How to defend against illusions at low levels?

[ayvango]

What spells or items could help to reveal illusions for low level characters? High level characters could employ true seeing in some form. What can a third level character do with illusions? You could counter invisibility with see invisibility. What is the counter to mirror image?

[Crake]

What spells or items could help to reveal illusions for low level characters? High level characters could employ true seeing in some form. What can a third level character do with illusions? You could counter invisibility with see invisibility. What is the counter to mirror image?

Some kind of extrasensory perpection would be necessary, although you could just get a scout's headband. It's a relatively cheap way to access true seeing for 1 minute per day, which is generally all you will need at early levels. It can alternatively give you 10 minutes of see invisibility and 1 hour of darkvision, or 3 hours of darkvision each day. I think it's something like 3,400gp.

Edit: But alternatively, you could just use some cheap method to eliminate the images, Magic missile at level 3 would eliminate 2 images, or at least 1 image if it hit with the other.

[Kelb_Panthera]

For mirror image, specifically, you can defeat it easily enough by closing your eyes and making a DC 20 listen check. The spell specifies that it doesn't effecft people that can't see it and the listen check allows you to pinpoint the caster. It's a fairly tough check for a couple levels but it's an option. More directly, you can just pop the images with magic missile, scorching ray, or some other spell that lets you roll attacks against multiple targets.

Most illusions have built-in failure conditions or else are simple figments. Countering figments is a matter of observation mostly. Say there's an illusory wall covering an alcove with a door to a hidden room; if you've been in each of the surrounding rooms the void in the building's layout is a tip-off, though if you're already actively searching the room for hidden doors you'd get a will save anyway.

Beyond keeping careful track of your surroundings, there's good old-fashioned probing. There's a reason an 11ft pole is standard adventuring gear. Just randomly poke stuff from time to time. Be warned that this method sometimes has unforseen consequences.

Finally, there's extraordinary senses. The touchsight psionic power is -amazing- for this since figments have no tactile component. Tremorsense, blindsense, and mindsight are good too, though each has its flaws. Other peculiar, less common senses can also get by illusions but it necessarily varies with the spell and sense in question.

[Inevitability]

Be a Beguiler (the race) or take one as your improved familiar/cohort?

Also, a bag of flour tends to be effective against most illusions.

[ayvango]

For mirror image, specifically, you can defeat it easily enough by closing your eyes and making a DC 20 listen check
Listen is no good against mirror images, because its descriptions states clearly:


When you and the mirror image separate, observers can't use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image.

[Darrin]

Listen is no good against mirror images, because its descriptions states clearly:

Second to the last sentence in the spell description:



If you are invisible or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect.

(emphasis added)

If you shut your eyes, then the "can't use vision or hearing" restriction is no longer in effect, and you can make a Listen check as normal.

Flour pouches are a great low-price item (1 CP, Dungeonscape), not only as a splash weapon, but if you remember which squares the flour pouch splashed into, you can ask the DM later if the flour on the ground is being disturbed by anything. Torch bug paste (25 GP, Complete Scoundrel) is a fantastic counter to anything granting concealment, including invisibility (but not oddly enough darkness spells).

For 100 GP, you can pick up a Chaos Flask (Planar Handbook). Make a DC 13 Wisdom check and you can turn the contents of the flask into flux slime (Epic Level Handbook), which radiates a 10' anti-magic field. That should ixnay any nearby illusions. (Be careful, though... it will explode if exposed to sunlight, and may cause Con damage or permanent mutations).

Also... wand of detect magic is only 375 GP. Illusions still have magical auras.

[Stealth Marmot]

Flour.

Think I'm kidding? Throw a bunch of flour in the air and A. You'll see the invisible character moving the flour dust in the air around and B. You'll see his footprints in the dust on the ground.

Edit: Darrin beat me to it.

[Crake]

Second to the last sentence in the spell description:


(emphasis added)

If you shut your eyes, then the "can't use vision or hearing" restriction is no longer in effect, and you can make a Listen check as normal.


I think the point is each image makes a sound. And since the images can be up to 5 feet apart from one another, they could easily move into their own squares, which means listen may still leave you attacking an image, but with a 50/50 miss chance on top.

[Darrin]

I think the point is each image makes a sound. And since the images can be up to 5 feet apart from one another, they could easily move into their own squares, which means listen may still leave you attacking an image, but with a 50/50 miss chance on top.

Well, if you close your eyes, the images no longer make any sound.

[Barstro]

RAW, it appears that the "observers can't use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image" is only "When you and the mirror image separate". The spell later states that closing your eyes negates the effect.

As foolish as I think it is, a Listen check seems to work. I question the "flour trick", since I think an illusion would adjust accordingly. After all, the illusions do whatever the caster does (drink potion, presumably throw potion on the ground).

Does an Area of Effect spell get rid of them all? I'm really only familiar with Pathfinder's version.

As an aside, I think Pathfinder had this spell make a lot more sense.

[Stealth Marmot]

Well, if you close your eyes, the images no longer make any sound.

...what.

I can't even...

[Eldariel]

Attacking blind does have a number of drawbacks though; even if you know the enemy's location, you still have 50% miss chance and can't take AoOs and are particularly vulnerable to any enemies that might attack you at that point. Certainly though, by RAW you can just attack the square the enemy is in and be unaffected.

[Darrin]

...what.

I can't even...

With apologies to Water_Bear, welcome to RAW: 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.

(110% is a low estimate.)

[Telok]

In addition to touch and physical interaction the Scent special quality is astonishingly good against many illusions.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Attacking blind does have a number of drawbacks though; even if you know the enemy's location, you still have 50% miss chance and can't take AoOs and are particularly vulnerable to any enemies that might attack you at that point. Certainly though, by RAW you can just attack the square the enemy is in and be unaffected.

That's easy enough. Close eyes, pinpoint target, open eyes. The catch is that closing your eyes is a potential ready trigger for the enemy.

Of course, you can always skip the whole thing and just blast the lot of them with AoE's.

[Jack_Simth]

What spells or items could help to reveal illusions for low level characters? High level characters could employ true seeing in some form. What can a third level character do with illusions? You could counter invisibility with see invisibility. What is the counter to mirror image?

For mirror image, specifically... most of it's already been covered. I started to say that the bag of flour won't help because the images react appropriately to area effects, but when I double-checked the wording, flour is good to go because they only react to area spells, and flour isn't a spell (at least, not in this context).

For out of combat, detect magic is your friend. Generally speaking, knowing that an illusion is in a particular place is sufficient for you to probe and break it via thrown rocks or poked sticks. Detect Magic is duration Concentration, up to one minute/level... and Complete Mage has the Magic Sensitive reserve feat to let a Wizard do it all day just by keeping a divination spell unused.

[Darrin]

That's easy enough. Close eyes, pinpoint target, open eyes.

Just to be pedantic, I'd say that opening your eyes means the "can't use vision or hearing" (including the results of a Listen check) goes back into effect. You want to use the Listen check, then you've still got to attack blind.



Of course, you can always skip the whole thing and just blast the lot of them with AoE's.

AoE's don't get rid of the images. Magic missile is the typical go-to for getting rid of images. If you're a bard or banned evocation, ice darts (Frostburn) will also work. If you're a treehugger/healbot, try lava missile (Serpent Kingdoms).

An unseen servant dropping caltrops might work... the caltrops have to hit, but they attack every round. Hmmm. Jumping Caltrops (250 GP, MIC) might auto-detect the spellcaster's square. They automatically move toward the nearest enemy, and they have no sensory abilities... hrrmmm. I'm not sure how they would react to a figment.

Message Arrow (400 GP, Ghostwalk Web Enhancement) will land at the feet of the actual target. And it's an evocation effect, so it ignores illusions. The helping hand spell (why is this 3rd level?) would work the same way, although the hand beckons to the target from 10' away, so you'd have to adjust for that.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Just to be pedantic, I'd say that opening your eyes means the "can't use vision or hearing" (including the results of a Listen check) goes back into effect. You want to use the Listen check, then you've still got to attack blind.

For that to be true, the magic would have to force the opponent to forget which square he heard the real one in while his eyes were closed.

Even then, 50% chance to hit is better than 12.5% chance to pick the right one and can be boosted to 75% with blind-fight.


AoE's don't get rid of the images. Magic missile is the typical go-to for getting rid of images. If you're a bard or banned evocation, ice darts (Frostburn) will also work. If you're a treehugger/healbot, try lava missile (Serpent Kingdoms).

An unseen servant dropping caltrops might work... the caltrops have to hit, but they attack every round. Hmmm. Jumping Caltrops (250 GP, MIC) might auto-detect the spellcaster's square. They automatically move toward the nearest enemy, and they have no sensory abilities... hrrmmm. I'm not sure how they would react to a figment.

Message Arrow (400 GP, Ghostwalk Web Enhancement) will land at the feet of the actual target. And it's an evocation effect, so it ignores illusions. The helping hand spell (why is this 3rd level?) would work the same way, although the hand beckons to the target from 10' away, so you'd have to adjust for that.

You missunderstand. I'm not suggesting AoE's to get rid of the images, I'm suggesting them to make the images irrelevant. If you blast all of the targets, real and illusory, you still hit the target you want.

[Eldariel]

For that to be true, the magic would have to force the opponent to forget which square he heard the real one in while his eyes were closed.

The mechanics of Mirror Image don't give a rat's ass about the square. It just says attacks against you hit a target at random. Period. Doesn't matter whether you have scent or whatever. You can ignore the miss effect if by being blind, but that only works while you're blind. Well, that's the RAW anyways. Since they are stated to be auditory too, I'd rule that closing your eyes does nothing except bestow you with the 50% miss chance.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The mechanics of Mirror Image don't give a rat's ass about the square. It just says attacks against you hit a target at random. Period. Doesn't matter whether you have scent or whatever. You can ignore the miss effect if by being blind, but that only works while you're blind. Well, that's the RAW anyways. Since they are stated to be auditory too, I'd rule that closing your eyes does nothing except bestow you with the 50% miss chance.

The PF version is drastically different from the 3.5 version. In the latter, each image occupies a separate square from the caster and each of the other images and an attacker has to guess which one to attack. They can pass through one another to shuffle.

[Duke of Urrel]

The description of the Mirror Image spell is vague about two things.

1. The description of the Mirror Image spell is vague about the exact location of any illusory duplicate of the spellcaster.

In contrast, I believe the location of the spellcaster stays the same for as long as the spellcaster does not move. So it should be possible for an observer with the Scent ability or olfactory Blindsense to pinpoint the location of the spellcaster, that is, to determine exactly which game square (or squares) the spellcaster occupies.

However, it is unclear whether the illusory duplicates of the spellcaster occupy the same game square as the spellcaster or an adjacent or tangent square. If you use an extraordinary sense of smell to pinpoint the location of a real creature that shares the same space with one or more illusory creatures, all of which are visible, can you tell which creature has the smell and which doesn't? This is unclear, and it may be intentionally unclear.

Olfactory Blindsight, in contrast to the Scent ability or olfactory Blindsense, functions as well as sight, so perhaps a creature that relies on olfactory Blindsight has no problem with the Mirror Image spell, provided that the illusory duplicates have no odor. However...

2. The description of the Mirror Image spell is vague about whether the illusory duplicates have odors.

On the one hand, "observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image." This implies (I think) that the illusory duplicates make noise,* but it leaves open the possibility that they are odorless, so that observers with olfactory Blindsight (at least) may be able to use their sense of smell to tell the spellcaster apart from an illusory image. On the other hand, "[e]nemies attempting to attack you or cast spells at you must select from among indistinguishable targets (emphasis mine)." Does "indistinguishable" mean that all the targets have the same smell? The text doesn't say.

So I'm not sure whether or not the use of an extraordinary sense of smell defeats the Mirror Image spell.

***

I am more confident that dusting with flour should work. Dusting a creature with flour is probably an area attack (assuming that this action is like tossing a handful of Dust of Appearance, which "coats objects within a 10-foot radius, making them visible even if they are invisible [and] negates the effects of blur and displacement") but not, as Jack_Simth observed, an area spell, so that illusory duplicates should not be able to "seem to react normally" by coating themselves with illusory flour. Moreover, it is a safe assumption that figments are insubstantial, so that flour should pass right through them while sticking to the real spellcaster.

The insubstantiality of the illusory duplicates probably also enables a creature to ignore them if it uses sonic Blindsight, such as the sonar of a porpoise.

__________________________
*Conversely, two other sentences imply that the illusory duplicates are purely visual: "An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If you are invisible or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect." I resolve this conflict by assuming that seeing the illusory duplicates triggers every other illusory attribute they have, so that you see them, you also hear them and perhaps smell them as well, but if you don't see them, they are soundless and odorless as well.