Help Making Pregen Characters for Newbies

[ArcanistSupreme]

I'm running a Pathfinder one-shot for a couple of months for five players. A couple are d20 veterans, and the other three are not. My goal is to have ten or so pregenerated characters on hand alongside a handout of all relevant rules for each character (trip rules for a trip character, area of effect for a blaster, etc.). I plan to hide a lot of details under the hood for this first run (hiding stats and just having things like bull's strength affect attack and damage directly), but I'm still getting stuck creating a good blend of slightly complex for my old hands and simple but fun for my newbies.

The rules:
Pathfinder (anything on the PFSRD and Spheres of Power)
Level 3 start to level 6 finish

My thoughts are a couple of Path of War builds and a sorcerer or two with note cards for maneuvers or spells. I also have a halfling cavalier/ubercharger build that I like. Keeping in mind that the newbies have very little interest in diving deeply into the rules of the game and are extremely unlikely to invest time outside of the day of, what are your ideas? Where have you had success with newbies in the past?

[Geddy2112]

A few tips
1. Stay away from any kind of prepared caster(except maybe ranger or paladin or something). Select the spells for each caster and have the basics of each ready to roll.
2. Encourage the newbies to pick a non caster.
3. Try to avoid multiples of any class. If you want to have multiple sorcerers, make one a blaster and one a strict support. Give them different skills and stats too. Also try to have classes based on different abilities and skills so each player can shine at least some of the time.
4. Avoid deity or alignment based classes that can fall or lose powers if they go off the reservation.

Here is a list of concepts I would have available:
-The BSF. Fighter with 2 handed weapon, power attack, etc.
-TWF rogue. Sneaky stabby skillmonkey
-Archery dude. Fighter/ranger/slayer with a bow.
-Blastercaster sorcerer
-mounted knight. Hafling ubercharger works here
-Buff/support sorcerer
-Melee themed oracle
-Unarmed melee.
-Buff/support bard
-Maneuver specialist/BFC.

[Kallimakus]

Are you looking for just ideas, or level 3 builds (with some personality/character or without), or a sample build from level 3-6?

I have no experience playing with strictly pre-generated characters, but I think that going with Spheres of Power over normal casting will make casters more simple and approachable. Do you have any inkling as to what sort of characters they might be interested in, in terms of a role, like a spellcaster or combatant or a healer?

And some good ideas came while I was typing this one.

[exelsisxax]

The total newbies should probably stick to noncasters or spherecasters, as others have said. Vancian mechanics are a TTRPG thing that nobody otherwise knows, but compare spell points to mana and everybody understands.

PoW is going to be good for the veterans... or card game players, if it is explained in familiar terms. maneuvers known = deck, readied = hand, expended = graveyard, recovering brings some from graveyard to hand, readying puts everything in your deck then you get a new hand.

But if you want something more specific, you should really get information from your players. If none of them want to be big sword guy, but half the pregens are, you'll have a problem. Try to figure out what role archetypes they'll want.

[ArcanistSupreme]

A few tips [and general good advice]
I had pretty much the exact same thoughts. I don't want any toes stepped on in terms of niche filling, but the same chassis can often look completely different in the end.

Are you looking for just ideas, or level 3 builds (with some personality/character or without), or a sample build from level 3-6?

I have no experience playing with strictly pre-generated characters, but I think that going with Spheres of Power over normal casting will make casters more simple and approachable. Do you have any inkling as to what sort of characters they might be interested in, in terms of a role, like a spellcaster or combatant or a healer?

And some good ideas came while I was typing this one.
I've got the personality/characterization down, it's mostly the builds that I want help with. What seems obvious or intuitive to me might not to someone who didn't invest literally hundreds if not thousands of hours in this since high school. A build or build stub from 3-6 would be super helpful.

And I don't know why that didn't occur to me earlier, but I did ask the newbies what they wanted today. One just wants to be a girl with an obnoxiously large hammer. She (the player) is also the most gamer-y and likely to pick up on slightly more complex mechanics. I think a re-fluffed greatclub and a warlord with primal fury maneuvers will be perfect. Or an armorist from SoP. Decisions, decisions.

The second one wants to be a magic user with a wolf. I tentatively think that a sphere druid could work here, but I don't want to overwhelm her with too many choices. I'll simplify the wolf to her telling it to attack and stuff and me moving it around. The part I'm in a pickle about is talent selection. I think that BFC might not be something that she quite gets, so maybe just Destruction stuff with a splash of Alteration for flavor/pet buffing? I'm open to suggestions here.

The third is the tricky one. She's tentatively agreed to play, and she's worried about "not being good at it". I'm going to do my best to make her feel comfortable with out of game stuff by making the day more about hanging out with friends than anything, but I also want to help draw her in and make her feel like a meaningful contributor in game. Her fiance said something like a bard or archer type would suit her, but I think that with a bard it's too easy to just sing in combat and be a passive player. It also has a huge impact on the numbers, but it's not very flashy or obvious if you don't understand the math. I know that a bard archer is a thing, but I'm thinking that a fighter archer with the martial training feat for something to do other than "shoot it more" would be good. Throw in a sprinkle of plot hooks involving the character's sister and I feel like I can give her a chance to shine and help her feel involved. Thoughts?

That just leaves the two veterans. They opted to be surprised the day of. I have builds for the ubercharger, a brawler grappler, and an incanter focused exclusively on the Warp sphere. Any fun, off-the-wall suggestions would be more than welcome here. They've played the standard fantasy fare characters; so the less traditional the better here!

The total newbies should probably stick to noncasters or spherecasters, as others have said. Vancian mechanics are a TTRPG thing that nobody otherwise knows, but compare spell points to mana and everybody understands.

PoW is going to be good for the veterans... or card game players, if it is explained in familiar terms. maneuvers known = deck, readied = hand, expended = graveyard, recovering brings some from graveyard to hand, readying puts everything in your deck then you get a new hand.

But if you want something more specific, you should really get information from your players. If none of them want to be big sword guy, but half the pregens are, you'll have a problem. Try to figure out what role archetypes they'll want.
The whole "asking my players" thing was such an obvious answer, I can't believe I didn't think of it earlier. Silly me.

[Kallimakus]

-snip-

And I don't know why that didn't occur to me earlier, but I did ask the newbies what they wanted today. One just wants to be a girl with an obnoxiously large hammer. She (the player) is also the most gamer-y and likely to pick up on slightly more complex mechanics. I think a re-fluffed greatclub and a warlord with primal fury maneuvers will be perfect. Or an armorist from SoP. Decisions, decisions.
I'm afraid I have little knowledge of Path of War.


The second one wants to be a magic user with a wolf. I tentatively think that a sphere druid could work here, but I don't want to overwhelm her with too many choices. I'll simplify the wolf to her telling it to attack and stuff and me moving it around. The part I'm in a pickle about is talent selection. I think that BFC might not be something that she quite gets, so maybe just Destruction stuff with a splash of Alteration for flavor/pet buffing? I'm open to suggestions here.
I think a Spheres Druid would work well. I suggest Enhancement and/or protection.
If wanted, Sphere-specific drawbacks like Limited Protection (lose Barrier, pick up Armored magic for the companion (and maybe themselves too?))
From Enhancement, there are obvious choices like Natural enhancement and Physical Enhancement.
Assuming animal companion, you start with 5 talents at level 3, and finish with 8
Suggestion would be something like this: (Gets min-max-y here)
Nature Druid
Casting Tradition: Verbal Casting, Somatic Casting, (Prepared Caster)
Nature Sphere (1 Talent): Plant package (Entangle, Growth, Pummel)
Enhancement Sphere (1 Talent): Natural Enhancement, Physical Enhancement, Mass Enhancement(Drawbacks: Bodily Enhancement, Obvious Enhancement, Conscious-linked Enhancement)
Protection Sphere (1 Talent): Armored magic (Drawback: Limited protection)
Destruction Sphere: (2 Talents): Bramble Blast, Explosive orb

Other ideas: Enhancing Admixture Feat and following talents: Admixture, Explosive Orb, Bramble blast, Mass Enhancement, Cripple make for a nasty-ish BFC spell/debuff. One could start with that and delay the other stuff, or build for it.
Spheres druid starts getting free Alterations at level 4, so that's another avenue to develop. Dual Enhancement gets some mileage out of Natural/Physical Enhancement.


-The third is the tricky one. She's tentatively agreed to play, and she's worried about "not being good at it". I'm going to do my best to make her feel comfortable with out of game stuff by making the day more about hanging out with friends than anything, but I also want to help draw her in and make her feel like a meaningful contributor in game. Her fiance said something like a bard or archer type would suit her, but I think that with a bard it's too easy to just sing in combat and be a passive player. It also has a huge impact on the numbers, but it's not very flashy or obvious if you don't understand the math. I know that a bard archer is a thing, but I'm thinking that a fighter archer with the martial training feat for something to do other than "shoot it more" would be good. Throw in a sprinkle of plot hooks involving the character's sister and I feel like I can give her a chance to shine and help her feel involved. Thoughts?

Here, I've even got a suggested build.
Human Slayer (Vanguard)
Build: Slayer 6
Str 14 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 13 Wis 12 Cha 8

Idea: Essentially, this is a Slayer imitating a Ranger imitating a Fighter.
Level breakdown:
1: Vanguard’s Initiative (+1), Studied Target +1. Deadly Aim, Point-Blank Shot
2: Tactician (4 rounds), Coordinated Shot Teamwork Feat
3: Sneak Attack 1d6, Extra Slayer Talent: Precise Shot Feat
4: Vanguard’s Bond, +1 Int., Vanguard’s Initiative +2
5: 2nd Studied Target (+2), Feat could be anything, such as Power Attack, Accomplished Sneak attacker, Focused Shot.
6: Sneak Attack 2d6, Vanguard’s Initiative +3, Ranger Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot. Could spring for Manyshot if wanted

So what it can do is get bonuses against a single target at a time. At level 4, the bonus can be shared with allies in 30ft. Not relying on Full attacks too much means that mobility and/or sniping are options, and between the Precise Shots, can support melee combat without penalty at the end.
For Diplomacy, Student of Philosophy keys some of it to Int instead.

Notes and other options: Point-blank shot is an artefact, setup for Focused Shot option at level 5, and isn’t otherwise needed. Teamwork Feat could also be easily switched. I know nothing of Path of War, but a quick look (and a bit of pre-game retraining) could net Martial Training I at 3rd level and II at 5th. Feats would look like this: Start with Deadly Aim, Teamwork Feat, Martial Training I, Precise Shot (retrained). Then proceed as above.

One could obviously go for Ranger (like Hooded Champion, with Skirmisher if wanted) to make a Cha-based ranger, or a Fighter, but I like my version. The key here is to snatch the good archery feats without prerequisites.

[exelsisxax]

#1 needs to be a DSP half-giant. They can effectively wield oversized weapons. A warlord works, as well as primal disciple(initiator barbarian). Or just a bloodrager or UCbarb. If using warlord, maximum primal fury, with anything left over in golden lion or scarlet throne.

Kallimakus has #2 down.

#3: i think you should actually buck those expectations, and give her a build that is manditorily active. If a bard, use the Rubato initiating archetype and spec out everything for pure active play. Use only elemental flux and golden lion maneuvers that are immediately powerful. It'll basically force her to take an active role, and if you pack enough reposition and attack granting GL maneuvers, the party will thank her profusely for it.

It's also more simple than spells tracking only 3 maneuvers readied. Just use a d12 for tempo and advise her to use as many maneuvers as possible in every round, because they are easily recovered with tempo during combat.

[Barstro]

The total newbies should probably stick to noncasters or spherecasters, as others have said. Vancian mechanics are a TTRPG thing that nobody otherwise knows, but compare spell points to mana and everybody understands.

I disagree. Being "forced" to play mundane while the pros get to be casters can be a little... prejudiced(?). Given their newness, the roleplaying part will probably be the difficult aspect (and they will allow the new players to do most of that) and the combat part for a mundane is usually rather boring.

Vancian is easier to pick up than keeping track of mana. It's annoying and illogical, but still easier to understand "you can cast these three spells once per day". The problem with casters is just how overwhelming the options are. I suggest making casters with very specific spells known. In the case of Clerics, I'd only allow a few spells that you select.

I think the most important thing, given the player pool you seem to have, is to tailor the first few encounters (and some out of combat stuff) to show how useful the newbie's characters are. I'd even go so far as to secretly request the seasoned players to play sub-optimally at first so the new players can shine.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Druid Build

I think that these are great suggestions under other circumstances, but I don't think that this player understands the power of buffing/debuffing/BFC based on other games that I've played with her. I think that she's likely to gravitate toward whomping people with trees over the entangle effect, even though the latter is often more powerful. So rather than presenting her with a bunch of options I don't think she'll use, I'd rather opt for more blasty stuff for her to play with. I'm also considering an Incantor with the Nature sphere focus for the wolf and then building on that chassis instead. Thoughts?



Here, I've even got a suggested build.
Human Slayer (Vanguard)


This is great! I'll probably be using this exactly as is


#1 needs to be a DSP half-giant. They can effectively wield oversized weapons. A warlord works, as well as primal disciple(initiator barbarian). Or just a bloodrager or UCbarb. If using warlord, maximum primal fury, with anything left over in golden lion or scarlet throne.

Why didn't I think of half giant?! I love it. Now I'm also considering a psychic warrior for expansion so the hammer can be EVEN BIGGER. What are your thoughts on the comparison to a UCbarb? Is psychic warrior too complicated? Of the three, she is the most likely to get it, but is it too much over the simplicity of "I rage and hit it!"?



#3: i think you should actually buck those expectations, and give her a build that is manditorily active. If a bard, use the Rubato initiating archetype and spec out everything for pure active play. Use only elemental flux and golden lion maneuvers that are immediately powerful. It'll basically force her to take an active role, and if you pack enough reposition and attack granting GL maneuvers, the party will thank her profusely for it.

It's also more simple than spells tracking only 3 maneuvers readied. Just use a d12 for tempo and advise her to use as many maneuvers as possible in every round, because they are easily recovered with tempo during combat.

I'll look at it, but I'm concerned with overwhelming the new players. The reposition movements aren't always obvious, and could seriously bog the game down (or maybe I'm just used to other players taking *forever* to decide movement). It might be great for one of the two vets, though.


I disagree. Being "forced" to play mundane while the pros get to be casters can be a little... prejudiced(?). Given their newness, the roleplaying part will probably be the difficult aspect (and they will allow the new players to do most of that) and the combat part for a mundane is usually rather boring.

Vancian is easier to pick up than keeping track of mana. It's annoying and illogical, but still easier to understand "you can cast these three spells once per day". The problem with casters is just how overwhelming the options are. I suggest making casters with very specific spells known. In the case of Clerics, I'd only allow a few spells that you select.

I think the most important thing, given the player pool you seem to have, is to tailor the first few encounters (and some out of combat stuff) to show how useful the newbie's characters are. I'd even go so far as to secretly request the seasoned players to play sub-optimally at first so the new players can shine.

That's why my first thought was sorcerers! Here are spells on notecards, you can cast this stack a total of this many times and this stack a total of this many times. Bah-dah-bing, bah-dah-boom. It's a dumb system, but very easy to explain.

I might try to convince the veterans to play support/BFC/debuff casters and really give the newbies a chance to shine. They'll get to land the killing shots, but the veterans will understand how much they are offering to the fight. Everybody gets to play to his or her full potential, which feels more relaxing for the group dynamic.

This has all got me wondering how the players will react to the adventure itself.

The way I have it set up now is as follows:
PCs arrive on island with instructions to take down big bad threatening to blow up volcano on said island. Encounter #1 vs minions trying to take McGuffin from island village. Standard combat. PCs take boat down river toward bad guy hideout on shore. Encounter #2 vs. river minions trying to stop them. Boats on fire, people swinging in on vines, maybe crocodiles, and definitely a waterfall. Encounter #4, infiltrate hideout. Main entrance will be on shore for a beach fight with cliffs, magma vents, and sand for fun terrain. Final encounter inside volcano vs. boss for climactic battle and dramatic escape just before lava ruins everything. The End.

It's very kick in the door and straightforward. I am wondering if I'm underestimating out-of-game time here (I'm hoping for 5-6 hours with a lunch break in there). I'm also concerned that it's too straightforward. Any ideas to provide a little bit of chance to explore and maybe get some skill checks in without allowing wiggle room to end up off the rails?