Favorite Obscure Races?

[Palanan]

So, what are some races that tend to be overlooked, but have some quirk or aspect which you really like? From anywhere in 3.0, 3.5 or Pathfinder.

For my part, I like the hybsils from Monsters of Faerûn, which are sort of halfling/fawn centaur creatures. I don’t think I’ve seen them mentioned anywhere apart from that one book. They seem like they’d be a natural component of a wilderness campaign, but I never hear much about them.

[Technetium43]

I had a setting that prominently involved Hybsils once, I love them. :D

[Hamste]

Dvati are pretty cool. You get to play twins.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Technetium43
I had a setting that prominently involved Hybsils once, I love them. :D

That...is awesome. I hardly ever come across anyone who even knows what they are.

How did they figure in your setting? Tell me more. :smalltongue:

[Ludic]

Unseelie Fae template. It just makes the use of human as a chassis infinitely better.

Subtype change to Fae.
Wings with double movement for fly (average),
At a minimum Low Light, but possibly Dark, Tremor or Blindsense (if you roll right),
a DR5,10,15/Cold Iron based on HD,
+2dex, +2Cha, +4 Intimidate,
Season power (Magic Circle of Nature (Magic Circle Against Evil but against anything that isn't Fae, Animal or Magical Beast), or at will remove fatigue, daze, exhaustion, nauseated that also functions as a turn undead (but has to be touch), or a Dispel based on Cha, or a negative to save equal to charisma bonus to all adjacent non-fae creatures). And all the choices are supernatural abilities to.

Sure you gain an iron vulnerability of 1d6 (pfft, DR), and -2 str and -2 con, but the whole package is +0 LA.

[Venger]

darfellan is a lot of fun. very useful for when you need a bite attack.

[Technetium43]

That...is awesome. I hardly ever come across anyone who even knows what they are.

How did they figure in your setting? Tell me more. :smalltongue:

Basically that entire aspect of the setting was an area that consisted entirely of small fey. It was led by a high level Pixie warlock, there were Nixie cavalry that rode sharks, Grig alchemists and farmers, and the Hybsil basically were highly mobile nomadic plains roamers that came to the nations defense when it needed defending. Also I took the whole 'male hybsils are dangerous daredevils and female hybsil are crafty planners' and ran with it, I had a whole writeup on how they worked. I'll go look and see if I still have the link.

[AlanBruce]

Unseelie Fae template. It just makes the use of human as a chassis infinitely better.

Subtype change to Fae.
Wings with double movement for fly (average),
At a minimum Low Light, but possibly Dark, Tremor or Blindsense (if you roll right),
a DR5,10,15/Cold Iron based on HD,
+2dex, +2Cha, +4 Intimidate,
Season power (Magic Circle of Nature (Magic Circle Against Evil but against anything that isn't Fae, Animal or Magical Beast), or at will remove fatigue, daze, exhaustion, nauseated that also functions as a turn undead (but has to be touch), or a Dispel based on Cha, or a negative to save equal to charisma bonus to all adjacent non-fae creatures). And all the choices are supernatural abilities to.

Sure you gain an iron vulnerability of 1d6 (pfft, DR), and -2 str and -2 con, but the whole package is +0 LA.

Unseelie is indeed a pretty good template, but there are two factors to consider for a potential player who wants to take on such template.

1. Alignment: Always evil.

2. When rolling a percentage to check for flight, there is a 33% chance that no wings come out.

The Seasonal Powers are very good- pity you are limited to one per Unseelie Fey.

Of course, all those points above can be waived by the DM.

[Ludic]

Unseelie is indeed a pretty good template, but there are two factors to consider for a potential player who wants to take on such template.

1. Alignment: Always evil.

2. When rolling a percentage to check for flight, there is a 33% chance that no wings come out.

The Seasonal Powers are very good- pity you are limited to one per Unseelie Fey.

Of course, all those points above can be waived by the DM.

BoED has redemption rules that can easily change alignment as part of backstory.

And check out the entry for wings again. It says 'Select the wings or roll randomly (see the table below).' I missed that my first Unseelie.

[Ellrin]

I've always liked the fluff for gloamings—they're sort of like flying, planetouched halflings that happen to have the worst neighbors in the material plane.

[Doctor Despair]

The Seasonal Powers are very good- pity you are limited to one per Unseelie Fey.

Of course, all those points above can be waived by the DM.

Although Winters Chill is easily my favorite by far for early game cheese ;) Summers Caress is a close second, favored for non-cheese builds, although if it isn't a cheese build we probly ought to be staying away from UF all together XD

[Psyren]

Astomoi (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/race-points-unknown/astomoi) are a recent favorite - I love their fluff, crunch, and especially art.

[Eladrinblade]

Anaxi and Cansin: law and chaos planetouched from a dragon magazine, both are much better than the crappy ones from the MM2

[Troacctid]

Daelkyr Half-Blood is pretty interesting and quite powerful.

Gruwaar may not exactly be unique, with its relatively bland set of racial abilities, but it is definitely obscure and it has great stat mods.

Glimmerfolk are notable for being one of the only LA +0 outsiders, and they have some nice SLAs.

Everyone knows about Humans, and Strongheart Halflings are fairly common knowledge as well, but fewer people remember Exiled Dwarves, the other race to get an unrestricted bonus feat at 1st level. They have pretty favorable stat adjustments and are great for fighter-types.

Marrulurks are really nice for an ECL 4 race. They have decent racial hit dice and great racial abilities that actually stack up very well against class levels.

Cactacae (cactus-people) are a rare plant-type race for +2 LA. They have powerful build and some Goliath-esque stats, plus plant immunities, but my favorite thing about them is the racial weapons that they get weapon familiarity with, which include a crossbow that fires giant circular buzzsaws instead of bolts, and a giant cleaver that's basically a sugliin with no drawback and a better crit mod.

Cheshire Cats (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) are just cool.

[Grand Arbiter]

Hard to assign a tangible reason to it, but aaracockra from Monsters of Faerûn strike me as an interesting race.

[Rebel7284]

Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale is one of my favorites. Large size in return for 3 good HD? Sign me up. Lots of roleplay potential since they are so weird. You're pretty much going BSF with them and those certainly need love.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Technetium43
Also I took the whole 'male hybsils are dangerous daredevils and female hybsil are crafty planners' and ran with it, I had a whole writeup on how they worked. I'll go look and see if I still have the link.

Hope you can find the link, I’m definitely interested in hearing more.


Originally Posted by Ellrin
I've always liked the fluff for gloamings—they're sort of like flying, planetouched halflings that happen to have the worst neighbors in the material plane.

Thanks for reminding me of these—I hardly ever hear about them, and they definitely qualify as obscure.


Originally Posted by Psyren
Astomoi are a recent favorite - I love their fluff, crunch, and especially art.

And wouldn’t you know, my copy of Bestiary 5 should be arriving in a couple of days. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Troacctid
Gruwaar…

...cactus-people....

Where are you getting these from? Never heard of them before.

[denthor]

Skulk plus 10 to hide even after full round of movement human sized damage can run and still have great hide due to chameleon ability at 1st level

[Crake]

Probably my favourite "obscure" race (it's not really that obscure, it's in the MMI, I just hardly ever see them in use) is the Aranea. Works great as a sorcerer chassis, maybe not so well for a PC (+4 LA hurts), but as an NPC, it gets some nice bonuses for a mere +1 CR over a standard race sorcerer of equal level, +4 across the board, except for str (+0) and wis (+2), darkvision, shapechanger subtype, magical beast givign it full bab, all good saves and d10HD for it's first 3 "levels". They even come with iron will as a bonus feat for easy entry into ur-priest into mystic theurge if you were so inclined.

I've only had a chance to run one in a game ever, but it was quite a memorable encounter.

[Ludic]

Where are you getting these from? Never heard of them before.

They're from Bas-Lag, it's a fantasy setting used by China Miéville in his novels.

[WhamBamSam]

darfellan is a lot of fun. very useful for when you need a bite attack.The problem with natural weapon races, is that it's sort of too easy to get natural weapons through feats. For instance, a Human with Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment: Hunger Domain) is as good or better as a bite race a lot of the time because they have the same number of 'free' feats. It's sort of a shame, really, to see races like Darfellan hedged out this way, but unless you also need a swim speed or can't qualify for Planar Touchstone or something, their niche gets encroached upon by the game's anthrocentricism.

One semi-obscure natural weapon race that I do like, is the Kenku (MMIII), which has a pair of claws and also a nice little bonus when flanking, which serves as at least something of an answer to their 'human analogue,' a Silverbrow Human with Shape Soulmeld (Claws of the Wyrm).


Glimmerfolk are notable for being one of the only LA +0 outsiders, and they have some nice SLAs.

Everyone knows about Humans, and Strongheart Halflings are fairly common knowledge as well, but fewer people remember Exiled Dwarves, the other race to get an unrestricted bonus feat at 1st level. They have pretty favorable stat adjustments and are great for fighter-types.

Cactacae (cactus-people) are a rare plant-type race for +2 LA. They have powerful build and some Goliath-esque stats, plus plant immunities, but my favorite thing about them is the racial weapons that they get weapon familiarity with, which include a crossbow that fires giant circular buzzsaws instead of bolts, and a giant cleaver that's basically a sugliin with no drawback and a better crit mod.Interesting. I hadn't heard of these. What sources are they from?

I really like Beguilers (Shining South), as LA+0 Magical Beasts with some cool abilities, but unfortunately it's LA+0 (Cohort). A more widely applicable playable Magical Beast is a normal race with Aspect of the Wolf (perhaps from a scroll) and then Planar Familiar (https://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011020a) cast on them turning them first into an Animal, and then into a Magical Beast by the Celestial or Fiendish Template. It's LA+2, but it's something. There's also the Abrian (Fiend Folio) at 2 RHD/1 LA, but their stat mods are often not ideal for things you'd want to use the type for.

Lupins (Dragon Compendium) are cool. They're LA+0 Monstrous Humanoids and have Ride as a class skill for all classes. Fun stuff, though I do see them come up occasionally.

Mechanatrixes (Fiend Folio) and their lesser version (Player's Guide to Faerun) are nifty. They're healed by electricity damage, which allows for some entertaining shenanigans. As with Lupins, I do see them come up occasionally, but they're at least semi-obscure.

Mena and Feral-Kind Cyclopeans (Dragon 323) are obscure for good reason given their source, but LA+0 giants are cool, especially with the LA+0 caster-friendly Primordial Giant template (Secrets of Xendrik). Even at LA+1, Primordial Half-Giant is pretty cool, and doesn't come up all that often.

[FocusWolf413]

Unseelie Fae template. It just makes the use of human as a chassis infinitely better.

Subtype change to Fae.
Wings with double movement for fly (average),
At a minimum Low Light, but possibly Dark, Tremor or Blindsense (if you roll right),
a DR5,10,15/Cold Iron based on HD,
+2dex, +2Cha, +4 Intimidate,
Season power (Magic Circle of Nature (Magic Circle Against Evil but against anything that isn't Fae, Animal or Magical Beast), or at will remove fatigue, daze, exhaustion, nauseated that also functions as a turn undead (but has to be touch), or a Dispel based on Cha, or a negative to save equal to charisma bonus to all adjacent non-fae creatures). And all the choices are supernatural abilities to.

Sure you gain an iron vulnerability of 1d6 (pfft, DR), and -2 str and -2 con, but the whole package is +0 LA.

Any reasonable DM bans them or adds LA.


Daelkyr Half-Blood is pretty interesting and quite powerful.

Gruwaar may not exactly be unique, with its relatively bland set of racial abilities, but it is definitely obscure and it has great stat mods.

Glimmerfolk are notable for being one of the only LA +0 outsiders, and they have some nice SLAs.

Everyone knows about Humans, and Strongheart Halflings are fairly common knowledge as well, but fewer people remember Exiled Dwarves, the other race to get an unrestricted bonus feat at 1st level. They have pretty favorable stat adjustments and are great for fighter-types.

Marrulurks are really nice for an ECL 4 race. They have decent racial hit dice and great racial abilities that actually stack up very well against class levels.

Cactacae (cactus-people) are a rare plant-type race for +2 LA. They have powerful build and some Goliath-esque stats, plus plant immunities, but my favorite thing about them is the racial weapons that they get weapon familiarity with, which include a crossbow that fires giant circular buzzsaws instead of bolts, and a giant cleaver that's basically a sugliin with no drawback and a better crit mod.

Cheshire Cats (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) are just cool.

Where is the Exiled Dwarf found?

[J-H]

Jaebrin from MMV. LA+1 fey, no RHD. They have a bite attack that inflicts a Will save penalty, and a few other thing. They are also completely immune to the entire enchantment school, but can auto-feign being charmed/dominated/etc.
They make good tricksters, and could be great in a social-heavy campaign.

Yakfolk (MM3?) have always been interesting, but I've never found a use for them. They have a % chance of carrying a magic staff, and they have weird body-snatching abilities.

[Doctor Despair]

Any reasonable DM bans them or adds LA.


That's quite the assumption. I'd say it'd be more fair to say that DMs of low-level low-optimization campaigns would be justified in banning them or adding LA. Personally, I'd just adjust the difficulty and nature of the encounters accordingly, but perhaps I'm unreasonable. :p

[Psyren]

Everyone knows about Humans, and Strongheart Halflings are fairly common knowledge as well, but fewer people remember Exiled Dwarves, the other race to get an unrestricted bonus feat at 1st level.

My Azurin's blue eyes fill with tears :smallfrown:

[Troacctid]

Where are you getting these from? Never heard of them before.
Interesting. I hadn't heard of these. What sources are they from?
Where is the Exiled Dwarf found?
Yes! Totally winning the obscurity contest! :smallcool:

Gruwaar is from Dragon #317. Exiled Dwarf is from Dragon #320. Glimmerfolk is from Dragon #321. Cactacae is from Dragon #352.

I'll add a few more oddball obscure races as well:

Laika (dog-people) are kind of cute, even if they're not all that good. They have a bite attack and get Track as a bonus feat.
Khepri (insect-people) are notable as one of the only LA +0 races that gives a Wisdom bonus, and for having tasers as a racial weapon. Yeah, tasers.
Tortles are turtle-people! Gotta love turtles!
Athasian Humans come with +2 to two ability scores of your choice and some very impressive natural psionic abilities at the cost of +1 LA. And they still keep the standard human abilities too. Definitely good value for the LA.
Broodguard is a +0 LA template that gives you Rage 1/day plus some other stuff. I never see anyone talk about it, though. Sure, it penalizes your Int and Cha, but it's +0 LA!
Half-Nymph is +2 LA, but it comes with some sweet ability score bonuses and a very nice Awesome Beauty ability.
Aleithian Dwarves need updating for 3.5, but if you don't give them any LA, they're actually kind of nuts. Great ability scores and some very potent PLAs.
Obah-Blessed: For those times when two arms just aren't enough.



My Azurin's blue eyes fill with tears :smallfrown:
How dare you imply that azurins aren't human! That's offensive!

[neriractor]

Spiderlings, Little hybrids of spiders and deep halflings with a climb speed and some other spider-themed abilities.

[John Longarrow]

Still gotta give it to Mongrelfolk. Most people seem to gloss over them in game for some reason.

[JNAProductions]

Still gotta give it to Mongrelfolk. Most people seem to gloss over them in game for some reason.

Have you seen my characters? I use Mongrelfolk all the damn time.

[John Longarrow]

Have you seen my characters? I use Mongrelfolk all the damn time.

Hm.. I don't think we've ever met, so odds are I've never seen any of your characters.

[JNAProductions]

Hm.. I don't think we've ever met, so odds are I've never seen any of your characters.

Psh. Logic! :P

[KillingAScarab]

So, what are some races that tend to be overlooked, but have some quirk or aspect which you really like? From anywhere in 3.0, 3.5 or Pathfinder.

For my part, I like the hybsils from Monsters of Faerûn, which are sort of halfling/fawn centaur creatures. I don’t think I’ve seen them mentioned anywhere apart from that one book. They seem like they’d be a natural component of a wilderness campaign, but I never hear much about them.

I had a setting that prominently involved Hybsils once, I love them. :D
I will third Hybsils. Fey'ri and Wemics are also in there.

My Azurin's blue eyes fill with tears :smallfrown:
Azurin are nice, though think I prefer Rilkan for races from Magic of Incarnum.

There is a Forgotten Realms variant of werewolves called Lythari. They are all elves, they are chaotic good and if I remember correctly they don't afflict others with lycanthropy through their bite, but instead use a ritual.

[WhamBamSam]

Broodguard is a +0 LA template that gives you Rage 1/day plus some other stuff. I never see anyone talk about it, though. Sure, it penalizes your Int and Cha, but it's +0 LA!It's apparently been updated to LA+3 (PGtF Web Enhancement). Faerun monsters seem prone to burying critical information across three different sources, so it's an understandable oversight.

However, if you go by the Dragon 318 update, Hengeyokai are LA+0 now, so Badger Hengeyokai are a LA+0 rage race, as Alternate Form gives you (Ex) special attacks. They have the badger version of rage, which has some comparative limitations, but it's good enough for qualification in a lot of cases.

[John Longarrow]

Psh. Logic! :P

I know, I've warned others not to use it in online debates.... Should have taken my own advice... :smallbiggrin:

[AtlasSniperman]

T'Kel are fun, especially with the whole "Recently evolved" thing the original fluff had.
I LOVE KENKUUUUUUUUUUUU

[Muggins]

They might not be that obscure, but my vote still goes to the Karsites, from Tome of Magic. They get a human bonus feat, DR 5/Magic, SR 11, the Magic-Draining and Spell Healing abilities, and some nice stats for the low, low cost of +2 LA and never being able to cast arcane or divine magic.

So, you know. Just become a mundane, or use Incarnum (with your sweet +4 Con mod), or become a warlock, or a dragonfire adept (hello again, +4 Con mod), or a psionicist, or a martial adept. Don't limit yourself!

They're even better if you're playing E6, gestalt, or with LA buyoff.

[Ellrin]

They might not be that obscure, but my vote still goes to the Karsites, from Tome of Magic. [...] So, you know. Just become a mundane, or use Incarnum (with your sweet +4 Con mod), or become a warlock, or a dragonfire adept (hello again, +4 Con mod), or a psionicist, or a martial adept.

Or a Truenamer!


Don't limit yourself!

...oh, never mind, then.

[SangoProduction]

Dvati are one of my current obsessions. I also kinda like Changeling though I think even Gnomes would be more "obscure", if not for WoW. Hengeyokai, though, are very obscure, especially since they aren't really playable unless you have the errata, which removes the LA. Without the LA they make for nice alternative Humans, if you have no particular *need* for the feat or you have access to flaws. I like them partially because they are spirit cat people, instead of just being cat people which is like, so blasé.

[Jowgen]

I'll have to go with the not that obscure Feytouched from Fiend Folio. As written they are already quite good with Mind-affecting immunity, at Will Charm Person, and modifiers for a +1 LA. The obscure thing is the ammount of goodie options that come with that race.

If you add the 3.5 update booklet, they also get DR 5/Cold Iron for free. If you add online articles, they can get themselves the Half-Fey template (FF) (and thus the Unseelie Fey Kelir feat for free) via Transition for a reduced LA cost of a +1. The real fun there is is that you can, by RAW, get the whole bundle for effectively a +1.5 LA; by buying off Feytouched +1 LA at 3, which sets you back to one, and then take Half-Fey to again buy off LA +1 at 3.

That places the whole cost at 6000 exp.

[Inevitability]

Buomman are interesting for being the one of the only +0 LA races that boosts wisdom, and the only one of those that isn't commonly banned (the other races are either lesser planetouched, anthropomorphic animals, or tiny MM2 fey). Downside; you can't speak.

[John Longarrow]

Not sure how obscure, but I helped a friend put together a Neraphim gish build. Should piss off someone when he alter selfs into a Dwarven Ancestor for a massive AC boost.

[Rebel7284]

They might not be that obscure, but my vote still goes to the Karsites, from Tome of Magic. They get a human bonus feat, DR 5/Magic, SR 11, the Magic-Draining and Spell Healing abilities, and some nice stats for the low, low cost of +2 LA and never being able to cast arcane or divine magic.

So, you know. Just become a mundane, or use Incarnum (with your sweet +4 Con mod), or become a warlock, or a dragonfire adept (hello again, +4 Con mod), or a psionicist, or a martial adept. Don't limit yourself!

They're even better if you're playing E6, gestalt, or with LA buyoff.

Looking at ToM, it looks like +2 Con, +2 Cha.

As far as no ability to cast spells... well there is always StP Erutide. :smallbiggrin:

[weckar]

Buomman are interesting for being the one of the only +0 LA races that boosts wisdom, and the only one of those that isn't commonly banned (the other races are either lesser planetouched, anthropomorphic animals, or tiny MM2 fey). Downside; you can't speak.
You can, you just really really shouldn't...

[Nasak]

I like diopsid, medium-sized monstrous humanoids insect-like with 6 limbs
+2 CON, -2 DEX -2 INT, darkvision, they can glide, they have bioluminiscent glands, natural armor +4, they don't sleep and are immune to sleep effects.
They have 4 arms, the secondary arms stabilize the weapons in the primary arms so they can use weapons a size larger without penalty and they can ignore the DEX prerequisite to TWF feats.
+1 LA
They are in the Dragon Compendium

[ChaosStar]

I like most of the half-breed races from Bastards and Bloodlines. (link: http://www.slideshare.net/MewChan/dd-35-bastards-and-bloodline)

[Inevitability]

I like most of the half-breed races from Bastards and Bloodlines.

Faaaaaairly sure linking what I presume isn't freely available material is illegal.

[Ruethgar]

Awakened Animals, until the DM throws a book at you and changes them, they are awesome PCs.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Unbodied are a bit obscure. Incorporeal monstrous humanoids, with the ability to disguise themselves, and racial Telepath manifesting. Very nice, if you can handle the LA +4.

[AlanBruce]

Perhaps not a favorite, but quite obscure, since I have never seen it in play ever.

The Quaraphon (MM 3. page 129)

Aberrant Centaur with two mouths and four eyes that can deafen with a loud bellow at a decent distance. Their favored class is barbarian, but the RHD and LA make it a hefty ECL 14 PC before class levels.

As an NPC, the Protean Scourge (same book as the Quaraphon, page 127), is a nice race.

Innate sorcerer spell casting. Great ability modifiers. Change Shape, SR, DR, immunities and resistances, Fighter BAB and if you're ever hit by a slashing weapon... you split.

That's right. If you're ever hit, now there's two of you fighting and casting.

Too bad there is no LA listed for such a race... one can only wonder why.

[Ravens_cry]

Tibbits! :smallbiggrin: Not super obscure, but you get to turn into a kitty! They should be much more prevalent! I got to play one for one,sadly short lived, campaign and because of a quirk of the DM (you got to play as random NPC or monsters while you were waiting for your character to show up in-game) no one even realized the tibbit was my character at first.:smallamused:

[Venger]

Buomman are interesting for being the one of the only +0 LA races that boosts wisdom, and the only one of those that isn't commonly banned (the other races are either lesser planetouched, anthropomorphic animals, or tiny MM2 fey). Downside; you can't speak.
Just learn drow sign language

[ZamielVanWeber]

The Para-Genasi, especially Ice and Ooze.

[Inevitability]

Just learn drow sign language

Not all of your party members may be able or willing to learn DSL just to faciliate your character concept.

[daremetoidareyo]

The o'bati are fun little poison dart frog halfling hybrids: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040530a

Also Ratatosk from p.210 of expedition to the demonweb pits. Flying squirrel men!!

[Zaq]

Illumians (Races of Destiny) aren't super obscure, but I love them anyway. I love the idea of people made out of words, and I love the neat mechanics that they bring to the table.

Killoren (Races of the Wild) are neat. They're LA 0 Fey that don't have any stat penalties, and their racial abilities (a giant bonus to K: Nature OR a +2 bonus to a whole pile of things OR a Smite-style special attack usable CHA times per day) are definitely more interesting than what most races come up with.

Mountain dwarves are listed in MM1, and they've got their own entry, despite being mechanically identical to "normal" (hill) dwarves in every single way. I don't know why they bothered, but that amuses me.

Vril show up in Drow of the Underdark, and I've always wanted to do something with them. They're LA 0 goblinoids who have a weird sonic attack and the ability to toughen their skin to gain temporary DR. Unfortunately, they have ridiculously harsh daily limits on both of those abilities, and since WotC hates goblins, they have pretty unfavorable stat mods in general, so they aren't actually useful unless your GM is willing to throw them a bone and rewrite the specifics on their unique tricks.

Kenku have already been mentioned, but I agree that they're neat. Neraphim, as well, have already been mentioned, but I like that they're LA 0 Outsiders, I like that they have nice NA, and their Neraph Camouflage ability is actually pretty useful.

Muckdwellers (Serpent Kingdoms) are pretty well-known, but they're still funny to me. Tiny size, LA 0, crazy good AC (between sky-high DEX, good NA, and Tiny size, you have about a +8 to AC before you put in any effort), a fun Spit attack, Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat . . . fun stuff. The fact that your carrying capacity is basically nonexistent is a real drag, though.


Not all of your party members may be able or willing to learn DSL just to faciliate your character concept.

It's easier (well, equally easy) to convince all of them to learn Buommi, a language that consists entirely of singing. Buommi is hands down my favorite "everyone in the party learns this language and then we can communicate just among ourselves" language, mostly just because of the mental image.

[unseenmage]

The Vashar from the BoVD have always held a place in the darkest parts of my heart.
They are to humans what drow are to elves.

That I can play as any Construct in PF as a character of that Construct's CR makes several lower CR Constructs into favorited obscure races of mine.

Homunculus get a LA in an old 3.0 Dragon mag but I havn't gotten to play one yet.

I do wish there were more playable Constructs besides just warforged and more warforged.

[bekeleven]

Hmm. I think the only one I really like that's more obscure than anthro animals is the Petal from MM3. It has LA +2 (Cohort), but I've never seen a DM disallow them when asked. They have most of the good parts of pixies besides the invisibility, for half the LA, and they're just hilarious! +10 Dex, tiny size and weapon finesse as a bonus feat means you never miss attacks, +4 Con and DR5/Cold Iron (and the aforementioned tiny size) mean you're survivable, Fly 60 (Good) and LLV mean you're a scout, and being a lil dude dressed in leaves with bright technicolor hair flying around everywhere singing people to sleep means you're great. (Ignore the -8 strength, how often is that to ever come up?)

[Darrin]

Obscure:

Brood Monkey (Far Corners: Monsters of the Lost City (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041126a)). One of the few ways to get Flurry of Blows without being Lawful. They occasionally get a mention in Iron Chef every once in a while.

Faun (Deities & Demigods p. 133). +2 Dex, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. Fey type, some forgettable music/sonic abilities, and bard as a favored class... but WTF a Charisma penalty? I guess the +4 racial bonus to Perform helps make up for it a little.

Flyer Saurial (Serpent Kingdoms Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040717a)). The Bladebacks and Finheads are forgettable, but these small-sized humanoids can fly 50' (average), making them ideal for alter self utility. +4 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Cha, NA +4, claw/claw/tail. However, 2 RHD, and LA +3 make them unsuitable as your base form.

Hornhead Saurial (Serpent Kingdoms Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040717a)). The only large-sized humanoid still in print that hasn't been nerfed with errata. +2 Str, +2 Int: Brains and brawn! NA +5, claw/claw/tail, but criminally no gore attack. 2 RHD and LA +2 make this a poor choice for a PC, but... hey, that Triceracop/Robocop slashfic isn't going to write itself, you know!

Jerren (BoVD p. 15). Functionally identical to halflings, except they are... uh... sneaky and unstrustworthy. {*uncomfortable cough*} Ok, well, the +2 racial bonuses that, uh... "normal" halflings get on Jump, Climb, and Move Silently is switched over to Intimidate, Bluff, and Move Silently. That's it. Pretty much no reason to take this race over the standard Halfling.

Shadowswyfts (Planar Handbook p. 14). LA +1... I don't even... WTF?

Spiker (Planar Handbook p. 15). Up until I posted Spikey McSpikeface (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21517220&postcount=92), I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention this race. Maybe the artwork was too creepy? Anyway, LA +0, DR 2/bludgeoning (likely an editing mistake given the description), acid resistance 5, and built-in armor spikes as natural weapons. What sets them above Darfellen or Warforged is their natural weapon can explicitly be used as a manufactured weapon, but unlike normal armor spikes, can still take advantage of Power Attack.

Vasharan (BoVD p. 13). Evil humans, except your bonus feat has to be a [Vile] feat. This race really should have made an appearance in Iron Chef LXXIX: Black Blood Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492923-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIX) but somehow didn't. Outside of Black Blood Hunter, I haven't really found a use for this race yet... possibly a combination of [Vile] feats aren't particularly good so why would you take them, and if you really want [Vile] feats you can get them for free by worshiping an Elder Evil.

Vril (Drow of the Underdark p. 126). One of the more interesting goblinoid options, although an editing mistake left out their signature skinshift and shriek abilities (track them down in the errata (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20070504a)). There are a few Vril-specific feats to improve those abilities, but I haven't quite found a use for them yet. Also, sonic resistance 5... try and find that somewhere else!

Warforged Scout (MM3). Cute little robots! Unfortunately, the ability scores are horribad: +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 wis, -2 Cha. No slam, either. Still... so cute! I want one!

Wildren (Planar Handbook p. 17). Sorta mix between a feral dwarf and a dire badger? Badgerfolk? Anyway, dwarven step (speed 20') and stability, burrow 10', claw/claw, scent, 1-round mini-rage, and an at-will speak with badgers ability. I have no idea what this race would be good at, but if you did find something, it would probably be pretty interesting.

[Troacctid]

Jerren (BoVD p. 15). Functionally identical to halflings, except they are... uh... sneaky and unstrustworthy. {*uncomfortable cough*} Ok, well, the +2 racial bonuses that, uh... "normal" halflings get on Jump, Climb, and Move Silently is switched over to Intimidate, Bluff, and Move Silently. That's it. Pretty much no reason to take this race over the standard Halfling.
There's no reason NOT to take it over the standard Lightfoot Halfling if you're just comparing them side by side. Bluff and Intimidate are way better than Jump and Climb.

Doesn't stand up to Water, Strongheart, Shoal, Deep, or Unsheltered Halfling, though. Probably on roughly even footing with Desert and Tallfellow Halfling.

Since we're on the subject, lemme give a shout-out to some Halfling variants. Everyone knows Strongheart and Water Halfling are the best ones, but still, there are a bunch that are underappreciated compared to the Lightfoots.

Deep Halfling: Lose Climb and Jump bonuses, get darkvision. Great trade.

Shoal Halfling: Lose bonuses to slings and whatever, get a swim speed and waterbreathing. Great trade.

Unsheltered Halfling: Lose bonuses to saves and against fear, gain Dodge and your choice of Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude, or Iron Will as bonus feats. Great for those tricky prestige classes.

Tallfellow Halfling: Lose bonuses to Climb, Jump, and Move Silently, gain bonuses to Spot, Listen, and Search, and the ability to instinctively detect secret doors, as an elf. Good trade overall.

[Inevitability]

Before I forget: Deep Dwarf. It's pretty much superior to the standard mountain dwarf in every way, as long as you don't mind spending 10 GP on some sunglasses.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Zaq
Killoren (Races of the Wild) are neat. They're LA 0 Fey that don't have any stat penalties, and their racial abilities (a giant bonus to K: Nature OR a +2 bonus to a whole pile of things OR a Smite-style special attack usable CHA times per day) are definitely more interesting than what most races come up with.

I really wish there was more support for the killoren. Fact is, I want to like this race; there’s the nubbin of a cool concept and a few hints about what they could be, but I wish there was much more to work with. I know they’re intended for a DM to flesh out, but it would be nice to have a few more killoren-specific options, as well as just a little more cultural background to work with.


Originally Posted by Zaq
The fact that your carrying capacity is basically nonexistent is a real drag, though.

I see what you did there. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Darrin
Warforged Scout (MM3). Cute little robots! Unfortunately, the ability scores are horribad: +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 wis, -2 Cha. No slam, either. Still... so cute! I want one!

I used a pair of these as enemy scouts in a previous campaign I ran. Gave them a couple levels of ranger and sorcerer, plus a custom miniature tressym as a familiar for one of them. They completely flummoxed the PCs without ever engaging in hard contact. Good times.

[Inevitability]

I really wish there was more support for the killoren. Fact is, I want to like this race; there’s the nubbin of a cool concept and a few hints about what they could be, but I wish there was much more to work with. I know they’re intended for a DM to flesh out, but it would be nice to have a few more killoren-specific options, as well as just a little more cultural background to work with.

4th edition has them returning as Wilden, with quite some extra fluff. I suggest looking there.

[Psyren]

Speaking of 4e, I quite like their Deva race (or the PF version, Samsarans.)

I also like 4e's take on Dragonborn, despite the Giant's subtle dig at them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0676.html) :smallbiggrin:



I do wish there were more playable Constructs besides just warforged and more warforged.

4th edition also has a living construct race called the Shardmind that are basically Crystal Golem-Folk. I think that would be a worthy concept to convert.

[WhamBamSam]

Vasharan (BoVD p. 13). Evil humans, except your bonus feat has to be a [Vile] feat. This race really should have made an appearance in Iron Chef LXXIX: Black Blood Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492923-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIX) but somehow didn't. Outside of Black Blood Hunter, I haven't really found a use for this race yet... possibly a combination of [Vile] feats aren't particularly good so why would you take them, and if you really want [Vile] feats you can get them for free by worshiping an Elder Evil.The problem with Vashar is that there's nothing stopping a standard human from taking a vile feat with their bonus feat, so there's really no point to them.

A few LA+1 options I've just remembered...

Psionic Duergar aren't that obscure (they're in the SRD after all), but with their Expansion PLA scaling with level and the existance of a feat (Duergar Expansion, CPsi) that gives them extra uses, they can sort of serve as a LA+1 Huge sized race, assuming you don't need to get any bigger.

I'm fond of taking a single level in the Half-Fiend Template Class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a), especially if you can change a few of the SLAs and things around with the Half-Fiendish (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) Variety (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070209a) variant. Pretty decent at LA+1.

If you'd rather have more of the Half-Fiend goodies but don't need or don't want the Outsider type you can mash together Lesser Tiefling and a single level of the Tiefling/Half-Fiend Transition Class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040319a), again, with Half-Fiendish Variety sprinkled to taste.

[Malimar]

In theory, I quite enjoy the Lumi from MM3, though their 2 RHD and +2LA make them rubbish as PCs in practice. Their main schticks are a.) they're glowy like a disco ball and b.) their head is not attached to their body, making them immune to Vorpal weapons.


Still gotta give it to Mongrelfolk. Most people seem to gloss over them in game for some reason.
The main nation in my setting is majority mongrelfolk, for reasons. But I've never seen anybody else use them, and I only had like one player ever try to play one.

[Inevitability]

I also like 4e's take on Dragonborn, despite the Giant's subtle dig at them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0676.html) :smallbiggrin:

The real funny part is that dragonborn had boobs in 3.5 too, but you didn't hear people complaining back then. :smalltongue:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8f/34/85/8f3485cdb7d8f464b0e232b8f264baa5.jpg

[Troacctid]

The real funny part is that dragonborn had boobs in 3.5 too, but you didn't hear people complaining back then. :smalltongue:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8f/34/85/8f3485cdb7d8f464b0e232b8f264baa5.jpg
3.5 dragonborn aren't actually reptilian. Plus, they retain a lot of the physiology and the basic shape of their former body.

[Pugwampy]

I am a Pugwampy fan . A Pugwampy is a bad luck fairy who sporting a very ugly dogs head . Its bad luck aura makes a player roll twice and use the lowest number . :smallbiggrin:

Gnolls will run for the hills if they encounter one ..... at least that was what the module said.

[Venger]

In theory, I quite enjoy the Lumi from MM3, though their 2 RHD and +2LA make them rubbish as PCs in practice. Their main schticks are a.) they're glowy like a disco ball and b.) their head is not attached to their body, making them immune to Vorpal weapons.


The main nation in my setting is majority mongrelfolk, for reasons. But I've never seen anybody else use them, and I only had like one player ever try to play one.

Mongrelfolk are great if you're con sad especially if you go dragonborn

[ZamielVanWeber]

Mongrelfolk are great if you're con sad especially if you go dragonborn

I ultimately switched to Ice/Ooze paragenasi for that (part of why I love them). Ooz is -2 Dex +4 Con vs -2 Int/-4 Cha, +4 Con. Ice are similar with -2 Dex/-2 Cha for +2 Wis/+4 Con.

[noce]

Many of the races I'm interested in have already been mentioned, except Maug.
I love Maugs.

[GilesTheCleric]

Many of the races I'm interested in have already been mentioned, except Maug.
I love Maugs.

It's easy to see why you love them. They are their own best friends, after all.

[Waker]

It's easy to see why you love them. They are their own best friends, after all.

Thank you for that.

As for my favorite obscure races that haven't been mentioned yet:
Adu'jas- From the same Dragon Magazine issue that the Gruuwar were introduced in, this is one of the few ways to play as a sentient plant character without eating up a ton of RHD and LA.
Phoelarch- Phoenix are one of my favorite mythical creatures, so I had little difficulty accepting this race as being really cool.

[Thurbane]

Many of the races I'm interested in have already been mentioned, except Maug.
I love Maugs.

Maugs are awesome!

I'm quite fond of Brood Monkeys (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041126a), even if there are a little underwhelming as PCs (2 RHD and LA +2).

[Ieagleroar]

I'm quite fond of Brood Monkeys (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041126a), even if there are a little underwhelming as PCs (2 RHD and LA +2).

I hear you. I like the idea of Witchknifes from MM3, but at +3LA and 9 RHD, I doubt I'll ever get to use them.

[Sky]

I like the Orang-Pendak (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/race-points-unknown/orang-pendak) from Pathfinder Bestiary 5. Small race with a bonus to Strength? Yes, please!

[Ravens_cry]

I like the Orang-Pendak (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/race-points-unknown/orang-pendak) from Pathfinder Bestiary 5. Small race with a bonus to Strength? Yes, please!

You can do that with Aasimar too. Just choose a +2 strength variant (like Angelkin) and take the Small option, reflecting being born to some Small race.
Still, being able to play the Librarian? I'll take it!:smallbiggrin:

[Thurbane]

For third party, I quite like the Ubue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?483357-d20-Optimizing-the-Ubue) (a third party adaptation of a 1E/Basic D&D monster). Tome of Horrors.

[Efrate]

Tortles been mentioned but I like them. I once played a tortle druid who only spoke in Buddhist koans and rode a rhino into battle, with his dire wolf buddy hanging around. Just a bit short of getting a boar to replace the wolf when the campaign ended. It was fun though.

[Thurbane]

I will third Hybsils.

Do Hybsils have a listed LA? Was it in the 3.5 update?

Found it, LA +3

Seems a little steep?
- Str -2, Dex +6, Con +2, Int +2
- 50 ft base speed
- +2 natural armor
- Bonus feats: Dodge & Mobility
- Shortbow proficiency
- Minor SLAs 1/day (Dancing lights, jump, mirror image & pass without trace)
- See invisibility at will
- Poison immunity
- a few minor skill bonuses

..actually, LA +3 seems about right, at least from WotC usually criteria. LA +2 might be more apt for actual play.

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG61.jpg

[thoroughlyS]

The Norker (Dr343 p.53) might be the only playable goblinoid in the game. And I say that as a true fan of goblinoids. A 1d4 bite and +5 NA for +0 LA*? Yes please. The fact that they look like the abomination (https://www.google.com/search?biw=1270&bih=870&tbm=isch&q=abomination&chips=q:abomination,g_1:marvel&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhz5WHwcDRAhVByFQKHRCjB94Q4lYIHigA&dpr=1) is just a bonus.

*The statblock list +1 LA, but text trumps table, and no LA is listed in the race description.

[Rebel7284]

*The statblock list +1 LA, but text trumps table, and no LA is listed in the race description. No listed LA is not the same as LA0 though.

[Celestia]

I'm fairly certain that they're not obscure, but Warforged is probably my favorite race ever.

I'm also a fan of Dragonborn and Half-Minotar, but those are templates. Well, one is a template, and one is a...something. I'm also not sure how obscure either of them are.

Oh! And I like pretty much everything in the book Bastards and Bloodlines.

[unseenmage]

Considering 3rd party content Advanced Bestiary's Amalgam and Monstrous Lycanthrope templates are a blast to apply to base races.

The horrifying elf were dwarf!
The ever scary goblin amalgam kobold!
The intimidating halfling amalgam gnome were half-orc!

And lets not forget the Warforged Scout who, when the moon is right, transforms into a hideous Winged (SS) Warforged!
(Seriously though that poor character was traumatized, she just thought she was a doll-like prototype 'forged. Not some war machine.)

[thoroughlyS]

No listed LA is not the same as LA 0 though.The existence of the "Norkers as Characters" section implies that they are selectable as a race. Hill dwarves also lack an LA line when described in the Monster Manual text.

[Calthropstu]

I am quite fond of the stilleto race.

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a98934_race_5-stiletto.jpg

Shout out to the Planica 400 though... that looks really really tough.

http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a98934_race_9-redbull-steep.jpg

Ahhh, race puns...



For an actual answer, my favorite underused race was the avariel. They get very little mention in books, and almost no mention in adventure paths. They do get some fan service from the video games Neverwinter Nights: HOTU and Baldur's Gate 2, but outside there I almost never see them mentioned, and I'm the only one I've ever seen play them.

For Pathfinder, I am quite fond of the quasi elemental races such as the Undine, Oread, Sylph or Ifrit. Rarely seen them used though.

[Dusk Raven]

Most obscure race I can think of that I like is the Silthilar from Lords of Madness in 3.5... which isn't really a PC race, I realize, but they're Aberrations, can shift from a traditional biological shape to a swarm of tiny beings and back, can transform the flesh of others... and in a welcome change from the norm, are usually Chaotic Good.

Otherwise, I like Pathfinder's Dark Folk, degenerate beings speculated to once have been to humans as drow are to elves.

And... well, while Gnolls are core, they have the sad distinction of having their own humanoid subtype, yet I rarely see anything interesting done with them, so I count them as "obscure" or at least underrated.

[Calthropstu]

And... well, while Gnolls are core, they have the sad distinction of having their own humanoid subtype, yet I rarely see anything interesting done with them, so I count them as "obscure" or at least underrated.

Gnolls are used quite often as bad guys, but I've never seen one actually played as a PC.

They make great mooks for a lower level bbeg, but apart from that, their open hostility to civilized folk makes them more than likely to be attacked on sight by any adventuring party.

[Inevitability]

*The statblock list +1 LA, but text trumps table, and no LA is listed in the race description.

A statblock is most definitely not a table.

[Zaq]

Gnolls are used quite often as bad guys, but I've never seen one actually played as a PC.

They make great mooks for a lower level bbeg, but apart from that, their open hostility to civilized folk makes them more than likely to be attacked on sight by any adventuring party.

More like the package of 2 RHD and LA +1 isn't worth mediocre stat boosts and NA +1 with no unique abilities.

I did see someone bring a gnoll PC to the table once. It was painful to watch. He was an active liability to the party more often than not. (It didn't help that he was playing this janky third-party "Hedge Wizard" class intended for low-level NPCs, and it didn't help that the player was kind of a Chaotic Stupid problem player to begin with, but him being a gnoll seriously hurt more than it helped.)

[Muggins]

More like the package of 2 RHD and LA +1 isn't worth mediocre stat boosts and NA +1 with no unique abilities.

I did see someone bring a gnoll PC to the table once. It was painful to watch. He was an active liability to the party more often than not. (It didn't help that he was playing this janky third-party "Hedge Wizard" class intended for low-level NPCs, and it didn't help that the player was kind of a Chaotic Stupid problem player to begin with, but him being a gnoll seriously hurt more than it helped.)
Admittedly, they were talking about Pathfinder Gnolls (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp/gnoll-6-rp), which get nice martial stats (+2 Str and +2 Con, no downside) and +2 NA at no cost. No RHD, no LA, nothing.

To be fair, they don't really get anything else, but at least they're better than Pathfinder's kobolds (or, admittedly, most of the player races; most minor racial abilities just don't amount to much).

[daremetoidareyo]

What is the deal with humanoid monster races? They all have this reputation as deadly killers, but once you get into their statblocks for use as a PC race, they blow chunks.

[Muggins]

What is the deal with humanoid monster races? They all have this reputation as deadly killers, but once you get into their statblocks for use as a PC race, they blow chunks.
Well, to be fair, Pathfinder gnolls do a decent job of that. They're likely tougher and stronger than most adventurers, at no downside. They can even be spellcasters. Pathfinder orcs are pretty decent too, having a +4 strength bonus and racial features like ferocity at the cost of having penalties to their mental scores.

In 3.5e, though? Yeah. They suck.

Edit: Pathfinder orcs even get a favoured class bonus for the fighter which increases their constitution score by +2 for the purposes of Ferocity, letting them keep fighting even when they're dying. Their racial feats are also quite good, from Ferocious Action (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/ferocious-action-orc) to infinite, classless raging via Blood Vengeance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/blood-vengeance-orc-half-orc) and the like.

[thoroughlyS]

A statblock is most definitely not a table.Curses, you're right. I was using the old errata primacy rules, which lumped the two together.


When the text within a product contradicts itself, our general policy is that the primary source (actual rules text) is correct and any secondary reference (such as a table or character's statistics block) is incorrect. Exceptions to the rule will be called out specifically.

It seems they reversed that at some point.


When you find a disagreement between two D&D rules sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the primary source is correct. One example of a primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over a table entry. An individual spell description takes precedence when the short description in the beginning of the spells chapter disagrees. A monster’s statistics block supersedes the descriptive text.

I suppose it makes sense, considering the designers probably started by making the stat blocks for monsters. Oh well, I guess there really are no playable goblinoids...

[ZamielVanWeber]

Air Goblin actually works nicely.
Edit: That was a bit terse but I got distracted. Between the benefits for air and the +4 Dex bonus air goblin is not bad at all. I played a Spark Air Goblin sha'ir and the benefits I got for being small with a huge dex were impressive.

[Inevitability]

Stonedeath Assassin isn't a bad class, and requires goblinoid to get in, so that's at least one reason to play them...

[Barbarian Horde]

See a few months ago someone mentioned a Kender on the forums. I had little experience with previous editions of D&D so after reading up what a Kender was I really think it's a funny race and obscure to others who have only played 3.5 and later. I'm told there is a special place in hell for people who play Kenders though...

[Inevitability]

See a few months ago someone mentioned a Kender on the forums. I had little experience with previous editions of D&D so after reading up what a Kender was I really think it's a funny race and obscure to others who have only played 3.5 and later. I'm told there is a special place in hell for people who play Kenders though...

Did you read the party where kender players are advised to ignore personal property, self-preservation instincts and social skills?

[Celestia]

Did you read the party where kender players are advised to ignore personal property, self-preservation instincts and social skills?
Sounds like a typical murderhobo to me. *nods*

[Barbarian Horde]

You mean roleplaying someone with an Obsessive-compulsive spectrum disorder? The potential for fun is there in my opinion. Other people have their own opinions, which is fine. Anyways getting off topic, not trying to derail topic.(moving on) I thought the race fits this particular topic just fine.

[Inevitability]

Oh, I'm not arguing people can have fun playing a kender, it's just that their fun tends to be inversely proportional to that of everyone sitting at the same table.

[Bohandas]

Kender are the only obscure one I've actually gotten a chance to play, though not the only one that interests me

[Telonius]

Sharakim, from Races of Destiny. I love the fluff of them. If it weren't for that absolutely stupid +1 LA, I think they'd get a lot more attention.

[Calthropstu]

Sharakim, from Races of Destiny. I love the fluff of them. If it weren't for that absolutely stupid +1 LA, I think they'd get a lot more attention.

Yeah, any race with LA gets far less play. Sad, but no one wants to sacrifice a level. I like how the 3.5 video games did it honestly... just needed a bit more xp per level.

[Inevitability]

Yeah, any race with LA gets far less play. Sad, but no one wants to sacrifice a level. I like how the 3.5 video games did it honestly... just needed a bit more xp per level.

Well, I think the problem with that is that it exaggerates the problems LA already suffers.

If you choose to play a gray orc cleric, it's entirely possible that at ECL 2 you'll be stronger than the cleric 2's other people are playing. After all, the second level of cleric barely gives them anything (especially when you realize a gray orc's wisdom bonus already grants them most of that level), but at level 3 straight clerics suddenly get much stronger. In addition, the +2 strength and wisdom start to matter less as you naturally gain those ability scores (+2 strength matters more on a 16 strength character than on a 32 strength one, after all).

In other words: taking a race with LA tends to mean frontloading on power in exchange for the power of classes (most of which grow in power exponentially). By ECL 20, very little if any LA'ed races remain relevant, that is the entire rationale between LA buyoff.

Your suggestion, however, is like a worse version of LA buyoff. Because people now start with no LA at all, they'll be surpassing their allies even more at the beginning of the game. Later on, they're actually worse off than characters with LA buyoff, as they still suffer the XP penalties while barely gaining anything from their obscure race (a character who bought of his LA, on the other hand, no longer has to pay XP by then).

[Nifft]

Some stuff that would be obscure in my real-life games seems pretty popular online (e.g. Tibbit, Kobold, Necropolitan).

My two favorite actually obscure races from the SRD have already been mentioned: Unbodied & Aranea. They've each got LA +4 so they're obscure for a damn good reason, but I do see people playing games with free LA at times, so they're occasionally usable.

[Celestia]

Some stuff that would be obscure in my real-life games seems pretty popular online (e.g. Tibbit, Kobold, Necropolitan).

My two favorite actually obscure races from the SRD have already been mentioned: Unbodied & Aranea. They've each got LA +4 so they're obscure for a damn good reason, but I do see people playing games with free LA at times, so they're occasionally usable.
Unbodied is pretty cool. Sure, it pigeonholes you into a telepath, but I like psions more than wizards, anyways. That LA is abominable, though.

[Bohandas]

At some point I'd like to play an intelligent item psion

[Buufreak]

I think I only saw someone mention them once in passing, so I have to +1 the Wemic. It is taking an awesome creature (Centaur) and removing the worst parts and replacing it with lion. Horse body? NO! Lion body. Human torso? NO! MORE FREAKING LION!

[Malimar]

I also like the mechanatrix (planetouched from Fiend Folio), descended from, like, mechanical Outsiders. Especially fun if you have an at-will source of electricity, such as a pair of shocker lizard familiars, as mechanatrices heal with electricity.


I think I only saw someone mention them once in passing, so I have to +1 the Wemic. It is taking an awesome creature (Centaur) and removing the worst parts and replacing it with lion. Horse body? NO! Lion body. Human torso? NO! MORE FREAKING LION!

http://i.imgur.com/1qpSXrF.jpg

[EisenKreutzer]

I really like the Karkanak from Cerulean Seas. Theres something about vaguely anthropomorphic crab people thats just oddly endearing.

[Dusk Raven]

I see my mention of Gnolls inspired my conversation than I would have thought, so I'll come back and give my two copper on it.


Well, to be fair, Pathfinder gnolls do a decent job of that. They're likely tougher and stronger than most adventurers, at no downside. They can even be spellcasters. Pathfinder orcs are pretty decent too, having a +4 strength bonus and racial features like ferocity at the cost of having penalties to their mental scores.

In 3.5e, though? Yeah. They suck.

Essentially. Racial hit dice is almost never useful, and LA is just a curse. Unearthed Arcana can mitigate LA somewhat, but the racial hit dice are still terrible, although I suspect that might be easier to homebrew out. But mainly, I wanted adventures and such to do more with them. Orcs and goblins are world-famous and often in modules, but what significance do gnolls really have in the world?

Pathfinder Gnolls surprised me though. They have no negatives whatsoever, not even a penalty to their ability scores, simply getting +2 to STR and CON. They do have less in general then other races though, their only other feature as I recall being natural armor. But best of all, LA isn't a thing in Pathfinder and I've never seen a race with racial hit dice (though it's sort of implied if you want to, say, play a minotaur or some other creature without PC stats, although you actually wind up with more hit dice than other PCs as I recall because the devs recognize that racial hit dice suck). I still wound up homebrewing my own stats for them, though, to give them some nifty stuff like disease resistance.

[Jopustopin]

Phaethon - Races of Ansalon

Just a fun race to play - they look like half elves but can sprout flaming wings and fly as a free action.

[Calthropstu]

I see my mention of Gnolls inspired my conversation than I would have thought, so I'll come back and give my two copper on it.



Essentially. Racial hit dice is almost never useful, and LA is just a curse. Unearthed Arcana can mitigate LA somewhat, but the racial hit dice are still terrible, although I suspect that might be easier to homebrew out. But mainly, I wanted adventures and such to do more with them. Orcs and goblins are world-famous and often in modules, but what significance do gnolls really have in the world?

Pathfinder Gnolls surprised me though. They have no negatives whatsoever, not even a penalty to their ability scores, simply getting +2 to STR and CON. They do have less in general then other races though, their only other feature as I recall being natural armor. But best of all, LA isn't a thing in Pathfinder and I've never seen a race with racial hit dice (though it's sort of implied if you want to, say, play a minotaur or some other creature without PC stats, although you actually wind up with more hit dice than other PCs as I recall because the devs recognize that racial hit dice suck). I still wound up homebrewing my own stats for them, though, to give them some nifty stuff like disease resistance.

Oh there are PC playable races with LA. Most races intended for use, however, have none.

[Dusk Raven]

Oh there are PC playable races with LA. Most races intended for use, however, have none.

In Pathfinder? I've never seen one. Examples?

[Calthropstu]

In Pathfinder? I've never seen one. Examples?

I could have sworn I saw a level adjustment in a source book somewhere, specifically for Drow Nobles, but when I went to confirm it, it simply wasn't there. I've been having a lot of these kind of brain farts recently, which is bad because I rely on my good memory a lot. It seems that, indeed, there is no level adjustment in Pathfinder.

They do have point values for each race though, and a recommended value that people should start with. If someone has a 35 point value race, and another person has a 10 there will be a huge power disparity.

[daremetoidareyo]

It's not a favorite, but it's definitely obscure: the brownie: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/al/20041006a

[atemu1234]

I like Quicklings, what with their small stature and 120 fpr movement rate. I also once played, through two third party templates and the race itself (updated in Tome of Horrors), a Quickened Quickling Quickling. Sure, it only had a life expectancy of like fifteen years, but it could move at 960 fpr.

I may or may not have played a scout / lion totem barbarian.