’d be perfectly happy with it.

Suicide Bombers: Haha, they’re great! This is super neat! Make sure to note that even if they miss, the target still takes splash damage, and if destroyed, they still detonate.

Ranged Bear Fruit: I’m pretty sure this doesn’t do what you want to do, because as-is, it’s near useless other than in combination with Suicide Bombers.

Additional Bear Fruit: This is the only ability where “extra use” is an option I would consider, and that’s because it’s so limited.

Fortified Fruit: Good pick (heh). Especially notable is the fact that you can do multiple at once at higher levels (mass Bull’s Strength?).

Buoyant Fruit: This is incredibly specific. I don’t think it will ever come up.

Curative Fruit: A neat option, but rather specific. If you want condition removal, you might look at a paladin’s Mercies for effects to remove.

Purging Blossom: This is bizarre as an option, not in the least because invisibility purge is normally an evocation. Glitterdust is a more appropriate spell, especially with the plant theme. I might add language about the flower releasing pollen “when crushed or impacted against a sharp surface, such as when thrown”.

Corpse Seed: I like it. Might make it zombies only, in honor of the yellow musk creeper. You could even replicate yellow musk zombies directly- just mention that they have the plant type instead.

Bear Fruit notes:
On first glance, looked like a neat ability, held back because of prohibitively limited uses per day. On further inspection, I found that the limited uses were necessary to balance the higher-level spells made available by the alterations. As a “utility/debuff spellcaster” set of options, I think it does well, but players will rapidly find themselves running out of uses if they try to make use of this in combat. While I love the idea of the suicide bombers, it might be better to replace them with one of the “cloud” spells (like stinking cloud), and give the suicide bombs to one of the Plant builds (burster + moving plants, yeah!) Also, I really, really, want a bear pun somewhere- perhaps the Constitution version of Fortified Fruit.

I’ve already expressed my comment on Carapace as an option for a very spellcastery class. With that in mind, assuming I am attempting to make a warrior-type:

Vines: Looks neat, I guess. Unfortunately, they aren’t masterwork, so you can’t enchant them for later use, and you can’t full-attack with them, either. They are reach weapons, so the verdure’s lack of hit points doesn’t matter as much. A nice backup option if you could enchant them- something to do with your standard actions later on.

Thorns: Maybe. Maybe on a heavy-armor build. I would be more likely to pick them if they had some form of retributive damage- see Bramble Armor, the Plant domain 6th-level cleric power. Armor spikes just aren’t great. Also see enchanting problem.

Vampiric: This looks nice- up to 10 hit points per attack? Assuming I’m reading it right- slight wording problem on “convert up to half your verdure level into hit points”. Neat option, would go for it with thorns but not vines due to aforementioned full-attack problem

Reinforced Carapace: This is precisely 6 points of carapace points, which is OK. Can you take it multiple times? You probably shouldn’t give full value if you do, because I would just optimize for it all the way.

Camouflage: The class didn’t look like it was stealth-specialized- didn’t even realize Stealth was a class skill. Would advise synergy with Entangle- perhaps an additional +2.

Energy Resistance: Not sure why you gated this. Does it really work against fire?

Automatic Stabilize: This looks pretty over-specific, especially since I’m not sure what a “death check” is. Did you mean stabilization check? That’s not great, but you should write it as “stabilize automatically”. Did you mean saving throw against a death effect? That’s better, but also specific (although if you need it, you’ll be really glad you had it)

Acidic Gauntlets: This is an odd pick. A really odd pick. It’s once per day, the spell is a line so probably won’t catch more than two or three creatures, but it’s pretty good damage. It’s just... odd.

Prehensile Vines: A bit of utility, I guess? I think I remember seeing this as a feat. Can you wield weapons with them?

Photosynthesis: You don’t actually need this that badly- Vampiric heals more than that multiple times per round. Still, free healing is pretty OK.

Medium/Heavy Carapace: Doesn’t exist, despite being mentioned in Carapace section. When you do, should give appropriate proficiency.

Carapace notes: The options are better and more interesting than I expected, but aren’t great. A couple of 1/day abilities (one good, one not), a couple healing options, less defense than I expected. Some things this needs:
-Weapons should be masterwork so you can enchant them.
-Some sort of interaction with existing abilities. Give your plants +2 AC while you’re adjacent or let them take damage for you, gain +2 AC when in your Entangle zone, let your Bear Fruit abilities grow goodberries from your carapace instead of healing via Vampiric, etc.

Advance Companion: Sure. Gives about 1.5 HD and attendant benefits, 2/3 of a pt of Str/Dex, 2/3 of a skill, 2/3 of a feat, and about 4/3 points of natural armor about 2/3 of a bonus feat. In combination with the normal benefits you get from this level, from this level to the last, you earn about 2 HD, a point of Str/Dex, a new skill, 2 points of natural armor, a new feat, etc. It’s a strong option, probably too strong in

Talented Companion: Good, but in comparison to Advance Companion, isn’t that great.

Plant Bearer: I think this is meant to have the plant move along with the companion, which is a great ability which I think is really cool, but should be made explicit.

Evolved Companion: This is a decent default option. Should clarify that you can take it multiple times.

Reinforced Companion: Covered by Improved Natural Armor option of Evolved Companion. Also 2/3 of it is covered by Advanced Companion.

Companion Stride: Decent option, except that it’s covered by the Entangle adaptation in most situations where it will come up.

Poisonous Companion: Eh. Too little damage to matter in virtually all circumstances. Puffball deals more than this from (metaphorical) level 1.

Hive: Very nice option for combat. Include the duration of the condition, though, or become the next Dread Necromancer.

Roots: VERY nice option for combat. Love it.

Improved Hive: A bit underwhelming. Up it to 1d6 damage at minimum to bring it in line with swarm damage.

Overall, the companion options are pretty varied. A number are underwhelming but useful. Advance Companion possibly overshadows many of the other picks due to the power of animal companion benefits. Also, the build appears somewhat underwhelming compared to Entangle/Bear Fruit/Plant options.

Lily Pad Stride: I had to look this up. Ultimately, it’s pretty much water walking- only relevant in some campaigns.

Entangling Stride: I like this. I really like this. It’s a good way to make use of Entangle outside

Parting Stride: Good option for teamwork, but is as specialized as Woodland Stride itself.

Vertical Stride: I’m not sure why the “begin and end” term is included, but it looks good. Perhaps a Climb bonus, or a maximum Climb DC (note that DCs are partially based on available handholds or footholds, going by the example DCs for Climb).

Canyon Stride: You may need to clarify “pass over”. Other than that, looks neat if somewhat limited.

Arboreal Stride: Does “reasonable proximity” mean within reach, or from the ground?

Giant Stride: I like this. Does it combo with Entangling Stride like I think it does?

Bridging Stride: Looks fine.

Improved Lilly Pad Stride: This is pretty awful as an option.

Beanstalk: This is an odd option, and might need to go in Plant. Reminds me of Levitate. You may wish to rewrite the growth # limit with a height limit for simplicity. At higher levels, maybe allow the stalk to bend, giving limited flight options. (wording: You can fly with a speed of 20 ft, as long as you remain within X ft of the original top of the beanstalk)

Gliding Stride: I like it. Does it combo with Entangling Stride like I think it does?

Overall: Around 4-5 of these are worthwhile. Around 4 need to be trimmed, because they give movement options which are extremely limited. I’m calling out Lilly Pad Stride + the improved version, Canyon Stride, and to a lesser extent Vertical/Parting/Arboreal stride, all of which give movement options within a highly limited environment. If you take these, the most likely scenario in which they turn out to be useful is one engineered by the DM for that exact purpose. That said, the remainder are highly synergistic powers which encourage thought and plannning. I’m calling out Beanstalk and Entangling Stride as particularly cool choices for shaping the battlefield.


EDIT: Just reread your questions, noticed you knew about the plant stats issue. I suggest level/2 x (4 + Charisma or Wisdom), AC of 10 + 3/4 level + Cha or Wisdom, always fails Reflex saves, both plant and object immunities. This roughly corresponds to one Plant hit die per two levels, and (assuming a stat bonus of +3 or higher) should shield the plants from roughly one level-appropriate blasting spell (which deal about 3.5 points per level). Attack bonus should be approximately your level + an ability score, which corresponds to full BAB plus an ability score. You want this upgrade from 3/4 BAB to keep up with the extra attack bonus from magic weapons that most people will have.

Hardness, if included, shouldn't be more than a stat bonus's worth- wood has pretty low hardness by default.

re: Beanstalks: In addition to my existing notes on the adaptation, stats should pretty much match above, possibly with significantly increased base hit points to deal with (since a) it has more mass to hold you up, and b) if it's destroyed, you can take a bunch of falling damage)

re: Carapace adaptations and points: What are your goals with carapace points? On first glance, they seem to be a way to measure the quantitative AC advantage granted by the carapace. Is that accurate? If so, then I think that writing adaptations as qualitative upgrades to the carapace is fine.

re: Dead levels and the presence/absence thereof: Yes, you should either adjust adaptations to make them more significant at high level, or put some class feature in those slots. One of the most notable aspects of the adaptations is that virtually all of them are available from level 2, right from the beginning. By level 8, you've probably got all the adaptations you want to optimize a given class feature (see: Tenacious Entangle/Friendly Entanglement/Drag Down combo), or Advance Companion 2x on the Carnivorous Flower + Roots, etc, and might branch out a bit into something useful but less relevant. By level 14, you're really reaching for something relevant at your level- virtually none of the adaptations scale with level. One thing that the Rogue class does to mitigate this is the inclusion of Advanced Talents at higher levels, which mean that new, relevant talent options become available. Otherwise, Rogue 10 would be scraping the bottom of the barrel for options. You have a little of this with Wall of Thorns, but not enough.

Big question: Do Plants occupy their square?

Southern Cross
2017-02-05, 10:52 PM
I agree with the previous poster. I'd also recommend more healing options, such as a fruit which when consumed, acts as a Heal spell, plus fruits that restore abilities and levels.
Also, you seem to be missing the promised list of Pinnacle Adaptations.

Kaskus
2017-02-12, 01:53 PM
First: Thank you Aniikinis, Southern Cross and especially aimlessPolymath!

I have been away from the boards for a bit so just saw this today! I had thought this thread was dead. I need to re-read and analyze the feedback and will respond shortly. Thank you again!

Kaskus
2017-02-12, 02:04 PM
I noticed that you only have a single Pinnacle adaptation are you going to be developing more or was that an oversight?
Also might I ask what the BMB is for?

I struggled with coming up with appropriate (theme and power-wise) pinnacle adaptations. My original goal was to have at least one per category (plant, carapace, entangle, companion, fruit). After I absorb the feedback from aimlessPolymath, I will take another swing at it. I also have more regular adaptations but presented what I thought were the best 10 in each category.

BMB is "Base Magical Bonus." Check out Trailblazer for how it works. I have seen similar house rules elsewhere as well. I meant to remove that to prevent confusion but it appears I forgot.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-12, 03:50 PM
I've thought about plant statistics.
You want 2x level in HP per plant at early levels at least, increasing to 4x level at later levels. Hardness (if any) should be Charisma bonus, or something similar. AC should be given by size (medium), dexterity(+0?), and natural armor (2 base, based off barkskin's AC bonus, increasing by 3/4 level maybe?).
Really, attacks aren't what the plants will worry about. It's area effects, which can clear out many plants at once.
Attacks will (on average) kill one plant per hit at low levels, although at higher levels it can take 2-3. However, a full attack can still take out multiple. That's OK, actually, since the class can hose melee combatants with entangle.
Area effects do an average of 1d6 per level, i.e. 3.5/level. However, against objects, they deal half damage, requiring an average of 2 spells to take down plants at low levels. At higher level, you can't rely on this as easily, as higher level casters will likely have the right damage type to hurt the plants. The HP increase will help take care of this. You may wish to up it to 6/level eventually, protecting against empowered spells, which could be common for blaster-types, or require them to take the energy resistance/immunity adaptation to deal with these kinds of threats.

Edit: Also, would you mind keeping a changelog? It will make future commentary easier.

Kaskus
2017-02-12, 03:58 PM
I made some changes to the opening post taking feedback into account. Cleaned up some language and finally renamed "orison equivalent" to "spell blossom," which I like much more.

Added the level at which each ability is gained to its description.

Spell Blossom: Now also includes mechanics for how long it takes and how it is used. I actually originally planned for this to be just a flavorful way of explaining normal orisons but i really liked the idea that the plants could be used by others. Question: Should I specify where the blossom is created? in the Verdure's hand? At a point she touches? On a plant that she touches? What are your thoughts on this?

Bear Fruit: Added how much fruit is created (same as goodberry spell by default). The mundane fruit / bloom ability is mostly there for flavor but has some utility as well. Stuck somewhere with no food? Use this to make mundane fruit which can be eaten. No magical benefits but you wont starve. Visiting a village that has had crops ruined by the BBEG's plague? Use this to cause them to fruit again, saving the village from starvation and gaining their good will. I can see a lot of RP opportunity with the mundane usage.

Mystic Stride: added verbiage to explain its benefits without additional research needed by the reader.

Plant Bond - Carapace: This actually came from another class I had begun working on when I played 1st edition and never fully developed. I was struggling to come up with an Option 2 for Plant bond and then remembered this idea and tacked it on. I really like that the pathfinder core classes have this sort of binary flavor option for each one and wanted to include that in my class as well. I had considered making a separate martial class based completely around the carapace idea and fleshing it out more. What do you think of that and what would make a good alternate plant bond as a replacement?

Spontaneous Stride / Merge: I changed the language as suggested. I intended for these various abilities to work with all entanglement created by the Verdure including that from entangling stride, etc. and am worried that the current language reads as only interacting with entanglement created by the main entangle ability. Thoughts?

Burst of Nettles: What about an "Improved Spell Blossom" ability that gives several spells as options here? Additional blossoms could be put in some of the other "dead" levels as well and it would be a good space for new adaptations. What do you think of that and what parameters should spells available fall within?

Regarding the support of entangle in general by the class: the ability to use, manipulate and interact with Entangle was the original inspiration for the class. I came across the Mystic Stride feat and thought it would be cool to have a character that could put down entangles and then roll through them with impunity while enemies could not.

I will start going through the notes on the adaptations next...

Edit: Made some changes to the Plant Adaptations...

Added verbiage to the Plant ability to be more specific about forms. Hopefully this is clearer now?

Added explanation of what happens after a burster bursts. The effects came from the "Deadly Gas" environmental hazard (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/campaignSystems/exploration.html), which uses the Nauseated condition. I am fine with Sickened for balance-sake. Alternatively, perhaps this could be a higher level form and the Burst of nettles version could be the first iteration?

Constrictor: using the characters BAB & CMB was initially done for simplicity so the character and the plants all use the same stats and nothing extra has to be calculated. Do you think the extra work is an okay trade off for the abilities themselves to make more sense?

Web spinner: As originally written, it does both (see universal monster rules) but I think just shooting webs is better. I have modified the description to reflect this and included the info directly rather than referencing the universal monster rule.

Reach: One use of this I saw was for more synergy / use in battlefield control. Its a larger area to cover for threatening AOOs and also for flanking support. Do you think that is too specialized?

Ghost Touch: I had forgotten that regular magic weapons could affect incorporeal creatures. I am not a big fan of generic magic weapons but this makes sense here. Changed to Mystic Attack.

Combat Reflexes: changed to draw from a communal pool and added synergy with Combat Reflexes feat.

Carnivorous: This IS better than Constrictor because it is an upgrade to that form (Requires constrictor as a pre-req). I have two thoughts on how to adress this though.
1: Make Constrictor into a base "Carnivore" that has a bite attack and the Grab ability (free grapple on successful bite). Then make an upgrade form that adds Swallow Whole.
2: Leave constrictor as is and add both Grab and Swallow Whole to the Carnivore.
I am leaning towards the first solution. What do you think?

Energy Attack: added immunity to energy damage from same energy type. Also - see http://freemind93.deviantart.com/art/WideAwake-Plants-520309318 for some examples of what they might look like.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-12, 05:52 PM
Spell Blossom: Now also includes mechanics for how long it takes and how it is used. I actually originally planned for this to be just a flavorful way of explaining normal orisons but i really liked the idea that the plants could be used by others. Question: Should I specify where the blossom is created? in the Verdure's hand? At a point she touches? On a plant that she touches? What are your thoughts on this?
I like the new wording.
Plant creation should be whatever you like; it makes relatively little difference to balance, but more to consistency. Growing a plant from nothing is closely in-line with the Plant ability, while requiring existing plants is closer to Entangle.

Bear Fruit: Good change- works OK as a flavor ability due to its situational uses.

Mystic Stride Cool.

Plant Bond - Carapace: Carapace is... okay. It's not a great option, for a number of main reasons.
-The focus on personally armoring yourself doesn't work well in a battlefield control, minion oriented class.
-The armor itself doesn't stack up well against relevant magic items without high investment; by comparison, the Plant Companion is good even if you don't invest in it, as a disposable body, to provide flanking for your allies, etc.

Spontaneous Stride / Merge: You can partially solve this by having those abilities reference the Entangle class feature, I think- I'm not actually sure if it's that much of a problem. Merge needs to mention the action to unmerge.

Burst of Nettles: What about an "Improved Spell Blossom" ability that gives several spells as options here? Ooh, yeah! Spell parameters are basically whatever you want to justify as being plant-powered; this would be a good place to move Lilly Pad Stride. I like this change.



Added verbiage to the Plant ability to be more specific about forms. Hopefully this is clearer now? Just need to specify whether or not plant forms are exclusive (one at a time). Wording could be: "Certain adaptations are designated Plant Forms. You may not apply more than one of these adaptations to a plant at once. You make this decision as you animate the plant."

The effects came from the "Deadly Gas" environmental hazard (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/u...ploration.html), which uses the Nauseated condition. I am fine with Sickened for balance-sake. Alternatively, perhaps this could be a higher level form and the Burst of nettles version could be the first iteration? Nauseated is just way too brutal- it basically limits you to move actions only. You could use the marsh version (2d6 bludgeoning, or 4d6 fire if there's open flame in the area) instead of the desert version, if you like.


Constrictor: using the characters BAB & CMB was initially done for simplicity so the character and the plants all use the same stats and nothing extra has to be calculated. Do you think the extra work is an okay trade off for the abilities themselves to make more sense? Just indicate that plants use Level + Cha(or w/e) for attack rolls and CMB checks. If you only use one check for all things, it should be fine.

Web spinner: Looks good.

Reach: As plants aren't technically creatures, whether they can flank is undefined. AoOs are a nice benefit, but can stack up to be pretty brutal, especially given that you have multiple plants all making xd6 attacks. Situationally powerful in an AoO build, but otherwise inferior to Burster. You might change this to the ability to make your plants Large- this doesn't affect attacks, just AC (net -2), size, and reach, making them useful blockers.

Ghost Touch: I had forgotten that regular magic weapons could affect incorporeal creatures. I am not a big fan of generic magic weapons but this makes sense here. Changed to Mystic Attack. Change looks good and will come up way more often. Not being able to overcome magic DR is way worse at higher levels. Also, here's something (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/#Overcoming_DR) you might want to houserule away...

Combat Reflexes: Pool looks good. Combat Reflexes synergy is OK, although maybe adjust it to "if you have Combat Reflexes, you can also expend your own attacks of opportunity to allow your plants to make more attacks of opportunity".

Carnivorous: A bite attack does feel appropriate, and combining it with Grab is fine.

Energy Attack: Looks good. Like the image!

One thing you could look at is including bits and pieces of some abilities in other adaptations, i.e. a plant adaptation which makes the area around the plants affected by Entangle, an AC upgrade to your armor when in Entangle, the ability to carry a Plant which you animated on your armor, etc. (note that the combination of all three of these powers makes the AC upgrade auto-on, and you carry Entangle with you as you go, which is neat).

Some examples:
Entangle + Plant: Plants emit an area of entanglement, OR Plants gain defensive or offensive benefits in areas of entanglement.
Plant + Bear Fruit: You can expend a use of Bear Fruit as you create a plant adjacent to you. If you do, the plant is powered up.
Entangle + Bear Fruit: You can expend a use of Bear Fruit as you use Entangle. If you do, it's powered up.
Plant + Carapace: Carry a plant with you on your Carapace.
Entangle + Carapace: Enhanced defense in Entangle zones.
Bear Fruit + Carapace: Whenever you create a fruit with Bear Fruit which provides a benefit upon being eaten, you can instead instantly gain the benefit if you're wearing your Carapace.
Entangle + Companion: Your Companion is powered up in an area of Entanglement.
Plant + Companion: Your Companion is also a Plant, gaining the benefits (in some form) of being one.
Bear Fruit + Companion: Whenever you create a fruit with Bear Fruit which provides a benefit upon being eaten, you can instead instantly grant the benefit to your Companion.
Entangle + Stride: You have this already in Entangling Stride.
Plant + Stride: You can Tree Stride from one plant to another, maybe.
Bear Fruit + Stride: Haste fruit? Not much Stride involvement there. People who eat your fruit gain the benefit of Stride, possibly- limiting it somewhat.
Carapace + Stride: idk
Companion + Stride: idk


On Pinnacle adaptations:
Merge is actually pretty appropriate for a pinnacle adaptation of Entangle or Stride.
Spontaneous Stride is ditto, but for Stride only.

On an alternative to Carapace:
Perhaps something area-based, focusing on the entangle-y aspects of the class over the plant-y aspects. Something slower and more control focused over the aggression of having a minion out already?
Say...
Domain (Su): A Verdure who spreads their awareness (rather than focusing it in one plant) gains the ability to emit an aura of growth, gradually taking control of an area. They begin emitting the aura at a range of 20 ft as a move action, and can maintain it as a move action each round. In each round they maintain it, it grows 10 ft in radius, to a maximum of 10 ft per verdure level. In each round they fail to maintain it, it shrinks by 10 ft. When it drops below 20 ft, it disappears. The aura has the following traits:
-The area within it is filled with plant life which has no mechanical benefit, except that it allows for spells like entangle to function.
-At your option, chosen targets within the area take 1d4 point of piercing damage whenever they move more than half their speed. This damage increases to 1d6 points at 10th level, 1d8 points at 15th level, and 2d6 points at 20th level.
Or some other kind of penalty.

Kaskus
2017-02-13, 01:19 AM
Domain (Su): A Verdure who spreads their awareness (rather than focusing it in one plant) gains the ability to emit an aura of growth, gradually taking control of an area. They begin emitting the aura at a range of 20 ft as a move action, and can maintain it as a move action each round. In each round they maintain it, it grows 10 ft in radius, to a maximum of 10 ft per verdure level. In each round they fail to maintain it, it shrinks by 10 ft. When it drops below 20 ft, it disappears. The aura has the following traits:
-The area within it is filled with plant life which has no mechanical benefit, except that it allows for spells like entangle to function.
-At your option, chosen targets within the area take 1d4 point of piercing damage whenever they move more than half their speed. This damage increases to 1d6 points at 10th level, 1d8 points at 15th level, and 2d6 points at 20th level.
Or some other kind of penalty.

I really like the idea that the two types of Verdure are entangle vs minion and replacing carapace with an entangle support ability. What do you think of this...

Aura of Dominion (Su): The wilds are such an intrinsic part of your being, you take them with you wherever you go. You emit an aura of dominion with a radius equal to 10 ft per 5 Verdure levels you possess (to a maximum of 40 ft at level 20). Your surroundings begin to sprout small plants and undergrowth even in environments or climates where such growth is normally not possible such as dungeon halls or frozen tundra. This provides no mechanical effects but does allow spells and abilities dependent on plants & natural growth to function. As a swift action, the Verdure may focus on the area affected by her aura. The Verdure must use a swift action each round to maintain this focus but gains the following abilities:
- The verdure may cause the plant life with the area to grow larger and more dense, making the area difficult terrain. Being an extension of herself, the plants in this area know friend from foe and the Verdure may designate any number of creatures to be unaffected. Creatures within the area and not exempted by the Verdure take 1d4 points of piercing damage whenever they move more than half their speed. This damage increases to 1d6 points at 10th level, 1d8 points at 15th level, and 2d6 points at 20th level.
- The verdure may use a move action to increase the diameter of her aura by 10 ft. This increase lasts as long as the verdure maintains her focus. This ability may be used multiple times and its effects stack.

What do you think of the above?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-13, 12:05 PM
Looks great. It doesn't step too hard on Entangle's toes (although I might mention that the difficult terrain from it doesn't stack with that from Entangle), which is good, and it's differently themed enough (controlled zone vs. autonomous overgrowth) that you can come up with separate adaptations.

One of the reasons I like the use of move(or standard!) actions to grow and enhance the zone of control is that it mirrors, in some ways, the use of the Plant ability.
While Entangle is an ability which you throw down and leave standing, and Plant Companion is something that you direct without spending actions and is with you from the start, you have to spend actions each round to call up your Plant allies. As a result, a Plant/Plant Companion build will find itself spending actions each round on calling up Plants, while directing its companion in the meantime to contribute. An Entangle/Aura build will then find itself spending actions every round on building up its Dominion. Previously, Entangle builds were close to fire-and-forget; I don't think it's as much of an issue now.

Of course, Entangle/Companion builds will find themselves with less to do later in the battle, but start strong, and Plant/Aura builds will take much longer to build up power, but I think that's fine.

Kaskus
2017-02-13, 10:45 PM
Changed calculation of Plant attack bonus / CMB calculation in the "Plant" ability's description.

Merge: added action for rematerializing.

Spontaneous Stride / Merge: I realized that I already referenced the base Entangle ability with the Entangling Stride adaptation so my initial worry may have been unwarranted.

Carapace officially replaced with Aura of Dominion.

Basic notes about Plant Forms added to the beginning of the Plant Adaptations section.

Combat Reflexes Plant Adaptation reworded (I hadn't considered a character using it to just double their own AOOs - good catch)

Constrictor Plant Adaptation Removed and Carnivore Plant Adaptation updated. I will plan on writing an upgrade to this with the Swallow Whole ability.

Reach Adaptation replaced with "Large"

Burster description updated - now deals acid damage and save or be sickened.

Added effects of Tenacious Entangle adaptation to the base Entangle ability.


Wall of Thorns: Good battlefield control option, love it. Makes sense as a “reimagining” of how you use Entangle. You can just reference your level directly instead of BMB.

BMB is intended to improve with other classes as well (the same way all classes improve BAB) to make multi-classing more synergistic. Replacing BMB with level would remove that synergy from the ability.


Entangled Bridge: That’s not how the “spread” area of Entangle works. It does that already.

The intent with Entangled bridge was to use entangle to create a bridge over which the Verdure could walk. I wrote this before bridging stride though so it's probably not need anymore. - Removed!


Extra Entangle: Should maybe be a feat instead? Unless you’re burning the uses on some ability, it won’t come up.

I was planning an "Extra Adaptation" feat. With that feat, they could select this adaptation and get the effect you describe or they could also use one of their adaptions to do so if they prefer to use their feat for something else. I think this gives a little more freedom to the player even if the adaptation might not often be selected.


Friendly Entanglement: Another “must-pick”. Makes Entangle a huge force-multiplier, maybe unbalanced, but I love it. Again, level-select it.

By "level-select it" do you mean that it should be part of the class feature automatically at a certain level, that it should have a level pre-req or something else? What if I added the cost of using a swift action to designate 1 creature to be unaffected?

Thorny Entangle has been expanded to include the full effect.

Entangled Reach has been modified. I like this much better. I have noted that it affects creatures above and below so it still achieves the effect against low flyers and now also protects against some burrowing creatures.

I updated a little wording in the Drag Down Adaptation. The word "Really" was used three times. Do you think it is OP or are those good "Really"s?

Next, I will try and go through the notes on the Bear Fruit Adaptations and comment / edit / defend as appropriate. Thanks.

Kaskus
2017-02-14, 12:51 AM
On Pinnacle adaptations:
Merge is actually pretty appropriate for a pinnacle adaptation of Entangle or Stride.
Spontaneous Stride is ditto, but for Stride only.

Are you of the opinion that these should be adaptations rather than class features?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-14, 05:05 PM
Either way works. The way you have it set up, pinnacle adaptations aren't really adaptations, they're just parts of the 20th level class feature.
However, I will say that Spontaneous Stride and Merge aren't for everyone, especially people who aren't focusing on Entangle effects.

Spontaneous Stride could be adjusted to make it more general (let it jump between Entangle zones, Plants, your Plant Companion, or anywhere in your Entangle aura) and more suited for a general class feature, but Merge would take more work to convert similarly- I think it works better as an Entangle pinnacle ability.

Kaskus
2017-02-14, 07:51 PM
Either way works. The way you have it set up, pinnacle adaptations aren't really adaptations, they're just parts of the 20th level class feature.
However, I will say that Spontaneous Stride and Merge aren't for everyone, especially people who aren't focusing on Entangle effects.

Spontaneous Stride could be adjusted to make it more general (let it jump between Entangle zones, Plants, your Plant Companion, or anywhere in your Entangle aura) and more suited for a general class feature, but Merge would take more work to convert similarly- I think it works better as an Entangle pinnacle ability.

After thinking about this and re-reading them a couple times, I agree.

Merge & Spontaneous Stride have been moved to Adaptations and removed from the main class features list. I also bumped Spontaneous a bit to allow jumping between multiple entangled areas. I put palceholders at levels 17 & 19 where these were and will try to add some new abilities to fill.

I also added a section to the Adaptations post for Pinnacle Adaptations. They are still listed in their respective categories as well.

I added an ability called "Fast Plant" at level 7 to allow the Verdure to get more plants on the field quickly and moved Woodland Sight to level 8.

Burst of Nettles has been replaced with Improved Spell Blossom but I haven't yet defined it.

Added a pinnacle adaptation to the Plant Adaptations List: Instant Plants - lets you summon all your plants as a swift action.

Question: Would it be too weird (due to non-intuitive spell selection) or have any balance issues to leave the spell selection for Improved Spell Blossom open? Something like "Select 5 spells of level 3 or below. You can create a spell blossom for one of these spells a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)." Is 5 enough? Should it be restricted to the Druid list? I like the freedom of selection but I also kind of want to keep certain effects in certain abilities. For example, I think healing and buffs should be facilitated via Fruit. Spell blossoms should perhaps be restricted to utility spells? Does anyone have any opinions on this?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-15, 04:45 PM
On Spell Blossom- I would at minimum restrict it to one spell list or group of spell lists (Druid + some domains, for example). Otherwise, you get people cherry-picking only the best spells of each level.
Additional limitations... you could limit it to (harmless) spells with touch or personal range, maybe? That would cover most buffs and healing spells, I think.


On Fast Plant- It's important for the class to have that ability, but not necessarily at that level. Spending two rounds setting up is OK- gives them some decisions to make each round. Also, you get a slight irregularity, where it takes:
One round to set up levels 1-4
Two rounds to set up for levels 5 and 6
One round again for levels 7-9
Two rounds again for levels 10-19
Three rounds for level 20 (Unless you take the relevant Pinnacle).

What do you think about making it a Plant adaptation which you can take starting at level 10? That would synch up with getting the 3rd plant, where it starts to be most necessary.

On the Plant Pinnacle- Maybe just let you deploy any number of plants using the normal action to deploy? Otherwise, you have a Verdure blowing its entire class feature list in one round with Standard action:Entangle, Move Action:Aura focus, Swift Action: Deploy Plants. Would also help it combine with Fast Plant more elegantly.

One other thing you might want to consider is disassembling Stride adaptations into class features, and moving the entanglement-related ones into Entangle. Stride currently feels like the odd-feature-out, as it doesn't directly upgrade a single clear class feature, and a full stride-spec build isn't particularly useful compared to full focus in other features.

Kaskus
2017-02-15, 08:10 PM
On Fast Plant- It's important for the class to have that ability, but not necessarily at that level. Spending two rounds setting up is OK- gives them some decisions to make each round. Also, you get a slight irregularity, where it takes:
One round to set up levels 1-4
Two rounds to set up for levels 5 and 6
One round again for levels 7-9
Two rounds again for levels 10-19
Three rounds for level 20 (Unless you take the relevant Pinnacle).

What do you think about making it a Plant adaptation which you can take starting at level 10? That would synch up with getting the 3rd plant, where it starts to be most necessary.

This is the kind of analysis I feel like I should think of but never do. Thank you for breaking that down! Putting it at level 10 would keep it at 2 rounds until level 20 and the progression does seem smoother. I feel like it should be a class feature though rather than an adaptation. Do you disagree?

For now I have left it a class feature but moved it to level 10


On the Plant Pinnacle- Maybe just let you deploy any number of plants using the normal action to deploy? Otherwise, you have a Verdure blowing its entire class feature list in one round with Standard action:Entangle, Move Action:Aura focus, Swift Action: Deploy Plants. Would also help it combine with Fast Plant more elegantly.

Totally agree with this. Changed.


One other thing you might want to consider is disassembling Stride adaptations into class features, and moving the entanglement-related ones into Entangle. Stride currently feels like the odd-feature-out, as it doesn't directly upgrade a single clear class feature, and a full stride-spec build isn't particularly useful compared to full focus in other features.

Are you saying that you believe that the stride and entangle adaptations should both become sets of class features? The original intent for the stride adaptations was to provide increased mobility and access to space to go along with the "i can move around freely and you cant" idea. The idea of plants in their vicinity bending to their will on an intuitive level to hold or lift them up in various circumstances is behind most of them (lily pad = hold up over water, vertical stride = hold you up as you climb, canyon stride = hold you up over empty space, arboreal stride = tree branches moving to be under your feet, etc.). Also, since mystic stride was part of the initial concept, I felt it should be looked at for adaptation design.

Also, what do you think of replacing Woodland Stride with Mystic Stride and eliminating Woodland Stride since Mystic Stride overrides is anyways? I originally put it in to make it more of a progression but the initial thought behind the class was entangle+mystic stride = cool. Putting Mystic stride at 2nd level achieves that faster and eliminates an ability that essentially becomes obsolete 2 levels later anyways.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-15, 10:35 PM
Given how essential it is to a Plant build, I'd be OK with making it either an adaptation ("feat tax") or class feature.


Are you saying that you believe that the stride and entangle adaptations should both become sets of class features? The original intent for the stride adaptations was to provide increased mobility and access to space to go along with the "i can move around freely and you cant" idea. The idea of plants in their vicinity bending to their will on an intuitive level to hold or lift them up in various circumstances is behind most of them (lily pad = hold up over water, vertical stride = hold you up as you climb, canyon stride = hold you up over empty space, arboreal stride = tree branches moving to be under your feet, etc.). Also, since mystic stride was part of the initial concept, I felt it should be looked at for adaptation design.

Not the stride and entangle class features. I mean that some subset of stride adaptations not related to other class features (i.e. everything except for Entangling Stride, Gliding Stride, and Giant Stride) get moved into class features, with the remaining merged into the appropriate class features' adaptation (i.e. Entangling Stride, Giant Stride, and Gliding Stride get moved to being Entangle adaptations, Beanstalk moves into Plant maybe). While the varying movement adaptations are good at helping you maneuver in the appropriate conditions, most are too situational to be good choices outside specific campaigns where the same terrain will come up repeatedly. Some kind of Terrain Mastery class feature, where you pick one of those specific abilities (pseudo-climb speed, pseudo-branchiation speed, pseudo-swim speed i.e. water walk, pseudo-jump speed in canyon stride) would make them less of a penalty to the combat power of the class. Parting Stride is practically a class feature anyway.


Also, what do you think of replacing Woodland Stride with Mystic Stride and eliminating Woodland Stride since Mystic Stride overrides is anyways? I originally put it in to make it more of a progression but the initial thought behind the class was entangle+mystic stride = cool. Putting Mystic stride at 2nd level achieves that faster and eliminates an ability that essentially becomes obsolete 2 levels later anyways.
Sounds fine.

Kaskus
2017-02-15, 11:06 PM
On Spell Blossom- I would at minimum restrict it to one spell list or group of spell lists (Druid + some domains, for example). Otherwise, you get people cherry-picking only the best spells of each level.
Additional limitations... you could limit it to (harmless) spells with touch or personal range, maybe? That would cover most buffs and healing spells, I think.

I was thinking of staying away from healing and most buffs and instead focusing on control, debuffs, utility and some thematically appropriate offense. What do you think of this list...

Improved Spell Blossom: Snare, Fungal Infestation, Contagion, Burst of Nettles, Web Shelter, Vine Strike, Spore Burst, Euphoric Cloud, Produce Flame (Needed for Mario Build), Obscuring Mist, Enthrall, Fog Cloud, Cloud of Seasickness, Grease, Glue Seal, Deep Slumber, Charm Person, Color Spray, Fear, Animate Rope, Mad Hallucination, Blindness/Deafness, Spider Climb, Conjure Carriage (Pumpkin of course!), Hold Person, Discovery Torch, Mantle of Calm, Blend, Itching Curse, Shillelagh, Thorn Javelin, Climbing Beanstalk, Flotsam Vessel, Forest Friend, Lily Pad Stride, Spike Growth (Make into an aura adaptation instead? - in addition to?)

Also, need to commit to how many of the above should be on the list. My initial gut-feeling was 5. There are 36 spells (if I counted properly) on the list as a whole. Is 5 enough? I could also make an adaptation which lets that list be expanded.

Note: I also added a "Greater Spell Blossom" at level 14 but it is also as of yet undefined.

Woodland Stride has been changed to Mystic Stride

I understand now what you meant about the stride adaptations.
- Entangling Stride moved to Entangle adaptations
- New Entangle adaptation added: Aura of Entanglement
- Companion Stride (Companion) edited to give them the benefit of entangling stride rather than mystic stride.

Poisonous Companion removed

Improved Hive upgraded to 1d6 damage. What do you think about increasing the diameter to 10ft as well? Would that be too much?

Damage for Grenade adaptation has been upgraded.

Added verbiage to Suicide bombers about being damaged and dealing splash damage on misses and premature detonation.

Purging Blossom renamed "Revealing Blossom" and spell effect changed from Invisibility Purge to Glitterdust. I am wondering though whether this should be a Plant adaptation like another type of burster rather than a fruit adaptation. What do you think of that?


Corpse Seed: I like it. Might make it zombies only, in honor of the yellow musk creeper. You could even replicate yellow musk zombies directly- just mention that they have the plant type instead.

Yellow musk creeper was the inspiration for this. Iwent with regular animate dead for 2 reasons. the first was simplicity and the second was because of the CR difference between standard Zombies (1/2 for medium) and a yellow musk Zombie (CR 2). If we kept the standard zombie though and replaced undead traits/type with plant traits/types rather than use the yellow musk zombie directly, I think it would work fine and still be balanced well enough.


Vertical Stride: I’m not sure why the “begin and end” term is included, but it looks good. Perhaps a Climb bonus, or a maximum Climb DC (note that DCs are partially based on available handholds or footholds, going by the example DCs for Climb).

The "begin and end" term is there as a limiter. You cannot begin or end your movement mid-climb. The climbing movement accomplished via this ability must be completed in one move. I thought just granting a climb speed would be too much. Perhaps I am overvaluing climb speeds? Alternatively, perhaps a scaling climb bonus could be implemented instead? What about eliminating this adaptation completely but adding a scaling bonus to climb & acrobatics checks as a class feature?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-16, 12:04 AM
Those sound like good options for spells. I'm not going to check them one-by-one (and I don't recognize most of them), but assuming they're of similar level (3rd or below), the results should be fairly balanced.
Actually, on second thought, Sleep and Cause Fear stand out as spells which are particularly useless at 6th level. Upgrade one of them to Deep Slumber, and the other to Scare, or whatever the next fear spell is called.

I won't do an in-depth analysis on spells known, but one thing you might do is have them advance slightly by starting them off with a few, and then giving them a few more with levels.
As a player, I would probably take roughly one AoE spell(Burst of nettles, one of the cloud spells), one single-target or small area hoser spell (hold person, sleep/deep slumber, etc.), and fill out the rest of my spells with utility options(Snare, web shelter, etc). Make of that what you will.

This is definitely a class feature which could be expanded with adaptations. In addition to spells, it's one thing which could be adapted like Bear Fruit to produce a variety of special abilities.

Hive radius upgrade is fine. Penalties from Hive aren't too severe anyway, just enough that I would be happy about taking it.

Purging Blossom makes more sense as a Plant ability than as a Fruit, yeah. Downside is that Plants aren't limited like Fruit, so you get Glitterdust spam. Maybe make it require a use of Bear Fruit? Sort of a hybrid power between both class features.

Kaskus
2017-02-16, 12:36 AM
Purging Blossom makes more sense as a Plant ability than as a Fruit, yeah. Downside is that Plants aren't limited like Fruit, so you get Glitterdust spam. Maybe make it require a use of Bear Fruit? Sort of a hybrid power between both class features.

What if I make it a plant adaptation that allows you to expend a use of your Bear Fruit ability to cause a Revealing Blossom to grow on an already summoned plant?

More updates:
Clarification: Giant stride and gliding stride do combo with entangling stride :smallsmile:

Minor language updates to canyon stride and arboreal stride. Are these more clear now?

Lily Pad Stride eliminated as an adaptation. Added as option to Improved Spell Blossom

Improved Lily Pad Stride removed completely

Improved Hive radius upgraded

Spontaneous Stride Moved to Entangle Adaptations list.

I'm still unsure of the best way to deal with the remaining Stride Adaptations. Keeping them as-is for now.


Actually, on second thought, Sleep and Cause Fear stand out as spells which are particularly useless at 6th level. Upgrade one of them to Deep Slumber, and the other to Scare, or whatever the next fear spell is called.

Changed "Sleep" to "Deep Slumber" and changed "Cause Fear" to "Fear." Fear is level 3 for Bards and level 4 for most/all others. The full list has now been entered into the Improved Spell Blossom description in the original post.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-16, 05:40 PM
On Revealing Blossoms: Sounds good.

Canyon stride slightly unclear. Can you move vertically with it?

Other than that, things look pretty good.

Kaskus
2017-02-16, 08:43 PM
On Revealing Blossoms: Sounds good.

Canyon stride slightly unclear. Can you move vertically with it?

Other than that, things look pretty good.

So long as you end your movement on solid footing, yes you can go vertical (note that vertical stride is a pre-req).

I wanted to take a moment to again say thank you for your input and for taking such an interest in my little class here. It has been a great help both mechanically and has bolstered my own enthusiasm for this project and development in general so - Thank you again aimlessPolymath!

When I have a bit more time, I will do some cleanup and work on writing some Blossom adaptations :)

Cheers!

Kaskus
2017-02-18, 04:54 PM
Updates:

Rearranged the class feature descriptions to match the order in which they are received.
- Added plant statistics to the description of the Plant ability.
- Added some verbiage to Greater Spell Blossom but have not yet put the spell list together
- Added a new ability at level 7 (Vine Field)
- Added a new ability at level 17 (Greater Vine Field)
- Added a new ability at level 18 (Verdant Entourage) - Basically replicates the spell Wooden Phalanx. Since the duration of the spell is one hour per level, I figured i wouldn't worry about giving the spell and them having to recast in every day. I may create a new monster (Plant Golem - I wrote one years ago) and change the wood golems to those instead but that will have to wait.
- Added a new ability at level 19 (Freedom of Movement)

Still Need:
- Spell Blossom Adaptations
- There are a couple adaptations I plan on revisiting as well

Looking at the table again, I see that while at level 15 you do get a 4th Plant and a plant damage increase, it is the only level without something else. Would you consider this a dead level or is it okay as is?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-18, 07:27 PM
I suspect that Wooden Phalanx (possibly changed so you can only use one golem at a time) and Vine Field/Greater Vine Field (one of the two) could go into Greater Spell Blossom. On the other hand, that would leave you with several dead levels... hm.

A thought- given that your current Stride adaptations are less combat-focused than the rest (other than Gliding Stride + Giant Stride) and are much more personally focused than most of the other adaptations, what do you think of moving them into their own movement-related class feature?
i.e.
Plant Stride: At level X, you learn the trick of controlling plants to move yourself across the land. Choose one of the following movement techniques:
-Vertical Stride, but with wording about having a climb speed (benefits of that include being able to take 10 and not losing your Dex bonus to AC)
-Arboreal Stride
-Canyon Stride but using the wording of Bridging Stride to function, so it doesn't work in 3d- also only works at no more than a 45 degree angle, so you can't go straight up or down.

At level XX, you can choose a second one.

Then move Beanstalk into a Plant adaptation.

Spell Blossom Adaptations:
Mm... what about letting the plants last longer before becoming unusable, so anyone can use them?
Contingent spells grown on an area like traps?
Synergy adaptation- an area spell spreads throughout the area of your aura/entangle spell
Synergy: Imbue a single-target spell into a plant or plant companion- if it hits someone within one round, they are affected by the spell with +2 DC

Kaskus
2017-02-19, 01:33 AM
I suspect that Wooden Phalanx (possibly changed so you can only use one golem at a time) and Vine Field/Greater Vine Field (one of the two) could go into Greater Spell Blossom. On the other hand, that would leave you with several dead levels... hm.

Wooden phalanx is a level 9 spell which is higher than anything allowable with Spell Blossom (Those spells cap at elvel 7). It gives a number of Golems equal to your charisma modifier. Since that is the primary ability for this class, I expect a PC to have a modifier of +4 to +6 or more. This is fairly in line with the amount the spell would give but takes the dice out of it so we don't have to worry about casting it again if you get a bad roll. Also, the duration for the spell is 1 hour per level and at this level, it might as well be the whole day anyways so it seems simpler to just give them the golems and be done with it.


A thought- given that your current Stride adaptations are less combat-focused than the rest (other than Gliding Stride + Giant Stride) and are much more personally focused than most of the other adaptations, what do you think of moving them into their own movement-related class feature?
i.e.
Plant Stride: At level X, you learn the trick of controlling plants to move yourself across the land. Choose one of the following movement techniques:
-Vertical Stride, but with wording about having a climb speed (benefits of that include being able to take 10 and not losing your Dex bonus to AC)
-Arboreal Stride
-Canyon Stride but using the wording of Bridging Stride to function, so it doesn't work in 3d- also only works at no more than a 45 degree angle, so you can't go straight up or down.

At level XX, you can choose a second one.

Then move Beanstalk into a Plant adaptation.

I have removed the Beanstalk adaptation completely. Improved Spell Blossom has "Climbing Beanstalk" as an option so its covered well enough there.

I also moved Giant Stride to the Entangle Adaptations list and renamed it "Propelling Entanglement."

That Leaves: Vertical Stride, Canyon Stride, Arboreal Stride and Bridging Stride.

What do you think of giving a stride ability at levels 4, 8, 12 & 15? I know 15 breaks the pattern but It could use another ability more than level 16. OR what if I alter Bridging stride slightly since it is a creation ability and not a movement ability and glue it to level 15, then do the others as stride abilities at levels 4, 8 & 12? I am now leaning towards that option.


Spell Blossom Adaptations:
Mm... what about letting the plants last longer before becoming unusable, so anyone can use them?
Contingent spells grown on an area like traps?
Synergy adaptation- an area spell spreads throughout the area of your aura/entangle spell
Synergy: Imbue a single-target spell into a plant or plant companion- if it hits someone within one round, they are affected by the spell with +2 DC

Thank you for the ideas!

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-19, 01:00 PM
What do you think of giving a stride ability at levels 4, 8, 12 & 15? I know 15 breaks the pattern but It could use another ability more than level 16. OR what if I alter Bridging stride slightly since it is a creation ability and not a movement ability and glue it to level 15, then do the others as stride abilities at levels 4, 8 & 12? I am now leaning towards that option.
Either way looks good- also leaning towards the second option.


Thank you for the ideas!
I'm just getting started!

Spell Blossom:
-Brew Potion- expanded to the whole druid list, maybe. You are treated as the caster of the effect- this has relevance with certain spells which affect others, such as Charm Animal (potion-ed meat is a classic trick).
-Insect-related plants- gain access to Summon Nature's Ally 3 (vermin only), Summon Swarm (spiders only), Control Vermin, Insect scouts, Giant vermin, Cape of Wasps, and Repel Vermin.

Plant:
-Motile Plant Plant Form: They move up to 15 ft per round.
-Rooted Plant Form: Entangle Synergy: Project a 5ft aura of entangle around each plant.
-Aura Synergy: Plants are extra durable (+3 AC) within your Dominion. Also, you can summon them anywhere in your Aura, not just within 30 ft.


Entangle:
-Overgrowth- as a standard action, you may expand an existing area of entanglement. Choose a point within its area- it now extends in a 10 ft spread from that point in addition to its existing area. Those within the new area must immediately save against the effect.
-Entangling Dominion: +2 to save DC of Entangle for those within your Dominion.
-Luring Entangle- As a standard action, you may make a touch attack against someone within 10 ft of a zone of entanglement. If it hits, make a combat maneuver check. If you succeed, you pull them 15 ft into the zone of entanglement.

Aura of Dominion:
-Lashing Vines- make (plant damage) attacks against anyone in your aura as a standard action.
-Grasping Creepers: As a standard action, choose up to four unoccupied spaces within the area of your dominion. Those spaces now require a DC X Strength check to exit, expending 10 ft of movement per attempt. Repeating this standard action lets you reselect the affected squares.
-Hedge Maze: As a standard action, you may designate a 15 ft wall within your aura. This wall is impassible without a Strength check. Each square of it has X hit points. Expends a use of (ability) to use. (Maybe not, actually- what if you move?)
-Draining Dominion: A replacement for the other Vampiric carapace ability. Creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1 point of negative energy damage per round. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained. Creatures which have taken this damage more than 10 times in the past hour become fatigued (Fort save each round negates, reduced save DC).
-Controlled Entangle: If your aura overlaps the area of an area of entanglement, you may extend your aura into that area as long as they are connected.

Companion:
-Piggyback Plant Form: You can summon a plant onto your plant companion. Or onto yourself! The resulting plant moves with the target, and also grants them +2 natural armor bonus to AC.

Kaskus
2017-02-19, 09:33 PM
I will review all the adaptation ideas when I have a little more time but I did make some progress...

Stride Adaptations are now gone! all options have either been moved to other categories or made part of the Verdant Stride class feature.

Carapace Adaptations finally removed from the list

Places added for Blossom and Dominion Adaptations though I haven't filled any in as of yet

Added spell list for Greater Spell Blossom - Please let me know what you think

Put the spell lists for all Spell Blossom Abilities in Spoilers to clean up the overall description and put each spell within each list on its own line to improve readability.

Finally, I took out the questions from the third post and replaced it with new feats! There are only two (so far) and I think they are pretty straightforward but let me know if you have any comments.

On a separate note: I started working on another Plant themed class today so hopefully I will have enough of it put together to post soon as well. I also have ideas for 2 more!

Kaskus
2017-02-19, 10:36 PM
Spell Blossom:
-Brew Potion- expanded to the whole druid list, maybe. You are treated as the caster of the effect- this has relevance with certain spells which affect others, such as Charm Animal (potion-ed meat is a classic trick).

I am instinctively disinclined to this idea. I feel like everything the verdure does is about bringing the power of nature to bear and using the surroundings to their advantage whereas making potions is a type of manufacturing and feels out of place to me. Charm animal specifically is out of theme for the Verdure as well (we are working with plants here, not animals). With that said, I wonder if I should pull charm person from the lists.


-Insect-related plants- gain access to Summon Nature's Ally 3 (vermin only), Summon Swarm (spiders only), Control Vermin, Insect scouts, Giant vermin, Cape of Wasps, and Repel Vermin.

This is an idea i am much more open to. I may even make a hive plant form adaptation and have that as a pre-req for this.


Plant:
-Motile Plant Plant Form: They move up to 15 ft per round.

I specifically would like to keep plants from being too much like creatures. They are not meant to be minions per se and I feel that this makes them into such. There is enough support in the class already for a minion build i think for this to be unnecessary.


-Rooted Plant Form: Entangle Synergy: Project a 5ft aura of entangle around each plant.

This is now the Entangling Plant adaptation. I listed it under the Plant adaptations but made it a hybrid. What do you think of that and should it then also be listed under the entangle adaptations category?


-Aura Synergy: Plants are extra durable (+3 AC) within your Dominion. Also, you can summon them anywhere in your Aura, not just within 30 ft.

I did a play on this. I have added "Bolstering Dominion" to the dominion adaptations. The effects are modeled on the bonuses undead receive within an area affected by the desecrate spell.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-20, 12:59 AM
I am instinctively disinclined to this idea. I feel like everything the verdure does is about bringing the power of nature to bear and using the surroundings to their advantage whereas making potions is a type of manufacturing and feels out of place to me. Charm animal specifically is out of theme for the Verdure as well (we are working with plants here, not animals). With that said, I wonder if I should pull charm person from the lists.
's cool. My idea for that was focusing on spell blossom as providing ingredients for use with brewing, but if you don't want itemcrafting to be a focus of this class, that's fine.


I did a play on this. I have added "Bolstering Dominion" to the dominion adaptations. The effects are modeled on the bonuses undead receive within an area affected by the desecrate spell.
Looks good.


I specifically would like to keep plants from being too much like creatures. They are not meant to be minions per se and I feel that this makes them into such. There is enough support in the class already for a minion build i think for this to be unnecessary.
OK.


This is now the Entangling Plant adaptation. I listed it under the Plant adaptations but made it a hybrid. What do you think of that and should it then also be listed under the entangle adaptations category?
...Both, maybe? Synergy effects like that are harder to place, yeah.

Kaskus
2017-02-20, 09:46 PM
Entangle:
-Overgrowth- as a standard action, you may expand an existing area of entanglement. Choose a point within its area- it now extends in a 10 ft spread from that point in addition to its existing area. Those within the new area must immediately save against the effect.

How do you see this differing from Enlarge Entangle? Do you see this as a leg or blister moving out from the main area? That is what I pictured. If that is so, what do you think of this wording...

"As a standard action, you may designate a 15x15 area adjacent to an area affected by your Entangle ability to be come affected as if by your Entangle ability. This area is treated as part of the area next to which it is created and the effect ends when the Entangle effect on the area to which it is attached ends."


-Luring Entangle- As a standard action, you may make a touch attack against someone within 10 ft of a zone of entanglement. If it hits, make a combat maneuver check. If you succeed, you pull them 15 ft into the zone of entanglement.

This seems to be covered by Entangling Reach. Am I missing something? The current Entangling Reach adaptation is automatic when they come within 10 ft of the area. Do you think it should require an action and an attack?


-Entangling Dominion: +2 to save DC of Entangle for those within your Dominion.

Super straight-forward. Stolen & added to both the Entangle list and the Dominion list.


Aura of Dominion:
-Lashing Vines- make (plant damage) attacks against anyone in your aura as a standard action.

Love this. Added to Dominion adaptations.


-Grasping Creepers: As a standard action, choose up to four unoccupied spaces within the area of your dominion. Those spaces now require a DC X Strength check to exit, expending 10 ft of movement per attempt. Repeating this standard action lets you reselect the affected squares.

As you have it there, a creature with a move of 30 can make 3 strength checks, is that right? Also, I am a bigger fan of skill checks than ability checks so what do you think of Escape Artist instead or perhaps a Reflex Save? This is sort of like diet hold person that can be used on multiple opponents. I am having a hard time judging what level at which it would be okay to have an ability like this. Aura of Dominion is gained at 5th level so the first time this adaptation could be selected would be 6th. A wizard can cast holder person at 3rd level but it affects only 1 creature.

What do you think about:
- Making it a single Reflex Save and not worry about the movement cost (for simplicity).
- Making it affect 1 space per 2 Verdure levels to a maximum of your Cha mod? This would likely mean 3 squares at level 6 when this first becomes an option and it would scale up to a max of 10 at level 20 (more likely to be Cha limited by then - perhaps 5 or 6?).
-Alternative to the above, make it one square at a time as a swift action and limit the maximum available at once to Cha mod. This would let the PC lay them like traps. If going this route, should they be able to persist outside the dominion if say the Verdure moved?


-Hedge Maze: As a standard action, you may designate a 15 ft wall within your aura. This wall is impassible without a Strength check. Each square of it has X hit points. Expends a use of (ability) to use. (Maybe not, actually- what if you move?)

So, when you use the word "maze" it makes me think of getting lost. The dominion is decent in size but not monstrously so. What if this ability allowed you to move a target within your dominion to another place within your dominion? Ooh! How about an adaptation that cause overgrowth which does no affect movement but does affect sight. Then an adaptation that builds on that and allows you to move a target from any point in your domain to any other point? Think of them coming to attack you and glimpsing you through the branches. Then they push through to strike and instead of finding you, they find themselves at the edge of the dominion, possibly where they started.

Note: One of the other Plant Classes I have an idea for is partially based around the idea of "The hedge" as a pseudo-extradimensional pathway to give them neat mobility, stealth & strike abilities. It is my "Plant Rogue."


-Draining Dominion: A replacement for the other Vampiric carapace ability. Creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1 point of negative energy damage per round. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained. Creatures which have taken this damage more than 10 times in the past hour become fatigued (Fort save each round negates, reduced save DC).

I feel like it should have a cost. Perhaps it requires a standard action? Also, one thing I have had in the back of my mind is the idea of a fungus aspected Verdure which would play on the more necromantic type abilities (Corpse Seed, etc.). This might make a good dominion ability for that theme.

Some other ideas I had there were
1. Making the Entangle ability affect an area as if by the Grease spell rather than the Entangle spell
2. A Fungus/Mushroom Plant Form - perhaps burster already fills this role?
3. A fungal companion ability that gives them an aura like hive but instead of damage, it has some sort of disease-like effect.

Not sure if there is enough there for a "build" and also not sure if those ideas work together necessarily. I thought of trying to put together an archetype for it maybe? What do you think?


-Controlled Entangle: If your aura overlaps the area of an area of entanglement, you may extend your aura into that area as long as they are connected.

This sounds fine. Added to both the Entangle and Dominion adaptations lists.

I also added Entangling Plants to the Entangle adaptations list so that it now appears in both places.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-21, 01:45 AM
On Overgrowth: How do you see this differing from Enlarge Entangle? Do you see this as a leg or blister moving out from the main area? That is what I pictured. If that is so, what do you think of this wording...
Yep! Looks fine.

More replies because I missed that you edited your post:


This seems to be covered by Entangling Reach. Am I missing something? The current Entangling Reach adaptation is automatic when they come within 10 ft of the area. Do you think it should require an action and an attack?
Whoops.


What do you think about:
- Making it a single Reflex Save and not worry about the movement cost (for simplicity).
- Making it affect 1 space per 2 Verdure levels to a maximum of your Cha mod? This would likely mean 3 squares at level 6 when this first becomes an option and it would scale up to a max of 10 at level 20 (more likely to be Cha limited by then - perhaps 5 or 6?).
-Alternative to the above, make it one square at a time as a swift action and limit the maximum available at once to Cha mod. This would let the PC lay them like traps. If going this route, should they be able to persist outside the dominion if say the Verdure moved?
I prefer the second alternative. I'd be OK with Reflex saves, but I'd like to allow Strength checks as an alternate option for those who prefer to break free physically.
What about a CMB check or Escape Artist check to escape? Those values should be fairly similar, so DC-ing it shouldn't be too hard.
On persisting outside: Maybe not? I think of the aura as active control of plants- in this case, you use it to grab people actively. Depends on how you fluff it, really.



So, when you use the word "maze" it makes me think of getting lost. The dominion is decent in size but not monstrously so. What if this ability allowed you to move a target within your dominion to another place within your dominion? Ooh! How about an adaptation that cause overgrowth which does no affect movement but does affect sight. Then an adaptation that builds on that and allows you to move a target from any point in your domain to any other point? Think of them coming to attack you and glimpsing you through the branches. Then they push through to strike and instead of finding you, they find themselves at the edge of the dominion, possibly where they started.

Interesting idea, and I'm not entirely sure how easily it can be fluffed- this sounds more like some sort of decoys or self-teleportation to me. Tried to write a variant maze with Safe Space below:


I feel like it should have a cost. Perhaps it requires a standard action? Also, one thing I have had in the back of my mind is the idea of a fungus aspected Verdure which would play on the more necromantic type abilities (Corpse Seed, etc.). This might make a good dominion ability for that theme.

Some other ideas I had there were
1. Making the Entangle ability affect an area as if by the Grease spell rather than the Entangle spell
2. A Fungus/Mushroom Plant Form - perhaps burster already fills this role?
3. A fungal companion ability that gives them an aura like hive but instead of damage, it has some sort of disease-like effect.

Not sure if there is enough there for a "build" and also not sure if those ideas work together necessarily. I thought of trying to put together an archetype for it maybe? What do you think?
Standard action is OK, maybe up the damage if you do, and cap the resulting healing.

Entangle doing Grease instead: Grease is a very irritating hoser spell which requires Balance checks to deal with. What do you think of resinous tar (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/complete-mage--58/resinous-tar--787/)? Feels more like a layer of sticky fungus vs. a thin coating of grease/
2. Burster fills it pretty well, but the statistics of plants don't feel quite right. What do you think of a "save DC over attack damage" type adaptation which synergizes with burster:
Fungal Plants: When creating a Plant, you may choose to make it a fungus, emphasizing its chemical traits over its physical ones. Fungi gain 2 extra hit points per verdure level, but have an AC of only 10 + BMB. They take a -3 penalty to attack rolls, but add +2 to the save DC of any of their abilities.
3. Huh. Start from the puffball, work your way from there? Could also do a set of companion-specific adaptations (sneak attack for crawling vine, grab for carnivorous flower, <something fungusy?> for puffball, power attack for treant).


Continuing (I will post adaptations faster than you can add them! Muahahahah!):

Destructive Dominion:
At your option, you may have selected unattended manufactured objects and structures within your Dominion take 1 point of damage per level per round, bypassing hardness.

(Siege mode!)

Flowering Blossoms: Delay Spell, but for Blossoms. Take a few extra rounds before setting them off, + to CL. Alternative name: Blossom Cultivation. Since they're all debuffs, it's probably OK compared to the possibility of buff abuse.

Sculpting Dominion:
You may reshape your dominion, only to trap intruders within. You may designate any number of squares within your Dominion to be excluded from its area, as long as the remaining area remains as a contiguous area containing you.

(niche choice, but handy)

Safe Space:
As a full-round action while maintaining your aura, you may cause its edges to coalesce into a 5-foot thick wall of thorns. This wall remains as long as it remains within your aura, even if its radius changes in the meantime. (https://openclipart.org/image/2400px/svg_to_png/219577/Daily-Sketch-22-labyrinth-2015052834.png) You may designate parts of the edges to be unaffected by this if you so choose.

(since the wall is 5 ft thick but you increase the radius in 10-ft increments, hedge maze!)

Greensense:
You have blindsense which detects creatures within your aura.

Anchor Aura:
As a free action, you can designate a location for your aura to emanate from instead of yourself. As long as you remain within your dominion, this persists. If you leave, it immediately collapses. You may recenter your aura on yourself as another free action.


Also, thought: Either the difficult terrain or the thorns should be removed from the base Dominion. The two have a nonbo with each other (spend a move action? difficult terrain means the thorns don't trigger) and entangle already applies difficult terrain.

Kaskus
2017-02-21, 11:01 PM
Overgrowth added to the list of Entangle adaptations.

@aimlessPolymath...
I was looking at some older notes as well...
- Changed the Corpse Seed adaptation to raise the body as a Yellow Musk Zombie. I had thought they were more powerful than standard zombies but looked again and they are basically the same. My question is... Do you think multiple YMZs should be able to be created (horde) up to a certain limit? Also, do you think they should be able to scale so they remain relevant at higher levels? Of course, if we want to go full necro, we could create adaptations for them specifically as well (or allow companion adaptations to be applied?).

- You had initially recommended that Friendly Entangle be incorporated into the base ability and I appear to have ignored that comment. Do you still feel that is should be so?

- Do you think Advance Companion should be limited to a one time pick?

- Added language to Evolved Companion about multi-selecting it


I prefer the second alternative. I'd be OK with Reflex saves, but I'd like to allow Strength checks as an alternate option for those who prefer to break free physically.
What about a CMB check or Escape Artist check to escape? Those values should be fairly similar, so DC-ing it shouldn't be too hard.
On persisting outside: Maybe not? I think of the aura as active control of plants- in this case, you use it to grab people actively. Depends on how you fluff it, really.

I 100% agreea bout the concept of the aura so no persistence!

Would it be too complicated to allow a Strength check or an Escape Artist check and have them with different DCs? Skills scale faster than abilities so my thought is that giving them separate DCs will keep the overall difficulty the same while allowing strong characters to be strong and wiggly characters to be wiggly...

"Dominating Tendrils (Dominion):
As a swift action, you may designate a 5x5 area within your aura of dominion to be grow dominating tendrils. When unoccupied, these spaces do not appear any different than the rest of your dominion. However if occupied, tendril-like vines rise up and grasp the target, holding them in place. An affected creature may attempt to break free by attempting a Strength check with a DC equal to 10 + Your Charisma Modifier or an Escape Artist Check with DC equal to 10 + Your BMB + Your Charisma Modifier."


Interesting idea, and I'm not entirely sure how easily it can be fluffed- this sounds more like some sort of decoys or self-teleportation to me. Tried to write a variant maze with Safe Space below:...

Safe Space:
As a full-round action while maintaining your aura, you may cause its edges to coalesce into a 5-foot thick wall of thorns. This wall remains as long as it remains within your aura, even if its radius changes in the meantime. (https://openclipart.org/image/2400px/svg_to_png/219577/Daily-Sketch-22-labyrinth-2015052834.png) You may designate parts of the edges to be unaffected by this if you so choose.

(since the wall is 5 ft thick but you increase the radius in 10-ft increments, hedge maze!)

That appears to do the trick! I have added it as a Dominion adaptation but added the pre-req of either the Wall of Thorns adaptation or the Greater Spell Blossom Class ability with Wall of Thorns selected.


-Draining Dominion: A replacement for the other Vampiric carapace ability. Creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1 point of negative energy damage per round. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained. Creatures which have taken this damage more than 10 times in the past hour become fatigued (Fort save each round negates, reduced save DC)...

Standard action is OK, maybe up the damage if you do, and cap the resulting healing.

Renamed to give it a more creepy vibe...

Parasitic Dominion (Dominion):
As a standard action, any number of living creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1d4 points of damage. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained in this way up to your Verdure level plus your charisma modifier. Hit points gained in excess of your maximum are gained as temporary hit points. You may have no more temporary hit points from this ability than your charisma modifier and these hit points are lost first. Any remaining temporary hit points are lost at the end of the day.

What do you think of that? Is the temp hp thing too much? is it explained weirdly?


Entangle doing Grease instead: Grease is a very irritating hoser spell which requires Balance checks to deal with.

Yea I kinda knew that before I even said it...


What do you think of resinous tar (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/complete-mage--58/resinous-tar--787/)? Feels more like a layer of sticky fungus vs. a thin coating of grease

I was not familiar with that spell in spite of having the book in which its printed. That sounds perfect! Since it is not a pathfinder spell I will just include the effect in the description...

"Alternative Class Feature: Fungal Expanse (Sp):
You may designate an area with a radius of 40 feet, the center of which must be within 400 ft. of your position + 40 ft. per Verdure level as the target of this ability. The designated area sprouts mushrooms and fungus of all types which secrete a sticky tar-like substance and coat the entire surface of the affected area. Movement costs across the area are doubled and any prone creature in the area must succeed on a DC 10 Strength check to stand up.

Items not in use or in a creature's possession automatically become affected. A creature holding an affected item must use a full-round action to let go of the item, drop it, put it away, pick it up from the ground, or ready it for use.

A creature wielding an affected item gains a +5 circumstance bonus on opposed checks to avoid being disarmed. A creature wearing armor or clothing affected by this spell takes a -5 penalty on Escape Artist checks and on grapple checks made to resist or escape a grapple or to escape a pin.
This ability replaces Entangle"

How's that?


2. Burster fills it pretty well, but the statistics of plants don't feel quite right. What do you think of a "save DC over attack damage" type adaptation which synergizes with burster:
Fungal Plants: When creating a Plant, you may choose to make it a fungus, emphasizing its chemical traits over its physical ones. Fungi gain 2 extra hit points per verdure level, but have an AC of only 10 + BMB. They take a -3 penalty to attack rolls, but add +2 to the save DC of any of their abilities.

I like this! Should it be a plant adaptation or an alternative class feature that replaces Plant?


3. Huh. Start from the puffball, work your way from there? Could also do a set of companion-specific adaptations (sneak attack for crawling vine, grab for carnivorous flower, <something fungusy?> for puffball, power attack for treant).

Companion Specific Adaptations - I like it conceptually. Putting a pin in this to come back to.


Continuing (I will post adaptations faster than you can add them! Muahahahah!):

I do find myself struggling to keep up! I will have to start going through the rest of these tomorrow. Thanks again!

Kaskus
2017-02-22, 10:54 PM
Okay, now the adaptations...


Destructive Dominion:
At your option, you may have selected unattended manufactured objects and structures within your Dominion take 1 point of damage per level per round, bypassing hardness.

I like this idea for fungal aspected Verdures! The idea that everything in the area is deteriorating at an accelerated pace due to this effect is good. I am not very familiar with the rules for damaging large structures and couldn't find it with a cursory search so I am not sure how good this is. I seem to recall ships and wagon and buildings being tracked in 10 ft. sections? If someone could educate me more on how structural damage works in Pathfinder, I would be grateful.

Looking at damaging objects - this ability at level 5 would...
- Completely destroy a simple wooden door in 2 rounds (3 for good wooden door & 4 for strong wooden door)
- Destroy every chain in the area
- Destroy an iron door in 12 rounds
- Destroy a 1-ft thick masonry wall in 18 rounds

A level 5 fireball (average damage of 17 points) would...
- Completely destroy a simple wooden door with 2 castings (half damage from energy attack)
- Destroy every chain in the area
- Destroy an iron door with 5 castings
- Destroy a 1-ft thick masonry wall with 12 castings

Similar damage to objects. So, is a power that sets off a fireball every round balanced if the fireball doesn't harm creatures?


Flowering Blossoms: Delay Spell, but for Blossoms. Take a few extra rounds before setting them off, + to CL. Alternative name: Blossom Cultivation. Since they're all debuffs, it's probably OK compared to the possibility of buff abuse.

How about...

Late Bloomer (Blossom):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
When creating a spell blossom, you may specify 1–5 rounds. That many rounds after the activation of the spell blossom, its spell effect is triggered.Only Spell Blossoms which replicate area, personal, and touch spells can be affected by this adaptation.

Any decisions you would make about the delayed effect, including attack rolls, designating targets, or determining or shaping an area, are decided when the spell effect is triggered. Any effects resolved by those affected by the spell, including saving throws, are decided when the delay period ends.

A delayed Spell Blossom can be dispelled normally during the delay and can be detected normally with spells or abilities that can detect spell effects.


Sculpting Dominion:
You may reshape your dominion, only to trap intruders within. You may designate any number of squares within your Dominion to be excluded from its area, as long as the remaining area remains as a contiguous area containing you.

Seems pretty straight-forward. Added to Dominion adaptation list


Greensense:
You have blindsense which detects creatures within your aura.

I had outlined an entangle ability that did this for areas of entanglement before the aura existed. That ability allowed you to sense creatures and objects as if you were located within every square of the area. I think your idea is simpler but I assume you mean blindsight rather than blindsense? If so...

Verdant Sight (Dominion):
Pre-req: Woodland Sight Class Feature
You gain blindsight which operates within the bounds of your dominion.

So simple! Do you think this is okay when combined with...


Anchor Aura:
As a free action, you can designate a location for your aura to emanate from instead of yourself. As long as you remain within your dominion, this persists. If you leave, it immediately collapses. You may recenter your aura on yourself as another free action.

This combined with Verdant Sight would allow you to remote view your dominion. I think I am okay with that. What do you think?

EDIT: Whoops! Missed that you specified that the Verdure must stay within the dominion. I think that works and synergizes fine with Verdant Sight. I added it to the Dominion adaptations list but made it a swift action to anchor and have your current location as the center but holding it there as you move. Also added Verdant Sight to the Dominion list.

P.S. I hope you don't mind that I end up renaming half of the adaptations you suggest :smallconfused:


Also, thought: Either the difficult terrain or the thorns should be removed from the base Dominion. The two have a nonbo with each other (spend a move action? difficult terrain means the thorns don't trigger) and entangle already applies difficult terrain.

I had to read your comment and the ability several times but finally caught what meant. Good catch. I have now removed the difficult terrain portion of the ability.

Regarding Plant Base Stats:
When I added Construct traits, I did so because I could not locate the base immunities, etc. of objects. I found them finally and feel like those should be in place rather than the construct traits. What do you think of that?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-22, 11:47 PM
Many replies!


- Changed the Corpse Seed adaptation to raise the body as a Yellow Musk Zombie. I had thought they were more powerful than standard zombies but looked again and they are basically the same. My question is... Do you think multiple YMZs should be able to be created (horde) up to a certain limit? Also, do you think they should be able to scale so they remain relevant at higher levels? Of course, if we want to go full necro, we could create adaptations for them specifically as well (or allow companion adaptations to be applied?).
I... sorta like the idea of them being uncontrolled, actually? It's just me, but I wonder if it would be cool if you couldn't control them directly, just prevent them from seeing selected targets? It would be different, at least- some lesser level of control than the normal necromancer, closer to Handle Animal than anything else.

At high levels, they're basically bodies in the way.
You could let some version of the Corpsecrafter feats apply to them if you want? Could make a decent adaptation chain.



- You had initially recommended that Friendly Entangle be incorporated into the base ability and I appear to have ignored that comment. Do you still feel that is should be so?
Somewhere at or before level 3, yes. It's too crucial to be left alone. Also, after we fill out the abilities, I think we should take a round of setting level prerequisites for abilities.


- Do you think Advance Companion should be limited to a one time pick?
It's a silly good option in comparison to the others. It would still be a auto-pick even if it were one time. Make it a feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/boon-companion/)that the character takes instead, maybe.


- Added language to Evolved Companion about multi-selecting it
Cool.


Would it be too complicated to allow a Strength check or an Escape Artist check and have them with different DCs? Skills scale faster than abilities so my thought is that giving them separate DCs will keep the overall difficulty the same while allowing strong characters to be strong and wiggly characters to be wiggly...
You could let them use CMB, which scales(for fighters) at about the same rate as a class skill. Bonus- they can both be used to escape grapples with the same rate.


That appears to do the trick! I have added it as a Dominion adaptation but added the pre-req of either the Wall of Thorns adaptation or the Greater Spell Blossom Class ability with Wall of Thorns selected.
Looks good.


Parasitic Dominion (Dominion):
As a standard action, any number of living creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1d4 points of damage. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained in this way up to your Verdure level plus your charisma modifier. Hit points gained in excess of your maximum are gained as temporary hit points. You may have no more temporary hit points from this ability than your charisma modifier and these hit points are lost first. Any remaining temporary hit points are lost at the end of the day.

What do you think of that? Is the temp hp thing too much? is it explained weirdly?

A little weirdly phrased about the temporary hit points:

As a standard action, any number of living creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1d4 points of damage. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained in this way up to your Verdure level plus your charisma modifier. Hit points gained in excess of your maximum are gained as temporary hit points, to a maximum of your charisma modifier. Any remaining temporary hit points are lost at the end of the day.
Should do it- rules on temporary hit points cover the rest.


I was not familiar with that spell in spite of having the book in which its printed. That sounds perfect! Since it is not a pathfinder spell I will just include the effect in the description...

"Alternative Class Feature: Fungal Expanse (Sp):
You may designate an area with a radius of 40 feet, the center of which must be within 400 ft. of your position + 40 ft. per Verdure level as the target of this ability. The designated area sprouts mushrooms and fungus of all types which secrete a sticky tar-like substance and coat the entire surface of the affected area. Movement costs across the area are doubled and any prone creature in the area must succeed on a DC 10 Strength check to stand up.

Items not in use or in a creature's possession automatically become affected. A creature holding an affected item must use a full-round action to let go of the item, drop it, put it away, pick it up from the ground, or ready it for use.

A creature wielding an affected item gains a +5 circumstance bonus on opposed checks to avoid being disarmed. A creature wearing armor or clothing affected by this spell takes a -5 penalty on Escape Artist checks and on grapple checks made to resist or escape a grapple or to escape a pin.
This ability replaces Entangle"

How's that?
Perfect. Could see a trip-based adaptation for it mirroring the Drag Down entangle adaptation.


I like this! Should it be a plant adaptation or an alternative class feature that replaces Plant?
Either way- maybe both sides have an adaptation to grant the other version?


I like this idea for fungal aspected Verdures! The idea that everything in the area is deteriorating at an accelerated pace due to this effect is good. I am not very familiar with the rules for damaging large structures and couldn't find it with a cursory search so I am not sure how good this is. I seem to recall ships and wagon and buildings being tracked in 10 ft. sections? If someone could educate me more on how structural damage works in Pathfinder, I would be grateful.

Looking at damaging objects - this ability at level 5 would...
- Completely destroy a simple wooden door in 2 rounds (3 for good wooden door & 4 for strong wooden door)
- Destroy every chain in the area
- Destroy an iron door in 12 rounds
- Destroy a 1-ft thick masonry wall in 18 rounds

A level 5 fireball (average damage of 17 points) would...
- Completely destroy a simple wooden door with 2 castings (half damage from energy attack)
- Destroy every chain in the area
- Destroy an iron door with 5 castings
- Destroy a 1-ft thick masonry wall with 12 castings

Similar damage to objects. So, is a power that sets off a fireball every round balanced if the fireball doesn't harm creatures?
I think it's fine. Little combat function, if some interesting strategic uses.


Late Bloomer (Blossom):
Looks nice.


P.S. I hope you don't mind that I end up renaming half of the adaptations you suggest
's cool. :tongue:


Regarding Plant Base Stats:
When I added Construct traits, I did so because I could not locate the base immunities, etc. of objects. I found them finally and feel like those should be in place rather than the construct traits. What do you think of that?
Yeah, that makes more sense.

Kaskus
2017-02-23, 02:33 PM
Many replies!
I... sorta like the idea of them being uncontrolled, actually? It's just me, but I wonder if it would be cool if you couldn't control them directly, just prevent them from seeing selected targets? It would be different, at least- some lesser level of control than the normal necromancer, closer to Handle Animal than anything else.

At high levels, they're basically bodies in the way.
You could let some version of the Corpsecrafter feats apply to them if you want? Could make a decent adaptation chain.

Qualifier: I LOVE Undead Horde Command style necromancers! Whenever I learn a new system where such is possible, that is one of the first builds i learn. Nerfing that style hurts my heart a little. Also, since the class can get command plants via Greater Spell Blossom, it then turns into an ability tax. I might be convinced about handling their control in an alternate way (convince me!) but want to avoid unneeded complication. I do also like shambling hordes and that would make them more like an environmental feature than minions, which has its own appeal. Need to think about this more.

I initially am hesitant to port the Corpsecrafter feats but its been too long since I last looked at them to have a meaningful opinion. I will add that to my homework list.


Somewhere at or before level 3, yes. It's too crucial to be left alone.

Added to base ability


Also, after we fill out the abilities, I think we should take a round of setting level prerequisites for abilities.

100% agree


It's a silly good option in comparison to the others. It would still be a auto-pick even if it were one time. Make it a feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/boon-companion/)that the character takes instead, maybe.

I think a feat is fine. I added a line to the second post, which covers plant companions stating that they are treated as animal companions for determining what feats may be selected and applied to them. That way the existing Boon Companion feat is selectable rather than writing a new / redundant feat. With that done, I have also removed Advance companion from the adaptation list.


You could let them use CMB, which scales(for fighters) at about the same rate as a class skill. Bonus- they can both be used to escape grapples with the same rate.

This seems like a much simpler solution. So, how about...

"Dominating Tendrils (Dominion):
As a swift action, you may designate a 5x5 area within your aura of dominion to be grow dominating tendrils. When unoccupied, these spaces do not appear any different than the rest of your dominion. However if occupied, tendril-like vines rise up and grasp the target, holding them in place. An affected creature may attempt to break free by attempting a CMD check with a DC equal to 10 + Your BMB + Your Charisma Modifier."


As a standard action, any number of living creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1d4 points of damage. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained in this way up to your Verdure level plus your charisma modifier. Hit points gained in excess of your maximum are gained as temporary hit points, to a maximum of your charisma modifier. Any remaining temporary hit points are lost at the end of the day.

Edited and added to dominion adaptations


Perfect. Could see a trip-based adaptation for it mirroring the Drag Down entangle adaptation.

Added to third post below feats

Lunch break is over. I will go through the rest tonight.

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-23, 02:46 PM
"Dominating Tendrils (Dominion):
As a swift action, you may designate a 5x5 area within your aura of dominion to be grow dominating tendrils. When unoccupied, these spaces do not appear any different than the rest of your dominion. However if occupied, tendril-like vines rise up and grasp the target, holding them in place. An affected creature may attempt to break free by attempting a CMD check with a DC equal to 10 + Your BMB + Your Charisma Modifier."

Whoops, not sure I was clear. "CMD check or Escape Artist check with a DC..." covers it fine.

Kaskus
2017-02-23, 08:00 PM
Destructive Domain and Dominating Tendrils both updated and added to dominion adaptations list.

I also replaced construct traits with object traits in the Plant Statistics section. If you wouldn't mind double checking that to make sure I didn't miss anything?

Fungal Plants added to plant adaptations list and also added to the alternative class features list

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-23, 11:04 PM
Well, they're technically missing the ability to make Fortitude saves which might apply (such as vs. disintegration) or Will saves in certain situations. Unattended objects always fail saves.

Needs immunity to death from massive damage, or HP become irrelevant at high level.

Also, just saw they're missing Hardness. Wood has hardness 5, or Charisma mod if you want it to scale with level.

That's all the problems I see.


Also, if you're working on a Google Doc, I'd love to contribute to the class you're working on.

Kaskus
2017-02-25, 12:55 AM
Added Hardness equal to Cha Mod

Added Immunity to death by massive damage and combined immunities into one "Plant / Object Traits" list


Regarding Saves. What do you think of these two approaches...

1. Treat them as attended / wielded by the Verdure (And thus using the Verdure's saves)

2. Treat them as magic items (Saves equal to 2 + Half Verdure Level)

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-25, 02:07 AM
I think treating them as attended makes the most sense, particularly since because they're animated and controlled by the verdure- thus, their reflexes are based on the verdure's, and ditto for Will. Fortitude is a bit more of a stretch, but not that much of one, and the consistency makes sense.
Also, it gives a way for the Verdure to pump up their plant's saves if needed.

Kaskus
2017-02-25, 01:34 PM
Verdure Saves it is. I have modified that section of the Plant base statistics section.

Edit: Also added Late Bloomer & Hive Blossom to the list of blossom adaptations. I want to make an expanded Spell Blossom adaptation as well that lets you pick more spells from the existing selection to add to your "known" list but am unsure of quantity. Hive blossom adds 7 if you include the 2 Greater Spell Blossom options, which is more than the base ability which grants 5 to start. I don't have a problem with that but that means...
- A. The basic Expanded Spell Blossom adaptation must provide at least as large of an addition
- B. The Hive Blossom needs a pre-req (Either the generic Expand adaptation noted above or perhaps a hive related adaptation such as the existin hive companion adaptation or a new plant form adaptation?)
- C. The Hive Blossom adaptation needs to be nerfed
- D. The Hive Adaptation needs to be split into 2 adaptions (Greater Hive Blossom?)

What are your thoughts on any and all of the above?

I feel like so much progress has been made and now is mostly nitpick time (Which is good - details are important.) In light of that, here are the things I believe are still needed...

1. Pinnacle Adaptations. I would like to have a pinnacle adaptation for each category. With that design goal in mind, here are the categories still in need:
- Bear Fruit
- Companion
- Dominion
- Spell Blossom (Actually, I need to get this category filled out in general - I will work on that, I know you already made some suggestions)

2. Spell Blossom Adaptations (see comment above)

3. Corpse Seed. I feel like it needs to be a little more defined (can you have more than one YMZ? How many? Etc.)

4. Bear Fruit Adaptations. Still a lot of design space here I think. Using Paladin Mercies as inspiration for condition removal effects was one suggestion but I haven't yet gone back to look at that properly. This is where i feel the Buffs should go (like Fortified Fruit). I don't want to get crazy so that there is a mirror for every spell i nthe game or anything but a little more could be done here. Southern Cross had suggested more and/or better healing options so that may be something to look at as well.

5. Swallower Plant Form. This got cut and rearranged into the current carnivore form and I was originally going to make an upgrade for it that gave it Swallow Whole.

6. Voltron? So I had an idea (not well thought out at all mind you) that there might be a pinnacle plant adaptation that let you combine your plants into one big super plant (Power Rangers also applicable if you prefer that over Voltron).


What else am I missing?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-25, 02:16 PM
Edit: Also added Late Bloomer & Hive Blossom to the list of blossom adaptations. I want to make an expanded Spell Blossom adaptation as well that lets you pick more spells from the existing selection to add to your "known" list but am unsure of quantity. Hive blossom adds 7 if you include the 2 Greater Spell Blossom options, which is more than the base ability which grants 5 to start. I don't have a problem with that but that means...
- A. The basic Expanded Spell Blossom adaptation must provide at least as large of an addition
- B. The Hive Blossom needs a pre-req (Either the generic Expand adaptation noted above or perhaps a hive related adaptation such as the existin hive companion adaptation or a new plant form adaptation?)
- C. The Hive Blossom adaptation needs to be nerfed
- D. The Hive Adaptation needs to be split into 2 adaptions (Greater Hive Blossom?)
What about "Add the following spells to the list of spells you can pick from Spell Blossom. Learn 3 new spells for Spell Blossom" as a generic format for adding spells to Spell Blossom, and then "Learn 5 new spells for Spell Blossom" is the generic Extend?


1. Pinnacle Adaptations.
Yeah... I'll think about these.


2. Spell Blossom Adaptations
I'll try to come up with some. I've been busy on another project recently, so the creative juices haven't been flowing as well.


3. Corpse Seed. Eh... I don't want it to be too transformative an effect just by taking one adaptation, not without some investment. 1 controlled at a time when you take the adaptation, up to 3 + a buff to them when you take an advanced version?


5. Swallower Plant Form. Swallow Whole has some cruft associated with it- hit points and AC of the stomach, DCs to escape. We have a basis to work with for that now, so it shouldn't be too hard.


4. Bear Fruit Adaptations. Will think about this as well.


6. Voltron? I think I had an idea for this in one of my previous posts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21723671&postcount=30), sort of. An improved version of it which lets you stack all of them onto one person would work OK, you'd just need to limit the single-target DPS a bit (perhaps you can only attack any creature up to twice with the plant riders, much like the hecatoncheries (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hecatoncheires)). A size-up for having enough of them stacked would make sense, too.

Kaskus
2017-02-25, 04:07 PM
What about "Add the following spells to the list of spells you can pick from Spell Blossom. Learn 3 new spells for Spell Blossom" as a generic format for adding spells to Spell Blossom, and then "Learn 5 new spells for Spell Blossom" is the generic Extend?

Expanded Spell Blossom (Blossom):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
Select 5 spells from the Improved Spell Blossom list that you do not already know and add them to the list of spells with which you can use Improved Spell Blossom.
Special: If you possess the Greater Spell Blossom Class Feature, you may use this feat to add spells from that abilities list to your list of spells with which you can use that ability. This feat may be taken multiple times.

&

Hive Blossom (Blossom):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
Add the following spells to those usable with Improved Spell Blossom: Summon Nature's Ally 3 (vermin only), Summon Swarm (spiders only), Control Vermin, Insect scouts, and Repel Vermin.
Add the following spells to those usable with Greater Spell Blossom: Giant vermin and Cape of Wasps
Select 3 of the spells added by this ability to the list of spells usable with your Improved or Greater Spell Blossom ability.
Special: Any unchosen spells from this ability may be added to the selectable lists for their respective lists and learned with the Expanded Spell Blossom adaptation.


Eh... I don't want it to be too transformative an effect just by taking one adaptation, not without some investment. 1 controlled at a time when you take the adaptation, up to 3 + a buff to them when you take an advanced version?

Base adaptation = 1 Base YMZ (2 HD) allowed
Upgrade adaptation = Up to 3 + Cha Mod in HD (1 big or multiple smaller ones?).

What do you think of that?


Swallow Whole has some cruft associated with it- hit points and AC of the stomach, DCs to escape. We have a basis to work with for that now, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Here goes...

Swallower (Plant Form):
Pre-req: Carnivorous Plant Form adaptation
You may create a Swallower with your Plant ability. Treat a Swallower as a Carnivore but with the following ability:
Swallow Whole: If a Swallower begins its turn with an opponent of the same size or smaller than the Swallower grappled, it can attempt a new combat maneuver check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey and the opponent takes bite damage. Each round thereafter, the swallowed creature takes acid damage equal to the Swallower's Bite Damage. A swallowed creature keeps the grappled condition, while the Swallower does not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of cutting damage required to get free is equal to 1/10 the Swallower’s total hit points), or it can just try to escape the grapple. The Armor Class of the interior of a Swallower is 10 + 1/2 its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity. If a swallowed creature cuts its way out, the Swallower cannot attempt to use its Swallow Whole ability again until the damage is healed. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, success puts it back in the Swallower’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again.


I think I had an idea for this in one of my previous posts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21723671&postcount=30), sort of. An improved version of it which lets you stack all of them onto one person would work OK, you'd just need to limit the single-target DPS a bit (perhaps you can only attack any creature up to twice with the plant riders, much like the hecatoncheries (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hecatoncheires)). A size-up for having enough of them stacked would make sense, too.

I initially thought that it was covered by the Plant Bearer adaptation, which lets you summon a plant onto the back of your companion. This is dependent on having a companion though so I thought that if someone wanted to summon 1 plant instead of many, a combine adaptation of some sort would support that. Perhaps a plant form that can count as 2+ plants but has better stats/abilities...

Legion (Plant Form):
You may forgo summoning multiple plants to instead summon a stronger plant. A Legion Plant's statistics vary based on how many plants it is counted as.
2 Plants: large size, +2 to hit, double hp & hardness increase to 10?
3 Plants: As above plus 2 attacks at full bonus?
4 Plants: As above plus another triple hp, huge size & mobile?
5 Plants: As above plus third attack, hardness 15 & regen?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-25, 10:36 PM
Oh, wow, I actually forgot you did Plant bearer.

I like the Legion form. Checking the value of the tiers:
-2 plants: Large size is good for Combat Reflexes, but not much else- you lose out on a bunch of damage. Increase plant damage 1 die size at this stage. Hit points are important, since this is an instant target.
-3 plants: 2 attacks makes sense, you're getting around 2/3 the attack count for your plants.
-4: Yeah, movement is something you get at this point. Not a lot, necessarily, just enough for it to be able to hit people just out of its range. Reach is nice, too. That said, this isn't a huge quantitative upgrade, more tactical.
-5: 3 attacks are a good number to finish with. Given that you can resummon it instantly, though, the ability to regenerate isn't that valuable, though. Needs something a little more punchy, especially since this is gained at level 20. What about attacking twice with Whirlwind Attack within its reach? Damage output isn't actually that overbearing (1d8 per level avg is less than empowered fireball), but it's so fun!

If you combine it with Plant Bearer, it's a super fun plant behemoth which charges into enemy lines on the back of your companion, then mercilessly shreds everything in reach (not really b/c not enough damage).



Base adaptation = 1 Base YMZ (2 HD) allowed
Upgrade adaptation = Up to 3 + Cha Mod in HD (1 big or multiple smaller ones?).
Standard format for controlled creatures is you get some number of HD per level, or a specific number. I'd set it to 1 HD/level early, then 3 HD/level with the upgrade, maybe.

Kaskus
2017-02-26, 01:30 AM
How about...

Legion (Plant Form):
You may forgo summoning multiple plants to instead summon a stronger plant. A Legion Plant's statistics vary based on how many plants it is counted as.
2 Plants: Large size, +2 to hit, Upgrade Damage Dice to d8, double hp
3 Plants: As above plus 2 attacks at full bonus, additional +1 to hit & Hardness increase to 10
4 Plants: As above plus triple hp, Upgrade Damage Dice to d10, huge size & Movement 20
5 Plants: As above plus third attack, forgo 3 regular attacks for double whirlwind attack, hardness 15 & Something Cool (See Below)

for 5 Form, what do you think of Entrap? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules/#Entrap_Ex_or_Su

And / Or Trample? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules/#Trample_Ex

Just for Fun / Inspiration: http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/15/02/70/29/druid_10.jpg
---

Regarding Corpse Seed: The spell ANimate Dead allows up to 4HD per caster level. BMB is the Verdure's "stand in" for caster level so what do you think about having it be 4 x BMB (which is 3 x Verdure level) HD limit but also limited to just 1 of them. So they never have more than 1 of them but they can make stronger and stronger ones as they level so the YMZ stays relevent? Perhaps just put in that the YMZ has HD of Level x 3 or if you want to put in some pseudo-fluff, it can grow by 1 HD each day until it reaches a maximum of Level x 3?

I think I still dont like the above. Maybe its because I need to sleep but I am liking the idea of having more of them and not caring if their individual power becomes non-relevant at upper levels. if I were to change the wording on plant-bearer such that it is not just your companion but any plant creature under your control onto which you can summon a plant, it would make YMZs valid targets for that adaptation and they can then be used as stiff shambling platforms for the plants. What do you think of that idea?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-27, 06:45 PM
Legion form:
Looks good. Double whirlwind attack seems fine for a "capstone" to me, could also grab trample if you like.

I like the picture!


I think either limit it based on HD or number, not both. I'm currently leaning towards number, actually. It occurs to me that a savvy player might flood the field with 2-HD zombies, giving them time to set up their Entangle, Plants and Dominion.

Changing the wording of Plant Bearer sounds fine, either way.


Also, Entangle adaptation: Make the Entangle give cover against attacks from above- sorta need some way to deal with flying archers/dragons, or at least give protective support.

Also also: I think we should move Entangled Reach into Dominion adaptations- it fits much better with active control of plants, and it otherwise is dueling for design space with Overgrowth. Anti-Flight for Entangle can then be covered by the adaptation I just came up with.

Kaskus
2017-02-27, 09:47 PM
Legion form:
Looks good. Double whirlwind attack seems fine for a "capstone" to me, could also grab trample if you like.

I like the picture!

I think both! at Level 20, you should go big. I am usually more worried about making things overpowered rather than under but i think its okay to push a little at level 20.

Legion has been added to the list of Plant Adaptations.


I think either limit it based on HD or number, not both. I'm currently leaning towards number, actually. It occurs to me that a savvy player might flood the field with 2-HD zombies, giving them time to set up their Entangle, Plants and Dominion.

I thought about this more over the weekend and I am all about quantity. Even if all they do is waste enemy actions to get rid of them or block enemy movements by being in the way, I think that is great!

I have edited the Corpse Seed Adaptation accordingly.


Changing the wording of Plant Bearer sounds fine, either way.

I am leaving as is for now


Also, Entangle adaptation: Make the Entangle give cover against attacks from above- sorta need some way to deal with flying archers/dragons, or at least give protective support.

I have had this thought multiple times. I feel like cover in general is something that needs more support. That would give the Wilderness sight abilities more relevance. I think however that such an ability would fit better with Dominion since the Verdure will always be within their Dominion but may or may not be within a given area of entanglement.

The Flip side of that is that a Verdure with a companion instead of an aura does not have access to Domain adaptations so would not get this. Since the Woodland Sight abilities are baked in, I feel the cover ability should be tied to a feature that is also baked, of which Entangle makes the most sense.

Typing as I think: I think I just convinced myself that you are right about this belonging with Entangle. So, what about...

Entangled Canopy (Entangle):
You cause trees and bushes within the area affected by your Entangle ability to grow and close in. Creatures within the area affected by your Entangle ability are considered to have concealment against any other creature 10 or more feet away. You may expend an additional use of your Entangle ability to make it total concealment instead. This does not impede movement beyond the normal effects of your Entangle ability.

This would allow them to gain concealment versus flyers as well as lateral enemies and give them something on which to spend uses of Entangle. What do you think?


Also also: I think we should move Entangled Reach into Dominion adaptations- it fits much better with active control of plants, and it otherwise is dueling for design space with Overgrowth. Anti-Flight for Entangle can then be covered by the adaptation I just came up with.

This is the part I am not sure I agree with. Since the ability pulls enemies into an area of Entanglement, it seems it should go with Entangle adaptations. Perhaps you could give me an example of how you see the Dominion version working?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-27, 11:44 PM
This would allow them to gain concealment versus flyers as well as lateral enemies and give them something on which to spend uses of Entangle. What do you think?
I'm a little against the "spend uses of Entangle" part- while an outlet for extra uses does sound good, I suspct that without other options to spend them on, it will become "automatic" to spend the uses. I suspect that going down the route of letting them spend more for more just pumps up the Verdure's power in the short term, while reducing their sustainability- something which I'm personally against as a design decision.


This is the part I am not sure I agree with. Since the ability pulls enemies into an area of Entanglement, it seems it should go with Entangle adaptations. Perhaps you could give me an example of how you see the Dominion version working?
Alright. It pulls into Dominion, slightly tweaked to take actions to use rather than being automatic (I realized you might get a multiperson pileup, or pull people repeatedly between different zones, which seemed silly):



Grasping Vines:
As a move action, choose an unoccupied square within your Dominion. Lashing vines erupt from it, pulling a chosen creature within 10 feet into it. You must make a touch attack roll to hit with the vines, followed by a CMB check against the target to pull them. If you succeed, the target is immediately pulled into the chosen square.


It has utility even within your Dominion as well- yank someone towards one of your Plants, or away from their group, or through the Safe Space hedge left around, or into your Dominating Tendrils, or whatever. Still works on flyers or those outside the area, so its original use is left intact.

Part of the issue I had with it in Entangle are that a) it seems to imply actively directing active plants, which is something we've been moving into Dominion, and b) the behavior of "someone thinks they're safe outside the entangle zone- hah no they aren't" is pretty much covered by Overgrowth creating more entangle over your chosen target.

Kaskus
2017-02-28, 01:23 AM
I'm a little against the "spend uses of Entangle" part- while an outlet for extra uses does sound good, I suspct that without other options to spend them on, it will become "automatic" to spend the uses. I suspect that going down the route of letting them spend more for more just pumps up the Verdure's power in the short term, while reducing their sustainability- something which I'm personally against as a design decision.


Alright. It pulls into Dominion, slightly tweaked to take actions to use rather than being automatic (I realized you might get a multiperson pileup, or pull people repeatedly between different zones, which seemed silly):



It has utility even within your Dominion as well- yank someone towards one of your Plants, or away from their group, or through the Safe Space hedge left around, or into your Dominating Tendrils, or whatever. Still works on flyers or those outside the area, so its original use is left intact.

Part of the issue I had with it in Entangle are that a) it seems to imply actively directing active plants, which is something we've been moving into Dominion, and b) the behavior of "someone thinks they're safe outside the entangle zone- hah no they aren't" is pretty much covered by Overgrowth creating more entangle over your chosen target.

Whenever I see any ability posited, I try to imagine myself using it in a game and designating a specific space that they are pull into is something I can definitely see using and like a lot. That is way better than just pulling in from the edge.

I added Grasping Vines to the Dominion Adaptations list - I didn't even rename it :smalltongue:

I removed Entangled Reach.

For Entangled Canopy, do you think the total concealment aspect should be removed? Perhaps put an action cost to it instead? Maybe a standard action to activate concealment and then another standard action to upgrade it to total concealment?

aimlessPolymath
2017-02-28, 12:23 PM
I would say that allowing total concealment steps on rogue's toes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/stealth/) a bit. Not a lot, technically (Stealth makes creatures "not aware" of you in addition to giving total concealment, thus allowing sneak attack more explicitly), but a bit. If you want to keep it, make it take 20 ft of distance (matching the general pattern for fog and similar effects) for total concealment, but make it automatic or decided when you create the field, matching our general pattern of not interacting much directly with Entangle after it's thrown down.

Kaskus
2017-02-28, 10:52 PM
I am not married to the total concealment idea and am fine with leaving it out. Hedge Maze still gives the Verdure something with which to use their Greater Wild Sight ability.

I have added Entangled Canopy to the Entangle Adaptations list.

Also, Swallower added to Plant Forms

Expanded Spell Blossom added to Blossom Adaptations list

Some New Adaptation Ideas:

1. Assimilate (Companion):
As a full-round action, your companion can consume undergrowth or bushy plant matter it’s currently touching and incorporate that material into its form. It can do this at a rate of 5 cubic feet per round, healing 1d8 points of damage each time. If the companion is at maximum hit points, this ability has no effect.

2. Sprout (Companion, Pinnacle?):
Your companion sheds, small pieces of itself (could also be seeds) which quickly grow into sprouts
{Insert Sprout Stats Here} *** This ability was inspired by Cell from Dragon Ball Z

3. Breath Weapon (Companion, Pinnacle?):
Your companion breaths forth a cone of hallucinagenic spores. Save or become Confused?
*** Should be a major condition since its a pinnacle adaptation.

4. Life Link (Companion):
Your companion takes 1/2 your damage and vice versa. Healing one of you affects both.

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-01, 12:54 AM
I would give a definite yes to Life Link (you can take some wording from shield other), a tentative yes on Assimilate (It's a bit of an odd name), would like to discuss Sprout, and don't like Breath Weapon on the grounds that plants don't have lungs.

Life Link: Seems like it should be an optional power. "Whenever you or your companion take damage or are healed, you may choose to redirect up to half the damage or healing to the other".

Assimilate is a nice healing power, but mixes being somewhat limited (not a lot, given your class features) with being somewhat confusing- not all plants are carnivorous, or have mouths. What about "Graft: As a full-round action, your companion can graft a piece of adjacent plant life onto itself. This heals it of 1d6 hit points, and grants it one of the following effects:
-Vine: The companion gains a +2 bonus to climb checks.
-Flower: The companion gains a +2 bonus to charisma checks.
-Tree or tree branch: The companion gains a +1 bonus to natural armor.
&etc.
The companion can only have one ability from this class feature at once. Whenever it grafts a new piece of plant matter, it loses the previous ability it possessed."
You could make a nice tie-in with Greenguard plant genus in there, too.

Sprout could be a pretty good ability, I'm just not entirely sure how it will work. A quick google gave me a few options (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/fungoid/) for the kind of creature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/leshy-template/) which pops out (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/plantoid-servitor-fgg/). Alternatively, you could have it call up 1- or 2- or whatever-HD versions of the companion, which might be much more appropriate.

Breath Weapon doesn't feel like it fits the class very well- it focuses on crowd control via debuffs rather than battlefield control via summonings and area effects. The class has relatively little of the former, but a whole lot of the latter. Plus, no lungs.

Kaskus
2017-03-01, 10:39 PM
I would give a definite yes to Life Link (you can take some wording from shield other), a tentative yes on Assimilate (It's a bit of an odd name), would like to discuss Sprout, and don't like Breath Weapon on the grounds that plants don't have lungs.

Life Link: Seems like it should be an optional power. "Whenever you or your companion take damage or are healed, you may choose to redirect up to half the damage or healing to the other".

Optional = Good

Life Link (Companion):
As long as her companion is within level x 5 feet of the Verdure, she may choose to evenly split damage from any wounds and attacks directed at herself or her companion (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage between them. The Verdure may make this choice each time damage would be dealt to her or her companion. Forms of harm that do not involve hit points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, level draining, and death effects, are not affected. If either the Verdure or her companion suffer a reduction of hit points from a lowered Constitution score, the reduction may not be split because it is not hit point damage. Similarly, the Verdure may choose to evenly split any hit points healed by an effect or ability targeting herself or her companion.



Assimilate is a nice healing power, but mixes being somewhat limited (not a lot, given your class features) with being somewhat confusing- not all plants are carnivorous, or have mouths. What about "Graft: As a full-round action, your companion can graft a piece of adjacent plant life onto itself. This heals it of 1d6 hit points, and grants it one of the following effects:
-Vine: The companion gains a +2 bonus to climb checks.
-Flower: The companion gains a +2 bonus to charisma checks.
-Tree or tree branch: The companion gains a +1 bonus to natural armor.
&etc.
The companion can only have one ability from this class feature at once. Whenever it grafts a new piece of plant matter, it loses the previous ability it possessed."
You could make a nice tie-in with Greenguard plant genus in there, too.

I don't think a mouth is needed to consume something, they could absorb it. I actually completely stole the Assimilate power from the Living Topiary, including the name: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/living-topiary/

With that said, I think I still like the name but i also like the idea of tying it in with the Genus/Species concept from the Greenguard. Also, I don't think the healing about needs to be nerfed due to the bonus...

Assimilate (Companion):
As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, your companion can absorb undergrowth or bushy plant matter it’s currently touching and incorporate that material into its form. It can do this at a rate of 5 cubic feet per round, healing 1d8 points of damage each time. If the companion is at maximum hit points, this ability has no effect. Additionally, your companion gains a small bonus based on the type of plant material incorporated:
Vines: +2 Bonus to Climb Checks
Flowers:+2 Bonus to Charisma Checks
Trees & Woody Plants: +1 Natural Armor Bonus
Fungi: +2 to Fortitude Saves
Succulents: Fire Resistance 5
*Other effects, depending on the plants incorporated, might be possible at GM discretion
The companion may have only 1 bonus from this ability at a time. Any previous bonuses end when the companion uses this ability again or the next day, whichever comes first.

What do you think of that?


Sprout could be a pretty good ability, I'm just not entirely sure how it will work. A quick google gave me a few options (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/fungoid/) for the kind of creature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/leshy-template/) which pops out (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/plantoid-servitor-fgg/). Alternatively, you could have it call up 1- or 2- or whatever-HD versions of the companion, which might be much more appropriate.

I really like the leshy since there are multiple types that you could use to keep in theme with the companion (Flytrap for Carnivorous Flower, Gourd for Crawling Vine, Fungus for Puffball and Leaf for Sapling Treant). Since they also have varied HD, you could give a HD limit and that would let the player customize quality/quantity.

What do you think about Level + Cha Mod HD worth of Leshy for a Pinnacle adaptation? Such as...

Sprout (Companion, Pinnacle):
Once per day, as a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, your companion may sprout lesser minions. This can take the form of buds that are shed from the companions body, seeds that quickly germinate or some other mechanism appropriate for a plant. The sprouts do not act in the round during which they are created and take the form of Leshys. You may have your companion sprout leshys with total hit dice of no more than your Verdure level + your Charisma modifier. You may select the quantity and type(s) of leshys produced so long as their total HD do not exceed this limit. Leshys created with this ability last for 1 minute per Verdure level, after which time they wilt into piles of dead plant matter.

Questions:
1. How do you feel about how often it being once per day?
2. Should the sprouts be able to act immediately?
3. How do you feel about the duration?


Breath Weapon doesn't feel like it fits the class very well- it focuses on crowd control via debuffs rather than battlefield control via summonings and area effects. The class has relatively little of the former, but a whole lot of the latter. Plus, no lungs.

I am on board for your thinking. This was my least favorite of the bunch. Nixing it.

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-01, 11:56 PM
In no order:

Life Link looks fine to me. I think you could cut the wording a little:

Life Link (Companion):
As long as her companion is within level x 5 60 feet of the Verdure, she may choose to evenly split hit point damage from any wounds and attacks directed atreceived by her companion or herself (including that dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage between them. The Verdure may make this choice each time damage would be dealt to her or her companion. Forms of harm that do not involve hit points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, level draining, and death effects, are not affected. If either the Verdure or her companion suffer a reduction of hit points from a lowered Constitution score, the reduction may not be split because it is not hit point damage. Similarly, the Verdure may choose to evenly split any hit points healed by an effect or ability targeting herself or her companion.


Assimilate
Looks fine- the use of the word "consume" threw me off.


1. How do you feel about how often it being once per day?
2. Should the sprouts be able to act immediately?
3. How do you feel about the duration?

Able to act immediately: Eh. You're sacrificing your companion's actions for the round.
Duration: This reads like "one fight" to me.
Uses per day: Same. Need to decide- are X leshy a useful tool in one fight?

After thinking a bit about it, I actually don't really like the leshy as a summon- there's too much variance between the types offensively, they don't have much in the way of coherent abilities, and they don't have much in the way of good offensive options for 20th level. I'm also not sure that it really makes sense for the companion itself- having a companion means that you're essentially micromanaging a single, particular plant over the course of your career. Suddenly, the focus is shifted from the plant to a horde of creatures which it summons! It feels a little off to me. One thing we could also borrow from here, though, is the summoner- specifically, the 16th level class feature, merge forms. It feels like a spiritual mirror to our other Merge pinnacle ability (note to self- pick one from Spontaneous Stride and Merge to turn into Dominion pinnacle), too- your animal companion as power armor. (also, it would combine in a fun and cool way with the Legion + Plant Bearer combo).


The other thing that occurs to me about this is that it's actually the... third? type of minion that the verdure is throwing around, not counting the companion or the plants! There's the wooden phalanx, and the zombies, and now this. It might be a bit redundant at this point to add more, or maybe they should run on the same pool in some fashion, or we should make some kind of decision to eliminate or combine some.

If you do want to use the Leshy, I'd suggest actually looking at the specific leshy and examining how many of them are equivalent to each other; I think that this is a case where HD don't tell the full story about power levels. Fungus Leshy are a powerful tool, if anyone ever fails the Fortitude save. Flytrap leshy are the tankiest, and have an amalgam ability that means that they are pretty damn hard to take down (seriously, they can just re-fuse, and each takes an average of a bit over 1/6 its hit points in damage- you can do even better by creating one with an assload of hit points, and giving it more attacks at a surcharge of 5 HD each). Gourd Leshy can entangle people, but that's a bit redundant given the class; however, they have a little bit of Sneak Attack. Leaf leshy are just sad. So sad.

CR equivalence:
CR 4 = 1 Flytrap Leshy = 2 Fungus leshy = 3 Gourd Leshy = 8 Leaf leshy.
If we imagine CR 11 is summoned, we multiply these numbers by about 12-ish (x2 = +2, x2 = +2, x3 = +3, total +7 or so -the numbers break down at this point, really. CR 10 is x8, on the other hand- numbers get big fast. ).
12 Flytrap Leshy can combine into one super-plant with around 23 hit dice. Medium BAB means that their attack goes to be about 7 points higher, and they go up two size categores, to Large. which gives +12 strength but -2 attack. This is pretty accurate- the full attack has decent odds of hitting multiple times. On the other hand, they deal only a medium amount of damage per hit, and it's all nonmagic. On the other, other hand, it's attacking 12 times with its bite. It's a glass cannon- it has the damage output of a hydra, and more hit points (but less regeneration). Even split, it's still an assload of hit points. A good option. Even if it's only 8, it's still pretty good, really- especially since it's almost impossible to spread damage over them effectively, and they outsurvive fireball. At a HD limit, 3-5 of them is still suprisingly irritating, since their hitpoints are over the "one-hit kill" threshold for most people. Best option by far.
24 Fungus Leshy are all throwing their puffballs and charging into melee. Once they get hit in melee, there's a 5% chance of the spores hitting their killer in melee- better odds than when they attack. More likely to die from fireballs, to be honest. No other useful function. In a HD limit, you get 10-15 of them, which is less likely to apply the effect, and is pretty much death fodder.
Gourd: You get between 36 and 20 of them, depending on HD limit or not. It makes little difference. Their one ability (ensnare) is redundant because you're a Verdure. Sneak attack would be good if they had more than a -1 bonus to the melee attack roll.
Leaf: So sad. Will die in droves (between 96 and 20 of them- it doesn't really matter either way). Fireball kills them on a successful save- from maximum hit points to -12 in one spell. Most useful function is taking up space.

Note: I found the leshy subtype. It turns out that even setting it based on HD makes them a bitch to kill except in area attacks. Here's why: Verdant Burst. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types/#subtype-leshy) They're actually surprisingly good support for your companion, since their constant stream of dying will keep it topped up. That's pretty much their main function for all of them but the flytrap leshy.

Kaskus
2017-03-02, 12:08 AM
What if we make it super simple and the companion just clones itself?

EDIT:

Twin Companion (Companion, Pinnacle):
Your Companion splits and create a perfect clone of itself. You now have 2 companions.

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-02, 12:18 AM
Yeah, that's a whole lot simpler, is a lot easier to work with, and mirrors the Summoner in an appropriate manner.

Kaskus
2017-03-02, 12:27 AM
Man that was a fast response!

Also: Added Life Link to Companion Adaptations list

Added Twin Companion to the Companion and Pinancle Adaptation lists


note to self- pick one from Spontaneous Stride and Merge to turn into Dominion pinnacle

I feel like Merge works / fits best for a Dominion Pinnacle. Take out the dispel part at the end and change the entangle reference to dominion and good to go?

---

Idea for Pinnacle Fruit...

Golden Apple (Fruit, Pinnacle):
You may expend a use of your bear fruit ability to cause an affected plant to bear a single Golden Apple. Any creature that consumes a Golden Apple is affected as if by Overwhelming Presence with an effective Caster level equal to your Verdure level (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/overwhelming-presence/).

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-02, 01:10 AM
Needs a few words about how you can't maintain your Dominion while Merged, so it shrinks, but otherwise yeah (otherwise, there would be no way to harm you).

I like the fruit! Unfortunately, it doesn't work- overwhelming presence targets the affected creatures.

Apple from the Tree of Life:
A creature that consumes the affected fruit is affected by a Greater Age Resistance spell for 24 hours. Should they die during that time, they are immediately affected by Breath of Life; however, instead of its normal healing, the spell carries the effect of a Heal spell, and can restore those affected by a death effect.

On mobile so I can't italicize like I normally would- it's basically a 1-up mushroom, though. Less of an enhancing buff, more of an Apple of Immortality. Alternatively, could also throw together an apple with the power of the Hypercognition or Cosmic Awareness psionic powers for the Tree of Knowledge. Lots of utility there.

Kaskus
2017-03-02, 01:25 AM
I was trying to think of how to do an "Immortality Apple." What you propose sounds good but I am too tired to properly analyze it :smallsigh:

When I am better rested, I will take a look at the other abilities you suggest. Thanks again!

Kaskus
2017-03-02, 10:52 PM
Okay, I have now read Hypercognition and Cosmic Awareness...

I am leaning towards Cosmic Awareness for Tree of Knowledge. I like your idea for the immortality apple or Tree of Life

Would it be too much to put Tree of Life / Tree of Knowledge as one ability that lets them make one fruit or the other but to choose which time? Make it so a given creature can be affected by only one or the other once within a 24-hour period and also make only one such fruit able to be created each day?

Golden Apple (Fruit, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may use your Bear Fruit ability to create a golden apple from either the tree of life or the tree of knowledge. The effects of the apple end after 24 hours and a single creature can only be affected by one Golden Apple in a 24 hour period, regardless of which type.
Tree of Life: Any creature that consumes a Golden Apple of Life is affected as if by the Greater Age Resistance spell. Should they die during that time, they are also immediately affected as if by the Breath of Life spell; however, instead of its normal healing, the spell carries the effect of a maximized Heal spell, and can restore those affected by death effects.
Tree of Knowledge: Any creature that consumed a Golden Apple of Knowledge is affected as if by a maximized version of the Cosmic Awareness psionic discipline.

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-03, 12:47 AM
Sounds fine!
Note that Cosmic Awareness is actually literally Moment of Prescience, so renaming it is probably a good idea to make it SRD-compatible. Maximized doesn't mean much in rules- do you mean the hours/level version?

1/day makes sense.

I like the Pinnacle overall.

Kaskus
2017-03-03, 08:19 PM
I wasn't thinking properly of how maximize works, i think. My intent was to grant the +25 bonus, which is the maximum bonus possible. Since the Verdure doesn't have a proper "caster level," any caster level effects need to be defined in the power. BMB is the stand in but I wanted to boost it a little bit from the +15 that would give them...

Golden Apple (Fruit, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may use your Bear Fruit ability to create a golden apple from either the tree of life or the tree of knowledge. The effects of the apple end after 24 hours and a single creature can only be affected by one Golden Apple in a 24 hour period, regardless of which type.
Tree of Life: Any creature that consumes a Golden Apple of Life is affected as if by the Greater Age Resistance spell. Should they die during that time, they are also immediately affected as if by the Breath of Life spell; however, instead of its normal healing, the spell carries the effect of a maximized Heal spell, and can restore those affected by death effects.
Tree of Knowledge: Any creature that consumed a Golden Apple of Knowledge is granted a sixth sense. One time while under the effect of a Golden Apple of Knowledge, you may gain a +25 insight bonus on any single attack roll, combat maneuver check, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw. Alternatively, you can apply the insight bonus to your AC against a single attack (even if flat-footed). Activating the effect doesn't take an action; you can even activate it on another character's turn. You must choose to use this ability before you make the roll it is to modify. Once used, the effect ends.


I just went ahead and put the full effect in the description. What do you think?

---

EDIT / ADDITION:

Merge (Domain, Pinnacle):
You gain the ability to merge with the area affected by your Aura of Dominion. When using Merge, you literally become one with your dominion. As a move action you may merge into your dominion and may stay merged as long as you desire or rematerialize at any point withing the area as a move action. While merged, you may still use any of your senses or abilities as though you occupied any square of the dominion, though it's center remains static so long you you are merged. Once you rematerialize, your aura of dominion shifts such that you are once more at its center.

What do you think of the Dominion version of Merge?

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-04, 12:15 AM
Golden Apple is perfect- just need to change Tree of Knowledge effect to third person ("You" vs. "Any creature who consumes... they can... ")

Merge looks great; it's missing an equivalent to the other Merge in terms of ways to remove it/counterplay. Two things:
-To distinguish it from spontaneous stride, what if you can only reappear in the center of the Dominion?
-What do you think of "anyone who dispels the center of your Dominion immediately forces you to rematerialize + you take some damage" as a downside?
Picture it: A team of adventurers are forced to fight their way through continuous layers of the hedge maze, past conjured Plants and the efforts of the Verdure to disrupt and disorient them, only to reach the center. Then, they dispel Merge, and the final battle begins.

Kaskus
2017-03-04, 10:03 AM
Aura of Dominion is a Supernatural ability and thus, not subject to dispel magic. Adaptations are likewise supernatural, which is why i took the part out about being ejected by dispel. Entangle is a Spell like ability so it could be dispelled.

Do you think Aura of Dominion should be a Spell Like ability rather than a Supernatural ability?
- Not my favorite option

Why wouldn't they dispel it before hacking their way through the hedge maze?

Perhaps we specify that the Merge ability specifically is Spell Like?
- I like this better than making the whole domain (Sp).

Thoughts?

---

Golden Apple has been added to the Fruit Adaptations list and the Pinnacle Adaptations list.

Once we get merge figured out, that will give us a dominion pinnacle. After that, Blossom will be the only category without one. For Blossom, do you think the Pinnacle should add higher level spells or modify the way blossom works in some way like the ability to select a metamagic feat and apply it for free?

What about an ability to make a transformative blossom which grants you plant traits similar to the 20th level verdant bloodline ability? Your Body becomes a seed and 1 day later a plant grows in your likeness and becomes your new body. Something like that? Is that too abstract for Blossom?

This is the 20th level Verdant Bloodline Ability...

Shepherd of the Trees (Su): At 20th level, your verdant heritage fully manifests. You gain a +4 natural armor bonus. You gain immunity to paralysis, poison, polymorph, sleep, and stunning, and you gain tremorsense 30 feet even when not rooted.

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-04, 07:22 PM
We could make the Merge abillity spelllike- that would make the most sense.
They would have to make their way through because (unless I misworded it) it's only ended when they dispel the origin point of the Dominion- the Dominion/merge is effectively maintained by that point. It's analogous to the fact that you have to cast dispel magic on the source of a continuous spell effect (such as a constant magic item) to disable the effect, sorta.

My immediate reaction to the transformative blossom/resurrection ability is that it doesn' t match the rest of the class feature well. Spell Blossom as we used it is basically where we shoved a whole lot of crowd-control and debuff abilities, making it the offensive counterpart to Fruit- I feel like the pinnacle ability should reflect that.
Borrowing the idea of a 1/day alpha strike from Fruit:
Spell Garden: (even if we change the ability, can we use the name somewhere?)
Once per day, as a full-round action, you may expend a use of Spell Blossom to create a storm of magic. When you do, you simultaneously cast each spell you could cast through Spell Blossom. The areas of the spells may not overlap. No two spells can target the same creature.

It's possibly unbalanced.

Kaskus
2017-03-04, 08:06 PM
Not thinking about balance right now...

What if Spell Garden is an area affect that makes a "mine field" of sorts. You grow a field of spell blossoms and whenever someone moves through a square of it, they have to make a save. If they fail, you select any spell blossom effect you know and they are affected by it? You get to make the selection each time it is triggered and they incur a possible effect every time they move within the area. You could also make it stop their movement like an attack of opportunity. That would make the area very difficult and dangerous to pass though. If that is too much, maybe they can move 5 ft at a time safely?

Kaskus
2017-03-04, 11:35 PM
We could make the Merge abillity spelllike- that would make the most sense.
They would have to make their way through because (unless I misworded it) it's only ended when they dispel the origin point of the Dominion- the Dominion/merge is effectively maintained by that point. It's analogous to the fact that you have to cast dispel magic on the source of a continuous spell effect (such as a constant magic item) to disable the effect, sorta.

Dispel Magic can be used to dispel area effects but says nothing about needing to target the center of such an effect. Also the range on dispel magic is greater than the radius of an aura is likely to be so the center could be targeted from outside the area anyhow. At 5th level, when a Verdure gets the aura and also when a wizard would get access to dispel magic - the aura will have a radius of 10 ft., while the dispel magic has a range of 150 ft. At level 20, the aura is 40 ft and the dispel magic is 300 ft.

With that said, I do think a way of forcefully ejecting them is a good idea but I am not sure how to implement it in a way that is satisfying (to me). Maybe they leave a mark at the center where they merge (like the design that the rainbow bridge leaves in the Thor movie). Damaging the sign could eject the Verdure. It would prevent it from being range-dispelled and would require an enemy target the center specifically. Still subject to ranged attacks but it would force them to target the center, which they may not be able to see due to hedge maze, etc.

What do you think of that?

Am I misreading or misunderstanding dispel?

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-04, 11:44 PM
Honestly, I'd be OK with that being a normal spell blossom ability- a mix between the delayed blossoms and attacks of opportunity (detonate as an immediate action?). It would be an interesting effect which ties into the Verdure's staple battlefield control, and it could act as a sort of soft area denial- "don't go here or else".
Other things that could be built into it- say, the ability for someone with Knowledge(nature) to identify that a spell blossom is unusual, and to ID the specific spell?

It's an interesting ability with some neat counterplay. I think it should come in earlier.

My angle on pinnacle abilities is that either they're the ultimate version of whatever the class does. Plant specialists toss out all their plants at once, Entangle specialists take their movement advantage to the highest level, Companion spec gains even more companions, etc. I don't think it should do anything really new, just supporting using the existing ability to its utmost.

Edit: Whoops, missed that you posted twice.
Damaging the source sounds like as good an option as any. Do also note that the verdure can increase the radius of the Dominion by spending multiple move actions!

Re: magic items: While you can dispel a spell normally (such as an area effect), a magic item with a continuous effect on the user (like with the ring of water walking) will automaticall recreate the effect- thus, you need to dispel the magic item to turn it off.

Kaskus
2017-03-05, 01:39 AM
How about a hybrid adaptation...

Spell Garden (Blossom / Entangle):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
You expend a use of your Entangle ability to create a Spell Garden. The area you may affect is the same as that which would be affected by your Entangle ability. Any creature that moves through any space within the Spell Garden must succeed at a reflex save at the same difficulty as your Entangle ability. If a creature fails its save, you may expend a use of Improved Spell Blossom as a free action to cause them to be affected by any effect you can create with your Improved Spell Blossom ability. The effected creature does not get a separate save against the effect although if there would be additional saves in later rounds for persistent effects, they may attempt those saves as normal.

Entangle contributes the "affect an area of plants" effect but the way that area is affected is flavored by spell blossom instead.

What do you think?

We could make an upgrade that allows you to use Greater Spell Blossoms with it as well.

That brings us back to needing a Spell Blossom Pinnacle...

Spell Bouquet (Blossom, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may expend a use of your Greater Spell Blossom ability to create a Spell Bouquet containing a number of spell blossoms up to your charisma modifier which may be selected form any of the spell blossom effects you know from any of your spell blossom abilities. The bouquet may be activated in the same manner as a spell blossom but it triggers all of its effects simultaneously. if it targets a creature, they must make separate saves for each spell blossom effect that calls for a save.


Re: magic items: While you can dispel a spell normally (such as an area effect), a magic item with a continuous effect on the user (like with the ring of water walking) will automaticall recreate the effect- thus, you need to dispel the magic item to turn it off.

Do we need to specify then that the "mark" is treated as a magic item and that the merge effect is tied to it specifically? How do you think that is best worded?

Kaskus
2017-03-08, 12:36 AM
UPDATES!

Spell Garden & Greater Spell Garden added to the Entangle and Spell Blossom Adaptations lists

Spell Bouquet added to the Spell Blossom and Pinnacle Adaptations lists

Entangle version of Merge replaced with Domain version

---

I plan on developing a couple more fruit adaptations. I would like to add a couple more blossom adaptations as well (It's currently the only category with less than 10 adaptations).

I would love it if anyone could take a look at the class as a whole freshly and provide any feedback.

@Aimless: Are there any notes / suggestions / etc. that I failed to acknowledge or address or anything you feel still needs to be worked on?

My dream would be for someone to get one of these at their table and send me some playtest feedback!

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-08, 10:31 AM
Spell Bouquet + Spell Garden looks good!
I have no outstanding issues with the class. If I had to nitpick, I might flesh out the Spell Blossom list into a full-fledged spell list-like structure, with short descriptions and maybe links. I might also copy and paste most of the text of entangle and the entangled condition into a spoiler under the Entangle class feature.


Do we need to specify then that the "mark" is treated as a magic item and that the merge effect is tied to it specifically? How do you think that is best worded?
Mmm...
"The center of your Dominion controls this effect, and is treated as an active spell for effects which could end ongoing spells; for this purpose, its spell level is 1/2 your Verdure level, and its caster level is your Verdure level. When the effect is ended in this way, you immediately return to a corporeal form in the center of your Dominion."

Unfortunately, a whole lot of homebrew never gets playtested, as far as I know. I'm in college and can't test it during the week, but if you throw together a couple of sample characters (say, level 1, level 7, level 12, or maybe just 7 and 12) I can try and test them in a quick party with some of the iconic characters in a few encounters.

I can also go through the whole class like I did the first time, and try and give feedback from a "guidebook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.0)" perspective.

Kaskus
2017-03-08, 10:50 PM
UPDATES:

Added verbiage to Merge regarding dispel mechanics.

Added Merciful Fruit and Improved/Greater versions to Fruit Adaptations list

Added an automatic upgrade to Healing Fruit at BMB 11

Entangled Spell Text and Condition Text added to spoilers beneath Entangle Ability

Started adding links / descriptions to Spell Blossom List

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-10, 01:06 AM
Healing Fruit now goes from 15 to 100 in one level flat (if two levels after the cleric)
Cure Serious -> Cure Critical at BMB 6, first.

Also, I have now learned about Blend and Discovery Torch for the first time.

Merciful fruit might be somewhat too specific- unless you run into one condition A LOT, it won't be very useful (other than maybe the Healer's Handbook stuff). Maybe grant all three of the basic benefits (Fatigued/Shaken/Sickened), and all three of the 6th level options (Dazed/Diseased/Staggered).

Kaskus
2017-03-10, 09:35 PM
Healing Fruit now goes from 15 to 100 in one level flat (if two levels after the cleric)
Cure Serious -> Cure Critical at BMB 6, first.

Healing Fruit Edited. I made it even simpler and had the healing scale with BMB. Check it out and let me know what you think. It maxes out a little weaker than heal but is way more flexible than the previous version.


Also, I have now learned about Blend and Discovery Torch for the first time.

Yay!


Merciful fruit might be somewhat too specific- unless you run into one condition A LOT, it won't be very useful (other than maybe the Healer's Handbook stuff). Maybe grant all three of the basic benefits (Fatigued/Shaken/Sickened), and all three of the 6th level options (Dazed/Diseased/Staggered).

I almost did this and worries it stepped on Paladin but I agree that its not viable without it. The Merciful Fruit chain has been updated.

Question: Is this chain worth 3 adaptations or should they be rolled into 1 with the bumps happening at designated BMB or level points?

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-10, 11:41 PM
Healing Fruit looks good now. It's not stepping on Merciful's toes as hard, either, given how Heal cures conditions.

Merciful: They probably shouldn't all be in the same adaptation, no. This is primarily because of the ability to remove disease, which is a campaign-affecting ability. I might decompose Improved into the other two, though- Staggered goes down a step, Diseased and Dazed go up one, then set a level minimum for Greater.

Kaskus
2017-03-11, 10:53 AM
Rolled Staggered into the base Merciful Fruit and everything else into Greater Merciful Fruit. I made the more potent condition removals kick in at BMB 7, which is Verdure level 10.

Bear Fruit is acquired at level 3 so if you took the extra adaptation feat then to get healing fruit, you could take merciful fruit at level 4 (1 level after Paladin gets those mercies) and greater merciful fruit at level 6 (same level as Paladin). The more potent removals for greater would still not kick in until level 10 (1 level behind Paladin).

---

In other news, I finished the formatting and linking on the Improved Spell Blossom list. I will try and have the Greater Spell Blossom list finished by the end of the weekend.

I also added the description for Black Tentacles under Vine Field for reference. I will also try to put in the spell references for the other spell like abilities before the weekend is up.

If I get really ambitious (or really bored), I will also try to add stats for the wood golems under Verdant Entourage.

Eventually, I will put some sample character stats together as well

---

EDIT: Greater Spell Blossom List also formatted / linked!

Kaskus
2017-03-11, 08:06 PM
UPDATES:

All Spell Blossom Lists are formatted and linked!
All spell like abilities have their relevant spells listed
The stats for the Advanced Wood Golems created by Verdant Entourage have also been added

Phew!

Am I still missing anything?

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-11, 10:41 PM
I don't think so!
I'll start writing my reread- it will likely take a while to do. My first review of this class took a bit over a day (I'll deal with your questions on the Greenguard later), and I'm juggling some other reviews (there's a great Sorcerer rewrite going on) and also classwork.
Key things to consider:
How many situations can this class deal with?
How well can it deal with them?

Post will be edited as I proceed.

Base Class Analysis:
Chassis: d8 hit die, a few relevant skills, wizard-class proficiencies, average BAB, but two good saves. It's solid- the combination of medium BAB but poor proficiencies is somewhat unusual, though.

Class features by level:
1st level:

There are multiple abilities gained at this level, two of which are the same ability. It's confusing in the table, although not in the text. Perhaps combine them in some form? Plant(1, 1d6) all the way to Plant(5, 10d6), or add a column to indicate damage by level- it's a bit cluttered as it is. It should probably have immunity to ability damage/drain, or have all ability scores nonabilities, or something, though. However, they have 0 hit points at this level by RAW.

Entangle: This is a medium-nasty ability, which includes a pretty great debuff. Level 3 upgrade is in text but not table. It mentions BMB, which should probably be written out somewhere. It's a really nice spell, especially once you get the ability to let your allies ignore it.

Spell Blossom: It's cantrips! I really really like that you linked the spells and included their descriptions- many spell lists just give them out and forget about it. Fairly variable uses. It does give a whole lot of minor options, where most casters only know a few cantrips.


2:

You get an Adaptation here, which is nice. I'll go over the good/bad picks later.
You also get Mystic Stride, which is very nice in verdure vs. verdure combat, but slightly redundant otherwise. Also, the text says 4th level but the table says 2nd.


3:

First damage upgrade, important to keep up with martials. You also get Bear Fruit, which by default is sort of a very limited ability? It's a good level for the damage upgrade, which is sorely needed, but Bear Fruit is incredibly weak- to add insult to injury, it's only once per day, and you get it infrequently. Adaptations help it, but it's very weak without adaptations in a way which other abilities aren't.


4:

Trackless step- nice fluff ability.
Verdant stride: It's a neat ability, if somewhat weak-ish? Mobility is nice, but it's less of a focus for this class. Nice to have, but not critical.
Buuut, more adaptations!


5:

More damage, and more plants, and Plant Bond- this is a good level, more than previous ones.
Aura of Dominion is decent-ish. Punishing people for moving too much is a neat flip side from Entangle.
Plant Companions are very nice. Somewhat fragile at this level, though? Also, Entangle focused people basically can't take it unless they're very sure about the campaign, since Dominion is the one which guarantees plant life for Entangle to work.


Notes so far: The class is extremely combat-focused so far. There are two noncombat abilities (other than the mobility ones), Spell Blossom and Bear Fruit, and one of them is basically cantrips, and the other is very weak at this point. Outside combat, they don't have much to do.
I'd like to see Verdant Stride slightly tweaked to give a slightly more team-oriented ability set- perhaps Canyon Stride lets them generate some form of ramps, or Vertical Stride lets them cover a wall with plant life to let other people climb it too? Arboreal Stride could be adjusted to be a somewhat later level ability which gives some kind of virtual fly speed (self only) at some later level by having nearby plants lift up the player and carry them around. "Move normally through them" isn't very explicit, and sounds like Woodland Stride.
Bear Fruit is really, really disappointing without adaptation investment- it does practically nothing useful. I'd like to see it give some minor special benefit- maybe a +2 bonus to Fortitude saves for an hour, for example, which would make it a minor defensive buff. (Also, an apple a day keeps the doctor away.)

6:
Adaptations are nice. This is the first opportunity to get one for your Plant Bond, but it's in an unconfortable position, because this is also the first opportunity to get one for Spell Blossom, which you just got.
Imp. Spell Blossom: This is in a slightly strange position because it turns out to not be spellcasting equivalent. Instead, you need to "prepare spells" a minute before combat by creating the blossoms with one ability, then use them with a separate standard action. It's not spontaneous casting like it looks. That, or the mechanics of Spell Blossom need to be reworked.

7:

This ability is also in an odd position, because it basically looks like Spell Blossom. Also, it is a tremendously useful lockdown spell. References Friendly Entangle, which doesn't exist. Damage up again is nice.

8:

Woodland Sight is nice, especially with some Entangle powers, but limited otherwise. Verdant Stride: See level 4. Adaptation is the standout at this level, really.


9:

Speak With Plants: Oh ho ho. This is the most general-utility option I've seen so far, really... which is a little sad, actually.
Damage up is nice.


10:

Fast Plant is nice for Plant users, less so for others, but it's needed because you now have your fifth plant. Adaptation is the best thing Entanglers are getting at this point, although the degree to which you can stack on Entangle adaptations keeps it going pretty well.


Notes so far:
Noncombat options are looking a little better now- not a lot, though. It's unclear to what extent Aura of Dominion extends above the ground- it looks like it could be either way, really. Entangle needs plant-generation outside of Aura of Dominion. Spell Blossom mechanics need to be explained- are they still the same as the basic spell blossom? The way it works is confusing, and is subpar compared to normal SLAs. Intentional?

Kaskus
2017-03-13, 11:12 PM
First: Thank you so much for doing this - Again!


Base Class Analysis:
Chassis: d8 hit die, a few relevant skills, wizard-class proficiencies, average BAB, but two good saves. It's solid- the combination of medium BAB but poor proficiencies is somewhat unusual, though.

The medium BAB was there primarily due to the original chassis being Druidish and the first version using the characters BAB for the Plants. Since that has been changed, do you think 1/2 BAB is more appropriate? I am fine with 1/2.


1st level:
There are multiple abilities gained at this level, two of which are the same ability. It's confusing in the table, although not in the text. Perhaps combine them in some form? Plant(1, 1d6) all the way to Plant(5, 10d6), or add a column to indicate damage by level- it's a bit cluttered as it is. It should probably have immunity to ability damage/drain, or have all ability scores nonabilities, or something, though. However, they have 0 hit points at this level by RAW.

Added a plant damage column to the table.
Plants are objects so have no ability scores
Changed HP to Verdure level x Cha Mod


Entangle: This is a medium-nasty ability, which includes a pretty great debuff. Level 3 upgrade is in text but not table. It mentions BMB, which should probably be written out somewhere. It's a really nice spell, especially once you get the ability to let your allies ignore it.

Added a note regarding BMB
Added the level 3 upgrade to the table


Spell Blossom: It's cantrips! I really really like that you linked the spells and included their descriptions- many spell lists just give them out and forget about it. Fairly variable uses. It does give a whole lot of minor options, where most casters only know a few cantrips.

In regards to the various Spell Blossom abilities, I kind of initially imagined it as "optional spontaneous casting." The idea (which I now realize I didn't include in the write up) was that these could be grown on the Verdure themselves. Thus, you could grow them all at the beginning of the day (prepared) or you could grow them on the fly (spontaneous) but at the cost of actions in combat. I have added verbiage to the initial ability that I hope makes that clear?


2:
You get an Adaptation here, which is nice. I'll go over the good/bad picks later.
You also get Mystic Stride, which is very nice in verdure vs. verdure combat, but slightly redundant otherwise. Also, the text says 4th level but the table says 2nd.

Mystic stride does a couple things. It allows the Verdure to be unhindered within their own Entangle effects a level prior to their allies being able to do so. It also acts as Woodland Stride with the added bonus that it still works if the area is magically manipulated. If no manipulation, it still helps with mundane difficult terrain.


3:
First damage upgrade, important to keep up with martials. You also get Bear Fruit, which by default is sort of a very limited ability? It's a good level for the damage upgrade, which is sorely needed, but Bear Fruit is incredibly weak- to add insult to injury, it's only once per day, and you get it infrequently. Adaptations help it, but it's very weak without adaptations in a way which other abilities aren't.

Two ideas to assist Bear Fruit:
1. Add charisma mod in uses per day
2. Give a free Bear Fruit Adaptation with it when the ability is gained.


4:
Trackless step- nice fluff ability.
Verdant stride: It's a neat ability, if somewhat weak-ish? Mobility is nice, but it's less of a focus for this class. Nice to have, but not critical.
Buuut, more adaptations!


There is an ability at level 15:
Verdant Construct (Sp): You may create bridges, ramps, ladders and other such means of conveyance. You may create a bridge of plants between any two points whose distance does not exceed your movement. Creatures may move at their normal movement rate across such creations. You may dismiss these creations as a free action.

What if that was given at level 4 and the last stride at level 15 instead?


5:
More damage, and more plants, and Plant Bond- this is a good level, more than previous ones.
Aura of Dominion is decent-ish. Punishing people for moving too much is a neat flip side from Entangle.
Plant Companions are very nice. Somewhat fragile at this level, though? Also, Entangle focused people basically can't take it unless they're very sure about the campaign, since Dominion is the one which guarantees plant life for Entangle to work.

Plant Companion is 1 level behind Ranger (gained 1 level later). Should it be level-3 to be in line with Ranger?

How about expending 2 uses of Entangle if no plant life is around? If you take dominion later, it is solved. If you take the Fertile Entangle adaptation, it is solved. If it doesn't come up that often, you live with paying double for those times that it does. Does that sound okay?


Notes so far: The class is extremely combat-focused so far. There are two noncombat abilities (other than the mobility ones), Spell Blossom and Bear Fruit, and one of them is basically cantrips, and the other is very weak at this point. Outside combat, they don't have much to do.

I had an idea for 2 non-combat abilities earlier today...

Plant Empathy: You may use your Handle Animal Skill on plants creatures with an intelligence of 1 or 2.

Green Thumb: You gain a +2 Insight bonus on any skill check that involves plants (+2 to Climb if using plants to do so, +2 Knowledge (nature) if the question is plant based, etc.).
Note: I had originally intended this as a possible class feature for the Greenguard. Perhaps they could both have it. Perhaps the could both have both of these abilities?


I'd like to see Verdant Stride slightly tweaked to give a slightly more team-oriented ability set- perhaps Canyon Stride lets them generate some form of ramps, or Vertical Stride lets them cover a wall with plant life to let other people climb it too? Arboreal Stride could be adjusted to be a somewhat later level ability which gives some kind of virtual fly speed (self only) at some later level by having nearby plants lift up the player and carry them around. "Move normally through them" isn't very explicit, and sounds like Woodland Stride.

Bear Fruit is really, really disappointing without adaptation investment- it does practically nothing useful. I'd like to see it give some minor special benefit- maybe a +2 bonus to Fortitude saves for an hour, for example, which would make it a minor defensive buff. (Also, an apple a day keeps the doctor away.)

See Remarks for these abilities above and let me know if you think that solves them. The +2 Fort bonus is somewhat intriguing. Do you think that could be in addition to the normal Goodberry effect without being too much?


6:
Adaptations are nice. This is the first opportunity to get one for your Plant Bond, but it's in an uncomfortable position, because this is also the first opportunity to get one for Spell Blossom, which you just got.
Imp. Spell Blossom: This is in a slightly strange position because it turns out to not be spellcasting equivalent. Instead, you need to "prepare spells" a minute before combat by creating the blossoms with one ability, then use them with a separate standard action. It's not spontaneous casting like it looks. That, or the mechanics of Spell Blossom need to be reworked.

I think having to choose which ability to select an adaptation for is okay.
See earlier comments / changes to Spell Blossom. Do you think that solves this issue?


7:
This ability is also in an odd position, because it basically looks like Spell Blossom. Also, it is a tremendously useful lockdown spell. References Friendly Entangle, which doesn't exist. Damage up again is nice.

Removed reference to Friendly Entangle. Since that ability was rolled into the base Entangle ability, I have added it to the base Vine Field ability as well.


8:
Woodland Sight is nice, especially with some Entangle powers, but limited otherwise. Verdant Stride: See level 4. Adaptation is the standout at this level, really.

See previous comment regarding Verdant Stride and swapping Verdant Construct


9:
Speak With Plants: Oh ho ho. This is the most general-utility option I've seen so far, really... which is a little sad, actually.
Damage up is nice.

See previous comments on new utility ability ideas and addition of verdant construct at lower level. Do you think those toegether give enough out of combat oomph?


10:
Fast Plant is nice for Plant users, less so for others, but it's needed because you now have your fifth plant. Adaptation is the best thing Entanglers are getting at this point, although the degree to which you can stack on Entangle adaptations keeps it going pretty well.

Notes so far:
Noncombat options are looking a little better now- not a lot, though. It's unclear to what extent Aura of Dominion extends above the ground- it looks like it could be either way, really. Entangle needs plant-generation outside of Aura of Dominion. Spell Blossom mechanics need to be explained- are they still the same as the basic spell blossom? The way it works is confusing, and is subpar compared to normal SLAs. Intentional?

Added a qualifier that improved/greater spell blossoms work the same way the original ability's blossoms do.

Added a line to aura of dominion regarding the plantlife being generated

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-14, 07:30 PM
I return! Not quoting replies because laziness.
Spell Blossom: Ah! The plants last indefinitely until you pick them as a swift action. That's good, then.

Bear Fruit's problems are attached to two things. The first is the limited uses/day. The second is that they are attached to a pretty awful spell, which can only heal any given person for 8 hp per day. Adding the +2 Fort bonus would make them a little relevant at higher levels.

Noncombat abilities: I like the first one a bunch (Wild Empathy on plants?), the second one less well- static skill bonuses don't help a lot unless the plant is any better at

I would move Plant Companion/Dominion down a level, in-line with Ranger. This also gives it get Adaptations a little earlier.

On double-use of Entangle: That sounds good!

Verdant Construct is good, really nice but not super overpowered (maybe add a way to destroy the ramps). It doesn't need to go to 4, but making the mobility upgrades available to others who might make better use of it is the big thing (Vertical Stride letting you grow ivy handholds on a wall I am suddenly very attached to). Could definitely see it in Verdant Stride.

On Speak With Plants: It would be acceptable, if you added something more before 9th level- say, the Plant Empathy thingy. The lack of versatility at low levels lends a lot to the mood of the class. Also consider Wood Shape as a SLA.

Trying not to get caught up in replies because I'm still going through the class and have other things to do (including .

Level 11:

Commune with Nature: Love the divination.


Level 12:

Adaptation: Goood.
Imp. Woodland Sight: This is a nice upgrade. Very nice, actually- it's basically x-ray vision through plants.
Verdant Stride: I actually don't like this a ton at this point. It's not a huge upgrade, and I kinda think that only getting 2/3 would let verdures be a little more distinct. Not hugely attached to that opinion, though.



L13:

Animate Plants: Nice power. I do note that there are a number of Cha/day abilities, which might blend together a little bit- suggest combining their uses/day in some way. What happens if you use this on your created plants?


14:

G. Spell Blossom: Again, a huge fan of having the spells written out like this. There's more utility in this list, including but not limited to scrying, true seeing, summoning, and control.
Adaptation at this level is another nice help to recently learned spells


15:

Verdant Construct: See my thoughts on Verdant Stride. It's not really appropriate for this level, in my mind. Tree Stride, maybe?


16:

G. Woodland Sight: I like it. Ultra X-ray vision!
Adaptation is still good, given how many options there are.


17:

G. Vine Field- It's nice. Need to remove Friendly Entangle again.


18:

Wood golems are very nice to control the field while you set up you combos. That said, you get a lot of them. Suggest a static number- 3 or 4?.


19:

Freedom of movement fits sort of well into the class- feels a lot like woodland stride, but not quite? Could use a line of fluff to help it fit into the class better.



20

The final adaptation, and a very good one.


Notes: Level 15 feels insufficient for the level at which you get it. I suggest constant Liveoak instead of making it a G, Spell Blossom, setting up the mood for level 18 + keeping it from being a "free" spell pick + being much more level-appropriate.
Several abilities are Cha uses/day- I suggest combining them in some way to avoid tracking issues.

It will take me even longer to get through adaptations, I'm afraid- there's another class that I'd like to review (Crimson Heir), and midterms are starting up.

Kaskus
2017-03-14, 11:36 PM
Good luck on your exams! Now - UPDATES:

Changed BAB to 1/2 progression

Added Plant Empathy at level 1

Moved Plant Bond to level 4

Moved 1st Verdant Stride to level 5

Changed wording on Arboreal Stride

Added "teamwork" mechanics to Canyon Stride and Vertical Stride. I think these make Verdant Construct obsolete. I liked your idea of repalcing that with Tree Stride.

Verdant Construct replaced with Tree Stride

Wood Shape added at third level - same level as Bear Fruit so that should hel the level overall.

Added +2 Fort save to base Bear Fruit

Added maximum of 4 golems to Verdant Entourage (Just enough to carry me around in a litter).

I am considering your idea to combine the charisma per day abilities. Maybe a "Verdure's Grace" pool? What do you think of the name?

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-19, 07:13 PM
Responses delayed pending review.


Plant:
Forms! Grouping them together.
Spitter: One of few anti-air options. Poor range, sadly, but this option can essentially eliminate most placement decisions. Very useful!
Burster: It's a decent AoE and debuff, but somewhat lacking for a specialist due to lack of synergy with other Plant options, low&nonscaling damage. It could be somewhat better in a nonfocused build due to spreading a debuff.
Legion: Big Stompy! Deals lots of damage to groups, less to individuals. Unsure how the process for forgoing summoning works- do you spend successive actions boosting it (mirroring the normal Plant structure), growing it by a size each time, or spend one action, get full size? I advise the former. Possible wording:
"Overgrowth form: A plant with this form is capable of supporting further plants. Whenever you would create a plant, if this one is within range, you may instead enhance it, making it grow bigger and bigger. This increases the number of plants this plant counts as by 1, which provides benefits depending on how many plants it counts as:
{table goes here}
Web Spinner: Again, somewhat better in a nonfocused build. Somewhat redundant with the presence of the Entangle class feature.
Carnivorous: Grapple is super good! Very potent ability, especially since you don't need to maintain the grapple. Not sure if it's too good, since you can summon plants right next to key opponents like spellcasters.
Swallower: Swallow whole is even better!

Fungal Plants: It's a nice power, which synergizes with exactly one adaptation, unfortunately.
Large: Useful in combination with Combat Reflexes or as a blocker. How does it work with Legion?
Mystic Attack: A near-adaptation tax for specialists due to how important it is.
Bleed: It's... decent at low levels, bad at high levels. A little scaling would help (of the Heal DC if nothing else)
Combat Reflexes: Holy moly this + Large or Legion is amazing.

Energy Attack: A neat defence- somewhat specialized benefit.

Entangling Plants: People already want to stay away from your plants. Could have niche use to defend Spitters, but the spread is probably too small.

Pinnacle: No problems here.

General notes: Anti-air abilities are OK, which is something this class needs. Primary battlefield control usage is by combining Combat Reflexes + Large + Mystic Attack + a form- that's close to the only thing the build does, though. I'd like to see the following:
-Web and Burster brought up in power a bit to emphasize the "option-ness" of forms- Burster needs damage, Web needs a little something of its own.
-Put together an alternative or two for the grappler one- I suggest trip or drag as combat maneuvers.

Entangle:

Tenatious Entangle: need need need. Ability tax for this build, much like Mystic strike.
Wall of Thorns: It's... nice? It only partly fits, honestly. Overshadowed by the relevant Spell Blossom.
Extra Entangle: Irrelevant in most scenarios, but it needs to be there.
Enlarge Entanglement: Cover an entire freaking battlefield in one move. Makes placing irrelevant- nice but not necessary option.
Entangling Stride: Sure? Not relevant in many cases other than with some forms of investment.
Aura of Entanglement: A bad pick due to limited radius.
Fertile Entanglement: An ability tax, but not in the good way- it's campaign dependent, and it alternates between absolutely needed and ignorable, which is not a good place to be when people are looking at their next level up.
Thorny Entangle: What? I... what? Entangle is now a Plant? What? Nix the throwing thorns, change the damage trigger to "when a creature moves through the area for the first time each turn" to let people stand still to avoid the damage.
Drag Down: Still incredibly brutal. Too brutal. It's an incredibly good multi-grapple which doesn't take your actions, automatically pins if possible, and can be optimized with CMB enhancers.
Propelling Entanglement: Looks good.
Spell Garden: Entangle, but it deals a spell effect instead, and you can do a whole lot of nasty effects with it. I'd switch around the order of expending the use and failing the save, so it doesn't let the Verdure stall forever, waiting for a failed save.
G. spell garden: Looks good.
Entangled Canopy: Looks good. Anti-flier tech, which this build is sorely lacking.
Overgrowth: Useful to catch people who thought they were safe. Other than that, only moderately useful.
Entangling Plants: See above.
Entangled Dominion: Effects of which aura?
Controlled Entangle: Powerful combination to rapidly spread Aura.
Pinnacle: gotta go fast

Results: There's a powerful core of options, and a number of more general supporting abilities. It's somewhat lacking in anti-flying options, and has perhaps too many ability taxes- I suggest adding the 2x expenditure thing to the base ability and taking out Fertile Entangle, at minimum.

Kaskus
2017-03-20, 10:51 PM
I only have time tonight to respond regarding the Plant Adaptations :smallfrown: :smallsigh:

Spitter: Do you think the range is too low? Note that ranged attacks can go up to 5 range increments meaning this can shoot at someething 100 ft away but with big penalties for doing so.

Burster: Should the burster do its Plant damage instead of a static 2d6? Or instead, should the gas effect persist for Plant damage rounds? Perhaps scale the Save DC based on plant damage as well?

Legion: Modified wording on Legion to be clearer (hopefully?) & incorporated your idea of building them up.

Large: Made into a Plant Form. This prevents it from interacting with Legion.

Web Spinner: Web spinner is another anti-air option. Standard entangle doesn't affect fliers. Would scaling its range be helpful? What about an ability that lets 2 of these within a certain range of each other create a web wall between them?! I just thought of that as I went in to add (bold) to these. I really like the idea, what do you think?

Carnivorous: Would gating it by requiring the Large Plant Form Adaptation (Or any plant adaptation, or a level req.) balance it enough or does the form itself need to be toned down some?

Swallower: I'm a fan of this and its a staple of carnivorous plants in fantasy media. If an adaptation req. was added to Carnivorous, that would make Swallower the third part of a chain. What do you think of its balance given that?

Fungal Plants: This affects the Burster (+2 to the Fort Save DC), the Web Spinner (+2 to the escape artist DC) as well as any plant with the Bleed adaptation (+2 to heal DC). Do we need more plants that initiate saves/skill checks?

Bleed: What about 1/2 Plant Damage (minimum 1d6) instead of the static 1d6? I had also considered a poisonous plant that dealt ongoing poison damage instead of bleed damage. What do you think of that? Separate Adaptation? Auto-poison if modified by fungal adaptation?

Entangling Plants: Do you think this is a "never pick?" Do you have any suggestions?
- what about replacing with a new plant form that creates an area of entanglement that grows in radius each round? 5 ft when created and then another 5 ft each round to a maximum of 10 ft / Plant Damage die? if the plant at the center is killed, the entangled dies.

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-20, 11:34 PM
Alright, quick responses:
Spitter: Change wording from "range" to "range increment", then.
Burster: I'd go for Plant damage in damage, make the save DC as per other abilities.
Legion: I know what you mean from the wording, I think- to make a 4-stack with Fast Plant active takes four consecutive move actions, and you don't get anything until all of them are made?
Large: OK
Web Spinner: Point, I hadn't considered that. Add a note on it keeping targets with wings from using them, buff the range a bit maybe, and I think it's fine. Web walls could be useful, but possibly too much for a single adaptation.
Carnivorous: The basic problem is that a successful grapple takes people out of the fight, making this "make a grapple attempt. You don't need to maintain the grapple, and even if they escape, there's a good chance that it will grab someone else for you". Thought: Perhaps move the grapple into Swallower, so that by default, it's just a bite attack. Bite attacks deal all three kinds of damage, so it's just a somewhat below-average adaptation which gates a much better one.
Swallower: I know what you mean, yeah. If you move the grapple attack from Carnivorous into this, I think it would be OK- swallow whole isn't actually that much of an upgrade from straight grappling other than thematics, and my big problem with the chain is with the EZ-grapple. Forcing investment for that power helps a lot.
Fungal: Reserving judgement. I think we do, honestly. Burster save DC is against a relatively minor effect, and the Heal/Escape Artist DCs are too low to matter against people with any investment anyway. Poison option might help.
Bleed: A damage upgrade might help- I'd set it at around 1/4 plant damage. I absolutely think that a poison option should be added- it would help out Fungal a ton.
Entangling Plants: I'd up the radius to 10 ft, giving the plants a bit of battlefield presence. 5 ft is too low because people naturally avoid that range anyway- AoOs, the chance of getting attacked, etc. 10 ft expands that "no-fly" zone by just enough, in my opinion. It doesn't need to grow- that might be a bit too much to track round-by-round for up to five plants on top of a possible Aura of Dominion.

Kaskus
2017-03-21, 11:03 PM
Plants - reponses to responses...

Spitter: added "increment" and note about max range.

Burster: Changed damage to plant damage and removed the DC for the save (blanket DC calculation mechanic added at top of plant adaptations section.)

Legion: I was actually thinking you could buff existing plants with this. A base plant would have its regular statistics, then could be upgraded to a Legion 2 plant and get those benefits. This would also allow you to dismiss a plant in order to reassign its power to another plant instead. So, if you have all 5 plants summoned for instance. You could dismiss 2 of them and turn one of the 3 remaining plants into a Legion 3 plant (free action to dismiss + 2 move actions to use Legion twice). Then, if that wasnt cutting it, you could, dismiss 2 more to go full Legion 5. This might be done in a big bad + mooks scenario. start with a lot of small plants to deal with mooks and then roll into 1 Legion to face big bad as the mooks go away.

Web Spinner: Buffed the range and took out the specific DC (so it scales by the rule). Also added a note about creatures that need wings to fly.

Carnivorous: Downgraded to just a biter. Grapple moved to swallower...

Swallower: See above

Fungal: Added the ability to convert some damage into poison.

Bleed: Changed damage to 1/4 Plant Damage and added special note for combination with fungal adaptation.

Entangling Plants: Increased radius to 10 ft.

-----

Entangle Adaptation Responses...

Tenacious Entangle: I think I'm okay with the ability tax status of this. Do you disagree?

Wall of Thorns: I actually thought of not allowing Wall of Thorns with Spell Blossom. Do you think the blossom option makes this a "never pick?" What do you think of leaving this and taking wall of thorns out of blossom? Leaving in blossom and getting rid of this adaptation? Do you think its a "never pick" adaptation?

Entangling Stride / Aura of Entanglement: I'm thinking ditch stride and bump radius to 20ft?

Fertile Entanglement: Added the double use to the base entangle ability. I think that leaves this is an okay place. No longer ever a must but can be selected if it comes up often enough.

Thorny Entangle: Perhaps it will make more sense if you look at THIS (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/thorny-entanglement/)?

Drag Down: What if you have to use a move action to direct the plants to attempt a pin? So fail 1 save, become entangled. Fail second save, become grappled. If still grappled on Verdure's turn, they may spend a move action to attempt the pin. Does that alleviate the brutality enough?

Spell Garden: Am I understanding you on this properly... Any creature that moves through the spell garden may be targeted by the Verdure's Spell Blossom ability as a free action?

Entangled Dominion: This is meant to increase the DC of the entanglement effect as well as any other effects added by entangle adaptations if any (I believe as written, it would increase the save DCs for an effect of a blossom via spell garden as well).

Kaskus
2017-03-22, 10:39 PM
I got rid of Entangling Stride

Bumped up the radius on Aura of entanglement to 20 ft.

Edited Drag Down to require a move action on the Verdure's part to initiate a pin.

Added some verbiage to Entangled Dominion

---

Would love to hear your thoughts on these changes and my proposals/questions on the others.

Also, some good news. I am prepping a new campaign with my siblings and one of my sisters will be playing a Verdure!

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-24, 05:20 PM
I return!

Replies to a lot of things:
Plants:
Bursters are better now. Not amazing, but better. They're in a good place.
Legion: Ah! Needs some explanation about when the Plant Form is applied.
Biters are looking OK.
Fungal:... a), poison damage isn't technically defined in the rules (although it does work, I think), but what I actually was thinking of was a Poison adaptation to which the Fungal DC boost could be applied.

Entangle:
Tenatious Entangle: Okay, I guess.
Wall of Thorns: I'd pick one to stick to. Don't particularly care which.
Stride: The Stride effect is flavorful enough that I'd keep it, even if it isn't good- it evokes the "flowers growing from your footsteps" which you see in some portrayals of Spring or harvest deities. Aura- 20 ft is pushing it. I'd actually say 15 ft- this is large enough that you can get it on people, but not so big that you can simply move closer to people instead of using uses of Entangle.
Fertile Entanglement: Fair enough.
Thorny Entangle: No, it still makes no sense, because that spell makes no sense. It isn't just "entangle + thorns", there's a totally separate (and bizarre) element of the plants animating and throwing constantly-regrowing thorns at nearby creatures. It's bizarre.
Drag Down: It's better, yeah. Not as incredible, but still very good.
Spell Garden: Pretty much. Possibly with some words about how you select the spell as the garden grows, or maybe spending a use of Spell Flower to "imbue" an area of entanglement with a single use of the effect, but that's what it boils down to.
Entangled Dominion: Looks fine now.

Reviews, continuing:

Bear Fruit:
Healing Fruit: This is a whole lot of healing! Well, a lot of healing. At low levels, this is a little more than two level-appropriate cure spells, which feels about right for making the class a "healer" which is effective but not overpowering. (I have a whole rant about Channel Energy, but this isn't the place). At higher levels, it falls off. I'd suggest upgrading it at some point to 2d6 instead of 1d8. B, dropping to C over time.
Grenade: Augh, it's so neat, but so bad! For one adaptation, you get the ability to deal slightly more than one plant's worth of damage, by expending a daily ability. The fact that you get multiple fruit helps some, but it just doesn't synergize well with the class as a whole. C.
Suicide Bombers: Depending on how this works, it could rescue Grenade. How many bombers do you get? If you aim them all at the same guy, you might just OTK him. Other than that, doesn't work well with the class. B.
Ranged Bear Fruit: Little-to-no synergy with the rest of the options. Pass. F.
Additional Bear Fruit: The one ability where it might be worth it... if the other powers were better. C, growing to B with buffs.
Fortified Fruit: Staple buff. Decent but not fantastic. C.
Buoyant Fruit: It's nigh-useless except in aquatic campaigns- and even then, not great. F.
Merciful/Greater Merciful Fruit: I like it. It's not super versatile with one pick, but the second is pretty great, dealing with a whole lot of conditions. One problem is getting the target to eat the fruit, though... B.
Revealing Blossom: Glitterdust is very nice! Very, very nice. A
Corpse Seed: Very, very good. You can flood the field with bodies pretty easily- I might cut the number, or change it to "a number of HD of zombies". S, maybe A if nerfed in that way.
Pinnacle: It's a really nice power- either someone succeeds on a single roll once per day, or, more powerfully, doesn't die once per day. Very good!

Added letter ratings to all but the pinnacle.
Thing to be added: Fortified Fruit for other stats. If there were a version of Fortified Fruit where you could choose

Due to its extremely limited uses, I suspect this feature is one place where modal adaptations (choose from a few effects, multipurpose abilities) or simple, staple abilities are most important. Due to the highly limited options, I suspect most players won't be picking more than a few adaptations from this- they'll have to do multiple duty. The Mercies and healing fruit are a good example of how this works- between the two, the class can deal with a variety of healing issues out of combat.

I'm still not happy with the zombie count from Corpse Seed. It seems like a lot for one adaptation, and more damningly, the adaptation essentially bypasses the central limitation of Bear Fruit. Because you can create zombies one day and adventure the next, expending uses of the feature doesn't really count against the strict daily limit in the same way that Healing Fruit does.

Kaskus
2017-03-24, 11:05 PM
Welcome back! Are your midterms concluded?

As always, thank you for the depth of your analysis...

Plants:

Modified the language on Legion

Re: Fungal - That makes total sense. Removed poison from Fungal
Created "Poisonous" adaptation
Created "Persistent Poison" adaptation

---

Entangle Adaptations:

Wall of Thorns: While my initial instinct was to ditch the blossom version, I have decided to ditch the adaptation instead so Verdures can have more adaptations while still getting access to Wall of Thorns, which they should totally have!

Entangling Stride returns!

Radius for Entangled Aura changed to 15 ft.

I just got rid of Thorny Entangle. It was initially included when the adaptation count was far less. No need for space fillers any longer.

For spell garden, I do not want it to be a one-shot power like they walk in, trigger it and then it dies or goes dormant. Would selecting a spell blossom at creation and then having that blossom trigger on each failed save be too much? Like if "Poison" from Greater Spell Blossom was selected, that would be 6-18 con damage per failed save. Just a note: This ability totally makes me think of the poppy fields from Wizard of Oz - "Poppies will make them sleep"

---

Healing Fruit: What do you think of a separate upgrade that makes it verdure level instead of bmb?

Grenade: I was thinking this might be more appropriate for the Greenguard. How would you feel about removing it from Verdure completely and revisiting it as a Greenguard species?

I have come to agree with you on Ranged Bear Fruit. It has now been removed.

Modified Fortified Fruit to affect a selectable attribute.

Buoyant Fruit removed

Modified Corpse Seed to "bind" the uses. This should gate the YMZ quantity much more.

-----

I also added "Improved" and "Greater" version of Mystic Attack. Let me know what you think of those

aimlessPolymath
2017-03-25, 01:14 AM
Midterms are done except for one weird one which is after break. Fortunately, I'm trapped in an airport waiting for my rescheduled flight, so here comes some responses.

I like the poison effect- it's a fairly simple poison (no ability damage!) which makes sense. Similar to bleed, the damage might be rather low, though- I suggest adding a debuff while the poison lasts, to buff it and distinguish it a little from Bleed.

Spell Garden: I'm hung up on balance. Dealing 6-18 constitution damage is really cool, but also really strong- you can easily drop a wide variety of foes in an incredibly efficient manner, and there are some other very good options- Hold Person, Deep Slumber, Blindness, etc.

Healing Fruit: An increase in healing by 33% isn't enough to qualify for a separate adaptation. A couple of alternatives for adaptations:
-Instead of healing xd8, the fruit grant fast healing X for 5 rounds. More reliable, more combat-useful.
-In addition to healing xd8, it grants x*2 temporary hit points to the recipient.

I'm pretty set on having the healing automatically scale up a bit with level- right now, it's exactly where it needs to be at low levels, but falls off at higher levels. I don't want that scaling to be part of a separate adaptation, because I feel that if you're spending a heavily limited daily use on it, you should get your money's worth.

Grenade is perfect for the Greenguard on both mechanical and fluff levels. I'm in.

Fortified Fruit is very versatile, but I think it's in a good place.

Corpse Seed looks good now.

However, the Improved and Greater Mystic Attack are nowhere near as good as the original, for one reason: DR/Magic, which the original is crucial for overcoming (okay, G. mystic attack has some bypass properties thanks to PF rules, but still).

I'm going to do Companion and Dominion in one batch, I think.
Companion:

Talented Companion: There are some nice combat feats for the companion to pick up, but nothing really pops out that they couldn't get through hit dice. C.
Plant Bearer: This is pretty great, effectively giving your Companion a second, powerful attack which can be made while moving. A.
Evolved Companion: Unrated due to apathy at going through the evolution list for good picks. Probably not overpowering, though.
Reinforced Companion: I'm not a huge fan of the fact that you can take this repeatedly. It's not a particularly interesting adaptation, and repeatedly taking it can lead to incredible tankiness when combined with normal animal companion advancement. B+ power, F- interestingness.
Companion Stride: I like it! More useful than the default Entangling Stride, and very handy at sectioning off parts of the battlefield. C power, B interestingness? Unsure.
Hive: Just like with the famous example of the Dread Necromancer, sickened needs a duration- until they leave, or 1 minute, or whatever. B-
Imp. Hive: Damage is very minor- this is gained at level 6 at minimum. Buff it to 2d6, possibly to 3d6 at higher levels. Also, move it next to Hive organizationally. Range increase is nice, but keep in mind the companion will often be in melee anyway C, rising to B with damage buffs.
Lifelink: Very nice! A, can practically double the health of the companion.
Pinnacle: Very very nice!


Dominion:

Bolstering Dominion: Range upgrade is minor but well-liked- note that it's irrelevant unless you've boosted the range for a couple turns. Does the bonus apply to Plants? C- for generally situational effects.
Destructive Dominion: It looks underwhelming, but this can eat through a door in under a round, and a masonry wall in a few rounds. I'm on the wall about whether or not it needs a damage buff- you'd need to think long and hard about what kind of objects you want them breaking. Compromise- full-round action doubles the damage? Note that masonry walls (i.e. castles) have 90 hit points, but hewn stone walls (i.e. some dungeons and caves) have 540, so there's a notable gap. C for situational use and low-ish damage depending on your perspective.
Dominating Tendrils: I assume it's a 5-foot square? Wording is a bit odd- it could be 25 ft square (i.e. 5 squares x 5 squares). Needs a note that holding them is equivalent to grappling them, action definition for attempts to escape, and possibly an initial grapple attempt. B, rising to A+ if the square doesn't need to be unoccupied (it should need to be, though)
Lashing Vines: Looks good, no problems.
Parasitic Dominion: I'd take out the temporary hit points- it doesn't add a whole lot to the adaptation mechanically, and you benefit from it anyway thanks to the fact that damage is useful. S thanks to the sheer healing that you can get from this- fast healing of your level is no joke!
Safe Space: Useful to generate a protective shield which foes need to fight through. Not that hard to do it, but with set-up, can get pretty ridiculous. B
Sculpted Dominion: Nice but minor- I can't actually think of many situations when I would want this. C.
Verdant Sight: Somewhat redundant, possibly, with the Woodland Sight upgrades. Still, sensory abilities are pretty great, and you can pretty much just expand your Dominion through a whole dungeon to map it out. A.
Anchor Dominion: Nice but minor. C. Possibly merge with Sculpted Dominion.
Grasping Vines: Forced movement was one of the good parts of 4e, I'll admit it. A to B.
Entangle Dominion: Could get pretty nice with Spell Garden, but that's a somewhat specialized build. A in that build, C outside it.
Controlled Entangle: Nice to get fast and easy Dominion range out super fast. B.
Merge: Extremely nice- you need a spellcaster to break you out, but until then, you can basically play freely with everyone in your dominion. Surprisingly, needs Verdant Sight as a prereq, so you can target things.

Alright, I'm off to take a nap.

Kaskus
2017-03-25, 03:43 PM
Poison: Added sickened condition

-----

Persistent Poison: bumped round 1 damage to 2d6

-----

Spell Garden: How about this...

Spell Garden (Blossom / Entangle):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
You expend a use of your Entangle ability as well as a use of your Improved Spell Blossom to create a Spell Garden. You select a single spell blossom you are able to create with your Improved Spell Blossom ability and infuse the Spell Garden with this effect. The area you may affect is the same as that which would be affected by your Entangle ability. Any creature that moves through any space within the Spell Garden must succeed at a reflex save at the same difficulty as your Entangle ability. If a creature fails its save, it is automatically targeted by the spell blossom effect selected when the spell garden was created. An affected creature gets a +2 bonus to its reflex save for each time it has been affected by the same spell garden.

So, that would limit the effects to those available from Improved Spell Blossom (taking out Greater Spell Blossom options) as well as give affected creatures bonuses to saves so they have less and less of a chance of being affected multiple times.

Would a separate adaptation to allow Greater Spell Blossoms be a good enough bump to justify taking an adaptation for it?

-----

Healing Fruit: I kinda like the fast healing option and I kinda don't. As a player I have found myself to prefer regular healing over fast healing (i think I just like rolling for it :smalltongue:). What if it bumps to 2d6 at BMB 5 and then 2d8 at BMB 10?
- Lvl 1: No Fruit For You
- Lvl 2: Still No Fruit
- Lvl 3: Fruit - but no fruit adaptations = 2d4 healing = average of 5 hp
- Lvl 4: Healing Fruit: 3d8 = 13.5 hp
- Lvl 5: 3d8 = 13.5 hp
- Lvl 6: 4d8 = 18 hp
- Lvl 7: 10d6 = 35 hp (double previous level)
- Lvl 8: 12d6 = 42 hp
- Lvl 9: 12d6 = 42 hp
- Lvl 10: 14d6 = 49 hp
- Lvl 11: 16d6 = 56 hp
- Lvl 12: 18d6 = 63 hp
- Lvl 13: 18d6 = 63 hp
- Lvl 14: 20d8 = 90 hp
- Lvl 15: 22d8 = 99 hp (compare to 150 hp heal by a level 15 cleric)
- Lvl 16: 24d8 = 108 hp
- Lvl 17: 24d8 = 108 hp
- Lvl 18: 26d8 = 117 hp
- Lvl 19: 28d8 = 126 hp
- Lvl 20: 30d8 = 135 hp (maxes out at 240 hp)

-----

Grenade has been removed - To be revisited with the Greenguard :)

-----

I / G Mystic Attack: Do you think they should just be pulled and keep the base one or should they be made better to be more appetizing?

-----

Reinforced Companion Pulled: I meant to get rid of it already as there is a 1-point evolution for natural armor they can grab with evolved companion if they want.

-----

Hive: Added duration for sickened

-----

Improved Hive: Moved below Hive and added damage scaling based on companion HD

-----

Bolstering Dominion: It was meant to also affect plants but they are not creatures so as it was written, it would not. added text including them specifically.

-----

Destructive Dominion: I actually think it is maybe too powerful... I worry about allowing a character to topple castle walls passively. the 90 point wall you mention would crumble in 15 rounds at level 6, when this would first be available. That translates to 90 seconds. I feel like a level 6 character melting a castle wall in 90 seconds seems a bit much. 15 rounds is a lot in combat but nothing outside of it. Clerics and Druids have Stone Shape at this level and could shape a hole in the same wall in only 6 seconds but it takes an action and they can only do it twice a day. If the verdure focuses and uses all actions to expand her aura, she can decimate buildings, maybe even whole towns in a matter of minutes. 2 move actions per turn = + 20 ft to radius per round. You can affect approximately 1 square miles after approximately 15 minutes of focusing!

15 minutes of destructive domain will completely ruin every non-attended item in the area (900 points of damage based on level 6 output). Note that the idea of plants erupting from the ground across a whole city block and ruining everything, tearing down walls and buildings, etc. is epic and awesome and I am a fan of it! I do not think its something a level 6 character should necessarily be able to do.

Is my analysis off (or my math if you are bored enough to double check it)? Do you disagree? Do you have any thoughts / recommendations?

Maybe we need to limit dominion expansion in the base ability? I really like the use of it along with verdant sight to extend your senses but don't like it toppling cities. Im not sure how to solve this just yet.

-----

Dominating Tendrils: Modified wording to be more clear.

-----

Parasitic Dominion: Removed Temp HP

-----

Sculpted Dominion: I like your idea of combining Anchor domain with this so I did it :)

-----

Phew!

Almarck
2017-03-25, 11:10 PM
An interesting class I finally finished reading through. You have spent a few months developing it.

Incredibly hyper plant and pet centric. This class definately tries to act as a full caster without any formal spell list.


One thing I think your class definately needs is a table to specify how many SLA's per level ratio or a chart helping you to quickly calc it out as opposed to going all over the place or reading each ability.

Your magic abilities all have individual "use numbers". Might as well streamline the process of reviewing it.

there are a number of classes, such as paladin with daily use counters for their important abilities. Paladin for instance lists how many Smites you get pet day depending on your level This highly SLA depending class needs this feature.

Kaskus
2017-03-26, 02:00 AM
Welcome to the conversation!

I think putting the uses per day for each ability on the chart is a good idea. I will work on that.

Almarck
2017-03-27, 09:51 PM
Well, I can see you put stuff in for bear fruit's uses per day.

Kaskus
2017-03-27, 10:16 PM
Bear Fruit times per day added to Class Table.

-----

I have also been thinking more about the "Verdure's Grace" pool idea for the various abilities. What do you think of this...

Verdure's Grace Pool Size = BMB + Charisma Modifier
Entangle = 1 point
Improved Spell Blossom = 1 point
Vine Field = 2 points
Commune w/ Nature = 2 points
Animate Plants = 3 points
Greater Spell Blossom = 3 points
Tree Stride = 2 points

They would take a little bit of a hit the first couple levels (Entangle goes from 3+CHA to 0+CHA) but as they progress they gain more versatility

Level 01: 0+Cha points
Level 05: 3+Cha points
Level 10: 7+Cha points
Level 15: 11+Cha points
Level 20: 15+Cha points

Con: I feel like lower level abilities may be forgotten in order to use higher level ones more, especially spell blossoms. Is this a valid concern?

Pro: It give me ideas for for Feats!

1. Extra Grace: You get more grace (+3 points?)
2. Verdure's Bounty: You may expend x grace for an additional use of Bear Fruit (3 points?)
3. Verdure's Endowment: Select one ability that utilizes grace. That ability costs 1 less grace to use (minimum 1). This feat can be selected multiple times but each time, it must be applied to a different ability.

Thoughts?

Almarck
2017-03-27, 11:02 PM
Bear Fruit times per day added to Class Table.

-----

I have also been thinking more about the "Verdure's Grace" pool idea for the various abilities. What do you think of this...

Verdure's Grace Pool Size = BMB + Charisma Modifier
Entangle = 1 point
Improved Spell Blossom = 1 point
Vine Field = 2 points
Commune w/ Nature = 2 points
Animate Plants = 3 points
Greater Spell Blossom = 3 points
Tree Stride = 2 points

They would take a little bit of a hit the first couple levels (Entangle goes from 3+CHA to 0+CHA) but as they progress they gain more versatility

Level 01: 0+Cha points
Level 05: 3+Cha points
Level 10: 7+Cha points
Level 15: 11+Cha points
Level 20: 15+Cha points

Con: I feel like lower level abilities may be forgotten in order to use higher level ones more, especially spell blossoms. Is this a valid concern?

Pro: It give me ideas for for Feats!

1. Extra Grace: You get more grace (+3 points?)
2. Verdure's Bounty: You may expend x grace for an additional use of Bear Fruit (3 points?)
3. Verdure's Endowment: Select one ability that utilizes grace. That ability costs 1 less grace to use (minimum 1). This feat can be selected multiple times but each time, it must be applied to a different ability.

Thoughts?

I feel like pointing out that lower level spells tend to get ignored in favor of higher level spells anyways because people want to maximize their action economy in a fight. If spell blossoms have good out of combat utility, people would use them still, just in setup.

This is especially true if they lack redundant spells.


The only way to really force people to use lower level stuff is if there's no higher level analogue, or if the costs of using the high end stuff are bad or just really inefficient. I.E. Greater Spell Blossoms costing 5 makes Improved Spell blossoms really appealing.

But this might be too severe of a drawback.

Kaskus
2017-03-27, 11:25 PM
I guess my big question would be: Does adding grace change the way this class would play in a significant or fundamental way?

Almarck
2017-03-27, 11:31 PM
I guess my big question would be: Does adding grace change the way this class would play in a significant or fundamental way?


It does. In the sense that its resources would be concentrated into a single pool rather than trying to take "bits and pieces" of other abilities or rationing out which ability uses you have.

It gives loads of flexibility, but that cases some options to be suboptimal or situational. This is an inevitable issue with game design.

Kaskus
2017-04-01, 09:44 PM
Updates...

I am holding off on Grace for now and sticking with separate pools (if you dont like math, you may be playing the wrong game :smalltongue:)

Healing Fruit has been upgraded

Spell Garden and Greater Spell Garden have been modified

Question: Suicide Bomber may be my favorite Adaptation! BUT, now that grenade has been removed, should they go over to the Greenguard as well?

I would also still like some feedback regarding Destructive Dominion and The Mystic Attack upgrade adaptations.

Now that 2 comprehensive passes have been done at the class / adaptations, is there anything I have missed or failed to edit/defend?

I am excited to be close to finished! Any last minute feedback, comments, critiques, etc. are welcome and appreciated.

aimlessPolymath
2017-04-02, 08:11 PM
Grenade should probably transfer, yeah.

Destructive Dominion is maybe OK as-is; I suspect the main problem is the endless expansion of the Aura.
Mystic Attack is just not that versatile or interesting an option. You need the 1st level for plants to be usable at high levels, but beyond that, it isn't important to have.

Last batch! I'm excited to be done.

Late Bloomer feels not great, much like most delay-spell effects. I'd suggest granting a minor benefit- perhaps a CL boost- for delaying for more than a round..
Hive Blossoms is good- I like the spell list expansion
Expanded Spell Blossom is, too.
Spell Garden/G. Spell Garden are both very, very strong.
Spell Bouquet is probably too good due to the ability to stack the same save-or-suck ability over and over on the same guy. I'd like to add a limitation where you can't pick the same spell multiple times.

Missing options: More metamagic-like effects, maybe. Not sure.

Kaskus
2017-04-02, 10:31 PM
Added a limit to aura expansion

Suicide Bombers pulled. To be added to Greenguard.

Improved / Greater Mystic Attack pulled

Spell Bouquet modified to only allow a given effect once per use.

Added buff to spells delayed with late bloomer.

For Metamagic, what if we just state that they are able to take the monster feats for spell like abilities (Quicken (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/quicken-spell-like-ability/), Maximize (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/frog-god-games/monster-feats-3pp-frog-god-games/maximize-spell-like-ability/), Etc.)?

Almarck
2017-04-02, 10:36 PM
For Metamagic, what if we just state that they are able to take the monster feats for spell like abilities (Quicken (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/quicken-spell-like-ability/), Maximize (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/frog-god-games/monster-feats-3pp-frog-god-games/maximize-spell-like-ability/), Etc.)?

I thought players could already take those anyways, since there's alot of different character archetypes, especially sorcerers that get Sp's that could be altered anyways.

aimlessPolymath
2017-04-03, 12:21 PM
Yeah, good point. I'm just trying to find Spell Blossom abilities...

A thought. Given that Spell Blossom is something which is acquired at later levels, we could consider it as a secondary specialization... which means we could focus less on improving it as an individual specialization and more as an enhancement to existing styles- adding a spell effect to an existing ability, as per Spell Garden.
So:

Flowering Plants(Plant Form?): As you create a Plant, you may expend a use of your Spell Flower ability and select a spell with a single target that you could use through Spell Flower. The next time that Plant hits a target with an attack, the spell is automatically cast on the creature hit by the attack. Due to the direct delivery of the spell, the target takes a -3 penalty to their saving throws against the spell (if any).

Kaskus
2017-04-04, 12:45 AM
I like it. I like the name too.

Should we also have Flowering Companion to do the same thing for the plant companion?

Here are some more hybrid ideas...

Flowery Domain (Blossom / Domain):
Pre-req: Aura of Dominion Class Feature, Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
Rather than concentrate power into a Spell Blossom, you infuse it into your domain. The features of plants in your domain become exaggerated. The flowers are brighter and larger, thorns seem more intimidating and the overall growth appears extra lush. As a standard action, you may expend a use of your Improved Spell Blossom ability to have the area affected by your Aura of Dominion ability be treated as if under the effect of the Prayer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/prayer/) Spell, except the bonuses / penalties are Morale rather than Luck. The effect lasts for 1 round per Verdure level you possess.

-----

Arcane Fruit (Blossom / Fruit):
Pre-req: Bear Fruit Class Ability, Improved Spell Blossom Class Ability
You may expend a use of your Bear Fruit ability as well as a use of your Improved Spell Blossom ability to create an Arcane Fruit. Any spellcaster that consumes an Arcane Fruit is treated as if under the effects of Channel The Gift (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/channel-the-gift/).

-----

That would give a Blossom hybrid adaptation for each other category.