mage armor

[D&DPrinceTandem]

so here is a quote from the Complete mage


Abjurant Armor (Su): Any time you cast an abjuration spell that grants you an armor bonus or shield bonus to AC,
you can increase the value of the bonus by your abjurant champion class level. Abjurant champions rely on mage armor, shield, and similar spells instead of actual armor.

and here is a quote from the players handbook


Mage Armor
Conjuration (Creation) [Force]

so my question:
Does this mean that Mage armor is supposed to be a abjuration spell or not? If not then does Abjurant Armor still effect the spell?

[Zanos]

Complete Mage errata specifically removes this mention of mage armor from abjurant champion.

[Amphetryon]

so here is a quote from the Complete mage



and here is a quote from the players handbook



so my question:
Does this mean that Mage armor is supposed to be a abjuration spell or not? If not then does Abjurant Armor still effect the spell?

It's a known error in the write-up, one of many through the splat books. Mage Armor is not 'supposed to be' an Abjuration Spell. As far as whether Abjurant Armor is supposed to impact the Spell, probably not, but that becomes a DM call.

[Crake]

so here is a quote from the Complete mage



and here is a quote from the players handbook



so my question:
Does this mean that Mage armor is supposed to be a abjuration spell or not? If not then does Abjurant Armor still effect the spell?

No, mage armor is still conjuration, the line you quoted was removed in the errata, and abjurant armor does not affect by RAW, however most DMs will houserule it to still work with Mage Armor, because, short of luminous armor, there are no abjuration spells that actually grant an armor bonus to AC.

[John Longarrow]

No and No.

Note that it lists Mage Armor (Conjuration) along with Shield (Abjuration). Mage Armor is listed because it enhances AC without interfering with spell casting.

Luminous Armor from Book of Exalted Deeds is an abjuration that grants an Armor bonus and can lead to some sickly high ACs on an abjurant champion, especially when mixed with Protection from Evil (abjuration).

EDIT

Swordsaged on it...

Special note, check with your DM if you are also going to mix divine spells in. Dipping Cleric gives Shield of Faith, a 1st level Abjuration spell that grants a deflection bonus.

[Crake]

No and No.

Note that it lists Mage Armor (Conjuration) along with Shield (Abjuration). Mage Armor is listed because it enhances AC without interfering with spell casting.

Luminous Armor from Book of Exalted Deeds is an abjuration that grants an Armor bonus and can lead to some sickly high ACs on an abjurant champion, especially when mixed with Protection from Evil (abjuration).

Note that protection from evil doesn't gain the benefit of abjurant armor, because it grants a deflection bonus to AC, not an armor or shield bonus.

[John Longarrow]

Note that protection from evil doesn't gain the benefit of abjurant armor, because it grants a deflection bonus to AC, not an armor or shield bonus.

True, but deflection bonuses stack so you can pull off some sick combo's if you really want a high AC.

[D&DPrinceTandem]

thank you for clearing it up, i didn't think any of the answers would be yes. I making a build that is a lvl 7 Gestalt(prestige can gestalt in this campaign). It is a Drow and I'm making it a Warblade/Wizard 5, Abjurant Champion/ Beast heart adept 2. I might be able to learn Luminous Armor. I know i'll will have shield on my list.

Any recommendations for this character? Roleplay ideas? Ideas for backgrounds?

[Crake]

True, but deflection bonuses stack so you can pull off some sick combo's if you really want a high AC.

You mean stacks with armor and shield bonuses, right? And since it's a 1st level abjuration spell, you can still cast it as a swift action and have it automatically extended for free, which is of course nice. +2 AC is never worthless, and protection from evil comes with a host of other benefits as well


thank you for clearing it up, i didn't think any of the answers would be yes. I making a build that is a lvl 7 Gestalt(prestige can gestalt in this campaign). It is a Drow and I'm making it a Warblade/Wizard 5, Abjurant Champion/ Beast heart adept 2. I might be able to learn Luminous Armor. I know i'll will have shield on my list.

Any recommendations for this character? Roleplay ideas? Ideas for backgrounds?

Luminous armor is a sanctified spell, keep that in mind, so it's only available to non-evil characters, and has a sacrifice cost associated with it.

[D&DPrinceTandem]

Maybe..... But....

there is the spell Ectoplasmic armor which is an Abjuration spell. But that only applies to Incorporeal attacks. so what if i was incorporeal does that make normal attack against me treated as incorporeal?

if so than im getting the sick bonus of +9 to my ac.

Im going to look for all the Abjuration spells that grant Shield and/or Armor bonus brb!

[Crake]

Maybe..... But....

there is the spell Ectoplasmic armor which is an Abjuration spell. But that only applies to Incorporeal attacks. so what if i was incorporeal does that make normal attack against me treated as incorporeal?

if so than im getting the sick bonus of +9 to my ac.

Im going to look for all the Abjuration spells that grant Shield and/or Armor bonus brb!

Unfortunately that's not at all how it works :smalltongue:

[D&DPrinceTandem]

Unfortunately that's not at all how it works :smalltongue:

NOOOOO....my dreams....Revenge of the drow shall come to the gods who made mage armor not a abjuration spell!!!

[John Longarrow]

Greater Luminous Armor is a 4th level sanctified spell that grants +8 Armor bonus for Hour/lvl. It also has Luminous Armor's -4 penalty on melee attacks against you.

Shield grants a +4 shield bonus.

Together that's +12 to AC that gets upped by twice your Abjurant Champion level.

Toss on Protection VS alignment for another +2.

This gives you an AC of 34 against evil creatures before Natural Armor (NA), Dex, and deflection bonuses are tossed on top. This is fairly easy to reach by 11th or 12th level. This is also before you play any polymorph games, stat boosts, and other ways to increase defense (Mirror image, blur, ect..)

You will find that the 10 points you CAN get out of abjurant champion often isn't nearly as useful as you would originally think. By this point many opponents have played rocket tag on their to hit or are using attacks that don't directly go against your AC. It is actually much better by this point to NOT be the target of attacks than to have a high AC.

NOTE: Fixed a typo.

[eggynack]

Luminous armor is a sanctified spell, keep that in mind, so it's only available to non-evil characters, and has a sacrifice cost associated with it.
More importantly, it's restricted to good targets, so someone wanting to cast in on themselves would need to be good.

[Pyrophilios]

1 week downtime, 1000 gp and a spellcraft check DC 11 will allow you to research an abjuration spell identical to Mage Armor.

(Incidentally that's a nice work around for spells from banned schools that you'd like to be able to cast regardless)

[D&DPrinceTandem]

Greater Luminous Armor is a 4th level sanctified spell that grants +8 Armor bonus for Hour/lvl. It also has Luminous Armor's -4 penalty on melee attacks against you.

Shield grants a +4 shield bonus.

Together that's +12 to AC that gets upped by twice your Abjurant Champion level.

Toss on Protection VS alignment for another +2.

This gives you an AC of 34 against evil creatures before Natural Armor (NA), Dex, and deflection bonuses are tossed on top. This is fairly easy to reach by 11th or 12th level. This is also before you play any polymorph games, stat boosts, and other ways to increase defense (Mirror image, blur, ect..)

You will find that the 10 points you CAN get out of abjurant champion often isn't nearly as useful as you would originally think. By this point many opponents have played rocket tag on their to hit or are using attacks that don't directly go against your AC. It is actually much better by this point to NOT be the target of attacks than to have a high AC.

NOTE: Fixed a typo.
but i can't forget that there is also a +2 from the class to the spells
Greater Luminous Armor+2= +10
Shield+2= +6
Then Protection+2 = +4 x2 because i have 2 alignments (CG) = +8
+6 unarmored variant= +6
total of 40 minimum before dex, and Incop deflection(if i get the Phantom template)

1 week downtime, 1000 gp and a spellcraft check DC 11 will allow you to research an abjuration spell identical to Mage Armor.

(Incidentally that's a nice work around for spells from banned schools that you'd like to be able to cast regardless)

Were is these rules, they may be useful.

[Crake]

but i can't forget that there is also a +2 from the class to the spells
Greater Luminous Armor+2= +10
Shield+2= +6
Then Protection+2 = +4 x2 because i have 2 alignments (CG) = +8
+6 unarmored variant= +6
total of 40 minimum before dex, and Incop deflection(if i get the Phantom template)

Protection from evil is a deflection bonus, so it doesn't stack with itself and doesn't get the bonus from abjurant armor (it only applies to armor and shield bonues), so your numbers should be Greater Luminous armor +10, Shield +6, Protection from XYZ +2, not sure where unarmored variant is coming from, unless you meant swordsage instead of warblade, and you had something like aescetic mage applying to swordsage's AC bonus, getting +6 cha or the like?

Incorporeal deflection will also not stack with protection from XYZ (again, deflection bonuses).


Were is these rules, they may be useful.

Those rules are more guidelines and up to DM adjudication. Good luck actually using it to overcome banned schools, but honestly if you're relying on this, just ask your DM if he'd allow mage armor to work with abjurant armor, despite being conjuration (or just ask him to move mage armor to abjuration).

[D&DPrinceTandem]

Protection from evil is a deflection bonus, so it doesn't stack with itself and doesn't get the bonus from abjurant armor (it only applies to armor and shield bonues), so your numbers should be Greater Luminous armor +10, Shield +6, Protection from XYZ +2, not sure where unarmored variant is coming from, unless you meant swordsage instead of warblade, and you had something like aescetic mage applying to swordsage's AC bonus, getting +6 cha or the like?

Incorporeal deflection will also not stack with protection from XYZ (again, deflection bonuses).

So prot doesn't stack, that sucks. I geuss that if i do go Phantom i will get a +3 instead of a +2 so +1 bonus.... The unarmed variant is from Unearthed arcana on page 110. so my total would be more like 35. seems good.



Those rules are more guidelines and up to DM adjudication. Good luck actually using it to overcome banned schools, but honestly if you're relying on this, just ask your DM if he'd allow mage armor to work with abjurant armor, despite being conjuration (or just ask him to move mage armor to abjuration).

i see if he's up to it sense he really likes min/max characters

As for not having to really on ac for stuff. I am considered a 7 lvl Warblade and i have access to the Maneuvers that allow me to get my concentration to my saves.

[Crake]

The unarmed variant is from Unearthed arcana on page 110.

Ah right, that's a system variant, meaning it's an option for the DM to choose, not the player, so you'll have to make sure your DM is allowing that variant, it's not just free and open for the players to choose (since it's a straight up buff, nobody would ever say no :smalltongue:)

[Menzath]

Well, since your gestalt, if you can take another PRC on the mage side, would argent savant be worth it?
Sure you lose 1 caster level, but the bonus to force effects is nice, also the harder DC to dispel your force effects.
And the capstone can be used in fun ways.

[DarkSoul]

(... move mage armor to abjuration).That's what I did for my games. I have a player who's planning to go into Abjurant Champion in a couple levels.