[3.P] Let's Build... Lindsey McDonald

[FocusWolf413]

I'm one of those weird people that liked Angel more than BtVS. In an upcoming game, I want to play a Lindsey inspired character.

How the hell would I build him? We're starting at around 5th level.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, just going by his Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_McDonald)...

Notable powers:
"Mystical runic tattoos render him invisible to both mystical and technological surveillance devices."
"Telekinetic and transmutation abilities."
"Skilled in sorcery."
"Unknown mystical process grants him superhuman physical abilities roughly equal to those of a vampire of Angel's age."
"Exceptional skills in swordplay and hand-to-hand combat."

Sounds like a standard gish to me. Nondetection can cover the surveillance side, buff spells grant strength, hand-to-hand is part of gishing. Rest is just spells.

[Red Fel]

I'm one of those weird people that liked Angel more than BtVS. In an upcoming game, I want to play a Lindsey inspired character.

How the hell would I build him? We're starting at around 5th level.

Basically? He's hard-working, ambitious, and ruthless. He's strong, smart, and very adaptable. He's highly educated, trained as a lawyer; he's also a talented musician and a capable combatant. In short, he's competent in pretty much every field. But it all comes back to hard work - in his first appearance, he's an up-and-coming lawyer from humble beginnings who has fought his way up the ranks.

Make him a Factotum and call it a day.

[Troacctid]

"Telekinetic and transmutation abilities."
"Skilled in sorcery."
"Unknown mystical process grants him superhuman physical abilities roughly equal to those of a vampire of Angel's age."
"Exceptional skills in swordplay and hand-to-hand combat."
Geez, what the heck happened to the guy in the comics? I don't remember any of that from the show!

[DrMotives]

Geez, what the heck happened to the guy in the comics? I don't remember any of that from the show!

He was good at sword fighting in the show, but yes, I don't recall most of the rest. He does know magic from the traditional Buffy version of it, which is all ritual & more like wizardry than sorcery. He also did have the non-detection tattoos, and had a hand transplant. Although once he killed the donor of his transplanted hand, it stopped acting all weird and become just as normal and non-descript as the hand he was born with.
I think a gish or skillmonkey would be the best way to build him. You'd want to build him with the social skills like bluff & sense motive; he'd make a good party face.

[Arutema]

Someone who can cast ritual magic, but hold his own in melee combat? Textbook PF Magus. As the previous poster mentioned, invest heavily in social skills as well as Profession: Barrister.

If you wan to draw inspiration from the period in which his replacement hand was acting on its own, there's feats for that in Haunted Heroes Handbook.

[eggynack]

Geez, what the heck happened to the guy in the comics? I don't remember any of that from the show!
Wasn't that stuff all just from his major appearance in season 5, with some of the more mundane stuff from his appearance even closer to the end?

[FocusWolf413]

Basically? He's hard-working, ambitious, and ruthless. He's strong, smart, and very adaptable. He's highly educated, trained as a lawyer; he's also a talented musician and a capable combatant. In short, he's competent in pretty much every field. But it all comes back to hard work - in his first appearance, he's an up-and-coming lawyer from humble beginnings who has fought his way up the ranks.

Make him a Factotum and call it a day.

Huh, that's good advi-

It took you this long to respond to a thread about Devils, lawyers, the Buffyverse, and a well made evil character who fought tooth and nail for every scrap of power? Wow. I'm surprised.

Anyway, as always, you're right. I'll just go straight Factotum. Maybe I'll take a couple levels in chameleon.

Inventory: Hide armor, cowboy boots, greathammer, club, dagger, noble's outfit, masterwork tools for Profession (Lawyer) and Know (Arcane, Planes, and Religion), a rusty mechanical mount, and lots of scrolls.


Geez, what the heck happened to the guy in the comics? I don't remember any of that from the show!

I haven't read the comics? I thought he got a pretty definitive end.

[Red Fel]

Huh, that's good advi-

It took you this long to respond to a thread about Devils, lawyers, the Buffyverse, and a well made evil character who fought tooth and nail for every scrap of power? Wow. I'm surprised.

Things get pretty busy in my personal Pit. That, and nobody bothered to name me to this thread, so it went on my secondary priority list.

Yes, I keep priority lists. Don't pretend you're surprised.


Inventory: Hide armor, cowboy boots, greathammer, club, dagger, noble's outfit, masterwork tools for Profession (Lawyer) and Know (Arcane, Planes, and Religion), a rusty mechanical mount, and lots of scrolls.

Plus a few ranks in Perform (singing). Both the character and actor can sing. And, like the Profession ranks, it adds a bit of depth to the character.


I haven't read the comics? I thought he got a pretty definitive end.

So did everything else. Which is kind of the point of the comics. (More than that would be spoilers.)

[KillianHawkeye]

Geez, what the heck happened to the guy in the comics? I don't remember any of that from the show!


Wasn't that stuff all just from his major appearance in season 5, with some of the more mundane stuff from his appearance even closer to the end?

Yeah, that's basically the list of things he does leading up to and during his revenge duel with Angel. The tattoos hid him from Wolfram & Hart (and to a lesser extent, Team Angel). When Angel pulls out his katana, Lindsey transmutes his knife into a sword of his own, and they were almost even in strength and skill during the fight itself. And yeah, I recall him using a little telekinesis, basically what you might expect a rookie Jedi to be capable of.

[Seto]

Ah, I love Lindsey. One of the finer Angel characters. He seriously pushes my fanboy buttons.

But what matters about Lindsey is the personality, not the skillset. His role is that of the anti-Angel, the guy who recognizes the world as the mess it is, but decides to profit from it instead of righting the wrongs. He's extraordinarily lucid - in Season 5, he sees the heroes' situation much more clearly than they do. He's willingly chosen evil, not because it's evil, but because it makes him someone. But he still struggles to accept himself in this role, and has a problematic link to his conscience. Also, he's the competent guy who wants to be bigger. He's second best at everything, but never the perfect achiever. He has complicated relations to his ego - arrogant and self-confident, but with insecurity in spades. In the end, his character, like Angel's, is shifting between light and dark - but, whereas Angel is looking for himself "authentically", subjectively, wants to make a difference, Lindsey is looking for everyone to see him in the boss' chair, or in the brightest spotlight, even if it eventually means teaming up with his rival. (Too bad for him, this rivalry thing is one-way).

I know this analysis is unsolicited, but I'm giving it because, to me, that's the core of the character. That's what can inspire other characters (and I've played a Lindsey-inspired character too). The backstory? It exists as an afterthought to explain that personality. The skillset? It's very inessential to Lindsey and exists to put him at the right CR for Angel (so to speak). In Seasons 2 and 3, he's smart and plays guitar, but that's it, because he's backed by Wolfram and Hart and that's enough for him to be a serious opponent. In Season 5, he's picked up some mojo because he's working on his own and wouldn't be threatening without it.
If you have the skillset without the core, your character will not resemble Lindsey at all.

Mechanically, I second Factotum, as it meshes well with the "second-best at everything" side. Although, ironically, you know what's interesting? Look at how Lindsey works. Deceptions, staying hidden in the shadows, manipulations (Wolfram and Hart, Darla, mindgames with Spike). That's because he's cautious. But in the end, it always blows up in his face, because that's not who he is. His methods are at odds with his deepest desire: social recognition. The spotlight. The best Lindsey moments are not when he's winning from the shadows, they're when he's losing and just decides "oh screw this, I'm leaving W&H / attacking Angel with a big-ass sword / joining in the final battle.
That could make for an interesting conflicted Rogue. (But Factotum is probably still better)

[remetagross]

Ah, I love Lindsey. One of the finer Angel characters. He seriously pushes my fanboy buttons.

But what matters about Lindsey is the personality, not the skillset. His role is that of the anti-Angel, the guy who recognizes the world as the mess it is, but decides to profit from it instead of righting the wrongs. He's extraordinarily lucid - in Season 5, he sees the heroes' situation much more clearly than they do. He's willingly chosen evil, not because it's evil, but because it makes him someone. But he still struggles to accept himself in this role, and has a problematic link to his conscience. Also, he's the competent guy who wants to be bigger. He's second best at everything, but never the perfect achiever. He has complicated relations to his ego - arrogant and self-confident, but with insecurity in spades. In the end, his character, like Angel's, is shifting between light and dark - but, whereas Angel is looking for himself "authentically", subjectively, wants to make a difference, Lindsey is looking for everyone to see him in the boss' chair, or in the brightest spotlight, even if it eventually means teaming up with his rival. (Too bad for him, this rivalry thing is one-way).

I know this analysis is unsolicited, but I'm giving it because, to me, that's the core of the character. That's what can inspire other characters (and I've played a Lindsey-inspired character too). The backstory? It exists as an afterthought to explain that personality. The skillset? It's very inessential to Lindsey and exists to put him at the right CR for Angel (so to speak). In Seasons 2 and 3, he's smart and plays guitar, but that's it, because he's backed by Wolfram and Hart and that's enough for him to be a serious opponent. In Season 5, he's picked up some mojo because he's working on his own and wouldn't be threatening without it.
If you have the skillset without the core, your character will not resemble Lindsey at all.

Mechanically, I second Factotum, as it meshes well with the "second-best at everything" side. Although, ironically, you know what's interesting? Look at how Lindsey works. Deceptions, staying hidden in the shadows, manipulations (Wolfram and Hart, Darla, mindgames with Spike). That's because he's cautious. But in the end, it always blows up in his face, because that's not who he is. His methods are at odds with his deepest desire: social recognition. The spotlight. The best Lindsey moments are not when he's winning from the shadows, they're when he's losing and just decides "oh screw this, I'm leaving W&H / attacking Angel with a big-ass sword / joining in the final battle.
That could make for an interesting conflicted Rogue. (But Factotum is probably still better)


Huh, that's good advi-

It took you this long to respond to a thread about Devils, lawyers, the Buffyverse, and a well made evil character who fought tooth and nail for every scrap of power? Wow. I'm surprised.

:tongue:

Though I'm less versed in Lindsey knowledge than some of you here, I was struck by the Factotum idea as a particularly fitting "self-made man" character concept too. The class which adds Int to AC, among others (this dude DOES have a high Int in the show, which explains how he can dodge the blows of Angel so easily in their swordfight I guess :smallbiggrin:), and comes to its ends through its will and its wits, seems very appropriate for him. The ability of Factotums to eventually turn undeads and cast Planar Ally spells would fit the bill perfectly, what with Wolfram & Hart consorting with demons and vampires.

And man, this (sledge)hammer ! A Lindsey character MUST wield a hammer, for sure! Make it a Greathorn Minotaur (Greathorn Ram?) Greathammer while you're at it! Better use a chained gauntlet to avoid getting disarmed though ;)

[Red Fel]

Better use a chained gauntlet to avoid getting disarmed though ;)

Oh, a locking gauntlet is definitely necessary. Keeps your hand from acting up.

http://i.imgur.com/YT8bC.jpg

[FocusWolf413]

Ah, I love Lindsey. One of the finer Angel characters. He seriously pushes my fanboy buttons.

But what matters about Lindsey is the personality, not the skillset. His role is that of the anti-Angel, the guy who recognizes the world as the mess it is, but decides to profit from it instead of righting the wrongs. He's extraordinarily lucid - in Season 5, he sees the heroes' situation much more clearly than they do. He's willingly chosen evil, not because it's evil, but because it makes him someone. But he still struggles to accept himself in this role, and has a problematic link to his conscience. Also, he's the competent guy who wants to be bigger. He's second best at everything, but never the perfect achiever. He has complicated relations to his ego - arrogant and self-confident, but with insecurity in spades. In the end, his character, like Angel's, is shifting between light and dark - but, whereas Angel is looking for himself "authentically", subjectively, wants to make a difference, Lindsey is looking for everyone to see him in the boss' chair, or in the brightest spotlight, even if it eventually means teaming up with his rival. (Too bad for him, this rivalry thing is one-way).

I know this analysis is unsolicited, but I'm giving it because, to me, that's the core of the character. That's what can inspire other characters (and I've played a Lindsey-inspired character too). The backstory? It exists as an afterthought to explain that personality. The skillset? It's very inessential to Lindsey and exists to put him at the right CR for Angel (so to speak). In Seasons 2 and 3, he's smart and plays guitar, but that's it, because he's backed by Wolfram and Hart and that's enough for him to be a serious opponent. In Season 5, he's picked up some mojo because he's working on his own and wouldn't be threatening without it.
If you have the skillset without the core, your character will not resemble Lindsey at all.

Mechanically, I second Factotum, as it meshes well with the "second-best at everything" side. Although, ironically, you know what's interesting? Look at how Lindsey works. Deceptions, staying hidden in the shadows, manipulations (Wolfram and Hart, Darla, mindgames with Spike). That's because he's cautious. But in the end, it always blows up in his face, because that's not who he is. His methods are at odds with his deepest desire: social recognition. The spotlight. The best Lindsey moments are not when he's winning from the shadows, they're when he's losing and just decides "oh screw this, I'm leaving W&H / attacking Angel with a big-ass sword / joining in the final battle.
That could make for an interesting conflicted Rogue. (But Factotum is probably still better)

That's a really good analysis of Lindsey. I appreciate it. Wouldn't want to miss the forest for the trees.


Oh, a locking gauntlet is definitely necessary. Keeps your hand from acting up.

http://i.imgur.com/YT8bC.jpg

Did you make that?

[Red Fel]

Did you make that?

Nope. Went hunting for it.

Actually, I was hoping to find it as a gif. Alas.

[FocusWolf413]

Nope. Went hunting for it.

Actually, I was hoping to find it as a gif. Alas.

Reverse image search: (https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZivcLOTnSkimJ68i156cO1l_145BL8O tAItxpbrdcUVmoeAA_1Yvxvut7frPXW6KNcNQAAg5jUCeTAIgM PDQhBqWDRC9B3SOnykxgPip0sPIYLh-jBgGkqZB2jk4tB4UZyzvTavWJqoRgE00aBxRDb5CWRAEr-2Or2adViMIPL-0V2f4M1ql-3IX3eEIEBIe2yFCg2t5yuCWFFqqqdUK2B6byglKbiWzvmClX9N HXWThJel5T9vEQebUxhz2WEBczq3ocyJiaGMDohsFT6GlgmxCY s4z_1kXv8WphJ-aVdgovMIK-WckALPI9326PHtwYjy_1SNjd96CM0vwxWurmJaEdhvgm3uEOxQ PefYzfXsH3KRUzu09aFltBlPbmyOA5Q2Yw8KeqsvGLY8Q5sxIc YMwbGaWfI7ggcTYr0fKlpOXIbUxwWEMbIxNBs0YTBlbeJOrCjN 3emo_12WdxzicW1TAjeYcfjLSDJ2l7NXpZR-Em7o467kttzOkkaKJ4Ep-HLI2SOO9jb1D1PNyRAIU_1HG5O5qw1L-aF0U--b-HQwCtSLZFhw0CsobdMnwTekg3K4k1X_1NGT4AGAsVXNZRexFt1 fZEd_13gVgFRthQdRJPl9wZcwUhSd5sr8CqDw5_1h3B-RW_16CqNwcHCb_1GInsPSZA5Fyt5tffj8MfmQpiA8LcJYZ62MH znk-nZYJYhG4kF5ni2SWWVmRENsAxYDKxw81zzouNNp4Nd5v3dBA3F L3BcEGI9Jl5XY5nvt_1P4jMhTo9jPso7rAGQoXfUAwUYmbnlbh sMmGLBPSLljVMVwdOeS9nSfs8r4VJDf9cJFDGZcIZwyLJqvv3q goahurX4OZSbbyPNBRwoepIOwbRznPMcoJ_1GigOyJz_1uOFe-LvSSPmEoAVBKpODGew6bC2T6Wx_1NFltkH80yMQ9So21TTm3Gx Kkbvvio98pPgZ28b9j-7jd94E5cIVrMGcbRHbEmCKsgto1I5Xfu7IoXGFS0FKzGdypcsS P5A0KdKrDowep22bmLpQV2eiwwnZUTHc1wCxOYlSK1w25cakNQ sXX0dX0BvZr88AZ85HzfxqfIBW9_1DOeNZXU46yZKRIxhejhsL joXyQeAWBdRlwk3A2WhCG09lZzA71pS-yIZ8m3w0Gt6UBFQ0gNYH8NHQ_197WuTLTemias38sox7NXujKQ YoCMUH0ItoYk3GmC8U6lVs9ZeTcHTwPHLvgw3uI5s6fOI_14jl JLjZnRwWLbKSyp4bK0dMTIBR3U6V_1vylfbt-2b6lLwVUoKrCZImUjBRWdT-fvBnys7FF_1TsqXZzDTF7xqxK_1-i797UobQbJJJFXjJPpBr_1T4iP0K5XKcYtUfp8TU6EVg5QET-BJeYhnIJHKW2bYgL3Uo6Fflq2uBSXBp0hcRp7inzKwU6e1Va95 Oc92n2Kkt8cVhdFGz06BfFhG1Ilt4zPB6oGaAjyEuHXCHjWycc wgxJK5Xc-D1octxdYhApFkZVOwC8vSAvtPemtFibieYbI2oW266Xk7kJluz 2SSrfSmNzZ9v1BLoDPEsq8yu_1T7FDrWWbLIA9KcY1pENz-96Dq-HJMX9qnoHfZ-5V-YX2MRhiqB5hfUWU7cm1_1n2t9hE65pcQldq6A1Gg&hl=en)



Best guess for this image: Black People Stole My Car


I don't even want to know how you found this.