What build is better for this scenario?

[jaappleton]

Awhile back, with the help of this community, I settled on my next character. But an idea popped into my head, and I want your feedback. We haven't played yet, due to the holidays, so I have the opportunity to change the character.

Here's the scenario:

Point Buy
All UA and all books allowed
Start with two Uncommon magic items

Party of two.
Level 3.
My friend is a Greatsword wielding Fighter focusing on damage. AC of 16.


Now, the community helped me see that Hill Dwarf Light Cleric would be solid. Warding Flare prevents a couple enemies from hitting me, while I get a Cloak of Protection +1 for a total of 19 AC at lv3. Could go up to 20 AC if I get my hands on Half Plate.

Good AC, good HP, capable of blasting, buffing, and healing. The other magic item was a Sentinel Shield for Advantage on Initiative & Perception.

Solid build. It really is.



But I had an idea, and I wanted help weighing the pros and cons.


Favored Soul - War Domain (Open to another domain)

STILL at 19 AC with a Cloak of Protection. No change there.
Slightly lower HP, but not by much if I went Abyssal Tiefling (UA - Black Magic)

Now, I'd lose access to any healing spells unless I went Life Domain.

But I gain Metamagic and the Sorcerer Spell List. Quicken Lightning Lure an enemy into Spirit Guardians. Is Frostbite a decent alternative to Warding Flare? I'd gain the Shield spell. Twinned Shield of Faith (War Domain) puts me and my Fighter ally at 21 & 18 AC, with Constitution proficiency to maintain it. Other spells like Counterspell, Mirror Image, and Hypnotic Pattern are added to my list.


To me, Cleric feels like a strong best. But once the spell slots are depleted... That's it. Compared to the Sorcerer, and Sorcery Points allow me to convert more slots. The Cantrips on a Sorc are also MUCH better than the Cleric.

EDIT: It's also worth noting the campaign is unlikely to go past level 10.

[jaappleton]

....Any thoughts at all?

[Dualswinger]

If you want some AC shenanigans, cleric of the forge gets to add 1 AC to any piece of armour after a long rest (cancelling a previous use). They also get plenty of defensive spells in their domain list.

[Crusher]

....Any thoughts at all?

Entirely giving up your healing is a little risky. Though mathematically, a 2 person party would be almost about the best time to ditch healing (behind a solo adventure), there is something to be said for having at least some kind of fall-back if someone goes down. A potential, though slightly awkward, solution is to start Variant Human and take the Healer feat. You can put out a surprising amount of healing with that feat, albeit you can only use it once/short rest on a specific person.

You party appears to be dumping Stealth (which might be a little risky with a smaller group). If you decide you want some stealth after all, another option would be to start Rogue, level up to 3, take the Thief archetype, then swap to Favored Soul the rest of the way as planned.

Obviously, you lose all your spell casting at low level but you pick up the option of sneaking up on opponents plus you get sneak attack damage. Finally, the Thief archetype is widely (and, imo, correctly) maligned. However, this is the one case where its actually worthwhile, as the Fast Hands ability allows you to (among other things) use a healers' kit as a bonus action rather than a regular action. Going for the Rogue dip isn't worth it purely for the healing, but if you want stealth/recon abilities as well it would be valuable.

Not to throw stones, but part of the issue is that your compatriot has apparently chosen "melee dps" as his single role, and left you to fill everything else (tank, healer, caster, skill-monkey, stealth) which is a fairly tall order.

[jaappleton]

Entirely giving up your healing is a little risky. Though mathematically, a 2 person party would be almost about the best time to ditch healing (behind a solo adventure), there is something to be said for having at least some kind of fall-back if someone goes down. A potential, though slightly awkward, solution is to start Variant Human and take the Healer feat. You can put out a surprising amount of healing with that feat, albeit you can only use it once/short rest on a specific person.

You party appears to be dumping Stealth (which might be a little risky with a smaller group). If you decide you want some stealth after all, another option would be to start Rogue, level up to 3, take the Thief archetype, then swap to Favored Soul the rest of the way as planned.

Obviously, you lose all your spell casting at low level but you pick up the option of sneaking up on opponents plus you get sneak attack damage. Finally, the Thief archetype is widely (and, imo, correctly) maligned. However, this is the one case where its actually worthwhile, as the Fast Hands ability allows you to (among other things) use a healers' kit as a bonus action rather than a regular action. Going for the Rogue dip isn't worth it purely for the healing, but if you want stealth/recon abilities as well it would be valuable.

Not to throw stones, but part of the issue is that your compatriot has apparently chosen "melee dps" as his single role, and left you to fill everything else (tank, healer, caster, skill-monkey, stealth) which is a fairly tall order.

I know. But I'm a much more experienced player, and I want my buddy to be able to play the character he envisioned. He doesn't quite have his proverbial wings yet.

VHuman - Favored Soul: War - Feat: Magic Initiate - Healing Word from Bard

Does that essentially allow me to cover everything?

[Crusher]

Yeah, that would work, too. It also gives you range on the healing, and you get it as a bonus action without having to dip Rogue. On the downside it heals for less and its once/long rest rather than once/short rest (and you can't use it as a top-off for yourself), but really, you're going to be mostly using it to get your buddy back up, right? If he's going down more than once/long rest its time to rethink the strategy. Plus, you get a pair of bard cantrips to play with (and 6 in total!).

[jaappleton]

Yeah, that would work, too. It also gives you range on the healing, and you get it as a bonus action without having to dip Rogue. On the downside it heals for less and its once/long rest rather than once/short rest (and you can't use it as a top-off for yourself), but really, you're going to be mostly using it to get your buddy back up, right? If he's going down more than once/long rest its time to rethink the strategy. Plus, you get a pair of bard cantrips to play with (and 6 in total!).

Wasn't it said that Magic Initiate has you learn the spell, and can be cast with slots? I thought I'd read that somewhere.

[jaappleton]

Oh I see with the Magic Initiate Feat...

If you're a Wizard and use it to learn a spell on your class list, you can cast it with slots. Otherwise, it's just once per day.

Well, that sucks ass.

[Biggstick]

Since we seem open to sweeping changes, let's go another route. Valor Bard.

Max out Dexterity first, a 14-16 Charisma will be fine for the entire lifetime of the character. Pick up Sharpshooter either with the Human Variant feat at 1, or at level 8 with any other race. You're a full arcane spell caster with Healing Word and rituals. You have enough social/knowledge/stealth capability + Expertise to deal with everything you can think of out of combat. Choose spells that enhance your utility plus Lesser/Greater Restoration.

Big reason I'm advocating for Valor Bard over Lore is combat strength. Being able to fire off Sharpshooter shots in combat can really help alleviate the damage needed from your GWM friend. S/he won't feel like they're the only ones doing damage, and you'll still be providing tons of spell support in and out of combat with all of your Bard capabilities.

[jaappleton]

Since we seem open to sweeping changes, let's go another route. Valor Bard.

Max out Dexterity first, a 14-16 Charisma will be fine for the entire lifetime of the character. Pick up Sharpshooter either with the Human Variant feat at 1, or at level 8 with any other race. You're a full arcane spell caster with Healing Word and rituals. You have enough social/knowledge/stealth capability + Expertise to deal with everything you can think of out of combat. Choose spells that enhance your utility plus Lesser/Greater Restoration.

Big reason I'm advocating for Valor Bard over Lore is combat strength. Being able to fire off Sharpshooter shots in combat can really help alleviate the damage needed from your GWM friend. S/he won't feel like they're the only ones doing damage, and you'll still be providing tons of spell support in and out of combat with all of your Bard capabilities.

I played a Bard in my last campaign and was looking for something different.

Plus, in a two person party, fights can get VERY swingy if one of us goes down. I think the Metamagic Twinned Spell and Quickened Spell can help mitigate that, and it breaks the Concentration limit. Shield of Faith, or Haste affecting two targets can really turn the tide in our favor.

[Biggstick]

I played a Bard in my last campaign and was looking for something different.

Plus, in a two person party, fights can get VERY swingy if one of us goes down. I think the Metamagic Twinned Spell and Quickened Spell can help mitigate that, and it breaks the Concentration limit. Shield of Faith, or Haste affecting two targets can really turn the tide in our favor.

I mean, those are great spells to Twin! And they can absolutely turn the tide of a combat in your favor.

With that line of thought, any Sorcerer option will work out for you imo. Twinned Haste/Fly are both going to be great for your two player party. If you're going that route though, I'd suggest going full on into the Blaster/Controller Sorcerer though. Avoid any of these pretenses that you have about serving other role's in the party. Be the Arcane magic manipulating caster you were always meant to be. ;)

[jaappleton]

I mean, those are great spells to Twin! And they can absolutely turn the tide of a combat in your favor.

With that line of thought, any Sorcerer option will work out for you imo. Twinned Haste/Fly are both going to be great for your two player party. If you're going that route though, I'd suggest going full on into the Blaster/Controller Sorcerer though. Avoid any of these pretenses that you have about serving other role's in the party. Be the Arcane magic manipulating caster you were always meant to be. ;)

But Life or War domain? War gets Shield of Faith, but Life gets Cure Wounds. One is possibly the best twinnable buff for us as a lv1 spell, possibly the best twinnable buff prior to Haste as a lv3 spell (Which is quite a few sessions away for us!) the other is the only healing spell I'm going to be able to get my hands on.

I mean, my Fighter friend only has like 16 AC... Taking that to 18... That's big. That's real big.

And if we live long enough to lv5 and I twin Haste, he's going from 1 attack to 3, and keeping that +2 to AC. So I'm saying it wouldn't be an either / or scenario there. He could almost always have that +2 AC.

[jaappleton]

Officially going for War Domain Favored Soul.



I need a race that gets me to 16 Con and 16 Charisma.

I think I've narrowed down the list of races which can do that:

Revenant Dragonborn - +1 Str, +1 Con, +1 Cha - No darkvision, Necrotic Resistance, Necrotic Dragonbreath, regenerate 1 HP when below half HP max
Triton - Same Stat Bonuses - Fog Cloud, Wall of Water, speak with aquatic creatures
Variant Human - Feat
Abyssal Tiefling - +2 Cha, +1 Con - Darkvision, some bonus HP, random bonus spells (No Fire resistance here)
Volo's Scourge Tiefling - Darkvision, bonus damage, slight healing, AoE aura once / day
Half Elf - Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, skill bonus or Drow magic


I'll be honest, Revenant Dragonborn really appeals to me, but it's MUCH more suited to a Shadow Sorc as opposed to Favored Soul.

If I go Human, what's the best Feat?