An unusual challenge

[nettle3305]

This is primarily of theoretical interest. I'm looking to build a 20th-level character that has a different class or prestige class at every level, that is, a 20th-level character with 20 different classes.

Under this constraint, what could be some interesting builds? Assume a 25 point-buy (standard).

[A.A.King]

Can I assume the challenge uses Fractional BAB?

[nettle3305]

Can I assume the challenge uses Fractional BAB?

Well, I'm not instituting hard rules, but yes, if your build works better with fractional BAB/saves, feel free to assume it.

[Anthrowhale]

I'm not seeing why this is a challenge as it's easy to just take 20 different base classes.

[Pleh]

This is primarily of theoretical interest. I'm looking to build a 20th-level character that has a different class or prestige class at every level, that is, a 20th-level character with 20 different classes.

Under this constraint, what could be some interesting builds? Assume a 25 point-buy (standard).

Define "interesting builds". Do you mean actually optimized interestingly, just fun concepts irrespective of efficiency, or something else?

[nettle3305]

I'm not seeing why this is a challenge as it's easy to just take 20 different base classes.

It's that easy, if you think that some combination of 20 base classes supports an interesting build.


Define "interesting builds". Do you mean actually optimized interestingly, just fun concepts irrespective of efficiency, or something else?

I mean something functional.

As in, if you were asked to play in a game with this restriction, what builds would you consider? I assume you wouldn't just grab a new base class every level, since none of your class features would advance that way.

This isn't a rigorous challenge, I mean to brainstorm builds worth looking at.

[Pleh]

Sounds like your best bet is to hit the full casters hard and try to quickly qualify for a large number of prestige classes that advance existing spellcasting at least at first level.

Skills would probably be focused on knowledge arcana and spellcraft

[Troacctid]

Most likely you'd just be a full or near-full spellcaster. It takes a little finagling to find 19 mutually compatible prestige classes that all advance your casting at level 1, but it is possible (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1geywITbI4M-Up08SGD-rUHlnobR66aIgKqu7mILkmhU/edit#gid=691970088&fvid=174468695).

[Pleh]

I guess you might be able to pull some initiator shenanigans to pull the same trick with maneuvers instead of spells.

[nettle3305]

Most likely you'd just be a full or near-full spellcaster. It takes a little finagling to find 19 mutually compatible prestige classes that all advance your casting at level 1, but it is possible (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1geywITbI4M-Up08SGD-rUHlnobR66aIgKqu7mILkmhU/edit#gid=691970088&fvid=174468695).

This is a great resource, thanks!


I guess you might be able to pull some initiator shenanigans to pull the same trick with maneuvers instead of spells.

I can't imagine hitting 9th level maneuvers, but they're pretty solid for dips anyhow, so I imagine I could probably make a functional melee character even with lower level maneuvers.

[weckar]

I recall a thread with this same subject popping up a couple of months back... so it's not that unusual.

[Inevitability]

As has been said, a caster with a bunch of prestige class dips is probably your best bet. Walker in the Waste is enterable at level 2 with the right reading of the entry requirements, for example.

[dysprosium]

I love the diptastic builds! Here is one from a few years back:


Sorry it took me so long to reply . . .

Beguiler 1/Conjurer 1/Master Specialist 1/Rogue 1/Ultimate Magus 1/Visionary Seeker 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 1/Geometer 1/Mindbender 1/Unseen Seer 1/Fatespinner 1/Wayfarer Guide 1/Incantrix 1/Arcane Trickster 1/Arcane Devotee 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Divine Oracle 1/Loremaster 1/Elemental Savant 1/Archmage 1

Spell Progression and Caster Level Wizard 17
Spell Progression and Caster Level Beguiler 2

Assuming Human (with no flaws) Feat Progression
1: Spell Focus (conjuration), Versatile Spellcaster
2: Scribe Scroll (B)
3: Enlarge Spell, Skill Focus (spellcraft) (B)
6: Cooperative Spell
9: Mindsight
12: Iron Will
13: Quicken Spell
15: Skill Focus (knowledge [religion])
18: Energy Substitution (to taste), Spell Focus (transmutation)


at Level 20: BAB +0, Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +36

[lylsyly]

Most likely you'd just be a full or near-full spellcaster. It takes a little finagling to find 19 mutually compatible prestige classes that all advance your casting at level 1, but it is possible (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1geywITbI4M-Up08SGD-rUHlnobR66aIgKqu7mILkmhU/edit#gid=691970088&fvid=174468695).

Excellent resource, hat off to ya :smallbiggrin:.

A half elf wizard 1, half elf paragon 1, elf or human paragon 1 nets you Wizard 3 and allows you a larger range of initial PRCs to choose from.

[Vizzerdrix]

Excellent resource, hat off to ya :smallbiggrin:.

A half elf wizard 1, half elf paragon 1, elf or human paragon 1 nets you Wizard 3 and allows you a larger range of initial PRCs to choose from.

I dont think human paragon advances casting at level 1.

[lylsyly]

actually, none of the 1st paragons do, a fact that I totally forgot. I either need coffee or sleep.

[Troacctid]

That's not true, Drow Paragon and Aberrant Paragon advance casting at 1st.

[Vizzerdrix]

That's not true, Drow Paragon and Aberrant Paragon advance casting at 1st.

Aberrant paragon? Where/what is that?

[Thurbane]

Aberrant paragon? Where/what is that?

Dragon #332: Eberron paragon class.

[Afgncaap5]

Hmm... you know, while looking over some non-caster options (or at least not primary spellcaster options) it occurs to me that one might be able to make a fun little "super spy". There's a lot of prestige classes that grant fun little bonuses at level 1 (being able to read any page of text as a standard action, being able to analyze the strengths of any monster seen, a permanent nondetection ability, etc.) that would lend themselves to spy work. Probably not a direction you'd want to go for a typical game, but I can see some very specific styles of play where going with that in mind would be not just fun but surprisingly capable as well. Don't quite have the time to work out a full twenty level spread today (and the fact that there's a weird "4th Level Gap" hiding between a base class and two paragon classes and the first prestige I can find for the theme) but this is something I should look at for my own use in the future.

[Thurbane]

You could build a character with 20 BAB +1 classes and it wouldn't be significantly worse than a straight Fighter. Depending on the classes, it might actually be better.

[Telok]

You could build a character with 20 BAB +1 classes and it wouldn't be significantly worse than a straight Fighter. Depending on the classes, it might actually be better.

Considering swordsage and master of the nine I'd take 16 or 17 BAB happily.

That's an idea, can we cram all the ToB prestige classes in?

[Afgncaap5]

Considering swordsage and master of the nine I'd take 16 or 17 BAB happily.

That's an idea, can we cram all the ToB prestige classes in?

Well, you'd have to manage being both an Elf and a Dwarf at the same time. Is there some feat or prestige class that lets a person qualify as one of those? I thought Ruathar might, but looking it over again suggests I was wrong.

Edit: Also, Master Of Nine and Ruby Knight Vindicator have a notable lack of class features apart from new martial maneuvers or stances. Which, I mean... maneuvers aren't bad, I guess. I just feel like there could be more... especially since Master of Nine is, surprisingly, not a BAB +1 class at level 1.

[Thurbane]

Stoneblessed would let you qualify as a Dwarf, but only if you took all three levels.