Custom system part 1: Stats

[LVOD]

What are some systems that handle stats really well? Specifically i mean having a simple straightforward system for describing a characters core stats?

It seems like the two main categories are: a few stats with more specific 'skills' that key off them (D&D), or a larger number of things that are blended between the two (call of cthulhu traits).

What systems do you think do the best job describing characters' statistics without too much bloat?

[Thrudd]

What are some systems that handle stats really well? Specifically i mean having a simple straightforward system for describing a characters core stats?

It seems like the two main categories are: a few stats with more specific 'skills' that key off them (D&D), or a larger number of things that are blended between the two (call of cthulhu traits).

What systems do you think do the best job describing characters' statistics without too much bloat?

What are you looking for, exactly? Many systems use very similar methods of a short list of general attributes which affect or define the abilities used in play. What do you mean by "bloat"?

In the D6 system, there are six main attributes, and under each attribute a series of skills that can be improved over the base value.

"Mazes and Minotaurs" has a system where each attribute awards a bonus or penalty similar to D&D. Abilities like combat, spells and saving throws are derived by combining the bonuses from different abilities (unlike D&D, where just one stat defines combat ability).

[JeenLeen]

I think another important aspect is what aspects of the character matter for a given game. In some games, certain skills/stats/attributes/whatever may matter a lot, while in others they don't.
Without more context, it's hard to really answer your question.

I think D&D 5e does a good job by having 6 core stats with a relatively small number of skills. The crunch is minimal to figure out what to add to your d20 roll. I definitely prefer it over 3.5 and Pathfinder, where the number of skills seems too high (although Pathfinder consolidated some skills).

I like the idea behind d10 games like World of Darkness and Exalted with their attributes + skills making up a dice pool, BUT I think it's too easy to get 'bloat' in the form of skills overlapping with each other or having so many that it's hard to have a character who just doesn't stink at too much. Note that in these d10 systems a Melee weapon skill or Firearms/Archery skill is another skill, like Medicine is. Usually you roll a dice pool of an stat (often Dexterity) + the relevant skill (say, Melee), and count successes (high rolls) instead of adding modifiers to a single die.

I've read a little bit of Unisystem, and it might have a good system, but I never really understood it well enough to get it.

[Friv]

What are some systems that handle stats really well? Specifically i mean having a simple straightforward system for describing a characters core stats?

It seems like the two main categories are: a few stats with more specific 'skills' that key off them (D&D), or a larger number of things that are blended between the two (call of cthulhu traits).

There's also the "infinite number of skills, but you have a handful of things that describe what you're good at" approach, in which someone might just take the skill "Pirate" and someone else might take the skill "Knows Almost Everyone".

And, of course, there's games that just have a few stats with no skills keying off them, such as Apocalypse World.


Personally, I find that it depends a lot on the type of game I want to play. As a shorthand, though, if there are more than twenty core stats in a game, I'm going to start giving it the side-eye.

[RazorChain]

What are some systems that handle stats really well? Specifically i mean having a simple straightforward system for describing a characters core stats?

It seems like the two main categories are: a few stats with more specific 'skills' that key off them (D&D), or a larger number of things that are blended between the two (call of cthulhu traits).

What systems do you think do the best job describing characters' statistics without too much bloat?


The Call of Cthulhu I played was based upon RuneQuest where most base skills where based upon Stat+Stat in percentage. IIRC then CoC simplified this and gave you a fixed starting percentage in each skill and you got Education times 20 to put in your occupational skills.


I'm reading this and I'm not really getting what you want? What do you mean too much bloat? Are you talking of the system being too verbose? Or trying to bundle too much into 1 stat?

I like the idea of around 6 stats and these would be Strength, Dexterity, Health, Intelligence, Willpower and Perception.

[icefractal]

This comes down to both personal preference and what kind of activities the PCs will be doing in a typical campaign.

If we're talking about my preference and something relatively similar to D&D in scope, then I like somewhere in the range of Pathfinder <-> 4E in terms of skill list size. With extremely large skill lists like GURPS, I find it far too easy to accidentally miss a skill that I should logically have, and/or have to choose between mechanical efficiency and fictional consistency. With skills in larger chunks, that's less of an issue.

[Knaight]

Functional is easy: game after game after game manages to set out a reasonably sized set of attributes (about 3-9 is common) that reasonably cover things. What's a bit rarer is games that do something a little esoteric with their stats and have them work, usually to really get setting flavor across. These include:

Qin, The Warring States: Qin is a low powered wuxia game (low powered by wuxia standards anyways), and in accordance with being a wuxia game it managed to work in the five chinese elements as the attributes, taking advantage of what they symbolically stand for. So there's Fire (Social), Metal (Martial), Water (Physical), Earth (Mystical), and Wood (Mental). The core mapping is reasonably solid, splitting out martial from physical allows for better representation of a lot of wuxia characters, and the feel really works.

Rivers and Lakes: Rivers and Lakes is another wuxia game, and this one uses twelve attributes - however, it doesn't use skills, so the core stats are effectively a mix of the two. Like Qin it manages to get some flavor across, this time by using the twelve animals of the Chinese calendar and what they represent. Every skill also represents a particular style of kung fu, because it's a wuxia game. I don't actually like the system as a whole that much, but the attributes are pretty cool.

Warrior, Rogue, and Mage: WR&M uses the three attributes in its title, then has skills all fall under these three attributes. It's a game that fits the same niche as D&D while much more minimalist, and the use of professions as attributes while still filing skills under them is a solid part of that.

Fudge: Fudge doesn't have a default set of attributes, instead setting up the game such that they can be altered to fit whatever you're currently running. It does have an example attribute list (about 72 examples long), but more than that it also has some interesting ideas about using character specific attributes, and how to run games where the different characters have different attributes. Said ideas could be borrowed.

Other than Qin all of these are free games too, so there's that.